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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`HTC CORPORATION and HTC )
`AMERICA, INC., )
` ) Case No.
` Petitioners, ) IPR2016-01501
` )
` vs. ) Patent No.
` ) 8,457,676
`CELLULAR COMMUNICATIONS )
`EQUIPMENT, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_______________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF
` TIM A. WILLIAMS, PH.D.
` San Diego, California
` Tuesday, September 19, 2017
`
` Reported by:
` LISA MOSKOWITZ, CSR 10816, RPR, CRR, CLR,
` NCRA Realtime Systems Administrator
` JOB NO. 130030
`
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`CCE EXHIBIT 2006
`IPR2016-01501
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`HTC CORPORATION and HTC )
`AMERICA, INC., )
` ) Case No.
` Petitioners, ) IPR2016-01501
` )
` vs. ) Patent No.
` ) 8,457,676
`CELLULAR COMMUNICATIONS )
`EQUIPMENT, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_______________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF
` TIM A. WILLIAMS, PH.D.
` San Diego, California
` Tuesday, September 19, 2017
`
` Reported by:
` LISA MOSKOWITZ, CSR 10816, RPR, CRR, CLR,
` NCRA Realtime Systems Administrator
` JOB NO. 130030
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CCE EXHIBIT 2006
`IPR2016-01501
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` September 19, 2017
` 8:13 a.m.
`
` Deposition of TIM A. WILLIAMS,
`PH.D., held at the offices of Pillsbury
`Winthrop Shaw Pittman, LLP, 501 West
`Broadway, Suite 1100, San Diego, California,
`before Lisa Moskowitz, California CSR 10816,
`RPR, CRR, CLR, NCRA Realtime Systems
`Administrator.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` PILLSBURY WINTHROP SHAW PITTMAN
` Attorneys for Petitioners
` 401 Congress Avenue
` Austin, Texas 78701
` BY: BRIAN NASH, ESQ.
`
` BRAGALONE CONROY
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 2200 Ross Avenue
` Dallas, Texas 75201
` BY: TERRY SAAD, ESQ.
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` SAN DIEGO, TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2017
` 8:13 A.M.
`
`Tim A. Williams, Ph.D.,
` called as a witness, having been
` duly sworn, was examined and
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Williams.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. You've been deposed once before in
` this matter already; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Do you understand that you are
` still testifying under oath today?
` A. I understand I'm testifying under
` oath, yes.
` Q. And do you understand why you're
` here today?
` A. Because of a supplementary filing
` that I made.
` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot
` testify today truthfully and accurately?
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` A. No.
` Q. Are you on any drugs or medication
`that would affect your testimony?
` A. No.
` Q. And do you understand that our
`conversation today is being transcribed by
`the court reporter?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I'll just remind you, sir. I know
`you've done this many times before, but I'll
`just remind you to try, as will I, to not
`speak over each other so the court reporter
`can transcribe our conversation accurately.
` Will you agree to that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And also I'll remind you to provide
`verbal answers, refrain from nodding or
`shaking your head to answer my questions.
`Agreed?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. I'm going to do my best to
`ask questions today that are understandable
`and clear, but if I ask you something that
`you don't understand, please feel free to
`ask for my clarification or for me to
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`rephrase, and I will do my best.
` Do you understand that if you do
`answer my question, it is assumed that you
`understood the question?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What did you do to prepare for
`today's deposition?
` A. I reviewed the materials in the
`case, and I had a discussion with Mr. Nash.
` Q. What materials did you review in
`preparation for today's deposition?
` A. The institution decision, the
`patent at issue, Dr. Kesan's declaration and
`his deposition testimony, and my filing as
`well as the patent owner response and
`materials associated with that.
` Q. And when you say "my filing," do
`you mean your supplementary declaration?
` A. Exhibit 1008, yes.
` Q. Is that a complete list of the
`materials that you reviewed in preparation
`for this deposition?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: I can't think of
` anything else at this time.
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Did you review your first
`declaration that you submitted in this
`matter?
` A. Not in preparation for this
`deposition.
` Q. Did you review the Kwak reference?
` A. Yes. I thought I mentioned that
`earlier.
` Q. Did you review your own deposition
`transcript from your first deposition in
`this matter?
` A. Briefly.
` Q. And when you say "briefly," were
`there particular portions that you reviewed?
` A. I just skimmed through it. I
`didn't spend much time on it.
` Q. And you said that you met with
`Mr. Nash; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And when was that meeting?
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone other than
`Mr. Nash?
` A. No. Are you talking about
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`yesterday?
` Q. Yesterday.
` A. No.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone other than
`Mr. Nash in preparation for this deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. I'm going to hand you what has
`previously been marked as petitioner's
`Exhibit 1001.
` (Exhibit Number 1001 was marked
` for identification.)
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 1001 as
`the patent at issue in this matter, the '676
`patent?
` A. I do.
` Q. And to be accurate, that is U.S.
`patent 8,457,676. And if I refer to this as
`the '676 patent, you'll understand that you
`I'm referring to Exhibit 1001?
` A. I will, yes.
` Q. What are the problems in the art
`that the inventors of the '676 patent sought
`to solve?
` A. Those problems are primarily
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`covered in columns 3 and half of column 4 in
`the '676 patent. I can go into those in
`detail if you'd like.
` Q. Yes, can you please provide me your
`version of your understanding of the
`problems that the inventors sought to solve?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: So column 3, line 18,
` "The current invention solves problems
` that occur with uplink power control and
` associated signaling from the terminal
` to the base station (eNode-B) to
` facilitate efficient uplink radio
` resource management decisions at the
` eNode-B."
` Continuing on. Column 3, line 23,
` "Given this uplink power control scheme,
` the eNode-B may be unaware of the
` transmit power level at different
` terminals at which different terminals
` are operating."
` Column 3, line 29. "It, therefore,
` has been discussed in 3GPP that
` terminals should be able to provide
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`power control headroom reports to the
`eNode-B."
` Column 3, line 38. "Unfortunately,
`3GPP has not yet been able to find
`satisfactory criteria for sending a
`power control headroom report from the
`user terminal to the eNode-B."
` Column 3, line 60. Consequently,
`reporting of power headroom or some
`equivalent information is needed.
`However, reporting of power control
`headroom is a trade-off between uplink
`signaling overhead versus performance
`improvements that result from having
`this information readily available to
`the eNode-B."
` Column 3, line 66. "It is
`problematic to have the terminal
`periodically report the power control
`headroom at a frequency higher than the
`adjustments of the actual terminal power
`spectral density."
` Column 4, line 28. "Although the
`present invention is applicable in the
`context of the E-UTRAN (LTE or 3.9G),
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` its principles are not limited to such
` an environment, and instead may also be
` applicable to various other current
` feature wireless telecommunication
` systems and access technologies. This
` invention provides specific reporting
` criteria that are an attractive
` trade-off between signaling overhead
` versus overall link performance for the
` LTE."
` I think that's the overall
` expression of what the inventors believe
` they invented. That last sentence.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
` I'm going to refer you to the first
`line of column 3.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the first sentence there reads,
`"In mobile telecommunications, two basic
`types of power control are open-loop and
`closed-loop." Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have an understanding of the
`concepts of open-loop and closed-loop power
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`control?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How would you describe open-loop
`power control?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Open-loop power
` control is fundamentally estimating the
` path loss for propagation and setting
` appropriate transmit power to compensate
` for such path loss.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. And how would you describe
`closed-loop power control?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Closed-loop power
` control is a process in which there is
` information coming back to, in the case
` of 3GPP systems to the node B for
` decisions about how transmit power
` should be set.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. So I'm not quite sure I
`understood your answer there. Maybe I'll
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` ask a different question. Maybe it will
` shed some light. How does open-loop power
` control differ from closed-loop power
` control?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Open-loop power
` control, again, approximates the path
` loss and sets the transmit power in
` order to compensate for the path loss.
` Closed-loop power control has, again,
` information coming back in the case of
` 3GPP to the node B in order for the node
` B to make decisions about how the
` transmit power should be set.
` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. And so in open-loop power
` control, is the transmit power being sent by
` the terminal?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: What system are we
` talking about? I don't understand the
` question.
`///
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` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Is there a way to generalize it?
` You said that in closed-loop the decision is
` made at the node B or at the base station;
` correct?
` A. In 3G --
` MR. NASH: Objection.
` Mischaracterizes testimony.
` THE WITNESS: In 3GPP systems,
` that's basically correct.
` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. So in 3GPP systems, is there
` a way to characterize where the decision is
` being made on the transmit power and an
` open-loop power control system?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: For whose transmit
` power?
` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. The uplink transmit power.
` MR. NASH: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Can I have the
` question again?
`///
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. In 3GPP systems, is there a way to
`characterize where the decision is being
`made on the transmit power? And I clarified
`that to be uplink transmit power in an
`open-loop power control system.
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, the decision is
` made at both possible locations. The
` decision can be made at both possible
` locations.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you have an understanding as
`whether an WCDMA system use an open-loop or
`closed-loop power control scheme?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which one does it use, or does it
`use both?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Compound.
` THE WITNESS: Outside the scope.
` It uses both.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Can you describe how it uses both?
` A. Yes.
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` Q. Please do.
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: In initial
` acquisition of the transactions between
` the UE and the node B and WCDMA,
` open-loop power control is used. Also
` when acquiring a new system open-loop
` power control is used. Also when there
` is a high bidder rate in the control
` channel, open-loop power control is
` used. Other than that, closed-loop
` power control is used.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you have an understanding as to
`whether LTE uses an open-loop or a
`closed-loop power control scheme?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is your understanding?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: LTE uses both.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. And can you describe how it uses
`both an open-loop and closed-loop power
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`control scheme in LTE?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: The same environments
` I just discussed for WCDMA.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. I'm going to refer you now to
`column 3, line 15 of the '676 patent. And
`at that line, there's a sentence that
`states, "The current trend in the art is
`that uplink power control will include, one,
`an open-loop power control mechanism at the
`terminal as well as, two, options for the
`eNode-B to send closed-loop power control
`correction commands to the terminal."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have an understanding as to
`whether the uplink power control scheme
`described in that sentence is consistent
`with the uplink power control scheme used in
`LTE?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand
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` the question.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. The sentence that I read
`from the patent describes a current trend in
`the art as to power control schemes and that
`it uses both an open-loop power control
`mechanism at the terminal and also has
`options for the eNode-B to send closed-loop
`power control corrections; correct? Do you
`understand that?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Beyond the
` scope.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, you're just
` paraphrasing the sentence.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. My question is is what is described
`in that first sentence consistent with the
`way the power control is performed in an LTE
`system?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague,
` beyond the scope.
` THE WITNESS: Certainly there is
` the ability for the eNode-B to send
` closed-loop power control commands to
` the terminal, and certainly there is
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` open-loop power control mechanism that's
` performed either by the eNode-B or by
` the terminal in LTE.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. If I said that the sentence at
`column 3, line 15 of the patent describes
`the power control that is performed in an
`LTE system, is there any reason you would
`disagree with that statement?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague,
` beyond the scope.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. And what would your disagreement
`be?
` A. It's not comprehensive.
` Q. What do you mean by that?
` A. Open-loop power control can be
`established by the eNode-B for the terminal
`in LTE.
` Q. And how are those decisions made as
`to whether the open-loop -- okay. Let me
`back up for a second.
` Are you saying that the decision on
`the transmit power of the UE can be made
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`either at the terminal or at the base
`station in an LTE system?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: In open-loop power
` control mechanism, at times in the
` process, the transmit power of the UE
` can be set autonomously by the UE and
` can be also be directed by the eNode-B
` at different times is what I'm saying.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. And then the next sentence,
`which is one of the ones that you read
`previously, states, "The current invention
`solves problems that occur with uplink power
`control and associated signaling from the
`terminal to the base station (eNode-B) to
`facilitate efficient uplink radio resource
`management decisions at the eNode-B."
` Do you agree that the reference to
`an eNode-B in that sentence is specific to
`LTE?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: ENode-B is a
` nomenclature adopted for LTE, but if you
` look beyond just the word, the problems
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` described in '676 are the same problems
` addressed by Kwak in his invention, that
` is, fast transactions for packet-based
` communications, low latency
` communications as well as efficient
` signaling. So that the state of the
` industry when Kwak was written was that
` LTE was just being researched and
` developed. So the nomenclature of LTE
` which we now know today wouldn't have
` been possible to include in Kwak.
` But if you look at the problem that
` Kwak is trying to solve, it's the same
` problem as the '676 is trying to solve,
` that is, fast packet-based
` communications.
` So while this may say eNode-B, this
` problem is -- was recognized and was an
` issue even at the time of the writing of
` the Kwak document.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you agree that there is a
`different nomenclature used in a WCDMA
`system for the base station than there is in
`an LTE system?
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` A. Yes. LTE adopted a different
`nomenclature, and that occurred in time
`after the -- between when the Kwak reference
`was written and when the '676 was written.
` Q. And that nomenclature is eNode-B;
`correct?
` A. For the node B, yes. It's an
`enhanced node B is what the E means. So it
`has node B functionality as would be
`understood by someone who understands WCDMA,
`but it has an enhanced capability. And,
`again, that nomenclature was adopted between
`the time of the writing of Kwak and the
`writing of the '676.
` Q. At the time of writing of the '676
`patent, both the terms "eNode-B" and "node
`B" were known in the art; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In that sentence, the inventors
`chose to use the term "eNode-B"? Correct?
` A. Yes, but they also said over in
`column 4 that the principles are not limited
`to the E-UTRAN or the LTE environment. It
`may also be applicable at various other
`current, i.e., WCDMA and future wireless
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`telecommunication systems and access
`technologies.
` If you look beyond the words, what
`is the problem that both references are
`trying to solve? They're both trying to
`solve the same problem in the same
`environment, that is, fast packet-based
`digital communications.
` Q. And does that mean that you're
`looking beyond the words of the patent when
`determining what the inventors are trying to
`solve --
` A. No.
` Q. -- in the '676 patent?
` A. No, I'm looking specifically at the
`words of the '676, especially to column 4
`where they say, "this invention is
`applicable to other environments," i.e.,
`WCDMA.
` Q. It doesn't say, "i.e., WCDMA," does
`it?
` A. No, I'm adding the i.e., WCDMA.
` Q. Okay.
` A. But WCDMA was a current technology,
`a current wireless telecommunication system
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`which is the words of column 4, line 31.
` And, again, if you're trying to
`solve fast, packet-based communications and
`do it with the trade-off of understanding
`the power situation in the UE versus
`overhead and the signaling channel, both
`references are addressing that particular
`problem, which is described in the '676.
` Q. Okay. I'll now direct you to
`column 3, line 38, which I believe is
`another sentence that you read earlier. It
`states, "Unfortunately, 3GPP has not yet
`been able to find satisfactory criteria for
`sending power control headroom report from
`the user terminal to the eNode-B."
` And that's one of the sentences
`that you identified earlier as part of the
`statement of the inventors as to the problem
`that was being solved; correct?
` A. Yes. But don't confuse 3GPP, which
`is the committee, with 3G WCDMA systems.
`They're just saying that the committee
`hasn't been able to find the satisfactory
`criteria for sending power control headroom
`reports from the user terminal to the
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`eNode-B because of this trade-off that's
`discussed in column 3, lines 60 to 65.
` Q. Do you agree that at the time of
`the writing of the '676 patent, that this
`statement refers to 3GPP's efforts in
`developing the LTE standards?
` A. Well, WCDMA was still being
`developed at that point in time, and 3G --
`and LTE was being developed by the 3GPP
`committee. So I'm not sure -- I mean, their
`reference to the eNode-B here, which is a
`nomenclature of LTE, would tell me that
`they're specifically talking about LTE
`development. But, again, WCDMA development
`was still going on at that time.
` Q. Background provided here by the
`inventors of the '676 patent and the
`statements of the problem that they sought
`to solve that you read earlier, do you have
`an understanding whether the inventors were
`seeking to solve problems in an LTE system?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: The inventors from
` column 4, line 28 to 39, are telling the
` reader that they're solving problems in
`
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` multiple wireless communication systems
` and access technologies.
` BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. It says that the invention is
` applicable to either systems; correct?
` A. Yes. That's the word they use.
` Q. But the language that they use
` refers to eNode-B and LTE in their
` statements of the problems that they're
` seeking to solve; correct?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: I think I answered
` that last question wrong. It says,
` "Although the present invention is
` applicable to the context of the
` E-UTRAN, which is LTE or version 3.9G,
` its principles are not limited to such
` an environment." So they're telling the
` reader that any time you have the
` situation of fast-packet transfers from
` the UE, and you're trying to find a
` solution to this dichotomy that's listed
` in column 3, line 60 to 65, that this
` invention would apply.
`///
`
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Showing you what's been previously
`marked as Exhibit 1008 in this proceeding.
` (Exhibit Number 1008 was marked
` for identification.)
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you recognize this Exhibit 1008
`as the declaration or supplementary
`declaration that you submitted in this
`matter?
` A. I do.
` Q. If you turn to the last page, do
`you recognize that as your signature?
` A. I do.
` Q. Did you draft this declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In its entirety?
` A. I don't recall. But I either
`drafted or edited every sentence in this
`declaration, and it accurately reflects my
`opinion.
` Q. What information did you consider
`in forming the opinions that are found in
`this declaration?
` A. That's listed in paragraphs 11 and
`
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`12 of this document.
` Q. And is that a complete listing of
`the documents and materials that you
`considered in forming your opinions?
` A. As I recall, yes.
` Q. Does this -- or let me start over.
` Do the opinions provided in this
`supplementary declaration change or
`supersede any of the opinions provided in
`your first declaration in this proceeding?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall any
` changes to opinions expressed in my
` first declaration.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Did you review your first
`declaration in preparing your supplementary
`declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And was it part of your review to
`make sure that your opinions were consistent
`with your first declaration?
` A. Consistent or clarifying, yes.
` Q. So you're not aware of any changes
`to the opinions that you provided in your
`
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` first declaration that are reflected in
` Exhibit 1008?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Okay. I'm going to direct you to
` paragraph 16 of your declaration,
` Exhibit 1008. And then the last sentence of
` paragraph 16 you state that, "That's why I
` understand and appreciate the differences in
` power control implementation between 3G and
` LTE. Those differences are not relevant
` here and would not dissuade one of skill in
` the art from looking at Kwak to solve these
` problems."
` What are the differences that you
` refer to there?
` A. The differences are primarily in
` the PHY layer between 3G and LTE, and in the
` '676, and in Kwak, we're dealing with the
` MAC layer; so the differences are really
` outside of the scope of what's being claimed
` here.
` PHY is P-H-Y.
` MR. NASH: MAC is M-A-C.
` THE WITNESS: All caps.
`///
`
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Do you understand that a WCDMA
`system is a CDMA system that relies on CDMA?
` A. WCDMA is derived from CDMA
`technologies, yes.
` Q. And do you understand that LTE is
`not derived from CDMA technologies?
` A. That's correct. But you're talking
`about the PHY layer. You're not talking
`about the MAC layer which is not something
`that these -- that this patent and this
`reference are discussing.
` Q. Do the differences between LTE and
`WCDMA in the PHY layer have any effect on
`the power control that is performed in those
`systems?
` A. Not that would be affected by the
`invention of the 676 or disclosure of Kwak.
` MR. SAAD: Objection.
` Nonresponsive. Move to strike.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. I'm going to ask my question again
`because I wasn't asking about as it pertains
`to the patent. My question was more
`general.
`
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` Do the differences between LTE and
`CDMA in the PHY layer have any effect on the
`power control scheme that is used in those
`systems?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Lacks
` foundation.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand
` what you mean by power control scheme.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. We've been talking about
`power control scheme throughout this
`conversation today.
` A. We've been talking about a portion
`of the power control scheme. There is much
`more involved in the power control scheme
`than what we're discussing -- we've been
`discussing today.
` Q. Okay. And my question is more
`general. Do you understand what a power
`control scheme is?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: Not as you're using
` the term.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. What don't you understand about it?
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` A. I don't understand the scope of
`your question.
` Q. Do you understand that WCDMA
`involves a technique for power control?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand
` the question.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. So all of a sudden you don't
`understand what power control is. Is that
`what's happening here?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Form.
` THE WITNESS: No. I don't
` understand the scope of your question.
` We've been discussing a portion of the
` power control scheme, and you seem to be
` asking questions about a much broader
` scope.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay.
` A. And so I don't want anyone to be
`confused that the aspects of power control
`that we've been discussing are
`comprehensive.
` Q. All right. Let's go back to your
`
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`testimony in paragraph 16. You say that you
`understand and appreciate the differences in
`power control implementation between 3G and
`LTE. Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you've testified today that the
`differences that you believe are -- that
`you're referring to are in the PHY layer;
`correct?
` A. No, you're misrepresenting my
`testimony. The question you asked me was
`about the PHY layer. There are also
`differences in the control layers, higher
`layers.
` Q. I asked you which --
` A. Layers three and above.
` Q. I asked you which differences you
`were referring to in that sentence, and you
`directed me to differences in the PHY layer.
` A. I believe I said primarily in the
`PHY layer.
` Q. Okay.
` A. There are also differences in
`higher layers.
` Q. All right. Now, my question is in
`
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`regards to the PHY layer. When you say that
`you understand and appreciate the
`differences in power control implementation
`between 3G and LTE, do you also understand
`the differences between power control
`implementation between WCDMA and LTE?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And so my question to you is
`do the differences between an LTE system and
`a CDMA-based system in the PHY layer have
`any effect on the power control
`implementation in those systems?
` MR. NASH: Objection. Vague.
` Beyond the scope.
` THE WITNESS: Yes. But not as
` described in the level that we're
` talking about in the '676 and Kwak
` references.
` MR. SAAD: Okay. Objection.
` Nonresponsive. Move to strike
` everything after "yes."
` MR. NASH: Objection. It's been
` asked and answered multiple times. It's
` beyond the scope.
` The purpose of
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