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`Page 1
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _______________________
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` _______________________
`
` APPLE, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` v.
` CELLULAR COMMUNICATIONS EQUIPMENT, LLC,
` Patent Owner.
` _______________________
` Case IPR2016-01493
` Patent 8,457,676 B2
` _______________________
`
`****************************************************
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, Ph.D.
` MAY 12, 2017
`****************************************************
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`CCE_EXHIBIT 2006
`
`
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 2
` DEPOSITION of ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, Ph.D.,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the Patent
`Owner, and duly sworn, was taken in the above-styled
`and numbered cause on the 12th day of May, 2017,
`from 9:21 a.m. to 4:08 p.m., before Christy R.
`Sievert, CSR, RPR, in and for the State of Texas,
`reported by machine shorthand, at the offices of
`Haynes and Boone, LLP, 2505 North Plano Road, Suite
`4000 Richardson, Texas 75082 pursuant to the Federal
`Rules of Civil Procedure and the provisions stated
`on the record or attached hereto.
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`FOR THE PETITIONER:
` MR. JAMIE H. McDOLE
` MR. CLINT WILKINS, Ph.D.
` MR. SCOTT T. JARRATT
` Haynes and Boone, LLP
` 2505 North Plano Road, Suite 4000
` Richardson, Texas 75082
` Phone: 214-651-5121
` E-mail: jamie.mcdole@haynesandboone.com
` clint.wilkins@haynesandboone.com
` scott.jarratt@haynesandboone.com
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
` MR. TERRY A. SAAD
` Bragalone Conroy, PC
` 2200 Ross Avenue, Suite 4500 W
` Dallas, Texas 75201
` Phone: 214-785-6685
` E-mail: tsaad@bcpc-law.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` BRIAN PRIMAVERA, Videographer
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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` I N D E X
` PAGE
`
`Appearances................................... 3
`
`Exhibits...................................... 5
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`Proceedings................................... 6
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, Ph.D.:
`
` Examination by Mr. Saad..................... 6
`
`Signature and Changes................... 166-167
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`Reporter's Certification................ 168-169
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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` E X H I B I T S
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
`(Previously marked)
`
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent 8,457,676 B2 49
`
`Exhibit 1003 U.S. Patent Application 111
` Publication US 2004/0223455 A1
`Exhibit 1004 Source: Ericsson, Filtering 162
` For UE Power Headroom Measurement
`
`Exhibit 1006 Declaration of Zygmunt J. 20
` Haas, Ph.D.
`Paper 7 93
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 6
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the
`record at 9:21. Today is May 12, 2017. This is the
`videotaped deposition of Dr. Zygmunt Haas. This is
`the beginning of Tape 1, Volume 1.
` Will counsel please state their
`appearances and any agreements for the record.
` MR. McDOLE: Jamie McDole from Haynes
`and Boone for the witness and Apple.
` MR. WILKINS: Clint Wilkins for Haynes
`and Boone, for the witness and Apple.
` MR. JARRATT: Scott Jarratt on behalf
`of Apple.
` MR. SAAD: Terry Saad from Bragalone
`Conroy on behalf of the patent owner, Cellular
`Communications Equipment, LLC.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would the court
`reporter please swear in the witness.
` ZYGMUNT J. HAAS, Ph.D.
` having been first duly sworn,
` testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning, sir.
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 7
` Q. Can you please state your full name for the
`record?
` A. Sure. My last name is Haas, H-a-a-s. My
`first name is Zygmunt, Z-y-g-m-u-n-t.
` Q. Do you understand why you're here today?
` A. Yes, I do, sir.
` Q. What is that understanding?
` A. My understanding is that you want to ask me
`questions with respect to my declarations that I
`filed in this IPR matter.
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes, I have been deposed before, sir.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Off the top of my head, without
`guaranteeing the number, I would say about 15 times.
`Maybe a little bit less, maybe a little bit. Again,
`it depends how we count this. Sometimes I'm deposed
`more than once in a particular case. So about 15
`times, I would say, on the -- without guaranteeing
`the -- guaranteeing the number.
` Q. Do you understand that you're testifying
`under oath today and under penalty of perjury?
` A. Yes, I do, sir.
` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot testify
`truthfully and accurately today?
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 8
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` A. There's no reason, sir.
` Q. Are you on any drugs or medications that
`may affect your testimony?
` A. Not that may affect my testimony, sir.
` Q. And do you understand that our conversation
`today is being transcribed by the court reporter?
` A. Yes, I do, sir.
` Q. Okay. Will you agree to do your best not
`to talk over me while I'm asking my question, and
`I'll do the same, try and not talk over you while
`you're providing your answer?
` A. Fair enough, sir.
` Q. Also, I'll just remind you to try and do
`your best to provide verbal answers and avoid
`shaking your head or nodding or gesturing to provide
`an answer so that the court reporter can transcribe
`our conversation.
` A. I understand, sir.
` Q. I'll be asking you a number of questions
`today, and I'll do my best to make sure that those
`questions are -- are clear and understandable. But
`if I ask you something that you don't understand,
`I'll ask that you request me to clarify or rephrase
`the question, and I'll do my best to do so. Do you
`agree to that?
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 9
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` A. Absolutely, sir.
` Q. And do you understand that if you do answer
`my question, that it is assumed that you understood
`my question?
` A. Yes, sir.
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. When were you retained by Apple for this
`matter?
` A. So my recollection is that it was sometime
`in 2016. I don't know the exact date, but sometime
`in 2016 is my recollection, sir.
` Q. What do you understand was the reason for
`your retention in this matter?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection.
` Dr. Haas, you're not to disclose any
`communications you may have had with counsel. So to
`the extent that your answer would require you to
`disclose conversations you may have had with
`counsel, I instruct you not to answer. Otherwise,
`you can answer the question.
` THE WITNESS: I understand.
` A. My understanding is, as I pointed out in my
`declaration, sir, this is on page 7, Paragraph 16,
`"I have been asked to provide my opinions with
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 10
`regard" -- "regarding whether Claims 1, 3, 19 and 21
`of the '676 Patent are anticipated or would have
`been obvious to a person of ordinary skill in the
`art at the time of the alleged invention in light of
`the prior art."
` So that's my understanding of why I've
`been retained.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. And you're referring to a paper in front of
`you there. What -- you've brought some papers to
`the deposition. What are those?
` A. Well, it's only one thing that I brought
`here, and this is a copy of my declaration which was
`filed in this case. That's my copy, sir.
` Q. Are there any --
` A. There's no --
` Q. I'm sorry, go ahead.
` A. There's no markings except for what was. . .
` Q. Are there any other papers besides your
`deposition that you've brought -- sorry -- your
`declaration?
` A. That I brought here today?
` Q. Yes.
` A. No, just this declaration in the binder.
` Q. Prior to this matter, have you ever done
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 11
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`any other consulting for Apple?
` A. Yes. Prior to this matter, of this
`particular IPR, I have done other consulting work
`for Apple.
` Q. Approximately, how many other matters have
`you consulted for Apple on?
` A. So -- so there was another patent that I
`have been asked to work on, I -- I was retained for.
`In fact, another two patents that I recall right now
`in the recent history. There might have been some
`other things that I have done before for -- on
`behalf of Apple, but in the recent history, there
`was three patents, to my recollection, that I was --
`I was asked to provide my opinions with respect to
`those patents. And I believe that there are three
`separate IPRs. That's my understanding, sir.
` Q. Okay. And was CCE -- do you -- do you
`understand who CCE is, that they are the patent
`owner in this case?
` A. Yes. My understanding, sir, is that CCE is
`the patent owner of the '676 Patent, sir.
` Q. And do you have an understanding as to
`whether CCE was the patent owner on those other two
`patents that you're referring to?
` A. That -- that's my understanding, sir.
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 12
` Q. Are you aware of the ongoing litigation
`regarding the '676 Patent between CCE and Apple?
` A. So I know that there is some litigation
`going on in this matter, of this patent, but I am
`not -- I don't know the details of this litigation,
`sir.
` Q. Are you aware of any of the products that
`are accused of infringement in this case?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Have you performed any analysis regarding
`any of the accused products in comparison to the
`claims of the '676 Patent?
` A. Not in comparison -- not -- not in relation
`to the '676 Patent, sir.
` Q. How many hours have you worked on this
`matter?
` A. You mean -- when you say "this matter," you
`mean the '676 Patent?
` Q. I mean the -- the IPR that is -- that
`you're currently here testifying on today that --
`regarding the '676 Patent.
` A. So I really could not give you a number.
`I -- the way that I work is if I work anytime during
`a particular month, I will submit an invoice to the
`counsel. And in this invoice, I, of course, outline
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 13
`specific tasks I have done and the number of hours
`for a task and the total number of hours. But I
`have no recollection right now what would be the sum
`of those invoices, which I understand this is what
`you are asking me about. I just don't have
`recollection right now, sir.
` Q. Do you have any sort of --
` A. And I'm sorry, I apologize for interrupting
`you.
` I want to -- I want to clarify that when I
`say I submitted invoices at the end of the month, I
`mean it's typically at the end of the month. It can
`be at the beginning of the following month, to be
`precise. But about the end of the month.
` Q. Do you have any approximation of how many
`hours that you have spent working on this matter?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
` A. I really cannot give you a number, sir.
`And this is not because I don't want; I just don't
`remember.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Did you do anything to prepare for the
`deposition today?
` A. Yes, I did, sir.
` Q. What did you do?
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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` A. So I met with counsel on two occasions.
`When I mean two occasions, I mean two -- two days.
`For a number of hours in each day. I also reviewed
`again the prior art that I relied on in respect to
`my work on this matter. This prior art is outlined
`in paragraphs -- in Paragraph 5 of my declaration.
`And I also read again my declaration. Actually,
`more than once.
` Q. When did you meet with counsel?
` A. So I met with counsel on Tuesday this week,
`sir, and on -- on Thursday, which was yesterday,
`again.
` Q. Okay. On Tuesday, how long did you meet
`for?
` A. So I can give you an estimate. Again, I
`don't want to, you know, be -- hold to a specific
`number of minutes, but it was about two and a half
`hours, about.
` Q. And who was present at that meeting?
` A. Who was present at the meeting were the
`Haynes and Boone attorneys.
` Q. Anyone else?
` A. No, except me and the attorneys for Haynes
`and Boone.
` Q. During that meeting, did you review any
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 15
`documents that are not of record in this matter?
` A. I am not sure I understand your question,
`sir.
` Q. Other than exhibits that were filed in this
`matter and papers that may have been filed in this
`matter, did you review any other documents?
` A. I want to make sure that I'm not violating
`any privileges of what was discussed in this
`meeting.
` MR. McDOLE: Well, you should not
`disclose any communications that you had with
`counsel.
` A. So to answer your question, I would have to
`disclose communications with counsel at this
`meeting.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. I'm just --
` MR. McDOLE: You can answer the
`question "yes" or "no."
` A. I -- I want to be accurate. So I apologize
`for -- can you repeat your question? I want to make
`sure that I understand the question correctly.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Sure. Other than documents that are either
`exhibits in this matter or have been filed in this
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 16
`matter, did you review any other documents during
`your meeting on Tuesday?
` MR. McDOLE: I'm going to object to
`form.
` You can answer that "yes" or "no" given my
`previous caution relating to attorney-client
`privilege.
` A. To the best of my recollection, again, I am
`saying -- I want to emphasize, to the best of my
`recollection, on Tuesday, I did not -- on Tuesday,
`the answer is -- is no. Again, I emphasize to the
`best of my recollection.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. On Thursday, how long did you meet
`with counsel for?
` A. So it was about seven hours. Again, about
`seven hours. So I don't want you to hold me to
`minutes, but it was about seven hours.
` Q. And who was present at that meeting?
` A. Again, at this meeting, the present -- the
`present were myself and the attorneys for Haynes and
`Boone.
` Q. Okay. Was anybody else present in that
`meeting or did anybody else stop by that meeting
`that was not an attorney for Haynes and Boone?
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` A. Well, there was a person who delivered food,
`stopped at the meeting. That's all that I recall,
`sir. I don't recall anyone else.
` Q. Okay. Did you review documents during your
`meeting on Thursday?
` A. We reviewed documents during the meeting on
`Thursday, sir.
` Q. Okay. And did you review any documents
`during that meeting on Thursday that were not either
`exhibits or papers filed in this matter?
` MR. McDOLE: Again, you can answer
`that question "yes" or "no."
` A. I'm -- I'm having a problem answering this
`question "yes" or "no" because I don't know what was
`and was not filed.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. What documents did you review during
`that meeting?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; calls for
`privileged information.
` Dr. Haas, I instruct you not to answer the
`question.
` A. Based on counsel's instruction, I cannot
`answer it.
`BY MR. SAAD:
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 18
` Q. Did you review any documents during that
`meeting that refreshed your recollection -- your
`recollection as to any issues that you were
`preparing to testify for today?
` A. I'm sorry, I apologize, can you repeat this
`again?
` Q. Did you review any documents during your
`meeting on Thursday that refreshed your recollection
`as to any issues that you're preparing for
`testifying today?
` A. That refreshed my recollection?
` MR. McDOLE: I'm going to object to
`form.
` A. What does that mean, refreshed my
`recollection? Is that --
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. It means possibly you reviewed a document
`that you had know- -- certain knowledge of prior to
`reviewing that document, and when you reviewed the
`document, it refreshed your memory as to that
`knowledge.
` MR. McDOLE: I'm going to object to
`form.
` A. I am not sure, sir. I'm just not sure how
`to answer this question.
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Other than counsel for Apple, did you speak
`with anyone else in preparation for this deposition?
` A. About the subject matter, sir, of the
`deposition?
` Q. About anything that was in preparation for
`this deposition.
` A. I did not speak with anyone else except for
`the counsel about any matter of this deposition,
`sir.
` Q. Have you ever heard of a man by the name of
`James Proctor?
` A. James Proctor? It does not light any light
`in my mind right now. I'm not saying I did not. I
`just don't have any reason to believe I did right
`now.
` Q. You didn't speak to Mr. Proctor in
`preparation for this deposition?
` A. Mr. Proctor? I -- again, I don't know who
`Mr. Proctor is. Can you -- if you want to tell me
`who Mr. Proctor is, maybe I will be able to jog my
`memory and tell you a more precise answer. But I --
` Q. Sure.
` A. -- I just don't know who Mr. Proctor is.
` Q. Mr. Proctor has provided certain opinions
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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`Page 20
`in the litigation between CCE and Apple regarding
`the '676 Patent. Have you ever been -- had any
`exposure to those opinions provided by Mr. Proctor?
` A. Not to my recollection, sir.
` (Exhibit No. 1006 identified.)
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. I am going to hand you what has been marked
`in this matter as Exhibit 1006. Do you recognize
`that document?
` A. Yes, sir. This is the -- a copy of my
`declaration, and it appears that this document is
`what -- I have a copy of this I brought today -- a
`copy of which I brought today to this declaration --
`to this deposition, sir.
` Q. Okay. I realize you have another copy in
`front of you, but I just want to make sure that
`we're looking at the same document. So you can feel
`free to refer to whichever one that -- that you're
`more comfortable with. I'll represent to you that
`that is the one that was filed in this matter.
` A. With your permission, sir, I would prefer
`to use my copy. It has color -- it's a color copy.
`It's a little bit easier for me -- for me, sir.
` Q. That's fine. If you'll turn to the last
`page of your declaration.
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` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Page 65.
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. And, actually, if you'll look at this
`document for that. Thank you. Is that your
`signature there on --
` A. This is my electronic signature, sir.
` Q. Okay. Did you draft this declaration?
` A. This -- all the opinions in this -- in this
`declaration are my opinions, sir.
` Q. Did you draft it, though?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
` A. The typing of this declaration, sir, was
`done, in part, by the counsel, but all the opinions
`and all the declarations have -- was typed based on
`my instructions.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. When did you prepare this declaration?
` A. So since it was signed on July 26, 2016 --
`the work was done, of course, before July 26, 2016.
`I would -- if I remember correctly, it was done in
`several weeks before July 26, 2016, sir.
` Q. And did you work with someone else on this
`declaration?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
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` A. Well, when you say "worked," I discussed my
`opinions with the counsel, and after discussion of
`my opinion with counsel, the counsel was instructed
`to type those opinions in the declaration. I
`reviewed the draft, revised whatever I thought needs
`to be revised. There might have been more than one
`iteration of such revision. At the end of which,
`when I was happy with the way that the declaration
`is, I signed my name on it.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Are there any portions of this declaration
`that were provided to you that you did not edit?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What portions were they?
` A. The portions regarding legal standards,
`sir, which starts on page 7 in Paragraph 16 and goes
`through page 9, Paragraph 21, were provided me by
`the counsel, and to the best of my recollection, I
`did not edit those. Maybe except for some typos or
`things like this, the essence of the -- of the
`content of those paragraphs, which are legal
`standard, were provided to me by counsel, sir.
` Q. Are there any other portions of the
`declaration that fall under that same category?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
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` A. I'm not sure what you mean by falls in the
`same category, but the legal standard is only
`included in Section 4 of my declaration, which are
`Paragraphs 16 to 21. All the other portions are my
`opinions that were edited, and anything that I
`thought was incorrect or was -- needs to be changed
`or was inaccurate, went through revisions based on
`my instructions, sir.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Are there any other portions of the
`declaration that were provided to you that you did
`not provide any edits for other than the legal
`principles?
` A. So, again, I'm not sure what you mean by
`this. That were provided to me, not -- and I didn't
`edit those? Is this what you mean?
` Q. Yes.
` A. I edit everything in the declaration, sir.
`Even if I found the typo in the legal standard, I
`would complain that it should be corrected, and --
`again, I'm not saying that there was typos in the
`legal standard. I'm just saying that if there would
`have been a typo in the legal standard, I would
`complain and ask to change it. So I edited
`everything in the declaration.
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`ZYGMUNT J. HAAS
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` But I'm saying that the legal standard,
`since I am not an attorney, the legal standard --
`standard was provided to me by counsel. But
`everything in this declaration has been read, edited
`by me and made changes according to what my opinions
`are and what my understanding is, or was.
` Q. Did you conduct any searches for prior art
`to the '676 Patent?
` A. Some limited search, yes. Some limited
`search, yes.
` Q. Where did you search?
` A. I searched various databases, various --
`using the internet.
` Q. What databases?
` A. I searched IEEE databases, for example.
` Q. Any others?
` A. I searched some of the 3GPP documents.
` Q. Okay. Any other databases that you
`searched?
` A. Not that I recall right now as I sit here.
`I might have, but I just don't recall.
` Q. What did you search for in those databases?
` A. I searched for some terms.
` Q. Which terms?
` A. So, for example, one of the terms that I
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`was looking for -- and this is discussed in my
`declaration, starting on Paragraph 30, which is the
`claim constructions. I, for example, searched for
`the term "power control headroom report."
` Q. And did you identify any prior art based on
`that search?
` A. I identified a document, which is not
`necessarily prior art, but I identified a document
`which provide -- provided further -- further support
`for my opinions, sir.
` Q. Is that document referenced in your
`declaration?
` A. Yes, it is. It is indeed, sir.
` Q. Which document is that?
` A. So if we look on page 18 of my declaration,
`sir, Paragraph 43, there's a document which is
`referred to as the 3GPP LTE document dated
`August 2007, which I describe -- or I quote from in
`my declaration, sir.
` Q. Okay. Did you form an opinion as to
`whether that document is prior art to the '676
`Patent?
` A. I do not rely on this document as prior
`art, sir, in my -- in forming my opinions, sir. I
`do -- I do, however, as I sit here, state that this
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`document provides additional supporting evidence
`to -- to the effect that power headroom and power
`control headroom have been interchangeably used.
` Q. Okay. Other than that 3GPP document that
`you referenced on page 18 of your declaration, did
`you identify any other documents through your search
`for power control headroom report?
` A. Sir, I might have identified some other
`documents, but I have no recollection right now what
`they were. We need to remember that this is close
`to a year ago, you know, and when you search, you
`come across a lot of things, and I cannot right now
`recall every single document that I came across,
`sir.
` Q. Are there any other documents referenced in
`your declaration that were the result of that
`search?
` A. Not that I can think of right now.
` Q. Are there any other documents -- strike
`that.
` Other than the search for power control
`headroom report, did you perform searches using
`other search terms?
` A. Other search terms? I might have, sir. I
`don't recall right now specifically.
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` Q. You don't remember any other search terms
`that you used in your searches?
` A. I might have. Again, I don't remember
`right now specifically particular terms -- which
`particular terms I searched for, sir.
` Q. Your opinions provided in your declaration
`rely on three references: The Fong reference, the
`Ericsson reference, and the Bark reference. Do you
`agree with that?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
` A. No, sir. My opinions in my declaration
`relies on all the documents that which are listed in
`Paragraph 5 of my declaration and in conjunction
`with Paragraph 6.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. But your opinions regarding
`obviousness are based on those three references,
`correct?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
` A. I can only repeat my previous answer. My
`opinions regarding obviousness rely on all the
`documents which are listed in Paragraphs 5 and 6 of
`my declaration.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. Let's look at those documents on
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`Paragraph 5.
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. The first one, it's the '676 Patent?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Have you -- obviously, you haven't provided
`any opinions that the '676 Patent is obvious in view
`of itself, correct?
` MR. McDOLE: Object to form.
` A. I analyzed the '676 Patent, more precise,
`analyzed the claims -- the selected claims of the
`'676 Patent for obviousness.
`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. Yeah, we'll -- we'll come back to
`this.
` Let's talk about Fong, Bark and the
`Ericsson documents. Do you understand what I'm
`talking about when I refer to those?
` A. Yes, sir, I do.
` Q. Okay. Did you identify any of those
`documents through your searches?
` MR. McDOLE: Objection; form.
` A. I'm a little bit -- not 100 percent clear
`on your question. Let me answer it a different way,
`and hopefully it will answer your question as well.
`Those documents were provided to me by counsel.
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`BY MR. SAAD:
` Q. Okay. Looking again at the listing of
`documents in Paragraph 5 --
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. -- is that a complete listing of all
`documents that you have relied on to form your
`opinions?
` A. As I state here in Paragraph 5, "In
`preparation of this declaration, I have studied,"
`and there's a list of 14 documents. Then in page --
`on Paragraph 6 -- in Paragraph 6, I state that, "In
`forming the opinions expressed below," meaning in
`this declaration, "I have considered the documents
`listed above," as well as my knowledge and
`experience based on my work in this field, the field
`of wireless communication, as I describe below.
` Q. Okay. And so is that a complete listing of
`documents that you've relied on to form your
`opinions?
` A. What's listed -- listed in Paragraph 5 and
`6 together, yes, sir.
` Q. Did you make any assumptions in order to
`arrive at the opinions found in your declaration?
` MR. McDOLE: I'm going to object to
`form.
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` A. When you say "assumptions," sir, that's a
`very big word, of course. I -- as I state here in
`my declaration, for example, in paragraph -- I'm
`sorry -- in part 3 of my declaration, I made -- you
`call it "assumption." I am not sure whether that's
`the right word, but I defined this -- let's -- let's
`put it a different way.
` I explained what my understanding is of a
`level of ordinary skill in the art with respect to
`the '676 Patent. I don't know if you would call it
`assumption or not. That's a matter of what -- how
`we define "assumption," sir. But I cl