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` SAYFE KIAEI
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC., ) Case No:
` ) IPR2016-01466
` Petitioner, )
` ) Patent No:
`v. ) 8,611,404
` )
`TQ DELTA, LLC, ) Case No:
` ) IPR2016-01760
` Patent Owner. ) Patent No:
`_______________________________) 9,094,268
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` SAYFE KIAEI, Ph.D., M.S., B.S.E.E.
` September 25, 2017
` 8:39 a.m.
` Phoenix, Arizona
`
` JOB NO. 130888
` Prepared by:
` Marcella Daughtry, RPR
` Arizona CR No. 50623
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`TQ Delta Exhibit 2017
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`Cisco Systems, Inc. v. TQ Delta, LLC
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`IPR2016-01466
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC., ) Case No:
` ) IPR2016-01466
` Petitioner, )
` ) Patent No:
`v. ) 8,611,404
` )
`TQ DELTA, LLC, ) Case No:
` ) IPR2016-01760
` Patent Owner. ) Patent No:
`_______________________________) 9,094,268
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` SAYFE KIAEI, Ph.D., M.S., B.S.E.E.
` September 25, 2017
` 8:39 a.m.
` Phoenix, Arizona
`
` JOB NO. 130888
` Prepared by:
` Marcella Daughtry, RPR
` Arizona CR No. 50623
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SAYFE KIAEI, PH.D.,
`M.S., B.S.E.E., was taken on September 25, 2017 at the
`offices of Snell & Wilmer, 400 East Van Buren Street,
`Suite 1900, Phoenix, Arizona, commencing at the hour of
`8:39 a.m. before Marcella Daughtry, a Registered
`Professional Reporter and Arizona Certified Reporter,
`in and for the State of Arizona.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`APPEARANCES:
`
`For the Petitioner:
` Haynes and Boone
` MR. JOHN RUSSELL EMERSON
` 2323 Victory Avenue
` Dallas, Texas 75219
`
` MR. MICHAEL PARSONS
` 2505 North Plano Road
` Richardson, Texas 75082
`
`For TQ Delta, LLC:
` McAndrews, Held & Malloy
` MR. RAJ CHIPLUNKAR
` MR. THOMAS WIMBISCUS
` 500 West Madison Street
` Chicago, Illinois 60661
`
`Also Present:
` Michael Pham, videographer
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` I N D E X
`WITNESS PAGE
`SAYFE KIAEI, Ph.D., M.S., B.S.E.E.
` Examination by Mr. Chiplunkar 6
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`Page 4
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` INDEX TO EXHIBITS
`No. Description Page
`Exhibit No. 2014 Memorandum Opinion and Order 26
`Exhibit No. 2015 Memorandum Opinion and Order 27
` Wi-LAN, Inc. vs. Acer, Inc.
`
`Exhibit No. 2016 Modern Digital and Analog 55
` Communication Systems by B.P.
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` EXHIBITS PREVIOUSLY MARKED AND REFERENCED
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` 1004
` 1005
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` 1012
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. This is the
`start of media No. 1 in the continuing deposition of
`Dr. Sayfe Kiaei in the matter of Cisco Systems,
`Incorporated, et al., versus TQ Delta, LLC, in the
`United States Patent and Trademark office for the
`Patent Trial and Appeal Board, Case No. IPR2016-01466,
`Patent No. 8,611,404, and Case No. IPR2016-01760,
`Patent No. 9,094,268.
` This deposition is being held at 400 East
`Van Buren Street, Suite 1900, Phoenix, Arizona 85004,
`on Monday, September 25th, 2017, at approximately
`8:39 a.m.
` My name is Michael Pham. I am the legal video
`specialist from TSG Reporting, Incorporated,
`headquartered at 747 Third Avenue, New York. Our court
`reporter is Marcie Daughtry in association with TSG
`Reporting.
` Counsel, will you please introduce yourselves.
` MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Raj Chiplunkar for TQ Delta,
`patent owner.
` MR. EMERSON: Russ Emerson, Haynes and Boone
`for Cisco.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` SAYFE KIAEI, Ph.D., M.S., B.S.E.E.,
`called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`sworn by the shorthand reporter to speak the truth and
`nothing but the truth, was examined and testified as
`follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR:
` Q Good morning.
` A Good morning, Counsel.
` Q Can you please state your full name and
`residential address for the record.
` A Yes, counsel. Sayfe Kiaei. Professor at
`Arizona State University, address 7131 East Rancho
`Vista Drive, No. 4002, Scottsdale, Arizona 85251.
` Q So, Dr. Kiaei, we met in the past, and you
`kind of know the drill, so answer audibly yes or no.
`If it's a yes or no, just say yes or no instead of
`nodding your head. We will take a break maybe every
`hour or so. I've been informed by the videographer
`that he needs to change the media every two hours or
`so. So I guess there's an enforced break at the
`two-hour mark.
` If for any reason you need to take a break
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`other than the one-hour point, just let me know after
`you've answered the pending question, and we can -- we
`can break. Is that okay with you?
` A Thank you, Counsel. Pleasure to see you again
`as well.
` Yes, it is. Thank you.
` Q So, Dr. Kiaei, is there anything that could
`impair your ability to testify truthfully and
`completely today?
` A No.
` Q So, by my count, this is the fourth time that
`you're being deposed in connection with an IPR
`proceeding initiated by petitioner Cisco, give or take,
`I guess?
` A Fourth time? I -- I believe so, yes. At
`least third or fourth, yeah.
` Q So, for the record, you were petitioner's
`expert in IPR2016-1006 through IPR2016-1009. Those
`were the diag mode IPRs. That's what we were calling
`them. But that's not why you're here today.
` Today we're here in connection with
`IPR2016-01466 and IPR2016-01760, and your deposition
`transcript from today will be used in these two IPRs.
` For the record, I made a photo of the
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`IPR2016-01466 as the 1466 IPR, and IPR2016-01760 as the
`1760 IPR.
` A Thank you, Counsel.
` Q So, for the record, IPR2016-01466 is an inter
`partes review of U.S. Patent No. 8,611,404, and
`IPR2016-01760 is an inter partes review of U.S. Patent
`9,094,268. I will refer to U.S. Patent No. 8,611,404
`as "the '404 patent," and the '404 patent has been
`marked previously as Exhibit 1001 that I'm handing to
`you.
` A Thank you, Counsel.
` Q And IPR 1760 was the -- is the inter partes
`review of U.S. Patent 9,094,268 or "the '268 patent."
`That has been previously marked as 1001. And I'm
`handing you that as well.
` A Thank you.
` Q And you previously submitted declarations in
`the 1466 and the 1760 IPRs, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And you may recall that your contention is
`that the combination of Bowie, Yamano and the ANSI
`T1.413 standard renders claims of the '404 patent
`obvious that would be claim 610, 11, 15, 16 and 20.
` A Can I get a copy of my supplemental
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`declaration, please?
` Q Yeah.
` A I brought a copy, but --
` Q Okay.
` A -- but if you like me to give you your own
`exhibit and copy, I will happy to look at.
` Q Yeah, I will hand that to you.
` Before we get there, let me get you -- what
`I'm handing you is Bowie. That's Exhibit 1005
`previously marked.
` And Yamano, that's Exhibit 1006 previously
`marked.
` Your CV that was previously marked 1004.
` Let me grab your declaration. And this is a
`copy of your second declaration, Exhibit 1012, and this
`was the same declaration that was submitted in both IPR
`1466 and IPR 1760. Is that correct?
` A Yes, Counsel. Thank you.
` Q With respect to your CV, are there any updates
`to your CV in terms of new cases, new employer?
` A No new employer.
` I probably have published at least a couple of
`papers that's been accepted.
` Besides that, no, I think everything is the
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`same.
` Q Any corrections?
` A I'm sure there's a lot of typos and a few
`mistakes and dates and so on.
` Q Okay.
` A It's not a -- so there may have been some
`errors in there, but not -- not that I can point to.
` Q So if you could direct your attention to
`paragraph 9 of your declaration, that would be Exhibit
`1012. And column 4 of Bowie at line 67.
` Are you there, Dr. Kiaei?
` A Yes, I am.
` Q Okay. So the bottom of column 4, line 67 of
`Bowie, you see that phrase "electronic characteristics
`of the particular wire"?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q Okay. And, in your opinion, is attenuation a
`function of the electronic characteristics of the wire?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: I have discussed this also in
`detail in the last deposition we had and in my first
`declaration as well. And as I am discussing it in the
`paragraph 9 as well, parameters such as the attenuation
`are the parameters associated with the -- the line
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`parameter associated with the communication channel
`between the -- the two transceivers.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Between the two?
` THE WITNESS: Transceivers.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Transceivers?
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Can you read back my
`question, please?
` (The requested portion of the record was read
`by the court reporter.)
` THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
` Attenuation is one of the parameters which are
`associated and are the function of the electronic
`characteristics of the -- the line in DSL.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So attenuation is one of
`the parameters that is a function of the electronic
`characteristics of the wire?
` A The -- the characteristics of the wire and the
`loop is one of the -- one of the characteristics of the
`loop is one of the -- the electronic characteristics of
`it is one of the elements that would change the
`attenuation of the line, but that's not the only
`characteristics that will change attenuation of the
`line.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` Q I understand that. Thank you for that
`clarification.
` So just so that we're clear, attenuation is
`one of the parameters that is a function of the
`electronic characteristics of the loop?
` A I should actually say it the other way around.
` Electronic characteristics of the wire will
`change the attenuation of the line.
` Q Okay. So attenuation is a function of the
`electronic characteristics of the line?
` A Sure it is, yes.
` Q Okay. So an attenuation value would represent
`the electronic characteristics of the particular line?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Not necessarily. I would say
`probably other way around.
` Attenuation is one of the elements that will
`change the characteristics, the loop characteristics.
`So electronic -- Let me stop for a second.
` The electronic characteristics of the line is
`one of the -- one of the elements that will change the
`attenuation of the DSL line.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Can you give me an example
`of an electronic characteristic of a line?
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: This is a very general question.
`What specific content are we talking about?
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: An elec- -- an electronic
`characteristic of the line, do -- do you know what that
`phrase means, "electronic characteristic of the line"?
` A It is a very general question. What line are
`we talking about? What electronic characteristics are
`we talking about?
` Q The phone line.
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Are you talking specifically any
`specific type of a phone line for any communications?
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: A phone line. A phone
`line that is used to communicate that is used with a
`DSL modem, for example. Do you understand what the
`term electronic characteristics of that phone line
`means?
` A Yes, I do. And I believe we had a very
`lengthy discussion about this issue as well in the last
`deposition I had, that the electronic characteristics
`of the line will change the attenuation of the -- the
`twisted pair phone line --
` THE COURT REPORTER: Twisted?
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` THE WITNESS: -- pair phone in the DSL
`transceiver, used in the DSL transceiver.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Is resistance an example
`of an electronic characteristic of the line?
` A Yes, it is.
` Q So for a given resistance value of that phone
`line, you may have a particular attenuation value?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Are we talking in general or
`hypothetical case?
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Yeah, hypothetically as in
`in the real world.
` A Yes. If the line resistance changes, the
`attenuation of the line will change, along with many
`other things that will impact it as well.
` Q Sure. And you've testified to this in the
`past, but just so that it's in context and based in
`part on this attenuation value of the line, the modem
`determines the signal-to-noise ratio, for example?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form. Scope.
` THE WITNESS: And, as you said, I have
`discussed this in the past quite in detail, and I think
`if you like to give me my past declaration. I did not
`bring it up in here and discussed it. In here I'm
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`discussing the fact that the signal-to-noise ratio is a
`function of the characteristics of the line such as a
`noise level, line attenuation and so forth. That's
`what I have as well discussed it in my current
`supplemental declaration.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: And that's what I was
`asking you. So you agree, then, the -- based on the
`attenuation value of the line, the modem determines the
`signal-to-noise ratio?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Again, this is a -- this is
`something that we've discussed already, but one of the
`parameters -- and I've said that already, one of the
`parameters that determines the attenuation -- one of
`the parameters that determines the signal-to-noise
`ratio is the attenuation of the line.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So not to quibble here, so
`based in part, and I will give you the in part, because
`there are other factors, like you say, based in part on
`the attenuation value of the line, the modem determines
`the signal-to-noise ratio?
` A That is correct. In general, yes.
` Q Thank you.
` And from the signal-to-noise ratio, the modem
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`derives what we in the art call bits and gain
`parameters?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: And I'm merely -- sorry.
`I'm merely stating what's in your declaration at
`paragraph 9 there.
` A Yes. I -- if you give me a second.
` Q Yeah, yeah. Take your time.
` A What I have said in my declaration, as well,
`is that the parameters associated with the full-power
`mode not only include parameters used for transmission
`and reception of data, which is bits and gains and
`equalizer, but also includes parameters from which the
`transmission reception parameters they drive, such as
`attenuation, signal-to-noise ratio and so forth.
` The signal-to-noise ratio is one of the
`parameters associated with this, and that is derived
`partly from the attenuation of the line.
` So one of the parameters the signal-to-noise
`ratio uses is the attenuation. Correct.
` Q Yes. And from -- my question was, and the
`modem from the signal-to-noise ratio then derives --
`Strike that.
` And so the modem in part using the
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`signal-to-noise ratio then determines the bit
`allocation and the fine gain?
` A That is correct. From the signal-to-noise
`ratio and other parameters, it determines the bits and
`gains and so forth.
` Q Okay. Thank you.
` A You're welcome, Counsel.
` Q And I'm -- I'm merely stating what I think is
`your position. And your position is that when Bowie
`says store loop characteristics in its low-power mode,
`it means store the bits and gains disclosed in the ADSL
`standard?
` A Could you point to me where in Bowie discusses
`that? Are you talking about the same paragraph?
` Q So if you -- one point if you look at column 5
`of Bowie at line 20, and I quote, "Likewise, upon
`sending the shut-down signal, the CPE unit 242 may also
`optionally store the loop characteristics that it
`obtained through CPE to COT handshaking."
` MR. EMERSON: Wait for the question.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So going back to my
`question, and your position is that when Bowie says
`store -- store loop characteristics in its low-power
`mode, it means also store the bits and gains disclosed
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`in the ADSL standard?
` A I've had a very detailed discussion of this in
`my first declaration when I analyzed Bowie and what
`Bowie said.
` In this supplementary declaration, I'm
`focusing on what the parameters are associated with the
`full-power mode operations.
` If you have a copy of my first declaration in
`my deposition, I could look into that and go through
`the details of that.
` Q So, sitting here today, you cannot -- strike
`that.
` Does Bowie use the phrase "bit allocation
`parameter"?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: In the paragraph you just
`brought up, no. You want me to read Bowie in its
`entirety and see if it discusses bit allocation? Yes,
`I can look into that. Yes, I can look into that; not
`yes to your answer.
` But I do recall that also in my
`March deposition I had here --
` And, again, if you have a copy of that
`deposition, I could point that to you.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` In there I discuss that what Bowie is
`discussing here in terms of the characteristics in line
`20 to 25 or so of column 5 are the characteristics
`obtained during the handshaking, which includes
`signal-to-noise ratio, attenuations, bits and gains,
`and so forth. And this is also...
` I want to wait for you to finish conversation
`before I can answer you.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Yeah, go ahead.
` A This is also in continuation of column 4, line
`65 onward, and column 5, which discusses various things
`which happened during exchange of information, and
`those are parameters associated with the full mode
`operation, which include signal-to-noise ratio,
`attenuation and so forth.
` We spent quite a lot of time in the last
`deposition I believe in March going through all these
`again, and my position is the same as what I said in
`that deposition, as well as my first declaration.
` I'm not going through details of that and
`analyzing Bowie in here, and my objective of this was I
`primarily focused on my declaration here. But I will
`be happy to answer that and look at the patent, as well
`as look at my previous declaration and my deposition,
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`because I want to make sure that I'm saying it
`correcting and also you want to make sure I'm saying it
`correcting.
` But from my recollection, which is correct,
`the parameters associated are what I mentioned, which
`is attenuation, signal-to-noise ratio and so forth,
`including bits and gain.
` Q Okay. Thank you.
` A Thank you, Counsel.
` Q So turning to page 3 of your CV, let me know
`when you're there.
` A I'm there, Counsel.
` Q You've -- you've referenced your CV and your
`declaration at -- at paragraph 1. So this was the CV
`that I'm looking at. And that's the CV I handed you
`today?
` A That's correct, Counsel.
` Q Paragraph -- page 3 of your declaration -- of
`your CV, sorry, you note that you've served as an
`expert witness in other IP cases?
` A Yes.
` Q And on page 4 of your CV, one of the cases you
`reference is the Wi-LAN, Inc. versus Wesrell
`Technologies?
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` MR. EMERSON: Objection. Form. Scope.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And that -- that was -- that case dealt with
`the DSL modem?
` MR. EMERSON: Objection. Form. Scope.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, it did. But I don't
`remember the details of it.
` Yeah, go ahead.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Okay.
` A I do want to say that in that case, I had not
`made -- from what I remember, I don't remember the
`details, I may have met them a couple of times, and
`they did not use me as an expert in that case. From
`what I remember, I don't remember all the details of
`it.
` Q So you weren't an expert in that case?
` A I did some consulting for them, but they did
`not use me as an expert in the case, no.
` Q Okay.
` A So, I don't -- I don't have any declarations.
`I don't have any depositions. I did not do any work.
`I went and visited them a couple of times, some
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`questions they had, and that was it.
` So this -- this was more of a -- this doesn't
`have a lot of details in it. This is more of in-house,
`couple times consulting with them as a technical
`consultant.
` Q So you were a consulting expert there then?
` A I don't say even expert. I don't believe that
`there was any exchange of confidential information. I
`don't remember the details of it. So... I don't
`remember anything about that case, to be frank with
`you. So...
` Q Okay. Is that -- is that the only extent of
`your involvement in the case involving patents
`applicable to DSL, other than the TQ Delta cases?
` MR. EMERSON: Objection to form and scope.
` THE WITNESS: Sitting here at this one, I
`don't remember. I have done many other consultings in
`here. I -- I don't remember that.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: What was the type of
`consulting you did in the Wesrell case?
` MR. EMERSON: The same objections.
` THE WITNESS: What is the Wesrell case? Oh,
`you're talking about the same case?
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Yes.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` A I don't remember. That was 2007. That was
`ten years ago. I remember meeting him a couple of
`times talking about what they were doing and that was
`it.
` Q And what were they doing?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't remember the details of
`it, Counsel. I'm sorry.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Was the Bowie patent
`asserted in that case?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form. Scope.
` THE WITNESS: I was not involved to look at
`any patents that was involved in that case besides what
`they were trying to hire me for and see what's going
`on. So I don't even remember. There was an exchange
`of consulting fees for me. So I don't remember much
`about that case. I'll be...
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So it's your position that
`you don't recall what patents were asserted in the
`Wi-LAN case?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: No, I do not. And I do not
`remember even looking -- I did not look at any
`confidential information, any of the prior arts, any of
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`the things they had in there. They -- they interviewed
`me. They talked to me a couple of times and that was
`it.
` I should actually delete that from a
`consulting cases because that's not a -- that was not
`the case I was a expert witness, as a -- as a detailed
`expert witness going through it.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Okay. So you didn't know
`that the Bowie patent was asserted in the Wi-LAN case?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form. Beyond
`scope. Asked and answered.
` THE WITNESS: I do not remember that, and
`definitely I do not remember seeing Bowie's patent
`anywhere in there or I looked at any of their patents
`besides the patents they gave me to look at for the
`interview for the position.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: What patents did they give
`you to look at?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: I have no idea. I don't
`remember, Counsel.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So you may not remember if
`they gave you Bowie?
` MR. EMERSON: The same objection. Beyond the
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`scope. Asked and answered.
` THE WITNESS: I believe I have answered your
`question. I'm truthfully answering you that they
`interviewed me for the position, and I don't remember
`anything about that case. I was not involved in that
`case by any means.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So -- so you were
`merely -- so now you're saying you were merely
`interviewed for that case?
` A I don't remember.
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: But it is -- but it is in
`your CV?
` A As I said at the beginning, there may have
`been errors in there and this is one of the errors. I
`put it as an expert witness in there. I don't remember
`all the details, Counsel. I was not involved in that
`case by any means and forms. They interviewed me, and
`I don't know what happened after that. I don't recall
`it.
` Q So you don't recall it or you're taking
`contradictory positions here. You are telling me you
`don't recall what happened there, and then you say you
`did nothing there.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` MR. EMERSON: Wait for a question which will
`be objectionable.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So what is it?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: I have already answered it,
`Counsel. They interviewed me for a position. There
`was another discussion. There was no information and
`patent information or any other information,
`confidential information, given to me, and I don't
`remember the details of it.
` I definitely do not remember having Bowie in
`any of the things that I've seen before from that case.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: I'm handing you a District
`Court claim construction order from the Wi-LAN cases.
` MR. CHIPLUNKAR: If you can mark this.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Oh, sure. 2014.
` MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Yes.
` (Deposition Exhibit No. 2014 was marked for
`identification.)
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: For the record, that's
`being marked Exhibit 2014, and that's the slip opinion.
` MR. CHIPLUNKAR: And if you could mark this as
`Exhibit 2015. This is the Westlaw version of the
`opinion.
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` (Deposition Exhibit No. 2015 was marked for
`identification.)
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: So you don't recall
`rendering any opinions relating to claim construction,
`infringement, invalidity or anything related to the
`Bowie patent? That's your position, right?
` MR. EMERSON: Object to the form. Beyond the
`scope.
` THE WITNESS: I haven't looked at this. I
`don't remember any of those details of that case and I
`was not involved in it. So I don't recall anything.
`This is all new to me. Is there anything specific you
`want to point in these two documents?
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: I'm asking you a question.
` The question was: Did you render any opinions
`relating to claim construction, infringement,
`invalidity or anything related to the Bowie patent in
`connection with the -- the Wi-LAN case?
` MR. EMERSON: Objection. Form. Scope. Asked
`and answered.
` THE WITNESS: I don't remember anything about
`that case. I was not involved in that case.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: It's on your CV, so I
`don't think you can walk away by saying you were not --
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` SAYFE KIAEI
`you were not involved in that case. So, again, I want
`to repeat my question.
` Did you render any opinions related to claim
`construction, infringement, invalidity or anything
`related to the Bowie patent in the Wi-LAN case?
` MR. EMERSON: Objection. Form. Beyond the
`scope. Asked and answered now multiple times.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: I'm not sure, Dr. Kiaei.
`I'm waiting for an answer. Are you going to answer the
`question or --
` MR. EMERSON: I think he's already answered it
`a couple of times.
` THE WITNESS: You've handed me two documents.
`I'm trying to see. I've never seen these before. And
`I have already answered you. I have not -- I don't
`recall seeing Bowie's in there. I don't -- I had -- I
`don't remember this case at all. I only met them a
`couple of times as an interview, and then they had some
`questions from me. And I did not render any opinions
`on any of the patents or anything related to that
`litigation, if it was a litigation, I presume.
` So I recall meeting him once or something. I
`remember once or twice. So, no. The answer is no.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Who is "he," you say?
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` SAYFE KIAEI
` A They -- I believe -- I don't remember the
`details of it. All I remember is that sometimes around
`the time frame, I was interviewed for the position
`with -- I think it was McKool Smith.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Who Smith?
` THE WITNESS: McKool. M-c Kool.
` That's the extent of what I did. I did form
`any opinions or did any work for them by any means.
` Q BY MR. CHIPLUNKAR: Okay. If you can look at
`the first page of Exhibit 2014.
` A Here?
`
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