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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -------
` Patent No. 7,420,822
` Inter Partes Review No. IPR2016-01388
` --------------------------------x
` GEP Power Products, Inc.,
` Petitioner,
` vs.
` Arctic Cat, Incorporated,
` Patent Owner.
` --------------------------------x
`
` DEPOSITION OF
` RALPH V. WILHELM, JR., PH.D.
` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
` MAY 24, 2017
` 9:00 a.m.
`
`Reported By:
`Rebecca L. Klanderud
`Job No. 50526
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -------
` Patent No. 7,420,822
` Inter Partes Review No. IPR2016-01388
` --------------------------------x
` GEP Power Products, Inc.,
` Petitioner,
` vs.
` Arctic Cat, Incorporated,
` Patent Owner.
` --------------------------------x
`
` DEPOSITION OF
` RALPH V. WILHELM, JR., PH.D.
` MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA
` MAY 24, 2017
` 9:00 a.m.
`
`Reported By:
`Rebecca L. Klanderud
`Job No. 50526
`
`
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` done in order to get the signals in and out of
` that block. Svette on its own doesn't help me
` do that.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. At the time of Svette, which is
` around 1994, was it a conventional configuration
` to have multiple wires extending below a
` distribution module such as disclosed in Svette?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form,
` foundation, scope.
` THE WITNESS: Hypothetically, if --
` if I was using or saw a block that had
` conductors in it, I would expect naturally if
` somebody went to the work of designing the
` block, putting components in it, that there
` would have to be wires coming out of the block
` somehow.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. Was it also known within the field of
` this technology to tape wires together in a
` configuration or when they're extending below as
` we were just talking about with respect to
` Svette?
` MR. JACKSON: Again, objection to
` form, foundation, scope.
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` THE WITNESS: I -- in the roughly
` 1994 time frame of this patent, this Svette
` patent, lots of things were known, including
` cable ties, including cable harnesses of various
` sorts, including wiring harnesses of various
` sorts, so it's -- there's lots of different
` options that could be used.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. For example, looking back again to
` Matsuoka, if you look at column three around
` line 48 or 49, it mentions bundling wires with
` bundling tape.
` Do you see that?
` A. I will in a minute, yes.
` Where in column three, please?
` Q. It's around 48 or 49.
` A. Thank you. Yes.
` Q. So I understand your testimony, you
` agree that using bundling tape to form a wire
` harness bundle as discussed in Matsuoka, that
` was a known convention prior to the '188 and the
` '822 patents?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: On its own, the wiring
` harness in this case, in Matsuoka '548, column
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` skill in the art understand that it's a good
` thing to organize wires in an orderly fashion?
` A. Generally, yes, they would.
` Q. And would a person having ordinary
` skill in the art have understood that using a
` wire harness can help prevent fraying and can
` help organize the wires prior to the '188 and
` the '822 patents?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection to form,
` foundation, scope.
` THE WITNESS: I think irrespective of
` the timeline of the '188 or the '822 patents,
` you're talking about very fundamental
` engineering principles in terms of bundling
` wires, preventing fraying, lengthening life- --
` lifespan of the wires, reducing the likelihood
` of frayed wires. Those are all good things to
` do.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. And a person having ordinary skill in
` the art would have understood that before the
` filing of the application for the '188 patent,
` correct?
` A. In general, they would, yes.
` Q. If you look at paragraph 38, which is
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` that you'd want to --
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. Sure.
` A. -- protect it from the environment --
` Q. Sure.
` A. -- from damage, like anything else.
` Q. And those considerations would have
` existed prior to the '188 and the '822 patents;
` is that correct?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form,
` foundation, scope.
` THE WITNESS: The conditions with
` regard to environment and protecting them, yes.
` They've existed for eons, yeah, long time.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. Would someone having ordinary skill
` in the art understand that it would be desirable
` to make the cover waterproof if you were going
` to follow the teaching of Svette and put a cover
` on the distribution module disclosed in Svette?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form,
` foundation and scope.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know if
` I've opined on that, but let me do some reading
` here for a minute.
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` and again and the -- the focus of these patents
` are on personal recreational vehicles, whether
` they be ATVs or snowmobiles or the like.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. I agree that the specification
` discusses recreational vehicles, but I'd like to
` focus on Claim 1 and the preamble of Claim 1 and
` whether you agree that the preamble of Claim 1
` reflects an intended use of a power distribution
` module?
` MR. JACKSON: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes. I believe the
` intent as expressed in the preamble is that the
` power distribution module is intended to be used
` in personal recreational vehicles.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. And would that statement you just
` provided also apply to the preamble of Claim 11
` in the '188 patent?
` A. Yes, same answer.
` Q. I'm looking at Claim 1.
` When you look at everything that
` appears after the colon, in your report, you do
` not allege that what's described after the colon
` of Claim 1 is a structurally incomplete power
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` distribution module; is that correct?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form,
` foundation.
` THE WITNESS: Structurally incomplete
` (witness whispering).
` Could you ask that in another way,
` please?
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. Sure. In your report, with respect
` to all of the claims at issue, you provide no
` analysis of whether the distribution modules
` claimed in the claims are structurally complete
` or structurally incomplete; is that correct?
` MR. JACKSON: Same objections.
` THE WITNESS: What does "structurally
` complete" mean?
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. Well, I get to ask the questions, so
` what do you think structurally complete means?
` MR. JACKSON: Object to form,
` foundation, leading.
` THE WITNESS: Could you read back,
` please?
` * * *
` (Whereupon, the reporter read back
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
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` the requested portion of the record.)
` * * *
` THE WITNESS: As I understand
` structurally complete, it is something that
` would stand my definition as a -- as a POSITA
` would be something that would stand on its own
` and serve the function that this patent is
` addressed to and the claims are addressed to,
` and I don't believe that it would be
` structurally complete given that a number of the
` limitations that are listed below the first
` claim are -- are necessary in order to be
` structurally complete.
` BY MR. GRIGGS:
` Q. I'm trying to understand your -- your
` answer.
` Well, let me ask this again: In your
` report, you do not offer an opinion as to
` whether any of the claims are structurally
` complete or incomplete, correct?
` MR. JACKSON: Objection, form.
` THE WITNESS: That any of the claims
` are structurally complete (witness whispering).
` No. I don't believe I've addressed
` that specifically.
`
`DAVID FELDMAN WORLDWIDE, INC.
`450 Seventh Avenue - Ste 500, New York, NY 10123 1.800.642.1099
`
`
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