GODMAR BACK
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` __________________________________________________________
`
` APPLE, INC.,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` -vs- Case IPR2016-01365
`
` Patent 7,181,608B2
`
` REALTIME DATA LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` __________________________________________________________
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` APPLE, INC.,
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` Petitioners,
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` -vs- Case IPR2016-01366
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` Patent 8,090,936B2
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` REALTIME DATA LLC,
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` Patent Owner.
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` __________________________________________________________
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` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DR. GODMAR BACK
`
` 11:18 a.m. to 2:28 p.m.
`
` June 20, 2017
`
` Blacksburg, Virginia
`
` Job No. 2634898
`
` REPORTED BY: Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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`Page 1
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`1
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`Apple v. Realtime
`Proceeding No. IPR2016-01365
`APPLE 1017
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` __________________________________________________________
`
` APPLE, INC.,
`
` Petitioners,
`
` -vs- Case IPR2016-01365
`
` Patent 7,181,608B2
`
` REALTIME DATA LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`
` __________________________________________________________
`
` APPLE, INC.,
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` Petitioners,
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` REALTIME DATA LLC,
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` Patent Owner.
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` __________________________________________________________
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` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DR. GODMAR BACK
`
` 11:18 a.m. to 2:28 p.m.
`
` June 20, 2017
`
` Blacksburg, Virginia
`
` Job No. 2634898
`
` REPORTED BY: Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
`
`Page 1
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`1
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`Apple v. Realtime
`Proceeding No. IPR2016-01365
`APPLE 1017
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`
`
`GODMAR BACK
`
` Deposition of DR. GODMAR BACK, taken and
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`transcribed on behalf of the Petitioners, by and
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`before Rhonda D. Tuck, RPR, CRR, Notary Public in
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`and for the Commonwealth of Virginia at large,
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`pursuant to United States Patent and Trademark
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`Office Rules, and by Notice to Take Depositions;
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`commencing at 11:18 a.m., June 20, 2017, at Hilton
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`Garden Inn, 900 Plantation Road, Blacksburg,
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`Virginia.
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` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
`
` WINSTON & STRAWN, LLP
`
` 275 Middlefield Road, Suite 205
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` Menlo Park, California 94025
`
` (650) 858-6500
`
` kvidal@winston.com
`
` BY: KATHI VIDAL, ESQUIRE
`
` Counsel for the Petitioner
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` A P P E A R A N C E S O F C O U N S E L C O N T ' D :
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`GODMAR BACK
`
` F I S H & R I C H A R D S O N P . C .
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` 1 4 2 5 K S t r e e t , N W , 1 1 t h F l o o r
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` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 5
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` ( 2 0 2 ) 6 2 6 - 7 7 3 5
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` p a t r i c k @ f r . c o m
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` B Y : A N D R E W P A T R I C K , E S Q U I R E
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` C o u n s e l f o r t h e P e t i t i o n e r
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` F I S C H S I G L E R L L P
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` 5 3 0 1 W i s c o n s i n A v e n u e N W
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` F o u r t h F l o o r
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` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 1 5
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` ( 2 0 2 ) 3 6 2 - 3 5 0 0
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` j o s e p h . e d e l l @ f i s c h l l p . c o m
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` r i c h a r d . z h a n g @ f i s c h l l p . c o m
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` B Y : J O S E P H E D E L L , E S Q U I R E
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` R I C H A R D Z H A N G , E S Q U I R E
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` C o u n s e l f o r t h e P a t e n t O w n e r
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` A L S O P R E S E N T :
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` I N D E X
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`GODMAR BACK
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` WITNESS: DR. GODMAR BACK
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` Examination by Ms. Vidal...............................5
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` Examination by Mr. Edell..............................64
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` Examination by Ms. Vidal..............................75
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` E X H I B I T S
`
` Back Exhibit Number 1....................................6
` U.S. Patent 7,181,608
` Back Exhibit Number 2....................................6
` Document titled "Expert Declaration Of Dr. Godmar Back"
`
` Back Exhibit Number 3....................................6
` Document titled "Expert Declaration Of Dr. Godmar Back
` In Support Of The Patent Owner's Response"
`
` Back Exhibit Number 4....................................6
` U.S. Patent 8,090,936
`
` * * * * *
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` (11:18 a.m., June 20, 2017)
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`GODMAR BACK
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` (Back Exhibit Numbers 1, 2, 3 and 4 were
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` premarked for identification.)
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` DR. GODMAR BACK
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` was sworn and testified as follows:
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` E X A M I N A T I O N
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
`
` Q. Good morning Mr. -- is it Dr. Back?
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` A. Dr. Back, yes. That's how I'm commonly
`
` referred to.
`
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
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` A. I have not.
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` Q. I'm going to ask you a series of
`
` questions, and I'm going to need an auditory
`
` response, like a yes or no or some other answer.
`
` Do you understand that?
`
` A. I do understand that.
`
` Q. Is there anything today that would
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` prevent you from testifying truthfully and honestly?
`
` A. There's nothing that would prevent me
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` from testifying truthfully and honestly.
`
` Q. If you don't understand a question that I
`
` ask, I would just ask that you seek clarification,
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` and I'm happy to explain what I mean.
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`GODMAR BACK
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` Do you understand that?
`
` A. I do understand that, and I most
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` definitely will.
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you four exhibits that
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` we've premarked. Exhibit 1 is a patent, U.S. Patent
`
` 7,181,608. Exhibit 2 is a document entitled "Expert
`
` Declaration Of Dr. Godmar" -- is that correct?
`
` A. Godmar.
`
` Q. -- "Godmar Back"?
`
` A. Most Americans would pronounce it
`
` Dr. Back, so I think it's okay to stick with that.
`
` Q. "In Support Of The Patent Owner's
`
` Response." And this has been previously marked as
`
` Exhibit 2003.
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` Exhibit 3 is entitled "Expert Declaration
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` Of Dr. Godmar Back In Support Of The Patent Owner's
`
` Response." This has previously been marked as
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` Exhibit 2003, as well.
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` And Exhibit 4 is U.S. Patent 8,090,936.
`
` Can you turn to Exhibit 2, please? What
`
` is Exhibit 2?
`
` A. Exhibit 2 is my declaration in support of
`
` the patent owner's response.
`
` Q. And is this for IPR2016-01365 on U.S.
`
` Patent 7,181,608?
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`GODMAR BACK
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` A. I believe so. I believe that is what it
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` says here. Yeah.
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` Q. Did you review this declaration in
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` preparation for your deposition today?
`
` A. I did not review this declaration. I
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` wrote it. It's my declaration. I reviewed the
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` patents, but I didn't review the declaration.
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` Q. Is everything you stated in your
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` declaration still accurate as of today?
`
` A. I believe so.
`
` Q. I'd like you to turn to Exhibit 3,
`
` please. Is this the declaration you submitted in
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` support of the patent owner's response in case
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` IPR2016-01366 on Patent 8,090,936?
`
` A. I believe it is. Yeah.
`
` Q. And do you believe all the statements you
`
` made in this declaration are still truthful?
`
` A. I believe so, yeah.
`
` Q. Turning to Exhibit 2, in Paragraph 5 of
`
` your declaration, you state that in forming your
`
` opinions you reviewed the '608 Patent.
`
` Did you fully review the '608 Patent
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` prior to signing your declaration?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form. This is
`
` Joe Edell, Fisch Sigler, on behalf of the patent
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`GODMAR BACK
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` owner, Realtime Data, LLC and the witness.
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` THE WITNESS: Yeah. I reviewed the
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` entire patent.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. Did you understand its contents?
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` A. I did.
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` Q. Was there anything you didn't understand?
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` A. I don't remember not understanding
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` anything.
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` Q. Was there anything you didn't understand
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` how to implement?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I was not tasked with
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` implementing a patent, so that was not something
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` that I considered.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. If you turn to Exhibit 3, at Paragraph 5,
`
` you state that in forming your opinions you reviewed
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` the '936 Patent.
`
` Did you fully review the '936 Patent
`
` prior to signing your declaration?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I did fully review the '936
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` Patent. Yes.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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`GODMAR BACK
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` Q. Did you understand all of its contents?
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` A. I believe so.
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` Q. Was there anything that you didn't
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` understand?
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` A. I can't recall anything not understand.
`
` Q. In your Technology Overview section at
`
` Paragraph 20, you state that "high-speed memories of
`
` the time were also volatile memories, the contents
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` of which are erased upon power reset."
`
` And you conclude that, "Therefore,
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` storing desired information, such as boot
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` information, ahead of time was not possible."
`
` Is it your testimony that at the time of
`
` the patent, not one nonvolatile high-speed memory
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` existed?
`
` A. Which Paragraph 20 are you referring to?
`
` In which document?
`
` Q. The one that's in front of you. I'll let
`
` you know when I switch. It would be Exhibit 3.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. I'm referring to Paragraph 20. Would you
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` like me to repeat the question?
`
` A. I don't see what you just said in
`
` Paragraph 20. Am I looking at the wrong document?
`
` Q. So if you look at the bottom of the
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`GODMAR BACK
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` paragraph, Paragraph 20, you'll see the language I
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` quoted.
`
` A. So the bottom of Paragraph 20, in Exhibit
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` 3, on Page 8. Right?
`
` Q. That's correct.
`
` A. Okay. I'm sorry. If you could go again.
`
` Q. And at that section you state,
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` "high-speed memories of the time were also volatile
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` memories, the contents of which are erased upon
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` power reset."
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` You then conclude that, "Therefore,
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` storing desired information, such as boot
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` information, ahead of time was not possible."
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
`
` Q. Is it your testimony that as of the time
`
` of the patent, not one nonvolatile high-speed memory
`
` existed?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So that is not my
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` testimony, and that is also not what is spelled
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` out here.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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`GODMAR BACK
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` Q. So at the time of the patent, there were
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` nonvolatile high-speed memories. Correct?
`
` A. At the time of the -- define time of the
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` patent.
`
` Q. In the 2000 timeframe.
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` A. Yes. There were high-speed nonvolatile
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` memories. Just if I may add, the...
`
` Q. Go ahead.
`
` A. No. I'm sorry. Never mind.
`
` Q. Was there any physical limitation of
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` high-speed nonvolatile memories that would have
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` precluded someone from being able to store boot
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` information on those memories?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So first, generally in the
`
` art, we don't refer to storing information. If
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` we refer to storing data. And in the context of
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` this patent, we are discussing the term "boot
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` data," and boot data can indeed be stored on
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` such memories.
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
`
` Q. Can be stored on nonvolatile memories.
`
` Correct?
`
` A. It could be stored on nonvolatile
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` memories.
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`GODMAR BACK
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` Q. When you stated that "high-speed memories
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` of the time were also volatile memories, the
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` contents of which are erased upon power reset," and
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` then you concluded that "storing desired
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` information, such as boot information, ahead of time
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` was not possible," you didn't in your declaration
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` cite to the patent. Did you?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` THE WITNESS: So the first sentence in
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` the statement here, I cite the references and
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` the patent by Sukegawa, which was one of the
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` pieces of prior art that I reviewed.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
`
` Q. But for those two statements, you did not
`
` cite to the '936 Patent. Did you?
`
` A. For these statements that I spelled here,
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` that if a memory is volatile, it is not possible to
`
` store information, ahead of time, I did not cite to
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` -- I did not reference a patent because that is a
`
` fact that is known to a person of ordinary skill in
`
` the art.
`
` Q. But the question is, you did not cite to
`
` the '936 Patent. Correct?
`
` A. In here, there is no citation to any
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` patent other than this Sukegawa patent, and that
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` refers to the first sentence.
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`GODMAR BACK
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` Q. Thank you. I'd like you to turn to
`
` Exhibit 2, please. In Exhibit 2, at the bottom of
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` Paragraph 20, you state that "high-speed memories"
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` -- are you there?
`
` A. Uh-huh.
`
` Q. You state that "high-speed memories of
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` the time were also volatile memories, the contents
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` of which are erased upon power reset."
`
` And you conclude that, "Therefore,
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` storing desired information, such as boot
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` information, ahead of time was not possible."
`
` For those two statements, you did not
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` site to the '608 Patent for support. Is that
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` correct.
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` THE WITNESS: So, first, if I may, it
`
` says here "traditional high-speed memories." I
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` think we saw in the other declaration that it
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` uses the phrase "typical high-speed memories."
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` I think "typical high-speed memories" may be a
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` more accurate term.
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` This statement is an observation made in
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` the Sukegawa patent to which it cites, and the
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` conclusion that I'm drawing that because this
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`GODMAR BACK
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` memory is a volatile memory use, it's not
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` possible to store boot information ahead of time
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` is a conclusion that I do not cite the patent to
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` because it is something that is really readily
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` apparent to a person of ordinary still.
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
`
` Q. But you agree that boot information can
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` be stored in nonvolatile memory. Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. Let me rephrase that.
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` In the 2000 time period, boot information
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` could have been stored in nonvolatile memory.
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` Correct?
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` A. In the 2000 timeframe, boot information
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` could be stored in the nonvolatile memory, but my
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` statement here makes a different point.
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` The point is that because we observed,
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` Sukegawa observed, that typical traditional
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` high-speed memories at the time are volatile, it was
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` not possible to store boot information in those
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` memories.
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` Q. In 2000, it would have been possible to
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` store boot information in nonvolatile memory and to
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` implement the invention using nonvolatile memory.
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` Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. And by "the invention," I mean the
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` invention of the '608 Patent.
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` Objection. Compound.
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` THE WITNESS: No, that would not be
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` possible. The '608 Patent is not about storing
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` information.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. In the 2000 timeframe, it would have been
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` possible to store boot information in high-speed
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` nonvolatile memory, though. Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: It would have been possible
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` to store boot information in high-speed
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` nonvolatile memory.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. And it would have been possible to load
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` boot information into high-speed nonvolatile memory.
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` Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: It would also have been
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` possible to load boot information into
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` high-speed nonvolatile memory. Yes.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. In the 2000 timeframe. Correct?
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` A. In the 2000 timeframe. Yes.
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` Q. It would have been possible in 2000 to
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` load boot information into high-speed nonvolatile
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` memory prior to completion of CPU initialization.
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` Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: Yes, it would have been
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` possible -- I'm sorry. Did you say at the time
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` of the invention or before the time of the
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` invention?
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. It would have been possible in 2000 to
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` load boot information into high-speed nonvolatile
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` memory prior to CPU -- prior to completion of CPU
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` initialization. Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: When you say it would have
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` been possible, you mean somebody could design a
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` system that would do that?
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. Correct. A person of ordinary skill in
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` the art would know that you could design a system to
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` do that?
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`GODMAR BACK
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: So I'm not certain if that
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` would fall in what a person of ordinary skill
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` would do, but it is something that would have
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` been possible I think, uh-huh.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. In the same Technology Overview, in the
`
` declaration that you have before you, which is
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` Exhibit 2 -- is that correct?
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` A. Yes. I'm looking at Exhibit 2.
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` Q. So in that same Technology Overview, at
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` Paragraph 23, you note that "The claims of the '608
`
` Patent recite 'preloading' compressed boot data into
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` the cache memory." Do you see that?
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` A. That's the first -- that's the topic
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` sentence of the Paragraph 23.
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` Q. And you state that "a claimed
`
` 'preloading' must occur sometime after power on but
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` prior to completion of initialization."
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` Do you see that?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
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` THE WITNESS: So the -- what I wrote
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` here, it says, "a claimed 'preloading' must
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` occur sometimes after power on but prior to
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` completion of initialization." Where
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` initialization, to be clear, has an antecedent
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` in initialization of the central processing
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` unit.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. You didn't cite the '608 Patent in
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` support of those statements. Did you?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
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` THE WITNESS: So this is a statement that
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` a person of ordinary skill would interpret the
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` '608 Patent does, in terms of light of the
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` specification, and the -- here, there is no
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` citation, but the phase "prior to completion
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` of" -- that should be the "initialization of the
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` CPU," and it is indeed in the '608 Patent.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So I'm going to ask you a number of
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` questions. I'm going to ask you to stick to the
`
` question that I've asked.
`
` The question that I asked is, did you
`
` cite the '608 Patent in support of those statements?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: In Paragraph 23?
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. That's correct.
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` A. I don't see a cite here.
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` Q. The '608 Patent never states that
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` preloading must occur after power on. Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall if it states
`
` that, but I believe that it would be apparent.
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` It makes sense from the context to a person of
`
` ordinary skill.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. But it never says that?
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` A. I do not remember that for certain.
`
` Q. If it said that, would you have cited
`
` that in your declaration?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I'm not certain. I may
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` have.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. If you'd turn to Exhibit 3.
`
` Actually, let's turn back to Exhibit 2.
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` You may want to refer to the '608 Patent, as well.
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` The question is, is it your opinion that
`
` the claimed cache memory, for example, of Claim 1 of
`
` the '608 Patent is a high-speed memory?
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` A. Again, 1 is -- do you want me to refer to
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` Exhibit 1?
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` Q. It's the '608 Patent.
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. Is it your --
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` A. Which part would you like me to look at?
`
` Q. Claim 1. Is it your opinion that the
`
` claimed cache memory is a high-speed memory?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: You're referring
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` specifically to which occurrence of cache memory
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` in Claim 1? Is there more than one? Let me
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` check.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. It should all refer to the same cache
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` memory.
`
` A. So there's reference to cache memory in
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` the third claim element.
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` Q. Yes. Let's focus on that one, the
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` preloading the boot data into a cache memory.
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` A. You're asking if that is a high-speed
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` memory.
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` Q. Is that your understanding?
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` A. I think that is my understanding, and I
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` believe that a person of ordinary skill would have
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` the same understanding.
`
` Q. Can you turn to Figure 1, please, of the
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` '608 Patent? Is that cache memory of Claim 1
`
` illustrated here in Figure 1 as Element 13?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. If you open up the patent, you can see a
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` larger version of that figure.
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` A. So when a patent uses the term "cache
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` memory" in the claim, then typically what is in the
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` specification of the figure is just one example. So
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` I don't think it would be fair to say that it is the
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` reference tool, but a person of ordinary skill
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` might -- if they look, for example, for cache
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` memory, they might be thinking of the one shown in
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` Number 13.
`
` Q. Thank you. So Cache Memory 13 in Figure
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` 1 is one example of the cache memory in Clause 3 of
`
` Claim 1?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` THE WITNESS: It is one example of a
`
` cache memory that would fall within the parties'
`
` interpretation of the term used in the claim.
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` Yes.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. And that cache memory in Figure 1 can be
`
` both -- can be either volatile or nonvolatile
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` memory. Correct?
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`GODMAR BACK
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: I will relate to you what
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` the patent says. The patent says that both
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` volatile and nonvolatile memories can be used.
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` Preferably one would use SDRAM, which is a form
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` for nonvolatile memory. I think that is what
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` the patent says.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So the patent teaches that nonvolatile
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` memory can be used as the Cache 13. Correct?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: The patent asserts that
`
` both volatile and nonvolatile memory can be used
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` and that preferably a person of skill in the art
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` would use the form of SDRAM which is a form of
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` volatile memory.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So you keep not answering my question and
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` adding this language about preferably. Is it your
`
` view that under the law that the fact that the term
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` preferably was used somehow negates the teachings of
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` the patent?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` Calls for a legal conclusion.
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` THE WITNESS: So I'm not a lawyer. Okay.
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` My job here is to accurately relate to you what
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` the patent says and understand it.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. And so my question was simply, does the
`
` patent teach that the Cache Memory 13 can be
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` nonvolatile?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. It's a yes-or-no question. Does it teach
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` that or not?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: By teach, you mean it
`
` mentions it? Or do you mean it implies it? It
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` suggests it?
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. It specifically states it?
`
` A. No, it doesn't state that.
`
` Q. It does not state that the Cache Memory
`
` 13 can be nonvolatile memory?
`
` A. No. I was not able to find that. I
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` believe I related what the patent says.
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` Q. The patent says that the cache memory can
`
` be nonvolatile.
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: The patent says that the
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` cache memory can be -- that both volatile and
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` nonvolatile forms of memory can be used. That's
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` what it says.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So it says that nonvolatile can be used
`
` as cache memory?
`
` A. No, that's not what it says. It says
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` that both volatile and nonvolatile memory can be
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` used.
`
` Q. So doesn't that mean that volatile can be
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` used and separately nonvolatile can be used? I'm
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` confused as to how you're answering that question.
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I am trying to accurately
`
` relate what the patent says. The patent does
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` not say that Cache Memory 13 is nonvolatile. It
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` says that for the cache memory, both volatile
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` and nonvolatile memory can be used.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So Cache Memory 13 can be either volatile
`
` or nonvolatile?
`
` A. Yes. Those are exclusive choices.
`
` Uh-huh.
`
` Q. And the same is true for the '936 Patent.
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` Correct?
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`GODMAR BACK
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` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
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` THE WITNESS: So would you mind repeating
`
` what you mean by "the same"?
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. If you turn to Figure 1 of the '936
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` Patent --
`
` A. I have that.
`
` Q. -- the Cache Memory 13 can be volatile or
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` nonvolatile. Correct?
`
` A. The Cache Memory 13 here, based on the
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` statement in the patent that both volatile and
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` nonvolatile memories could be used, it could be
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` either or.
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` Q. So I think to simplify things, I'm going
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` to refer to the patent to refer to the patent
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` specification. I'll refer to the patent
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` specification to mean the patent specification of
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` the '936 and the '608. Are you comfortable with
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` that? Are these specifications -- let me pull my
`
` question.
`
` I'm going to withdraw that question.
`
` For the '936 Patent, is it your opinion
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` that the claimed cache memory of Claim 1 is
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` high-speed memory?
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` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: So I believe that the cache
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` memory in Figure 13 is high-speed memory. I
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` don't -- I don't know if --
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. Figure 13 or Figure 1?
`
` A. I'm sorry. Yes. The Figure 1, item
`
` labeled 13, I believe that is high-speed memory. I
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` am not entirely certain if the adjective
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` "high-speed" is used in the patent, but I'm
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` confident that this would be an interpretation that
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` a person of ordinary skill would apply.
`
` Q. Turn to Claim 1, please, of the '936
`
` Patent. Do you see where Claim 1 uses the term
`
` "boot device" in the first clause?
`
` A. Yes. It's the last word in the first
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` element.
`
` Q. In your view, is Hard Disk 11 of Figure 1
`
` one example of a boot device as recited in Claim 1?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: In Figure 1, Hard Disk 11,
`
` here.
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. Correct.
`
` A. Yes. That is one example of a boot
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` device in the context of the specification.
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` Q. In your opinion, can the Data Controller
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` 10 which is shown in Figure 1 and described
`
` elsewhere in the patent, can that function as
`
` described in the '936 Patent if Cache 13 is a
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` nonvolatile memory?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I would say no. No. The
`
` -- well, let me qualify this.
`
` The -- most of the, if not all, of the
`
` specification of both the '608 and the '936
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` Patents focus on how this particular controller
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` would operate if the cache memory is a volatile
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` memory. But if it weren't a volatile memory,
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` then the cache controller could -- would operate
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` in a way that actually does not benefit from the
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` nonvolatility of the memory.
`
` BY MS. VIDAL:
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` Q. So nonvolatility of the memory would just
`
` be an added feature?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: In this hypothetical setup
`
` that you are proposing, the nonvolatility of the
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` memory would be superfluous, and it would not be
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` needed.
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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` BY MS. VIDAL:
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`GODMAR BACK
`
` Q. So it wouldn't matter if the memory was
`
` volatile or nonvolatile?
`
` MR. EDELL: Objection. Mischaracterizes.
`
` THE WITNESS: The fact that the
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` nonvolatility would be superfluous means indeed,
`
` yeah, it would no
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