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` BATES - VOLUME 1
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` -----------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -----------------------------
` BRIGHT HOUSE NETWORKS, LLC
` WIDEOPENWEST FINANCE, LLC
` KNOLOGY OF FLORIDA, INC.
` BIRCH COMMUNICATIONS, INC.,
`
` PETITIONERS,
`
` V.
`
` FOCAL IP, LLC,
` PATENT OWNER.
` ----------------------------
`
` Case IPR2016-01259
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` Case IPR 2016-01261
` Patent Number: 8,457,113
` Case IPR2016-01262
` Patent Number: 7,764,777
` Case IPR2016-01263
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` ------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.
` FORT WORTH, TEXAS
` MAY 8, 2017
` Volume 1
`
`Reported by: Susan S. Klinger, RMR-CRR, CSR
`Job No. 123318
`
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` -----------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -----------------------------
` BRIGHT HOUSE NETWORKS, LLC
` WIDEOPENWEST FINANCE, LLC
` KNOLOGY OF FLORIDA, INC.
` BIRCH COMMUNICATIONS, INC.,
`
` PETITIONERS,
`
` V.
`
` FOCAL IP, LLC,
` PATENT OWNER.
` ----------------------------
`
` Case IPR2016-01259
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` Case IPR 2016-01261
` Patent Number: 8,457,113
` Case IPR2016-01262
` Patent Number: 7,764,777
` Case IPR2016-01263
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` ------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.
` FORT WORTH, TEXAS
` MAY 8, 2017
` Volume 1
`
`Reported by: Susan S. Klinger, RMR-CRR, CSR
`Job No. 123318
`
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
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`Page 2
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` May 8, 2017
` 10:06 a.m.
`
` Deposition of REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.,
`held at the offices of Nelson Bumgardner PC, 3131
`West 7th Street, Fort Worth, Texas, before
`Susan S. Klinger, a Registered Merit Reporter
`and Certified Realtime Reporter of the State of
`Texas.
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`Attorneys for Petitioners:
` Mr. Christopher Tyson
` Mr. Patrick McPherson
` DUANE MORRIS
` 505 9th Street, N.W.
` Washington, DC 20004
`
` Mr. Wayne Stacy
` BAKER BOTTS
` 2001 Ross Avenue
` Dallas, Texas 75201-2980
`
` Mr. Jaspal Singh Hare
` SPENCER FANE
` 10100 North Central Expressway
` Dallas, Texas 75231
`
`Attorneys for Patent Owner:
` Mr. John Murphy
` NELSON BUMGARDNER
` 3131 West 7th Street
` Fort Worth, Texas 76107
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
`Mr. Hanna Madbak
`Mr. Victor Siber (telephonically)
`SIBER LAW
`28 West 44th Street
`New York, New York 10036
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
` I N D E X
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`WITNESS PAGE
`
`REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.
`EXAMINATION BY MR. TYSON 6
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Not attached.)
`No. Description Page
`Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent 8,457,113 12
`Exhibit 1004 U.S. Patent 5,958,016 99
`Exhibit 2019 La Porta deposition 199
`Exhibit 2027 Willis declaration 207
`Exhibit 2040 Bates declaration 17
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` BATES - VOLUME 1
` REGIS JEROME "BUD" BATES, JR.,
`having been first duly sworn testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. TYSON:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Bates.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. I'm just going to do real quick
`housekeeping, just to make appearances. So I'm
`Chris Tyson with the law firm of Duane Morris,
`and I'm here on behalf of the petitioners in
`the IPRs. And I'm just going to read off the
`different IPR numbers that are at issue in this
`case.
` We have Case IPR2016-01261. That is
`Bright House Networks, LLC, WideOpenWest
`Finance, LLC, Knology of Florida, Inc., Birch
`Communications, Inc., our petitioners, versus
`Focal IP, LLC, the patent owner.
` There are four matters. All have
`the same caption. The second matter is Case
`IPR2016-01259. There is Case IPR2016-01262 and
`Case IPR2016-01263.
` MR. TYSON: So if we could just
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` continue with appearances.
` MR. McPHERSON: Pat McPherson, Duane
` Morris, for the petitioner.
` MR. LA PORTA: Tom La Porta.
` MR. STACY: Wayne Stacy, Baker
` Botts, petitioner.
` MR. HARE: Jaspal Hare, Spencer Fane
` for petitioner.
` MR. MURPHY: John Murphy on behalf
` of patent owner from Nelson Bumgardner, and
` with me are Hanna Madbak and Victor Siber
` from the Siber Law Firm.
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. TYSON:
` Q. All right. Mr. Bates, can you
`please state your full name?
` A. I will give you my legal name.
` Q. All right.
` A. Regis Jerome Bates, Jr.
` Q. Thank you.
` A. However, I go by Bud.
` Q. All right. Well, I will call you
`Mr. Bates for purposes of the deposition if
`that is all right.
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` A. That will be fine.
` Q. Okay. I'm just going to do a few
`ground rules with you. You have been deposed
`before; correct?
` A. I have.
` Q. Okay. So this is nothing new to
`you, but this is a question and answer period.
`I'm going to ask a number of questions. You
`are going to be providing me with answers.
` We have a court reporter here. The
`court reporter's job is to transcribe the
`things that you say, so please do not try to
`answer a question with a verbal acknowledgment,
`a nod, a shaking of the head, because that
`won't be able to be transcribed in the record.
`So to the extent you can, and I will try to
`remind you if you ever slip up with that, just
`use a verbal response in your answers. Do you
`understand that?
` A. Understood.
` Q. Okay. So for -- clarity is really
`important. My questions that I ask you, if you
`don't understand a question or you would like
`some clarification, just please feel free to
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`ask me. Ask me to rephrase the question. Ask
`me to restate the question. Do you understand
`that?
` A. Agreed.
` Q. Is there any reason that you can't
`testify fully and truthfully today?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. Are you on any medication
`that would impact your ability to testify fully
`and truthfully today?
` A. None.
` Q. All right. Breaks. If you need a
`break, tell me. The only thing I ask is that
`if I have a question pending, that you answer
`the question, and then we will take a break.
` A. I understand.
` Q. Is there any reason that you would
`need to make more frequent breaks than an hour
`or is that...
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. But obviously, if there is
`something that urgently comes up, just let me
`know, and we will get through the question, and
`then at a logical breaking point, we can stop.
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`All right?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Okay. There are a number of
`abbreviations I just want to go over with you.
`The first is IPR. We're using that in the
`context of inter partes review. Do you
`understand what an inter partes review is?
` A. I have a pretty good understanding
`of what it is.
` Q. Okay. If I use the word -- if I use
`the term "IPR," would you understand that I'm
`referring to an inter partes review?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. There are three patents at
`issue in these proceedings. Do you understand
`that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The first is U.S. Patent Number
`7,764,777, and I will be referring to that as
`the '777 patent.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. The second is U.S. Patent
`Number 8,155,298. I will be referring to that
`as the '298 patent?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. U.S. Patent Number 8,457,113,
`I will be referring to that as the '113 patent.
`Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, those three patents, they share
`the same specification; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And all the patents have the
`same figures as well; correct?
` A. As I recall, yes.
` Q. Okay. And to your recollection, do
`all the patents claim priority to the same
`original parent application?
` A. I believe they do.
` Q. Okay. And you may not recall this,
`but the date of that parent application is May
`4th, 2000. Does that sound right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. So in your reports, you have
`used terms like "date of the challenged patent.
`The date of the challenged patent, was that May
`4th, 2000? Is that what you were referring to
`in your reports?
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` A. I would have used the priority date,
`yes.
` Q. All right. So that's introductory
`matters. Any questions for me upfront?
` A. No.
` Q. Okay. I want to introduce the first
`exhibit that we will talk about today, and that
`is the '113 patent itself. This has been
`premarked as Bright House Networks Exhibit
`1001.
` (Exhibit 1001 discussed.)
` Q. Okay. Are you familiar with this
`document?
` A. I am.
` Q. Okay. Do you understand that this
`is the '113 patent that is at issue in this
`case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Now, the patents, we talked
`about the fact that they all share the same
`specification; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. So if you turn to column 1,
`that is page 17 on this copy here. And there's
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`a section called "background." Do you see
`that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. And in the background section
`of the patent, all the patents share this same
`background; is that right?
` A. I believe so, correct.
` Q. Okay. And so they all describe --
`all the patents describe some problems that
`they state with regard to existing technology;
`is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. So let's look specifically at
`column 1. Do you see line 59 there?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And so I'm just going to read
`that. "In the past, numerous devices have been
`built that allow the connection of two lines
`together at an edge switch. These devices can
`be used to add features to a telephone network
`by receiving a call on one line and then
`dialing out on another line. The problem with
`these devices is that, because they're
`connected through an edge switch, transmission
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`losses and impairments occur, degrading the
`overall connection."
` Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. Now, the transmission loss
`that it refers to here, transmission losses and
`impairments, that is due to the use of analog
`lines; is that correct?
` A. That is -- it is typically the
`analog local loop that we're talking about
`here. There's a pair of wires that runs from
`the edge switch to the edge device. Whether
`that is analog or digital, you still have
`impairments. On an analog facility you would
`have more.
` Q. Okay. But as one of skill in the
`art, would you understand that one way to fix
`the transmission losses and impairments that it
`talks about in this section would be to use
`digital lines?
` A. Digital could be used. However, the
`telephone companies, at the time of this
`invention, were not ready to roll out digital
`facilities to all of their customers.
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` Q. Was it -- as a person of ordinary
`skill in the art, would you understand that
`there were no digital lines that were in use
`between what this is referring to as an edge
`switch and a subscriber?
` A. No, I didn't say that.
` Q. Okay. So there were some digital
`lines in usage?
` A. There were.
` Q. Okay. And is it your testimony that
`if you used digital lines like some were used
`between what this -- the patent refers to here
`as an edge switch and a subscriber, that you
`would not have transmission losses and
`impairments?
` A. Again, I didn't say that, because if
`I were using digital, there is still loss.
` Q. Okay.
` A. We use different types of
`conditioning on the circuit, but there is still
`loss.
` Q. Okay. But the transmission loss and
`impairments that it's referring to in this
`column 1, line 59 to 65, is that referring to
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`transmission losses and impairments from analog
`lines?
` A. The gist of the conversation does
`imply that it is on the analog local loop.
` Q. Okay. And it is your testimony that
`you don't get these same transmission losses
`and impairments at tandem switches because
`tandem switches receive and process signals in
`digital form; is that correct?
` A. In the tandem network, which works
`to the outside as well as to the inside, it is
`going to be all digital type facilities.
` Q. Correct. And in those digital type
`facilities, you would not have these
`transmission losses and impairments occurring
`because those tandem switches use digital
`lines; is that correct?
` A. Not to the degree that you would
`have at the local loop.
` Q. Okay. Let me just -- I'm just going
`to ask you a question using your declaration,
`if that's all right. You submitted a number of
`declarations; is that right?
` A. I did.
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` Q. In this case. I think there were a
`total of six; is that correct?
` A. Seemed like about 100, but six is
`probably correct.
` Q. Okay. I'm going to introduce this
`exhibit. This is the Declaration of Regis J.
`"Bud" Bates in Support of Patent Owner's
`Contingent Motion to Amend Case IPR2016-01261,
`Patent Number 8,457,113. And this has been
`already premarked as Exhibit 2040.
` (Exhibit 2040 discussed.)
` Q. If you could turn to page 15 for me,
`please.
` A. I'm sorry, page?
` Q. 15, 15.
` A. Sure.
` Q. Can you read for me paragraph 44,
`please, Mr. Bates?
` A. "Another advantage regarding the
`TAC's placement at a tandem switch concerns
`call quality. Running an analog voice signal
`from an edge switch to an edge device over
`copper wire degrades the quality of the signal,
`paren, an edge device is a device connected to
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`an edge switch typically on a customer's
`premises such as a private branch exchange,
`parens, PBX, or a generic telephone. See '113
`patent at 5, lines 4 through 7.
` The prior art call forwarding
`solution suffers from degradation twice, once
`from the calling party's call to the controller
`connected to the CO and once from the
`controller's call to the forwarding number. On
`the other hand, handling calls at the tandem
`level maintains the quality of the call as it
`is processed within the PSTN, where the signal
`will most likely be in digital form and/or
`carried over high quality lines, as compared to
`the end lines that carry a call from the CO to
`a phone."
` And that references Patent '113,
`column 1, 59 through column 2, 63, and column
`2, 40 through 54.
` Q. Thank you. In that last sentence
`that is spanning pages 15 to 16 of your
`declaration here, you're drawing a comparison;
`is that correct?
` A. I am.
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` Q. And you're drawing a comparison
`between -- you say here handling calls at the
`tandem level, and you're comparing the fact
`that the signals will most likely be in digital
`form and are carried over high quality lines.
`And you are comparing that to end lines that
`carry a call from a -- you say "CO." Is that
`central office?
` A. A central office.
` Q. To a phone. So the comparison that
`you are making is between the end lines or --
`when we're talking about end lines between --
`that carry a call from a central office -- when
`you are referring to central office, you are
`referring to this edge switch that is in column
`1, line 59 to 65; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And what you are talking about here
`when you say "maintains the quality of the call
`at the tandem level," that is in comparison to
`the transmission losses and impairments in
`column 1, line 59 to 65; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So you considered that -- the call
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`that is -- that is at the tandem level, that is
`maintained there, you would consider that to be
`a quality call as opposed to having
`transmission losses and impairments; is that
`correct?
` A. A higher quality will be maintained
`across the PSTN from the tandem level on out.
` Q. Okay. And is -- that maintaining of
`that quality is due to the fact that the
`signals that the tandem -- that the tandem
`switch in this case is receiving and processing
`are in digital form; is that correct?
` A. Well, it's not just that it's in
`digital form, as we mentioned, the fact that
`the local loop is the area where the wires get
`abused all the time. I usually -- I've done a
`lot of public speaking, and I usually refer to
`Billy Bob on his bodacious backhoe constantly
`digs up these wires, and they have been
`respliced together.
` Whether it is analog or digital, you
`are going to have loop impairments because of
`the splices, because of other things,
`amplifiers if it is analog, even digital
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`repeaters if it has been made digital. We're
`going to have impairments on that local loop.
`It is old wire. It has been in the ground for
`a long period of time, and it is what the
`telcos had installed. And they have not yet
`moved to a full digital architecture to an end
`premise.
` Q. Okay. That is helpful. I've never
`heard of Billy Bob on his backhoe, so I
`appreciate that. But I guess the point I'm
`trying to make is that in -- we're talking --
`in the patent it is talking about some of these
`specific transmission losses and impairments.
`I don't know that it is talking about Billy Bob
`on the backhoe in this section, is it?
` A. But the transmission losses and
`impairments occur because of those things. And
`if you are going to use the Billy Bob against
`me, I'll --
` Q. I'm not using it against you.
` A. -- I won't go back to that, because
`there are other things that would cause those
`kinds of impairments.
` Q. Okay. But in your statement here,
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`you are saying that handling calls at the
`tandem level maintains the quality of the call
`that is processed within the PSTN where the
`signal will most likely be in digital form; is
`that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. So what digital formats did
`tandem switches use prior to May 4, 2000?
` A. Across the back of the whole network
`they would have used T1 and T3 architecture,
`switch-to-switch type communications. They'd
`even moved into some of the optical networking
`scenarios between switches, particularly on the
`long haul.
` Q. Okay. And T1 to T3, does that
`describe the format of the signal, or is that
`describing the type of cable?
` A. The T1 and T3 refers typically to
`the physical medium. Then we refer to the DS1
`or the DS3 as the form of the signal that is
`actually being carried.
` Q. Okay. Thank you for that. Do you
`understand what pulse code modulation is?
` A. I do.
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` Q. And that acronym is typically in
`the -- I've seen in the art is PCM; is that
`right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. Would PCM be a digital -- be
`a format that tandem switches would use?
` A. It would be.
` Q. Okay. What other formats -- we've
`talked -- you said DS1, DS0; correct? Those
`were digital formats that you've mentioned?
` A. Well, we can include the DS0. I
`mentioned DS1 and DS3.
` Q. And DS3. Okay. But DS0 would be
`another --
` A. It would also --
` Q. -- digital format?
` A. -- be a digital signal at 64
`kilobits per second.
` Q. Okay. And that DS0 was a digital
`format that tandem switches would use prior to
`May 4, 2000?
` A. It could be used. It would be a
`little bit small for a specific tandem. I mean
`when you are only dealing with one small
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`channel between two tandem switches, that
`doesn't get me much. We tend to want higher
`throughput capabilities and higher multiplexing
`capabilities like the DS1 or the DS3.
` Q. Okay. So it would depend on the
`implementation, but DS0 could be used at a
`tandem switch?
` A. It could be.
` Q. Okay. Any others that you can think
`of?
` A. In a fiber world we use what we call
`an OC1, an OC3, an OC12. There are several
`multiplexing techniques there.
` Q. And are those -- would you consider
`those digital formats or something else?
` A. I would consider them digital
`format. We have a digital input. It turns
`light on and off based on the ones and zeros
`that we're putting in, and it carries the light
`down the glass.
` Q. Okay. And we have already talked
`about this. So if -- let's say it's your -- is
`it your testimony that if switches receive and
`process signals using pulse code modulation,
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`for example, which is a digital format;
`correct?
` A. They would receive the pulse code
`modulation and then process it from there.
`There may be a demultiplexing format that is
`taking place before the switch actually takes
`it.
` Q. Okay. So if -- for example, if
`switches only receive and process pulse code
`modulation format signals and then maybe there
`is some multiplexing and other things, rather
`than an analog format, would it be your
`testimony that using PCM, you won't get the
`transmission losses and impairments that we
`talked about earlier with respect to the
`patent?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, misstates
` the testimony.
` A. Once again, as I explained earlier,
`on the local loop to the end user's device,
`there still could be impairments across that
`circuit. They have to treat that pair of
`wires -- in a T1 or a DS0 it's a four-wire
`circuit as opposed to a two-wire circuit, so it
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`has to be treated and conditioned to the point
`that it can carry that digital transmission.
`There could still be impairments. We have to
`use regenerators to carry the signal over
`distance.
` Q. Okay. And when I look at your
`declaration, and I'm looking at, again, this
`last sentence spanning pages 15 to 16, when you
`talk about maintaining the quality of the call,
`and you talk about the signal will most likely
`be in digital form, if it -- PCM would be an
`example of the digital form that you are
`referring to in this sentence; correct?
` A. Yes. We agreed to that.
` Q. Okay. You also refer here to
`something called "high quality lines." What
`are high quality lines?
` A. Well, once again, instead of just a
`single unshielded, twisted pair running to an
`edge device, which is going to be prone to all
`of these issues, out in the telco world they
`will be using higher quality. I mean they're
`using toll quality type services.
` So the higher quality means that
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`their cables aren't going to be as abused as
`what we would find at the local loop. They're
`going to be maintaining their full digital
`transmission across the entire network as
`opposed to having to take it down to analog at
`the end user.
` Q. So is a shielded line a high quality
`line?
` A. A shielded would be a better
`quality, yes. The shielding prevents the
`interference from electrical impulses on the
`other lines.
` Q. Okay. When you refer to high
`quality line, is that a -- does it matter if
`it's a digital line as opposed to analog? Does
`that also come into play when you refer to high
`quality?
` A. Well, in the network, the bulk of
`the network is -- outside the network is
`digital. It is only at the end loop where we
`get the analog type facilities these days. So
`the high quality is what we refer to as toll
`quality.
` The telcos build and maintain a
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`quality of service across their backbone
`networks. They use, again, the higher quality
`facilities that -- it is a thicker grade wire
`in most cases. They will use optical
`networking, and they will use a number of other
`tools that they would have.
` Q. Okay. So I look at this, this is a
`pretty specific problem that it is talking
`about. Would you agree? Is that fair? Is
`this a specific problem it's talking about with
`respect to column 1, in column 1?
` A. In terms of the background?
` Q. In terms of the background, the
`transmission losses and impairments, it's a
`fairly significant problem.
` A. It was a significant problem.
` Q. No, a specific problem.
` A. A specific problem.
` Q. Okay. So is connecting -- I see
`here at the top of column 2, for example, it
`says: A preferred embodiment of the inventive
`system described herein connects at the tandem,
`thereby eliminating these problems." Do you
`see that?
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` A. I do.
` Q. And is that what you are referring
`to here at this column 15 -- sorry -- page 15
`and 16 of your declaration when you talk about
`maintaining the quality of a call?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. As one of skill in the art,
`is there any other way that you could solve
`this transmission loss and impairment problem,
`other than connecting at the tandem?
` A. I think you have to take a look at
`that and say, okay, what am I really
`accomplishing? The purpose of the patent was
`to do something at tandem as opposed to
`suffering the impairments. You want to build a
`whole network? You want to redo all the wiring
`to everybody's door? I guess -- if somebody
`would ever be crazy enough to think about doing
`that, I guess it would be possible.
` Q. Okay. So are you saying that the
`only other way to solve these, like,
`transmission losses and impairments that occur
`at an edge switch is to totally -- let me look
`at what you said -- rewire the network?
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` A. It would be more than that,
`unfortunately. You would have to rewire it
`because that would have to clean up some of the
`impairments, but then you're still exposed to
`some of the same issues that we've had that
`caused the degradation all the way.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I've worked with a lot of the
`telephone companies in terms of how they keep
`thinking about how do we get fiber to the door?
`How do we get fiber to the curb? It's just so
`expensive, they haven't been moving. And at
`the time of the invention, it just was far too
`expensive for them to even consider, so they
`suffered through the analog local loop.
` Q. Okay. If you just connected two
`lines together at a switch, and those were both
`carrying digital signals, would you maintain
`the quality of the call as you refer to on page
`15 of your declaration?
` A. The intent of trunk-to-trunk
`communications in a switch is just that. I'm
`connecting two trunks, which are just higher
`volume circuits and so on, but the channels
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`within those trunks, we're connecting them.
`But again, they use different conditioning
`equipment in that central office -- excuse
`me -- in that tandem office as they would
`anywhere else across the wide area network.
` Q. You use the word "central office."
`Is that always a tandem switch?
` A. No. That was my faux pas, and that
`is why I corrected myself and said at the
`tandem. The central office is the edge
`office --
` Q. Could the central --
` A. -- the way we refer to it.
` Q. Sorry. Could the central office be
`a tandem switch?
` A. A tandem office is designed as
`strictly a pass-through office. There are
`people -- I mean this is an industry that uses
`all kinds of different names for everything we
`do. Some people say, oh, it's a central
`office.
` The intent of the central office
`under the Bell System architecture was the fact
`that we would put an office in a community, a
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`residential type area or a business area, and
`we would feed cables out of that central office
`to the end user. And that is where the word
`"central" came. It used to be right in the
`center of the area that they were serving.
` Q. Okay. Now -- so you -- were you
`done? I'm sorry.
` A. No. I'm going to complete that
`thought, if you will.
` Q. Okay.
` A. So therefore, the tandem really
`isn't the central office. The central office
`is the end office. We call it an end office.
`We call it a branch exchange. We call it an
`edge switch. We call it a number of different
`things.
` Q. Okay. So you just stated that this
`is an industry that people use all kinds of
`different names for everything they do; right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. So there are probably
`instances where the word "central office" is
`used differently between different
`publications, different patents; is that right?
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` A. Could be, depending on who the
`author is.
` Q. Okay. And so it would be important
`to look at the functionality of the product,
`not just say, oh, that says central office, so
`that has to be the central office that I'm
`talking about. You would probably need to look
`at the functionality. Is that right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. All right. Let's talk about one
`other problem that -- looking, again, at the
`background of the '113 patent, let's look at
`column 2, line 26 to 32
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