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` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` - - - - -
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` - - - - -
` BRIGHT HOUSE NETWORKS, LLC
` WIDEOPENWEST FINANCE, LLC
` KNOLOGY OF FLORIDA, INC.
` BIRCH COMMUNICATIONS, INC.,
` Petitioners
` v.
` FOCAL IP, LLC,
` Patent Owner
` - - - - -
` Case IPR2016-01259
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` Case IPR2016-01261
` Patent Number: 8,457,113
` Case IPR2016-01262
` Patent Number: 7,764,777
` Case IPR2016-01263
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` - - - - -
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` VOLUME II
` - - - - -
` February 24, 2017
` State College, PA
`JOB NO. 119418
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1161, Page 1
`
`

`

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` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`COUNSEL PRESENT (CONT.):
`For the Patent Owner:
` John Murphy, Esquire
` Nelson Bumgardner
` 3131 West 7th Street
` Fort Worth, TX 76107
`
` Hanna Madbak, Esquire
` Siber Law
` 28 W. 44th Street
` New York, NY 10036
`ALSO PRESENT:
`Regis J. (Bud) Bates
`Victoria Ferrandino, Legal Video Specialist
`
`Page 318
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` - - - - -
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
`continuation of the video deposition of
`Dr. Thomas La Porta in the matter of Bright
`House Networks, LLC, et al., versus FOCAL IP,
`LLC, in the United States Patent and Trademark
`Office before the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board, Case Nos. IPR2016-01259, Case No.
`IPR2016-01261, IPR2016-01262, and
`IPR2016-01263.
` This deposition is being held at
`1450 South Atherton Street, State College,
`Pennsylvania, on February 24, 2017, at 8:51 a.m.
` My name is Victoria Ferrandino from
`TSG Reporting, and I'm a Legal Video
`Specialist. The court reporter today is
`Michelle Hall in association with TSG
`Reporting.
` Would counsel please introduce
`yourselves.
` MR. MURPHY: This is John
`Murphy on behalf of the Patent Owner. Do we
`need to introduce ourselves again? This is a
`
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` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`a witness herein, called by Patent Owner for
`examination, by and before Michelle L. Hall, a
`Registered Merit Reporter and Notary Public in
`and for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at
`the Ramada State College Hotel & Conference
`Center, 1450 South Atherton Street, State
`College, PA, on Friday, February 24, 2017, at
`8:51 a.m.
` - - - - -
`
`COUNSEL PRESENT:
`
`For the Petitioners:
`
` Christopher Tyson, Esquire
` Patrick McPherson, Esquire
` Duane Morris
` 505 9th Street, N.W.
` Washington, DC 20004
`
` Sarah Guske, Esquire
` Baker Botts
` 101 California Street
` San Francisco, CA 94111
` Jaspal Hare, Esquire
` Spencer Fane
` 10100 North Central Expressway
` Dallas, TX 75231
` (via teleconference)
` And
` Gardiner Davis, Esquire
` Spencer Fane
` 1000 Walnut Street
` Kansas city, MO 64106
` (via teleconference)
`
`Page 317
`
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` I N D E X
` - - - - -
` WITNESS: DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`
`E X A M I N A T I O N: PAGE
`
`BY MR. MURPHY 319
`
`E X H I B I T S (First Referenced):
`
`EXHIBIT 1002 Declaration of Thomas F. 320
`La Porta in Support of Petition for Inter
`Partes Review of U.S. Patent No. 7,764,777
`
`EXHIBIT 1002 Declaration of Thomas F. 320
`La Porta in Support of Petition for Inter
`Partes Review of U.S. Patent No. 1,155,298
`
`EXHIBIT 1032 (Excerpt) Newton's Telecom 335
`Dictionary, Pages 1, 2, and 13
`EXHIBIT 1033 (Excerpt) Random House 359
`Webster's Computer & Internet Dictionary
`Pages 1, 2, and 11
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`

`

`Page 319
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`continuation.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the
`people on the phone introduce themselves.
` MR. TYSON: Could the people
`on the phone introduce themselves.
` MR. DAVIS: Gardiner Davis,
`Spencer Fane, Kansas City, representing Birch
`Communications.
` MR. HARE: Jaspal Hare from
`Spencer Fane, Dallas, also representing Birch
`Communications.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the
`court reporter please swear in the witness.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Will you
`raise your right hand, please.
` - - - - -
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`a witness herein, having been first duly sworn,
`was examined and testified further as follows:
` - - - - -
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning.
`
`Page 321
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`challenged claims of any of the challenged
`patents are anticipated, do you?
` A. I don't use the term anticipated,
`no. Not explicitly.
` Q. So, sitting here today, you cannot
`allege that all the claims are explicitly
`disclosed --
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` Q. -- in any of the challenged claims?
` A. I would have to go through my
`report. There may be claims that I say are
`explicitly taught in Archer, every element.
`But I -- I don't remember. But -- but, again,
`in my opinion, Archer -- the grounds I have is
`Archer either teaches or renders obvious every
`element of every claim. Let me just check my
`reports here.
` Yeah. So it's my opinion in the
`'777 that all the challenged claims are obvious
`over Archer. So, again, some of these are I
`would say Archer teaches explicitly, some I say
`are inherent, some I say are obvious. I think
`I answered that already for the '113 yesterday.
`
`Page 320
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` Q. Day two. So, just for the record,
`we introduced some new exhibits. Make sure I
`get this right. You have now Archer, which is
`U.S. Patent No. 6,683,870, that's Exhibit 1003
`in the 1216, Exhibit 1103 in the 1259, and
`Exhibit 1003 in the 1262, and Exhibit 1003 in
`the 1263; is that right?
` A. Yes, I have the patent.
` Q. And then you also received your
`expert declaration for the '298 patent, which
`was filed in the 1263 case as Exhibit 1002; is
`that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And then you also have -- and then
`with -- that document is the same as
`Exhibit 1102 in the 1259 case; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And also in front of you is
`Exhibit No. 1002 in the 1262 case, which is
`your expert report to the '777 patent; is that
`correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. You don't -- in any of your expert
`reports, you don't allege that any of the
`
`Page 322
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`And I'll check the '298.
` Again, for the '298, I say the
`claims are obvious over Archer and Chang at
`least, and then obvious over Archer, Chang, and
`Swartz together. So, again, every element I
`claim is either taught explicitly by Archer
`would be obvious or is inherent.
` Q. Right. But can you identify any
`claims that you actually are alleging
`anticipation on?
` A. I don't give an opinion on
`anticipation, so, no.
` Q. For all of your expert reports you
`have a statement in your declarations where you
`say, the prior art grounds discussed below
`match what a POSA would understand the plain
`and ordinary meaning to be of the petition
`claims.
` A. Can you give me an example of a
`page?
` Q. Oh. Looking at the '777 dec.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Paragraph 96.
` A. Yes.
`
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`

`

`Page 323
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` Q. So, this -- this same statement is
`consistent throughout all your reports; right?
` A. I believe it is, and I can check,
`but --
` Q. Yeah, if you could clarify that just
`for the record so we know.
` A. Sure.
` Q. As you're looking for it, I mean,
`the way I understand that is if you ever
`introduce a particular claim construction for a
`particular claim element, you'll note it as
`such in your report; correct?
` A. Yes. So, I think that's also what I
`said yesterday. I used the plain and
`ordinary -- ordinary meaning of what a POSA
`would understand it, and in cases where I felt
`that required some explanation, I provided it.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I just want to check the -- hold on.
`I think that's in all three reports. It's
`definitely in the '298, it's in the '777, and
`it's in the '113, yes.
` MR. TYSON: Just for the
`record, can you clarify what, when you're
`
`Page 325
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`state that Archer teaches after a call
`initiates a call -- after a caller initiates a
`call --
` A. Excuse me for asking again, what
`paragraph again? 153 you said?
` Q. 151.
` A. 151. I'm on the wrong page. Okay.
`I -- I just want to read the context of what
`this says before I --
` Q. All right.
` A. And you can ask the question but --
` Q. Go ahead and read it first if you
`need to understand it.
` A. Okay. I've read that. And then
`Paragraph 151 you said; right?
` Q. Right.
` A. So -- okay.
` Q. So, in Archer, you discussed that
`the call signals are transmitted as analog or
`digital signals over a circuit-switched
`communication network; right?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So, within the transport of the
`circuit-switched network, you say it could be
`
`Page 324
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`answering, would have been in the '113.
` A. Okay. So the same statement, same
`analogous statement is in all three, which
`says, in my opinion, the prior art grounds
`discussed below match what a POSA would
`understand the plain and ordinary meaning of
`the petition claim terms to be when read in
`light of the '298 patent's claims, the
`specification, and the file history. Where
`relevant, I provide a discussion of what a POSA
`would understand the plain and ordinary meaning
`of certain claims to be.
` So, that's in every report on each
`of the three patents.
` Q. I want to turn to your '113
`declaration, Paragraph 151, Page 100.
` A. Excuse me. What page and paragraph?
` Q. Paragraph 151 in the '113 dec.
` A. And we're talking about the '113
`patent; right?
` Q. The '113 declaration.
` A. Right. But I mean, obviously,
`that's related to the '113 patent. Okay.
` Q. Here you have an opinion where you
`
`Page 326
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`analog or digital. You say Archer teaches
`that; right?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form, scope.
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And then you say, that network is
`coupled to converter 126 which converts the
`analog signals into a digital protocol.
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Is that right?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So, when the converter is receiving
`analog signals from the circuit-switched
`network, that's indicative that that's
`connected to an edge switch; correct?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form, scope.
` A. Not necessarily. I mean, there
`could be analogs in -- inside a network at the
`time of the invention. So it would be rare,
`but it's -- it's possible. And I believe
`Archer -- where did I put Archer? I don't know
`if I cite to it here, but Archer does say that,
`you know, networks are largely digital, which
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`Page 327
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`they were. But -- but there could be analog
`lines in them.
` Q. Right. So we just went over that
`word. The actual communication network could
`be analog or digital?
` A. Right.
` Q. But once it connects to the
`converter, it's connecting to it as an analog
`signal?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` Q. That's how you say Archer teaches
`it; right?
` A. I say it teaches it as it couples
`either with analog signals or digital signals.
` Q. You say it's coupled to a converter
`which converts the analog signals into a
`digital protocol. So you're explicit that
`analog signals are coming out of the
`communication network 118 to converter?
` A. No. You're reading it out of
`context. The first sentence before that says,
`the call signals are transmitted as analog or
`digital signals over circuit-switched
`
`Page 329
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. I think what I said yesterday was in
`a large, large percentage of cases, that would
`be true. But I said there could have been very
`small shops, you know, small countries, that
`still used old equipment that had analog
`interconnect between networks.
` It would have been very rare, but at
`the time of Archer, there could have still been
`some out there. But the fact remains, it could
`be analog or digital; so it could be both.
` Q. Right. But then you say Archer only
`teaches that the converter is only going to
`convert the analog signals into a digital
`protocol?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form. Asked and answered and characterizing
`the witness testimony.
` A. Yeah. So, it wouldn't convert
`digital signals to digital protocol because it
`doesn't have to. So it receives both types,
`and those signals that are analog, it has to
`convert to digital. Those signals that are
`digital, it does not have to convert. But it
`still processes them in the same way, besides
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` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`communication network.
` Q. Uh-huh.
` A. And then those signals that are
`analog are converted into the digital protocol.
`Obviously, the signals that are digital don't
`have to be converted into a digital protocol;
`they're already digital. So I was covering two
`cases in one sentence.
` Q. So if you have an analog signal
`coming out of the telecommunications network,
`yesterday we covered the ground that that would
`never connect to a tandem switch; correct?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` A. I don't remember covering that. I
`don't think I ever said that if something was
`analog, it had to be -- it could not be
`connected to a tandem switch.
` Q. Tandem switches communicate in
`digital protocols as of the date of the
`invention. A POSA would understand that;
`right?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
`
`Page 330
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`the fact it does not have to convert them.
` See, the next sentence says, the
`digital data is then routed to the packet-
`switched network to the server processor. So
`if I -- if I can parse this for you, the way
`you could read it is the call signals are
`transmitted as digital signals over the
`circuit-switched communication network, which
`is coupled to a converter. The digital data is
`then routed to the packet-switched network.
` And then I could have written a
`separate sentence that said, the call signals
`are trans -- also transmitted as -- or can also
`be transmitted as analog signals over the
`circuit-switched communication network.
` Q. Yeah. But you don't, don't you,
`because you said Archer teaches this?
` A. I wrote it in a different style.
`That's the intent of what I wrote, that there
`are two possible signals coming into the
`converter, digital and analog. The analog is
`converted to digital, and then everything's
`digital. And anything that's digital is then
`routed to the server processor. So that was
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`Page 331
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`the meaning of those three sentences taken
`together.
` Q. So a POSA at the time of the
`invention would not believe an analog
`connection coming out of the PSTN could be
`capable of -- strike that.
` At the time of the invention, any
`time you come out of the PSTN, you can only
`come out of via an edge switch; correct?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form, scope.
` A. You can exit the communications
`network, let's call it, through an edge switch.
`But in a situation where you have inter-
`connected networks, which is what they're
`talking about here, PSTN to IP, I don't
`consider it exiting the PSTN through an edge
`switch.
` So, if you're talking about exiting
`the PSTN to a telephone, then you do it through
`an edge switch. If you're talking about
`exiting one communications network to go into a
`second communications network, it does not have
`to come out of an edge switch. It can come out
`
`Page 333
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. That's a possible configuration.
`But the fact remains, of that class 5 switch
`that is private, it's privately owned, it's not
`part of the Public Switched Telephone Network.
`It doesn't switch traffic for the general
`public, so it's not part of the PSTN.
` So you would be leaving the PSTN
`over a tandem -- through a tandem switch to get
`to an edge device, as it's been defined.
` Q. A PBX and a class 5 switch were
`criticized in the claimed inventions; right?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
` A. The use of a PBX and a class 5
`switch in Wood -- let me check. I think I know
`where it is -- were criticized for -- were
`criticized at the bottom of column 1, yes.
` Q. So, then, just so we're on the same
`page, a POSA at the time of the invention would
`know in order to access the PSTN, it would
`first have to go through a class 5 switch?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
` A. Can you repeat the question?
`
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` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`of a tandem switch.
` Q. But then yesterday we talked about
`the fact that you -- there's no documentation
`out there at the time of the invention of any
`communication ever leaving a PSTN through a
`tandem switch.
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form, scope, and mischaracterizing the
`testimony.
` A. So, yesterday we were talking about
`communicating to edge devices, and to do it at
`edge devices, I said, I believe, that you
`typically go through edge switches, except in
`the rare case where you have a large enterprise
`which may connect directly into a tandem
`switch. I don't remember my testimony exactly,
`but that was the gist of it.
` Q. But that large enterprise would just
`be an example of a private class 5 switch;
`right?
` A. That would be an example of either a
`very large PBX or perhaps somebody owning a
`class 5 switch on the premise. It could be.
` Q. Right.
`
`Page 334
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` Q. At the time of the invention, in
`order to enter or exit the PSTN, a POSA would
`understand that you'd have to go through a
`class 5 switch?
` A. No, we just --
` MR. TYSON: Object. Object to
`the form.
` A. We just -- we just went through
`this. That if you went through a PBX, which
`was an edge device, you could go directly to a
`tandem switch in some configurations. And if
`you went through a privately owned class 5
`switch which, you know -- or a privately owned
`switch, it doesn't have to be a class 5 switch,
`you could also go directly to a tandem switch.
` Q. Well, it has to be a class 5 switch;
`we just covered that.
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form. Mischaracterizing the testimony.
` A. So, the edge device could be a PBX,
`or you brought up the case of a privately owned
`class 5 switch, which I said would work, but I
`never said it has to be a class 5 switch. It
`could be a class 5 switch, it could be a PBX.
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`Page 335
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` Q. But a PBX, by definition, connects
`to a class 5 switch?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form. Asked and answered.
` A. My understanding is that there were
`configurations with large PBXs and -- and
`sophisticated enterprises that could connect
`using SS7 directly into a tandem switch.
`That's what I had stated yesterday. That's
`still my belief today.
` Q. I'm going to introduce Exhibit 1032.
`It's already in the record. It's 1032 in each
`of the cases, except for the 01259 case, and
`it's 1132.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. Did you provide this definition of a
`PBX in your declaration?
` MR. TYSON: Where are you
`pointing to in the declaration?
` A. Yeah, I was going to ask the same
`question. If you point me to it, I can confirm
`it. I don't remember every citation I gave. I
`have this in my list of exhibits.
` Q. Right.
`
`Page 337
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`form.
` A. It's a dictionary, so it's -- it got
`definitions in it which I find useful, let's
`put it that way. Are they all correct? I
`don't know. But do I agree with them all? I
`don't know. But they -- I obviously found them
`useful. I see that I used it for defining
`circuit switching.
` MR. TYSON: Just for the
`record, is this a complete copy of Exhibit 1032?
` MR. MURPHY: No. This is an
`excerpt from for the PBX.
` MR. TYSON: Okay. You've
`removed Pages 3 to 12, and then whatever's
`after this?
` MR. MURPHY: Yeah. This is
`the full definition of a PBX.
` MR. TYSON: No, I understand
`that. But this is not a complete copy of the
`exhibit.
` MR. MURPHY: Okay.
` MR. TYSON: Okay.
` A. So, I don't know for a fact that I
`cited these exact pages. I may well have, but
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`Page 336
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. But I don't know what --
` Q. So you're relying on this as a
`definition of PBX; correct?
` A. I don't know. I would have to see
`where I used it. I don't remember every
`citation.
` Q. Well, why would you cite to an
`exhibit in each of your declarations if you
`weren't relying on the definition of it?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and argumentative.
` A. Like I said, I don't know where I
`cite to it or if I cite to it. I listed it as
`a -- in my declaration, but I don't remember
`every citation. So until I see where I cite
`it, I can't answer your question. If you know
`where I cited it, you can let me know.
` Q. Well, I think we can say what it is.
`It's a definition from the Newton's Telecom
`Dictionary from 1999; right?
` A. Uh-huh. Of a PBX.
` Q. That's a respected source; do you
`agree?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`
`Page 338
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`I don't see in here yet where I cited this with
`respect to a PBX.
` Again, if you can point me to
`somewhere in my report, or I can look for it.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. All right. For now, I want to
`direct you to the definition of a PBX.
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form. The witness is trying to look through
`his report, and I ask that you give him some
`time to do that.
` A. So, here I see where I talk about
`PBXs in Paragraph 91, but I do not cite this
`exhibit. So at least in that part, I did not
`rely on that definition of a PBX, which was
`where, I think, is the first time that I talk
`about PBXs. So, with that understood, you can
`ask your -- your question.
` Q. Is this an accurate definition of a
`PBX as a person of ordinary skill in the art
`would understand a PBX to be at the time of the
`invention?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope of the question.
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`Page 339
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. I have to read it.
` (Witness reviewing document.)
` MR. TYSON: Is there a Page 14
`to this exhibit? I was asking because this
`definition --
` MR. MURPHY: There is, but
`it's not relevant to --
` MR. TYSON: Well, the
`definition --
` MR. MURPHY: -- 620.
` MR. TYSON: -- of PBX central
`office trunk is on that page; so --
` MR. MURPHY: Right.
` MR. TYSON: -- this is
`incomplete.
` MR. MURPHY: But the def -- as
`far as this definition goes, this is a
`continuous page. This is on Page 620 of the
`underlying document. Page 621 of the
`underlying document was not in the exhibit.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. I read
`it. So what's the question?
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Do you agree with that definition?
`
`Page 341
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. Colloquially, yes.
` Q. Class 5 switch?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
` A. No. I disagree with that.
` Q. Or it could be an edge device --
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
` Q. -- that's connected to an edge
`switch?
` A. A PBX, as we've defined it, could be
`an edge device because it could connect to a
`class 5 switch. So, in that sense, it's not
`part of the PSTN, and it would be an edge
`device.
` Q. So why would you cite to this
`definition of PBX but not provide any
`documentation as to this other theory you have
`as to what a PBX could be?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope. He's already stated that you have
`not pointed to anywhere that he's relied on
`this definition in his declaration. If you
`want to do that, that would speed this up.
`
`Page 340
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
` A. I wouldn't say it's a definition. I
`would say it's a description of what a PBX is.
`But it does not say necessarily how it's hooked
`up or where it attaches to the telephone
`network or -- it's missing a lot of things, if
`you were providing a full, detailed definition.
` And I also do notice that there's a
`PBX central office trunk which may have shed
`more light on the connectivity piece that's not
`here.
` Q. All right. That definition was not
`cited in your exhibit either?
` A. Okay. Like I said, I'm not sure
`this definition was cited. I asked if -- I
`couldn't find it in the quick look I did.
`Again, it may be cited somewhere, but I -- I
`don't see it in this report.
` Q. So, a POSA would understand a PBX to
`be a small version of the phone company's
`larger central switching office; right?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and scope.
`
`Page 342
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
` A. So, again, I'll say the same thing.
`I'm not saying I didn't cite to it for a PBX,
`but I don't know where I did and what context.
`And there's nothing in here that says a PBX has
`to be connected by analog lines to an -- an
`edge switch.
` So, I don't have a problem with this
`description of a PBX. I think I --
` Q. Yesterday we talked about the local
`loops were analog.
` A. I said there were two types of local
`loops, analog and digital, explicitly. I said
`there are two types of local loops.
` Q. And just to be clear, a POSA at the
`time of the invention, if there was a
`connection coming in or out of the PSTN
`network, if it was analog, it would be -- one,
`it would be indicative that it would be going
`to an edge switch because it would be an end
`line; correct?
` MR. TYSON: Object to form and
`scope.
` A. I don't understand the question.
` Q. Like, local loops were typically --
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`Page 343
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`if you had an analog connection of anything
`associated with a PSTN --
` A. If you had an --
` Q. -- those were --
` MR. TYSON: Is that a
`question? Let him finish his question.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. Sorry.
` MR. TYSON: He's just making a
`statement.
` MR. MURPHY: Can you stop
`interrupting?
` MR. TYSON: Sure. If you
`start asking questions.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. At the time of the invention, would
`a POSA understand that a tandem switch
`communicated in a digital format?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` A. Most tandem switches communicated in
`digital format. In some cases, all tandem
`switches in a network communicated in digital
`format. There could have been some tandem
`switches in some small companies with old
`
`Page 345
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`coupling?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` A. No, I don't think there's anything
`that precludes 128 from being directly coupled
`to a converter. It shows it through a packet-
`switched network, but that's one embodiment.
` I don't think -- I don't think it
`would have to be that way. The converter
`converts to a digital packet protocol. There's
`nothing that would preclude it from sending it
`to a server directly.
` And then I say, server processors
`also couple to tandem switches in the PSTN.
`So, Archer discloses the PSTN. The PSTN has
`tandem switches. So, yes, I did say Archer
`discloses tandem switches.
` Q. You're saying Archer discloses
`tandem switches because it's inherent in the
`circuit-switched network?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the form
`and mischaracterizing his testimony.
` A. I said for two reasons. Archer's
`converter gateway is a tandem switch, and there
`
`Page 344
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`equipment that still used analog, especially at
`network boundaries. So SS7 network
`interconnect was not introduced as universally
`as SS7 within networks. It was introduced at a
`slower pace.
` Q. So, Archer doesn't explicitly teach
`a tandem switch, does it?
` MR. TYSON: Object to the
`form.
` A. So, I believe I cover this in the
`claims where we talk about tandem switches, the
`limitations of tandem switches.
` So, on Page 106 of the '113, it's
`part of the Paragraph 157, I state that the
`converter gateway is one of the switching
`facilities. And the way that the tandem switch
`is used in that claim is used in the same way
`that tandem switching facilities is used in
`claim 1.
` So that's where I'm saying that
`Archer discloses one place a tandem switch. I
`think we went through this yesterday also.
` Q. Right. But this is based on your
`opinion that the claims do not require direct
`
`Page 346
` DR. THOMAS F. LA PORTA
`are tandem switches in the PSTN.
` Q.