Willis - 3-1-2017
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`
`Page 1
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`IPR2016-01254/IPR2016-01257
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`Patent No: 8,457,113
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`v.
`
`FOCAL IP, LLC,
` Patent Owner.
`
`DEPOSITION OF EDWARD DEAN WILLIS
`Dallas, Texas
`Wednesday, March 1st, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`Daniel J. Skur, Notary Public and CSR
`Job No. 119615
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 1
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`
`Page 1
`
`IPR2016-01254/IPR2016-01257
`
`Patent No: 8,457,113
`
`v.
`
`FOCAL IP, LLC,
` Patent Owner.
`
`DEPOSITION OF EDWARD DEAN WILLIS
`Dallas, Texas
`Wednesday, March 1st, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`Daniel J. Skur, Notary Public and CSR
`Job No. 119615
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 1
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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`Willis - 3-1-2017
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`Page 2
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`March 1st, 2017
`9:43 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.
`
`Deposition of EDWARD DEAN WILLIS,
`held at the offices of Baker Botts LLP,
`2001 Ross Avenue, Dallas Texas, before
`Daniel J. Skur, Notary Public and Certified
`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of
`Texas.
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 2
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`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
` Baker Botts
` 101 California Street
` San Francisco, California 94111
` BY: Sarah Guske, Esq.
`
` Nelson Bumgardner
` Attorney(s) for Patent Owner
` 3131 West 7th Street
` Fort Worth, Texas 76107
` BY: John Murphy, Esq.
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
`Victor Siber, SiberLaw LLP (via teleconference)
`Hanna Madbak, SiberLaw LLP (via teleconference)
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 3
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED
`by and between the attorneys for the
`respective parties herein, that filing and
`sealing be and the same are hereby waived.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
`that all objections, except as to the form
`of the question, shall be reserved to the
`time of the trial.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
`that the within deposition may be sworn to
`and signed before any officer authorized to
`administer an oath, with the same force and
`effect as if signed and sworn to before the
`Court.
` - oOo -
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 4
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`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the start of
`tape labeled number 1 of the videotaped
`deposition of Dean Willis in the matter of
`Cisco Systems Incorporated versus Focal IP
`LLC, Case Number IPR2016-01254. This
`deposition is being held in Dallas, Texas,
`on March 1st, 2017, at approximately
`9:44 a.m. My name is Nathaniel Mollick.
`I'm a Legal Video Specialist for TSG
`Reporting Incorporated headquartered at 747
`Third Avenue, New York, New York. The
`court reporter is Dan Skur in association
`with TSG Reporting.
` Counsel, will you please introduce
`yourselves and state any agreements or
`stipulations into the record, after which
`the court reporter will swear in the
`witness.
` MS. GUSKE: Sarah Guske from Baker
`Botts LLP for petitioner Cisco Systems.
` MR. MURPHY: John Murphy from Nelson
`Bumgardner for patent owner, Focal IP.
` EDWARD DEAN WILLIS,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
` (9:43 a.m.)
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Good morning. Can you please state
`your full name for the record?
` A. My full name is Edward Dean Willis.
`I operate as Dean Willis in publications and
`industry standards.
` Q. So do you go by Mr. Willis?
` A. That's fine, or Dean.
` Q. I'm going to introduce a few
`exhibits that are already in the record for
`talking points.
` Exhibit 1002, which is your expert
`report on the '113 patent in the 1254 case; is
`that correct?
` A. It appears to be.
` (Exhibit 1002 introduced.)
` MR. MURPHY: Do you want paper
` copies?
` MS. GUSKE: I've got -- I've got
` one.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` Q. Also going to hand you Exhibit 1102
`which is your declaration of the '113 patent in
`the 1257 case.
` (Exhibit 1102 introduced.)
` A. Appears to be.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. And then just for logistics, is it
`correct that the 1254 report is identical to
`the 1257 report?
` A. Essentially, yes.
` Q. So today I'd like you to put aside
`the 1257 report. Let's focus on the 1254
`report.
` A. Very good.
` Q. If there's anything in the 1257
`report you need to turn to that's not in the
`1254 report, just let me know. You say
`"essentially," do you recall any differences?
` A. Couple --
` (Interruption by the reporter.)
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Do you recall any differences in the
`1257 from the 1254?
` A. The cover page and things that it
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`refers to are slightly different.
` Q. When you say "things that it refers
`to," what do you mean?
` A. I mean specifically which sets of
`which -- suit it refers to, so the technical
`content should be similar.
` Q. I'm also going to hand you Exhibit
`1001, the 1254 case, and identify this as the
`'113 patent.
` (Exhibit 1001 introduced.)
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Is this the patent that you wrote
`your declaration on?
` A. Yes, it appears to be.
` Q. And when you named your exhibits for
`the 1254, when you identified your exhibits in
`that case as 10XX, are those the same exhibits
`that are on the 1257 case as 11XX?
` A. Yes, I believe so.
` Q. So you are sitting here today to
`testify regarding your declarations that you
`filed in the 1254 and the 1257 case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` A. Not in an IPR.
` Q. What circumstances were you -- did
`you get your deposition taken?
` A. In civil court, legal actions,
`business related.
` Q. Personal matters?
` A. Corporate.
` Q. Have you provided an expert report
`on patent matters prior to these declarations
`in any other matter?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many of those type of
`declarations or expert reports have you done?
` A. I don't actually have a precise
`count. I've been doing review of patent
`material more or less full time for about ten
`years, so a number.
` Q. But you've never had your deposition
`taken regarding any of those expert reports
`regarding patentability?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Have you ever testified in a
`courtroom regarding your opinions on
`patentability?
`
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` A. No, I have not.
` Q. Just so you know as we go forward,
`if you ever need to take a break, just let me
`know. If you ever feel uncomfortable about
`anything, if you're feeling sick or anything
`else, just let me know. I just want you to
`understand the rules of the game since this is
`your first time getting your deposition taken
`in a setting like this.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. No problem. When were you
`approached regarding these IPR proceedings?
` A. Sometime early last year. I don't
`remember the exact date.
` Q. Who approached you?
` A. Counsel for the plaintiff here, so
`actually an attorney from I believe Cooley at
`the time.
` Q. Do you remember the attorney's name?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Do you know what entity has engaged
`you?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Who is that?
`
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` A. I have been retained by Cisco
`Systems through their current counsel at Baker
`Botts.
` Q. Are there any other entities other
`than Cisco that have engaged you related to
`this case?
` A. No.
` Q. Outside the attorneys from Baker
`Botts and Cooley, have you spoken to anyone
`else regarding the subject matter of these
`cases?
` A. Yes, I discussed the topic with my
`wife.
` Q. Is there anyone else?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you recall how much time you
`spent preparing your reports in this case?
` A. Yes. I believe I spent about
`20 hours preparing the report.
` Q. Around how many days did you work on
`your report?
` A. I worked on it over a period of
`months, a little bit at a time. So as far as
`solid days, that would -- probably zero solid
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`days, but two hours here, four hours there,
`that sort of thing.
` Q. Are you being compensated for your
`work in this case?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. How much?
` A. I bill at a rate of $300 per hour.
` Q. Did you have any assistance in
`writing your report?
` A. No. Assistance as outside help, I
`did collaborate with counsel on part of it.
` Q. Who did you collaborate with?
` A. Various attorneys for the plaintiff.
` Q. Do you recall any of their names?
` A. Well, with Sarah here on the
`preparation of the final report and with a
`number of other attorneys whose names I can't
`recall in the initial work.
` Q. Which portions of your report did
`you require assistance on?
` A. They primarily provided support on
`the legal reference such as the citations to
`patent law and background material.
` Q. How much of your opinions related to
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`the prior art are your original work?
` MS. GUSKE: Object to form. You can
` answer.
` A. Okay.
` MS. GUSKE: As long as you don't
` reveal attorney-client privilege
` information.
` A. I'd say all of the opinions are my
`original work. In many cases, we would take --
`I would, for example, start with a way of
`stating something, and we would work through it
`until it made sense to the particular attorney
`I was working with. So in some cases, the ways
`of rephrasing a statement that they suggested I
`adopted as my own opinion, but it's all my
`work.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Did you do anything to prepare to
`testify for the deposition today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what did you do?
` A. I prepared by reviewing the
`declaration, rereading the cited patents, and
`by spending -- had one conference call with
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`Sarah here, and spending a few hours going over
`the process and how we would --
` MS. GUSKE: Just be careful you
` don't reveal the content of our
` discussions.
` A. -- conduct today's hearing so I knew
`what to expect, yesterday.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. How many hours did you prepare?
` A. About ten hours.
` Q. Are you aware that there's other IPR
`proceedings that are related to the ones that
`you did your declaration on?
` A. I've heard that.
` Q. Are you aware that there was a
`deposition last week of a different expert?
` A. Yes. I am aware that there was a
`deposition.
` Q. Have you heard of Dr. Dr. LaPorto
`before?
` A. No, I haven't.
` Q. So you're not aware that Dr. LaPorto
`prepared a report that he was deposed on last
`week?
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` A. I am now.
` Q. So you never saw a transcript of the
`deposition of Dr. LaPorto that occurred last
`week?
` A. I did not see any transcript of a
`deposition.
` Q. Other than your declaration, what
`other specific documents did you review
`preparing for today's deposition?
` A. I reviewed the four patents
`involved, so reviewed the '113 patent as well
`as the four or five patents, the Burger,
`Alexander, Chang, and Archer patents that I
`used as prior art. I also scanned briefly the
`deposition from the defendant's expert.
` Q. What was that last part? You
`reviewed the deposition from the defendant's
`expert?
` A. Yes. So the -- in the cited
`material was a response to one of the office
`operations. I don't understand the whole legal
`proceedings, but there was a -- was it Bud?
` Q. Okay.
` A. What's his name?
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` Q. You reviewed the declaration of Bud
`Bates?
` A. Yes, declaration of Bud Bates, that
`is correct.
` Q. Did you review any other documents
`preparing for today's deposition?
` A. Yes. I did review one additional
`document. I looked at my -- one of my
`textbooks on SS7 just so I could remember some
`of the terms from the 1980s.
` Q. And why did you want to go back to
`the 1980s?
` A. Well, Bud's deposition talked about
`the state of the art of the Bell system in
`1984, and I wanted to refresh my vocabulary
`from then because that's been a while.
` Q. You said you reviewed one of your
`textbooks. Which textbook are you referring
`to?
` A. I don't actually remember. It was a
`telecommunications textbook that was sitting on
`my shelf.
` Q. You're the author of it?
` A. Oh, no. It's one from classes that
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`I had in school.
` Q. Is that textbook one of the exhibits
`in your report?
` A. No, it is not.
` Q. Will you turn to page 7 of your
`report? Looks like the page numbering is kind
`of inconsistent, so I would go with the page
`numbers -- if we refer to page numbers that's
`listed on like the stamp at the bottom.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Are you looking at the Exhibit 1002?
`Just want to make sure you're on the 1254
`declaration so we're both working from the same
`one.
` A. I am.
` MS. GUSKE: I was just going to tell
` him it's the stamp at the bottom, sorry.
` MR. MURPHY: Yes.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Going through page 9, looks like you
`have Exhibit Numbers 1001 through 1045 that you
`cite to; is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Have you reviewed each one of these
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`exhibits when you prepared your report?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review every page of each
`exhibit?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review every page of the
`Exhibit 1007?
` A. No.
` Q. How would you describe your review
`of Exhibit 1007?
` A. I went through the file history of
`the '113 patent to the extent necessary to get
`a rough understanding of any objections that
`might have come up during the prosecution and
`changes to the filing that might have been
`made, in particular around narrowing or
`reconstruction of claims that they might have
`done.
` Q. Are you a named inventor on any U.S.
`patents?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. So you're familiar with the way
`prosecution works to get a patent issued?
` A. Only -- only from an inventor's
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 18
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`point of view. I haven't been through all of
`the detailed process and the filing.
` Q. How many patents are in your name?
` A. At last count, I believe eight.
` Q. What type of subject matter do they
`cover?
` A. Networking, telecommunications,
`multimedia, Internet.
` Q. Did you cite to any of your own
`patents in your report?
` A. I did not.
` Q. Why not?
` A. They were not critical to explaining
`the subject matter of the report.
` Q. Did you review every page of
`Exhibit 1008?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. So you did a cursory review of
`Exhibit 1008?
` MS. GUSKE: Object to form,
` misstates prior testimony. You may answer.
` A. I'm sorry, could you repeat the
`question?
` (Record read.)
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 19
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` MS. GUSKE: Same objection. Go
` ahead.
` A. Yes, that would be a fair statement.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Did you analyze any of the office
`action responses in Exhibit 1008?
` A. Not in great detail. I did have
`some interesting notes on definitions, I
`believe, from that prosecution history.
` Q. What do you mean you had
`"interesting notes"?
` A. I believe I cited one of the
`definitions that came out about switching
`facility in my deposition -- or in my document
`here, so I think it's on about page 89.
` Q. And did you review, like, the office
`action response where you made those notes at?
` A. I can't be sure at this point. It's
`been over a year since I looked at it.
` Q. That was not one of the documents
`that you reviewed again in preparing for this
`deposition?
` A. No. I relied on my excerpts from it
`that were in the declaration. I misspoke, I
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 20
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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`Page 21
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`said over a year. It's been almost a year
`since I looked at it. I'd like to correct
`that.
` Q. Did you do your own prior art
`search?
` A. Yes, I did some prior art search. I
`did not -- the report does not entirely rely on
`my prior art search. I also considered prior
`art that was proposed by counsel. I may have
`returned to firm. I don't know.
` Q. Can you identify which of the
`exhibits on here were exhibits that you
`identified independently without counsel?
` A. No, actually I can't. I know a lot
`of these are references that I rely on
`frequently, but they're frequently used in the
`industry, so someone else might have actually
`suggested them before I did.
` Q. Are you aware of any other prior art
`that you consider better reference than Burger,
`Archer, Chang, or Alexander?
` MS. GUSKE: Object to form,
` compound. Go ahead and answer.
` A. Yes, actually. Depending on what
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 21
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`you -- where you like to draw prior art from.
`There's a lot of work in the publication area,
`reports that have come out of companies like
`Hewlett-Packard and Siemens that touches on the
`subject area, much of which I consider to be
`very descriptive and perhaps even fully
`anticipatory of '113 patent. There's also work
`that was done in the IETF in standards that I
`think is strongly influential. I cite come of
`that in the declaration. Now, I am unaware of
`any other patents that I think are better as
`pieces of prior art than the ones that are
`cited here, although there are certainly very
`likely to be some. There are many patents in
`the area.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. When you refer to Hewlett-Packard
`and Siemens documents, are you referring to
`public documents prior to May 2000?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. Did you cite those in your report?
` A. Several of them are, in fact, cited.
`The -- when I talk in the document history or
`the background of the field, I refer to at
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
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`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`least the HP web-in work which is a web-based
`SCP which was cited in one of the IETF RFCs as
`prior art that leads to the suggestion in the
`IFC -- in the IETF that a standard for that
`interoperation is required as a number of
`companies, Hewlett-Packard and Siemens
`included, had developed on their own
`proprietary systems that could not fully
`interoperate, and the reason that you want to
`have an industry standard is so that products
`from competing vendors can interoperate
`successfully. So the work was sufficiently
`advanced in the public form of the IETF that we
`were seeking to develop a standard for it.
` Q. Can you identify which exhibit
`you're referring to?
` A. Let me look. Let's see here. Ah,
`in particular, I would like to point
`Exhibit 1037, RFC 2458, which was titled Toward
`the PSTN Internet Internetworking Pre-PINT
`Implementations from 1998. The PINT working
`group was one of two working groups in the IETF
`chartered to explore the requirement for
`standards and to develop standards in the area,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 23
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`and one of their first deliverables was
`essentially a survey document on preexisting
`work, and that document was finalized in 1998.
`They arguably started it well before the
`publication date, so there's substantial public
`discourse in the open forum of the IETF even
`prior to that publication date.
` Q. So based on the Siemens, HP
`documents, and the IETF, this one document
`encapsulates all of that?
` A. I believe it encapsulates the
`majority of it. I also cite the paper which I
`believe is from the HP labs which is
`Exhibit 1036 from Colin Low on integrating
`communication services, and there is a -- cited
`here. There he actually had -- ah, yes,
`Exhibit 1010, also from Colin Low, the Internet
`Telephony Red Herring from 1996.
` Q. So besides Exhibit 1010, 1036, 1037,
`did you identify any other prior art references
`that are as good as Burger Archer Chang and
`Alexander?
` MS. GUSKE: Object to form,
` misstates prior testimony. Go ahead.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 24
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` A. Well, depends on your definition of
`"as good." Many people like to use patent
`references in these discussions because they're
`concise and self-contained and easy to work
`from, so that definition of good generally
`appeals to counsel. I like these references.
`There are probably many other references that I
`could have cited here, but we didn't include
`any.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. For Exhibits 1010, 1036 and 1037,
`why did you not provide a patentability opinion
`in those reference?
` MS. GUSKE: Sorry. Object to form,
` and to the extent that it reveals attorney
` communications, I'll instruct you not to
` answer.
` A. To the extent it reveals attorney
`communications, I do not -- don't answer? So
`no answer on that question; is that correct?
` MS. GUSKE: That's correct.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. For Exhibits 1010, 1036 and 1037,
`were those documents that you became aware of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 25
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`through counsel?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you identify those independently
`without counsel?
` A. Yes. I did identify those
`independently from counsel. Although they may
`have also found them. They're well known.
`Everyone in the industry reads the RFC series
`and can follow the citation list on it, but I
`actually participated in the PINT working group
`in the IETF so I was involved, although I did
`not contribute to that particular article or
`that particular RFC.
` Q. What does the PINT terminology stand
`for?
` A. So the -- PINT is an acronym, if
`I'm -- protocols in Internet networking
`telephony or something like that, but the basic
`idea there was to enable telephone switching
`systems, the things that switch telephone calls
`as opposed to the packet switching fabrics, to
`make routing requests and call processing
`requests from an Internet type device as
`opposed to a more traditional SCP, so we're
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 26
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`working on replacing the TCAP protocol which is
`a convoluted older telecom protocol with a
`modern Internet protocol, basically something
`web-based, so that it would be easier to
`develop applications. A web server costs a lot
`less than an SCP.
` Q. I want to understand a little bit
`about your background. I think you have -- if
`you need to refer to them, I think you have
`your own write-up in your report on it.
` A. Uh-huh. Sure. Let's see where I
`put that.
` MS. GUSKE: Do you have the page
` number for him?
` A. That might be -- make less noise as
`I flip through it. Section 2, wasn't it?
`Wait. No, it's right here at the beginning.
`It's before the -- okay. Got it, like page 2
`and 3.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. So that time period from 1995
`through 2000, can you walk me through what you
`were doing in your career and what type of
`technology you're working on, who it was with?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 27
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`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` A. Yes. So in that time frame, I spent
`the first part of that really working with a
`consulting company called Paranet, and we were
`doing systems and network integration for a
`number of companies ranging from defense to
`telecommunications. We were running data
`networks, in part, for EDS and other things. I
`spent personally a lot of that time at MCI as
`essentially a contract engineer on developing
`systems for MCI. Paranet was then bought by
`Sprint, and I spent some time working within
`the Sprint system on developing their products,
`both in terms of delivering telephone services
`and in network management, and then I
`transitioned from there into MCI where I became
`the advisory engineer responsible for designing
`voice-over IP systems for MCI.
` Q. Were those the same voice-over IP
`systems that were described in Archer?
` A. Very similar systems. There were a
`lot of ways to do these things, a lot of ways
`to describe them, but in many cases, you have
`convergent evolution. A lot of people came up
`with the same sorts of solutions about the same
`
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
`time. We were also very active at MCI in
`pushing equipment manufacturers like our
`partners at Nortel and at the time DSC and
`Cisco to develop products that we wanted to
`deploy in order to generate revenue from MCI's
`business of handling telephone calls. MCI had
`also been instrumental in developing
`intelligent call processing systems very
`similar to the Bellcore AIN systems.
` There were substantial differences
`in some ways, but again, you have convergent
`evolution in that area. So MCI had their DAP
`system which is much like the approach that
`Bellcore used, and we also worked some with
`British Telecom. There was a period where we
`thought we were merging with British Telecom,
`and I spent some time analyzing BT's solution
`which they called the NUP that had the same
`fundamental architecture of a backend server
`essentially controlling service delivery from a
`traditional telecom switch.
` MR. MURPHY: Mind if we go off the
` record? I got people I want to dial in, do
` all this.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 29
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`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3-1-2017
` MS. GUSKE: Sure.
` VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off record at
` 10:21 a.m.
` (Recess held.)
` VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back on record
` at 10:46 a.m.
`BY MR. MURPHY:
` Q. Mr. Willis, do you understand that
`the priority date of the challenged patent is
`May 4th, 2000?
` A. That sounds right. Let's see here.
`Double-check it. I believe so, yes.
` Q. So when we discuss the state of the
`art, do you understand that we'll be discussing
`it through the knowledge of a person of
`ordinary skill in the art as of the priority
`date of May 2000?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. And as we move forward in the
`deposition, if I refer to the date of the
`invention, do we have an understanding that
`that will be May 4th, 2000?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that a POSA refers to a person
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. v. FOCAL IP, LLC
`FOCAL IP, LLC EX2021 - 30
`Willis Deposition Transcript
`IPR2016-01257
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` Willis - 3
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