`____________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`FOCAL IP, LLC,
`Patent Owner.
`____________
`
`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
`____________
`
`Record of Oral Hearing
`Held: September 19, 2017
` ______________
`
`
`
`
`Before SALLY C. MEDLEY, JONI Y. CHANG, and BARBARA
`A. PARVIS, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
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`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
`
`
`
`APPEARANCES:
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
`Wayne Stacy, Esquire
`Baker Botts, LLP
`101 California Street
`Suite 3600
`San Francisco, California 94111
`
`
`
`
`
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`
`Tom C. Cecil, Esquire
`
`Brent N. Bumgardner, Esquire
`
`John Murphy, Esquire
`
`Nelson Bumgardner
`
`3131 West 7th Street
`
`Suite 300
`
`Fort Worth, Texas 76107
`
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing Tuesday,
`
`September 19, 2017, commencing at 3:30 p.m. at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
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`Patent 8,457,113 B2
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
`JUDGE PARVIS: This is an oral argument in IPR 2016-01254
`
`and 01257. The challenged patent in these proceedings is U.S. Patent
`Number 8,457,113 B2.
`
`Each of petitioner Cisco Systems, Incorporated, and patent owner
`Focal IP, LLC, will have 30 minutes total to present its arguments.
`
`At this time I'd like counsel to introduce themselves, your partners,
`and guests starting with petitioner.
`
`MR. STACY: Wayne Stacy and Jay Schuller.
`
`JUDGE PARVIS: For the patent owner, is it the same?
`
`MR. BUMGARDNER: Yes. The same, Your Honor.
`
`JUDGE PARVIS: Thank you. So any time you are ready, counsel
`for petitioner, you may proceed.
`
`MR. STACY: Thank you. I'll reserve 15.
`
`So I wanted to -- with the shorter time, we agreed to try to
`minimize any duplications. So I'm going to focus on the issues that are
`mostly unique to the Cisco-only petitions. One of the first things I
`wanted to touch on was the disclaimer issue. Just two minutes on this. I
`wanted to show a couple of things that may have been lost during some
`of the presentations today.
`
`So looking at the '113 patent. The material that was presented by
`patent owner earlier seemed to confuse the concept of edge device and
`edge switch. And they ran the two things together time after time. And
`you see it in their construction.
`
`They are actually two very different things in the patent. And the
`material, if you recall, that patent owner went through and said, Here's
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`one, two, three, four, five, six different disparagements of edge switches
`and edge devices. And when you look at it, they always ran those
`together.
`
`The material they point to is in column two of the '113 patent or
`the equivalent. And the primary paragraph that patent owner relies on
`talks about edge devices over and over. You don't find a mention of edge
`switches. And in fact, it doesn't even talk about all edge devices. It talks
`about two specific types of edge devices. And I highlighted them there --
`it's not very pretty -- but edge devices, such as phones and PBXs.
`
`So what they're talking about there, they are disclaiming having the
`ability to on my phone dial star 81 or the PBX that a company might
`have, programming it in there. So it's a very specific edge device that
`they are attacking.
`
`And then when you look at the rest of the disclosure that they kind
`of don't really touch a lot, look at some of the other things that they're
`really disparaging.
`
`Again, from column 2, in other words, past systems for
`provisioning, meaning addition, modification, or control of telephone
`features, require the subscriber to make the feature selection through the
`telephone business office. Central office workers would then implement
`the provisioning under request of the business office.
`
`So this is when I wanted a specific T1 line. I wanted something
`turned on. I'd pick up the phone, I call, and they'd provision it from the
`headquarters. That's the kind of thing that they were attacking and
`disparaging here. This isn't about switches -- edge switches versus -- or I
`should leave it at edge switches.
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`And when they come down to the initial solution, what do they
`
`describe as their solution after laying out these problems?
`
`The solution, very broadly, a system for allowing a subscriber to
`remotely control features is described herein along with various
`telephone features that may be programmed into the system.
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`That's their grand solution.
`
`And in the summary of the invention portion, they keep going on.
`Notice this piece of the disparagement has nothing to do with edge
`switches. It's a direct third-party control means the ability to provision
`the third-party features is directly available to a subscriber, eliminating
`the need to go through the telephone company -- telco -- business office.
`That relates back to the disparagement above it about having to call in
`and ask somebody, can you give me access to these types of features.
`
`But then right under that, notice this is what all of the law talks
`about having multiple embodiments. And the reason you've got cases
`like fast cath that say even if you have a single embodiment, that's not a
`disclaimer. The federal circuit's been very clear.
`
`And right under this solution, look what they talk about. In one
`embodiment the system includes -- you can see that embodiment, and
`then right underneath that, in another embodiment -- in this other
`embodiment, that's the first time you get this tandem access controller.
`
`So there is no disclaimer. There are multiple embodiments. And
`that was the question that had come up earlier.
`
`The disparagement is not about edge switches. The disparagement
`that's here, the only thing that could be there, is on an actual phone or on
`an actual PBX or having to call in to the business office. That term is not
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`to be confused with central office. And if I have to call in, that's not
`good.
`Those types of things have some disparagement. It has nothing to
`
`do with what they're trying to do because their construction eliminates
`edge switches and edge devices. And you have to look at those two
`words very differently because an edge device -- their expert defined it,
`they've got it in the patents -- it's a phone. Something that the subscriber
`uses, that I would use. An edge switch is something in the PSTN.
`
`So as you look through their testimony and think about it, make
`sure you keep those two terms clear.
`
`The last piece -- I'll add on this and I'll move on -- claim
`construction, is this same concept shows up in their claims. They didn't
`stop with the specification. So when you look at claim 7 of the '113
`patent, it talks about this coupled to the switching facility, which is a
`PSTN tandem switch with telecommunications network. You wouldn't
`need to define it with a clause if that's what you clearly disavowed.
`
`And then claim 22, wherein the communications network
`comprises a network of switching facilities performing a Class 4
`switching function. Class 4 switching function is tandem, at least in the
`old world.
`
`So their claims, their spec, all make the big distinction between
`switching facility and tandem and this whole disavowal doesn't really
`hold together when you look at all of the record.
`
`So with regard to the prior art, I'm going to focus on Burger. I
`think that's the one reference we haven't talked about today. So to set the
`context for how we're going to address Burger.
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`So you'll recognize this picture as Figure 1 from the shared
`
`specification for the '113 patent in this particular instance. And what
`we're going to focus on for Burger is a call from a subscriber, hooked to
`the PSTN, over to through a packet network through an IP network. So
`let me show you how this call goes.
`
`It starts with your person 20, here, making the call to the central
`office. Then that call goes to the PSTN tandem switch. From there to
`the tandem access controller, and if you notice that double-headed line
`from the tandem access controller to the web. So there's your packet
`network with the web. So I've come from my circuit switch network, I'm
`in my packet network, and then I go from -- through the web out to my
`called party, the subscriber there on the end. And if you look at Figure 2,
`it shows VoIP expressly on there in a slightly different arrangement.
`
`But notice the flow here. I go from my caller to my central office
`to my Class 4 type switch, then out to the controller, through the packet
`network, the web, and out to my IP phone or my IP device.
`
`Now I'm going to show you Burger Figure 2. So if you look at
`Burger Figure 2 in the bottom right-hand corner, we have a caller 88.
`Just a standard phone. The call goes out to a central office. You see that
`central office is 92. And this is important to know where we're going
`inside. The cloud here is the entire PSTN. So, you know, you're seeing a
`few switches in there, but the cloud is the PSTN.
`
`I connect the call from my local office 92 up to another switch in
`the PSTN, telco 94. It goes from telco 94 to the ESP. That's the
`controller. It goes from my ESP to the packet-based network. From the
`packet-based network to my packet-based receiver, my IP phone, my
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`computer, whatever is on that side.
`
`You are going to notice those two flows look almost identical. The
`key here is telco 94. Patent owner has refused to acknowledge what that
`switch really is. I think in the Cisco -- I guess the initial decisions on
`Cisco, the board pointed out that the art that patent owner was relying on
`was from 1984, pre-breakup of AT&T, when everything was a strict
`pyramid. And that's not how the system works. In fact, it's not how the
`system worked then.
`
`The phrase "central office," patent owner tries to use it
`interchangeably with edge switch. Central office is actually a building.
`You see them around in rural America. There was one next door to
`where I live on a farm. Brick building, no windows. And what does it
`have in it? It always has a Class 5 switch in it, and it may have a Class 4
`switch in it, or it may have a hybrid switch in it.
`
`But what you see here very clearly that Burger was showing 92 as
`an edge switch and 94 as a tandem switch. Now, 94 also -- that building
`may also have edge functionality as it hooks over to path 132 to that
`modem. But 94 is both a tandem and an edge. It could be two separate
`switches in the same physical building, or it could be a hybrid. But what
`we're looking at is the functionality implemented in this call. And what
`we're interested in is the call from the PSTN device, the caller with the
`standard phone over to the packet-based subscriber. I think 86 is the
`whole box. So that's what we're looking at.
`
`So look again at what Burger Figure 1 shows. The exact same
`thing. I've got a phone going to an edge device. They call that one the
`CO. Goes from the CO to another switch that's got Class 4 functionality.
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`Goes from the Class 4 switch into the controller, which is the ESP. From
`the ESP to the packet-based network, which is the web. And from the
`web into 26. Almost identical. In fact, they are identical.
`
`So the question may come up, you know, as a CO, only an edge
`switch. And first, we see definitely it's not from Burger, but there's
`plenty of other art in the record. Chang is a great example on that.
`
`So Chang -- notice labels various central offices, but notice the
`numbers on it: 11E, 11T, edge or tandem. So Chang is actually
`expressly showing that a central office can have tandem functionalities.
`
`And if you look at Chang, this is column 7, it talks about each
`central office type provides switch network connections and then
`specifically calls out 11T as tandem switching offices.
`
`So every time patent owner stands up and says central office is
`only an edge switch, it's just not correct. It may be an edge switch, but it
`may be a lot more. But a central office is a building. You have to look at
`the functionality. And the functionality in Burger shows it to be a tandem
`switch.
` Why does that matter? Well, first of all, if the Board
`reverses its initial claim -- or stands on its initial claim construction, none
`of it matters. They don't dispute the switching facility limitation. So
`what matters is if the Board reverses its initial claim construction. And in
`this particular instance Burger shows the controller hooked to a tandem
`switch.
`
`So quickly, I'll move on to talk about the only other real complaint
`they have. The only complaint they have about Burger is the call
`connection limitation: Is there a call connected?
`
`JUDGE PARVIS: You are at about 15 minutes.
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`MR. STACY: And it's an interesting argument on their side,
`
`looking at Burger, the description of Figure 2 shows expressly that
`Burger's Figure 2 is for communications from a PSTN to Internet or
`Internet to PSTN device. So it's specifically addressing communications
`across both types of networks. And it shouldn't be surprising from the
`actual Figure 2, I mean the point is to make a call from that phone over to
`that other device.
`
`And then sticking with Burger, you can see in the actual figures the
`call connection across from PSTN to an IP is clearly described in several
`places. 218 connect the caller and subscriber for two-way
`communication upon authorization.
`
`And then patent owner, I think maybe accidently, clips too much
`out of their -- one of their demonstrative or one of their pieces of their
`brief, they -- instead of representing all of Figure 220, they clip the top
`piece and say there's no call connection. But this is a conditional piece
`up top. And then if you see down at the bottom of 220, upon subscriber
`authorization, the ESP connects the caller and subscriber for two-way
`communication.
`
`So it's absolutely connected. In fact, Burger discloses two
`different methods of connecting across both networks. One is a one-way
`procedure, which is a call screening; and the other one is the one we
`agree about, the two-way connection. And they just seem to ignore that
`one. But there's a one-way and a two-way.
`
`The last thing I'll leave you with Burger, and then I'll reserve the
`rest of the time, is that patent owner seems to focus or believe that Burger
`is just one embodiment, and that's call screening. But that's not true.
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`Burger has several different embodiments.
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`What it is showing is a call control feature that sets between a
`PSTN network and an IP network. It's setting in the middle to achieve
`the goal that patent owner said right in its summary of invention it
`wanted to do, which was allow remote control of call features. And it
`happens that that remote control is hooked directly to a tandem switch as
`illustrated in Burger. It doesn't have to be. It's only necessary if the
`Board reverses its initial claim construction.
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`With that, I'll reserve the rest of my time. Thank you.
`
`JUDGE PARVIS: Thank you.
`
`MR. CECIL: Just a quick point about claim construction. So in
`column 1 of the '113 patent, which I pulled up because petitioner was
`discussing it in his presentation. In column 1, lines 59 to 67, we talk
`about an edge switch, and we say why an edge switch is problematic, that
`when the problem with these devices, because they are connected
`through an edge switch, transmission losses and impairments occur.
`
`Then in column 2, lines 40 through 55, we talk about edge devices.
`And in that instance we do first say that phones and PBXs are examples
`of edge devices. But then we talk generally about edge devices -- before
`Mr. Stacy said it was six, but it's seven -- we have seven critical
`statements about edge devices.
`
`Furthermore, in column 5, we say the TAC is connected inside the
`PSTN in the sense that it is not an edge device such as a PBX or a central
`office switch.
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`What's the central office switch in this scenario? Well, we look
`back at column 1. We say the problem was that optional features were
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`provided by a local self-service telephone company through the edge
`switch at the central office. So in this instance the central office switch is
`an edge switch.
`
`We're critical of both the edge switch and the edge device. We
`make both those statements repeatedly about how those were wrong in
`the patent.
`
`MR. BUMGARDNER: Your Honor, I'm going to try to be quick
`here. I just heard that telco 94 is both a tandem and an edge switch or
`just a building. That is pure attorney argument. It is not found in the
`petition, in any of the grounds that they have challenged. It's not there. I
`would challenge him to come back up here and show us where in the
`grounds of the petition for the limitation call processing system coupled
`to a switching facility that they have this. It's not in there. And so this is
`what we've been dealing with. Just new argument after new argument.
`
`Now, what Burger shows clearly -- and this is our expert's
`declaration in the 1254 case at page 37, paragraph 69. It clearly shows
`ESP 60, which is what they say is the call processing system connected
`via line 100 to telco's central office.
`
`Here is Cisco's allegations about Burger from the petition. Let's
`take a look at that first sentence. This is on page 35 of the petition: As a
`result Burger ESP 60 and its processing unit 62 would necessarily be
`coupled to switching facilities in the form of tandem switches, SCPs, and
`STPs in the PSTN through circuit switch interface 64, link 100, and
`central office 94.
` So what they're saying here is there's a indirect
`connection between ESP 60 in a tandem switch, and as shown in the
`drawing and as they admitted right here in the petition, it goes through a
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`central office switch. So for him to come up here and say, Aw, it's a
`hybrid switch. Aw, it's a building. Aw, it's really a tandem switch. None
`of that's in the petition. It's just not there. It's completely new.
`
`So let's talk about ESP 60. At Burger column 4, line 35 through
`41, it says that Burger uses DID lines to connect over line 100. And our
`expert says here on page 37 of his declaration: Preferably interconnection
`100 is the T1 line that carries DID, direct inward dial lines. That's a
`quote out of Burger.
`
`A POSA would understand that Burger teaches its purported
`controller as a direct connection to an edge switch. Further, a POSA
`would understand that Burger's use of a T1 line carrying DID lines to
`indicate a connection between an edge device and an edge switch. We
`laid it right out there in the response. This was never rebutted.
`
`Furthermore, Burger says that the preferred embodiment for the
`interface that ESP 60 uses to connect to the circuit switch network is
`TDMA circuit switch interface, right here, box 64. Burger says that a
`preferred embodiment of that is a natural microsystems AGT1 interface.
`That's Burger column 4, lines 5 through 9. And as our expert said, that a
`POSA would understand that this natural microsystem AGT1 interface is
`number 1. A PC circuit card that interfaces one T1 carrying 24 channels
`with a PC. Number 2 was designed to place and receive calls and
`perform voice functions. And Number 3 is an edge device designed to
`connect to a rented or a leased line from a local exchange carrier and
`interface with a telephony company's edge switch/central office. And 4 is
`not designed to interface or connect to a tandem switch.
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`Again, right there in our response, completely unrebutted in their
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`reply. They don't address either one of these passages from Burger. But
`yet they did appear today to start telling you all this different stuff. It's
`not in their petition. It's not in their reply. So this is what we've been
`dealing with in this case.
`
`So quite clearly ESP 60 is connected to a central office. That is
`their own allegation from the petition, and that is what our expert has
`opined on that has gone unrebutted.
`
`Now, they have five theories for Burger alone as to how a call-
`processing system coupled to a switching facility is satisfied. The first
`one is really kind of interesting because they say Berger's ESP 60 is both
`the call processing system and the switching facility. But yet these two
`things have to be coupled together.
`
`And so under their theory, I guess it's coupled to itself. That really
`doesn't make a lot of sense to us, but they didn't address that in their reply
`either.
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`Furthermore, ESP 60 is connected to circuit switch network via
`central office 94. That is the disclaimed configuration.
`
`Their second theory, on page 33 of the 1254 petition, says that
`Berger's central office 94 is the switching facility. Again, that is the
`disclaimed configuration.
`
`The third theory, on page 34 and 35 of the petition, is the one I just
`showed you, where they say it's indirectly connected to a tandem switch
`through the central office. Again, that's the disclaimed configuration.
`
`The fourth theory that they have on page 53 of the petition in the
`1254 case is this let's unplug ESP 60 from the central office and plug it
`into a tandem switch.
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`So I'd like to point you to our expert's declaration, which is on
`
`page 52 of Exhibit 2002 in the 1254 proceeding. And our expert squarely
`contradicts this theory. He says a person -- petitioner says that a person
`of ordinary skill would have found it obvious to couple Berger's ESP 60
`to SCP switching facilities through SS7 signaling channels in order to
`route calls over the PSTN.
`
`This theory, however, fails because a POSA would understand that
`ESP 60 does not support SS7 signaling. ESP 60 is clearly disclosed as an
`edge device connected to an edge switch in the form of central office 94.
`ESP 60 -- I'm sorry.
`
`And then he goes through the exemplary connection of the DID
`lines as being indicative of an edge switch connection to an edge device.
`And he says: This is standard voice traffic that does not involve SS7
`signaling. ESP would not work if coupled to a tandem switch because it
`would not understand SS7 signaling. A POSA would therefore not be
`motivated to connect ESP 60 to the alleged switching facilities through
`SS7 signaling channels. So that's laid out quite clearly in our response.
`I'm not sure they even address that theory.
`
`The fifth theory is they say that you should couple Burger's ESP 60
`to Alexander. This is another obviousness combination. Let me just find
`Alexander. So what the petitioners are saying is, if you don't think that
`Burger shows a call-processing system coupled to a switching facility,
`then you've got a call-processing system that's call manager 26.
`
`The page I'm referencing is page 39 of the petition in the 1254
`case. They say Alexander's got a call-processing system, and here are
`some candidate switching facilities which you could take Burger's ESP
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`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
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`60, replace call manager 26A with ESP 60, and then all of a sudden it's
`going to be connected to the switching facilities in Alexander.
`
`So there's problems with this. First of all, you will note that the
`box with the dotted line here is the PSTN. So the first alleged switching
`facilities, the gateways and the PBX, are nothing more than edge devices
`that quite clearly connect to the central office within the PSTN. So
`again, that's the disclaimed prior art configuration.
`
`Then they say, well, if it's not the gateway or the PBX, we'll try the
`Dallas central office as being the candidate for the switching facility.
`Well, that's a disclaimed configuration as well. There are other
`arguments as to why these combinations don't work, but I just wanted to
`focus on the diagram here.
`
`Then they say, well, if it's not the central office or the gateway or
`the PBX, let's try the long-distance network. Well, the problem with that,
`as you see, is the call manager has to go through gateway PBX and
`central office before it ever reaches the long-distance network. So again,
`that is the prior art configuration that we talked about in the background
`of the patent, and that was disclaimed.
`
`So I'll just point out that these allegations regarding Alexander are
`rebutted by our expert. This is page 54 of Exhibit 2022. He starts there,
`and he talks about their allegations. Let me see if I can find it here. The
`last sentence here I want to focus on. They say that these connections
`between ESP 60 and these alleged switching facilities in Alexander
`would be made using SS7 signaling. And he responds: Moreover, to the
`extent petitioner claims that such connection could be facilitated using
`SS7, there is no disclosure that ESP 60 is equipped to send, receive, or
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`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
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`comprehend SS7 signaling.
`
`I'm pretty sure they didn't rebut this part of our response either. So
`we have tackled all of their obviousness combinations head on. Our
`expert has addressed all of them.
`
`And as we have shown you through our motion to strike, when we
`got their reply they changed all these theories. And it's not fair to us
`because we've only had the chance to address what is in the petition.
`
`Lastly, I would note that Cisco also relies on Archer. Here is page
`58 of our expert's declaration in the 2022 proceeding. You've heard it
`from me, but here it is from our expert. A POSA would not believe that
`simply unplugging the alleged call-processing system in Archer from the
`lines that run between converters 126, 132A, and an edge switch, then
`reconnecting these elements to a different switch in the PSTN -- for
`example, a tandem switch -- would be a successful endeavor.
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`Notably, while call signaling such as SS7 is used, for the PSTN
`setup calls, call signaling like SS7 does not pass beyond an edge switch
`to an edge device like converters 126 and 132.
`
`There's no reason for one to believe that Archer's converters would
`understand SS7 or other signaling necessary to communicate with an
`SCP or an STP.
`
`So I'm going to pass this over to Mr. Murphy, but I would just
`encourage the Board to really look at what's been alleged in the petition,
`carefully consider our response, and you will see that most of the
`allegations that we rebut from the petition, they then change them in the
`reply, and it's really been a moving target, but we have squarely
`addressed the allegations in the petition.
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`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
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`MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Your Honors. May it please the
`
`Board. This is John Murphy presenting patent owner's case on the
`motion to amend. Here we are presenting a motion to amend for a
`proposed substitute claim 1A4 on the '113 case, which is the 1257 case.
`
`Here I've underlined some language regarding the call-possessing
`claim presented against Cisco. It requires initiating a second call request
`without answering the first incoming call. Answering the first incoming
`call with the tandem access controller when the second call is answered.
`This is the call processing step that we added to this claim.
`
`In addition, as all the other amended claims have, we've also
`included explicitly the disclaimer into this claim requiring
`communications between the tandem switch and the (unintelligible).
`
`And I'd also just to like to make a note for the record, again, the
`prima facie case that we provided, where we believe we carried the
`burden of proof regarding the motion to amend, went completely
`unrebutted by petitioner as to everything except for the prior art. The
`only prior art arguments that they raise are for Archer, Burger, LaPeer,
`and Lewis.
`
`And again, they knew the right way to do it and the wrong way to
`do it. The right way to do invalidity is to go on a claim-by-claim basis
`and make a coherent invalidity argument. They failed to do so. For
`those reasons alone we believe our motion to amend should succeed
`because these claims are patentable, and they never properly rebutted
`that.
`Turning to Burger, I'd also like to focus on this language here on
`
`the value answering the first incoming call as a requirement of the claim.
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`Cases: IPR2016-01254 and IPR2016-01257
`Patent 8,457,113 B2
`
`Turning to the Burger column 4, lines 24 through 27. Burger
`
`teaches a caller places a call to a subscriber using a public telephone
`number that terminates an ESP. Here Burger explicitly teaches the call is
`answered as required without answering the first call before placing the
`second call.
`
`There's a further disclosure of Burger answering the first call at
`column 7, lines 26 through 31. Step 210, ESP 60 provides an
`introductory message to the caller in communication with the ESP and
`prompts the caller to leave a message. Again, this is another situation
`similar to Archer where they report a tandem access controller has
`answered the first call. The caller is able to then enter digits or leave a
`message with the tandem access controller. Burger explicitly teaches
`answering the first call before it even contemplates placing a second call,
`which doesn't come close to being in the claim language
`
`Further, regarding the disclaimer argument, we've got to have
`annotated Figure 2 of Burger. Mr. Bumgardner's already covered a lot of
`this ground. But I would like to focus the Board's attention to telco 94,
`which they're alleging to be a tandem switch, which is connected to ESP,
`which they are alleging to be the purported TAC.
`
`What they are alleging to be the tandem switch, telco central office
`line 4, that is a direct connection to an end-user line. You can tell. That's
`a copper wire connection. Just like your telephone and your modem at
`your house, they share one telephone line. They connect over one line,
`102. They connect directly to an edge switch. There's no way a copper
`wire line that goes to