`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.
`v.
`FOCAL IP, LLC
`
`ORAL HEARING
`September 19, 2017
`
`U.S. Patent No. 8,457,113
`IPR2016-01254 and -01257
`
`1
`
`
`
`CLAIM CONSTRUCTION OF
`
`CLAIM CONSTRUCTION OF
`UNAMENDED CLAIMS
`
`UNAMENDED CLAIMS
`
`2
`
`
`
`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 24 (-1254, -1257)
`
`3
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`
`
`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 25 (-1254, -1257)
`
`4
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 27 (-1254, -1257)
`
`5
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 28 (-1254, -1257)
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`6
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 17 (-1254, -1257)
`
`7
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`
`
`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 17 (-1254, -1257)
`
`8
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`
`
`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 17 (-1254, -1257)
`
`9
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 18 (-1254, -1257)
`
`10
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`
`
`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 18 (-1254, -1257)
`
`11
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 18 (-1254, -1257)
`
`12
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 1001 (’113 Pat.) at 19 (-1254, -1257)
`
`13
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`…
`
`Ex. 2005 (’777 Pros. Hist.) at 134-35 (-1254, -1257)
`
`14
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 2005 (’777 Pros. Hist.) at 81-82 (-1254, -1257)
`
`15
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 2005 (’777 Pros. Hist.) at 82 (-1254, -1257)
`
`16
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`
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`Claim Construction
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`Ex. 2005 (’777 Pros. Hist.) at 63 (-1254, -1257)
`
`17
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`
`
`THE CHALLENGED CLAIMS ARE
`
`THE CHALLENGED CLAIMS ARE
`PATENTABLE OVER THE INSTITUED
`GROUNDS
`
`PATENTABLE OVER THE INSTITUED
`
`GROUNDS
`
`18
`
`
`
`U.S. Patent No. 6,353,660 to Burger
`US. Patent No. 6,353,660 to Burger
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003)
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003)
`
`19
`
`
`
`IPR2016-01254 (‘113 Patent, Claim 65)
`Claim 24
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“the web-enabled processing system designed to be coupled
`to at least one switching facility of the circuit-switched network”
`
`“the circuit-switched network comprising edge switches . . .
`and switching facilities for routing calls to other edge switches
`or other switching facilities ”
`
`“establishing the voice communication between the calling
`party and the called party after the call is completed, across
`both the packet network and the circuit-switched network”
`
`(IPR2016-01254, 1001)
`
`20
`
`
`
`Burger Figure 1
`Burger Figure 1
`Claim 24
`
`26
`
`3°
`
`22
`
`32
`
`60
`
`Enhanced
`Services
`
`Platform
`
`Processing
`Unit
`
`TDMN
`Circuit
`Switched
`
`Interface
`
`
`
`72
`
`Circuit Switched
`
`
`
`
`Network
`
`3‘4 -
`
`-
`
`38
`
`40
`
`
`
`
`Packet Switched
`
`Network
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003)
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003)
`
`FIG. 1
`
`21
`3‘
`
`
`
`Burger Figure 2
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003; Paper 25, p. 37)
`
`22
`
`
`
`Burger 4:35—41
`Burger 4:35-41
`Claim 24
`
`Thc ESP 150 is ccttttcctcd tc thc circuit switchcd Itctwcrk
`
`22 via intcrccnttccticn 100. In cttc Embfldilflflflh intct'ccn-
`Itcctictt 101] has a sct cf DID lincs frcm thc Cctttrai cfficc
`
`switch 94 tc thc ESP til}. Each DID linc ccnnccts in a spccific
`pcrt cf thc circuit switchcd iutcrfacc 64 {Scc FIG. 1) cf t]1c
`ESP 60. Prcfcrahly, thc intcrccnnccticn 100 is a T1 linc that
`carrics thc DID lincst
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1003)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1003)
`
`23
`23
`
`
`
`Bates Declaration (Exhibit 2022) Para. 68
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 2022, para. 68)
`
`24
`
`
`
`Bates Declaration Para. 69
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 2022, para. 69)
`
`25
`
`
`
`Bates Declaration Para. 91
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 2022, para. 91)
`
`26
`
`
`
`Specifically= Burger discloses
`
`that PSTN-to-IP packet interface..-"'gatets-'a}-' 68 would he coiniected to a tandem
`
`switch in the PSTN 22 because it receives voice from the PSTN as time division
`
`multiplexing (TDM) which is used hv a tandem switch but not an edge switch.
`
`EXIUUB, Figs 1. 2, 5:59-62. PO‘s espeit (Mr. Bates) confirmed that PCMFTDM
`
`IPR2016-01254, Petitioner’s Reply, p. 8
`|PR2016—O1254, Petitioner’s Reply, p. 8
`Claim 24
`
`‘150.
`
`protocol is used bv a tandem switch and would overcome the transmission loss and
`
`impairment problems identified in the Shared Specification (’113 Patent. 1:59-65}.
`
`132511048, 22:23-23:81 26115: 20515-20611 Ex. 2022:
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 34, p. 5)
`
`27
`
`
`
`IPR2016-01257, Petition, pp. 21-22
`|PR2016—O1257, Petition, pp. 21—22
`Claim 24
`
`(iii)
`
`cor-Hpr-'IT.5‘I?I--zg a 1..-1....=eb-erzabled pmcesasing shrew-'2 1?n C]1.15.7271?Hg one or
`
`more 1-1....aeb
`
`.5"er't.rer.s* coupled to a call pm662.945???"ng 818163???
`
`— Burt-gags Fig.
`
`1 3150
`
`shows a web-enabled. processing system in the form of the ESP 60 and.
`
`its
`
`processing unit 62._
`
`
` Call
`
`Web-Enabled
`
`Processing System
`
`Enhanced Semccs P aiform
`GT3
`
`Processing
`
`System
`
`28
`(IPR2016-01257, Paper 2, pp.21-22 )
`
`
`
`
`U.S. Patent No. 6,798,767 to Alexander
`US. Patent No. 6,798,767 to Alexander
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1006)
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1006)
`
`29
`
`
`
`Alexander Figure 1
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1006)
`
`30
`
`
`
`U.S. Patent 6,683,870 to Archer
`US. Patent 6,683,870 to Archer
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`31
`
`
`
`Archer Figure 2
`Claim 24
`
`Archer Figure 2
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`FIG. 2
`
`32
`32
`
`
`
`Archer 5:23—31
`Archer 5:23-31
`Claim 24
`
`The public switched telephone network (PSTN) is the
`preferred circuit-switched communication network 118. In
`this context, the PSTN refers to the worldwide voice tele-
`phone system. Once only an analog system, the heart of most
`telephone networks today is digital. In the United States,
`most of the remaining analog lines are the ones from homes
`and offices to the telephone company’s central office. It is
`not difficult to imagine that some day these lines will also be
`digital.
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`US Patent No. 6,683,870, 5:23-31
`
`US Patent No. 6,683,870, 5:23—31
`
`33
`33
`
`
`
`Archer 5:32—46
`Archer 5:32-46
`Claim 24
`
`The circuit-switched communication network 118 is
`
`coupled to converter 126 which serves to convert the tele-
`phone signals into digitized packets. Converter 126 can also
`be referred to as a gateway, a digitizer or an encoder. For
`voice communicationsz the conversion function would
`include sampling the voice signals and generating digitized
`representations. This digital sample data can then be com-
`bined with packet headers and footers in a manner consistent
`with the protocol used on packet-switched network 130.
`While Internet Protocol (IP) is preferred, the precise proto-
`col used is not critical to the claimed invention. In general,
`converter 126 may convert signals from a first network (e.g.,
`circuit-switched network 118 into a di ital
`rotocol which
`
`can be routed through packet—switched network 130.
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`34
`34
`
`
`
`Archer’s Converter 126
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`35
`
`
`
`Archer 5:47—58
`Archer 5:47-58
`Claim 24
`
`FIG. 3 illustrates a simplified block diagram of a con-
`verter 126. The converter receives telephone signals from
`circuit-switched network 118. These signals are provided to
`a modem 70 and control circuitry 72. The modem translates
`the signals into digital signals which can be handled by
`router 74. The control circuitry 72 utilizes the signaling
`information to generate the packet addressing information
`for router 74. In the preferred embodiment, control circuitry
`72 comprises a processor based system such as a computer
`or specialized hardware. The control circuitry 72 can be
`embedded within router 74. The router then provides pack-
`etized information to the packet-switched network 130.
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`36
`36
`
`
`
`IPR 2016-01254, Petitioner’s Reply, p. 7
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 34, p. 7)
`
`37
`
`
`
`Archer’s Converter 126
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`US Patent No. 6,683,870, 5:59-67
`
`38
`
`
`
`Bates Declaration, Para. 71
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 2022, para. 71)
`
`39
`
`
`
`|PR2016—O1254, Petitioner’s Reply, p. 8
`IPR2016-01254, Petitioner’s Reply, p. 8
`Claim 24
`
`(12) United States Patent
`Lewis
`
`
`(54) SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR BYPASSING
`DATA FROM EGRESS FACILITIES
`
`(75)
`
`Inventor: Shawn M. Lewis, Southboro, MA (US)
`
`(73) Assignee: Level 3 Communications, Inc.,
`Broomfield, CO (US)
`
`( * ) Notice:
`
`Subject to any disclaimer, the term of this
`patent is extended or adjusted under 35
`U.S.C. 154(1)) by 0 days.
`
`(21) Appl. No.: 09f196,756
`
`(22) Filed:
`
`Nov. 20, 1998
`
`PSTN
`
`PSTN edge
`
`PSTN tandem
`
`switch 1%‘4
`
`
`switch 106
`
`
`
`TAC 502
`
`412
`IP network
`
`FIG. 4
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 34, p. 8)
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 34, p. 8)
`
`40
`40
`
`
`
`Petitioner’s Reply, P. 10
`Claim 24
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 34, p. 10)
`
`777 Reply, P. 9
`
`
`
`IPR 2016-01263, Petition, p. 66
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Paper 2, p. 66)
`
`42
`
`
`
`Archer Figure 4
`Archer Figure 4
`Claim 24
`
`Establish mmmunication
`
`68
`
`(IPR2016-01254, Exhibit 1004)
`(I PR201 6-01 254, Exhibit 1004)
`
`43
`43
`
`
`
`CONTINGENT MOTION TO AMEND
`
`CONTINGENT MOTION TO AMEND
`CLAIM 143 OF U.S. PATENT NO.
`8,457,113 TO PROPOSED
`8,457,113 TO PROPOSED
`SUBSTITUTE CLAIM 184
`
`CLAIM 143 OF US PATENT NO.
`
`SUBSTITUTE CLAIM 184
`
`44
`
`
`
`Substitute Claim 184 Of ‘113 Patent
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`45
`
`
`
`Substitute Claim 184 Of ‘113 Patent
`The ‘8923 Patent
`
`46
`
`
`
`CLAIM CONSTRUCTION OF
`
`CLAIM CONSTRUCTION OF
`AMENDED CLAIMS
`
`AMENDED CLAIMS
`
`47
`
`
`
`Construction of Tandem Access Controller
`Claim 24
`
`Tandem Access Controller:
`
`“a controller associated with a
`tandem switch, not an edge switch.”
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 3
`
`48
`
`
`
`Construction of PSTN Tandem Switch
`Claim 24
`
`PSTN Tandem Switch:
`
`“a switch in the PSTN that
`interconnects other PSTN tandem
`switches and edge switches.”
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 5-7
`
`49
`
`
`
`Construction of Request to Establish a Call
`Claim 24
`
`Request to Establish a Call:
`
`“signaling indicating a request to set
`up a connection that provides for a
`two way voice communication”
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 7-8
`
`50
`
`
`
`PRIOR ART IN IPR PETITIONS
`
`PRIOR ART IN IPR PETITIONS
`
`51
`
`
`
`MATERIAL PRIOR ART IN IPR PETITIONS
`The ‘8923 Patent
`Substitute Claim is Patentable Over the IPR Art
`External to PSTN:
`• Alexander
`• Archer
`• Burger
`• McMullin
`• O’Neal
`• Schwab
`• Shtivelman
`• Swartz
`
`Internal to PSTN:
`• Chang
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 14
`
`52
`
`
`
`Chang
`Chang
`
`53
`
`
`
`IN Art - Chang
`Claim 24
`
`IN Art fails to disclose:
`
`• a TAC that receives call requests, initiates
`calls, answers a call, and other functions
`of the TAC recited in the Substitute
`Claims
`
`Chang’s Purported TAC
`• Secure Access Platform that operates as
`a normal web server
`• SCP that merely serves as a database to
`receive database queries and send
`responses to those queries
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 19-21
`
`54
`
`
`
`IN Art - Chang
`Claim 24
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`IN Art is a Closed System
`• Not capable of processing a call sent
`over a different network than the
`PSTN
`
`IN Art’s SCP does not receive a call
`request to establish voice communication
`
`IN Art Requires Modification to Switches
`to Communicate with the SCP
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 19-21
`
`55
`
`
`
`No Reason to Modify EXT Art with IN Art
`Claim 24
`
`• EXT Art’s architectural design and
`implementation is a completely different
`solution than the closed IN architecture
`
`• Unclear how or why a POSA would
`modify Archer with Chang with a
`predictable result
`
`• To modify or combine any of the art to
`read on the Substitute Claims requires
`impermissible hindsight to use the
`claimed invention as a blueprint
`
`Mot. to Amend, Paper 26 of -01257 at 20-25
`
`56
`
`
`
`Proposed Substitute Claim 184 is
`Patentable Over Archer
`
`57
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Archer
`Claim 24
`
`Archer fails to disclose:
`
`“communications, including the first request
`to establish the incoming call, between the
`tandem access controller and the particular
`PSTN tandem switch occur without passing
`through any of the edge switches”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 1-5
`
`58
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Archer
`Claim 24
`
`• Archer does not use the term “tandem” or
`any other term that refers to the claimed
`PSTN tandem switch
`
`• Archer teaches that data to and from the
`purported TAC must first pass through an
`edge switch of the PSTN
`• Modem converts analog to digital
`• Netspeak product designed to receive
`analog signals from an edge switch
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 1-5
`
`59
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Archer
`Claim 24
`
`Archer fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“initiating a second call request … by the tandem
`access controller, without yet answering the first
`incoming call”;
`
`“answering the first incoming call at the tandem
`access controller when the second call is answered”;
`and
`
`“enabling communication between the first call and
`the second call by the tandem access controller
`when the second call is answered by connecting the
`first call to the second call.”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 5
`
`60
`
`
`
`Proposed Substitute Claim 184 is
`Patentable Over Burger
`
`61
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Burger
`Claim 24
`
`Burger fails to disclose:
`
`“communications, including the first request
`to establish the incoming call, between the
`tandem access controller and the particular
`PSTN tandem switch occur without passing
`through any of the edge switches”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 5-7
`
`62
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Burger
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 5-7
`Burger, Fig. 2
`
`63
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Burger
`Claim 24
`
`Burger fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“initiating a second call request … by the tandem
`access controller, without yet answering the first
`incoming call”;
`
`“answering the first incoming call at the tandem
`access controller when the second call is answered”;
`and
`
`“enabling communication between the first call and
`the second call by the tandem access controller
`when the second call is answered by connecting the
`first call to the second call.”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 5-7
`
`64
`
`
`
`Proposed Substitute Claim 184 is
`Patentable Over Lewis
`
`65
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Lewis fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“tandem access controller”; and
`
`“access[] control criteria … based upon
`the call data”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`
`66
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 8
`Lewis, 30:51-60
`
`67
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`• Lewis fails to disclose “initiating a second
`call request to establish a second call via
`the [voice over IP network]”
`
`• PO construed call request to be “signaling
`indicating a request to set up a
`connection that provides for a two way
`voice communication”
`
`• Petitioner relies exclusively on the
`embodiment directed to data calls (i.e.,
`non-voice calls)
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`
`68
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`Lewis, 27:3-18
`
`69
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`Lewis, Fig. 10A
`
`70
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`Lewis, Fig. 5
`
`71
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Lewis fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“initiating a second call request … by the tandem
`access controller, without yet answering the first
`incoming call”;
`
`“answering the first incoming call at the tandem
`access controller when the second call is answered”;
`and
`
`“enabling communication between the first call and
`the second call by the tandem access controller
`when the second call is answered by connecting the
`first call to the second call.”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`
`72
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`Petitioner’s Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 30 of -01257 at 16
`
`73
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over Lewis
`Claim 24
`
`• Lewis fails to disclose “initiating a second call request to
`establish a second call”
`
`• Lewis only discloses routing received data to an ISP:
`
`Lewis, 20: 50-53
`
`Lewis, 30: 15-19
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 7-10
`
`74
`
`
`
`Proposed Substitute Claim 184 is
`Patentable Over LaPier
`
`75
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`LaPier fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“tandem access controller”; and
`
`“access[] control criteria … based upon
`the call data”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`
`76
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`LaPier fails to disclose:
`
`•
`
`•
`
`•
`
`“initiating a second call request … by the tandem
`access controller, without yet answering the first
`incoming call”;
`
`“answering the first incoming call at the tandem
`access controller when the second call is answered”;
`and
`
`“enabling communication between the first call and
`the second call by the tandem access controller
`when the second call is answered by connecting the
`first call to the second call.”
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`
`77
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`Petitioner’s Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 30 of -01257 at 22
`
`78
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`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`• LaPier fails to disclose “initiating a second call request to
`establish a second call”
`
`• LaPier teaches:
`• A single call request is generated via the PSTN, which then is
`converted from PSTN format (IAM 704) to an IP format (Setup
`call message 706), then the call request is answered at a
`terminating device conversant in the IP format.
`
`• Only after the call has been answered, a single call answer
`message is converted from IP format (Connect message 712)
`to PSTN format (ANM 714), and then the answer message is
`received by PSTN device conversant in the PSTN format.
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`
`79
`
`
`
`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`LaPier, Fig. 7A
`
`80
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`
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`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`LaPier, 38:13-24
`
`81
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`
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`Subst. Claim 184 is Patentable Over LaPier
`Claim 24
`
`Reply to Opp. to Mot. to Amend, Paper 39 of -01257 at 10-12
`LaPier, 38:25-39
`
`82
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`
`
`Questions
`
`Questions
`
`83
`
`