throbber
Page 260
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` -----------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -----------------------------
` BRIGHT HOUSE NETWORKS, LLC
` WIDEOPENWEST FINANCE, LLC
` KNOLOGY OF FLORIDA, INC.
` BIRCH COMMUNICATIONS, INC.,
`
` PETITIONERS,
`
` V.
`
` FOCAL IP, LLC,
` PATENT OWNER.
` ----------------------------
`
` Case IPR2016-01259
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` Case IPR 2016-01261
` Patent Number: 8,457,113
` Case IPR2016-01262
` Patent Number: 7,764,777
` Case IPR2016-01263
` Patent Number: 8,155,298
` ------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.
` FORT WORTH, TEXAS
` MAY 9, 2017
` Volume 2
`
`Reported by: Susan S. Klinger, RMR-CRR, CSR
`Job No. 123319
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 1
`
`

`

` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`
`Page 261
`
` May 9, 2017
` 10:03 a.m.
`
` Deposition of REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.,
`held at the offices of Nelson Bumgardner PC, 3131
`West 7th Street, Fort Worth, Texas, before
`Susan S. Klinger, a Registered Merit Reporter
`and Certified Realtime Reporter of the State of
`Texas.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2 3 4
`
`5
`
`6 7 8 9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 2
`
`

`

`Page 262
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`Attorneys for Petitioners:
` Mr. Christopher Tyson
` Mr. Patrick McPherson
` DUANE MORRIS
` 505 9th Street, N.W.
` Washington, DC 20004
`
` Mr. Wayne Stacy
` BAKER BOTTS
` 2001 Ross Avenue
` Dallas, Texas 75201
`
` Mr. Jaspal Singh Hare
` SPENCER FANE
` 10100 North Central Expressway
` Dallas, Texas 75231
`
`Attorneys for Patent Owner:
`
` Mr. John Murphy
` NELSON BUMGARDNER
` 3131 West 7th Street
` Fort Worth, Texas 76107
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 3
`
`

`

`Page 263
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`Mr. Hanna Madbak
`Mr. Victor Siber (telephonically)
`SIBER LAW
`28 W. 44th Street
`New York, New York 10036
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`
`7 8 9
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 4
`
`

`

`Page 264
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS PAGE
`
`REGIS J. "BUD" BATES, JR.
`EXAMINATION BY MR. TYSON 265
`EXAMINATION BY MR. MURPHY 391
`
` E X H I B I T S
` (Not attached.)
`No. Description Page
`Exhibit 1006 U.S. Patent 7,764,777 304
`Exhibit 1007 U.S. Patent 8,155,298 307
`Exhibit 2062 Substitute claim 362
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5 6
`
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 5
`
`

`

`Page 265
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` REGIS J. "BUD" BATES,
`having been previously duly sworn testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. TYSON:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Bates.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Is there any reason that you can't
`testify fully and truthfully today?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you on any medication today that
`would prevent you from testifying fully?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you talk to your counsel
`yesterday evening?
` A. Not about anything here, no.
` Q. Okay. Did you talk to your counsel
`this morning?
` A. No, other than I heard the
`conversation you were having about what was
`going on here.
` Q. Okay. But did you talk to your
`counsel about your testimony?
` A. No.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 6
`
`

`

`Page 266
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` Q. Not yesterday evening or this
`morning?
` A. No. I left after everything was
`going on.
` Q. Okay. Yesterday you identified what
`you considered to be a faux pas in the patent
`specification; correct?
` A. I just thought it might have been
`kind of a misuse of one of the words, the end
`device and referring to the central office. I
`think that's what you're talking about.
` Q. Yeah. So let's turn to the '113
`patent, please.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And column 5, line 4 to 6.
` MR. TYSON: Go off the record just a
` second.
` (Off the record.)
` Q. So column 5, line 4 to 6 of the '113
`patent. Are you there?
` A. I'm there.
` Q. And this is the sentence in which
`it's your testimony that there is a mistake; is
`that correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 7
`
`

`

`Page 267
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, misstates
` his testimony.
` A. I'm not really saying it's a
`mistake. I just don't understand why they used
`that term while describing a central office.
` Q. Okay. Are there any other terms
`that you believe are used in the patent that
`are -- that should be a different term?
` A. Not that I can recall.
` Q. Okay. Are there any other mistakes
`in the patent?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. There are some typos here and there,
`but again, things like that happen when people
`produce documents this large and so on.
` Q. Understand. Are there any other
`mistakes that are like the mistake in column 5,
`lines 4 to 6 that it's your testimony is a
`mistake?
` A. Again, I'm not sure I can call it a
`mistake. I just thought it was a way they
`classified that particular word. I mean, I'm
`sure the patentees had a reason for saying
`that, but I don't know of any other areas in
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 8
`
`

`

`Page 268
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`here that I could say were incorrect or
`whatever.
` Q. What would a person of ordinary
`skill in the art understand are the required
`functions of a tandem access controller?
` A. The tandem access controller is a
`web-enabled processing system that is coupled
`to or in communications with the switching
`facility. And as we've talked, the switching
`facility has been referred to as the tandem
`switch, as well as the fact that the graphics
`or the pictures -- the figures show that the
`controller is communicating with the tandem
`switch.
` Now, it does describe the
`web-enabled processor as being able to use the
`hardware/software or firmware, or it could use
`just a PC, but it does also describe that it
`has to be programmed to recognize the features
`and things of that nature if you read through
`the specification.
` So the requirements would be that,
`A, it's not an edge switch, because we're
`talking about it connecting to the switching
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 9
`
`

`

`Page 269
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`facility also known as tandem switches; B, it's
`a web-enabled processor that's in communication
`or coupled to.
` Q. Okay. The programming of the
`different features, that was -- the patent
`specifies that that's conventional; correct?
` A. That --
` Q. That the programming of the
`different features, telephone features, the
`patent specification identifies it as being
`conventional; correct?
` A. It said a conventional computer, but
`it also says it has to be programmed. If we
`look at -- I think it's column 6 -- I'm just
`looking. If you give me a minute, I will look
`through this and find something.
` Q. Sure.
` A. It says, "Devising the
`software/firmware to use the TAC is well within
`the capability of those skilled in the art,
`since the various control features that can be
`made -- I'm sorry, I'm at line -- column 6,
`line 52 -- within the capability of those
`skilled in the art, since the various control
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 10
`
`

`

`Page 270
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`features that can be made available are
`generally already known.
` Q. Okay.
` A. Yesterday I kept drawing us back to
`two figures within the patent, and that was
`Figure 4 and Figure 5. If you look at that,
`those are basically the algorithms that the
`programming is going to use to be able to do
`this processing.
` Q. So the question I asked was, what
`would a person of ordinary skill understand are
`the required functions of a TAC. So you
`identified -- is it your testimony that the TAC
`must communicate with a tandem switch?
` A. Yes. It's coupled to or in
`communications with the tandem switch.
` Q. Okay. You also identified
`web-enabled. What is the required function of
`a TAC in order to be web-enabled?
` A. It uses web servers and the web
`connection to an internet protocol.
` Q. So does a TAC have to include --
`physically include a web server?
` A. Does it have to physically --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 11
`
`

`

`Page 271
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` Q. Include a web server?
` A. It describes that it uses a web
`server, and that is what the user or subscriber
`would use to be able to configure their
`features and functions along the way to upload
`to the TAC.
` Q. Yesterday we had looked at one part
`of the specification. Do you remember that?
`It was column 1, line 34 to 37.
` A. Correct.
` Q. So looking at column 1, line 34 to
`37, it's your testimony that entering call
`control features through -- call control
`information for telephone features through a
`web portal was known; is that right?
` A. It was disclosed as those things
`known in the industry.
` Q. Okay.
` A. The patent -- I mean, these are the
`disclosures that were being disclaimed, so it
`said yes, we can do that, but it doesn't allow
`us the full third-party control and so on if we
`continue to read it.
` And as edge devices, and each public
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 12
`
`

`

`Page 272
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`telephone company central office would provide
`local control, but those are a limited number
`of features and do not allow the third-party
`control, that being what the subscriber can do.
` The whole gist of the patent as
`we're talking here is that the disclaimed edge
`devices and edge switches that were being used
`were cumbersome, they didn't allow the
`features. We saw the degradation of the
`quality of the circuit on the analog local loop
`and whatever, and the intent was to move it out
`to the tandem switch where we could take
`advantage of the TAC being in direct
`communications with the tandem switch as well
`as to take advantage of the higher quality
`circuitry that we discussed yesterday.
` Q. Understand. A web portal would
`include a web server; correct?
` A. Typically, it would, yes.
` Q. Okay. And so it's your testimony
`that entering call control information for
`telephone features through a web portal was
`known; correct?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 13
`
`

`

`Page 273
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` A. Entering features and so on through
`a web portal was known, but not entering them
`into a TAC that was connected to or in coupled
`to a tandem switch.
` Q. Understand.
` A. The whole art that is being
`disclaimed in this background is the devices at
`the edge, the edge switch or the edge devices,
`the end devices, like a PBX or some other
`device.
` Q. Just going back to the required
`functions of a tandem access controller, does
`the tandem access controller have to have the
`capability to convert voiceover IP and circuit
`switch signaling protocols?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. The tandem access controller
`would -- a POSA reading, what this describes
`would have the ability to convert between the
`two architectures. We can receive the call on
`the PSTN and make a call out on the VoIP
`network, the IP network. There is a statement
`in here that the invention can include VoIP.
` Q. Does -- understand. Does the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 14
`
`

`

`Page 274
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`invention have to include the ability to
`convert between voiceover IP and circuit switch
`signaling protocols?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, asked and
` answered.
` A. It has to have the ability to submit
`the information to some form of a conversion
`process. PSTN and IP are different.
` Q. Okay. Does the tandem access
`controller -- would a POSA understand that the
`tandem access controller must have the ability
`to convert TDM to voice packets?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. You introduced the word "TDM" at
`this point. So we're talking about circuit
`switch voice.
` Q. Correct.
` A. Okay. In the public switch
`telephone network, the TDM is what we would be
`using, so if we're using TDM, we would have to
`do TDM to IP conversions, and a POSA would
`recognize that in order to put it across the
`internet, we would have to convert to or
`provide the access to an IP network with TDM to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 15
`
`

`

`Page 275
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`IP conversions.
` Q. Okay. So it's your testimony that a
`tandem access controller has to have the
`required -- it's a required functionality of a
`tandem access controller to convert circuit
`switch voice to voice packets; is that right?
` A. It would have to have the ability to
`be able to provide that conversion.
` Q. Okay. Does the tandem access
`controller have to have the ability to address
`IP packets?
` A. If we're going to be sending out
`across the IP network, we would have to
`formulate the IP addressing, yes.
` Q. Okay. Earlier -- I mean, you just
`said that a tandem access controller has to
`have the ability to convert circuit switch
`signaling and VoIP signaling; right?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, misstates
` his testimony.
` A. I believe we said from PSTN to voice
`packets. That's not all just signaling.
`That's the combination of the media as well as
`the -- but the ability to convert between the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 16
`
`

`

`Page 276
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`two networks, yes.
` Q. So the tandem access controller
`would have to have the ability to convert both
`signaling and media between circuit switch and
`packet switch networks; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Does the tandem access
`controller have to have the ability to select
`circuit switch elements?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. Can you define what element?
` Q. A component in a switch, does it
`have to have the ability to select circuit
`switches?
` A. The tandem access controller would
`communicate to the tandem switch, so it would
`be communicating with the tandem switch and the
`circuit switch network.
` Q. Okay.
` A. It would select that tandem switch.
` Q. Would select the tandem switch. Is
`it your testimony that the tandem switch would
`be the switch that selected the different
`circuit switch elements?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 17
`
`

`

`Page 277
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` A. Well, I mean, I think we really have
`to figure out what we're talking about here are
`the elements, because, you know --
` Q. Okay. Sure. Let's look at Figure 1
`of the patent.
` A. I think I pulled it off. That's 3.
` Q. Is that it on the back of that?
` A. Oh, there it is.
` Q. Okay. And that's Figure 2?
` A. Thank you. That took a while.
`Sorry.
` Q. That's all right. So you have
`Figure 1 in front of you; correct?
` A. Excuse me.
` Q. You have Figure 1 in front of you?
` A. I have Figure 1.
` Q. Okay. The tandem access controller
`10, it's your testimony that is -- the tandem
`access controller 10 is in communication with
`or coupled to the PSTN tandem switch; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And my question earlier and now
`looking at this figure, Figure 1, does the
`tandem access controller have to select a
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 18
`
`

`

`Page 278
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`particular edge switch 17 or an edge switch 18?
` A. The tandem access controller will
`send up the necessary SS7 signaling through the
`network to specify the end switch that we're
`trying to find, not necessarily the root to get
`to it, but this is where we're sending the call
`via telephone number. It is using a private
`telephone number as opposed to a public
`telephone number, which is something that is in
`the tandem access controller's database, the
`configuration for that particular subscriber.
` Q. Okay. And so the tandem switch that
`the tandem access controller is in
`communication with or coupled to would select
`the root; is that right?
` A. The tandem switch, if in fact it is
`a dialed telephone number or whatever, when the
`tandem access controller hands it to the tandem
`switch, for example, in SS7, if it is just a
`telephone number that we don't know where that
`end switch is, and that can happen, we'll use
`what is called the global title translation.
`The tandem switch would receive that, use the
`SS7 network and the STPs to resolve how to get
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 19
`
`

`

`Page 279
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`to that particular office.
` Q. Okay.
` A. So the root is selected on many
`different ways, whether it's I know exactly
`where it is going or whether I have to do any
`kind of translation along the way.
` Q. This root selection and what you
`referred to as global title translation --
` A. Right.
` Q. -- is that disclosed in the patent
`specification?
` A. SS7 is disclosed in those device --
`or those are pieces of or components of an SS7
`network.
` Q. Okay. And SS7 network, as we've
`talked about yesterday, is well-known, correct,
`at the time of the --
` A. A POSA would understand that SS7 and
`it was disclosed within the confines of the
`art.
` Q. Okay. I want to look at this Figure
`2, which we talked about yesterday as well. We
`walked through some scenarios yesterday. I
`want to walk first through a scenario where
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 20
`
`

`

`Page 280
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`both the calling party and the called party
`used voiceover IP telephones; okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. So if calling party 12, he has his
`voiceover IP telephone next to him; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So in this scenario, the calling
`party 20, the phone next to calling party 20
`would be a voiceover IP telephone, okay?
` A. It would be a --
` Q. A voiceover IP telephone.
` A. It would also be a voiceover IP
`phone.
` Q. Correct. Did you understand that --
` A. This is a hypothetical?
` Q. This is a hypothetical scenario.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Okay. So there would be another one
`of these VoIP arrows that is connecting -- that
`is between the phone by subscriber 20 and the
`web 22. Do you understand that for this
`scenario?
` A. I understand what you are trying to
`do.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 21
`
`

`

`Page 281
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` Q. Okay. So I'm just going to ask
`questions with relation to this scenario, okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. All right. So if the calling party
`12 uses his voiceover IP telephone, he would
`send VoIP signaling to the tandem access
`controller through the web; correct?
` A. In your hypothetical here, I mean,
`we probably have to go through a whole host of
`what other pieces and whatever that are here,
`but using the way you are describing it, it
`would go into the web and these are both VoIP
`phones. It could go straight over, okay?
` I don't believe, you know, and -- I
`don't believe I saw anywhere or talked about
`inventing VoIP to VoIP. The intent was that we
`are using two networks, all right, which is
`what we write in the claim language yesterday.
` If we're going to do VoIP to VoIP,
`that could work strictly over the IP network.
` Q. Okay. And it is your testimony
`yesterday that you understood the tandem access
`controller to be internal to the PSTN; correct?
` A. Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 22
`
`

`

`Page 282
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` Q. So if the voiceover IP call was sent
`from voiceover IP telephone and it was asking
`for signaling for a particular called party and
`it was transmitted to the TAC, then that --
`those IP signaling would go into the PSTN;
`isn't that right?
` A. If it was asking for -- if it's a
`VoIP phone, it would most likely just use the
`VoIP addressing or, you know, that phone would
`call that second phone, both VoIP phones across
`an open VoIP network and be able to process it
`through whatever VoIP network they were using,
`allow whatever proxy servers or location
`servers and things like that that would be part
`of a VoIP on the web.
` Q. Okay.
` A. If it had to go into the PSTN, then
`we would go through the TAC.
` Q. So if, for example, time of day
`routing was a type of routing that was well
`known; correct?
` A. Time of day routing could be a
`feature that would be used.
` Q. So if the voiceover IP -- the party
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 23
`
`

`

`Page 283
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`using the voiceover IP telephone 21 called a --
`was trying to call a subscriber's number;
`however, the database inside the TAC specified
`that during this time of day you would reach
`this called party at a voiceover IP telephone,
`then the VoIP signaling would arrive at the
`TAC, isn't that right, in the -- in the circuit
`switch network?
` A. If we're going to go to the circuit
`switch network.
` Q. Okay.
` A. If we're doing VoIP to VoIP, again,
`I could stay down here within the web and go
`VoIP to VoIP.
` Q. Okay. In the scenario I just
`provided that the voiceover IP signaling is
`received at the tandem access controller which
`is in the PSTN, the TAC would then look up --
`do a lookup in a database; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And he would -- in this case he
`would look up and find an IP address for called
`party 20; correct?
` A. I would assume so. This is your
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 24
`
`

`

`Page 284
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`hypothetical, so I'm going to try to work with
`it.
` Q. Yep. I appreciate that. And then
`in that hypothetical and in this scenario, the
`tandem access controller would then send
`voiceover IP signaling to the called party at
`his IP telephone at the IP address that he
`looked up in the database; correct?
` A. Agreed.
` Q. Okay. Now, in that scenario that I
`just provided, would IP packets be transmitted
`through the tandem access controller, or would
`IP packets in that scenario be transmitted as
`you discussed before just from the voiceover IP
`telephone 21 to the telephone voiceover IP
`telephone called party 20?
` A. I still have to bring it back that
`that if it's a VoIP phone to a VoIP phone,
`there is no need to go through the PSTN. It
`would just use that addressing mechanism VoIP
`to VoIP, IP to IP.
` Q. Okay. So it is your testimony that
`the patent does not cover VoIP to VoIP calls;
`is that right?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 25
`
`

`

`Page 285
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. The patent allows for VoIP because
`we're dealing with two separate networks, VoIP
`to PSTN using a PSTN call, but -- or PSTN to
`VoIP using a PSTN to VoIP call, but you're
`asking about VoIP to VoIP, and that's what I
`said, I don't believe what we're dealing with
`here is anything that was discussed as VoIP to
`VoIP, even though the invention says it can
`include VoIP. I know that was in the
`specification.
` Q. Okay. But it is your testimony --
`just simplifying this, it is your testimony
`that a VoIP to VoIP is not something that is
`covered by the claims of the patent?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, asked and
` answered.
` A. It doesn't need to go through the
`TAC to get on the PSTN. It would just be VoIP
`to VoIP through the internet.
` Q. All right. Thank you. I appreciate
`that. All right. Let's go -- this is a
`different scenario, so I'm crossing out my
`little VoIP line here, and I'm going back to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 26
`
`

`

`Page 286
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`Figure 2 as it stands right now.
` So in this scenario, both the
`calling party and the called party are on the
`PSTN, okay?
` A. Calling and called party?
` Q. Calling and called party. So the
`calling party 12 is using his phone 14. Do you
`see that?
` A. I see that.
` Q. And the called party 20 uses the
`phone next to him. Do you see that?
` A. Okay.
` Q. So in this scenario, if the calling
`party 12 uses phone 14 as we discussed
`yesterday, then there would be circuit switch
`signaling, for example, SS7 --
` A. Correct.
` Q. -- that the tandem access controller
`would receive; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And then the tandem access
`controller does a lookup in its database and
`pulls a phone number of called party 20 out of
`that database; correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 27
`
`

`

`Page 287
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And then as we discussed
`yesterday, the tandem access controller would
`then provide circuit switch signaling, for
`example, SS7 to the tandem switch that it is in
`communication with or coupled to, and then the
`tandem switch would provide SS7 signaling to
`other switches; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. And in this scenario where
`the -- as we discussed this morning, it is the
`tandem switch that is actually selecting the
`route of the different switches; correct?
` A. The TAC is telling the tandem switch
`where the call is to go.
` Q. Okay.
` A. The tandem switch would then select
`the routes that it is going to be using. The
`TAC is still in control. It is telling the
`PSTN to set up a call to let's say phone number
`20.
` Q. Okay. And those where it is telling
`the tandem switch to set up a call as you've
`said, when it is providing those instructions
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 28
`
`

`

`Page 288
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`to the tandem switch, that's through signaling;
`correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Okay. So in this scenario where the
`calling party and the called party are both on
`the PSTN --
` A. All right.
` Q. -- and the tandem access controller
`is providing those instructions that we
`discussed to the tandem switch, would TDM
`packets be routed through the tandem access
`controller?
` A. Through the --
` Q. Tandem access controller.
` A. If, in fact, were connected with a
`TDM connection, yes.
` Q. So the tandem access controller
`is -- it is your testimony that the tandem
`access controller is providing instructions to
`the tandem switch saying, connect to this phone
`number; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And the tandem switch is using those
`instructions to then decide what elements,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 29
`
`

`

`Page 289
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`whether it be a signal -- whether it be a
`tandem switch in this area, an edge switch in
`this area, the different circuit switch
`elements, all of that is being decided by the
`tandem switch; right?
` A. It is being controlled by the TAC.
`It is sending it up. And then what happens is
`normal SS7 signaling protocols would take place
`on how do we set up the route.
` The TAC knows basically if it -- if
`it knows the end address.
` Q. Okay.
` A. If it is an address that it doesn't
`know, it will use the global title translation,
`as I mentioned earlier, which will go up to SS7
`and say, please find me how to get there.
` Q. Okay. So is it your testimony that
`then we talked about yesterday after the call
`is completed and we have the voice
`communication established, that there would be
`a trunk connection between the tandem switch
`and the tandem access controller, and then the
`tandem access controller back to the tandem
`switch, and then the tandem switch to every
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 30
`
`

`

`Page 290
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
`circuit switch element along the path until it
`arrives at the called party's telephone?
` MR. MURPHY: Objection, form.
` A. The communications, all the
`signaling and so on is through the TAC, and it
`is through the TAC, so we would have that
`connection where we would be providing the
`connecting out to here.
` Q. But so the communications of all the
`signaling is different than a voice circuit
`connection; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So is it your testimony that the
`voice circuit after the call is completed and
`the communication circuit has been established,
`that there is a circuit switch voice connection
`that has to go from the tandem switch to the
`TAC and back to the tandem switch?
` A. Correct.
` Q. That's your testimony, okay. Now,
`in your different -- in your various
`declarations you have provided an opinion with
`respect to validity of three different -- of
`the three patents at issue; correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Cisco Systems, Inc., EX 1049 Page 31
`
`

`

`Page 291
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` BATES - VOLUME 2 - 5/9/17
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you understand that that
`validi

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket