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`·1· · · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· ·PRIME FOCUS CREATIVE SERVICES
`· · ·CANADA INC.,
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner,
`·7
`· · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · CASE NO. IPR2016-01243
`·8
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`·9· ·LEGEND3D, INC.,
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`10· · · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.
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`11· ·~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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`12
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`13
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF
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`15· · · · · · · · · · ·CARLOS VAZQUEZ, VOLUME I
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`16· · · · · · · · · · · (PAGES 1 THROUGH 153)
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`17
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`18· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·May 22, 2017
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`19· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:05 a.m.
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`20
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`21· · · · · · · · · ·12275 El Camino Real, Suite 200
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`22· · · · · · · · · · · San Diego, California
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`23
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`25· · · · · · ·Kathryn Winningham, RPR, CSR NO. 14065
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
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`·2
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`·3· ·ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
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`·4· · · ·IRELL & MANELLA LLP
`· · · · ·BY:· JOSHUA GLUCOFT, ESQ.
`·5· · · ·1800 Avenue of the Stars
`· · · · ·Suite 900
`·6· · · ·Los Angeles, California 90067
`· · · · ·310-277-1010
`·7· · · ·Jglucoft@irell.com
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`·8
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`·9· ·ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
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`10· · · ·SHEPPARD MULLIN RICHTER & HAMPTON, LLP
`· · · · ·BY:· JESSE SALEN, ESQ.
`11· · · ·12275 El Camino Real
`· · · · ·Suite 200
`12· · · ·San Diego, California 92130
`· · · · ·858-720-8900
`13· · · ·Jsalen@sheppardmullin.com
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`14
`· · ·ALSO PRESENT:· Eric K. Gill, Esq.
`15· · · · · · · · · Christine J. Ko, Esq.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX OF EXAMINATION
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`·2· ·WITNESS:· CARLOS VAZQUEZ
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`·3· ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·4· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 4
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`·5
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · ·INDEX TO EXHIBITS
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`·7· ·EXHIBIT· · · · · · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · MARKED
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`·8· ·Exhibit 1017· · ·U.S. Patent No. 8,488,868· · · · · ·58
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`·9
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`10· ·(Original exhibit included with original transcript.)
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF CARLOS VAZQUEZ
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·May 22, 2017
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · ·CARLOS VAZQUEZ,
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`·5· · · · having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
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`·8· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·9· · · ·Q.· · Good morning, Mr. Vazquez.· How are you doing
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`10· ·today?
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`11· · · ·A.· · Good morning.
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`12· · · ·Q.· · Can you please state your name and home address
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`13· ·for the record?
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`14· · · ·A.· · Carlos Vazquez.· 21 Polaire, Gatineau, Canada,
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`15· ·Quebec.
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`16· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, you are represented by counsel today;
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`17· ·is that correct?
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`18· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`19· · · ·Q.· · Can you please identify your attorneys?
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`20· · · ·A.· · Mr. Salen.
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`21· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, do you understand that you've just
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`22· ·taken an oath to tell the truth?
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`23· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`24· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that this oath is of the same
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`25· ·force and effect as if given in a court of law before a
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`·1· ·judge and a jury?
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`·2· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·3· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that you are under oath even
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`·4· ·when we take a break?
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`·5· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·6· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that when you are under oath,
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`·7· ·you are not to discuss this case while on break, including
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`·8· ·with your counsel?
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`·9· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`10· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that when you are under oath,
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`11· ·your counsel cannot interpret the questions or help you
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`12· ·answer questions?
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`13· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`14· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that unless your counsel
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`15· ·instructs you not to answer a question, in order to preserve
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`16· ·privilege, you must answer the question?
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`17· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`18· · · ·Q.· · Is there anything preventing you from giving full
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`19· ·and accurate answers today?
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`20· · · ·A.· · No.
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`21· · · ·Q.· · Is there any reason you cannot give me your best
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`22· ·testimony today?
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`23· · · ·A.· · No.
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`24· · · ·Q.· · Did you do anything to prepare for this
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`25· ·deposition?
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`·1· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · And what did you do?
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`·3· · · ·A.· · I read the documents that were related to the
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`·4· ·declaration.
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`·5· · · ·Q.· · Which documents are related to the declaration?
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`·6· · · ·A.· · Well, there are many documents that are stated in
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`·7· ·the declaration.· Some examples are the Patent, '793, '081,
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`·8· ·and the declaration itself.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· · Did you review any documents not cited in your
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`10· ·declaration?
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`11· · · ·A.· · No.
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`12· · · ·Q.· · Did you bring any documents with you to this
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`13· ·deposition?
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`14· · · ·A.· · No.
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`15· · · ·Q.· · I'd like to introduce Exhibit 2024.
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`16· · · · · · ·Mr. Vazquez, do you recognize this document marked
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`17· ·as Exhibit 2024 as the declaration that you submitted in
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`18· ·this proceeding?
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`19· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`20· · · ·Q.· · Is this declaration your complete opinion?
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`21· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`22· · · ·Q.· · What documents is your declaration based on?
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`23· · · ·A.· · What do you mean "based on"?· This document is my
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`24· ·opinion with respect to the case.· There's not just one
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`25· ·document that the declaration is based on; there are many
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`·1· ·documents that are referenced here.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · But you only based your declaration on one
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`·3· ·document; is that what you said?
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`·4· · · ·A.· · No.· Section 3 says "basis for opinion, materials
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`·5· ·reviewed."· There are many documents that are mentioned in
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`·6· ·there.· I form an opinion, and then my opinion is reflected
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`·7· ·in the declaration.· It's not one document that is the basis
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`·8· ·for everything here.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· And have you listed all of the relevant
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`10· ·sources of information that may be material to the opinions
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`11· ·in your declaration?
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`12· · · ·A.· · It's very difficult to make a statement that --
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`13· ·how do you say it?· "All" is a very broad statement.· So I
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`14· ·could say I listed here everything that I considered at the
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`15· ·point of building the declaration as being important.· It is
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`16· ·perfectly possible that I saw something at some point, that
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`17· ·I saw a document or read a document that covered at some
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`18· ·point to form an opinion in a given thing.· That is not
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`19· ·there.· So, for the best of my knowledge, everything that I
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`20· ·considered important is in here.
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`21· · · ·Q.· · Thank you.
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`22· · · · · · ·Mr. Vazquez, could you please turn to paragraph 9
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`23· ·of your declaration?· In paragraph 9, you state that you
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`24· ·have, quote, "20-plus years of industry experience."
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`25· · · · · · ·Do you see that?
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`·1· · · ·A.· · Yeah.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · Does that industry experience include time spent
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`·3· ·as an assistant professor at the Higher Polytechnic
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`·4· ·Institute Jose Antonio Echeverria?
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`·5· · · ·A.· · Yeah.· When I talk about industry, I mean pretty
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`·6· ·much everything.· I include the time.· Yeah, all my time, my
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`·7· ·work time.· I am not making a distinction here between
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`·8· ·working in academia and working outside academia.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· · So this includes time in which you were a Ph.D.
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`10· ·candidate?
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`11· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`12· · · ·Q.· · And this industry experience includes time spent
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`13· ·as a research assistant at the University of Quebec between
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`14· ·1998 and 2004?· That would fall within the 20 years of
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`15· ·industry experience, correct?
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`16· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`17· · · ·Q.· · And you were a Ph.D. candidate at that time,
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`18· ·correct?
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`19· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`20· · · ·Q.· · So you understand your time as a Ph.D. candidate,
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`21· ·researching in a university setting, qualifies industry
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`22· ·experience; is that correct?
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`23· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`24· · · ·Q.· · Thank you.
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`25· · · · · · ·Mr. Vazquez, let's turn please to paragraph 30 of
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`·1· ·your declaration.· I'm specifically looking now at this
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`·2· ·picture in paragraph 30 with the shaded circles, which has a
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`·3· ·caption starting, "Figure 1, these computer generated
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`·4· ·displays."
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`·5· · · · · · ·Do you see the picture that I'm looking at?
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`·6· · · ·A.· · Figure 1 in page 15?
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`·7· · · ·Q.· · On page 15, yes, that's correct.
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`·8· · · ·A.· · Yes.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, do the circles in this image appear
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`10· ·to be popping out of the page or indented into the page?
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`11· · · ·A.· · Well, this is a perception issue, perception base
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`12· ·issue.· So, for -- it depends on the -- it depends on the
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`13· ·viewer, basically.· It could be in one direction for me;
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`14· ·could be in a different direction for a different person.
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`15· · · ·Q.· · So these circles can be perceived to be either
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`16· ·popping out of the page or indented into the page; is that
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`17· ·correct?
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`18· · · ·A.· · In certain circumstances, yes, it could be going
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`19· ·out of the page or going in the page.· It depends on how the
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`20· ·viewer assumes the illumination is located.
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`21· · · ·Q.· · Is that what the caption means when it says, "The
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`22· ·sign of perceived depth is ambiguous"?
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`23· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· I object to form.· Foundation.
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`24· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think that the caption is
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`25· ·basically conveying the message that it's subjective.· It's
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`·1· ·a subjective result.· It depends on the viewer.· But the
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`·2· ·message is that all the -- all the circles tend to be in the
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`·3· ·same -- obtain the same kind of perception in depth.
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`·4· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·5· · · ·Q.· · Can a viewer perceive the circles to be both
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`·6· ·popping out of the page and indented into the page?
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`·7· · · ·A.· · That's, like, a speculation question.· It would be
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`·8· ·very hard to answer that question.· I think it could be
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`·9· ·difficult for a single viewer to see the circles at the same
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`10· ·time popping in and out, but I cannot exclude it.
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`11· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, would a person of ordinary skill in
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`12· ·the art viewing this figure perceive the circles to be
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`13· ·popping out of the page or indented into the page?
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`14· · · ·A.· · That is very difficult.· I just said that the
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`15· ·perception of depth is subjective.· It depends on the
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`16· ·assumption of the place of the illumination.· In that case,
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`17· ·a person of ordinary skills in the art could see the circles
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`18· ·in one direction or the other.· I have the impression -- I
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`19· ·cannot be completely sure of that -- that this is some kind
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`20· ·of preferences in which the illumination is coming.· So it
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`21· ·could be that more people see it popping out.· I'm not going
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`22· ·to be completely sure on that.
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`23· · · ·Q.· · Is there any objective way to tell whether a
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`24· ·person of ordinary skill in the art would perceive these
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`25· ·circles to be popping out of the page or indented into the
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`·1· ·page?
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`·2· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.
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`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Are you referring to just this
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`·4· ·picture?
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`·5· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·6· · · ·Q.· · Yes.
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`·7· · · ·A.· · Only this picture, without any context?
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`·8· · · ·Q.· · Yes.
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`·9· · · ·A.· · Without anything else?
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`10· · · ·Q.· · Yes.
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`11· · · ·A.· · I think it would be very, very difficult to
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`12· ·objectively say, in this particular case, for this
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`13· ·particular picture, in these particular conditions in which
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`14· ·we are, if people will -- if the circles are popping out or
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`15· ·popping in.
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`16· · · ·Q.· · So I understand it may be very, very difficult to
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`17· ·objectively say.· Is it even theoretically possible to
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`18· ·objectively determine whether a person of ordinary skill in
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`19· ·the art would perceive these circles, without further
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`20· ·context, to be popping out of the page or indented into the
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`21· ·page?
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`22· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, the perception of depth
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`24· ·has a very large component of being subjective.· And so in
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`25· ·this particular case, without any context around, in these
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`·1· ·particular illumination conditions, I think this could be
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`·2· ·very difficult to objectively say how a person would
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`·3· ·perceive the depth in this image.
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`·4· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·5· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, you said just a moment ago, quote,
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`·6· ·"The perception of depth has a very large component of being
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`·7· ·subjective," end quote.
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`·8· · · · · · ·Does the perception of depth have any component of
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`·9· ·being objective?
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`10· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.
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`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean by "objective" in
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`12· ·this case?
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`13· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`14· · · ·Q.· · Objective, meaning measurable by a third party.
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`15· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Same objection.
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`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The perception of depth is something
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`17· ·that is how a person interprets the depth of a given scene.
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`18· · · · · · ·So the question, if it is possible for third party
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`19· ·to measure how a person perceives the depth; is that the
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`20· ·question?
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`21· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`22· · · ·Q.· · Yes.
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`23· · · ·A.· · I think there could be experiments in which you
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`24· ·can isolate a particular part of the depth perception of an
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`25· ·individual.· So, in that case, which is very, very specific,
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`·1· ·it is probably possible for a third party to identify how a
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`·2· ·person perceives one particular aspect of the depth of a
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`·3· ·given scene.
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`·4· · · ·Q.· · Can you please describe the experimental setup?
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`·5· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't think I can describe an
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`·7· ·experimental setup for that.· I could probably mention one
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`·8· ·example that comes to my mind right now, which is the Bela
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`·9· ·Julesz example, experiments in which he work it to identify
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`10· ·the binocular disparity, in which uses the random
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`11· ·stereograms to basically prove that there was perception of
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`12· ·depth based on binocular disparity.
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`13· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`14· · · ·Q.· · And if you ran that experiment that you just
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`15· ·described, would you be able to tell me whether a person of
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`16· ·ordinary skill in the art would perceive these circles to be
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`17· ·popping out of the page or indented into the page?
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`18· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`19· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I said that experiment was just an
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`20· ·example, one particular aspect of the depth perception that
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`21· ·is related to binocular disparity.· I didn't make any
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`22· ·connection to this image.
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`23· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`24· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Well, then let's, for the following few
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`25· ·questions, let's stay specific to this image, Mr. Vazquez.
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`·1· · · · · · ·Mr. Vazquez, what do you believe I perceive these
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`·2· ·circles to be doing, popping out of the page or indented
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`·3· ·into the page?
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`·4· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, I don't think I can answer
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`·6· ·that question.· It has to be you answer that question.
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`·7· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·8· · · ·Q.· · So it's an entirely subjective question?
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`·9· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think that the perception of depth
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`11· ·in this particular picture, in this particular context, in
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`12· ·these particular environmental conditions, depends on you.
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`13· ·I cannot say how you perceive depth in that particular
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`14· ·picture in here today.
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`15· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`16· · · ·Q.· · Does that mean it's entirely subjective?
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`17· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`18· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That doesn't mean it's -- I don't
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`19· ·know.· That doesn't mean it's entirely subjective.· I cannot
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`20· ·rule out the possibility of probably building an experiment
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`21· ·that would be -- that would allow me to know or to identify
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`22· ·how do you perceive that.· Probably the safest way is just
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`23· ·to ask you, how do you perceive it?
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`24· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`25· · · ·Q.· · A person of ordinary skill in the art cannot
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`·1· ·perceive these circles to be both popping out of the page
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`·2· ·and indented into the page; is that correct?
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`·3· · · ·A.· · I just said before that I cannot be sure of that.
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`·4· ·I think it's not probable; that it's probably more probable
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`·5· ·that people would see all the circles to be in the same
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`·6· ·direction.· I cannot rule out the possibility of someone
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`·7· ·being able to seeing this from two different, in two
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`·8· ·different conditions, or seeing that some circles going out
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`·9· ·and some circles going in.
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`10· · · ·Q.· · A person of ordinary skill in the art cannot
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`11· ·perceive these circles to be both popping out of the page
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`12· ·and indented into the page at the same time; is that
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`13· ·correct?
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`14· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.· Asked
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`15· ·and answered.
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`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yeah, this is the same question. I
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`17· ·think I already answered.
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`18· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`19· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, this is a slightly different
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`20· ·question.· I'm trying to clarify whether or not a person of
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`21· ·ordinary skill in the art can view a single circle
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`22· ·simultaneously to be both popping out and indented into the
`
`23· ·page.
`
`24· · · · · · ·I think what I understood before from your
`
`25· ·previous answer is that someone might view these circles to
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`·1· ·be popping out, and then maybe at a later point of time,
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`·2· ·view them to be indented in.· Now I'm asking, can a circle
`
`·3· ·be perceived to be both popping out and indented into the
`
`·4· ·page at the same time?
`
`·5· · · · · · ·That's the difference between my current question
`
`·6· ·and the previous question.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Same objections.
`
`·8· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Just to clarify, you want to know if
`
`·9· ·at a given moment in time, for this image, in this context,
`
`10· ·in these environmental conditions, someone can see a single
`
`11· ·circle as being popping out and going in; is that the
`
`12· ·question?
`
`13· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`14· · · ·Q.· · Yes.
`
`15· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Same objections.
`
`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· From my point of view, that is very
`
`17· ·difficult.· I don't think -- when you perceive an object, I
`
`18· ·think that you perceive the object as an entirety.· And at a
`
`19· ·given moment in time, you probably have an impression that
`
`20· ·the circle is on a sphere that is either popping out or
`
`21· ·going in.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· · So you cannot see it as both at the same time, or
`
`24· ·you can potentially see it as both at the same time?
`
`25· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
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`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, that I find it very
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`·2· ·difficult, very improbable, not probable that someone is
`
`·3· ·able to see a circle as being popping out and going in at
`
`·4· ·the same time.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, is there a difference between
`
`·7· ·perceived shape and perceived depth?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· · I think that we are talking here about the --
`
`·9· ·well, the Patents are related to depth.· And when you talk
`
`10· ·about shape, I am assuming that a shape is in the space, so
`
`11· ·we have volumetric shape.· If we are perceiving a shape in
`
`12· ·the volume, there is perceived depth that is associated to
`
`13· ·that shape in the volume.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· · Does perceived shape always imply a perceived
`
`15· ·depth?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That's a strong argument.· As I
`
`18· ·said, if you have a shape that is defined in a volume, that
`
`19· ·means in a 3-D space, that shape conveys depth information
`
`20· ·with it.
`
`21· · · · · · ·Can I take some water?
`
`22· · · · · · ·MR. GLUCOFT:· Yes, sure.· Please.
`
`23· · · · · · ·Thank you.
`
`24· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`25· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, what is perceived shape?
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`·1· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.· Scope.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Perceived shape, I don't want to
`
`·3· ·define what is perceived shape.· I don't think this is
`
`·4· ·something that I can do in a two-minute answer.· I can try
`
`·5· ·to, to the best of my knowledge, to convey what I do
`
`·6· ·understand as perceived shape in this context, if you want
`
`·7· ·me to do that, to try to build something like that.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Yes, please.· Thank you.
`
`10· · · ·A.· · I would say perceived shape would be how a person
`
`11· ·interprets the geometrical structure of a given object in a
`
`12· ·space.· But this is just something that I'm trying to
`
`13· ·explain how I would see it.· I am not saying this is a
`
`14· ·definition of perceived shape.· I would need to study more
`
`15· ·documents and take some time in order to make a definition
`
`16· ·of that.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· · With that description of perceived shape that you
`
`18· ·just provided, does perceived shape always imply perceived
`
`19· ·depth?
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.· Scope.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, if I have a shape in a
`
`22· ·3-D space, and that shape is a 3-D shape, a shape with -- if
`
`23· ·the shape is a 3-D shape and that shape has volume, in that
`
`24· ·particular case, I think, yes, the shape would imply that
`
`25· ·there is a depth perception associated with it.
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`·1· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · Are the conditions you just provided equivalent to
`
`·3· ·perceived shape?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.· Scope.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Can you read what I said is
`
`·6· ·perceived shape before, please.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·(The reporter read back as follows:
`
`·8· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, if I have a shape in a
`
`·9· ·3-D space, and that shape is a 3-D shape, a shape with -- if
`
`10· ·the shape is a 3-D shape and that shape has volume, in that
`
`11· ·particular case, I think, yes, the shape would imply that
`
`12· ·there is a depth perception associated with it.)
`
`13· · · · · · ·(Read-back concluded.)
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`14· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I mean, the previous answer, when I
`
`15· ·said perception of shape.
`
`16· · · · · · ·(The reporter read back as follows:
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I would say perceived shape would be
`
`18· ·how a person interprets the geometrical structure of a given
`
`19· ·object in a space.· But this is just something that I'm
`
`20· ·trying to explain how I would see it.· I am not saying this
`
`21· ·is a definition of perceived shape.· I would need to study
`
`22· ·more documents and take some time in order to make a
`
`23· ·definition of that.)
`
`24· · · · · · ·(Read-back concluded.)
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`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So the question was, again, please?
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`·1· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · The question is:· Does perceived shape always
`
`·3· ·imply perceived depth?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·Now, the issue is that in your most recent
`
`·5· ·response, you responded by providing certain qualifications,
`
`·6· ·and I'm trying to understand whether or not the
`
`·7· ·qualifications that you provided are equivalent to perceived
`
`·8· ·shape, in my question.
`
`·9· · · · · · ·The question that I want to know is:· Does
`
`10· ·perceived shape always imply perceived depth?· That's a
`
`11· ·yes-or-no question.
`
`12· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
`
`13· ·Scope.
`
`14· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, if the perception of the
`
`15· ·shape in 3-D space, the volumetric shape will imply some
`
`16· ·perception of depth.
`
`17· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`18· · · ·Q.· · In every single instance, is that true?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form, foundation, and
`
`20· ·scope.
`
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As far as I can think right now, if
`
`22· ·a shape is defined in space and it has volumetric shape in a
`
`23· ·space, perception of the shape, which means the geometrical
`
`24· ·structure of the shape, will imply the perception of depth.
`
`25· ·///
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`·1· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · In every single instance?
`
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
`
`·4· ·Scope.· Asked and answered.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I cannot answer every single
`
`·6· ·instance.· It's very difficult to answer a question as of
`
`·7· ·every single instance.· I cannot venture into saying that.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, what is perceived depth?
`
`10· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
`
`11· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· For me, the perception of depth is
`
`12· ·the impression on the viewer, how a viewer will understand
`
`13· ·the location of different elements of the scene in the
`
`14· ·space, in the 3-D space.
`
`15· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`16· · · ·Q.· · And what is perceived relative depth?
`
`17· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`18· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Relative depth, for me, refers to
`
`19· ·relative position of objects in the space, in the depth
`
`20· ·dimension.
`
`21· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`22· · · ·Q.· · And what is perceived depth ordering?
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`24· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The depth ordering, the perception
`
`25· ·of depth ordering would be how a person perceives the order
`
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`·1· ·and depth of objects in a given scene.
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`·2· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·3· · · ·Q.· · Perceived depth ordering is different than
`
`·4· ·perceived depth; is that correct?
`
`·5· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think the order is part of -- the
`
`·7· ·perception of order and depth is part of the general
`
`·8· ·perception of depth.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`10· · · ·Q.· · Are perceived depth ordering and perceived depth
`
`11· ·the same?
`
`12· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.
`
`13· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think this is similar to the
`
`14· ·previous question, what the previous question was.
`
`15· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`16· · · ·Q.· · Are you not going to answer the question, Mr.
`
`17· ·Vazquez?
`
`18· · · ·A.· · Yes, I am answering the question.· The question
`
`19· ·is?
`
`20· · · ·Q.· · The question is:· Are perceived depth ordering and
`
`21· ·perceived depth the same?
`
`22· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.
`
`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I just said that, for me, the
`
`24· ·perceived order, depth order, is how the objects are placed
`
`25· ·in -- the order of objects placed in the depth.· So this is
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`·1· ·part of the perception of depth.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· · But it's not all of the perception of depth?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The order doesn't imply the
`
`·6· ·knowledge of the distance between two objects.· So the order
`
`·7· ·is, as I said, one part of the perception of depth.
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· · So, in your understanding, perceived depth
`
`10· ·ordering is a subset of perceived depth; is that correct?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection to form.· Foundation.
`
`12· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In my opinion, my understanding,
`
`13· ·perception of order of objects in the scene is part of the
`
`14· ·perception of depth.
`
`15· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`16· · · ·Q.· · But there are components to the perception of
`
`17· ·depth that are not part of the perception of ordering of
`
`18· ·depth; is that right?
`
`19· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`20· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The perception of depth implies more
`
`21· ·than the perception of the ordering of objects in depth.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· · What is the difference between perceived relative
`
`24· ·depth and perceived depth?
`
`25· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Asked and answered.
`
`
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`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The relative depth refers normally
`
`·2· ·to the difference in depth between two objects in the scene.
`
`·3· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· · Does perceived shape always imply perceived
`
`·5· ·relative depth?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I mentioned before, if you have a
`
`·8· ·volumetric object in 3-D space, the perception of the shape
`
`·9· ·of the volumetric object in 3-D space implies a perception
`
`10· ·of depth.
`
`11· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`12· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, my question was:· Does perceived
`
`13· ·shape always imply perceived relative depth?
`
`14· · · · · · ·Is the answer that you just provided directly
`
`15· ·responsive to that question?
`
`16· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· The perception of the shape of the
`
`18· ·3-D object in a 3-D space implies the perception of relative
`
`19· ·depth between points and shape that are different depth
`
`20· ·levels.
`
`21· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`22· · · ·Q.· · In every single instance?
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.· Asked
`
`24· ·and answered.
`
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· If two points in the shape are
`
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`·1· ·located are located at different depth levels, it is very
`
`·2· ·probable that that will imply perception of relative depth
`
`·3· ·between the two points.
`
`·4· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· · What is a depth level?
`
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· When I said "depth level," I mean
`
`·8· ·the position in the depth dimension of a given point.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`10· · · ·Q.· · What is the depth dimension?
`
`11· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`12· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In the human visual system, the
`
`13· ·perception, we assume -- I am assuming that the perception
`
`14· ·is based on the location of the eyes in the face.· In that
`
`15· ·case, the depth dimension would be the dimension that is
`
`16· ·perpendicular to the -- to the plane in which the two eyes
`
`17· ·are located, and perpendicular to the vertical orientation
`
`18· ·of the face.
`
`19· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`20· · · ·Q.· · Mr. Vazquez, if there is no perceived depth, there
`
`21· ·can still be a perceived shape; is that correct?
`
`22· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· My opinion, if you -- if there is a
`
`24· ·perception of depth inside an object, that implies that
`
`25· ·there is a volumetric shape.
`
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`·1· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
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`·2· · · ·Q.· · So the question I'm asking is:· If there is no
`
`·3· ·perceived depth, can there still be a perceived shape?
`
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, this is difficult to define
`
`·6· ·"no perceived depth."· What do you mean by "no perceived
`
`·7· ·depth"?
`
`·8· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Well, you provided a definition earlier of
`
`10· ·perceived depth.· Would you like that description read back?
`
`11· · · ·A.· · Yes, please.
`
`12· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· I object to form.· Foundation.
`
`13· ·Mischaracterizes his testimony.
`
`14· · · · · · ·(The reporter read back as follows:
`
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· For me, the perception of depth is
`
`16· ·the impression on the viewer, how a viewer will understand
`
`17· ·the location of different elements of the scene in the
`
`18· ·space, in the 3-D space.)
`
`19· · · · · · ·(Read-back concluded.)
`
`20· ·BY MR. GLUCOFT:
`
`21· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Mr. Vazquez, we previously read back your
`
`22· ·answer to the earlier question of, "What is perceived
`
`23· ·depth?"
`
`24· · · · · · ·Now I'm asking, if there is no perceived depth,
`
`25· ·can there still be a perceived shape?
`
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`·1· · · · · · ·MR. SALEN:· Objection.·
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