`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
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` 4 EVOLVED WIRELESS, LLC,
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`CASE NOS: IPR 2016-01208
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` 5
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`Plaintiff,
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`IPR 2016-01209
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` 6
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`-vs-
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` 7 APPLE, INC.,
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` 8
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`Defendant.
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` 9 __________________________________/
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`Deposition of DR. JONATHAN WELLS
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`Washington, D.C.
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`Tuesday, March 21st, 2017
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`9:35 a.m.
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` 25 Reported by: Alexandria Kaan
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`Depo International, Inc.
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`Page 1
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`Evolved Wireless, LLC Exhibit 2006
`Apple/Microsoft v. Evolved Wireless
`IPR2016-01208
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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`Deposition of DR. JONATHAN WELLS held at the offices
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`FISH & RICHARDSON
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`1425 K Street Northwest
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`Washington, D.C. 20005
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`(202) 783-5070
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`Pursuant to agreement, before Alexandria Kaan,
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` 17 Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia.
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
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`Page 2
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`Exhibit 2006-002
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 A P P E A R A N C E S
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` 2
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` 3 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
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` 4 ANDREW HEDDEN, ESQUIRE
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` 5 ROBINS KAPLAN
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` 6 800 LaSalle Avenue
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` 7 Suite 2800
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` 8 Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
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` 9 ahedden@robinskaplan.com
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` 10
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` 11 ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT:
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` 12 INDRANIL MUKERJI, ESQUIRE
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` 13 DAVID HOLT, ESQUIRE
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` 14 FISH & RICHARDSON
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` 15 1425 K Street Northwest
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` 16 11th Floor
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` 17 Washington, D.C. 20005
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` 18 (202) 626-7762
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` 19 mukerji@fr.com
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` 20
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` 21
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` 22 Also Present (telephonically):
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` 23 HERSH MEHTA, ESQUIRE
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` 24 JOHN McKEE, ESQUIRE
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` 25 NAM KIM, ESQUIRE
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`Depo International, Inc.
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`Page 3
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`Exhibit 2006-003
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 C O N T E N T S
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` 2
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` 3 EXAMINATION OF DR. JONATHAN WELLS PAGE
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` 4 By Mr. Hedden 5
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` 6
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` 7
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` 8
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` 9 E X H I B I T S
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` 10 WELLS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT PAGE
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` 11 No. 1007 document 5
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` 12 No. 1012 document 5
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` 13
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` 14 (Exhibits retained by Mr. Hedden.)
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`Depo International, Inc.
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`Page 4
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`Exhibit 2006-004
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 P R O C E E D I N G S
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` 2 - - - - - -
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` 3 (Whereupon Apple Exhibit Nos. 1007 and 1012 are
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` 4 premarked for identification.)
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` 5 JONATHAN WELLS,
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` 6 being first duly sworn to testify the whole truth,
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` 7 testified as follows:
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` 8 MR. HEDDEN: Andrew Hedden from Robins
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` 9 Kaplan, LLP on behalf of Evolved Wireless.
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` 10 MR. MUKERJI: Indranil Mukerji and David
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` 11 Holt from Fish and Richardson on behalf of the
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` 12 Petitioners, Apple and Microsoft, as well as the witness
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` 13 here today.
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` 14 MR. MEHTA: Hersh Mehta by phone from
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` 15 McDermott Will and Emery on behalf of Petitioner DTE.
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` 16 MR. McKEE: John McKee by phone with Quinn
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` 17 Emanuel on behalf of Petitioner Samsung.
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` 18 MR. KIM: Also, Nam Kim from Sheppard Mullin
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` 19 on behalf of HTC.
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` 20 EXAMINATION
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` 21 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 22 Q. Dr. Wells, we are now discussing IPR 2016-01208
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` 23 and IPR 2016-01209. You provided a report on behalf of
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` 24 the Petitioners in those IPR's. Correct?
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` 25 A. Correct.
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`Page 5
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`Exhibit 2006-005
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 Q. And do you have your report in front of you now?
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` 2 A. Yes, I do.
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` 3 Q. You also have in front of you now United States
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` 4 patent No. 7746946. Correct?
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` 5 A. Yes, I do.
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` 6 Q. And that patent is the subject of your
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` 7 declaration. Correct?
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` 8 A. Yes.
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` 9 Q. I'd like you to turn to the claims at the end of
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` 10 this patent. In particular, do you see claim 1 in
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` 11 column 17?
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` 12 A. Yes, I do.
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` 13 Q. And beginning at line 38 you see claim 1
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` 14 requires: "Acquiring a code sequence having a second
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` 15 length by a cyclic extension of a code sequence having a
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` 16 first length." Do you see that?
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` 17 A. Yes, I do.
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` 18 Q. And then this claim also requires, going on to
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` 19 the next line: "Performing a circular shift to the code
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` 20 sequence having the second length." Do you see that?
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` 21 A. Yes, I do.
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` 22 Q. I've handed you what's been labeled as Apple
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` 23 1007. Correct?
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` 24 A. Yes.
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` 25 Q. And this patent is a patent that you refer to in
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`Page 6
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`Exhibit 2006-006
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 your declaration as Zhuang 327. Correct?
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` 2 A. That's correct.
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` 3 Q. And Zhuang is Z-H-U-A-N-G. Correct?
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` 4 A. Yes.
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` 5 Q. In your declaration you opine that Zhuang 327
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` 6 satisfies those two elements that we just read from
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` 7 claim 1. Correct?
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` 8 A. Well, I say more about Zhuang 327 than just that.
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` 9 But that's part of what I opine, yes.
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` 10 Q. And in Zhuang 327 there's an IFFT that's
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` 11 performed between the cyclic extension and the circular
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` 12 shift. Correct?
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` 13 A. In one of the embodiments that's disclosed,
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` 14 that's correct.
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` 15 Q. Well, in the embodiment that you discuss in your
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` 16 report, that's also correct, isn't it?
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` 17 A. Yes, it is.
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` 18 Q. The claims of the 916 patent do not recite an
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` 19 IFFT between the extension and the shift. Correct?
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` 20 A. It's not explicitly recited, but it's certainly
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` 21 within the language of the claim.
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` 22 Q. Which language of the claim includes an IFFT?
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` 23 A. So I have to interpret -- or I've been instructed
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` 24 to interpret those claims under a broadest reasonable
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` 25 interpretation. And under a broadest reasonable
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`Page 7
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`Exhibit 2006-007
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 interpretation, it's my opinion that one with ordinary
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` 2 skill in the art would understand that you have to
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` 3 perform acquiring the second length from the first
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` 4 length using one or more operations. And that operation
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` 5 could include an IFFT.
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` 6 Q. But the language of the claim itself doesn't
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` 7 refer to an IFFT. Correct?
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` 8 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 9 A. The words "IFFT" do not appear in the claim.
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` 10 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 11 Q. So the claims of the 916 do not recite performing
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` 12 an IFFT between the extension and the shift. Correct?
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` 13 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 14 A. The words of the claim do not recite that. But
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` 15 as I said, I believe that that is encompassed by a
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` 16 broadest reasonable interpretation of the claim
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` 17 language.
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` 18 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 19 Q. So I understand you believe it's encompassed by
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` 20 the broadest reasonable interpretation. But just
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` 21 sticking to the words themselves, the words of the claim
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` 22 don't recite it. Correct?
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` 23 A. That's the same answer: The words "IFFT" or the
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` 24 letters "IFFT" are not in the claim, but I believe it's
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` 25 encompassed when I apply a broadest reasonable
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`Page 8
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`Exhibit 2006-008
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 interpretation to the meaning of the claim limitation.
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` 2 Q. And you believe that the part where it's
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` 3 encompassed is the language where it says: "Acquiring a
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` 4 code sequence having a second length by cyclic extension
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` 5 and the code sequence having a first length." Is that
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` 6 right?
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` 7 A. So I've explained my theories throughout my
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` 8 report, and in particular around pages 41 and 42. And
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` 9 at that point there I say this acquiring term is broad
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` 10 enough to encompass one or more operations for
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` 11 performing that acquiring.
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` 12 Q. But you would agree that the only operation
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` 13 that's explicitly described there is the cyclic
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` 14 extension. Correct?
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` 15 A. If we're talking about just that first claim
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` 16 limitation, the acquiring claim limitation, the only
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` 17 words in the claim for performing an action are the
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` 18 cyclic extension. But like I said, when I interpret
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` 19 this claim under broadest reasonable interpretation, I
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` 20 believe there can be multiple steps to perform that
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` 21 cyclic extension.
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` 22 Q. So your interpretation of the broadest reasonable
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` 23 interpretation is based on the steps that are used to
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` 24 perform the cyclic extension?
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` 25 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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`Page 9
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`Exhibit 2006-009
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 A. Well, I've applied broadest reasonable
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` 2 interpretation throughout the whole of my analysis.
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` 3 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 4 Q. What I'm trying to understand, though, I believe
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` 5 you just said that you thought there was more than one
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` 6 operation that could be encompassed by the recited
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` 7 operation, which is to perform a cyclic extension. Is
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` 8 that correct?
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` 9 A. Well, I've considered this limitation, acquiring
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` 10 a code sequence having a second length by a cyclic
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` 11 extension of a code sequence having a first length, I've
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` 12 considered the whole of that limitation. And under the
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` 13 broadest reasonable interpretation, I believe that
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` 14 acquiring can be performed using one or more operations
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` 15 that include using a cyclic extension.
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` 16 Q. So it's not your opinion that the cyclic
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` 17 extension could be one of more operations, it's your
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` 18 opinion that this limitation could include operations in
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` 19 addition to a cyclic extension. Is that right?
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` 20 A. So I've looked at the claim limitation as a
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` 21 whole, the whole claim limitation of acquiring a code
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` 22 sequence having a second length by a cyclic extension of
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` 23 a code sequence having a first length. So I believe the
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` 24 whole of that acquiring step can be multiple operations.
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` 25 Q. But again, the only operation that's actually
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`Page 10
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`Exhibit 2006-010
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 recited there is the cyclic extension itself. Correct?
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` 2 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 3 A. Well, I guess there's multiple operations. I
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` 4 mean, acquiring is an operation: You have to acquire a
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` 5 code sequence having the second length of a cyclic
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` 6 extension of a code sequence having a first length.
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` 7 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 8 Q. But we can at least agree that it doesn't recite
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` 9 performing an IFFT in the language of the claims.
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` 10 Correct?
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` 11 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 12 A. It doesn't recite that in the language of the
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` 13 claims. But again, interpreting the claim under
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` 14 broadest reasonable interpretation, including an IFFT,
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` 15 is encompassed within the claim.
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` 16 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 17 Q. And none of the embodiments that the 916 patent
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` 18 discloses recite performing an IFFT between the cyclic
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` 19 extension and the circular shift. Is that right?
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` 20 A. The embodiments that are disclosed within the 916
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` 21 patent don't have that IFFT. But the patent itself
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` 22 acknowledges that the invention is not limited by the
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` 23 embodiments there, and the modifications and variations
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` 24 would be apparent and could be made to the invention
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` 25 without departing from the spirit or scope of the
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`Page 11
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`Exhibit 2006-011
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 invention.
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` 2 Q. So the embodiments that are disclosed in the 916
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` 3 patent do not include an IFFT between the extension and
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` 4 the shift. Correct?
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` 5 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 6 A. I think that's the same question as before, so
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` 7 it's the same answer: That the embodiments -- an
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` 8 embodiment with an IFFT is not within the embodiments
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` 9 disclosed within the 916 patent. But the 916 patent
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` 10 does acknowledge, in column 17 around lines 26 onwards,
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` 11 that there can be modifications and variations made to
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` 12 the inventions without departing from the spirit or the
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` 13 scope of the inventions.
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` 14 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 15 Q. So what you're saying is one of the possible
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` 16 modifications of the 916 would be to include an IFFT
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` 17 between the cyclic extension and the circular shift?
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` 18 A. I'm saying that would be a reasonable
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` 19 modification to the 916 embodiments, and it's
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` 20 encompassed that the 916 says that other embodiments are
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` 21 permitted.
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` 22 Q. And you would agree that a cyclic extension
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` 23 followed by an IFFT followed by a circular shift is a
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` 24 mathematically-different algorithm from a cyclic
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` 25 extension followed immediately by a circular shift.
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`Page 12
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`Exhibit 2006-012
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 Correct?
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` 2 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
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` 3 You can answer.
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` 4 MR. MEHTA: Same objections.
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` 5 A. Can you ask me the question again?
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` 6 MR. HEDDEN: Can you read the question
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` 7 again, please?
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` 8 (The court reporter reads back the requested section.)
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` 9 MR. MUKERJI: Same objections.
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` 10 A. So I would say that in those two examples that
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` 11 you've given me, one is three mathematical steps, the
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` 12 other is two mathematical steps, so they differ. But
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` 13 you are still performing -- you are still generating a
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` 14 sequence that has the circular shift from a sequence
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` 15 that has a cyclic extension.
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` 16 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 17 Q. And if you started with the same initial base
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` 18 sequence for both of those algorithms and you did the
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` 19 same cyclic extension and the same circular shift but
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` 20 for one of them you performed an IFFT between the
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` 21 extension of the shift, you would get two different
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` 22 resulting sequences. Correct?
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` 23 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
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` 24 A. Well, I think that would depend on how you do
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` 25 them. Because for the example you're given an IFFT, an
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`Page 13
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`Exhibit 2006-013
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 IFFT moves from a frequency domain to a time domain, so
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` 2 you're working in two domains. The other example you
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` 3 gave me without an IFFT, that could be done in a time
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` 4 domain, that could be done in a frequency domain. So I
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` 5 think it depends on how you set up the sequences.
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` 6 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 7 Q. If you set aside the issue of time domain versus
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` 8 frequency domain, an IFFT is a mathematical operation.
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` 9 Correct?
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` 10 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 11 A. Well, an IFFT is a device that performs in the
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` 12 inverse fast flurry of transform, which is a
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` 13 mathematical -- or can be described through mathematics.
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` 14 So it's a device that performs some signal processing,
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` 15 which can be defined by a mathematical function.
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` 16 BY MR. HEDDEN.
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` 17 Q. So there would be an input sequence to that IFFT,
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` 18 process, and then there would be at output sequence that
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` 19 results from performing the process. Correct?
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` 20 A. Yes.
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` 21 Q. And the input sequence and the output sequence,
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` 22 when performing an IFFT, are not the same sequence.
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` 23 Correct?
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` 24 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 25 A. Well, they're in different domains: One of them
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`Page 14
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`Exhibit 2006-014
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 is in a frequency domain; one of them is in a time
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` 2 domain.
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` 3 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 4 Q. So again, if you just set aside this question of
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` 5 frequency domain and time domain, an IFFT can be
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` 6 described by a mathematical operation. Correct?
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` 7 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 8 A. An IFFT can be described by a mathematical
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` 9 operation, yes.
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` 10 BY Mr. HEDDEN:
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` 11 Q. And the input of it is a sequence. Correct?
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` 12 A. Well, the input to an IFFT can be anything.
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` 13 Within the scope of the patents here it's a sequence.
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` 14 Q. And then the output, if you input a sequence to
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` 15 an IFFT process the output of applying the mathematical
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` 16 algorithm is also a sequence. Correct?
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` 17 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 18 A. As an IFFT is used within the context of these
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` 19 patents, yes.
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` 20 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 21 Q. And the input sequence and the output sequence,
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` 22 just mathematically speaking, are not the same sequence.
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` 23 Correct?
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` 24 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 25 A. You've converted one -- you've converted the time
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`Page 15
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`Exhibit 2006-015
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 domain, you've converted a frequency domain input to a
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` 2 time domain output.
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` 3 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 4 Q. So can you answer my question without referring
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` 5 to frequency domain and time domain?
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` 6 A. I think it's important to refer to those domains,
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` 7 because that's the purpose of an IFFT in these patents,
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` 8 to convert between the domains.
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` 9 Q. So then you can agree at least that the result of
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` 10 a cyclic extension followed by an IFFT followed by a
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` 11 circular shift is in a different domain than a cyclic
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` 12 extension followed immediately by a circular shift?
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` 13 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 14 A. So when you're limiting yourself to the circular
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` 15 shift -- cyclic extension, I beg your pardon, a cyclic
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` 16 extension being immediately followed by a circular
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` 17 shift. That would either be done within the time domain
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` 18 or the frequency domain. So that would be done within
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` 19 one domain. If you put an IFFT between the two you're
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` 20 shifting from one domain to the other domain.
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` 21 BY MR. HEDDEN:
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` 22 Q. So if you were starting with the same sequence
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` 23 for both of those two algorithms, the result would be in
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` 24 two different domains. Correct?
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` 25 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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`Page 16
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`Exhibit 2006-016
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`
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
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` 1 A. If you're limiting yourself to the cyclic
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` 2 extension being immediately followed by the code
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` 3 sequence, then yes, they would be in different domains.
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` 4 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 5 Q. We discussed earlier that, among the opinions
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` 6 that are expressed in your declaration, is the opinion
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` 7 that under the broadest reasonable interpretation of
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` 8 claim 1 that these limitations are satisfied by Zhuang
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` 9 327. Correct?
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` 10 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
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` 11 A. Yes, that is correct.
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` 12 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 13 Q. But you agree that if claim 1 is limited, as you
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` 14 say, to a cyclic extension followed immediately by a
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` 15 circular shift, then Zhuang 327 does not disclose that
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` 16 operation. Correct?
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` 17 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
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` 18 A. I'm sorry, I didn't follow the question. Can you
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` 19 please say that again, please?
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` 20 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 21 Q. If claim 1 is limited to performing a cyclic
`
` 22 extension immediately followed by performing a circular
`
` 23 shift, those two operations, without any operation in
`
` 24 between, are not disclosed by Zhuang 327. Correct?
`
` 25 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and outside
`
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`Page 17
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`Exhibit 2006-017
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 the scope.
`
` 2 A. Well, that's not something I analyzed. Because I
`
` 3 analyzed these claims under the broadest reasonable
`
` 4 interpretation, which I was informed was the correct way
`
` 5 to interpret claims during an IPR proceeding.
`
` 6 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 7 Q. Can you turn to paragraph 177 of your report,
`
` 8 please? And do you see there on paragraph 177 where it
`
` 9 says: "To the extent that board adopts a narrow
`
` 10 construction that narrows the claim for a, quote,
`
` 11 acquiring a code sequence having a second length by a
`
` 12 cyclic extension of a code sequence having a first
`
` 13 length, end quote, to, quote, acquiring a code sequence
`
` 14 having a second length only by a cyclic extension of a
`
` 15 code sequence having a first length, end quote." Do you
`
` 16 see that?
`
` 17 A. Yes, I do.
`
` 18 Q. So you did consider whether or not Zhuang 327
`
` 19 discloses these limitations under that construction.
`
` 20 Correct?
`
` 21 A. Well, what I've said here is: I've said under
`
` 22 that construction that at least Zhuang 327 and the HOU
`
` 23 reference, which is spelled H-O-U, discloses that
`
` 24 element, even under that narrower construction.
`
` 25 Q. Do you agree that under that, as you call it
`
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`Exhibit 2006-018
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 "narrower construction", that Zhuang 327 does not
`
` 2 disclose those limitations?
`
` 3 A. I don't think that's something I opined upon in
`
` 4 my report. I opined in my report that under that
`
` 5 narrower construction Zhuang and Zhuang 327 and the HOU
`
` 6 patent discloses each and every element of the claims.
`
` 7 Q. So you can at least agree that it's not your
`
` 8 opinion that Zhuang 327 by itself discloses those under
`
` 9 the narrower construction. Correct?
`
` 10 A. I don't think I opined on that in my report.
`
` 11 Q. Do you have an opinion as to whether or not
`
` 12 Zhuang 327, under what you call the "narrower
`
` 13 construction", would disclose the limitations?
`
` 14 MR. MUKERJI: Objection: Outside the scope.
`
` 15 A. So as I've said, that's something I have opined
`
` 16 upon in my report. I don't have that opinion.
`
` 17 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 18 Q. So as we just discussed, in your report you opine
`
` 19 on the combination of Zhuang 327 and HOU. Is that
`
` 20 correct?
`
` 21 A. Yes, I did.
`
` 22 Q. And HOU has also been labeled Apple 1011.
`
` 23 Correct?
`
` 24 A. Correct.
`
` 25 Q. And you now have HOU in front of you?
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`Page 19
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`Exhibit 2006-019
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`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 A. Yes, I do.
`
` 2 Q. So HOU states that a cyclic shift could be
`
` 3 performed in the frequency domain or a cyclic shift
`
` 4 could be performed in the time domain. Correct?
`
` 5 A. Amongst other things, yes.
`
` 6 Q. And the circular shifting is done to increase the
`
` 7 number of distinct preamble sequences that are
`
` 8 constructed based on a Kozak sequence. Correct?
`
` 9 A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` 10 Q. And Zhuang 327 already includes performing
`
` 11 circular shifts in the time domain to further increase
`
` 12 the number of ranging opportunities. Correct?
`
` 13 A. In one of the embodiments of Zhuang 327, yes.
`
` 14 Q. So adding an additional circular shift in the
`
` 15 frequency domain before the IFFT is performed in that
`
` 16 embodiment of Zhuang 327 would not increase the number
`
` 17 of available sequences. Correct?
`
` 18 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
`
` 19 A. I apologize. Can you repeat the question,
`
` 20 please?
`
` 21 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 22 Q. Adding an additional circular shift in the
`
` 23 frequency domain before the IFFT is performed in that
`
` 24 embodiment of Zhuang 327 would not increase the number
`
` 25 of available sequences. Correct?
`
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`Page 20
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`Exhibit 2006-020
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form: Outside
`
` 2 the scope.
`
` 3 A. No, I disagree with that.
`
` 4 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 5 Q. So if Zhuang 327 already discloses performing the
`
` 6 circular shift in the time domain, how would
`
` 7 additionally performing a circular shift in the
`
` 8 frequency domain further increase the number of
`
` 9 available sequences?
`
` 10 A. It depends on how the two are set up. But if,
`
` 11 for example, you set them up with different circular
`
` 12 shifts, you can create more sequences.
`
` 13 Q. So by performing a circular shift in the time
`
` 14 domain, Zhuang 327, the embodiment in Zhuang 327, fails
`
` 15 to capture the total number of available sequences?
`
` 16 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
`
` 17 A. Can you repeat the question, please?
`
` 18 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 19 Q. In performing a circular shift in the time
`
` 20 domain, does Zhuang 327 fail to capture the total number
`
` 21 of available sequences?
`
` 22 MR. MUKERJI: Same objection.
`
` 23 A. I'm afraid I don't really follow the question.
`
` 24 Zhuang 327 performs a circular shift in the time domain
`
` 25 to generate a plurality of sequences. But you can
`
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`Page 21
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`Exhibit 2006-021
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 perform other circular shifts to generate even more
`
` 2 possible sequences.
`
` 3 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 4 Q. But you could have also -- so you can also
`
` 5 perform all of those circular shifts as one circular
`
` 6 shift, correct, depending on the length of the shift?
`
` 7 A. That depends on how the system is set up.
`
` 8 Q. Well, please describe to me how you would perform
`
` 9 circular shifts twice so as to end up with more
`
` 10 sequences than you had just performed a circular shift
`
` 11 once.
`
` 12 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
`
` 13 A. Okay. So I could give you a hypothetical
`
` 14 example: If you had a sequence of six numbers, so for
`
` 15 in this hypothetical the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, you
`
` 16 could perform a circular shift of two places on that
`
` 17 sequence. And that would give you three different
`
` 18 sequences: It would give you the sequence 3, 4, 5, 6,
`
` 19 1, 2 it would give you the sequence 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, 4;
`
` 20 and it would give you the sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6,
`
` 21 it's given you three sequences; that's doing one
`
` 22 operation.
`
` 23 Now, you could increase the number of sequences
`
` 24 by performing a second circular shift upon that, say
`
` 25 with three places. Then what you do is you take each of
`
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`Page 22
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`Exhibit 2006-022
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 those three sequences and you move everything by three.
`
` 2 And then I'm afraid I can't do the math in my head
`
` 3 whilst under a deposition, but you would, for example
`
` 4 the very first sequence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 would become 4,
`
` 5 5, 6, 1, 2, 3, which is different than those previous
`
` 6 sequences. And if you apply that to the other sequences
`
` 7 you'll end up with other different sequences, so you'll
`
` 8 end up now with six sequences.
`
` 9 So in that hypothetical that I've just given off
`
` 10 the top of my head, by performing the cyclic shift twice
`
` 11 I've doubled the number of sequences that are created.
`
` 12 Q. So in that hypothetical you had a cyclic shift of
`
` 13 two followed by a cyclic shift of three. Correct?
`
` 14 A. In that hypothetical that I just made up.
`
` 15 Q. Which resulted in six sequences?
`
` 16 A. Correct.
`
` 17 Q. But you could have just done an initial cyclic
`
` 18 shift of five and that would also result in six
`
` 19 sequences. Correct?
`
` 20 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
`
` 21 A. So if you did a cyclic shift of five then that'd
`
` 22 would have resulted in six as well, which goes back to
`
` 23 my point that it depends on how this is set up. By
`
` 24 performing a cyclic shift twice you can create more
`
` 25 opportunities than if you perform a cyclic shift once,
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`Page 23
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`Exhibit 2006-023
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells - Vol. II - 3/21/2017
`Evolved Wireless, LLC vs. Apple Inc.
`
` 1 as I showed you in my hypothetical.
`
` 2 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 3 Q. But isn't it true that mathematically for any two
`
` 4 cyclic shifts that you performed you could have just
`
` 5 performed those as one cyclic shift?
`
` 6 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and outside
`
` 7 of scope.
`
` 8 A. That's a mathematical proof. I don't think I can
`
` 9 do that in my head under the pressures of a deposition.
`
` 10 BY MR. HEDDEN:
`
` 11 Q. So can you agree that a cyclic shift is defined
`
` 12 by some number of positions that the sequence elements
`
` 13 are shifted?
`
` 14 A. I don't think a cyclic shift is defined by that.
`
` 15 But I think for practical implementation you have to
`
` 16 establish the number of places that you're moving.
`
` 17 Q. Can you agree that -- so if you perform two
`
` 18 cyclic shifts, you move some number of places, that's
`
` 19 the first shift, and then you move some number of places
`
` 20 in the second shift. Is that correct?
`
` 21 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and scope.
`
` 22 A. If you perform two cyclic shifts, then the first
`
` 23 cyclic shift you move a certain number of places; in the
`
` 24 second cyclic shift you move another number of places,
`
` 25 it could be the same number of places.
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`Page 24
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`Exhibit 2006-024
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`
`
`Dr. Jonathan Wells