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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` APPLE, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`
` vs.
`
` VOIP-PAL.COM, INC.,
` Patent Owner
`
` CASE: IPR2016-01198
` PATENT: 9,179,005 B2
`
` and
`
` CASE: IPR2016-01201
` PATENT: 8,542,815 B2
`
` TELEPHONIC HEARING BEFORE THE
` ADMINISTRATIVE PATENT JUDGES:
`
` JOSIAH C. COCKS
` JENNIFER MEYER CHAGNON
` JOHN A. HUDALLA
`
` DECEMBER 19TH, 2017
`
` HELD AT
`
` ERISE IP
` 7015 College Boulevard
` Suite 700
` Overland Park, Kansas 66211
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 1
`
`
`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
` For the Petitioner:
`
` Adam P. Seitz
` Eric Buresh
` ERISE IP
` 7015 College Boulevard
` Suite 700
` Overland Park, Kansas 66211
` (913)777-5600
` adam.seitz@eriseip.com
` eric.buresh@eriseipcom
`
` Appearing telephonically for the
` Patent Owner:
`
` Kevin N. Malek
` Malek Moss, PLLC
` 340 Madison Avenue
` New York, New York, 10173
` (212)812-1491
` kevin.malek@malekmoss.com
`
`Mary Lynn Cushing
`Missouri CCR #1077
`Alaris Litigation Services
`1608 Locust Street
`Kansas City, Missouri 64108
`(816) 221-1160
`1-800-280-3376
`
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 2
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`
`
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` JUDGE COCKS: Why don't we go ahead
`
`and start off and give us a little bit of background.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor. As my
`
`e-mail noted, we're seeking permission to file a
`
`motion for sanctions or in the alternative for
`
`entirely new proceedings. The basis of our motion
`
`relates to six different letters from an individual
`
`by the name of Dr. Thomas Sawyer, one of Voip-Pal's
`
`largest shareholder, former CEO, former Chairman of
`
`the Board.
`
` On May 1 Dr. Sawyer began what we
`
`would later find out to be a very extensive letter
`
`campaign, sending letters directly to the board and
`
`to the individual panels involved with these two
`
`proceedings. It started with a May 1 letter, at
`
`least that's the first letter we're aware of, which
`
`was sent to the Chief Judge and to our original panel
`
`at that time, Judges Margolies, Benoit and Pettigrew.
`
`Dr. Sawyer did not copy Apple on that letter.
`
`Voip-Pal did not send Apple a copy of that letter and
`
`the board did not enter that letter into the record
`
`or give Apple any chance to respond. The only reason
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`we knew about that letter is a copy was sent to the
`
`District Court in Nevada, where the clerk entered it
`
`into the record in the litigation there. No actions
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 3
`
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`were taken by Apple or the board with respect to that
`
`letter. We didn't take any action in response to
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`that letter because we had no reason to believe that
`
`it had any impact. The board did not take any formal
`
`actions placing any findings on the record regarding
`
`that letter, and no notice or record of a panel
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`change was made in response to that letter.
`
` In early June Apple first learned of
`
`the panel change during a hearing on a motion for
`
`Voip-Pal's sur-reply. Again, at that time no
`
`explanation was given for the panel change. After
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`that first letter we became aware much, much later of
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`letters 2 through 5 from Dr. Sawyer. A June 21
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`letter, a June 11 letter, which also cc'd this panel,
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`a July 27 letter and an August 31 letter, which cc'd
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`this panel. As I noted Apple and its counsel were
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`unaware of letters 2 through 5 entirely. Dr. Sawyer
`
`did not send them to Apple, Voip-Pal did not send
`
`them to Apple and the board did not place them on the
`
`record or give Apple a chance to respond to those
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`letters. Each of those letters requested a variation
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`on the same thing, sanctions in the form of a
`
`reversal of the institution decision or judgment in
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`Voip-Pal's favor and dismissal or denial of any
`
`pending petitions against Voip-Pal.
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`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 4
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` The final letter was sent on October
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`23 by Dr. Sawyer. That letter also cc'd the current
`
`panel. We again learned of this letter only because
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`it was entered at the District Court as a copy of a
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`letter that was received by the clerk. Dr. Sawyer
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`and Voip-Pal did not copy Apple on that letter and
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`the board did not enter that letter into the record
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`and Apple was not given a chance to respond to that
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`letter. This letter again ratcheted up the threats
`
`threatening criminal liability to the board, again,
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`requested reversal of the institution decision and
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`dismissal of the pending petitions. This letter,
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`however, was key. In this letter, the October 23
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`letter, Dr. Sawyer made clear that he, over the past
`
`several months, has participated in a series of
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`meetings and consultations with attorneys for
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`Voip-Pal. He admitted that he continued to serve as
`
`an advisor for Voip-Pal. He admitted that the
`
`perceptions of Voip-Pal and its attorneys were what
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`he was writing about. He admitted the shared
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`perception of the attorneys was being put forth in
`
`his letter, and finally he admitted in the October 23
`
`letter that the attorneys for Voip-Pal shared or
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`provided him with the legal sections that formed the
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`basis of his October 23 letter. It was clear at that
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 5
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`point that Dr. Sawyer was working in concert with
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`Voip-Pal on these letters.
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` About three weeks later the final
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`written decision was issued. This began our
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`investigation into what happened with these letters
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`because the focus of the final written decision was a
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`bit surprising and confusing from Apple's standpoint.
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`It focused solely on the two issues addressed in the
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`institution decision and on the issues that were
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`again raised in the order on Voip-Pal's rehearing
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`request, and essentially amounted to a reversal of
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`the institution decision. The final written decision
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`did not address in any way the swear behind issue,
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`which was the issue on which the parties spent the
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`majority of their time in the proceedings.
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` As part of our investigation we
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`uncovered all six of these letters posted on
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`Voip-Pal's website celebrating Dr. Sawyer's
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`involvement and his letter-writing campaign. We
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`learned Voip-Pal was instrumental in this process.
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`And once we learned of the scope of these letters,
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`again, after we had received the final written
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`decision, we began putting together our thoughts and
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`basis for how we can respond which led us here today.
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` We are seeking a motion, as I
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 6
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`mentioned, for sanctions. The basis for our motion
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`is that ex parte communications are improper and, in
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`fact, I would say ex parte communications that are
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`coercive, that are threatening, that demand specific
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`relief of a proceeding are entirely improper.
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`They're disallowed from an APA regulation standpoint.
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`They're expressly prohibited and improper from the
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`board's own rules prohibiting such contact and they
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`resulted in a significant due process violation to
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`Apple here. The board's own rules provide for
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`sanctions when there's been a violation of the rules.
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`One of those rules would be the ex parte contact.
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`That rule regarding ex parte contact by Dr. Sawyer
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`and Voip-Pal was absolutely violated. The sanction
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`that we're seeking here given the timing and scope
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`and extent of this campaign is judgment in Apple's
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`favor. In the alternative if sanctions are not
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`granted. We're going to be requesting an entirely
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`new proceeding, along with a new panel selected with
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`input from the parties on how that will take place to
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`ensure the fairness of this proceeding going forward.
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` JUDGE COCKS: So I'm going to hear
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`from the other side, but a couple questions first.
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`You mentioned a May 1st letter. When did you receive
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`that letter or become aware of that letter?
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 7
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` MR. SEITZ: The May 1st letter, as I
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`mentioned, we did not receive any copies of it. It
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`was filed in the District of Nevada on May 8.
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` JUDGE COCKS: And I think I -- so do I
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`understand that you're disagreeing with the
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`substantive nature of the decision, is that -- do I
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`understand that correctly?
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` MR. SEITZ: We're not raising that at
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`this point, Your Honor, as part of our motion.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Let's just, as an aside,
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`it sounds like you are essentially seeking rehearing
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`of the decision, is that an accurate
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`characterization?
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` MR. SEITZ: No, Your Honor, I'm not
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`seeking rehearing of the decision. I will address
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`that separately with the federal circuit here. We
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`are not addressing the substance of the decision. We
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`are addressing the ex parte contact, that letter
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`campaign alone.
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` JUDGE COCKS: One further question.
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`You mentioned, saying the filing of the letters be
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`improper. Is part of the improper nature that they
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`would not be permitted into the record, is that what
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`you're asserting as well?
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` MR. SEITZ: I'm not certain I
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 8
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`understood your question, I apologize, Your Honor.
`
`Could you rephrase?
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` JUDGE COCKS: Is it the improper
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`filing that should be regarded as improper and they
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`would be improper filings if they were filed. Is
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`that -- do I understand that you also agree that that
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`type of letter did not -- that improper filing should
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`not be permitted into the record?
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` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor.
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`Communications, ex parte communications, with the
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`board are improper, and then the failure of any of
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`those to be noted on the record I also believe is
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`improper.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. Mr. Malek, let's
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`hear from you.
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` MR. MALEK: Your Honor, thank you.
`
`Just in follow-up, I have serious concerns about the
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`timing of the petition as requested. As you've
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`already pointed out or as Mr. Seitz pointed out, some
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`of the letters were docketed in the Federal Court
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`action and served upon Apple's counsel, one was as
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`far back as May 8th. And so why six months have
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`passed before Apple decided to do anything I think is
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`questionable, but illustrative that it comes up only
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`after the board's decision of recent date.
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 9
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` You know, it looks to me like a case
`
`of sour grapes. They lost and they're reading this
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`for the first time at this point something that could
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`have been and should have been raised before, but
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`they didn't do that and it's classic gamesmanship.
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` Regarding the contents of the
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`letters themselves, I reviewed them all. I see
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`nothing in the letters that suggest any probative
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`value with respect to the technical issues that were
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`presented to the board. I see nothing that tells me
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`that these letters were considered by any of the
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`judges. The letters do not get to any of the merits
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`of these proceedings. At most they're a
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`not-very-well-reason-complaint by a shareholder of
`
`the patent owner about the fairness of the IPR
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`process as a whole. There's no evidence that would
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`lead one to conclude that any action was taken by the
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`board based upon these letters or that they were even
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`considered. And they don't respond to any of Apple's
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`arguments or the issues that were before the board.
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`I see nothing in the letters that indicate any
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`prejudice that was incurred by the petitioners. You
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`know, they wouldn't have done anything differently
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`had they actually responded to these letters, which,
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`at least in the case of one of the letters, they were
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
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`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 10
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`in possession of more than six months ago. Even had
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`the panel been changed or stayed the same, that
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`doesn't mean that this board wrongly decided the case
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`or that the outcome would have been different.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Malek, let me ask
`
`you, what is Dr. Sawyer's relationship with Voip-Pal?
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` MR. MALEK: Dr. Sawyer was a former
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`CEO and he's a shareholder. He's a current
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`shareholder, but he has no management authority or
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`capacity and that is his current status with
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`Voip-Pal, the Patent owner.
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` JUDGE COCKS: I have a further
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`question. Mr. Seitz indicated that there was
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`something, some content in one of the letters
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`indicated that Dr. Sawyer had met with counsel who
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`were part of these proceedings, is that correct?
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` MR. MALEK: I don't know that to be
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`the case. I don't remember which letter -- I'm
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`sorry, I don't remember which letter Mr. Seitz was
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`citing to, but I don't believe that that is the case
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`from the letters themselves.
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` MR. SEITZ: Your Honor --
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` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Seitz, go ahead.
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` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor. That
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`letter is October 23, 2017, the third paragraph, and
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 11
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`I'll quote it for the record. "Over the last several
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`months, I have participated in a series of meetings
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`and consultations with attorneys for Voip-Pal, a
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`software development company, for which I served as
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`CEO for several years and for which I continue to
`
`serve as an advisor. Their perception suggests very
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`serious concerns that the P-Tab and implementation of
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`the IPR process have deviated far from the initial
`
`purpose of the America Invents Act. The shared
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`perception of the attorneys was that the
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`administration of the process has included practices
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`leading to results that are inequitably administered
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`and anticompetitive.
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` MR. MALEK: Your Honor, I now
`
`understand what the basis of your question was. Yes,
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`it is the case that Mr. Sawyer -- Dr. Sawyer does
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`meet with the principals of the company as a
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`shareholder. But that is not -- that is not evidence
`
`that somehow the company was complaisant in this
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`campaign or this kind of advocacy.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Seitz, I have a
`
`further question. Are you contending that there was
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`new and material information that was a part of those
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`letters that somehow factored into these proceedings
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`or the decision that resulted from those proceedings
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`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 12
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`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`-- these proceedings?
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` MR. SEITZ: Your Honor, our contention
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`is that the letters inserted a bias into this
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`proceeding and the law on ex parte communications
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`makes clear that it is the appearance that causes the
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`due process violation, that causes the harm to a
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`party, because once there are ex parte communications
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`the appearance is one that is impossible to get
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`around, whether it did or did not have an impact, the
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`proceeding is then tainted based on the ex parte
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`communications.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. What specifically
`
`are you asking for in terms of your motion and the
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`duration of time to file it, the page length, that
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`sort of thing?
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` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor. The
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`motion itself is going to seek two things in the
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`alternative. It will be a motion for sanctions. The
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`motion for sanctions would be under 37 CFR 42.12,
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`which provide for the sanctions of judgment on the
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`pleadings in Apple's favor for a violation of the
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`rules prohibiting ex parte contact. In the
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`alternative if sanctions are deemed not appropriate,
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`then we would be requesting a new proceeding pursuant
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`to the case law that we would cite in our brief,
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`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 13
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`talking about ex parte contact and the way to correct
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`that is a new and constitutionally correct
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`proceeding, where we would propose discussing the
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`selection of a panel and path forward with the board
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`and with Voip-Pal. I would request 15 pages and,
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`Your Honor, we have been preparing to file this
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`motion. I'm not certain of a deadline, but we've
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`been operating as if tomorrow's deadline, which is
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`the request for rehearing deadline, would be our
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`filing deadline. And that I'd also request a ten
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`page reply.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. So you are
`
`prepared then to file your motion as of, I guess
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`tomorrow?
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` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Malek?
`
` MR. MALEK: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Are you speaking in
`
`opposition to the motion?
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` MR. MALEK: Yes, Your Honor. We would
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`oppose that motion with your permission of course.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. Mr. Seitz, I'm
`
`going to ask you, you indicated I think -- I think
`
`you indicated an appeal to the federal circuit. If
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`there is no request for rehearing, any appeal to the
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`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 14
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`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`federal circuit would transition jurisdiction to the
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`federal circuit, is that -- what are you suggesting
`
`along those lines?
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` MR. SEITZ: Your Honor, out of an
`
`abundance of caution, the path that we would take
`
`forward if we hit the deadline for the Notice of
`
`Appeal would be to file a Notice of Appeal along with
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`a request to stay the appeal while this issue is
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`decided so that we have a final record for appeal.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. I see. All
`
`right. I'm going to confer with the panel. Do the
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`parties have anything else they would like -- Mr.
`
`Seitz, anything else you want to add before we
`
`confer?
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` MR. SEITZ: No, Your Honor.
`
` MR. MALEK: No, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Please everybody stay on
`
`the line. Thank you.
`
` (Off the record.)
`
` JUDGE COCKS: This is Judge Cocks
`
`again. Are the parties still on the call? Mr.
`
`Seitz, are you there?
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` MR. SEITZ: Yes, I'm here, Your Honor.
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` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Malek, are you still
`
`there?
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 15
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`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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` MR. MALEK: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: The panel is going to
`
`take themselves off the call and we're going to
`
`confer and we will call back in approximately ten
`
`minutes. We ask the parties indulge us and please
`
`stay on the call for that time period. Is that
`
`understood, Mr. Seitz?
`
` MR. SEITZ: Understood, Your Honor, we
`
`will not hang up.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Malek?
`
` MR. MALEK: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. We will call back
`
`in approximately ten minutes.
`
` (Off the record.)
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Judge Cocks again. I'm
`
`joined on the call by the panel. Mr. Seitz, are you
`
`still on the call?
`
` MR. SEITZ: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: And Mr. Malek, are you
`
`still on the call?
`
` MR. MALEK: Yes, Your Honor, I am.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: So we have conferred and
`
`we are going to authorize -- Mr. Seitz, we're going
`
`to authorize your motion of 15 pages. We're also
`
`going to authorize a 15 page opposition and an
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 16
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`
`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`ensuing ten page reply to the opposition.
`
` Mr. Seitz, you said that you can file
`
`your motion by tomorrow, is that correct?
`
` MR. SEITZ: That is correct, Your
`
`Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. No objection to
`
`filing it by tomorrow?
`
` MR. SEITZ: No, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Also, as a part of
`
`permitting this briefing schedule, we are going to
`
`stay the deadline for filing a request for rehearing
`
`of the final written decision in these cases pending
`
`the outcome -- pending a determination on the motion.
`
` MR. SEITZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: So just to set up a
`
`briefing schedule. So filing of the motion by
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`tomorrow, December 20th. Mr. Malek, your 15 page
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`opposition, how much time would you be requesting for
`
`that?
`
` MR. MALEK: Your Honor, I don't know
`
`how much latitude you'll give me because I am new to
`
`this matter, but I think 14 days would be --
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` JUDGE COCKS: That would be like two
`
`weeks, January 3rd?
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` MR. MALEK: Yes. It does conflict
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 17
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`
`
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`with some holiday plans. Do you think that I could
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`make it to January 12th?
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` JUDGE COCKS: Mr. Seitz, would you
`
`have any objection to January 12th as the deadline
`
`for the opposition?
`
` MR. SEITZ: No, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Okay. Then Mr. Seitz,
`
`how much time would you need for the ensuing reply?
`
` MR. SEITZ: I would like to request
`
`two weeks, which would put that at January 26th.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: That sounds like an
`
`appropriate schedule particularly given the holiday
`
`period coming up, so that will be -- the motion, 15
`
`page motion by December 20th, the 15 page opposition
`
`by January 12th, and the 10 page rely by January
`
`26th. Okay. So we're going to authorize that, all
`
`of that.
`
` Anything else from the parties,
`
`anything else to discuss today?
`
` MR. SEITZ: Nothing else from Apple,
`
`Your Honor, thank you for your time.
`
` MR. MALEK: Thank you, Your Honor.
`
` JUDGE COCKS: Thank you. The panel
`
`has nothing further. The call is adjourned.
`
` (WHEREIN, the telephonic hearing was
`
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`www.alaris.uswww.alaris.us
`
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`ALARIS LITIGATION SERVICESALARIS LITIGATION SERVICES
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`IPR2016-01198
`Apple EX1021 Page 18
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`
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 12/19/2017
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`Page 19Page 19
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`Page 19Page 19
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`was concluded at 3:00 p.m.)
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