UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
`)
`MICROSOFT MOBILE INC.,
`)
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, )
`INC., AND SAMSUNG
`) Case
`ELECTRONICS CO. LTD,
`) IPR2016-01179
`Petitioners, )
`) Patent 5,850,482
`)
`Patent Owner. )
`---------------------------- )
`
`vs
`FASTVDO LLC,
`
`The Deposition of ROBERT STEVENSON, PH.D.
`Date: March 9, 2017
`Time: 8:52 a.m.
`Place: Midwest Reporting, Inc.
`1448 Lincolnway East
`South Bend, Indiana 46613
`
`Called as a witness by the Patent Owner in
`accordance with the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board pursuant to Notice.
`
`Reported by
`Angela J. Galipeau, RPR, CSR
`Notary Public, State of Indiana
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`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
`)
`MICROSOFT MOBILE INC.,
`)
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, )
`INC., AND SAMSUNG
`) Case
`ELECTRONICS CO. LTD,
`) IPR2016-01179
`Petitioners, )
`) Patent 5,850,482
`)
`Patent Owner. )
`---------------------------- )
`
`vs
`FASTVDO LLC,
`
`The Deposition of ROBERT STEVENSON, PH.D.
`Date: March 9, 2017
`Time: 8:52 a.m.
`Place: Midwest Reporting, Inc.
`1448 Lincolnway East
`South Bend, Indiana 46613
`
`Called as a witness by the Patent Owner in
`accordance with the Patent Trial and Appeal
`Board pursuant to Notice.
`
`Reported by
`Angela J. Galipeau, RPR, CSR
`Notary Public, State of Indiana
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`2
`
`APPEARANCES:
` MR. DERRICK W. TODDY
` Klarquist Sparkman, LLP
` One World Trade Center
` 121 SW Salmon Street, Suite 1600
` Portland, Oregon 97204
` (503) 595-5300
` derrick.toddy@klarquist.com
` For the Petitioners, Samsung Electronics
` America,Inc., and Samsung Electronics Co.
` Ltd.;
`
` MR. WAYNE HELGE
` Davidson, Berquist, Jackson &
` Gowdey, LLP
` 8300 Greensboro Drive, Suite 500
` McLean, Virginia 22102
` (571) 765-7700
` whelge@dbjg.com
` For the Patent Owner.
` * * *
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`3
`
` I N D E X
` THE DEPOSITION OF ROBERT STEVENSON, PH.D.
`EXAMINATION
` By Mr. Helge........................ Page 4
`EXAMINATION
` By Mr. Toddy........................ Page 132
`EXAMINATION
` By Mr. Helge........................ Page 145
` * * *
` E X H I B I T S
`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`Exhibit 2010 Curriculum Vitae 14
`Exhibit 2011 Declaration of Dr. Stevenson for
` '682 22
`Exhibit 2012 "Robust transmission of
` compressed images over noisy
` Gaussian channels" 103
`Exhibit 2013 "Improved decoding of compressed
` images received over noisy
` channels" 103
`PREVIOUSLY MARKED
`Exhibit 1002 U.S. Patent 5,392,037 43
`Exhibit 1005 Declaration of Dr. Stevenson
` for '482 11
` * * *
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`4
`
` ROBERT STEVENSON, PH.D.
` called as a witness by the Patent Owner, having
` first been duly sworn, was examined and
` testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HELGE:
`Q. Good morning, Dr. Stevenson. How are you this
` morning?
`A. Good morning.
`Q. Can you please confirm your full name and
` employment for the record.
`A. Robert Louis Stevenson. I work at the
` University of Notre Dame.
`Q. And we are here for your deposition in the
` matter of Microsoft and Samsung v FastVDO in
` IPR2016-001179, correct?
`A. That's my understanding, yes.
`Q. Because you provided a declaration in that case,
` correct?
`A. Correct.
`Q. On behalf of the petitioner?
`A. Yes.
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`5
`
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, you've been deposed before,
` correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. How many times?
`A. I can't give you an exact number, but 50ish.
`Q. 50ish?
`A. 50ish, yeah.
`Q. So you're probably pretty comfortable with the
` rules of depositions then?
`A. I kind of understand them, I think.
`Q. Okay. Are you taking any medications today that
` would affect your testimony?
`A. No.
`Q. Just as I'm sure you've been told before, but
` I'll say it, we have to be careful not to
` interrupt each other today because the court
` reporter can only take one set of testimony at a
` time, or transcribe one person at a time. You
` understand?
`A. Yes.
`Q. The other thing is if I ask you a question, I do
` need a verbal response because obviously head
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`6
`
` nodding cannot be recorded either.
`A. Sure.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, I'm going to ask you today to
` listen to the form of the question I'm asking.
` Certainly if you have any questions, you don't
` understand what I'm asking, please let me know.
` But I may be asking you whether certain
` statements I make are correct or not.
` So, for example, I've got one written here:
` Dr. Stevenson, you would agree that I have never
` deposed you before, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. So, again, if you have any questions about the
` form of the question, please let me know.
`A. I will do my best.
`Q. Thank you. Dr. Stevenson, you've been deposed
` in IPR proceedings before, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Have you been informed about the rules against
` conferring with counsel during the deposition?
` MR. TODDY: Object to the extent it calls
` for privileged communications. To the
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`7
`
` extent it does not call for privileged
` communication, you can answer.
`A. I mean, I don't know if there's rules that are
` specific directly to IPRs. I understand
` generally speaking during depositions, I am not
` to talk to, confer with my lawyers. I can be
` asked about that if I do.
`Q. Exactly. Obviously there's no barrier to
` conferring about a privilege issue. But I'd
` like to read to you what the patent office has
` issued in its trial guidelines. And this is
` actually verbatim from the Office Trial Practice
` Guide, as if they couldn't have more words to
` describe it.
` And the statement here from the guide is,
` "Once the cross-examination of a witness has
` commenced, and until cross-examination of the
` witness has concluded, counsel offering the
` witness on direct examination shall not: (A)
` Consult or confer with the witness regarding the
` substance of the witness's testimony already
` given, or anticipated to be given, except for
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`8
`
` the purpose of conferring on whether to assert a
` privilege against testifying or on how to comply
` with a board order; or suggest to the witness
` the manner in which any questions should be
` answered."
` Do you understand the prohibition against
` conferring with counsel as I've just read it to
` you?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And you understand that this continues
` throughout this deposition even on the breaks,
` for example?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, what did you do to prepare for
` today's deposition?
`A. Reviewed my declaration, reviewed the art that I
` cited in my declaration, and had a short meeting
` with the attorney.
`Q. When you say the art you cited in your
` declaration, can you be more specific, please?
`A. Well, the two main ones I reference I refer to
` as Kato and one I refer to as Wei.
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`9
`
`Q. When did you last review your declaration?
`A. It would have been yesterday.
`Q. Did you find any errors in your declaration?
`A. I can't think of anything I would characterize
` as an error, no.
`Q. Is there anything that you saw in your
` declaration that you would change now after
` having prepared for this deposition?
`A. I can't think of anything in particular, no.
`Q. Did you review the patent owner's preliminary
` response in this case in preparation for this
` deposition?
`A. Yes, I did.
`Q. Did you review -- and I apologize if you already
` said it. Did you review the petition as well?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you agree with the arguments in the petition?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I'm not sure -- I don't recall having issues
` with any of the arguments made about it.
`Q. So you don't disagree with anything in the
` petition; is that correct?
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`10
`
`A. You know, I probably didn't read it that closely
` to come up with an opinion. I don't recall
` seeing anything that I had a big disagreement
` with, but I can't say I read it super closely
` to, you know, feel comfortable answering what
` you're asking.
`Q. Did you review the district court claim
` construction order in preparation for this
` deposition?
`A. No.
`Q. Have you ever reviewed the district court claim
` construction order?
`A. I can't say I recall, no.
`Q. Just for clarification, Dr. Stevenson, the
` district court construction order came out, I
` think it was October. So it would have been
` after your original declaration was submitted.
`A. Then I don't recall, but I would think it even
` less likely than what I thought two minutes ago.
`Q. So you have no idea whether the district court
` judge applied the same constructions to the
` claim terms as you applied in your declaration;
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`11
`
` is that correct?
`A. I don't think I'm aware of what the -- what's
` going on in the district court case.
`Q. Have you reviewed any documents related to the
` district court litigation?
`A. I don't believe so, no.
`Q. Moving right along. I'm going to hand you what
` has been already marked in this case as Exhibit
` 1005. And just for quick introduction on a
` couple of the documents I'm going to hand you
` today, I've printed them up, as you can see, in
` two pages per side of the paper and then it's
` flipped on the short edge. So it reads like a
` book.
` And I do this so I don't have to carry so
` many pieces of paper when I fly then.
` Can you read this size font decently well?
`A. I might have to go out and grab my reading
` glasses. It's a little small, but I can manage
` probably.
`Q. Let me know at any point if you're not sure
` about that.
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`12
`
`A. I might on a break go out and grab my reading
` glasses out of my bag.
` MR. HELGE: And just for the record, the
` document, I believe, for the most part what
` I've brought today are already of record in
` the case. So I don't plan to submit them
` with the transcript. Only the new documents
` that are not part of the record will we be
` marking like the court reporter usually
` does. Does that make sense?
` MR. TODDY: I mean, other than we may
` have objections to new documents that he
` hasn't reviewed, but that makes sense.
`BY MR. HELGE:
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, do you recognize the document
` that I've put in front of you here?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And this is your declaration submitted with the
` petition, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Okay. And, Dr. Stevenson, can I ask you,
` please, to take a look at the first paragraph
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`13
`
` there.
` Sitting here today, do you agree with that
` statement?
`A. Yes. But it's making me aware that we should
` probably take a break and I should grab my
` glasses if you want me to actually read this.
` MR. HELGE: Let's go off the record.
` (Pause in proceedings.)
`BY MR. HELGE:
`Q. So, Dr. Stevenson, I believe you said you still
` agree with the statements made here in paragraph
` 1 of your declaration, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Can I ask you to turn to page 49, which appears
` in the last page of the document.
` Dr. Stevenson, is that your signature on the
` bottom of page 49?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, I'm not sure if you're aware of
` this, but there was no CV submitted in this
` case, as far as I'm aware. So I went online and
` pulled a CV of yours from another case. So this
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`14
`
` is one document.
` (Exhibit 2010 marked for identification.)
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, I'm handing you what's been
` marked as 2010. This is a CV from -- I can give
` you the Case No. IPR2014-01521. So it's
` probably about two years old as of the filing
` date.
`A. It's actually very -- there's a date when it was
` printed, April 1, 2015.
`Q. Can I ask you to take a quick look at this
` document and see if this is an accurate CV of
` your experience?
`A. As of 2000 -- April 1, 2015. It's been updated
` since then.
`Q. Can you tell me generally the nature of the
` updates that have occurred since then?
`A. There certainly have been more publications. I
` chaired a couple conferences. There's a couple
` different courses I've taught since then that
` are not listed here.
`Q. Do you have any idea whether there would have
` been any changes to old publications?
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`15
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`A. Well, other than typos I would have found, which
` I do seem to find every once in a while. It
` amazes me every once in a while when I find
` something that's probably been there for ten
` years.
`Q. Between April 1, 2014, and today, you don't
` recall finding a journal article, for example,
` that hadn't made it into your CV that you had to
` go back and add?
`A. I'm sure if you're talking things that pre-date
` 2010, I'm sure those are all there. Something
` maybe 2013, special conference papers, I tend to
` do them only every once in a while; and they
` take a year or two to get on.
` But things that are older than 2010 I think
` are all there. And probably a good portion of
` things between 2010 and 2014 are there, but it
` wouldn't shock me if one or two things were
` missing.
`Q. So the things that would have been missing would
` generally have been more recent?
`A. Yeah.
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`16
`
`Q. So, Dr. Stevenson, let's take a look at
` paragraph 6 of your declaration.
` You mention here in the last sentence of
` paragraph 6, you say, "During the past 20 years,
` I've published over 150 technical papers related
` to the field of image processing and digital
` systems." Do you see that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Is that statement relevant to your
` qualifications to testify on the field of the
` '482 patent in this case?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And do you feel that your work with the
` transmission of compressed image files is
` relevant to your ability to testify on what
` we've understood by a person of ordinary skill
` in the art as of the time of the '482 Patent's
` filing?
`A. Certainly that sort of experience, yes.
`Q. And your CV lists the papers that you have
` authored or coauthored, correct?
`A. As of April 1, 2014, yes.
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`17
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`Q. And these papers, to the extent that they deal
` with things like data compression or data
` encoding, those are relevant to your knowledge
` -- well, let me rephrase that question.
` Let's withdraw it.
` Dr. Stevenson, paragraph 7 here, it says you
` are a member of the Institute of Electronics and
` Electrical Engineers, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. IEEE, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Are you a fellow with IEEE?
`A. No.
`Q. Are you aware of what that term means, fellow in
` IEEE?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Is that an honor or a title that's given to
` people with prestige in your field?
`A. It's something you apply for if you feel like
` you've reached a certain level of
` accomplishment.
`Q. And do you personally believe that IEEE fellows
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`18
`
` have reached some level of accomplishment in
` IEEE, or in their field of engineering?
`A. Some of it because of technical reasons, some of
` it because of business reasons, some of it
` because of political reasons, quite frankly.
` It's different levels of accomplishment that get
` you there, not all technical.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, let's take a look at paragraph
` 17. If you look down to the second and third
` sentences there, the word "reexamination"
` appears. Do you see that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. It appears twice in this paragraph, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Is it your understanding that this case is a
` reexamination?
`A. I'm not sure exactly what that legally means.
` So I guess I would say -- I'm not sure.
`Q. But you agree with the usage of that term in
` this paragraph, reexamination?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I mean, it was explained to me that, you know,
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` this is the type of thing I should be looking at
` in terms of this declaration I was putting
` together.
`Q. Did you choose the word reexamination?
`A. I don't recall doing that, no.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, let's go back just for a moment
` on the IEEE fellow question. Are any of your
` colleagues at Notre Dame fellows in IEEE?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you know the names of those colleagues?
`A. I'm sure I'd miss a couple. I know some that
` are.
`Q. Can you name a couple for me that you recall
` offhand?
`A. Tom Fuja, Dan Costello, Nick Laneman, Panos
` Antsaklis, Yih-Fang Huang, those are the ones
` that come to mind because they're people I talk
` to regularly, but I'm sure there are others too.
`Q. What field of engineering does Dr. Costello work
` in?
`A. Information theory.
`Q. Information theory. Okay. Did he work in image
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`20
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` coding in the mid 1990s?
`A. He has a paper or two that -- on my CV that he
` wrote with me, but I was the one bringing the
` imaging expertise, you would say.
`Q. Would you say that Dr. Costello is an expert in
` his field?
`A. Yeah, I think if you generally define his field
` as the things he does, then, yes, he's well
` qualified.
`Q. Let's turn to paragraph 22. Dr. Stevenson, here
` in paragraph 22 you list four factors related to
` obviousness, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And those four factors are included with bullet
` points in paragraph 22, correct?
`A. Correct.
`Q. Is it your understanding that all four of these
` factors would be considered as part of your
` obviousness analysis?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I certainly considered all those. I think
` generally it would be good practice to consider
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
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`21
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` all of them.
`Q. The sentence in paragraph 22 that precedes these
` four bullets states, "I also understand that the
` relevant inquiry into obviousness required
` consideration of four factors." Do you see
` that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. So it's your understanding that these four
` factors must be considered, correct?
`A. Like I said, that's what I've been told. I know
` I've considered them. The requirement I'm not
` as sure about because that seems like --
` stepping on the legal side of things. I'd just
` ask the lawyer. But that is my understanding.
`Q. Okay. Thank you. Have you heard of a term
` motivation related to obviousness analysis?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Where does motivation come in with these four
` factors, according to your understanding?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I mean, to a certain extent all of them. I'm
` not sure how I would separate it out.
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`22
`
` (Exhibit 2011 marked for identification.)
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, I'm going to hand you what's been
` marked as Exhibit 2011. And this is a
` declaration of yours, correct?
`A. It appears to be.
`Q. And this declaration was submitted in a case
` IPR2013-00350, correct?
`A. That's what it says. I mean, I don't remember
` these numbers, but --
`Q. Can you take a look, please, at page 40. Again,
` this is one of those I've got printed on
` double --
`A. Paragraph 40?
`Q. I'm sorry, page 40, please.
`A. Page 40?
`Q. Yes.
`A. Okay.
`Q. Do you see there's an electronic signature
` there?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Is that your electronic signature?
`A. Yes.
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`Transcript of Robert Stevenson, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`23
`
`Q. Can you please turn to paragraph 23. This is
` paragraph 23 of Exhibit 2011. Dr. Stevenson,
` I'm going to ask you to please read paragraph 23
` to yourself.
`A. Okay.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, is your testimony in paragraph 23
` of Exhibit 2011 still accurate?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I don't see anything in that paragraph that is
` inconsistent with my current understanding.
`Q. Take a look at the last sentence, and it begins
` with the word "Thus." Do you see that sentence
` there?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you still agree with that sentence?
`A. I understand, you know, kind of the level of
` that has changed over the years based on rulings
` by the Court. And the timeline of when it
` happened, I'm not sure when that happened
` relative to this declaration from four years
` ago.
`Q. Are you referring to KSR?
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`24
`
` MR. TODDY: Objection, form.
`A. I know that's a reference to a legal case. I
` think that might be right.
`Q. You mentioned the Court a moment ago. I want to
` make sure I understand you're thinking of the
` Supreme Court?
`A. I don't pay attention to all the legal side of
` the stuff that much. I know -- and if -- the
` KSR does sound right. If that's that Supreme
` Court decision, that's the one I'm probably
` thinking of.
` I've been doing this, like, 20 years. And I
` know it's changed over time, kind of the level
` of, you know, kind of the standard of what you
` look for for motivation. I don't think there's
` anything wrong with finding, you know -- it's
` good to find specific references. I don't think
` it's necessary. So that's kind of my
` understanding.
`Q. From your understanding, Dr. Stevenson, why is
` it important to identify a reason that would
` have prompted a person of ordinary skill in the
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`Conducted on March 9, 2017
`
`25
`
` art or in the relevant field to combine the
` elements in the way the claimed invention does?
`A. Because if you take things that are unrelated
` but have different elements in a claim, that
` someone of skill in the art would have never,
` you know, been aware of that broad of scope or
` something or, you know, probably not have been
` aware of something because the field was fairly
` different, say. You know, there's -- you can't
` rely on the fact that they would have known that
` and pulled those things together in the same way
` the patent did.
`Q. Would you agree that you applied your
` understanding of obviousness as represented here
` in paragraph 23 to your analysis in the FastVDO
` case?
`A. Like I said here, I don't see anything
` inconsistent with my current understanding. So
` when I'm saying that, that's the same analysis I
` would apply.
`Q. And that's the analysis you did apply; is that
` correct?
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`26
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`A. Yes.
`Q. Let's turn to paragraph 28.
`A. Of the same declaration?
`Q. Yes, sir, Exhibit 2011. And I'm just going to
` ask you to read this on your own quickly. Take
` as much time as you want actually.
`A. 28 you said?
`Q. Please, paragraph 28.
`A. Okay.
`Q. In the middle of this paragraph you state, "The
` Nomad is connected to a personal computer via a
` docking station and parallel port cable to
` 'download MP3 files or to upload voice
` recordings.'" Do you see that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. It appears to me that the Nomad had the ability
` to download or upload files, data, via the
` personal computer, and I believe that was via
` the Internet; is that correct?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, scope.
`A. When you say via the Internet, I'm not sure what
` you're referring to now.
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`27
`
`Q. Okay. Well, download MP3 files, is that
` download MP3 files from the Internet?
`A. I don't recall.
`Q. Let's take a look then -- well, actually before
` we do that, do you recall performing your
` analysis on the Nomad device described in this
` paragraph?
`A. I recall a device in this case referred to as
` the Nomad. I don't remember many aspects of it.
`Q. Do you recall that it was able to connect to a
` personal computer via a docking station and
` parallel port cable to download MP3 files or to
` upload voice recordings?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, scope.
`A. Only by reading that paragraph and believing I
` was correct then and, you know, that refreshing
` my memory now, any memory I would have
` independent of that paragraph right now.
`Q. I understand, of course. Let's turn to
` paragraph 44. And I'll ask you to read the
` first couple sentences on your own. Actually,
` go ahead and read the full paragraph, if you
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`28
`
` like.
`A. Okay.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, in the first couple sentences, is
` it correct that you were testifying here that
` there would have been no reason to add the
` capability to download files from the Internet
` to the Nomad because it already possessed that
` capability via a PC?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, scope.
`A. I mean, it seems like you're just trying to
` paraphrase my first sentence or two there. You
` know, I don't have much memory of this case or
` the Nomad device. I think that the two
` sentences speak for themselves as to what my
` opinion was at the time.
`Q. Do you agree that your opinion as stated in
` these first two sentences of paragraph 44 of
` this declaration stand for the proposition that
` there would have been no reason to modify the
` Nomad to include a feature or a benefit that it
` already possessed?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, scope.
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`29
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`A. Again, I think the sentences speak fine for
` themselves. I'm not sure why you want to
` paraphrase them. I clearly came to the opinion
` that in that case that there was not a reason to
` do some combination, and at least part of that
` reason was because of what I state in those two
` sentences.
`Q. And in those two sentences you say that there
` would have been no reason to modify the Nomad to
` add the capability of downloading audio
` information from an interactive computer network
` such as the Internet, and you say that there
` would have been no reason because the Nomad was
` already designed to work in tandem with a
` personal computer that includes that capability,
` correct?
` MR. TODDY: Objection, scope.
`A. That's an aspect of my reasoning. I don't know
` if that is the totality of my reasoning for
` reaching that opinion.
`Q. Dr. Stevenson, let's go back to the FastVDO
` declaration. And we were looking at paragraph
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`30
`
` 22, and let's skip ahead here to paragraph 23.
` You state, "I understand that the obviousness
` inquiry should be done through the eyes of a
` person of ordinary skill in the relevant art at
` the time the '482 patent application was filed
` (in this case, April 17, 1996)."
` Dr. Stevenson, were you a person of ordinary
` skill in the relevant art as of April 17, 1996?
` And if you're looking for the standard, it's in
` paragraph 40.
`A. I have to believe I am, but I want to compare
` just to make sure.
`Q. Of course.
`A. Yes, certainly I have much more experience than
` what is required for the ordinary skill.
`Q. You had a Ph.D.?
`A. Yes.
`Q. As of 1996?
`A. Yes.
`Q. A POSITA does not, in your opinion, need a
` Ph.D., correct?
`A. Correct.
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`31
`
`Q. And you had more than two years experience in
` the area of data compression and coding and
` decoding as of April 1996, correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Can you estimate how many years of experience
` you did have as of April of 1996?
`A. Well, you know, I first started looking at these
` issues in graduate school. So that would have
` been late '80s, '86, '87. I started actively
` working, publishing in that area the summer I
` was at Intel, which I believe would have been
` 1994, summer of '94.
`Q. So, Dr. Stevenson, if you can for me, please,
` can you tell me how many years of experience you
` had in the area of data compression and coding
` and decoding as of April of 1996?
`A. Eig
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