·1· · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`·4· ·ARRIS GROUP, INC.,· · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · ·Petitioner,· · )· Case IPR2016-01160
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·6· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · )· Patent No. 8,611,404
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· ·TQ DELTA, LLC,· · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·8· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· )
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`11· · · · · · ·Deposition of LANCE J. McNALLY, taken on
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`12· ·behalf of the Patent Owner, pursuant to Notice and
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`13· ·agreement of counsel, before Judith L. Leitz Moran,
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`14· ·Certified Court Reporter, at Thomas Horstemeyer,
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`15· ·L.L.P., 400 Interstate North Parkway, Suite 1500,
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`16· ·Atlanta, Georgia, on the 23rd day of February,
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`17· ·2017, commencing at the hour of 9:00 a.m.
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`TQ Delta Exhibit 2002
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`Arris Group, Inc. v. TQ Delta, LLC
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`IPR2016-01160
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`1
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`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`·4· ·ARRIS GROUP, INC.,· · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·5· · · · · · ·Petitioner,· · )· Case IPR2016-01160
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·6· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · )· Patent No. 8,611,404
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·7· ·TQ DELTA, LLC,· · · · · ·)
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · )
`·8· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· )
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`11· · · · · · ·Deposition of LANCE J. McNALLY, taken on
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`12· ·behalf of the Patent Owner, pursuant to Notice and
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`13· ·agreement of counsel, before Judith L. Leitz Moran,
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`14· ·Certified Court Reporter, at Thomas Horstemeyer,
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`15· ·L.L.P., 400 Interstate North Parkway, Suite 1500,
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`16· ·Atlanta, Georgia, on the 23rd day of February,
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`17· ·2017, commencing at the hour of 9:00 a.m.
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`TQ Delta Exhibit 2002
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`Arris Group, Inc. v. TQ Delta, LLC
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`IPR2016-01160
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`Page 2
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`·1· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:
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`·2
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`·3· ·On behalf of the Petitioner:
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`·4· · · · Dan R. Gresham, Esquire
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`·5· · · · Charles W. Griggers, Esquire
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`·6· · · · THOMAS HORSTEMEYER, L.L.P.
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`·7· · · · 400 Interstate North Parkway, SE
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`·8· · · · Suite 1500
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`·9· · · · Atlanta, Georgia· 30339
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`11· ·On behalf of all named Patent Owner:
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`12· · · · Thomas J. Wimbiscus, Esquire
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`13· · · · Rajendra A. Chiplunkar, Esquire
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`14· · · · David Z. Petty, Esquire - (via telephone)
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`15· · · · McANDREWS HELD & MALLOY, LTD.
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`16· · · · 500 West Madison Street
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`17· · · · 34th Floor
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`18· · · · Chicago, Illinois· 60661
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`19
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`20· ·ALSO PRESENT:
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`21· · · · BOB STARR, ESQ., SR. PATENT COUNSEL, ARRIS
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`22· · · · CAROL ANSLEY, ESQ., SR. DIRECTOR, ARRIS
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`Page 3
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`·2· ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·3· · · · BY MR. WIMBISCUS .......................· · ·4
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`·4· · · · BY MR. GRESHAM .........................· · 94
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`·5· · · · BY MS. WIMBISCUS .......................· ·102
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`·8· · · · · ·E X H I B I T S (REFERRED TO)
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`·9· ·EXHIBIT NO.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`10· ·Exhibit 1003· ·Declaration of Lance· · · · · · · 19
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`11· · · · · · · · · McNally
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`12· ·Exhibit 1004· ·Curriculum Vitae· · · · · · · · · ·8
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`13· ·Exhibit 1005· ·Bowie Patent, 5,956,323· · · · · ·33
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`14· ·Exhibit 1006· ·Vanzieleghem Patent,· · · · · · · 67
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`15· · · · · · · · · 6,246,725
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`16· ·Exhibit 1009· ·ADSL Standards· · · · · · · · · · 27
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·LANCE J. McNALLY,
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`·2· ·being first duly sworn, was examined as follows:
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`Page 4
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`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I do.
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`·5· ·BY MR. WIMBISCUS:
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`·6· · · · Q· · Good morning, Mr. McNally.
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`·7· · · · A· · Good morning.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Would you state and spell your name for
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`·9· ·the record, please.
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`10· · · · A· · My full name is Lance John McNally,
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`11· ·L-A-N-C-E, J-O-H-N, M-C-N-A-L-L-Y.
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`12· · · · Q· · What is your residence address, please?
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`13· · · · A· · I reside at 11 Shirley Road, Townsend,
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`14· ·Massachusetts.
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`15· · · · Q· · Covered with snow right now?
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`16· · · · A· · I hope not.· I hope it all melted, but it
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`17· ·was pretty brutal the last couple of weeks.
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`18· · · · Q· · What is your age, please?
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`19· · · · A· · My age, 58.
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`20· · · · Q· · Okay.· And you had your deposition taken
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`21· ·a number of times, I trust?
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`22· · · · A· · Yes.
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`23· · · · Q· · Okay.· And just for clarity, I'll go
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`24· ·quickly through some of the ground rules just to
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`25· ·refresh you.
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`Page 5
`·1· · · · · · ·So we have a court reporter here today,
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`·2· ·so you'll need to answer audibly, right?
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`·3· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`·4· · · · Q· · All right.· And if you can wait -- do
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`·5· ·your best to wait till I'm done with my question
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`·6· ·before you start your answer, it will make her life
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`·7· ·a lot easier.
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`·8· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`·9· · · · Q· · All right.
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`10· · · · A· · She'll kick me.
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`11· · · · Q· · Okay.· I'm sure she'll give us a heads
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`12· ·up.
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`13· · · · · · ·I'll try to take periodic breaks, maybe
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`14· ·every hour or so, but if you need a break before
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`15· ·then, just let me know.
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`16· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`17· · · · Q· · I just ask that you don't take a break
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`18· ·during the pendency of a question.
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`19· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`20· · · · Q· · Okay.· And during the breaks that may
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`21· ·occur during the course of my cross-examination, do
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`22· ·you understand that you're not supposed to speak to
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`23· ·counsel about the substance of your testimony?
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`24· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`25· · · · Q· · Okay.· Is there any reason why you would
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`5
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`·1· ·not be able to testify accurately and truthfully
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`Page 6
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`·2· ·today?
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`·3· · · · A· · There's no reason.
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`·4· · · · Q· · Okay.· And you're not under any
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`·5· ·medications or anything like that?
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`·6· · · · A· · No, sir.
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`·7· · · · Q· · Okay.· All right.· What did you do to
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`·8· ·prepare for your deposition for today?
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`·9· · · · A· · I reviewed the '404 patent.· I reviewed
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`10· ·the '725 patent.· I reviewed the '323 patent. I
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`11· ·took a quick look at the prosecution history for
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`12· ·the '323 patent.
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`13· · · · · · ·I reviewed the first section of my expert
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`14· ·report dealing with the beginning of it, and the
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`15· ·'323, the '725, and the ADSL Standard.· I did not
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`16· ·review the second part of my expert report with
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`17· ·regards to the two T1 references.
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`18· · · · · · ·I reviewed the Patent Owners' petition to
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`19· ·the Patent Board.· I looked at the ADSL Standard --
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`20· ·well, use the word "review," that whole document
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`21· ·sentence by sentence, I did not do, I just did a
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`22· ·quick overview of that.· And I did a quick overview
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`23· ·of the original petition.· And I reviewed the
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`24· ·decision.
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`25· · · · Q· · Thank you.
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`6
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`·1· · · · · · ·Did you review any other documents?
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`Page 7
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`·2· · · · A· · I reviewed very, very briefly the PCT of
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`·3· ·Gross that is referred to in the '404, as well as
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`·4· ·the provisional application that it cites.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Okay.· Anything else?
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`·6· · · · A· · I cannot think of anything else or I do
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`·7· ·not recall anything else at this time.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Okay.· And did you meet with anyone in
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`·9· ·preparation for your deposition?
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`10· · · · A· · Yes, I did.
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`11· · · · Q· · And with whom did you meet and when,
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`12· ·please?
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`13· · · · A· · I met with the attorneys, Chuck and Dan,
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`14· ·and with Bob and Carol, and we met yesterday.
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`15· · · · Q· · Okay.· Was that here at the Thomas
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`16· ·Horstemeyer law firm in Atlanta?
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`17· · · · A· · Yes, and I sat on this side of the
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`18· ·conference room table.
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`19· · · · Q· · All right.· Where we are today?
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`20· · · · A· · Correct.
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`21· · · · Q· · You're familiar with that seat then?
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`22· · · · A· · Well, no, I actually sat down there
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`23· ·(indicating).
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`24· · · · Q· · All right.· Did you have occasion to
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`25· ·speak with anyone else in preparation for your
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`·1· ·deposition?
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`·2· · · · A· · No, sir.
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`Page 8
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`·3· · · · Q· · How long did you meet?
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`·4· · · · A· · Approximately 3 to 4 hours.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Okay.· And that's the extent of your
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`·6· ·preparation for your deposition; is that right?
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`·7· · · · A· · Correct.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Okay.· I'm going to show you a copy of
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`·9· ·your CV which has been previously marked
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`10· ·Exhibit 1004 in connection with this case.
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`11· · · · · · ·That's a true and accurate copy of your
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`12· ·current CV; is that right?
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`13· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`14· · · · Q· · Does that accurately describe your work
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`15· ·experience to the extent it's set forth?
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`16· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`17· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did you have any prior work
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`18· ·experience with multichannel modems or
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`19· ·transceivers?
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`20· · · · A· · I would characterize the DOCSIS cable
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`21· ·modem work as dealing with transceivers and
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`22· ·receivers.· I would characterize the work that I
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`23· ·did on T1 with transmitters and receivers.· I would
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`24· ·characterize the work that I did in communications
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`25· ·as well with various technologies.
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`·1· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did any of that work involve low
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`·2· ·power mode transceivers?
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`·3· · · · A· · I would say Wake-on-LAN did, yes.
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`·4· · · · Q· · Can you --
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`·5· · · · A· · Wake-on-LAN, local area network.
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`·6· · · · Q· · Can you spell that, Wake?
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`·7· · · · A· · Wake as in W-A-K-E.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Uh-huh.
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`·9· · · · A· · Whiskey Alpha Kilo Echo.
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`10· · · · Q· · All right.· And would you direct me to
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`11· ·that on your CV here, please.
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`12· · · · A· · It would be during the time that I worked
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`13· ·at Zenith Data Systems.· Responsible for leading
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`14· ·the R&D team, developing OEM and validating
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`15· ·Intel-based server products.
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`16· · · · Q· · Can you point me to where that is,
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`17· ·please.
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`18· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`19· · · · Q· · Very good.· Thank you.
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`20· · · · · · ·What was the nature of that work?
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`21· · · · A· · The nature of that work was that Intel
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`22· ·and IBM formed an alliance that basically puts
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`23· ·computers into a low power mode.· And so -- to
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`24· ·conserve energy.· And then upon receipt of a
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`25· ·packet, then the computer would wake back up.
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`·1· · · · Q· · Was that technology commercialized?
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`Page 10
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`·2· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`·3· · · · Q· · In what products?
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`·4· · · · A· · Intel-based servers.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Okay.· And what was your role in
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`·6· ·connection with that project?
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`·7· · · · A· · I held various roles from design engineer
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`·8· ·to managing the hard -- managing the system
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`·9· ·development and then managing the engineering
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`10· ·organization.
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`11· · · · Q· · Did you have a design role in the low
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`12· ·power mode features of that server technology?
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`13· · · · A· · I -- my role was in the OEM'ing of it to
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`14· ·select products that had that capability in terms
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`15· ·of -- from assistant engineering of hardware and
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`16· ·software as well as directing the development on
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`17· ·lower end servers.· So, yes, yes, sir.
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`18· · · · Q· · What do you mean when you say OEM'ing of
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`19· ·select products that had the capability in...
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`20· · · · A· · In the server organization, we basically
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`21· ·offered products ranging from symmetrical
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`22· ·multiprocessors all the way down to low end
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`23· ·servers.
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`24· · · · · · ·OEM'ing stands for original equipment
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`25· ·manufacture.· So on the very high end of the
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`·1· ·product line for, like, say a six-way symmetrical
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`·2· ·multiprocessor computer, the R&D cost to develop
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`·3· ·that are extremely high.· The volume is relatively
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`·4· ·low.· So our strategy was to essentially OEM the
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`·5· ·motherboard, the chassis, the plastics from IBM.
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`·6· · · · · · ·We would then select peripheral cards
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`·7· ·that would support, for example, an ethernet
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`·8· ·controller for low power mode.
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`·9· · · · · · ·And so it was a mixture of OEM'ing where
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`10· ·you don't actually develop the product or the
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`11· ·entire product, you source it, put it together,
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`12· ·build it.· We did a build-to-order system.· And
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`13· ·then go ahead and validate that everything works
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`14· ·properly, validate you are compliant with UL and
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`15· ·FCC admissions and what have you.
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`16· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did you do any work on the BIOS
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`17· ·for that technology?
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`18· · · · A· · Yes.
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`19· · · · Q· · What was your role?
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`20· · · · A· · I managed the group that actually did the
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`21· ·BIOS.· We did extensions to the BIOS.· We also
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`22· ·worked with Phoenix on our BIOS which was our prime
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`23· ·vendor.
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`24· · · · Q· · Was that in connection with implementing
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`25· ·or designing?
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`·1· · · · A· · Both.
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`Page 12
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`·2· · · · Q· · So did you design the messaging aspects
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`·3· ·of this low power mode system?
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`·4· · · · A· · From a systems engineering point, yes.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Did you design it or you did not?· Can
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`·6· ·you clarify that?
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`·7· · · · A· · A systems engineer basically is
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`·8· ·responsible for specifying the requirements of the
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`·9· ·various subsystems.· That is in my opinion one
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`10· ·level of design.
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`11· · · · Q· · Okay.· But you weren't provided with the
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`12· ·requirements for the subsystems?
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`13· · · · A· · We developed the requirements for the
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`14· ·subsystems.
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`15· · · · Q· · And you were provided with the overall
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`16· ·design architecture?
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`17· · · · A· · No.
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`18· · · · Q· · Okay, what were you provided with?
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`19· · · · A· · We were provided with a product
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`20· ·requirements document at a high level that is from
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`21· ·product management that specifies we want a product
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`22· ·that has this high level feature.
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`23· · · · · · ·From an engineering standpoint, we
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`24· ·basically have to perform the various design roles
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`25· ·that occur in multiple functional areas.
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`·1· · · · Q· · All right.· And you didn't author the
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`Page 13
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`·2· ·PRD, did you?
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`·3· · · · A· · No.
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`·4· · · · Q· · Okay.· All right.· Your CV doesn't
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`·5· ·reference any prior litigation work.· Have you
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`·6· ·testified in connection with any prior litigation?
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`·7· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Did any prior litigation involve
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`·9· ·multichannel transceivers or modems?
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`10· · · · A· · Not directly, sir.
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`11· · · · Q· · Have you testified at trial before?
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`12· · · · A· · No, sir.
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`13· · · · Q· · Have you testified -- obviously, by depo
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`14· ·-- at deposition you've testified, right?
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`15· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`16· · · · Q· · Has any of your proffered testimony ever
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`17· ·been excluded in court?
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`18· · · · A· · Not that I'm aware of, sir.
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`19· · · · Q· · Do you know if any of your prior
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`20· ·testimony has ever been used in a district court
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`21· ·litigation?
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`22· · · · A· · Not that I'm aware of, sir.
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`23· · · · Q· · Okay.· You're aware that TQ Delta is
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`24· ·involved in various other legal proceedings in
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`25· ·litigations and IPRs?
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`13
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`·1· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`Page 14
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`·2· · · · Q· · Okay.· You've done some work in
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`·3· ·connection with several other IPRs other than the
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`·4· ·one at issue here; is that right?
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`·5· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`·6· · · · Q· · Would that be for the '430, the '956 and
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`·7· ·the '412 patents?
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`·8· · · · A· · I don't recall, sir.
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`·9· · · · Q· · Okay.· You recall it was three IPRs that
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`10· ·you submitted declarations in?
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`11· · · · A· · I don't recall, sir.
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`12· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did you do any work other than in
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`13· ·connection with three IPRs involving TQ Delta?
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`14· · · · · · ·Let me withdraw the question.
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`15· · · · · · ·Other than three IPRs with TQ Delta, did
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`16· ·you do any other work in connection with any TQ
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`17· ·Delta matter?
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`18· · · · A· · Not that I recall, sir.
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`19· · · · Q· · Okay.· Have you spoken with anyone
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`20· ·regarding any other TQ Delta matter other than the
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`21· ·three IPRs that we referenced?
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`22· · · · A· · No.
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`23· · · · Q· · Have you spoken about any other TQ Delta
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`24· ·matter other than the three IPRs that you
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`25· ·referenced?
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`·1· · · · A· · No.
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`·2· · · · Q· · Okay.· And who is paying your fees in
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`Page 15
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`·3· ·connection with this proceeding?
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`·4· · · · A· · ARRIS.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Do you know approximately how much the
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`·6· ·fees have been in connection with this case?
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`·7· · · · A· · No, sir.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Is it more than $20,000?
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`·9· · · · A· · I would say approximately that.
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`10· · · · Q· · Your hourly rate is $105?
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`11· · · · A· · With ARRIS.
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`12· · · · Q· · Is that a discounted rate?
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`13· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
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`14· · · · Q· · Why is that?
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`15· · · · A· · Because I've done a lot work for them in
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`16· ·the past.
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`17· · · · Q· · Over what period of time?
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`18· · · · A· · From, I believe, 2009 until present.
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`19· · · · Q· · How would you characterize that work?
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`20· · · · A· · That work involved litigation in
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`21· ·noninfringement positions, in terms of invalidity,
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`22· ·in terms of discovery, in terms of claim
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`23· ·construction.· Second, I worked on patent
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`24· ·prosecution.· And thirdly, I did analysis on patent
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`25· ·portfolios.
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`Page 16
`·1· · · · Q· · Approximately how much of your business
`
`·2· ·has been involved with ARRIS over the past six
`
`·3· ·years?
`
`·4· · · · A· · Significant.
`
`·5· · · · Q· · And can you characterize it more than --
`
`·6· ·is it more than 50 percent?
`
`·7· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`·8· · · · Q· · Is it more than 75 percent?
`
`·9· · · · A· · I don't know.
`
`10· · · · Q· · Somewhere between 50 and 75 percent?
`
`11· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`12· · · · Q· · Can you quantify the per year
`
`13· ·compensation you received from ARRIS over any of
`
`14· ·the last six years?
`
`15· · · · A· · No, sir, it varies.
`
`16· · · · Q· · Did any of your prior work with ARRIS
`
`17· ·involve DSL modems?
`
`18· · · · A· · No, sir, not that I can recall.
`
`19· · · · Q· · You mentioned you were involved in some
`
`20· ·litigation work.· Did you -- withdrawn.
`
`21· · · · · · ·Were you ever an expert witness on any
`
`22· ·litigation for ARRIS?
`
`23· · · · A· · No, sir.
`
`24· · · · Q· · You serve in a consulting role?
`
`25· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`16
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q· · What's your normally hourly rate?
`
`Page 17
`
`·2· · · · A· · 350.
`
`·3· · · · Q· · Now, your CV, Exhibit 1004, does not
`
`·4· ·identify any publications.· Have you authored
`
`·5· ·publications?
`
`·6· · · · A· · Not that I can recall.
`
`·7· · · · Q· · Your CV, Exhibit 1004, does not identify
`
`·8· ·any patents for which you're a named inventor.· Are
`
`·9· ·you a named inventor on any patents?
`
`10· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`11· · · · Q· · Do any of those patents involve
`
`12· ·multichannel technology?
`
`13· · · · A· · I don't recall.
`
`14· · · · Q· · Did any of the patents involve sleep mode
`
`15· ·technology or low power mode technology?
`
`16· · · · A· · I don't recall.
`
`17· · · · Q· · So directing your attention to your CV,
`
`18· ·Exhibit 1004, you have a heading that says
`
`19· ·Highlights?
`
`20· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`21· · · · Q· · And under that, it says, in part,
`
`22· ·provides the basis for effective and efficient
`
`23· ·patent non-infringement and invalidation analysis;
`
`24· ·is that correct?
`
`25· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`17
`
`
`
`Page 18
`·1· · · · Q· · Is it fair to say that the focus of your
`
`·2· ·consulting work in connection with your company,
`
`·3· ·Harbor Falls, Inc., has been in connection with the
`
`·4· ·assisting -- with defending charges of patent
`
`·5· ·infringement?
`
`·6· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`·7· · · · Q· · Is there some reason that you focus on
`
`·8· ·the defense side?
`
`·9· · · · A· · Yes, because that's where 90 percent of
`
`10· ·the work I believe I've worked on is defense.
`
`11· · · · Q· · Is most of that work from ARRIS?
`
`12· · · · A· · Yes.
`
`13· · · · Q· · Midway in your CV it says that your
`
`14· ·experience in connection with your work at Harbor
`
`15· ·Falls, Inc., includes identification of key patent
`
`16· ·terms in claim construction; is that right?
`
`17· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`18· · · · Q· · And you identified key patent terms for
`
`19· ·construction in connection with this case; is that
`
`20· ·right?
`
`21· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`22· · · · Q· · Are you the only principal at Harbor
`
`23· ·Falls, Inc.?
`
`24· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`25· · · · Q· · So it's your company essentially?
`
`18
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`·2· · · · Q· · Do you have any employees?
`
`·3· · · · A· · No, sir.
`
`Page 19
`
`·4· · · · Q· · Let me show you a copy of your
`
`·5· ·declaration which is Exhibit 1003 from the IPR.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·Mr. McNally, can you identify that as a
`
`·7· ·copy of your declaration?
`
`·8· · · · A· · It appears to be a copy of my
`
`·9· ·declaration, sir.
`
`10· · · · Q· · Do you recognize your signature at the
`
`11· ·last page, 176?
`
`12· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`13· · · · Q· · Did you sign it on June 6th, 2016?
`
`14· · · · A· · It appears so, sir.
`
`15· · · · Q· · Okay.· And did you review the declaration
`
`16· ·before you signed it?
`
`17· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`18· · · · Q· · And you reviewed it to the extent you
`
`19· ·noted earlier in preparation for your deposition,
`
`20· ·right?
`
`21· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`22· · · · Q· · Okay.· Have you ever noticed any errors
`
`23· ·in your declaration?
`
`24· · · · A· · I noticed one error when I was
`
`25· ·re-reviewing it.
`
`19
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q· · What was that error, please?
`
`·2· · · · A· · On Page 17 of the declaration.
`
`·3· · · · Q· · Yes.
`
`Page 20
`
`·4· · · · A· · On the very, very last sentence, 97-191R1
`
`·5· ·should be corrected to 97-161R1.
`
`·6· · · · Q· · All right.· Thank you.
`
`·7· · · · · · ·Anything else?
`
`·8· · · · A· · No, sir.
`
`·9· · · · Q· · Okay.· You also noted that you had
`
`10· ·reviewed the petition filed in this case; is that
`
`11· ·right?
`
`12· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`13· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did you notice any errors in the
`
`14· ·petition?
`
`15· · · · A· · No, sir.
`
`16· · · · Q· · So at Page 34 of your -- I'm sorry,
`
`17· ·Paragraph 34 of your declaration, which is
`
`18· ·Exhibit 21, there's a section on Claim
`
`19· ·Construction, correct?
`
`20· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`21· · · · Q· · And you state:· "I have been asked to
`
`22· ·offer my opinion about the broadest reasonable
`
`23· ·construction, in light of the '404 Patent
`
`24· ·specification and prosecution history, for the
`
`25· ·claim terms that are discussed below."
`
`20
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·Were you given the claim terms to be
`
`·2· ·construed or did you come up with those on your
`
`Page 21
`
`·3· ·own?
`
`·4· · · · A· · I think it was a -- if I recall, I
`
`·5· ·believe that it was jointly discussed that these
`
`·6· ·are the terms to construe.
`
`·7· · · · Q· · Okay.· And that was with counsel here
`
`·8· ·from the Thomas Horstemeyer law firm; is that
`
`·9· ·right?
`
`10· · · · A· · I recall having conversations with Bob
`
`11· ·Starr and Carol.· I do not recall discussions with
`
`12· ·the law firm here, but that's not to say that, you
`
`13· ·know, there's something I'm not recalling.
`
`14· · · · Q· · Did you have conversations with Bob Starr
`
`15· ·and Carol outside of other counsel?
`
`16· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`17· · · · Q· · Is Mr. Starr, forgive me, is he an
`
`18· ·attorney?
`
`19· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`20· · · · · · ·MR. STARR:· Yes.
`
`21· · · · · · ·MR. WIMBISCUS:· Okay, very good.· Thank
`
`22· ·you.
`
`23· · · · · · ·MR. GRESHAM:· Just for the record, both
`
`24· ·Mr. Starr and Ms. Ansley are attorneys.
`
`25· · · · · · ·MR. WIMBISCUS:· Thank you very much.
`
`21
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. WIMBISCUS:
`
`Page 22
`
`·2· · · · Q· · Did you arrive at terms then that you
`
`·3· ·thought were appropriate for construction in order
`
`·4· ·to understand the meaning of the claims and apply
`
`·5· ·the claims to the prior art?
`
`·6· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`·7· · · · Q· · Are those the constructions that are set
`
`·8· ·forth in your declaration?
`
`·9· · · · A· · I don't understand your question.
`
`10· · · · Q· · The terms that you identified as
`
`11· ·appropriate for construction and important in
`
`12· ·applying the claims of the prior art, those claim
`
`13· ·terms are what you construed in your declaration,
`
`14· ·yes?
`
`15· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`16· · · · Q· · Thank you.
`
`17· · · · · · ·Let me direct your attention to Page 10,
`
`18· ·Paragraph 15 of your declaration, Exhibit 1003.
`
`19· ·You identified Materials Considered?
`
`20· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`21· · · · Q· · All right.· And you considered
`
`22· ·IPR2014-00891 Decision; is that correct?
`
`23· · · · A· · It appears so, sir.
`
`24· · · · Q· · Okay.· Did you find that to be relevant;
`
`25· ·and if so, how?
`
`22
`
`
`
`Page 23
`·1· · · · A· · I do not recall.· I did not review that
`
`·2· ·prior to today, so it's over a year ago, so I can't
`
`·3· ·recall.
`
`·4· · · · Q· · Do you recall relying upon anything from
`
`·5· ·that decision?
`
`·6· · · · A· · I would have to go back and review it.
`
`·7· ·As I mentioned earlier, I did not review anything
`
`·8· ·that did not pertain to the '323, the '725, the
`
`·9· ·ADSL Standard, and of course, the '404 patent.
`
`10· · · · Q· · Okay, very good.· Thank you.
`
`11· · · · · · ·All right.· Let me direct your attention,
`
`12· ·please, to Page 12 of your declaration at
`
`13· ·Paragraph 18.· There is a sentence in the middle of
`
`14· ·the paragraph that recites:· "When a DSL modem
`
`15· ·initializes, it goes through a lengthy process to
`
`16· ·characterize each frequency carrier's
`
`17· ·characteristics on a subscriber loop and the
`
`18· ·resulting transmitter and receiver settings."
`
`19· · · · · · ·What are frequency carrier's
`
`20· ·characteristics on a subscriber loop?
`
`21· · · · A· · At a very, very high level would be the
`
`22· ·frequency response over the transmission band.· It
`
`23· ·can result in phase distortions frequency, it can
`
`24· ·result in attenuation, it can result in echos.
`
`25· · · · Q· · Does the term "frequency carrier's
`
`23
`
`
`
`·1· ·characteristics on a subscriber loop" mean loop
`
`Page 24
`
`·2· ·characteristics?
`
`·3· · · · A· · Could you use the term in a sentence,
`
`·4· ·please?
`
`·5· · · · Q· · Well, it's your -- I'm reading back a
`
`·6· ·sentence from your declaration and I'm asking you
`
`·7· ·if "frequency carrier's characteristics on a
`
`·8· ·subscriber loop" are meant to include -- or refer
`
`·9· ·to loop characteristics?
`
`10· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`11· · · · Q· · And then your sentence says -- also
`
`12· ·refers to resulting transmitter and receiver
`
`13· ·settings.· What do you mean by that term?
`
`14· · · · A· · One example would be to determine the
`
`15· ·modulation that would be used for a particular
`
`16· ·carrier as one.
`
`17· · · · Q· · What about bit allocation parameters,
`
`18· ·would that be another term?
`
`19· · · · A· · That's essentially the modulation
`
`20· ·technique.· If you're QAM16 versus, like, QAM64,
`
`21· ·you would have the different number of bits per
`
`22· ·symbol.
`
`23· · · · Q· · Would fine gains also be another
`
`24· ·resulting transmitter and receiver setting?
`
`25· · · · A· · It would certainly be a receiver setting.
`
`24
`
`
`
`Page 25
`·1· · · · Q· · What does the term "initialization" mean
`
`·2· ·in the context of DSL modems?
`
`·3· · · · A· · To go through what is required prior to
`
`·4· ·resuming normal operation.· Going through multiple
`
`·5· ·steps to resume normal operation.
`
`·6· · · · Q· · By "normal operation," do you mean full
`
`·7· ·power operation?
`
`·8· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`·9· · · · Q· · Okay.· And can you be a little bit more
`
`10· ·precise when you say "multiple steps to resume
`
`11· ·normal operation"?· What are the multiple steps?
`
`12· · · · A· · I would probably, first of all, refer to
`
`13· ·the ADSL Chapter 12 that basically goes through all
`
`14· ·of the initialization for DSL modems.
`
`15· · · · Q· · Okay.· And that's the multiple steps that
`
`16· ·you are referring to to resume full power modem,
`
`17· ·correct?
`
`18· · · · A· · That would be a subset of the multiple
`
`19· ·steps.
`
`20· · · · Q· · What information is obtained during this
`
`21· ·initialization process?
`
`22· · · · A· · Information such as the modulation or the
`
`23· ·number of the bit rate is obtained and gain
`
`24· ·settings are obtained as a few.
`
`25· · · · Q· · Are loop characteristics obtained?
`
`25
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A· · Yes.· And the loop characteristics
`
`Page 26
`
`·2· ·include those factors -- or those factors influence
`
`·3· ·or the loop characteristics influence the
`
`·4· ·determination of those factors.
`
`·5· · · · Q· · Can you explain how loop characteristics
`
`·6· ·influence the determination of fine gain or bit
`
`·7· ·allocation parameters?
`
`·8· · · · A· · Certainly.· The length of the loop would
`
`·9· ·affect the gain of a signal or the attenuation of a
`
`10· ·signal.
`
`11· · · · Q· · All right.· And what are some other loop
`
`12· ·characteristics?· Some other loop characteristics
`
`13· ·other than length of the loop?
`
`14· · · · A· · Capacitance, resistive, inductive factors
`
`15· ·on the loop.
`
`16· · · · Q· · Anything else?
`
`17· · · · A· · Interference.
`
`18· · · · Q· · Okay.· Can you identify any other loop
`
`19· ·characteristics?
`
`20· · · · A· · Not at this time.· I mean, I could refer
`
`21· ·to the standard.
`
`22· · · · Q· · Would it help if I gave you a copy of the
`
`23· ·standard?
`
`24· · · · A· · Sure.
`
`25· · · · Q· · Okay.
`
`26
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A· · The bit error rate would be a
`
`Page 27
`
`·2· ·characteristic.
`
`·3· · · · Q· · Okay.· I'm going to hand you a copy of
`
`·4· ·the 1995 ADSL Standard previously marked as
`
`·5· ·Exhibit 1009.
`
`·6· · · · A· · So direct you to Page 9.
`
`·7· · · · Q· · Okay.
`
`·8· · · · A· · Paragraph 6, which begins with Each
`
`·9· ·bearer channel shall be individually assigned to an
`
`10· ·ADSL sub-channel for transport, and the ADSL
`
`11· ·sub-channel rate shall be configured during the
`
`12· ·initialization and training procedures to match the
`
`13· ·bearer rate.
`
`14· · · · · · ·Excuse me, I was off a paragraph.· Let me
`
`15· ·rephrase.
`
`16· · · · · · ·The maximum net data capacity of an ADSL
`
`17· ·system will depend on the characteristics of the
`
`18· ·loop on which the system is deployed and on certain
`
`19· ·configurable options that affect overhead (see note
`
`20· ·3).
`
`21· · · · · · ·Note 3:· One part of the ADSL
`
`22· ·initialization and training sequence estimates the
`
`23· ·loop characteristics to determine whether the
`
`24· ·number of bytes per Discrete MultiTone frame
`
`25· ·required for the requested configuration's
`
`27
`
`
`
`Page 28
`·1· ·aggregate data rate can be transmitted across the
`
`·2· ·given loop.· The net data rate is then the
`
`·3· ·aggregate data rate minus the ADSL system overhead.
`
`·4· ·Part of the ADSL system overhead is dependent upon
`
`·5· ·the configurable options, such as discussed of user
`
`·6· ·data streams to interleaving or non-interleaving
`
`·7· ·datas within the buffers from the ADSL frame (as
`
`·8· ·discussed in 6.2, 6.4.2, 7.2, and 7.4.2), and part
`
`·9· ·of it is fixed.
`
`10· · · · · · ·So clearly the -- before the Note 3, that
`
`11· ·we can essentially see that we have a different
`
`12· ·data rate depending upon loop characteristics.
`
`13· · · · · · ·If we then move to Page 21 -- go to Page
`
`14· ·87 of the standard which is titled Chapter 12,
`
`15· ·Initialization.
`
`16· · · · Q· · Yes.
`
`17· · · · A· · If I go to the second to last paragraph.
`
`18· · · · · · ·Determination of channel attribute values
`
`19· ·and establishment of transmission characteristics
`
`20· ·requires that each transceiver produce, and
`
`21· ·appropriately respond to, a specific set of
`
`22· ·precisely-timed signals.· This clause describes
`
`23· ·these initialization signals, along with the rules
`
`24· ·that determine the proper starting and ending time
`
`25· ·for each signal.· This description is made through
`
`28
`
`
`
`Page 29
`·1· ·the definition of initialization states in which
`
`·2· ·each transceiver will reside, and the definition of
`
`·3· ·initialization signals.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·If we go up then to the second full
`
`·5· ·paragraph.· In order to maximize the throughput and
`
`·6· ·reliability of this link, ADSL transceivers shall
`
`·7· ·determine certain relevant attributes for a
`
`·8· ·connecting channel and establish transmission and
`
`·9· ·processing characteristics suitable for that
`
`10· ·channel.· The time line at figure 29, blah, blah,
`
`11· ·blah, blah, blah.
`
`12· · · · · · ·Certain processing and transmission
`
`13· ·characteristics can also be established at each
`
`14· ·receiver during this time.· During the exchange
`
`15· ·process each receiver shares with its corresponding
`
`16· ·far-end transmitter certain transmission settings
`
`17· ·that it expects to see.· Specifically, each
`
`18· ·receiver communicates to its far-end transmitter
`
`19· ·the number of bits and the relative power levels,
`
`20· ·i.e., gains to be used for each DMT sub-carrier.
`
`21· · · · Q· · Okay.
`
`22· · · · A· · And then in my expert report, and if you
`
`23· ·wish me to go through these, I will, I basically
`
`24· ·identify on Page 40 of my expert report the
`
`25· ·additional cites in the standard where the bit rate
`
`29
`
`
`
`·1· ·and the gains are disclosed.
`
`·2· · · · Q· · Okay.· So let me try to take that in
`
`·3· ·bites.· Let's go back to Page 9 of the ADSL
`
`·4· ·Standard, Exhibit 1009.
`
`Page 30
`
`·5· · · · · · ·From what -- you referred to Note 3; is
`
`·6· ·that right?
`
`·7· · · · A· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · Q· · Okay.· And the first sentence of Note 3
`
`·9· ·states:· "One part of the ADSL initialization and
`
`10· ·training sequence estimates the loop
`
`11· ·characteristics to determine whether the number of
`
`12· ·bytes per Discrete MultiTone (DMT) frame required
`
`13· ·for the requested configuration's aggregate data
`
`14· ·rate can be transmitted across the given loop."
`
`15· · · · · · ·Did I read that accurately?
`
`16· · · · A· · I believe so.
`
`17· · · · Q· · Okay.· So the ADSL Standard here of note
`
`18· ·3, Page 9, is referring to an initial --
`
`19· ·initialization and training sequence that estimates
`
`20· ·the loop characteristics, right?
`
`21· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`22· · · · Q· · And that estimate is used to determine
`
`23· ·whether the number of bytes per Discrete MultiTone
`
`24· ·frame required for the requested configuration's
`
`25· ·aggregate data rate can be transmitted across the
`
`30
`
`
`
`·1· ·given loop; is that fair?
`
`·2· · · · A· · Yes, sir.
`
`Page 31
`
`·3· · · · Q· · So first an estimate is done as to the
`
`·4· ·loop characteristics
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