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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC., TEVA PHARMACEUTICALS
` USA, INC. and AKORN INC.,
` Petitioners,
` v.
` ALLERGAN, INC.,
` Patent Owner
` ________________________
`
` Case IPR2016-01127(US 8,685,930 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01128(US 8,629,111 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01129(US 8,624,556 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01130(US 8,633,162 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01131(US 8,648,048 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01132(US 9,248,191 B2)
` ***PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL***
` DEPOSITION OF THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` New York, New York
` June 7, 2017
`
` Reported by:
` KATHY S. KLEPFER, RMR, RPR, CRR, CLR
` JOB NO. 124936
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`0001
`
`MYLAN - EXHIBIT 1036
`Mylan Pharmaceuticals Inc. et al. v. Allergan, Inc.
`IPR2016-01127, -01128, -01129, -01130, -01131, & -01132
`
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`Page 1
`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` _________________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ________________________
`MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS INC., TEVA PHARMACEUTICALS
` USA, INC. and AKORN INC.,
` Petitioners,
` v.
` ALLERGAN, INC.,
` Patent Owner
` ________________________
`
` Case IPR2016-01127(US 8,685,930 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01128(US 8,629,111 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01129(US 8,624,556 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01130(US 8,633,162 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01131(US 8,648,048 B2)
` Case IPR2016-01132(US 9,248,191 B2)
` ***PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL***
` DEPOSITION OF THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` New York, New York
` June 7, 2017
`
` Reported by:
` KATHY S. KLEPFER, RMR, RPR, CRR, CLR
` JOB NO. 124936
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`0001
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`MYLAN - EXHIBIT 1036
`Mylan Pharmaceuticals Inc. et al. v. Allergan, Inc.
`IPR2016-01127, -01128, -01129, -01130, -01131, & -01132
`
`PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
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`Page 2
`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` June 7, 2017
`
` Deposition of THORSTEINN LOFTSSON,
` PH.D., held at Wilson, Sonsini Goodrich &
` Rosati, 1301 Avenue of the Americas, New
` York, New York, before Kathy S. Klepfer, a
` Registered Professional Reporter, Registered
` Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter,
` Certified Livenote Reporter, and Notary Public
` of the State of New York.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
` Attorneys for Petitioner Mylan Pharmaceuticals
` 701 Fifth Avenue
` Seattle, Washington 98104
` BY: JAD MILLS, ESQ.
` - and -
` 900 South Capital of Texas Highway
` Las Cimas IV
` Austin, Texas 78746
` BY: ANNA PHILLIPS, ESQ.
`
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` Attorneys for Patent Owner Allergan and the Witness
` 3200 RBC Plaza
` 60 South Sixth Street
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` BY: MICHAEL KANE, ESQ.
` TASHA FRANCIS, PH.D., ESQ.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
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` A P P E A R A N C E S:
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` CARLSON, CASPERS, VANDENBURGH, LINDQUIST &
` SCHUMAN
` Attorneys for Teva Pharmaceuticals USA, Inc.
` 225 South Sixth Street
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` BY: GARY SPEIER, ESQ. (Telephonically)
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D., called as a
` witness, having been duly sworn by a Notary
` Public, was examined and testified as
` follows:
` EXAMINATION BY
` MR. MILLS:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Please state your name and place of
` business for the record.
` A. My name is Thorsteinn Loftsson, and
` I'm a professor at the University of Iceland.
` Q. Dr. Loftsson, have you been deposed
` before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times have you been deposed
` before?
` A. Several times. I don't remember.
` Four or five times.
` Q. Have any of those times been in a
` patent case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many of those have been in a
` patent case?
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. All of them.
` Q. For any of the times that you have
` been deposed before, has that been in an IPR
` proceeding?
` A. Never.
` Q. Have all of those depositions occurred
` in the United States?
` A. No.
` Q. How many of those prior depositions
` occurred in the United States?
` A. I think two.
` Q. I'm going to explain, just to make
` sure we all understand each other, a couple of
` procedures for the deposition.
` A. Okay.
` Q. It's very important that we make sure
` that we don't speak over one another.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So it's important that you let me
` complete my question before you begin to answer
` and that you give your -- the attorney for
` Allergan an opportunity to object if they need
` to.
` A. Yes.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` Q. Is English your first language, Dr.
` Loftsson?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you require a translator for the
` deposition today?
` A. No.
` Q. I'm going to assume throughout the
` deposition that you understand the questions
` that I ask you unless you tell me differently.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is there any reason that you can't
` offer your best, most complete testimony today?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you previously, prior to this IPR
` proceeding, served as an expert on behalf of
` Allergan?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you previously offered testimony,
` prior to this IPR proceeding, on behalf of
` Allergan?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Once.
` Q. And can you tell me generally what
`
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` that was in relation to?
` A. It was regarding eyedrops.
` Q. What type of eyedrops were involved in
` the -- in your prior testimony on behalf of
` Allergan?
` A. An anti-glaucoma drug.
` Q. Is there a brand name for the
` anti-glaucoma drug?
` A. I don't recall it right now.
` Q. And you offered a deposition testimony
` on behalf of Allergan for the anti-glaucoma
` drug?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And other than the deposition
` testimony that you offered on behalf of Allergan
` for the anti-glaucoma drug, you haven't offered
` any other testimony on behalf of Allergan; is
` that correct?
` A. I don't recall it, no.
` Q. You don't recall offering any other
` testimony on behalf of Allergan prior to this
` IPR proceeding aside from the anti-glaucoma
` drug; is that correct?
` A. Just this case. I had a declaration
`
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`Page 9
`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` previously two weeks ago. I had a deposition
` here in New York two weeks ago in the same case
` on behalf of Allergan, and then two or three
` years ago I had this deposition on an
` anti-glaucoma drug.
` Q. Is it correct that, prior to your
` deposition today, you have twice previously
` testified on behalf of Allergan?
` A. Yes, on this -- I considered that the
` same case, but maybe it's not. It's on the same
` drug. I did that two weeks -- two weeks ago or
` so, and then it was three years ago or so I had
` a deposition in another case.
` Q. Your deposition two weeks ago was for
` the same anti-glaucoma drug as your testimony
` three years ago?
` A. No. It's different.
` Q. Your deposition two weeks ago was for
` the same drug involved in these IPR proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that drug is Restasis?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you previously served as an expert
` on behalf of Allergan regarding Restasis,
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` correct?
` A. Yes. Sorry. Yes, I -- but my
` understanding was that this was the same case,
` but maybe these are two separate cases on the
` same drug.
` Q. Okay. Do you have an understanding as
` to whether your prior deposition was for a
` district court proceeding?
` A. I don't know. It was for a court
` hearing, but I don't -- it will be a court
` hearing in Texas, I believe sometime this fall.
` Q. If we call the other case the Texas
` case and we call these the IPRs --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- will you understand the difference?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you understand that those are two
` different sets of proceedings, correct?
` A. Yes. Okay.
` Q. Did you offer expert reports in the
` Texas case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And your expert reports in the Texas
` case contain your opinions for the Texas case,
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Your opinions for the IPR proceedings
` are contained in your declarations that you
` submitted in the IPR proceedings, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Your declarations are not exactly the
` same thing as your reports from the Texas case,
` correct?
` A. Not exactly, no.
` Q. And your opinions for the IPR
` proceedings are limited to the opinions you
` offered in your declarations in the IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. Yes.
` MR. KANE: Let him finish before you
` speak.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` Q. Other than the anti-glaucoma
` engagement and the Restasis engagement, have you
` previously worked with Allergan?
` A. No, I have not worked with them. I
` twice have given seminars at Allergan, but that
` was a long, long time ago.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` Q. Where did you give seminars for
` Allergan?
` A. It was in California.
` Q. Was it at Allergan headquarters --
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- when you gave two seminars for
` Allergan?
` A. Yeah, I think it was two separate
` visits to Allergan, and I gave lectures, one
` lecture each time.
` Q. How long was each visit to Allergan?
` A. Oh, just a few hours.
` Q. And you came to Allergan from Iceland?
` A. Yeah, I think once I -- I think in
` both cases I had some other businesses in the
` U.S. It's a long time ago. I don't recall it
` exactly, but I think it was a part of a -- of
` probably a conference trip or something to the
` U.S.
` Q. Allergan paid your expenses to come to
` the United States from Iceland?
` A. No.
` Q. Allergan paid you to provide the
` seminars at Allergan?
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. No.
` Q. Correct?
` A. They did not.
` Q. You provided the seminars to Allergan
` without receiving any compensation of any kind?
` A. Well, at that time, I wanted to get in
` contact with Allergan because of some technology
` I was developing, so I was introducing my
` technology to Allergan.
` Q. Was this technology related to
` cyclodextrin?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when did these visits take place?
` A. Ten, fifteen years ago.
` Q. That's the 2002 to 2007 timeframe?
` A. Around the year 2000, yes.
` Q. So you visited Allergan twice around
` the year 2000?
` A. Yes. I don't remember exactly, but it
` was sometime there.
` Q. And the purpose of your visit to
` Allergan -- I'm going to start over. The
` purpose of your visits to Allergan around the
` year 2000 was to pitch to Allergan regarding
`
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` your cyclodextrin technology?
` MR. KANE: Objection to form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you were visiting Allergan because
` you hoped that they would support your research
` in the cyclodextrin?
` A. We were -- I was trying to get their
` interest in my project, yes.
` Q. Did Allergan end up investing in your
` research?
` A. No.
` Q. After your visits to Allergan around
` the year 2000, did you subsequently have contact
` with Allergan prior to being engaged for these
` IPR proceedings?
` A. No.
` Q. Allergan is paying you for your
` assistance in these proceedings, correct?
` A. They are paying $400 an hour, yes.
` Q. How many hours have you spent
` assisting Allergan in these IPR proceedings?
` A. It is between 50 and 100 hours. It's
` more than 50, less than 100, but I don't know
` exactly.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` Q. Does that make you current through
` today?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Dr. Loftsson, what did you do to
` prepare for your deposition today?
` A. What did I do? I read through my
` declaration and some of the patents and papers,
` I met with Allergan lawyers yesterday for a few
` hours, and then I just went to sleep.
` Q. Were the attorneys with whom you met
` the two attorneys sitting in the room today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And are they representing you today in
` the deposition?
` A. Sorry, could you repeat the question?
` Q. Are these attorneys representing you
` today in the deposition?
` A. They are representing Allergan, yes.
` MR. KANE: And we're representing you,
` Dr. Loftsson.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
` Q. You said that you reviewed some
` patents and some papers. Can you be a little
` bit more specific about what you reviewed?
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. I think at the end of my deposition,
` there is a list of patents and papers, so I had
` a look at some of them which I thought were
` relevant for today, but I don't remember all of
` them. I think the patent -- I think these
` patents were, most of them, I think they were
` these Allergan patents, both the Ding patent and
` the patents in question over here.
` And then there were some relevant
` publications, the Sall article on the clinical
` studies, and I don't remember exactly which ones
` I did read. Some of them I just glanced through
` and I didn't do much about them.
` Q. Did anything that you reviewed change
` any of the opinions from your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you come to this deposition
` prepared to offer additional opinions that are
` not contained in your declarations?
` A. No.
` Q. I'm going to go back to the rules
` about the deposition. Just foundationally,
` you're a professor, I understand?
` A. Yes.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` Q. Do you teach students at the
` university?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I presume that when you ask your --
` that sometimes you ask your students questions
` as part of teaching them?
` A. Yes.
` Q. As when you ask them a question, you
` expect them to answer the question you have
` posed to them?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If they try to answer a different
` question, you might -- they might not get a very
` good grade, correct?
` A. Well, that is -- that depends. I
` wouldn't say that. If they give me an educated
` answer which I like, I of course will -- it will
` have a positive effect. So it depends. It's
` not straightforward.
` Q. So the analogy may be imperfect, but
` what I want to tell you is here in the
` deposition the way that it works is I will pose
` questions to you and you need to answer my
` questions.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. Yes.
` Q. It may be that you have something else
` you would like to talk about, and it's perfectly
` fine that you would like to talk about something
` else, but you have to focus on my question and
` answering my question.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And I just want to make sure, when you
` submitted your declarations in these IPR
` proceedings, you had an adequate opportunity to
` include all of your opinions in the testimony
` that you wanted to give in those declarations,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. There wasn't anything that you were
` holding back and not including in your
` declarations, correct?
` A. I don't believe so, no.
` Q. So I'm handing you now what has
` previously been marked as Allergan Exhibit 2025.
` This particular one is an IPR2016-01127.
` Do you recognize this document?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is this the declaration that you
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` offered in IPR2016-01127?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you also submitted five other
` declarations; is that correct?
` A. Over the years, yes.
` Q. I'm referring specifically to the --
` there are six patents in the IPR proceedings,
` and you submitted one declaration for each
` patent, correct?
` A. Yes, I think so. Yes.
` Q. Those declarations are essentially
` identical to one another, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So I do have at least one copy of the
` other declarations, but if it's okay with you,
` we're just going to focus on the one filed in
` 1127.
` If at any time you need to see one of
` the other declarations to answer a question,
` just let me know, but I don't expect that you
` will need them.
` A. (Witness nods.)
` Q. You have to speak out loud.
` A. Yes.
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` Q. If you can take a look at page 23 of
` your declaration. Is that your signature?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you dated the declaration March
` 16, 2017, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So whenever I ask you questions about
` your declaration, we understand that that refers
` to all six of your declarations in these IPRs,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you were talking before about
` Exhibit B to your declaration.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you indicated that you reviewed
` the six patents at issue. Those are the first
` six items listed in Exhibit B; is that correct?
` A. Yes, I glanced through them. I didn't
` read them carefully, but I glanced through them,
` yes.
` Q. And you also mentioned the Ding
` patent. Is that the '979 patent, Exhibit 1006?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. And you also mentioned the Sall
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` publication, which shows up on the second page
` of your Exhibit B and is Exhibit 1007, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Other than those exhibits that we have
` just identified, are there any other exhibits
` from your Exhibit B that you reviewed in
` preparation for your deposition?
` A. I see here Declaration of Dr. Attar.
` I had a look at that yesterday, and also the
` declaration of Schiffman, I had a look at that,
` and the declaration of Mansoor Amiji, I had a
` brief look at that also.
` Q. And with those sole additions, we now
` have the complete list of documents that you
` looked at in preparation for your deposition,
` correct?
` A. To the best of my knowledge, yes.
` Q. Who is Rhett Schiffman?
` A. I think he is one of the -- or was at
` least one of the scientists working at Allergan.
` Q. Was Dr. Schiffman involved in the
` clinical trials for Restasis?
` MR. KANE: Object to the form.
` A. I don't recall it. I'm sorry, I don't
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` recall if he was -- he was involved in it or
` not, but, sorry, I don't recall it.
` Q. When you reviewed the declaration of
` Dr. Schiffman yesterday, was that the first time
` that you reviewed that declaration?
` A. No, I had a look at it before, but
` maybe not very carefully. I glanced through it
` before in preparation of my deposition.
` Q. When you reviewed the Schiffman
` declaration prior to filing your declarations,
` you merely glanced through the Schiffman
` declaration, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And then yesterday you spent
` additional time studying the Schiffman
` declaration, correct?
` MR. KANE: Object to the form.
` A. I didn't study it. I glanced through
` it. I did study Attar, Dr. Attar's declaration,
` and then I glanced through Dr. Schiffman's
` declaration, but I didn't read it carefully at
` all.
` Q. Did you gain any new understanding
` regarding the Schiffman declaration from your
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` study -- your review of it yesterday?
` A. No.
` Q. Now, you mentioned that you reviewed
` the Attar declaration yesterday. Was that the
` first time that you had reviewed the Attar
` declaration?
` A. No. No.
` MR. KANE: Let him finish.
` Q. When had you previously reviewed the
` Attar declaration?
` A. In preparation of my declaration.
` Q. And did you, prior to completing your
` declarations, thoroughly study the Attar
` declaration?
` A. It was not much to study. It was very
` short, didn't give much information, so I -- I
` read through it, but I didn't study it
` thoroughly maybe, but I did study it.
` Q. Did you gain any new understanding
` regarding the Attar declaration during your
` review of it yesterday?
` A. No.
` Q. You mentioned that you reviewed
` yesterday the Amiji declaration, correct?
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. Reviewed. I just glanced through it
` very briefly.
` Q. And was yesterday the first time that
` you had reviewed the Amiji declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. When had you previously reviewed the
` Amiji declaration?
` A. In preparation of my declaration.
` Q. And when you were preparing your
` declarations, how much time did you spend
` reviewing the Amiji declaration?
` A. I think it was several hours I spent.
` I don't remember exactly, but could be five
` hours.
` Q. You understand that there are six
` Amiji declarations?
` A. No; I just saw one.
` Q. Which Amiji declaration did you see?
` A. This Exhibit 1002.
` Q. Which patent was specifically
` addressed in the Amiji declaration that you
` reviewed when you were preparing your
` declarations in these IPR proceedings?
` A. I don't recall it, but I thought it
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` was patent '111, 8,629,111, U.S. Patent, but I
` don't recall it exactly. I'm sorry.
` Q. And so with the proviso that you think
` it was the '111 patent, but you're not certain?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You didn't review any of the other
` Amiji declarations prior to completing your
` declarations in these IPR proceedings, correct?
` A. No.
` Q. I just want to make sure the record is
` clear. My question was probably confusing
` there.
` Your review of the Amiji declarations
` prior to completing your IPR declarations was
` limited to only a single declaration, which you
` believe was the Amiji declaration relating to
` the '111 patent, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. These documents in Exhibit B, these
` are the materials that you considered in coming
` to your opinions in these IPR proceedings,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is this a complete listing of all
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` documents that you considered in coming to your
` opinions in the IPR proceedings?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Are there any materials from the Texas
` case that you considered that are not listed in
` Exhibit B to your declarations here that you
` considered in reaching your opinions in the IPR
` proceedings?
` A. I don't recall it. I don't know. I
` don't remember, but I think it was very similar
` or almost identical, but I think it's -- but I
` am not sure, 100 percent sure.
` Q. To the best of your knowledge sitting
` here today, it's your belief that you did not
` consider any materials from the district court
` litigation, the Texas case, if they are not
` listed in Exhibit B to your declarations in the
` IPR proceedings, correct?
` A. It could be one or two additional
` documents, but I don't remember it exactly. My
` declaration was a little bit longer, a little
` bit broader involving some additional things, so
` it might be a couple of other documents, but
` basically, it was the same documents as listed
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` in Exhibit B.
` Q. And just for clarity, you used the
` word "declaration" just now.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. I think you were referring to your
` expert reports in the Texas case; is that
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Just for clarity, if we can try and
` use the word "report" if we're talking about the
` Texas case and "declarations" when we're talking
` about the IPRs; is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So your testimony is that you believe
` that your reports in the Texas case may have
` included some additional documents that you did
` not consider for the purposes of your IPR
` declarations, correct?
` A. It might be, but I am not sure. It
` might be. It was a broader, a little bit longer
` declaration -- report, so it might be.
` Q. If there is additional information in
` your expert reports in the Texas case that is
` not included in your declarations in the IPR
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` proceedings, you're not relying on any of that
` information for your opinions in the IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. No.
` Q. Just to be clear, no, you are not?
` A. No.
` Q. Sorry. I don't think you're trying to
` be difficult. I guess I can try and rephrase
` the question.
` My question was whether my statement
` was correct, and so when you said "no," it makes
` it sound like you're saying my statement is not
` correct.
` A. Your statement was correct.
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
` Okay. Referring you to Exhibit B in
` the list of patents, you also identify Exhibit
` 1010, the '607 patent, correct?
` A. 1010, yes.
` Q. And that's the Ding '607 patent,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is that a patent that you relied
` on in reaching your opinions in the IPR
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you also list the '586 patent,
` Exhibit 1009?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is that a patent that you relied
` on in reaching your opinions in the IPR
` proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in reaching your opinions in the
` IPR proceedings, did you understand that the
` Ding '607 patent was prior art on the patents at
` issue?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And just to be clear, when I use the
` word "patents at issue," you understand that I'm
` referring to the '903, the '111 patent, the '556
` patent, the '162 patent, the '048 patent and the
` '191 patent listed in your Appendix B, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When you were reaching your opinions
` in these IPR proceedings, did you understand
` that the Ding '979 patent, Exhibit 1006, is
` prior art to the patents at issue?
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`PARTIALLY CONFIDENTIAL - THORSTEINN LOFTSSON, PH.D.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in reaching your opinions in these
` IPR proceedings, did you understand that the
` '586 patent, Exhibit 1009, is prior art to the
` patents at issue?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Moving down, the articles and
` publications, you refer to Exhibit 1008, and you
` have it titled Sullivan, et al.?
` A. Yes.
` Q. That refers to a -- what I have called
` the Acheampong publication?
` A. Sorry, Ache- --
` Q. Acheampong.
` Let me ask you a different question.
` Do you have an understanding as to what Exhibit
` 1008 is?
` A. I remember this publication, but I
` need a copy of it to refresh my memory.
` Q. Do you have an understanding as to
` whether Exhibit 1008 is prior art to the patents
` at issue?
` A. Now I don't recall it because I need a
` copy of it. I don't recall it exactly.
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` Q. And we've been using the word "prior
` art." Just for purposes of clarity, what's your
` understanding of that term?
` A. Basically any publication prior to the
` patent application filed was in 2003.
` Q. And you're using the date September
` 15, 2003 as the date before which a
` publication -- if it published before that date,
` it's prior art, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you have an understanding as to
` whether Exhibit 2011 is prior art to the patents
` at issue?
` A. I don't recall the date of this
` publication. I need to see it to refresh
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