Telit Wireless Solutions Inc. and Telit Communications PLC Exh. 1110 p. 1
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`·1· ·IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`· · ·FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`·2· ·CASE NO.: C.A. No.: 12-033-RGA
`· · ·-------------------------------------------x
`·3· ·M2M SOLUTIONS, LLC, a Delaware limited
`· · ·liability company
`·4
`·5· · · · · · · · · · Plaintiff,
`·6· · · ·-against-
`·7
`· · ·MOTOROLA SOLUTIONS, INC. a Delaware
`·8· ·corporation, TELIT COMMUNICATIONS PLC,
`· · ·a United Kingdom public limited company,
`·9· ·and TELIT WIRELESS SOLUTIONS, INC., a
`· · ·Delaware corporation,
`10
`11· · · · · · · · · · Defendants.
`· · ·-------------------------------------------x
`12
`13
`14
`15· · · · · · · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of
`16· · · · · · · · · · · ·DR. RAY W. NETTLETON
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · New York, New York
`18· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·May 6, 2015
`19
`20
`21
`22· ·Reported By:
`23· ·Eileen Mulvenna
`24· ·CSR/RMR/CRR
`25· ·Job No.: 10016499
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`·1· ·A P P E A R A N C E S:
`·2
`·3· · · · FOLEY & LARDNER, LLP
`· · · · · Attorneys for Plaintiff
`·4· · · · · · · 111 Huntington Avenue
`· · · · · · · · Suite 2600
`·5· · · · · · · Boston, Massachusetts 02199-7610
`· · · · · BY:· ·MARC N. HENSCHKE, ESQ. of Counsel
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · -and-
`·7
`·8· · · · FOLEY & LARDNER, LLP
`· · · · · · · · 777 East Wisconsin Avenue
`·9· · · · · · · Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202-5306
`· · · · · BY:· ·JEFFREY N. COSTAKOS, ESQ.,
`10
`11
`12· · · · PEARL COHEN ZEDEK LATZER BARATZ, LLP
`· · · · · Attorneys for Telit
`13· · · · · · · 1500 Broadway
`· · · · · · · · New York, New York· 10036
`14· · · · BY:· ·GUY YONAY, ESQ.
`· · · · · · · · DAVID LOEWENSTEIN, ESQ.
`15· · · · · · · MILO EADAN, ESQ.
`16
`17
`· · · · · PAUL HASTINGS JANOFSKY & WALKER, LLP
`18· · · · Attorneys for Novatel
`· · · · · · · · 1117 S. California Avenue
`19· · · · · · · Palo Alto, California 94304
`· · · · · BY:· ·CHRIS KENNERLY, ESQ.
`20
`21
`22· ·A L S O· P R E S E N T:
`23· · · · · · · Jonathan Popham, Videographer
`24
`25
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
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`·1· ·(Continued)
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`·2· · · WITNESS· · · · · · EXAMINATION BY· · · · · ·PAGE
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
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`·3· · · DR. RAY NETTLETON
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · MR. YONAY· · · · · · · · · ·6
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`·4· ·Exhibit 5· · · ·No Bates numbers, Expert· · · · 98
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE· · · · · · · 314
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ·report of Kimmo Savolainen
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · MR. YONAY· · · · · · · · ·320
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
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`·8· · ·NETTLETON· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·9· ·Exhibit 1· · · ·No Bates numbers, Opening· · · ·32
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`10· · · · · · · · · ·Expert Report of Dr. Ray
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·W. Nettleton regarding
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`12· · · · · · · · · ·Telit's infringement of
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·the '010 patent
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`14· ·Exhibit 2· · · ·No Bates numbers, Reply· · · · ·32
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`15· · · · · · · · · ·Expert Report of Dr. Ray
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`16· · · · · · · · · ·W. Nettleton regarding
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`17· · · · · · · · · ·Telit's infringement of
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`18· · · · · · · · · ·the '010 patent
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`19· ·Exhibit 3· · · ·No Bates numbers, US· · · · · · 46
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`20· · · · · · · · · ·Patent No. 8,094,010
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`21· ·Exhibit 4· · · ·Bates Nos.· Telit 13194· · · · ·93
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`22· · · · · · · · · ·through 229,· Document
`
`23· · · · · · · · · ·entitled Running AT
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`24· · · · · · · · · ·Commands Remotely
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`25· · · · · · · · · ·Application Note
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`·6· · · · · · · · · ·in rebuttal to Dr.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · ·Nettleton and Mr.
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`·8· · · · · · · · · ·Bluestein
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`·9· ·Exhibit 6· · · ·No Bates numbers, Diagram· · · 137
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`10· ·Exhibit 7· · · ·Bates Nos. Telit 01105· · · · ·210
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·through 163, GE863 Product
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`12· · · · · · · · · ·Description
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`13· ·Exhibit 8· · · ·Bates Nos. Telit 08874,· · · · 212
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`14· · · · · · · · · ·09159 through 162, AT
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`15· · · · · · · · · ·Commands Reference Guide
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`16· · · · · · · · · ·excerpt
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`17· ·Exhibit 9· · · ·No Bates numbers,· · · · · · · 291
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`18· · · · · · · · · ·Preliminary Infringement
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`19· · · · · · · · · ·Contention Claim Chart,
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`20· · · · · · · · · ·January 18, 2013
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`Telit Wireless Solutions Inc. and Telit Communications PLC Exh. 1110 p. 2
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`·1· · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning.
`·2· ·We're on the record.
`·3· · · · · This is the video deposition of
`·4· ·Dr. Ray W. Nettleton in the matter of
`·5· ·M2M Solutions, LLC versus Motorola
`·6· ·Solutions, et al., Civil Action
`·7· ·No. 12-033-RGA, filed in the US
`·8· ·District Court for the District of
`·9· ·Delaware.
`10· · · · · This deposition is taking place
`11· ·at Pearl Cohen, 1500 Broadway, New York
`12· ·New York.
`13· · · · · Today's date is May 6, 2015, and
`14· ·the time is 9:33 a.m.
`15· · · · · My name is Jonathan Popham.· I'm
`16· ·the videographer representing Aptus
`17· ·Court Reporting.
`18· · · · · Video and audio will be recorded
`19· ·until all counsel have agreed to go off
`20· ·the record.
`21· · · · · Would all present please voice
`22· ·identify themselves for the record
`23· ·beginning with the witness.
`24· · · · · THE WITNESS:· My name's Ray
`25· ·Nettleton.
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·Dr. Nettleton, my name is Guy
`·2· ·Yonay.· I represent Telit.· I'll be taking
`·3· ·your deposition today.
`·4· · · · · · · · Have you been deposed before?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Many times.
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·How many is "many times"?
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Seven or eight.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Seven or eight times?
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Were those in an expert witness
`11· ·capacity?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·Let me explain to you a few
`14· ·ground rules just so we're clear on how to go
`15· ·about today.
`16· · · · · · · · I'm going to ask you questions.
`17· ·Please try to wait until the end of my
`18· ·question before you answer.· If there's
`19· ·anything unclear in my question, please feel
`20· ·free to ask me for some clarification of
`21· ·anything that you didn't understand in my
`22· ·question.
`23· · · · · · · · If at any time you need a break,
`24· ·please ask for one and if we're not in the
`25· ·middle of something, I'll break as soon as we
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`·1· · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· Guy Yonay of Pearl
`·2· · · · ·Cohen for Telit.
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. LOEWENSTEIN:· David
`·4· · · · ·Loewenstein for Telit.
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. EADAN:· Milo Eadan for
`·6· · · · ·Telit.
`·7· · · · · · · · CHRIS KENNERLY:· I'm Chris
`·8· · · · ·Kennerly with Paul Hastings for the
`·9· · · · ·Novatel defendants, observing.
`10· · · · · · · · MR. COSTAKOS:· Jeff Costakos,
`11· · · · ·Foley Lardner for M2M.
`12· · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· And Marc Henschke
`13· · · · ·from Foley & Lardner also for the
`14· · · · ·plaintiff, M2M.
`15· · · · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· The certified
`16· · · · ·court reporter is Eileen Mulvenna.
`17· · · · ·Would you please swear in the witness.
`18· ·RAY NETTLETON,
`19· · · having been duly sworn by Eileen Mulvenna,
`20· · · a Notary Public of the State of New York,
`21· · · was examined and testified as follows:
`22· ·EXAMINATION
`23· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Good morning.
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Good morning.
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`·1· ·reasonably can.
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Sure.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·And please make sure to give
`·4· ·your answers verbally so that your answers
`·5· ·are captured by the court reporter.
`·6· · · · · · · · Is that all clear so far?
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Good.
`·9· · · · · · · · Could you briefly describe your
`10· ·educational background?
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· I have a Ph.D. in
`12· ·electrical engineering from Purdue University
`13· ·and also a master's and a bachelor's.
`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·Where are those from?
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·The master's is from Purdue
`16· ·University also.· Bachelor's is from
`17· ·University of Dayton, D-A-Y-T-O-N.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·As in Dayton, Ohio?
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·And what are the bachelor's and
`21· ·master's degrees in?
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Electrical engineering.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are you currently affiliated
`24· ·with the University of Colorado?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, I am.
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·In what capacity?
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·As an adjunct associate
`·3· ·professor.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you teach courses in that
`·5· ·capacity?
`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·I still do from Southern
`·7· ·California.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are you teaching one this
`·9· ·semester?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Not now.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you teach one last semester?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·What course was that?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·Satellite communications.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you say adjunct professor?
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·And did you previously have
`18· ·other titles at the university?
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, I was a full-time associate
`20· ·professor for a couple of -- three years.
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·When did you become adjunct?
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·When I left -- when I left the
`23· ·position and became a full-time consultant.
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Time-wise, when was that?· How
`25· ·long ago was that?
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`·1· · · · · · · · Are any of those courses that
`·2· ·you've taught, for example, over the past ten
`·3· ·years ones that are relevant to the subject
`·4· ·matter of the patent we'll be talking about
`·5· ·today?
`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Which ones?
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·The cellular communications
`·9· ·ones.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Any other ones that you can
`11· ·think of that you mentioned?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·That's by far the most relevant.
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you specifically discuss
`14· ·machine-to-machine communications in that
`15· ·course?
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Not explicitly.
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·What's the connection then?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, cellular communications is
`19· ·the same whether it's machine to machine or
`20· ·person to person.· After all, most cellular
`21· ·communications today is -- is text messaging.
`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Right.· So text messaging on a
`23· ·phone same as text messaging with a
`24· ·machine-to-machine device?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, except the language would
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm thinking 2005.
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·So about ten years?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·And over those ten years, how
`·5· ·many semesters have you taught courses as
`·6· ·opposed to not taught courses at the
`·7· ·university?
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·I think probably four or five
`·9· ·I've taught.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Taught about four or five
`11· ·courses in the past ten years?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·You mentioned satellite
`14· ·communications.
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you remember the other
`17· ·courses you've taught over the past ten
`18· ·years?
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah, wireless area -- local
`20· ·area networks and cellular networks.· And
`21· ·also some more elementary courses.
`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Telemetry courses?
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Elementary.
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Elementary.· Excuse me.· I've
`25· ·got M2M on the brain.
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`·1· ·be different.· You text in English to other
`·2· ·people and in machine-ish to other machines.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·Machine is, for example, AT
`·4· ·commands?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·So the contents of the message
`·7· ·might be different, but otherwise, the SMS
`·8· ·protocol is the same?
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·The principle's the same.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·You have a number of patents?
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·I have two patents.
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do those discuss
`13· ·machine-to-machine communications?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·They discuss CDMA
`15· ·communications.
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·CDMA communications?
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Correct.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Is there anything specific in
`19· ·those two machine-to-machine communications?
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·Not specific, no.
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·Have you published any papers
`22· ·that relate to machine-to-machine
`23· ·communications?
`24· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·Have your patents been licensed?
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, they were.
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·To whom?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·I think the company was Micro
`·4· ·Electronics.· It was a chip manufacturer.
`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall whether you got
`·6· ·royalties for licensing your patents?
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·It was an outright sale.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· You sold the patents?
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall the amount?
`11· · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Can I interject
`12· · · · ·for a moment?· Dr. Nettleton, I would
`13· · · · ·caution you if these agreements or
`14· · · · ·licenses are confidential in any way
`15· · · · ·and you have obligations to some other
`16· · · · ·party in that regard, to keep that in
`17· · · · ·mind.
`18· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall the amount you
`20· ·sold them for?
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't; but in any case, I
`22· ·think it's subject to confidentiality.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Before your involvement in this
`24· ·lawsuit, had you ever built or designed a
`25· ·machine-to-machine device?· If there's any
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`·1· ·conceptual design, it went off to Pfizer and
`·2· ·I never saw it again.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·So you didn't actually program
`·4· ·the device?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·Before your involvement in this
`·7· ·case, had you ever used AT commands?
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·In what capacity?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·As part of working with modems.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·When did you use those in
`12· ·connection with modems?
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Oh, gosh, many times over the
`14· ·years.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·What's the earliest you remember
`16· ·using AT commands?
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Late '70s, early '80s.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are some of those the same
`19· ·AT commands that we've been referring to in
`20· ·this case?
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·The AT commands we're talking
`22· ·about in this case are fairly substantial
`23· ·superset of the traditional Hayes commands.
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·But the ATE command, for
`25· ·example, is that one that you used in the
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`·1· ·unclarity by what I meant by
`·2· ·"machine-to-machine device," let me know.
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, there was one project that
`·4· ·I worked on that was, believe it or not, a
`·5· ·dog collar which monitored the location of
`·6· ·the dog and informed the owner if it drifted
`·7· ·away.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did it have a GPS?
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·It did.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·When was this project?
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Oh, gosh.· Five, six years ago.
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall what communication
`13· ·module you used in the dog collar?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you program that yourself?
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·No.· No, I designed it as an
`17· ·exercise in estimating the cost of entering
`18· ·the market.
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·I see.
`20· · · · · · · · Was that for a client?
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·It was for Pfizer Animal Health.
`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Who programmed the
`23· ·machine-to-machine communications module in
`24· ·that instance?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, once I had completed the
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`·1· ·'70s?
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·Sure.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·What did you use AT commands for
`·4· ·in connection with modems?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Usually in setting up,
`·6· ·configuring modems for data links.
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall if any has
`·8· ·commands that you used for that back then,
`·9· ·any AT commands from then?· No?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·What did you say to configure or
`12· ·set up the modems?
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah.· And to use them,
`14· ·obviously.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·Right.
`16· · · · · · · · Did you use them to program the
`17· ·modems?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·I did not program the modems,
`19· ·no, in the sense of writing the software for
`20· ·them.
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you use AT commands to
`22· ·program the modems?
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah.· In the sense that
`24· ·programming means providing commands, yes.
`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·Before your work on this case,
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`·1· ·had you been hired to work on any M2M
`·2· ·Communications projects?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Not to the best of my memory.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you consider yourself an
`·5· ·expert on machine-to-machine communications?
`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·I consider myself an expert on
`·7· ·communications, wireless communications.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you consider yourself an
`·9· ·expert on cellular protocols?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·So that's an example of
`12· ·something within communications where you
`13· ·consider yourself an expert?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, that's correct.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·And is machine-to-machine
`16· ·modules a subset of communications that you
`17· ·consider yourself an expert on?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, it's kind of a niche
`19· ·subset.
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·In what regard is it a niche
`21· ·subset?
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, compared to the size of
`23· ·the market for say telephones, it's tiny.
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Right.· What I'm trying to
`25· ·understand, what in your background makes you
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`·1· ·A.· · ·I believe they did.
`·2· ·Q.· · ·Could you explain to me --
`·3· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Excuse me,
`·4· ·Mr. Yonay.· This witness is not here
`·5· ·today to testify to invalidity topics.
`·6· ·He's not our invalidity expert.· And
`·7· ·you're asking questions now which are
`·8· ·designed to pursue information about
`·9· ·specific invalidity issues that you've
`10· ·raised in this case, and he's not going
`11· ·to be speaking to that.
`12· · · · · If you want to ask about his
`13· ·background and experience, that's one
`14· ·thing.· If you want to ask about the
`15· ·subject matter of prior art that
`16· ·relates to your invalidity arguments,
`17· ·we're not going to go there.
`18· · · · · MR. YONAY:· Are you instructing
`19· ·the witness not to answer?
`20· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· I'm telling you
`21· ·that if ask you questions that are
`22· ·clearly oriented toward invalidity
`23· ·topics on which he's not opining, then
`24· ·I will instruct him.
`25· · · · · MR. YONAY:· So we're not there
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`Page 18
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`·1· ·an expert on machine-to-machine
`·2· ·communications in particular?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Only that the principles are the
`·4· ·same for communication.
`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·So to the extent that your
`·6· ·knowledge about communications in general
`·7· ·bears on machine-to-machine communications,
`·8· ·you're an expert?
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·That's correct.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·In your work in communications,
`11· ·have you worked with GSM communications
`12· ·protocols?
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`14· · · · ·Q.· · ·Would you say extensively?
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·You have familiarity with the
`17· ·GSM standards?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes, I do.
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·From when would you say your
`20· ·familiarity begins?
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·In the mid-'90s on through the
`22· ·various evolutionary versions; 2T, 3T, 4T.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are you aware of whether GSM
`24· ·standards in that period from the mid-'90s
`25· ·had a call-barring feature?
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`Page 20
`·1· ·yet.· If we get there, instruct him not
`·2· ·answer and then we'll deal with it
`·3· ·then.
`·4· · · · · Can you read back the question,
`·5· ·please.
`·6· · · · · (Record read.)
`·7· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Yes, I will
`·8· ·instruct him not to answer any further
`·9· ·because now you're getting into talking
`10· ·about the subject matter of the prior
`11· ·art particularly related to specific
`12· ·invalidity arguments --
`13· · · · · MR. YONAY:· What's the basis --
`14· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· -- you're raising
`15· ·on this case.
`16· · · · · MR. YONAY:· What's the basis for
`17· ·the instruction not to answer?
`18· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· The basis is that
`19· ·he's our infringement expert.· He's not
`20· ·opined on the topics of invalidity.· We
`21· ·have a separate invalidity expert in
`22· ·this case who you are going to get a
`23· ·chance to depose, and he's not here
`24· ·today to answer your invalidity
`25· ·questions.
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`Page 21
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`·1· · · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· I will read for the
`·2· · · · · ·record from Federal Rule of Civil
`·3· · · · · ·Procedure 30(C)(ii).
`·4· · · · · · · · · "A person may instruct a
`·5· · · · · ·deponent not to answer only when
`·6· · · · · ·necessary to preserve a privilege, to
`·7· · · · · ·enforce a limitation ordered by the
`·8· · · · · ·court or to present a motion under Rule
`·9· · · · · ·30(D)(iii)."
`10· · · · · · · · · Are you instructing him not to
`11· · · · · ·answer because of a privilege?
`12· · · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· I'm not here to
`13· · · · · ·be deposed, Mr. Yonay.· I told you what
`14· · · · · ·my position is.· If you want to
`15· · · · · ·proceed, I'll proceed as I said I
`16· · · · · ·would.
`17· · · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· I'm asking you to
`18· · · · · ·clarify your objection.
`19· · · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· I'm not here to
`20· · · · · ·be deposed.
`21· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`22· · · · · ·Q.· · ·So please answer the question.
`23· · ·The question was, can you explain to me the
`24· · ·call-barring feature?
`25· · · · · ·A.· · ·It was possible I believe in
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`Page 23
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`·1· ·talking about were secure.· So to that
`·2· ·extent, I understood how the -- excuse me --
`·3· ·the security systems worked.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·How were the communications
`·5· ·secure in that particular system?
`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, the main -- there were
`·7· ·several levels of security.· There was
`·8· ·spreading the spectrum.· There was frequency
`·9· ·hopping.· Those were for anti-jam types of
`10· ·systems.· And then, of course, there was
`11· ·regular encryption.
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you work with the encryption
`13· ·on that project?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·No.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·What did you do for the Navy?
`16· · · · ·A.· · ·Very similar things.· Plus I
`17· ·worked on other things.· I did some satellite
`18· ·work for them which was to do with spectrum
`19· ·planning and interference analysis.· Plus I
`20· ·also worked on modems for air-to-air
`21· ·communications.· Bearing in mind, of course,
`22· ·the Navy has an Air Force of its own.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·How many -- in how many lawsuits
`24· ·have you been retained as an expert?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·Over the years, probably in
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`Page 22
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`·1· ·those days to -- for the user to -- and still
`·2· ·is, by the way -- for the user to specify
`·3· ·numbers that should not be answered.· I'm not
`·4· ·sure what mechanism was there.· It could be
`·5· ·that the caller got some kind of a message.
`·6· ·I just don't know.
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· Thank you.
`·8· · · · · · · · You consider yourself an expert
`·9· ·on communications security?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·To the extent that it pertains
`11· ·to wireless communications.
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·I understand you did some work
`13· ·for NASA or the Navy; is that right?
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·Both.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·Separately or is that the
`16· ·same --
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Separately.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·What did you do for NASA?
`19· · · · ·A.· · ·I did interference analysis for
`20· ·satellite communications.
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·Signal interference?
`22· · · · ·A.· · ·Signal interference.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did that have to do with
`24· ·security?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·The communications that we were
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`Page 24
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`·1· ·excess of 50.
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·Over 5-0?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·Uh-huh.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·How many of those have you
`·5· ·submitted expert reports?
`·6· · · · ·A.· · ·I think probably more than half
`·7· ·of them.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·And you said earlier you've been
`·9· ·deposed seven or eight times?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·At least, yeah.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·So many of those reports you
`12· ·didn't get deposed on, did you?
`13· · · · ·A.· · ·In the earlier days, it seems
`14· ·like most of these things got settled.· Of
`15· ·late, they tend to go to trial or at least to
`16· ·deposition.
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·Have you testified at trial?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`19· · · · ·Q.· · ·How many times?
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·I think maybe five or six.· Plus
`21· ·I include in trial the arbitration process as
`22· ·well.
`23· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall the Innovatia
`24· ·case?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·I do.
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`Page 25
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·What did you do in that case?
`·2· · · · ·A.· · ·I wrote expert reports and
`·3· ·testified in court.
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·On behalf of which litigant?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·Innovatia.
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall your analysis of
`·7· ·the Qualcomm patent portfolio in that case?
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.· It was hardly an analysis,
`·9· ·but yes.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·What would you call it if not an
`11· ·analysis?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·The Qualcomm portfolio, of
`13· ·course, is enormous.· And the patents in
`14· ·question were, first of all, a small subset
`15· ·of that; and, secondly, restricted to a very
`16· ·small application area.
`17· · · · ·Q.· · ·What was your task in connection
`18· ·with those patents?
`19· · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Dr. Nettleton,
`20· · · · ·again, I caution you if you have
`21· · · · ·confidentiality obligations in these
`22· · · · ·other cases that prevent you from
`23· · · · ·revealing these details, you need to be
`24· · · · ·mindful of that.· If you don't, you
`25· · · · ·don't.
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`Page 27
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`·1· · · · ·Q.· · ·What is the relationship between
`·2· ·Qualcomm's portfolio being overwhelming, huge
`·3· ·and all-encompassing and the value of that
`·4· ·portfolio?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm sure that the Qualcomm
`·6· ·portfolio is one of the most valuable.
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are you familiar with the -- any
`·8· ·other patents owned by the plaintiff in this
`·9· ·case other than the one we're talking about
`10· ·today, the '010 patent?
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·Oh, in the Telit case?
`12· · · · ·Q.· · ·Yes.· I'm back to the M2M
`13· ·Solutions case.
`14· · · · ·A.· · ·I've got you.
`15· · · · · · · · I am aware of at least one other
`16· ·patent which I think was within an earlier
`17· ·phase of the case.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·Would you call M2M Solutions'
`19· ·patent portfolio enormous?
`20· · · · ·A.· · ·I have no idea how big it is.
`21· · · · ·Q.· · ·Based on what you know, would
`22· ·you call it enormous?
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm sure it's a lot more modest
`24· ·than Qualcomm's.
`25· · · · ·Q.· · ·Would you call it overwhelming?
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`Page 26
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`·1· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`·2· · · · ·Q.· · ·You testified in open court,
`·3· ·didn't you?
`·4· · · · ·A.· · ·Yeah, where there's a public
`·5· ·record.· And to the extent that there's a
`·6· ·public record --
`·7· · · · ·Q.· · ·I'm asking you publicly-
`·8· ·available information.
`·9· · · · ·A.· · ·Right, right.
`10· · · · ·Q.· · ·So what was the nature of your
`11· ·task in connection with the Qualcomm patents?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·You know, it's a while ago.· I'm
`13· ·not sure I remember without referring to the
`14· ·transcript.
`15· · · · ·Q.· · ·But you mentioned that the
`16· ·Qualcomm portfolio was enormous?
`17· · · · ·A.· · ·Enormous.
`18· · · · ·Q.· · ·I believe you testified in that
`19· ·case that it was overwhelming and huge and
`20· ·all-encompassing.· Do you recall that?
`21· · · · ·A.· · ·That sounds pretty likely.
`22· · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you refer to those qualities
`23· ·as having some bearing on the quality of
`24· ·Qualcomm's portfolio?
`25· · · · ·A.· · ·I may have.
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`Page 28
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·I haven't analyzed it enough to
`·2· ·make a comment on that.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·Numerically, how many patents
`·4· ·are you aware of?
`·5· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm not aware of the number.
`·6· · · · ·Q.· · ·How many are you aware of?
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·I'm only aware of the two that I
`·8· ·was offered for analysis.
`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·And would you say two patents is
`10· ·an overwhelming and huge and all-encompassing
`11· ·portfolio?
`12· · · · ·A.· · ·Of course, not.
`13· · · · ·Q.· · ·Based on what you've seen of
`14· ·these two patents and what you know of
`15· ·Qualcomm's portfolio, do you have an opinion
`16· ·as to whether the Qualcomm portfolio or the
`17· ·M2M Solutions portfolio is more valuable?
`18· · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Excuse me,
`19· · · · ·Mr. Yonay, now we appear to be --
`20· · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· I'm asking for his
`21· · · · ·opinion.
`22· · · · · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Excuse me.· I was
`23· · · · ·speaking, sir.
`24· · · · · · · · We now seem to be asking our
`25· · · · ·infringement witness what clearly are
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`Page 29
`·1· ·damages-related questions in a case in
`·2· ·which he's not a damages expert and has
`·3· ·asked no damages, has offered no
`·4· ·damages-related opinions.
`·5· · · · · Your questions have nothing to
`·6· ·do with his infringement report.· And
`·7· ·they have nothing to do with why he's
`·8· ·here today.
`·9· · · · · MR. YONAY:· Let me just read
`10· ·into the record from Federal Civil
`11· ·Procedure 30(C)(ii).
`12· · · · · "An objection must be stated
`13· ·concisely and in nonargumentative and
`14· ·nonsuggestive manner."
`15· · · · · I will ask you to keep your
`16· ·objections in that -- consistent with
`17· ·the rules.· So nonargumentative,
`18· ·nonsuggestive.· You've stated your
`19· ·objection on the record.
`20· · · · · Could you please read back the
`21· ·question.
`22· · · · · (Record read.)
`23· · · · · MR. HENSCHKE:· Objection.
`24· · · · · Instruct the witness not to
`25· ·answer.
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`Page 31
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`·1· ·the preparation of any infringement
`·2· ·contentions?
`·3· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't remember when that work
`·4· ·began.
`·5· · · · ·Q.· · ·My question is do you recall
`·6· ·being involved in preparation of infringement
`·7· ·contentions?
`·8· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`·9· · · · ·Q.· · ·You were involved?
`10· · · · ·A.· · ·Well, I wrote a report on it.
`11· · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· My question is whether
`12· ·you were involved in the preparation of -- do
`13· ·you know what I mean by "infringement
`14· ·contentions"?
`15· · · · ·A.· · ·Yes.
`16· · · · ·Q.· · ·What am I referring to by
`17· ·"infringement contentions"?
`18· · · · ·A.· · ·These are the early preparations
`19· ·where infringement charts are produced.
`20· · · · ·Q.· · ·And were you involved in M2M
`21· ·Solutions' preparation of infringement
`22· ·contentions?
`23· · · · ·A.· · ·I believe I was.
`24· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall whether you were
`25· ·involved in the case around January 2013?
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`Page 30
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`·1· · · · · · · · · It's a damages-related question
`·2· · · · · ·which has nothing to do with his expert
`·3· · · · · ·opinions in this case.· And if you want
`·4· · · · · ·to take this to Judge Andrews, I'm
`·5· · · · · ·happy to do that, including right now.
`·6· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`·7· · · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you understand my question is
`·8· · ·whether you have an opinion, not the opinion
`·9· · ·itself?· My question is whether you have an
`10· · ·opinion.
`11· · · · · ·A.· · ·I don't have an opinion.
`12· · · · · ·Q.· · ·Okay.· When did you first get
`13· · ·involved in this case?
`14· · · · · ·A.· · ·I think at least two years ago.
`15· · · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall what the stage of
`16· · ·the case it was at?
`17· · · · · ·A.· · ·I think it was pretty early
`18· · ·stage.· I'm not sure.
`19· · · · · ·Q.· · ·Do you recall whether
`20· · ·infringement contentions had been submitted
`21· · ·at that time?
`22· · · · · ·A.· · ·No, I don't.
`23· · · · · ·Q.· · ·You don't recall?
`24· · · · · ·A.· · ·I don't.
`25· · · · · ·Q.· · ·Did you assist at any stage in
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`·1· · · · ·A.· · ·Two years ago, that's distinctly
`·2· ·possible.
`·3· · · · ·Q.· · ·Were you involved in the
`·4· ·infringement contention that read the claims
`·5· ·on, among other things, the fixed dial-in
`·6· ·number phone book?
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·I don't recall that level of
`·8· ·detail from this perspective a couple of
`·9· ·years later.
`10· · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· Let's mark as
`11· · · · ·Exhibit 1 the opening expert report of
`12· · · · ·Dr. Ray W. Nettleton regarding Telit's
`13· · · · ·infringement of the '010 patent.
`14· · · · · · · · (Nettleton Exhibit 1, No Bates
`15· · · · ·numbers, Opening Expert Report of Dr.
`16· · · · ·Ray W. Nettleton regarding Telit's
`17· · · · ·infringement of the '010 patent,· for
`18· · · · ·identification.)
`19· · · · · · · · MR. YONAY:· Let's also mark as
`20· · · · ·Exhibit 2 the reply expert report of
`21· · · · ·Dr. Ray W. Nettleton regarding Telit's
`22· · · · ·infringement of the '010 patent.
`23· · · · · · · · (Nettleton Exhibit 2, No Bates
`24· · · · ·numbers, Reply Expert Report of Dr. Ray
`25· · · · ·W. Nettleton regarding Telit's
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`·1· · · · ·infringement of the '010 patent, marked
`·2· · · · ·for identification.)
`·3· ·BY MR. YONAY:
`·4· · · · ·Q.· · ·Are these exhibits, 1 and 2, the
`·5· ·reports you've submitted in this case?
`·6· · · · · · · · (Witness peruses the exhibits.)
`·7· · · · ·A.· · ·They appear to be.
`·8· · · · ·Q.· · ·Do these contain your complete
`·9· ·opinions on the topic of the infringement
`10· ·allegedly by Telit of the '010 patent?
`11· · · · ·A.· · ·To the best of my knowled