·1· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`·2
`
`·3· · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·4
`
`·5· ·CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,· · · · )
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) Case No.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · Petitioner,· · ) IPR2016-01020
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· · ·-and-
`
`·9· · · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · ·) Case No.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR2016-01021
`
`11· ·TQ DELTA, LLC,· · · · · · · )
`
`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) U.S. Patent No.
`
`13· · · · · · · Patent Owner.· · ) 9,014,243
`
`14
`
`15· · · · · · · The deposition of ROBERT T. SHORT,
`
`16· ·Ph.D., called as a witness for examination, taken
`
`17· ·before VICTORIA C. CHRISTIANSEN, a Certified
`
`18· ·Shorthand Reporter of the State of Illinois, CSR
`
`19· ·No. 84-3192, at Suite 3500, 500 West Madison
`
`20· ·Street, Chicago, Illinois, on the 27th day of
`
`21· ·April, A.D. 2017, at 9:17 a.m.
`
`22
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`23
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`24
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`·2
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`·3· · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·4
`
`·5· ·CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.,· · · · )
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) Case No.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · Petitioner,· · ) IPR2016-01020
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· · ·-and-
`
`·9· · · · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · ·) Case No.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) IPR2016-01021
`
`11· ·TQ DELTA, LLC,· · · · · · · )
`
`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·) U.S. Patent No.
`
`13· · · · · · · Patent Owner.· · ) 9,014,243
`
`14
`
`15· · · · · · · The deposition of ROBERT T. SHORT,
`
`16· ·Ph.D., called as a witness for examination, taken
`
`17· ·before VICTORIA C. CHRISTIANSEN, a Certified
`
`18· ·Shorthand Reporter of the State of Illinois, CSR
`
`19· ·No. 84-3192, at Suite 3500, 500 West Madison
`
`20· ·Street, Chicago, Illinois, on the 27th day of
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`21· ·April, A.D. 2017, at 9:17 a.m.
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`·1· ·PRESENT:
`
`·2
`· · · · · ·HAYNES AND BOONE, LLP,
`·3· · · · ·(2323 Victory Avenue, Suite 700,
`· · · · · ·Dallas, Texas 75219,
`·4· · · · ·214-651-5533), by:
`· · · · · ·MR. JOHN RUSSELL EMERSON,
`·5· · · · ·russ.emerson@haynesboone.com,
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · -and-
`
`·7· · · · ·HAYNES AND BOONE, LLP,
`· · · · · ·(2505 North Plano Road, Suite 4000,
`·8· · · · ·Richardson, Texas 75082-4101,
`· · · · · ·972-739-8649), by:
`·9· · · · ·MR. THEODORE M. FOSTER,
`· · · · · ·theo.foster@haynesboone.com,
`10
`· · · · · · · · · · -and-
`11
`· · · · · ·HAYNES AND BOONE, LLP,
`12· · · · ·(30 Rockefeller Plaza, 26th Floor,
`· · · · · ·New York, New York 10112,
`13· · · · ·212-659-7300), by:
`· · · · · ·MS. DINA BLIKSHTEYN,
`14· · · · ·dina.blikshteyn@haynesboone.com,
`
`15· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of the Petitioner;
`
`16
`
`17· · · · ·DUANE MORRIS LLP,
`· · · · · ·(1075 Peachtree Street NE, Suite 2000,
`18· · · · ·Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3929,
`· · · · · ·404-253-6917), by:
`19· · · · ·MR. COREY J. MANLEY,
`· · · · · ·cjmanley@duanemorris.com,
`20
`· · · · · · · · appeared on behalf of Arris, Comcast,
`21· · · · · · · Cox, Verizon and Time Warner;
`
`22
`
`23
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`24
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`·1· ·PRESENT (Continued):
`
`·2
`· · · · · ·COOLEY LLP,
`·3· · · · ·(Reston Town Center,
`· · · · · ·11951 Freedom Drive, 14th Floor,
`·4· · · · ·Reston, Virginia 20190-5656,
`· · · · · ·703-456-8130), by:
`·5· · · · ·MR. STEPHEN McBRIDE,
`· · · · · ·smcbride@cooley.com,
`·6
`· · · · · · · · appeared via telephonic communications
`·7· · · · · · · on behalf of Dish Network;
`
`·8
`· · · · · ·McANDREWS, HELD & MALLOY, LTD.,
`·9· · · · ·(500 West Madison Street, 34th Floor,
`· · · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60661,
`10· · · · ·312-775-8000), by:
`· · · · · ·MR. PETER J. McANDREWS,
`11· · · · ·pmcandrews@mcandrews-ip.com, and
`· · · · · ·MR. ANDREW B. KARP,
`12· · · · ·akarp@mcandrews-ip.com,
`
`13· · · · · · · appeared on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17· ·ALSO PRESENT:
`
`18· · · · ·MR. JOSE TELLADO
`· · · · · · ·(via telephonic communications).
`19
`
`20
`
`21
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`22
`
`23
`· · ·REPORTED BY:· VICTORIA C. CHRISTIANSEN, RPR, CRR,
`24· · · · · · · · ·Illinois CSR No. 84-3192.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly
`
`·2· · · · · · · · · sworn.)
`
`·3· · · · MR. EMERSON:· Russ Emerson, Haynes and Boone,
`
`·4· ·for Cisco.
`
`·5· · · · MR. FOSTER:· Theo Foster from Haynes and Boone
`
`·6· ·for Cisco.
`
`·7· · · · MS. BLIKSHTEYN:· Dina Blikshteyn, Haynes and
`
`·8· ·Boone, for Cisco.
`
`·9· · · · MR. MANLEY:· Corey Manley, Duane Morris, for
`
`10· ·Arris, Comcast, Cox, Time Warner Cable and Verizon.
`
`11· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Peter McAndrews --
`
`12· · · · MR. McBRIDE:· Stephen McBride from Cooley on
`
`13· ·behalf of Dish Network.
`
`14· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Anyone else on the phone for
`
`15· ·the defendants or petitioner?
`
`16· · · · MR. FOSTER:· Petitioner expects to have Jose
`
`17· ·Tellado, but apparently he's not on the phone just
`
`18· ·yet.
`
`19· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Okay, all right.· So --
`
`20· · · · MR. TELLADO:· Jose Tellado of Cisco is here.
`
`21· · · · MR. FOSTER:· Okay.
`
`22· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· That's Jose Tellado.
`
`23· · · · · · · Peter McAndrews from McAndrews, Held &
`
`24· ·Malloy for TQ Delta.
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`·1· · · · MR. KARP:· Andrew Karp, McAndrews, Held &
`
`·2· ·Malloy, for TQ Delta.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · ·ROBERT T. SHORT, Ph.D.,
`
`·4· ·called as a witness herein, having been first duly
`
`·5· ·sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`
`·7· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · All right.· Good morning, Dr. Short.
`
`·9· ·How are you?
`
`10· · · · A.· · Good.· Thank you.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · Are you prepared to testify today?
`
`12· · · · A.· · I am.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · Any reason why you can't testify
`
`14· ·truthfully and accurately today?
`
`15· · · · A.· · No.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Okay.· How many times have you been
`
`17· ·deposed?
`
`18· · · · A.· · Four, I believe.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And when was the last time you
`
`20· ·were deposed?
`
`21· · · · A.· · In February.
`
`22· · · · Q.· · In what connection were you deposed?
`
`23· · · · A.· · It was an infringement suit, and I was
`
`24· ·with the plaintiff.
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Was that involved -- was that in any way
`
`·2· ·related to the IPRs that we're talking about today?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · No.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Totally different?
`
`·5· · · · A.· · Totally unconnected.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Well, as you know, the court
`
`·7· ·reporter here is taking down everything we say, so
`
`·8· ·we need to answer audibly and not talk over each
`
`·9· ·other, okay?
`
`10· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · All right.· Would you please -- if you
`
`12· ·don't understand one of my questions, would you
`
`13· ·please ask me to rephrase it?
`
`14· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · What do you do for a living?
`
`16· · · · A.· · I am a practicing electrical engineer.
`
`17· ·Most of my work involves wireless system design.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · What kind of wireless system design?
`
`19· · · · A.· · A variety.· I have in recent years done
`
`20· ·satellite communication systems, I've done some
`
`21· ·military tactical communication systems.· The last
`
`22· ·few years, that's the bulk of it.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · Who is your employer?
`
`24· · · · A.· · ViaSat.
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`·1· · · · Q.· · ViaSat?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · Yes.· V-i-a-S-a-t.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · How long have you worked with ViaSat?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Four years.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · Four years.· What did you do before
`
`·6· ·that?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · I was an independent consultant.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · And what kind of work did you do as an
`
`·9· ·independent consultant?
`
`10· · · · A.· · Similar work, mostly the wireless system
`
`11· ·design for specialty radios, but that tended to be
`
`12· ·in the consumer electronics networking space.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · What is PAR?
`
`14· · · · A.· · "PAR" stands for peak-to-average ratio.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · So if I say "PAR," you'll know what I'm
`
`16· ·talking about, right?
`
`17· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Just a shorthand we'll use throughout
`
`19· ·the day, okay?
`
`20· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · All right.· In your -- you have a
`
`22· ·doctorate, correct?
`
`23· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · And your doctorate is in what?
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`·1· · · · A.· · Electrical engineering.
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`·2· · · · Q.· · What was the subject of your thesis?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · It was a study in optimal receivers in
`
`·4· ·CDMA communication systems.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · What experience do you have on the issue
`
`·6· ·of PAR reduction in multicarrier systems?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · I'm -- I'm not sure how to answer that
`
`·8· ·question.· It's a very broad question.
`
`·9· · · · · · · I have been involved with multicarrier
`
`10· ·and single-carrier systems for many years, and all
`
`11· ·of those systems have some level of
`
`12· ·peak-to-average.· I would -- peak-to-average
`
`13· ·ratios.
`
`14· · · · · · · As far as mitigation, there's a variety
`
`15· ·of techniques that could be used, and I've used
`
`16· ·some of them.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · For example, which ones?
`
`18· · · · A.· · Well, just -- just waveform design is
`
`19· ·one way to attack the problem.· In recent years,
`
`20· ·using diversity where you'd put different symbols
`
`21· ·across the band, maybe change the -- change the
`
`22· ·phases of the -- of the symbols that are in -- that
`
`23· ·are scattered through the band.
`
`24· · · · · · · I've done some pre-equalization,
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`·1· ·which -- which helps linearize the transmitter
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`·2· ·system.· So those are things I can think of right
`
`·3· ·off.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · When you talk about changing the phase
`
`·5· ·of the symbols that are scattered through the band,
`
`·6· ·what do you mean?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Well, in a multicarrier system, the
`
`·8· ·primary contributor to peak-to-average occurs when
`
`·9· ·the symbols all have the same -- all have the same
`
`10· ·value, and if you just change the value, which
`
`11· ·usually you do by changing -- just by rotating the
`
`12· ·symbols, then you can reduce the peak-to-average
`
`13· ·ratio.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Is that something that you're familiar
`
`15· ·with?
`
`16· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · And is that something that you've done
`
`18· ·in your -- in your work as a consultant?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`20· · · · Q.· · About how many times?
`
`21· · · · A.· · I'm not sure I know -- I'm not sure I
`
`22· ·remember.· I can think of three systems where we --
`
`23· ·where we did that.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And what kind of systems were
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`·1· ·those?
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`·2· · · · A.· · One -- actually two, but they were based
`
`·3· ·on the same standard, were ultra-wideband systems,
`
`·4· ·so it was straight OFDM, and the other one was --
`
`·5· ·it was an OFDM system, as well, but it was a custom
`
`·6· ·system.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And when -- and when did you work
`
`·8· ·on those projects?
`
`·9· · · · A.· · The ultra-wideband project was probably
`
`10· ·beginning 2004 and ending 20- -- 2007.· I don't --
`
`11· ·I don't remember the exact dates, but it's that
`
`12· ·time frame.· And the custom system would have been
`
`13· ·2007.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Okay.
`
`15· · · · A.· · -ish.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Do you remember who those projects were
`
`17· ·for?
`
`18· · · · A.· · I did ultra-wideband for two companies.
`
`19· ·One was called Alereon.· It's an Austin-based
`
`20· ·company.· I did -- I'm not remembering the name of
`
`21· ·the second one.· It was one of the big camera
`
`22· ·companies.· It was a Japanese camera company, and I
`
`23· ·can't remember which one right now.· And the third
`
`24· ·one was for a very small company by the name of
`
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`·1· ·Air XS.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · What about any work for ViaSat?· Have
`
`·3· ·you ever addressed the problem of high
`
`·4· ·peak-to-average ratio or high PAR?
`
`·5· · · · A.· · Have I addressed high PAR?· I've
`
`·6· ·addressed the peak-to-average problem.· I'm not
`
`·7· ·sure it was -- it was not a multicarrier system,
`
`·8· ·but peak-to-average -- it was a single-carrier
`
`·9· ·system, but peak-to-average was the -- the problem,
`
`10· ·and I did have to do some design along those lines.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · And when you say "peak-to-average," do
`
`12· ·you mean PAR?
`
`13· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And you said that you've
`
`15· ·addressed the peak-to-average problem.· I'm -- I'm
`
`16· ·sorry.· You said, "Have I addressed high PAR?· I've
`
`17· ·addressed the peak-to-average problem."
`
`18· · · · · · · Do you see those as two different
`
`19· ·things?
`
`20· · · · A.· · Well, high -- high PAR is -- is a --
`
`21· ·kind of a qualitative thing.· I'm not sure what you
`
`22· ·mean by "high PAR."· I mean, I'm just not sure what
`
`23· ·you mean by that.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · Have you addressed the -- so let me put
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`·1· ·it this way:· Have you addressed the issue of
`
`·2· ·reducing PAR in your work for ViaSat?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · No.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And in your consulting work that
`
`·5· ·you described for me a few moments ago, were you
`
`·6· ·addressing the issue of reducing PAR?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · I don't think that was a specific task
`
`·8· ·that -- that we were assigned, if you will, to
`
`·9· ·reduce PAR.· It was part of the standards
`
`10· ·development process.
`
`11· · · · · · · So it was certainly discussed, but the
`
`12· ·techniques were definitely there partly to reduce
`
`13· ·PAR.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So it wasn't specifically your
`
`15· ·goal to reduce PAR in those consulting projects?
`
`16· · · · A.· · Let me re- -- excuse me.· Let me
`
`17· ·rephrase that.· It wasn't the only goal.· It was --
`
`18· ·it was a goal, but it wasn't the only goal.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · And were these multicarrier systems you
`
`20· ·were dealing with?
`
`21· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`22· · · · Q.· · Have you ever published any articles or
`
`23· ·any type of papers or things like that?
`
`24· · · · A.· · Let's de- -- the answer is yes, but
`
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`·1· ·nothing -- when you say "published," do you mean
`
`·2· ·publicly available?
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Yes, sir.
`
`·4· · · · A.· · I have not.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · Other than publicly available, what
`
`·6· ·kinds of papers or articles have you written?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Company bred or published?
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · No, published.
`
`·9· · · · A.· · I've done quite a few internal
`
`10· ·publications that, you know, belong to the company
`
`11· ·that was paying me to do the work and were not
`
`12· ·released to the public.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · Have you ever done any academic research
`
`14· ·in the area of PAR reduction in multicarrier
`
`15· ·systems?
`
`16· · · · A.· · No.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · So to sum up, your experience addressing
`
`18· ·PAR reduction in multicarrier systems would be
`
`19· ·limited to those consulting projects that you
`
`20· ·described a few moments ago?
`
`21· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`22· · · · MR. EMERSON:· Okay.· So actually one of the
`
`23· ·people on the phone is having trouble hearing, so
`
`24· ·where is the microphone for the phone?
`
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`·1· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· They're scattered throughout.
`
`·2· · · · MR. EMERSON:· Okay.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, discussion was had off
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · ·the record.)
`
`·5· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`·6· · · · Q.· · So, Dr. Short, I'm going to hand you
`
`·7· ·what has been previously marked as Exhibit 2003.
`
`·8· ·This is in the 1021 IPR, okay?
`
`·9· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`10· · · · MR. EMERSON:· Would you like a copy?
`
`11· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· That would be great.· Thanks.
`
`12· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`13· · · · Q.· · I'm going to go ahead and hand you
`
`14· ·Shively and Stopler, okay?
`
`15· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · And while we're doing this, what did you
`
`17· ·do to prepare for your deposition?
`
`18· · · · A.· · I reviewed the materials.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · Okay.· When you say "the materials,"
`
`20· ·what do you mean?
`
`21· · · · A.· · The declarations I wrote and at least
`
`22· ·most of the references.· I don't know if I got all
`
`23· ·of them, but at least most of the references that
`
`24· ·we had used -- that I had used to prepare this
`
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`·1· ·declaration.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · Okay.
`
`·3· · · · A.· · These declarations.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · All right.· So did you meet with your
`
`·5· ·counsel to get ready for today?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And when was that?· Yesterday?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · Yesterday.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · All right.· And did you meet with Pete
`
`10· ·and Andy?
`
`11· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's take a look at Shively
`
`13· ·first real quick.
`
`14· · · · · · · Would you -- you agree with me, don't
`
`15· ·you, that Shively talks about QAM symbols, right?
`
`16· · · · A.· · Yes, that's my recollection.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· So there's no -- we don't dispute
`
`18· ·that, right?
`
`19· · · · A.· · No, we don't.
`
`20· · · · Q.· · And would you turn to column 11 of
`
`21· ·Shively, please?
`
`22· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · And I'm going to direct your attention
`
`24· ·to the last two sentences in the first full
`
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`·1· ·paragraph.· It begins at about line 20 or 21
`
`·2· ·beginning, "In recombining the symbols."
`
`·3· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · And would you just read to yourself
`
`·6· ·the -- those two sentences there?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Starting with "In recombining"?
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · Yes, sir.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there was a short
`
`10· · · · · · · · · ·interruption.)
`
`11· ·BY THE WITNESS:
`
`12· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`13· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`14· · · · Q.· · All right.· And when Shively refers to a
`
`15· ·symbol here, what we're referring to there is a QAM
`
`16· ·symbol, right?
`
`17· · · · A.· · Can I scan back a little bit --
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Sure.
`
`19· · · · A.· · -- to be sure?
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Sure.
`
`21· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there was a short
`
`22· · · · · · · · · ·interruption.)
`
`23· ·BY THE WITNESS:
`
`24· · · · A.· · Would you ask the question again?
`
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`·1· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · Sure.· When we're talking about symbols
`
`·3· ·here, we're talking about QAM symbols, right?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · Now let's turn to Stopler and let's go
`
`·6· ·to column 10 of Stopler.
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · All right.· And about a third of the way
`
`·9· ·down, there's a paragraph that begins, "Referring
`
`10· ·to the specific example of Figure 4."
`
`11· · · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`12· · · · A.· · I do.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · And take your time to read the
`
`14· ·paragraph, if you'd like.· My question for you is:
`
`15· ·In the context of Stopler, specifically in this
`
`16· ·discussion of Figure 4, what does the word "symbol"
`
`17· ·mean to you?
`
`18· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Objection, compound.
`
`19· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there was a short
`
`20· · · · · · · · · ·interruption.)
`
`21· ·BY THE WITNESS:
`
`22· · · · A.· · I don't -- would you ask the question
`
`23· ·again, please?
`
`24· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Sure.· Shively is talking about QAM
`
`·2· ·symbols here, right?· I'm sorry.· Stopler is
`
`·3· ·talking about QAM symbols here, correct?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · I'm not sure.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · Why aren't you sure?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · Well, I -- I -- it will take me a few
`
`·7· ·minutes to recall all of this -- this section.· It
`
`·8· ·could -- just reading that one paragraph, it could
`
`·9· ·go either way.
`
`10· · · · · · · So I'm not -- it's not clear at all
`
`11· ·without taking a moment -- a little more time.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Do you think that this -- when
`
`13· ·they talk about symbols there that Stopler is
`
`14· ·excluding QAM symbols?
`
`15· · · · A.· · I -- I need to read this more carefully.
`
`16· ·It's been -- it's been a while since I read this
`
`17· ·section carefully.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Is it your opinion that in
`
`19· ·Stopler -- well, let me withdraw that.
`
`20· · · · · · · Do you see where Stopler talks about
`
`21· ·symbols A1, A2, A3, A4, things like that, both in
`
`22· ·this paragraph and in Figure 4?
`
`23· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Objection, form.
`
`24· ·BY THE WITNESS:
`
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`·1· · · · A.· · Ask the question again.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Do you see in this paragraph
`
`·4· ·where they talk about symbols, for example, A1, A2,
`
`·5· ·B1, B2, et cetera?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Can those be QAM symbols?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · Yes, I think that's correct.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's go to your -- the
`
`10· ·declaration now.
`
`11· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · All right.· Would you turn to Paragraph
`
`13· ·44, please?
`
`14· · · · A.· · Okay.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · And there you're talking about Shively
`
`16· ·discussing long loop systems where the cable length
`
`17· ·is at least 18,000 feet, right?
`
`18· · · · A.· · Right.· I'm -- I'm quoting Shively here.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · Understood.· Shively's technique could
`
`20· ·be used with shorter cable lengths, couldn't it?
`
`21· · · · A.· · I don't see any reason to -- he never
`
`22· ·taught that, he never even mentioned that it could
`
`23· ·be, so I don't see any reason to make that
`
`24· ·conclusion.
`
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`·1· · · · Q.· · And my question isn't whether there's a
`
`·2· ·reason to do it or not; my question is this:· Could
`
`·3· ·you use Shively's bit-spreading technique on a
`
`·4· ·system having a cable length less than 18,000 feet?
`
`·5· · · · A.· · I haven't really done that analysis just
`
`·6· ·because he very specifically says that it works at
`
`·7· ·18,000 feet or more loops.· I didn't -- I didn't
`
`·8· ·try to analyze that situation.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · So do you have any opinion at all on
`
`10· ·whether Shively's technique could be used on a
`
`11· ·system with a cable length of less than 18,000
`
`12· ·feet?
`
`13· · · · A.· · Not without making the proper analysis.
`
`14· ·I did not do that analysis.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · So it is not your opinion that it would
`
`16· ·not be possible to use Shively's technique on a
`
`17· ·shorter cable length?
`
`18· · · · A.· · There are a lot of negatives in that.
`
`19· ·Would you repeat that question?
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Sure.· You are not expressing an opinion
`
`21· ·that Shively cannot be used with cable lengths less
`
`22· ·than 18,000 feet?
`
`23· · · · A.· · I will express an opinion that that
`
`24· ·isn't a useful thing to do, but I -- other than
`
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`·1· ·that, yes, what you said is correct.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · Now, one of the issues with cable
`
`·3· ·lengths is attenuation, right?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · That's a problem?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · It's a fact.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Well, it can lead to problems, right?
`
`·8· ·It's an issue?
`
`·9· · · · A.· · It -- it's an issue.
`
`10· · · · Q.· · And it can be a problem, right?
`
`11· · · · A.· · It creates problems in a communication
`
`12· ·environment.
`
`13· · · · Q.· · And that's what we're talking about
`
`14· ·here, a communication environment, okay?
`
`15· · · · A.· · Right.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Do you agree with me on that?
`
`17· · · · A.· · I agree.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · We would refer to attenuation as a form
`
`19· ·of line impairment?
`
`20· · · · A.· · That's one way of looking at it, yes.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Are there other kinds of line
`
`22· ·impairment that you could think of?
`
`23· · · · A.· · Define "line impairment."· I'm not sure
`
`24· ·what you mean by that.
`
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Well, what do you -- what does
`
`·2· ·that mean to you?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · Well, when I say "line impairment," I
`
`·4· ·would say simply the channel rather than other
`
`·5· ·possible impairments, and the channel is simply
`
`·6· ·the -- the twisted pairs.· In this context --
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Right.
`
`·8· · · · A.· · -- it's simply the twisted pairs.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · Okay.· In Paragraph 44 of your
`
`10· ·declaration --
`
`11· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · -- you talk about impaired transmission
`
`13· ·mediums.
`
`14· · · · · · · What do you mean by "impaired"?
`
`15· · · · A.· · In this -- in this context, it's -- let
`
`16· ·me read it real quick.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Please do.
`
`18· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there was a short
`
`19· · · · · · · · · ·interruption.)
`
`20· ·BY THE WITNESS:
`
`21· · · · A.· · Okay.· In this context -- just a second.
`
`22· ·Would you repeat the question, please?
`
`23· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
`24· · · · Q.· · What do you mean by "impaired"?
`
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`·1· · · · A.· · Well, in this case, I'm strictly talking
`
`·2· ·about the -- the fact that the signal in the -- in
`
`·3· ·these long loop systems, once you get at higher
`
`·4· ·frequencies, the signal has been attenuated to the
`
`·5· ·point that it's -- it's below a reasonable noise
`
`·6· ·threshold so that you can adequately receive the
`
`·7· ·signal, the bits.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · So "impairment" means that you have a
`
`·9· ·problem receiving the signal?
`
`10· · · · A.· · Very specifically due to the attenuation
`
`11· ·of the long loop channels.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Are there other kinds of impairment that
`
`13· ·can lead to the same problems?
`
`14· · · · A.· · When you say "to the same problems,"
`
`15· ·please be specific.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Well, you said that attenuation could
`
`17· ·reduce the signal below the -- below the noise
`
`18· ·level so that you can't receive the signal, right?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And so that's an issue of the
`
`21· ·relationship between the signal and the noise,
`
`22· ·right?
`
`23· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`24· · · · Q.· · And so impairment is a situation where
`
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`·1· ·the signal is too low compared to the noise?
`
`·2· · · · A.· · That's a good definition of
`
`·3· ·"impairment."
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · So using that definition, would you
`
`·5· ·agree with me that there are other kinds of
`
`·6· ·impairments that can affect communication systems?
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · So since we're talking about signal and
`
`·9· ·noise, noise can be a problem leading to impairment
`
`10· ·in a communication system, right?
`
`11· · · · A.· · True.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · True.· Near-end crosstalk can be an
`
`13· ·impairment in a communication system, right?
`
`14· · · · A.· · In these types of communication systems,
`
`15· ·yes.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · Because that increases the noise, right?
`
`17· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Increasing the noise decreases the
`
`19· ·signal-to-noise ratio?
`
`20· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · Which is an impairment?
`
`22· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Likewise, far-end crosstalk can
`
`24· ·be an impairment, right?
`
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`·1· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· · Because that increases the noise, right?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · And that decreases the signal-to-noise
`
`·5· ·ratio?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · Now, these same issues can affect
`
`·8· ·communication systems where the cable length is
`
`·9· ·less than hundred -- or 18,000 feet, correct?
`
`10· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · It can apply to any kind of
`
`12· ·communication system?
`
`13· · · · A.· · Near-end and far-end crosstalk don't
`
`14· ·appear in any kind of communication system.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · Fair enough.· You're right.
`
`16· · · · · · · Problems associated with increasing
`
`17· ·noise levels can be a problem with any kind of
`
`18· ·communication system, right?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`20· · · · Q.· · Because signal-to-noise ratios are
`
`21· ·always an issue, right?
`
`22· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`23· · · · Q.· · And you want -- it's best to have a
`
`24· ·higher -- it's better to have a higher
`
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`·1· ·signal-to-noise ratio than a lower signal-to-noise
`
`·2· ·ratio, correct?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Shively's technique can be used to
`
`·5· ·address impairments generally, correct?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · I don't recall Shively teaching that,
`
`·7· ·and so I didn't specifically -- at least in the
`
`·8· ·context of the long loops, so I did not
`
`·9· ·specifically address that.
`
`10· · · · Q.· · I understand.· Is it your opinion that
`
`11· ·Shively's technique cannot be used to address other
`
`12· ·types of impairment beyond attenuation?
`
`13· · · · A.· · That's not my opinion.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · That's not your opinion.· Okay.
`
`15· · · · · · · Let's turn to Paragraph 60 of your
`
`16· ·declaration, please.
`
`17· · · · A.· · 6-0?
`
`18· · · · Q.· · Yes, sir.
`
`19· · · · MR. EMERSON:· Can we take a short break,
`
`20· ·please?
`
`21· · · · MR. McANDREWS:· Sure.
`
`22· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there was a short
`
`23· · · · · · · · · ·interruption.)
`
`24· ·BY MR. EMERSON:
`
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`·1· · · · Q.· · All right.· So here we are at Paragraph
`
`·2· ·60, and really I'm looking at this -- you've got a
`
`·3· ·figure above Paragraph 60, right?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· · Do you see that?
`
`·6· · · · · · · And then in Paragraph 60, you list some
`
`·7· ·percentages here, right?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· · And in the first sentence, you say that
`
`10· ·about 43% of the carriers are unimpaired.
`
`11· · · · · · · First of all, just so we're all clear,
`
`12· ·what do you mean when you say carriers are
`
`13· ·unimpaired?
`
`14· · · · A.· · The signal-to-noise ratio was adequate
`
`15· ·to receive the information on those subcarriers
`
`16· ·with a high probability of success.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And you stated that 43% of the
`
`18· ·carriers are unimpaired.
`
`19· · · · · · · How did you calculate that 43% figure?
`
`20· · · · A.· · I said about 43%, and I did it by just
`
`21· ·measuring along the X axis and estimating what the
`
`22· ·frequency was and then from there estimating how
`
`23· ·many subcarriers were in that.· It would be really
`
`24· ·easy to be off by a subcarrier or two.
`
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`·1· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And then you say that about 6% of
`
`·2· ·the carriers are impaired, right?
`
`·3· · · · A.· · Correct.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · And how did you calculate that?· The
`
`·5· ·same way?
`
`·6· · · · A.· · The same way.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· · And what do you mean by "impaired"?
`
`·8· · · · A.· · In this case, "impaired" means that the
`
`·9· ·signal-to-noise ratio is not adequate to -- is
`
`10· ·lower than is required to receive the symbol with
`
`11· ·reasonable probability of success.
`
`12· · · · Q.· · Okay.· And then when you say 51% of the
`
`13· ·carriers are unusable, you did the calculation the
`
`14· ·same way?
`
`15· · · · A.· · The same way.
`
`16· · · · Q.· · And by "unusable," what do you mean?
`
`17· · · · A.· · "Unusable" means that the
`
`18· ·signal-to-noise ratio was so low that there's
`
`19· ·probably no way to extract a bit with even horrible
`
`20· ·probability.
`
`21· · · · Q.· · And how did you draw the line between
`
`22· ·impaired and unusable?
`
`23· · · · A.· · I generally -- that's something of a --
`
`24· ·of an approximation, but I -- my -- I used my
`
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`·1· ·experience base to say that below this level, you
`
`·2· ·probably can't even get a good phase estimate.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· · Below what level?
`
`·4· · · · A.· · Below the level I show on the blue line
`
`·5· ·there.· That's somewhat of an arbitrary number, but
`
`·6· ·it's not going to change by much.· It could change,
`
`·7· ·you know, by two subcarriers.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · Okay.
`
`·9· · · · A.· · But yeah, there's a point at which you
`
`10· ·can't -- you can't get any information out.
`
`11· · · · Q.· · And you just sort of estimated that in
`
`12· ·this figure?
`
`13· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`14· · · · Q.· · And that was based just on your
`
`15· ·experience?
`
`16· · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`17· · · · Q.· · And what kind of experience in
`
`18· ·particular?
`
`19· · · · A.· · Well, I've built a lot of communication
`
`20· ·systems over the years --
`
`21· · · · Q.· · Okay.
`
`22· · · · A.· · -- and I've observed that at very low
`
`23· ·signal-to-noise ratios, you start to have many,
`
`24· ·many problems with extracting information, and once
`
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`·1· ·you get down towards 0 dB plus or minus a little
`
`·2· ·bit signal-to-noise ratio, it's very difficult to
`
`·3· ·get any information out at all.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Specifically I was talking about
`
`·5· ·how -- you said you used your experience to
`
`·6· ·determine the line between impaired and unusable.
`
`·7· · · · A.· · Right.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· · And so it's based on your general
`
`·9· ·experience designing communication systems?
`
`10· · · · A.· · General experience and general
`
`11· ·knowledge.· I mean, I think if you ask anybody that
`
`12· ·understands communication systems, a person of
`
`13· ·ordinary skill in the art, they'll give you very
`
`14· ·similar answers.
`
`15· · · · Q.· · Okay.· Could you have done the same sort
`
`16· ·of estimations for a system using a 12,000-foot
`
`17· ·loop?
`
`18· · · · A.· · Probably.
`
`19· · · · Q.· · Probably.· I mean, any reason why you
`
`20· ·couldn't have?
`
`21· · · · A.· · I can't think of any reason.
`
`22· · · · MR. EMERSON:· One second.· We're going to grab
`
`23· ·another exhibit.
`
`24· · · · · · · · · (WHEREUPON, there
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