UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC., DISH
`NETWORK, LLC, COMCAST CABLE
`COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, COX
`COMMUNICATIONS, INC., TIME
`WARNER CABLE ENTERPRISES,
`LLC, VERIZON SERVICES CORP.,
`and ARRIS GROUP, INC.,
` Petitioner, IPR 2016-01006, 2016-01007,
`-v- 2016-01008, 2016-01009,
`TQ DELTA, LLC, 2016-01020, 2016-01021
` Patent Owner.
`_________________________________/
` TRANSCIPT OF PROCEEDINGS had of the telephonic
`conference call of the above-entitled matter on the 21st
`day of June 2017, at 3:00 p.m. EST.
`
`BEFORE: HONORABLE KALYAN DESHPANDE
` HONORABLE TREVOR JEFFERSON
` HONORABLE SALLY MEDLEY
`
`Thompson Court Reporters, Inc
`thompsonreporters.com
`
`TQ Delta Exhibit 2010
`Cisco Systems, Inc. v. TQ Delta LLC
`IPR2016-01006
`
`1
`
`

`

`Page 2
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`Page 4
`
`APPEARANCES:
` HAYNES & BOONE,LLP
` 2323 Victory Avenue, Suite 700
` Dallas, Texas 75219
` (214)651-5533, by:
` MR. DAVID L. McCOMBS
` david.mccombs.ipr@haynesboone.com, and
` MR. THEODORE M. FOSTER
` ipr.theo.foster@haynesboone.com, and
` MR. GREGORY P. HUH
` gregory.huh.ipr@haynesboone.com
` Appearing on Behalf of Petitioner Cisco
` Systems, Inc.
`
` COOLEY, LLP
` 1299 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 700
` Washington, DC 20004
` (703)456-8130, by:
` MR. STEPHEN McBRIDE
` smcbride@cooley.com
` Appearing on Behalf of Petitioner
` Dish Network, LLC
`
`Page 3
`
`APPEARANCES, CONTINUED:
`
` McANDREWS HELD & MALLOY, LTD.
` 500 West Madison Street, 34th Floor
` Chicago, Illinois 60661
` (312)775-8000, by:
` MR. PETER J. McANDREWS
` pmcandrews@mcandrews-ip.com, and
` MR. CHRISTOPHER SCHARFF
` cscharff@mcandrews-ip.com, and
` MR. ANDREW KARP
` akarp@mcandrews-ip.com, and
` MR. SCOTT McBRIDE
` smcbride@mcandrews-ip.com,
`
` Appearing on Behalf of Patent Owner
`
`REPORTED BY: SUZANNE DUDA
` CSR-3199, RPR, CRR
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` R E C O R D
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Good afternoon. This is
` Judge Medley. On the call with me are Judges
` Deshpande and Jefferson. This is a conference call
` regarding IPR 2016-01006, -01007, -01008, -01009,
` -1020, and -0121, Cisco Systems vs. TQ Delta.
` Who is on the call for Petitioner?
` MR. McCOMBS: Judge Medley, this is David
` McCombs for Cisco Systems along with Gregory Huh
` and Theo Foster.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Thank you.
` And for Patent Owner?
` MR. McANDREWS: Yes, Your Honor, this is
` Peter McAndrews, and I have with me Scott McBride,
` Chris Scharff and Andrew Karp.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay. We understand that
` Patent Owner requests authorization to file motions
` to strike the replies in the six proceedings or
` authorization to file surreplies in each of the six
` proceedings. And so we'll begin with Patent
` Owner's explanation stating specifically the basis
` for the requested relief.
` MR. McANDREWS: Yes, Your Honor.
` The Petitioner in their replies have
`
`Page 5
` raised a large number of new arguments and had
` submitted quite a bit of new evidence. It's
` evidence that patent owner could not have
` anticipated and has not had an opportunity to
` address or submit counterevidence to.
` Examples of what has been submitted here
` are, for example, Petitioner makes a conclusory
` statement in their petition, we point out that it's
` conclusory and unsupported, and rather than
` responding to that argument by pointing out where
` in the record the argument is made specific or
` supported by the evidence, they instead submit a
` new specific argument and new evidence.
` Another example would be where we have
` pointed out that the argument that they present is
` incorrect, and rather than coming back and
` explaining why their argument was correct, they've
` instead changed their argument. They changed it
` into something completely different that could not
` have been addressed by the Patent Owner in the
` first instance.
` Additionally, there are instances where
` we have pointed out that they had no evidence for
` an assertion, and rather than coming back and
`
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` explaining where that evidence is in the record for
` the assertion, they had submitted new evidence, new
` evidence that we have not had an adequate
` opportunity to respond to or to, for example,
` submit our own expert's interpretation of that
` evidence.
` I can provide some specific instances of
` where this has occurred; however, just in
` summary -- and we've put this in an email to
` Petitioner's counsel -- we listed -- for the 1006
` and 1009 proceedings we've listed four new
` arguments, four instances of new argument or new
` evidence, for the 1007, 1008, and then also for the
` 1009, because it has some additional arguments,
` we've listed eight new instances of new evidence or
` new argument, and then for the 1021 and 1020
` proceedings we've listed six separate instances of
` new argument or evidence.
` I could go through those or I could give
` you a couple anecdotal versions of those, but I
` believe that the more efficient way to get a proper
` record before the panel would be to allow
` Petitioner to submit these in writing in summary
` format as a precursor to determining whether we
`
`Page 7
` would be allowed to file a motion to strike or the
` surreply if the panel believed that's necessary as
` a threshold to allowing us to file a motion to
` strike or in the alternative to reply in the first
` place.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay, I understand.
` I think -- so you've probably -- before
` we heard from Petitioner, you probably both are
` familiar with both procedures sometimes when this
` issue -- this type of thing comes up that the Board
` sometimes will allow the parties to file a listing
` like you are proposing, Patent Owner?
` MR. McANDREWS: Yes, Your Honor, we've
` seen that listing in other cases, and that is what
` I'm referring to.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: So that kind of is a
` precursor to help us to figure out how to proceed.
` And just -- as both parties know, I mean,
` we appreciate the help, but we understand that --
` you know, our own rules which, you know, are
` replies only able to respond to arguments raised in
` a corresponding opposition or a Patent Owner
` response, and it's not supposed to make, you know,
` a person's case. So we're aware of that, and, you
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` know, we -- but the listing might help us in such a
` situation as this.
` So we'll hear from Petitioner at this
` time.
` MR. McANDREWS: Your Honor, I apologize.
` This is Peter McAndrews. If I might add one
` additional thing about the listing?
` The listing that we have seen -- and,
` granted, I haven't, you know, done thorough enough
` research to know that I've seen all of them -- but
` if a listing is allowed, what I've seen is that
` there's a listing by Patent Owner of the arguments
` that are allegedly new, and then the responsive
` listing for whatever reason which required to show
` where -- why the reply is responsive to something
` in the Patent Owner response. But that's really
` not the issue, the issue is whether the reply
` includes new evidence that should have been
` presented in the petition.
` I just wanted to point that out, Your
` Honor, just in the event that you had a particular
` type of listing in response to the listing in mind.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Right. And I think it's
` listings that are generally that I'm aware of is
`
`Page 9
`
` because the Petitioner's response to the
` allegation, if you will, is that, well, our -- you
` know, it was necessitated. We had to -- you know,
` we couldn't have anticipated a type of argument.
` So -- but I understand what you're saying.
` Okay, so we'll hear from Petitioner.
` MR. McCOMBS: Yes, Your Honor.
` Judge Medley, first of all I'd just point
` out that our position is that our petition replies
` are fully compliant with Rule 42.23(b) and that we
` understand that the arguments that we raise are
` supposed to be responding to the arguments raised
` in the Patent Owner response, and that is what we
` have done. We believe that the Board is fully
` capable of evaluating that in reviewing the
` replies.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay. That's all you
` have?
` So if we authorize them to file a
` listing, would you want to file a responsive
` listing?
` MR. McCOMBS: Yes, Your Honor. I don't
` think we have an objection to the list format,
` we've seen that in other cases, I would just like
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`Page 10
` to make clear on the record that this should not be
` a substitute for additional briefing and that a
` list is a list.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Right.
` MR. McCOMBS: And if that is what the
` Board has in mind, we're fully capable of providing
` a response to such a list.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay. All right. Let me
` put you on hold and the panel will confer.
` Do either of the parties have anything
` else to add?
` MR. McANDREWS: Your Honor, yes. This is
` Peter McAndrews for Patent Owner.
` One concern that we had with merely
` providing a listing at this time is that there's
` going to be some time delay here, and,
` unfortunately, we find ourselves in the situation
` where we are less than six weeks to the trial date,
` to the oral hearing date, and we have to cover a
` number of things between now and then, including,
` you know, we're cross-examining witnesses and, you
` know, we have authorizations that will become due.
` And so if the turn-around on this listing
` and then Your Honor's decision on whether we can
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`Page 11
` even file a motion to strike in the first instance
` causes significant delay, this is going to be
` difficult for us to pull off in the limited amount
` of time.
` And so I'd just like to make a request
` that Patent Owner would prefer to be allowed to go
` right to the motion to strike where, of course, we
` would provide a summary listing up front of the
` issues, but then it would immediately provide, you
` know, the reasons why we believe each of these
` issues are new and should have been raised and are
` violative of the trial guide in CFR.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay, I understand, and
` I'm sure Petitioner opposes that.
` MR. McCOMBS: Yes, Your Honor.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: All right. So let us
` confer for a few minutes, and then we'll get back
` online.
` (Discussion held off the record.)
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay, this is Judge Medley
` back online.
` We've conferred. We think at this point
` that the best thing to do is for us to receive the
` list from both parties. Today we haven't really
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` heard anything that would compel us to authorize a
` motion to strike and/or a motion for surreplies.
` So it might be that we just receive the
` list and that we use that as kind of a placeholder
` so that when we decide the cases, we can reference
` those lists and then determine whether, you know,
` on our own whether the arguments and the reply go
` beyond the scope of what should be in a reply.
` So we'll allow both parties to file a
` list in serial succession. So, Patent Owner, you
` will file your list followed by Petitioner's list.
` And we'll send out an order probably by tomorrow.
` Are there any questions?
` MR. McANDREWS: Yes, Your Honor. For
` Patent Owner it sounds like based on the timing of
` this that this will preclude Patent Owner from
` submitting a surreply. In the event that the Board
` were to determine that this is not new argument at
` a later date, it would have eliminated our ability
` to then file a surreply.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Yeah, we're capable of
` asking for briefing at any time. I mean, even if
` we get to oral argument and we determine that we
` want more briefing we can ask for more briefing.
`
`Page 13
` So I don't think that's a concern right now, I
` think we just need a starting point to see what
` you're talking about and then we can go from there.
` Any other questions?
` MR. McCOMBS: Not from Petitioner. Thank
` you.
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay, thank you. We are
` adjourned.
` MR. McANDREWS: Your Honor, I apologize.
` Peter McAndrews. The timing of this?
` JUDGE MEDLEY: Uh-huh. It will be short.
` If we send out an order tomorrow, Patent Owner will
` probably need to get in their list by, you know,
` I'd say mid next week and followed by Petitioner's
` list three or four days after that.
` Okay. Any other questions?
` All right, thank you. We are adjourned.
` MR. McCOMBS: Thank you.
` MR. McANDREWS: Thank you.
` (Record closed at 3:16 p.m. EST)
` * * * * *
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`Page 14
` CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
`
`I certify that this transcript, consisting of 14 pages,
`is a complete, true, and correct transcript of the
`telephonic conference call proceedings taken in this
`case on June 21, 2017.
`
`June 23, 2017
`
` ________________________________
` Suzanne Duda, CSR-3199, RPR, CRR
` Notary Public, Clinton County, Michigan
` Acting in the County of Clinton
` My commission expires: May 6, 2019
`
`Thompson Court Reporters, Inc
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`A
`ability 12:19
`able 7:21
`about 8:7 13:3
`above-entitled 1:17
`Acting 14:16
`add 8:6 10:11
`additional 6:14 8:7
`10:2
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`address 5:5
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`adequate 6:3
`adjourned 13:8,17
`after 13:15
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`akarp@mcandre...
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`11:6
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`an 5:4,24 6:3,9 9:23
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`any 12:13,22 13:4
`13:16
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`2:1 3:1
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`3:15
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`asking 12:22
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`4:19
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`by 2:5,18 3:6,23
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`14:1
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`changed 5:18,18
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`3:9
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`evidence 5:2,3,12
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`explaining 5:17 6:1
`explanation 4:21
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`F
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