RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` )
` H&S MANUFACTURING COMPANY, )
` INC., )
` ) Case IPR2016-00950
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
` OXBO INTERNATIONAL )
` CORPORATION, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` _____________________________)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RALPH SHIRLEY
`
` Los Angeles, California
`
` Tuesday, February 14, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`
`SHANDA GABRIEL
`
`CSR No. 10094
`
`Job No. MP-111579
`
`Pages 1-239
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` )
` H&S MANUFACTURING COMPANY, )
` INC., )
` ) Case IPR2016-00950
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
` OXBO INTERNATIONAL )
` CORPORATION, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` _____________________________)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF RALPH SHIRLEY
`
` Los Angeles, California
`
` Tuesday, February 14, 2017
`
`Reported by:
`
`SHANDA GABRIEL
`
`CSR No. 10094
`
`Job No. MP-111579
`
`Pages 1-239
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`
`
`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
`
`Page 2
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` Videotaped deposition of RALPH SHIRLEY,
`
`taken on behalf of Oxbo International Corporation at
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`300 S. Grand Avenue, Los Angeles, California,
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`commencing at 8:57 a.m., Tuesday, February 14, 2017,
`
`before SHANDA GABRIEL, CSR No. 10094.
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`FOR H&S MANUFACTURING:
`
` PATTERSON THUENTE PEDERSEN, P.A.
` BY: ERIC H. CHADWICK
` Attorney at Law
` 80 South Eighth Street, Suite 4800
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` 612.349.5740
` chadwick@ptslaw.com
`
`FOR OXBO INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION:
`
` MERCHANT & GOULD P.C.
` BY: JEFFREY S. WARD
` Attorney at Law
` 10 East Doty Street, Suite 600
` Madison, Wisconsin 53703
` 608.280.6751
` jward@merchantgould.com
`
` MERCHANT & GOULD
` BY: EMILY M. WESSELS
` Attorney at Law
` 80 South 8th Street, Suite 3200
` Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
` 612.336.4627
` ewessels@merchantgould.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` DANIEL ROCCO, VIDEOGRAPHER
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 3
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION BY PAGE
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`MR. WARD 6, 231
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`MR. CHADWICK 222
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 1 Patent Owner's Notice of 6
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` Deposition of Ralph Shirley
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`Exhibit 2 Declaration of Ralph Shirley, 7
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` P.E., CFEI
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`Exhibit 3 Declaration of Daniel J. 73
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` Undersander
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`Exhibit 4 U.S. Patent Number 8,166,739 110
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`Exhibit 5 European Patent Application, 138
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` EP 0 789 990
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`Exhibit 6 Decision, Institution of Inter 161
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` Partes Review regarding case
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` IPR2016-00950
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X (CONTINUED)
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`Exhibit 7 U.S. Patent Number 4,932,196 174
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`Exhibit 8 U.S. Patent Number 6,775,969 178
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`Exhibit 9 U.S. Patent Number 5,031,394 190
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`Exhibit 10 U.S. Patent Number 6,415,590 219
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`www.deposition.com
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 5
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` Los Angeles, California
`
` Tuesday, February 14, 2017
`
` 8:57 a.m.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins Volume I,
`
`DVD number 1, in the deposition of Ralph Shirley in
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`the matter of H&S -- S Manufacturing Company, Inc.,
`
`versus Oxbo International Corporation. Case number
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`is IPR2016-00950.
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` Today's date is Tuesday, February 14, 2017.
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`The time on the video monitor is 8:57 a.m. The
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`video operator today is Daniel Rocco contracted by
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`DTI.
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` This video deposition is taking place at
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`300 South Grand Avenue, Suite 2800, Los Angeles,
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`California.
`
` Counsel, please identify yourself and state
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`whom you represent.
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` MR. CHADWICK: Eric Chadwick on behalf of
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`H&S Manufacturing.
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` MR. WARD: Jeff Ward of Merchant & Gould
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`for Oxbo. Also with me is Emily -- Emily Wessels of
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`Merchant & Gould.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the reporter please
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`swear in the witness.
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`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 6
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` RALPH SHIRLEY,
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` having been first duly sworn, was
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` examined and testified as follows:
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please begin.
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. WARD:
`
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Shirley.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Would you state and spell your full name
`
`for the record, please.
`
` A. Ralph E. Shirley. Last name is spelled
`
`S-h-i-r-l-e-y.
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` MR. WARD: Okay. Let's -- let's mark as
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`our first exhibit, Patent Owner's Notice of
`
`Deposition of Ralph Shirley.
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` (Exhibit 1 was marked for
`
` identification by the C.S.R. and
`
` attached hereto.)
`
`BY MR. WARD:
`
` Mr. Shirley, do you have Exhibit Number 1?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Have you seen this document before?
`
` A. Yes.
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 7
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` Q. Okay. You understand that you're here to
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`testify in IPR2016-950?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And we're here to talk about U.S. Patent
`
`8,166,739?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And if it's okay with you, we'll just say
`
`the '739 patent throughout the day.
`
` Is that -- is that fine?
`
` A. That's acceptable.
`
` Q. Okay. Good. All right.
`
` I'd also like to mark as Exhibit 2, the
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`declaration of Ralph Shirley, P.E., CFEI dated
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`April 15, 2016, and also Exhibit 1009 in the IPR
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`proceeding.
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` (Exhibit 2 was marked for
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` identification by the C.S.R. and
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` attached hereto.)
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`BY MR. WARD:
`
` Q. Can you identify this document,
`
`Mr. Shirley?
`
` A. Yes, it's a declaration that I gave back in
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`April concerning this case.
`
` Q. Okay. Sitting here today, do you have any
`
`changes or -- or corrections that you'd like to
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`
`
`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 8
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`make?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Okay. So at this point, it's your -- it's
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`your position that everything in here is -- is still
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`accurate; is that right?
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` A. I believe so, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Let's go to attachment A toward the
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`back, which is your CV, hopefully.
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` Do you have it?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Okay. So just formally so we make sure
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`this is your CV, is this your CV?
`
` A. Yes, it is.
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` Q. And sitting here today, is this complete
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`and accurate?
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` A. I have two forms of -- of the CV. This is
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`the two-page version. There's a -- a 20-some-odd
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`page version that I use when I testify in fire
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`events.
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` Q. And what's different between this version
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`and the 20-page version?
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` A. The firemen like to show that they've had
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`lots of continuing education. So that version of it
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`has all my continuing education attached to it. But
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`it's kind of --
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 9
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` Q. What kind of continuing education is that,
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`generally?
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` A. It's courses I've taken along the way in my
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`career of 40 years, of continuing education
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`materials, stress analysis, advancements in finite
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`element analysis, fire investigation, litigation of
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`personal injury. There's a whole bunch of different
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`types of courses I've taken along the way.
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` Q. Okay. Have you taken any courses in patent
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`law, for example?
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` A. I have not.
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` Q. Have you taken any additional continuing
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`education courses in agricultural engineering, for
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`example?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What types of courses?
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` A. My opportunity at Deere gave me a lot of
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`work with the American Society of Agricultural
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`Engineers. They had seminars and things that I took
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`advantage of.
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` Deere, themselves, presented coursework in
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`the field of agriculture and what was going on, and
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`I took advantage of those when I had the
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`opportunity.
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` Q. Okay. When -- when, if you know, is the
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 10
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`last time you took a continuing education course
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`relating to agricultural engineering --
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` A. I don't remember.
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` Q. -- and agricultural products?
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` A. I don't remember.
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` MR. WARD: Counsel, obviously we'd like
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`the -- we'd like the copy of the full 20-page CV
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`produced.
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` MR. CHADWICK: Okay.
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`BY MR. WARD:
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` Q. All right. Well, we'll go with the short
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`version for today, it sounds like.
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` A. It's what I use in everything except fire.
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` Q. Okay. And why do you make a distinction
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`between using this particular CV in certain types of
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`cases and using the longer CV in terms of the fire
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`cases?
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` A. In the fire cases, when the firemen present
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`their CVs, they're -- they're very impressive
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`because of the volume. And so I made that one to be
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`comparable to theirs.
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` And then normal cases where you're simply
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`an engineer with expertise, I just use the short
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`version.
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` Q. Okay. So in this case you're considering
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 11
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`yourself as acting as an engineer --
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. -- is that correct?
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` All right. By whom are you currently
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`employed?
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` A. Test, Incorporated.
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` Q. And what is Test, Incorporated?
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` A. It's the company that I formed in 2009 to
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`do accident and -- and fire investigation and
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`consulting engineering.
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` Q. Okay. And what does -- what does Test,
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`Inc. stand for, if anything? Is that an acronym?
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` A. It's an acronym. It's for The Evidence
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`Speaks Truth. We wanted to call it Physical
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`Evidence Speaks Truth, but P-e-s-t just wasn't a
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`good acronym.
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` Q. And how many employees are there of Test,
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`Inc.?
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` A. Two.
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` Q. You're one of them, I assume?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And who is the other?
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` A. My wife.
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` Q. And what is her role at Test?
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` A. She's the bookkeeper. She's the office
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 12
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`administrator.
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` Q. And what does Test, Inc. do? What services
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`do they perform?
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` A. I do accident investigation, fire
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`investigation, and then consulting engineering, and
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`in this case, patent representation.
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` Q. Okay. So, for example, at the top of your
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`CV you've got six areas of specialization.
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` Are those accurate as to what you're
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`normally doing?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And I think you talked about doing some
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`patent work or patent representation --
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. -- is that correct?
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` And how many times in your career have you
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`done that?
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` A. This is the second one.
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` Q. Okay. When -- when was the first time you
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`were -- became involved in a case with patents?
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` A. Must have been about two years ago.
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` Q. And what type of technology was involved in
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`that case?
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` A. It was actually a distinction between
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`trademark and patent, on tires.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 13
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` Q. Tires for any particular type of machine?
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` A. Yes, for -- for off-road use.
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` Q. And did you provide a -- an opinion or a
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`declaration in that case?
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` A. I don't think we got that far. We did
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`quite a bit of test work for them, and I don't
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`remember giving a deposition. And if we gave a
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`declaration, I don't remember it.
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` Q. What kind of test work did you do in
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`connection with that case?
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` A. We were comparing two different types of
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`tires; the one that was trademarked versus the one
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`that was not trademarked, trying to determine if
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`there was a difference in the performance of the two
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`vehicles, or two -- two tires.
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` The tire was trademarked and the question
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`was should it have been patented.
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` Q. And did you provide an opinion as to
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`whether the product should have been patented or
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`not?
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` A. I don't think so.
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` Q. Sitting here today, you don't recall or --
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` A. I don't recall where we got to with it.
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`Our -- our test work was inconclusive.
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` Q. And in connection with that case, did you
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 14
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`come to learn anything about patent law?
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` A. Some.
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` Q. What did you learn?
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` A. Well, that's a hard thing to describe when
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`you -- I have six patents, so I've been exposed to
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`the patent process six times successfully, and I
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`don't know how many times I turned in patent
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`disclosures to Deere & Company, then we went through
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`the process of saying, "Is this a patentable item or
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`not?"
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` I have some experience from that background
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`more so than from the -- the tire thing.
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` Q. Okay. Now -- so other than that particular
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`case, this is the only other case in which you've
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`been involved that contains patent issues?
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` And I'll specify that with respect to your
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`work at Test, Inc.
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. Okay. And at any time in your previous
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`employment did you become involved with patent
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`issues, other than being involved in the application
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`process?
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` A. I don't understand your question. I'm
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`sorry.
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` Q. Did you -- you worked at Deere for -- for a
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 15
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`period of time, correct?
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` A. 32 years. Yes.
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` Q. And you have some patents?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Did you have any other involvement with
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`patents during your previous employment, other than
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`the process of applying for and getting those
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`patents?
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` A. I gave testimony in court that had to do
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`with the patent, one of the patents.
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` Q. And what was the court case about?
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` A. A man was killed by a tractor, and the
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`patent that I had would have prevented the accident.
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` Q. Okay. So in that case you didn't provide
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`testimony regarding the validity of the patent, did
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`you?
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` A. No, except that the patent existed and we
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`were demonstrating that the technology, as far as a
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`patent went, did not exist at the time that the
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`machine was made that he had injured himself with.
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` Q. Okay. So the point of your testimony was
`
`that the technology that you were involved in that
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`may have prevented this accident simply did not
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`exist when the accident occurred; is --
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` A. That's correct.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 16
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` Q. -- that correct?
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` Okay. Now, just briefly, if we talk about
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`your education for a minute, can you just briefly
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`describe your educational background starting with
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`college?
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` A. I went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and got
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`a bachelor of science in agricultural engineering,
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`which is similar to mechanical engineering except
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`that it contains quite a few more courses; things in
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`soils, courses in plant material, courses in crop
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`production, specifically design of agricultural
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`equipment, properties of agricultural materials,
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`what's the sheer strength of straw, what's the
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`durability of tomatoes transporting. Interesting
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`subjects to some people but not to most.
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` And then I did a master's project at
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`Oklahoma State University and then went to work for
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`Deere.
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` Q. What did your master's -- did you do a
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`thesis in connection with your master's?
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` A. It was a master's of engineering, so it
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`wasn't a thesis, it was a report.
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` The report was on the rotating conical
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`screen separator for solid liquid separation of beef
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`waste. We were separating beef waste.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 17
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` Q. Okay. I think we can probably leave it at
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`that.
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` So it sounds like you had some -- you've
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`had some education in -- with respect to I guess
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`what I'd call crop science and harvesting
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`operations.
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` Is that fair to say?
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. And how would you characterize your
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`education with respect to the harvesting process?
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` A. Well, the ag engineering degree was -- was
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`focused on -- on crops, basically, on various types
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`of crops and how they're -- they are -- how the
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`mechanization of them has come about. That was the
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`agricultural engineering portion of it.
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` Q. What do you mean by your answer that "how
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`the mech- -- mechanization of those crops has come
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`about"?
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` A. Well, understanding the different processes
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`that -- that are involved in crop productions was
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`something we studied in -- in agricultural
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`engineering, beyond what you would normally get if
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`you were a mechanical engineer or aeronautical
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`engineering or something. Those areas, they have
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`different focuses.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 18
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` Q. So you have an understanding of the general
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`processes in crop production?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And you have a general understanding of the
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`processes for harvesting crops?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. How are crops harvested? Does it depend on
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`the type of crop?
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` A. Very much.
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` Q. Why?
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` A. Because you want to get as much of the crop
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`as you can, and crops are harvested in different --
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`for different parts of the plant.
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` If you're harvesting tomatoes, you don't
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`use a corn combine. That's pretty obvious that it's
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`designed for corn.
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` Q. Did you learn anything about harvesting
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`grains?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And did you learn anything about harvesting
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`hay or forage for dairy animals?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Is there a difference between those two
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`processes?
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` A. There is.
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 19
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` Q. What are the differences?
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` A. Harvesting hay is usually harvested to be a
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`drier condition because if you bale it at more than
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`15 percent moisture content, you get a higher
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`respiration and you get potential for deterioration
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`of the crop and even spontaneous combustion.
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` And when you're harvesting for silage, then
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`you would end up with higher moisture content
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`because you're going to store it in an air-tight
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`container and let fermentation take place.
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` Q. What about, is there a difference between
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`harvesting hay or silage and harvesting grains, such
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`as wheat, for example, or corn?
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` A. I'm sorry. Maybe I didn't answer your
`
`question the first time.
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` Is there a difference between harvesting
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`for silage versus harvesting for corn or wheat?
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` Q. I think I understand your answer between --
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`there's a difference in at least the time in which
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`hay and silage are harvested; is that --
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. -- correct? Okay.
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` Is there a difference in the way that
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`grains are harvested compared to how hay is
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`harvested, for example?
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`
`
`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 20
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` A. If you want to get the grain, specifically,
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`as opposed to wanting the total crop plant for
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`silage, you can harvest corn or wheat for silage.
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`That's done.
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` But if you want to harvest the grain from
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`corn, which is typical of midwestern harvesting,
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`you -- you let it dry down and you harvest it with a
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`combine, which is a -- uses a -- combines two
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`processes, the gathering and the threshing. That's
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`why it's called a combine, the machine is called a
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`combine.
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` Q. Maybe I missed it, but when -- when would
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`somebody use a combine?
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` A. For harvesting of -- of where you wanted
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`the grain out of the material, either the wheat
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`kernels or the corn kernels or the barley or rice or
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`whatever you're combining.
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` Q. Okay. Okay. Are -- are wheats and corns
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`commonly used to make silage?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And is that specific to a certain part of
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`the country or is that generally true with respect
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`to the whole United States?
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` A. A lot of corn is used for silage all over
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`the world. Wheat, less so. There's wheat harvested
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`
`
`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 21
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`in this part of the country for silage. The wheat
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`that you grow in drier regions, like Nebraska, et
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`cetera, is typically harvested for the grain.
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` Q. Okay. I think going back to the -- to the
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`use of the combine when you want the actual grain,
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`you said there's two processes, the gathering and
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`the threshing process; is that right?
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. What's threshing?
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` A. Threshing is where you -- you run the
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`material between a -- what's called a concave and a
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`sieve. It's a -- the concave is a screen that is
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`concave, and the -- there's a rotating drum that has
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`a small clearance. The clearance is defined by what
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`kind of crop you're harvesting. And so if you're --
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`if you're harvesting corn, you run the concave quite
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`wide so that you run it so that it knocks the
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`kernels off the cob.
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` If you're running wheat, you run it much
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`closer so that you're knocking the kernels loose
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`from the plant structure. And then the concave has
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`holes in it that the grain falls through.
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` Q. Okay. And then when the grain falls
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`through those holes, what's done with it at that
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`point?
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`Page 22
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` A. It goes across what's called a straw
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`walker, and the straw walker blows air from
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`underneath, and it separates whatever straw or
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`chaff, et cetera, that's fallen through the cracks
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`to pick up -- to separate the grain, which then
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`falls through and -- from the straw and chaff, and
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`the straw and chaff is blown out the rear of the
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`machine, and the grain then is collected at the
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`bottom and augured to a tank on top of the machine.
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` Q. Okay. And then how is the grain then
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`collected from the combine?
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` A. The tank on top of the combine that you
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`auger, the grain that's been cleaned from the
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`process is augured into a wagon or truck or whatever
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`conveyance you want to take it out of the field
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`with.
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` Q. Okay. Let's just go back to your --
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`your -- your time, your work -- work history.
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` Now, you were at Deere for a significant
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`period of time. It looks like 1974 through at least
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`2006.
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And when you initially started at Deere, it
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`looks like you list first 1974 to 1993, is that
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`right, on your CV as being in drivetrain
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`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
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`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
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`engineering?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. What did you do in the -- in that specific
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`role?
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` A. I had a variety of -- of roles. But in
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`drivetrain engineering, we were engineering the
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`transmissions and axles, differentials, power
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`takeoff drives for the tractors and other vehicles.
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` Q. Okay. And you say "other vehicles," what
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`types of vehicles were those?
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` A. We had different projects that went on
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`during that time.
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` Q. Were you involved at all with combines, for
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`example?
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` A. I was aware of the technologies that the
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`combines were using for drivetrains; part of the
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`crossover of exchange of information we had with the
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`company, within the company.
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` Q. Was that a separate part of the company,
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`though, that would work on drivetrains, for example,
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`for combines?
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` A. The combine engineering had their own
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`drivetrain people but we'd -- we'd cross paths along
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`the way.
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` Q. So is it fair to say that most of your work
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`in drivetrain engineering was with respect to
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`drivetrains for tractors?
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` A. Most of it, yes.
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` Q. What proportion would you say out of the
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`entire work that you did related to tractors as with
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`respect to other equipment?
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` A. 95 percent, probably.
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` Q. Tractors?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And in this period from 1974 to 1993, did
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`your role change at all?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. How so?
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` A. In the beginning I was a junior engineer,
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`and then promoted to be an engineer, and then
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`finally a senior engineer and project manager. So
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`it -- it was just a progression of up the ladder, if
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`you would.
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` Q. Okay. And I assume your responsibilities
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`increased as you moved along?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And throughout that period, you're still --
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`your main area of focus was drivetrains for
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`tractors?
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` A. As -- as the responsibilities increased,
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`the focus got to be less on the drivetrains on the
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`details, the bearing design, or the gear designs,
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`and more towards how the vehicle fit in with the
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`rest -- how -- how the product, the drivetrain fit
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`into the rest of the vehicle and making it a useful
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`product for the customer.
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` Q. Okay. And was that still then 95 percent
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`tractor related?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Did you design any drivetrains for
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`harvesters?
`
` A. I don't think so.
`
` Q. How about windrow mergers?
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` A. No. I was aware of the technology.
`
` Q. What were you aware -- what were you aware
`
`of with respect to either harvesters or windrow
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`mergers during this 1974 to 1993 period?
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` A. Well, when we designed the power takeoff,
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`some of the windrow -- the windrowers were vehicles
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`that were towed behind and they were driven by the
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`power takeoff. And there were issues of vibration,
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`et cetera, that we had to consider in the design of
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`those machines.
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` Q. Okay. On your last answer you used the
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`word windrower. Do you -- are you using the word
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`"windrow merger" and "windrower" to mean the same
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`thing or do they mean something different to you?
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` A. A windrow merger is a machine that picks up
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`the down material and passes it on to a conveyance
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`and then pushes it out to the end into a windrow.
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`It's a special class of machines that are
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`windrowers, essentially, in that it sometimes is
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`used for picking up previously-made windrows and
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`combining those windrows into a larger windrow.
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` Q. Okay. In your last answer --
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` A. The technologies that are involved --
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` Q. I'm sorry.
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` A. -- in that are the same technologies that
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`are involved in a windrower.
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` Q. Okay. So how -- I guess I'm just not
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`getting it.
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` How is a windrower in your mind different
`
`than a windrow merger?
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` A. A windrower can go through the field and
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`pick up the down material.
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` Q. Okay.
`
` A. And then either cut it and then make it
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`into a windrow or just pick it up, if it has a
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`pickup head on it, and pass it to the end of the --
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`and make it into a windrow.
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` The windrow merger is called that because
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`it takes -- it's much -- substantially wider and it
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`takes windrowed product already and picks up those
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`windrows and passes them to the end to make an even
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`larger windrow.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. Picks up multiple windrows.
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` Q. Picks up windrows and merges them into
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`multiple windrows or larger windrows?
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` A. Larger windrows.
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` Q. So with respect to the windrower, I think
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`you said it picks up the down material.
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` What do you mean by "down material"?
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` A. If you cut the material and then you make
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`sure that you pick it up, either by use of tines,
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`the same as a windrow -- windrower, or by a sickle
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`bar cutter and a -- a reel that -- that gathers the
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`material onto the conveyance and then it conveys it
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`into a windrow.
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` Q. Okay. So what's -- what's down material?
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` A. Sometimes you cut hay and let it dry for a
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`bit.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. Just cut.
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` Q. Okay. So down material is material that's
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`been cut?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. So as you define a windrower, do
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`windrowers have a cutting apparatus or they're just
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`picking up material that's been cut?
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` A. Most windrowers have a cutting apparatus on
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`them, yes.
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` Q. And what are they cutting?
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` A. Whatever the product is, the forage that
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`you want to gather.
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` Q. Okay. And do windrow mergers have a
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`cutting apparatus on them?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. So a windrower, in your mind, can
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`either cut forage that's not previously been cut or
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`it can take prev- -- it can take previously-cut
`
`forage and push that into -- into a windrow; is that
`
`right?
`
` A. That would be possible, yes.
`
` Q. Okay. Does it do -- in your mind, is it
`
`designed to do both of those tasks or one more than
`
`the other?
`
` A. Well, most windrowers have a -- have a
`
`cutter on them.
`
` Q. Okay. In your work in this case, I'm sure
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Minnesota
`1-877-489-0367
`www.deposition.com
`
`
`
`RALPH SHIRLEY February 14, 2017
`
`Page 29
`
`you've come across maybe previously the term
`
`swather?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What's a swather?
`
` A. It's a windrower.
`
` Q. O
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