Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` HOLOGIC, INC., )
` ) Case Nos.
` Petitioner, ) IPR2016-00820
` ) IPR2016-00822
` -vs- )
` ) U.S. Patent
` ENZO LIFE SCIENCES, INC., ) No.
` Patent Owner. ) 7,064,197
` )
`
` VIDEOTAPED EXAMINATION OF
` BARRY W. WEINER
` _______________________________
` TAKEN ON
` TUESDAY, MARCH 21, 2017
`
`REPORTED BY:
`JESSIE WAACK, RDR, CRR, CCRR, CCR, NYACR, NYRCR
`
`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`Page 1 of 174
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`HOLOGIC EXHIBIT 1036
`Hologic v. Enzo
`
`
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` HOLOGIC, INC., )
` ) Case Nos.
` Petitioner, ) IPR2016-00820
` ) IPR2016-00822
` -vs- )
` ) U.S. Patent
` ENZO LIFE SCIENCES, INC., ) No.
` Patent Owner. ) 7,064,197
` )
`
` VIDEOTAPED EXAMINATION OF
` BARRY W. WEINER
` _______________________________
` TAKEN ON
` TUESDAY, MARCH 21, 2017
`
`REPORTED BY:
`JESSIE WAACK, RDR, CRR, CCRR, CCR, NYACR, NYRCR
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
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`Page 1 of 174
`
`HOLOGIC EXHIBIT 1036
`Hologic v. Enzo
`
`
`
`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
`
`2
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` HOLOGIC, INC., )
` ) Case Nos.
` Petitioner, ) IPR2016-00820
` ) IPR2016-00822
` -vs- )
` ) U.S. Patent
` ENZO LIFE SCIENCES, INC., ) No.
` ) 7,064,197
` Patent Owner. )
`
` VIDEOTAPED EXAMINATION of
`BARRY W. WEINER, taken at the instance of
`Petitioner, before JESSICA R. WAACK,
`Registered Professional Reporter, Registered
`Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter,
`Registered Diplomate Reporter, California
`Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified Court
`Reporter in New Jersey, New York Association
`Certified Reporter, New York Realtime Court
`Reporter and Notary Public of the State of New
`York, at Desmarmais, LLP, 230 Park Avenue, New
`York, New York, on Tuesday, March 21, 2017,
`commencing at 9:38 a.m. and concluding at
`1:20 p.m.
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
`
`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
` BY: ARPITA BHATTACHARYYA, Ph.D., ESQ.
` Two Seaport Lane
` Boston, Massachusetts 02210-2001
` (617) 646.1600 / (617) 646.1666 (FAX)
` arpita.bhattacharyya@finnegan.com
` Attorneys for the Petitioner,
` Hologic, Inc.
`
`FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
` BY: M. PAUL BARKER, ESQ. (Telephonically)
` Stanford Research Park
` 3300 Hillview Avenue
` Palo Alto, California 94304-1203
` (650) 849.6600 / (650) 849.6666 (FAX)
` paul.barker@finnegan.com
` Attorneys for the Petitioner,
` Hologic, Inc.
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T ' D
`
`DESMARAIS, LLP
` BY: JUSTIN P.D. WILCOX, ESQ.
` -and-
` BY: KERRI-ANN LIMBEEK, ESQ.
` 230 Park Avenue
` New York, New York 10169
` (212) 351.4905 / (212) 351.3401 (FAX)
` jwilcox@desmaraisllp.com
` klimbeek@dllp.com
` Attorneys for the Patent Owner,
` Enzo Life Sciences, Inc.
`
` A L S O P R E S E N T
`THOMAS DEVINE, videographer
`
` --o0o--
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` INDEX TO EXAMINATION
` WITNESS: BARRY W. WEINER
`EXAMINATION PAGE
` BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA 7
` BY MR. WILCOX 110
` BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA 134
` BY MR. WILCOX 144
`
` -o0o-
` INFORMATION REQUESTED
` None
`
` WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER
` None
`
` PORTIONS MARKED FOR CONFIDENTIALITY
` None
`
`NOTE: No new exhibits were marked.
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`09:39:31
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`09:39:41
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`March 21, 2017 9:38 a.m.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good
` morning. We are now on the record.
` Today's date is March 21, 2017, and
` the time is approximately 9:38 a.m.
` We are located at the offices of
` Desmarais, LLP located at 230 Park
` Avenue, New York, New York.
` We are taking the deposition of
` Barry W. Weiner in the matter of
` Hologic, Inc. vs. Enzo Life Sciences,
` Inc. pending in the Patent Trial and
` Appeal Board, Case numbers
` IPR-2016-820/IPR 2016-822.
` My name is Thomas Devine, and
` I'm the legal video specialist with
` Henderson Legal Services. The court
` reporter is Jessie Waack also with
` Henderson Legal Services.
` At this time, I would like to
` ask the attorneys present and those on
` the phone to please introduce
` themselves for the video record.
` Please state your name, the firm
` with which you are affiliated and whom
`
`202-220-4158
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` you represent after which Jessie will
` swear in the witness, and we can
` proceed.
` MS. BHATTACHARYYA: This is
` Arpita Bhattacharyya. I'm with the
` Finnegan law firm representing
` Hologic, and with me on the phone is
` Mr. Paul Barker, also with Finnegan
` representing Hologic.
` MR. WILCOX: Justin Wilcox from
` Desmarais, LLP. Along with me here
` today is my colleague Kerri-Ann
` Limbeek also of Desmarais, LLP.
` We're representing the witness,
` Mr. Weiner, and Enzo Life Sciences,
` Inc.
` * * * * *
` B A R R Y W E I N E R
` called as a witness herein,
` having been first duly sworn on
` oath, was examined and testified
` as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Weiner.
`
`202-220-4158
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`09:41:01
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`09:41:12
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` A. Good morning.
` Q. Can you please state your full
`name for the record.
` A. Barry Weiner.
` Q. Mr. Weiner, have you been
`deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Twenty-three.
` Q. Twenty-three. So you are
`probably very familiar with the process
`today.
` When was the last time you were
`deposed?
` A. Probably within the last six
`months.
` Q. Okay. Although you are very
`familiar, I just want to go over some very
`basic ground rules. Is that okay?
` A. Yes. Please.
` Q. The court reporter has just
`sworn you in. This means that you should
`give your full and accurate testimony to
`my questions today. Is that good?
` A. Yes.
`
`202-220-4158
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` Q. And can you think of any reason
`why you cannot give a full and accurate
`testimony today?
` A. No.
` Q. Throughout the deposition today,
`we will take periodic breaks. But if you
`need any break, just let me know.
` And I would only ask if I have a
`question pending that you answer my
`question first before we can take a break.
`Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And also we should make a
`concerted effort not to talk over each
`other. Otherwise it will be very hard for
`the court reporter to follow us. Is that
`fair?
` A. Just fine.
` Q. Okay. So let's get started.
` What did you do to prepare for
`the deposition today?
` A. I met with my counsel,
`Mr. Wilcox.
` Q. Okay.
` A. As well as I met with my
`
`202-220-4158
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`internal counsel at Enzo Bio Chem, our
`patent counsel.
` Q. Okay.
` A. And I met with Dr. Norman Kelker
`who was one of the parties that oversaw
`some of the document activity during the
`period in question.
` Q. So who is Enzo's internal
`counsel?
` A. Today it is Mr. Paul Diamond.
` Q. Okay. And when did you meet
`with him?
` A. I met with --
` Q. So you met with him to prepare
`for the deposition today?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Okay. Was it yesterday or when
`was that?
` A. I met with him yesterday.
` Q. Okay. And, generally, how long
`did you talk with him?
` A. I suspect an hour.
` Q. Okay. And when did you meet
`with Mr. Wilcox?
` A. I met with him yesterday.
`
`202-220-4158
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` Q. Okay. Generally, for how long
`did you discuss with him?
` A. I think we spoke for about two
`hours.
` Q. Okay. And Mr. Kelker, when did
`you meet with him?
` A. I met with him last week.
` Q. Okay. So is Mr. Kelker still at
`Enzo?
` A. Dr. Kelker is a long-term
`employee who retired who works with us on
`a part-time basis today.
` Q. And so Dr. Kelker, you said that
`he was working at Enzo at the time the
`'197 patent at issue here was filed?
` A. Dr. --
` MR. WILCOX: I'm going to object
` to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah.
` MR. WILCOX: Go ahead.
` THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the
` question?
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. Can you -- let's take a step
`back.
`
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` What was -- what did you discuss
`with Dr. Kelker?
` A. He was a signatory on some of
`these documents.
` Q. Uh-huh.
` A. And I just wanted to reiterate
`the processes as I recalled them for a
`period that took place almost 30 years
`ago.
` Q. Okay. So did you discuss the
`lab notebooks with him that are submitted
`as exhibits in this deposition?
` A. I questioned him on the policies
`and procedures as I remembered them to
`ensure that my recollection would be
`correct as to the practices of our
`scientific staff in terms of keeping their
`records.
` Q. Is Mr. Kelker a custodian -- or
`was he a custodian of the lab notebooks at
`Enzo?
` A. Dr. Kelker would review
`notebooks at the time, but he was not a
`custodian of the notebooks.
` Q. What was Dr. Kelker's role at
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`Enzo?
` A. Dr. Kelker was a senior research
`scientist and a director of science
`operations.
` Q. Was he -- when did Dr. Kelker
`start at Enzo?
` A. Dr. Kelker joined Enzo in the
`early '80s, really very soon after we went
`public, which was in 1980.
` Q. Would it be fair to say that he
`started around 1981?
` A. I would have to go back and
`check, but, yes, it could be that time
`frame.
` Q. Okay. And what was his -- and
`so what was he -- was he a scientist
`working in the lab, or what was his role?
` A. Dr. Kelker was an academic
`scientist who joined us. His role was
`very much one of oversight of the
`scientific operations.
` Q. He's not an inventor of the '197
`patent, is he?
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I don't believe
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` his name is included as an inventor of
` that patent.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. So why did you -- so why did you
`think that you had to talk to Dr. Kelker
`about the policies and lab notebook
`practice at Enzo?
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I spoke to
` Dr. Kelker, because he oversaw much of
` the scientific activity of the company
` from an administrative role as well as
` a contributory role. He is a PhD
` from -- he was a -- worked in a very
` high academic level at NYU before he
` joined us.
` He was a valued and strategic
` member of our scientific operation.
` And he would review and implement
` policy that we had put into place to
` maintain good practices throughout the
` organization.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. So would it be fair to say that
`he had put together some lab notebook
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`policies or practices at Enzo?
` A. I couldn't say that Dr. Kelker
`put them together. I think the policies
`and practices of Enzo were inherit in our
`outlook in the way we manage science.
` We were a young company that was
`populated by academics, looking at the
`discovery of new ideas, new inventions at
`the time when this technology was just
`burgeoning.
` All of our scientists came out
`of academia. They had a culture, a
`history of diligent research. I believe
`they were all trained extremely well in
`terms of maintaining competent, accurate,
`good records.
` The policy of keeping lab
`notebooks was a policy that we enforced
`and maintained, and we do until this day.
` Q. Okay.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel, I
` think your mic is falling down a
` little bit there. Just be mindful.
` Thank you.
` MS. BHATTACHARYYA: Thank you.
`
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sorry for the
` interruption.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. Let's take a step back. And I
`just want to make sure that you understand
`that this deposition is for a consolidated
`deposition for two IPR proceedings; IPR
`2016-00820 and IPR 2016-00822?
` A. Could you show me -- I don't
`have the numbers by memory, to be honest
`with you.
` Q. Okay. I can go ahead and
`introduce your declarations.
` A. That's fine. I just don't
`recall the numbers by memory --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- but I know this is concerning
`two --
` Q. Yeah.
` A. -- patent reviews.
` Q. Dr. Weiner -- sorry.
`Mr. Weiner, I just handed you your
`declarations for IPR 2016-00820 and
`IPR 2016-00822?
` A. Yes.
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` Q. Okay. So and you had said that
`you -- you had testified in -- 23 times in
`depositions; is that correct?
` A. Approximately.
` Q. Okay. And, generally, what were
`the cases that you testified in?
` A. Over the years, we've had many
`types of cases, whether they involved
`contract disputes, patent litigations or
`other types of shareholder challenges of
`various sorts. Also just general personal
`liability types of cases.
` We've been in business over 40
`years and have had a very -- you know, as
`a company, have had all of the traditional
`types of legal activities that a company
`in the public world might have.
` Q. Okay. Were they all involving
`Enzo Life Sciences or Enzo Bio Chem, the
`cases that you testified in?
` A. They all involved Enzo Bio Chem,
`Enzo Life Sciences, yes.
` Q. Okay. And have you testified at
`any trials?
` A. No, I have not.
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` Q. Have you testified in any cases
`involving the '197 patent?
` A. I did testify in certain cases,
`yes, that did involve the '197 patent.
` Q. Okay. Which cases were that?
` A. I believe it was, you know, the
`cases that were filed by Desmarais against
`the litigants in Delaware that have been,
`you know, put forth throughout this period
`of time.
` Q. And what was your role in -- in
`those litigations involving the '197
`patent?
` A. I'm an officer of the company.
`I have been with the company since its
`inception. My questioning of -- you know,
`involves various aspects of, you know,
`business practices of the company.
` I believe your organization was
`one that was present during some of these
`depositions, so you would have the record,
`I would suspect.
` Q. I'm not sure if Finnegan, in
`particular, was present in any of the
`depositions.
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` But, generally, what was the
`context of your testimony in the cases
`involving the '197 patent?
` A. I think it was broad-reaching
`about business practices, about contracts,
`about relationships, about interaction and
`agreements with parties.
` Q. Did you testify about the
`subject matter in your declaration for
`these two IPR proceedings?
` A. I cannot recall testifying about
`this subject matter, no.
` Q. So, Mr. Weiner, can you briefly
`describe your educational background
`post-high school?
` A. I have a bachelor's of arts in
`economics and a master's degree in
`finance.
` Q. So it is fair to say that you
`don't have a scientific background?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. What is your current
`position at Enzo?
` A. I'm the president and chief
`financial officer of Enzo Bio Chem.
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` Q. Can you briefly describe your
`role as the president and chief financial
`officer at Enzo?
` A. My role is to oversee much of
`the operational aspect of the company, its
`function in terms of the nature of being a
`New York Stock Exchange publicly traded
`corporation as well as in the general
`oversight of policies, practices and
`business activity and growth of our
`operational divisions.
` Q. Do you oversee any of the
`research and development activities at
`Enzo?
` A. As I responded, I'm not a
`scientist. So if the question posed is do
`I oversee research, the answer is
`tangential.
` I am a recipient of the product
`and the direction of that research,
`because it is my role to translate this --
`our science activity to the public
`community as a whole, to the financial
`community and to the business world.
` I don't technically oversee
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`science. I am not a scientist. But I am
`party to the practices, the policies, the
`product and the potential of the science.
` Q. And how often do you receive any
`information about the product and the
`potential of the R&D activities at Enzo?
` A. In one form or another, I may be
`party to our research activity on a daily
`basis.
` Q. Does somebody report that? Does
`somebody report those activities to you
`orally?
` A. The activities of the science
`are discussed in seminars. They are
`discussed in documentation occasionally.
`They are discussed in business strategy
`sessions.
` They are discussed on an
`operational level, because we run a rather
`significant operation today in terms of
`people, management and structure.
` So there are many different
`levels of oversight in this area.
` Q. And how long have you been at
`your current position as the president and
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`Weiner, Barry W.
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`CFO of Enzo?
` A. I'm one of the founders of the
`company, so I have had the title, I
`suspect, of vice president until the
`mid-'70s. And I've been president pretty
`much through the '80s until current time.
` Q. So is it fair to say that you
`were the president of Enzo at the time the
`'197 patent was filed?
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not sure --
` again, I would have to look at -- it's
` been so many years. I don't know
` exactly when I transformed from vice
` president to president. But it could
` have very well have been around that
` time.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. What was the position that you
`were in when you first started at Enzo?
` A. I was a vice president of Enzo
`Bio Chem.
` Q. And that was in the mid-1970s?
` A. Yes. Or a bit earlier, perhaps.
`I think I transformed in the mid-'70s is
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`when I changed role.
` Q. So throughout your career at
`Enzo, you were either a vice president or
`the president of Enzo?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And when you first
`started as vice president at Enzo, what
`was -- what was your responsibilities at
`Enzo?
` A. We formed Enzo as an
`entrepreneurial exercise. And in many
`ways our roles took the role of anything
`that had to be done to make a company
`that -- to turn a company from concept to
`a New York public stock exchange company
`today.
` Our roles change over time as
`the business evolves. But the issue of
`oversight, of policy, of formation of the
`company has always fallen within my role
`as well as a few other individuals within
`the company.
` And, you know, we have shaped
`and molded this company from its
`inception. So it is not, like, as an
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`entrepreneurial company you can silo a
`position.
` We had to do everything at
`points in time to build the company to
`where it is today.
` Q. But as you said before, you are
`not a scientist, so is it fair to say that
`you were not working in the lab with the
`scientists?
` A. Yes, that is true.
` Q. Okay. And what was your -- did
`you have contact with the inventors of the
`'197 patent?
` A. Yes, I did. Very much so. We
`were all, during this period, housed on
`the same floor. My office was literally
`50 feet from the laboratories.
` It was a small entrepreneurial
`organization. I can say fairly accurately
`that I had contact with every one of these
`inventors on a daily basis.
` Q. But you were not working with
`them in the lab, correct?
` A. I am not a scientist, and I do
`not work at the bench.
`
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`Case Nos. IPR2016-00820; IPR2016-00822
`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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`09:59:57
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`10:00:08
`
` Q. Okay. And what was your
`employment before you started at Enzo?
` A. I was a director of marketing at
`Colgate Palmolive.
` Q. What brought you to Enzo in the
`mid-1970s?
` A. In the mid-1970s --
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Be careful of
` your microphone. It's okay.
` THE WITNESS: Oh. In the
` mid-1970s, I formed this company with
` the gentleman who was currently the
` chairman of the company, Dr. Elazar
` Rabbani, who at the time was
` completing his PhD in biochemistry at
` Columbia.
` He had a vision, and I credited
` him with that vision, because I am not
` a scientist, where he saw the utility
` and the opportunity of using nucleic
` acids or DNA as informatic molecules
` long before what we know today as the
` genomics opportunity.
` At the time that we embarked on
` this, he had an idea to be able to
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` provide and supply reagents and kits
` and products to the research community
` that was home brewing them at the
` time.
` He was also party to the
` challenges and the obstacles that were
` potentially blocking the advancement
` of this technology to forward what we
` believed to be extremely valuable and
` exciting changes in the healthcare
` universe.
` As a result, when we formed this
` company in 1976, when bio technology
` was not even a word at this point in
` time, we focused on the utility of
` genomic content as an informatics
` molecule that could contribute to the
` betterments of healthcare and science.
` We saw the obstacle of the
` labeling technologies of the utilities
` within the laboratories.
` And his concept was to build an
` organization and a company that could
` provide solutions to the scientific
` universe or marketplace to better --
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` to provide better tools for discovery.
` And we did just that. And the
` result has been a systematic and, I
` think, strategic evolution of building
` the tools that have now generated some
` of the most fundamental changes and
` advancements in biological science.
` And such is our non-radioactive
` detective methodologies, which today
` is still the gold standard in the
` industry, which broke open modern day
` genomics to a point where technologies
` that needed to be used in a very
` advanced academic laboratory could be
` done in a high school lab.
` And many of our inventions and
` technologies were spawned during this
` period. And that was really our
` motive and initiative.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. Okay. I get the vision of Enzo
`that you are talking about, but you said
`"we." By "we," do you mean Dr. Rabbani
`and yourself?
` A. That's right.
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`Weiner, Barry W.
`March 21, 2017
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` Q. So Dr. Rabbani was the
`scientific person behind this endeavor?
`Would it be fair to say that?
` A. Yes.
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. And were you the business person
`behind the Enzo endeavor?
` Would it be fair to characterize
`that Dr. Rabbani was the scientific person
`behind the Enzo endeavor, and you were the
`business person or the business mind
`behind it?
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: As every
` enterprise, it's a collegial and
` interative [as spoken] process.
` Dr. Rabbani happens to be a very
` strong businessman, and he's also a
` brilliant scientist. I believe I have
` contributed on a business level.
` And I believe that we have been
` able to take the science as it is
` developed at the bench and transform
` it into utility, into products that
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` have broad demand and contribution.
` I think we all contribute in
` different ways. I don't believe one
` could point a finger and say it is
` black and white, this effort or that
` effort that is behind anything.
` I believe it's a collegial
` interactive process, and the test of
` time, I think, has shown that to be
` true.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. Okay. So but you had said that
`you are not a scientist, you did not work
`in the lab with the inventors, correct?
` A. Yes.
` MR. WILCOX: Object to form.
`BY MS. BHATTACHARYYA:
` Q. So what was your operational
`role as Enzo was taking off in the
`mid-1970s?
` A. As I commented, my role was one
`of structural strategic evaluation
`management, financial oversight, policy,
`translation to the public community of
`novel concepts.
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` We build a public corporation
`and all the components that go within
`that, that have required the translational
`exercise of turning science into simple
`language. Simple understanding basically
`fell within my domain, but not exclusively
`within my domain.
` Q. Okay. So I have previously
`handed you your two declarations for the
`two different IPR proceedings. Is it okay
`if I just refer to them as the 820 case
`and the 822 case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you agree that the two
`declarations are identical in content
`except for the case captions and the
`exhibits that you have referred to?
` A. I believe
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