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Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` 1
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` 2
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` 3
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` 4 APPLE INC., MICROSOFT CORP,)
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` 5 MICROSOFT MOBILE OY, AND ) IPR 2016-00758
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` 6 MICROSOFT MOBILE INC.,
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` 7
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`Petitioners,
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` 8 v.
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`)
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`)
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`)
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` 9 EVOLVED WIRELESS, LLC,
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`) Patent 8,218,481
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` 10
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`Patent Owner.
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`)
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` 11 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
`
`DEPOSITION OF
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`JONATHAN WELLS, PH.D., M.B.A.
`
`April 20, 2017
`8:58 a.m.
`
`Fish & Richardson
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`1425 K Street, Northwest
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`Washington, D.C. 20005
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` 23 Reported by: Lori J. Goodin, RPR, CLR, CRR,
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` 24
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` 25
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`Realtime Systems Administrator
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
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`Page 1
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`Evolved Wireless, LLC Exhibit 2002
`ZTE/HTC v. Evolved Wireless
`IPR2016-00758
`
`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
` 2
`
` 3 For the Patent Owner Evolved Wireless, LLC:
`
` 4 MILES A. FINN, PH.D., ESQUIRE
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` 5 ROBINS KAPLAN LLP
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` 6 399 Park Avenue, Suite 3600
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` 7 New York, New York 10022
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` 8 212-980-7400
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` 9 mfinn@robinskaplan.com
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` 10
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` 11 For the Petitioner ZTE USA:
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` 12 HERSH MEHTA, ESQUIRE
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` 13 (VIA TELEPHONE)
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` 14 MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY
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` 15 444 West Lake Street
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` 16 Chicago, Illinois 60606
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` 17 312-984-7682
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` 18 hmehta@mwe.com
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`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL (CONTINUED)
`
` 2
`
` 3 For the Petitioners Apple and Microsoft:
`
`INDRANIL MUKERJI, ESQUIRE
`
`DAVID HOLT, ESQUIRE
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`FISH & RICHARDSON
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`11th Floor
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`1425 K Street, Northwest
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`Washington, D.C. 20005
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`202-626-7762
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`mukerji@fr.com
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`holt2@fr.com
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`-and-
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`BAILE XIE, ESQUIRE
`
`(VIA TELEPHONE)
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`FISH & RICHARDSON
`
`1717 Main Street, Suite 5000
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`Dallas, Texas 75201
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`214-760-6139
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`xie@fr.com
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`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION
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` 2
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` 3 WITNESS: JONATHAN WELLS, PH.D., M.B.A.
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` 4 EXAMINATION PAGE
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` 5 By Mr. Finn 5
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` 6
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` 7
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` 8
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` 9 INDEX OF EXHIBITS
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` 10 Wells
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` 11 Exhibits Page
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` 12 Exhibit 1 Declaration of
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` 13 Dr. Jonathan Wells 9
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` 14 Exhibit 2 portion of IEEE Standard
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` 15 802.16-2004 11
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` 16
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` 17
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` 18
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` 19 (Original Exhibits included with the
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` 20 original transcript.)
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`Depo International, Inc.
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 DEPOSITION OF JONATHAN WELLS, PH.D., M.B.A.
`
` 2 April 20, 2016
`
` 3
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` 4 JONATHAN WELLS, PH.D., M.B.A.,
`
` 5 having been duly sworn, testified as follows:
`
` 6 MR. FINN: Good morning, Dr. Wells.
`
` 7 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
`
` 8 MR. MUKERJI: Mr. Finn, I'm sorry.
`
` 9 We should probably do appearances, because I
`
` 10 don't know who is coming and who is not.
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` 11 MR. FINN: Sure. So, I am Miles
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` 12 Finn. I represent Evolved Wireless in these
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` 13 matters we are talking about. And I work
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` 14 with Robins Kaplan.
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` 15 MR. MUKERJI: Indranil Mukerji,
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` 16 David Holt, and, by phone, Baile Xie, of Fish
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` 17 & Richardson, representing Apple and
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` 18 Microsoft.
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` 19 EXAMINATION
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` 20 BY MR. FINN:
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` 21 Q. Okay. So, this is Dr. Wells; is
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` 22 that right?
`
` 23 A. Yes, that's right. Thank you.
`
` 24 Q. Okay. Now, you have been deposed
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` 25 before?
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 A. Yes, I have.
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` 2 Q. Okay. So I'm just going to repeat
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` 3 some of the basic rules to make sure that you and
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` 4 I are on the same wavelength.
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` 5 A. Okay.
`
` 6 Q. I think we will be. I will ask a
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` 7 question, and because we have a reporter writing
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` 8 down what I say, and what you say, it is
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` 9 important that you not speak over my question.
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` 10 And it is also difficult for me. And I will try
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` 11 not to speak over your answer, interrupt your
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` 12 answer. Okay?
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` 13 A. Yes, I understand.
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` 14 Q. Okay.
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` 15 MR. MUKERJI: Mr. Finn, before your
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` 16 next question.
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` 17 Did someone just join by phone?
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` 18 MR. MEHTA: Yes. Good morning, this
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` 19 is Hersh Mehta from McDermott Will & Emery,
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` 20 for petitioner ZTE USA.
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` 21 MR. MUKERJI: Good morning,
`
` 22 Mr. Mehta. We started the deposition with
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` 23 just some preliminaries, but we are getting
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` 24 underway here.
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` 25 BY MR. FINN:
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 Q. Now, I'm going to assume that you
`
` 2 understand my questions if you give me an answer.
`
` 3 And so, if you don't understand my
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` 4 question, please feel free to tell me. Okay?
`
` 5 A. Yes, I will.
`
` 6 Q. And as you know, it is important
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` 7 that you answer with a verbal response rather
`
` 8 than a head shake, because the reporter can't
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` 9 write down the head shake.
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` 10 A. I understand.
`
` 11 Q. Okay. Now your attorney here may
`
` 12 object to some of my questions. He may raise an
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` 13 objection, and that is okay.
`
` 14 And he may tell you not to answer
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` 15 the question. And that is okay, too.
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` 16 But, if he doesn't instruct you not
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` 17 to answer the question, then you need to answer
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` 18 the question the best you can.
`
` 19 Do you understand that?
`
` 20 A. Yes, I do.
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` 21 Q. Okay. Now, we will take some breaks
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` 22 in this deposition. We will also take a break
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` 23 between --
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` 24 MS. XIE: This is Baile with Fish.
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` 25 MR. FINN: Hello, so I'm going to
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 continue -- this is Miles Finn. I'm going to
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` 2 continue the questions now.
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` 3 MR. MUKERJI: Baile, the deposition
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` 4 is underway.
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` 5 MS. XIE: Okay, cool. May I ask is
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` 6 this '481 or the '236 patent?
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` 7 MR. MUKERJI: Mr. Finn and I
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` 8 conferred before the start, and I understand
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` 9 that we are starting with the '481.
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` 10 MS. XIE: Okay. Great. Thanks.
`
` 11 MR. FINN: So, thanks. So, that is
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` 12 fine.
`
` 13 So, can we do something to minimize
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` 14 the interruptions for the speakers?
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` 15 MR. MUKERJI: I think all of the
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` 16 Fish people are here and Mr. Mehta is here.
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` 17 I'm not aware of anyone else joining.
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` 18 Mr. Holt, Ms. Xie, is that true?
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` 19 MS. XIE: Yes, I think that is all
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` 20 the people.
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` 21 MR. FINN: Okay. So just to
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` 22 minimize background noise, can I ask the
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` 23 people on the telephone line to put their
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` 24 phones on mute. Thank you very much.
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` 25 BY MR. FINN:
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`Depo International, Inc.
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 Q. Okay. So, as I was saying before I
`
` 2 was interrupted, we will take some breaks. We
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` 3 can take a break at any time. The only time you
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` 4 can't take a break is if I've asked a question
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` 5 and you haven't answered yet. Does that make
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` 6 sense?
`
` 7 A. Okay.
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` 8 Q. Okay, thanks. So, now we are going
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` 9 to be talking about the '481 patent. You know
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` 10 what we are talking about?
`
` 11 A. Yes, I do.
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` 12 Q. Okay. And, you've given an expert
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` 13 report in this matter for this patent; is that
`
` 14 right?
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` 15 MR. MUKERJI: Objection, form.
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` 16 THE WITNESS: I provided a
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` 17 declaration, yes.
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` 18 BY MR. FINN:
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` 19 Q. A declaration. Okay. Now, I'm
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` 20 going to hand you this. We are going to mark
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` 21 this as Exhibit 1.
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` 22 (Wells Exhibit Number 1
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` 23 marked for identification.)
`
` 24 BY MR. FINN:
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` 25 Q. So, do you recognize Wells
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 Exhibit 1?
`
` 2 A. Yes, I do.
`
` 3 Q. Okay. And this is your declaration
`
` 4 in this matter; is that right?
`
` 5 A. This is the declaration, without the
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` 6 appendices, yes.
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` 7 Q. Okay. Now, I would like you to
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` 8 turn, please, to Page 62. It is marked on the
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` 9 bottom of the page, Paragraph 124.
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` 10 A. Yes, I'm there.
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` 11 Q. Okay. Thanks.
`
` 12 Now, I would just like to ask you a
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` 13 few questions about the sequence here.
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` 14 At the top of the page there is
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` 15 something which I'm going to call PALL. Does that
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` 16 make sense if we call the sequence PALL?
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` 17 A. Yes.
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` 18 Q. Is that how you would say it?
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` 19 A. Yes.
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` 20 Q. And what is PALL?
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` 21 A. So, as I explained in my
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` 22 declaration, the PALL at the top of Page 62, it is
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` 23 a sequence, which is from the IEEE 802.16-2004
`
` 24 specification.
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` 25 Q. Okay. And what is a sequence?
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 A. A sequence is a set of identities in
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` 2 a particular order.
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` 3 Q. Okay. Now, and a minute ago you
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` 4 referred to an IEEE standard. Let me hand you
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` 5 Exhibit 2.
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` 6 (Wells Exhibit Number 2
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` 7 marked for identification.)
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` 8 BY MR. FINN:
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` 9 Q. Is this the standard, sir, to which
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` 10 you were referring?
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` 11 And let me rephrase my presentation
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` 12 of Exhibit 2. Exhibit 2, I believe, is a portion
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` 13 of the petition as Exhibit 1054. Okay, I'm not
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` 14 representing to you that it is the entire
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` 15 exhibit.
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` 16 A. Okay. It is certainly a portion.
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` 17 I'm not sure what the Exhibit Number is. The
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` 18 petition number there. Yes, I understand. This
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` 19 is a portion of 802 -- what we call 802.16.
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` 20 Q. 802.16, okay. And does this contain
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` 21 the, is the part where PALL in your declaration is
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` 22 found?
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` 23 A. Yes, it does.
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` 24 Q. And am I right that that is on
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` 25 Page 447, shown in the original document?
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 A. Correct.
`
` 2 Q. Okay. Now, as I understand it,
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` 3 there are certain types of sequences involved in
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` 4 the '481 patent called, I may mispronounce this
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` 5 as CAZAC sequences; is that right?
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` 6 A. That is how I pronounce it.
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` 7 Q. So, that is capital letters
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` 8 C-A-Z-A-C. Now, CA stands for constant
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` 9 amplitude, is that right?
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` 10 A. Correct.
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` 11 Q. And I'd like to understand what
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` 12 constant amplitude means in a second, but before
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` 13 we get there, let's do the ZAC, the last part.
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` 14 ZAC stands for zero autocorrelation,
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` 15 correct?
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` 16 A. Correct.
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` 17 Q. And I would like to understand that,
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` 18 too.
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` 19 But, let's do the CA part, first,
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` 20 because it comes first, and I think it is easier.
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` 21 What does CA mean?
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` 22 A. CA stands for constant amplitude --
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` 23 Q. Okay.
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` 24 A. -- which means that the sequence
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` 25 itself, the numbers in the sequence, have a
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 similar amplitude. An amplitude that doesn't
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` 2 change, meaning their size is constant.
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` 3 Q. Okay. So, for PALL that we have been
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` 4 talking about from your declaration, could a
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` 5 person compute the amplitude for that sequence?
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` 6 A. Yes. They could.
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` 7 Q. And how would you, how would a
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` 8 person do that?
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` 9 A. So, a person would look at the
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` 10 individual elements within the sequence, and they
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` 11 would find out the amplitude of them, and they
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` 12 would show that it doesn't change across the
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` 13 elements.
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` 14 Q. Okay. So, looking at the first
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` 15 element of PALL, that is I minus J; is that
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` 16 correct?
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` 17 A. Yes.
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` 18 Q. And J means the square root of -1;
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` 19 is that right?
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` 20 A. Correct.
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` 21 Q. Okay. So, what is the amplitude of
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` 22 I minus J?
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` 23 A. So, there is two parts to that, that
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` 24 element. There is what we call the real part,
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` 25 which in this case is 1. And then there is the
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 imaginary part which is -J. The size of the real
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` 2 part is 1. The size of the imaginary part is 1,
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` 3 as well.
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` 4 So, the amplitude of this would
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` 5 be -- it doesn't really matter what the amplitude
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` 6 is as long as it doesn't change.
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` 7 But, in this particular instance,
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` 8 the amplitude would be the square root of 2.
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` 9 Q. Square root of 2.
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` 10 And if I just go back to understand
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` 11 the math that you did so quickly there. When you
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` 12 said that the size of the imaginary component
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` 13 was 1, you got that by taking J and squaring it;
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` 14 is that true?
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` 15 A. No.
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` 16 Q. How did you get that size?
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` 17 A. Because it is, the J is the
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` 18 imaginary part. So, the J represents that it is
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` 19 the imaginary component.
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` 20 But, the size of that J is, it is 1
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` 21 times J. It is just that we don't write that 1.
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` 22 Q. Okay.
`
` 23 A. So, if you were to imagine this is a
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` 24 vector with two axes, a real axis and an
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` 25 imaginary axis. This would be an amplitude of 1
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 along the real axis, an amplitude of 1 along the
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` 2 imaginary axis, in the negative direction.
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` 3 So, you have two vectors of
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` 4 amplitude 1. The combination of those is
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` 5 1 squared, plus 1 squared, and then the square
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` 6 root of the total, which is the square root of 2.
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` 7 Q. So, you are using the Pythagorean
`
` 8 theorem in a sense?
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` 9 A. Yes.
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` 10 Q. Okay. So, looking at PALL, can you
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` 11 say that that is a constant amplitude sequence?
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` 12 A. You can, because every single
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` 13 element there has the same amplitude, with the
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` 14 exception of the 0 right in the middle, which is
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` 15 the DC term.
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` 16 Q. Okay. Now let's move on to ZAC,
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` 17 Z-A-C. Okay?
`
` 18 You said that stands for zero
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` 19 autocorrelation, correct?
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` 20 A. Correct.
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` 21 Q. Okay. What does autocorrelation
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` 22 mean?
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` 23 A. So, I've explained this at a high
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` 24 level earlier in my report. If you can go to
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` 25 Paragraph 54, for example.
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 I talk about autocorrelation. And
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` 2 rather than read that, autocorrelation is really
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` 3 how well correlated a signal is with itself when
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` 4 it is delayed in time.
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` 5 Q. Okay. And given PALL, could a person
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` 6 compute the autocorrelation of PALL for different
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` 7 delays?
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` 8 A. It, a person could, yes, it can be
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` 9 done.
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` 10 Q. Okay. And could you just explain
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` 11 how that would be done?
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` 12 A. That is not something that I've
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` 13 opined at, that this series is necessarily a zero
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` 14 autocorrelation function.
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` 15 But, it could be done by showing
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` 16 how, by taking this sequence, taking a delayed
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` 17 version of this sequence, and seeing how well
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` 18 correlated those two signals would be, or those
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` 19 two sequences would be.
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` 20 Q. Okay. So, let me understand that
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` 21 question. You said it would involve, "seeing how
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` 22 well correlated those two signals would be."
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` 23 What does that mean?
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` 24 A. I think actually I modified it. I
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` 25 think I changed signals to sequences.
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`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 But, what it means is that you take
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` 2 the sequence. You then take a delayed version of
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` 3 that sequence. You compare the two, to see
`
` 4 whether they are orthogonal to one another or
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` 5 not, meaning whether they, how much they have in
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` 6 common.
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` 7 Q. Can you express that mathematically,
`
` 8 sir?
`
` 9 MR. MUKERJI: Objection, outside the
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` 10 scope.
`
` 11 THE WITNESS: That is not something
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` 12 I put in my report. I didn't figure it was
`
` 13 necessary to go to that level of complexity
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` 14 to explain this patent.
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` 15 It can be done mathematically. I
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` 16 don't know what that is off the top of my
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` 17 head.
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` 18 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 19 Q. How would you find out what it is?
`
` 20 MR. MUKERJI: Objection, outside the
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` 21 scope.
`
` 22 THE WITNESS: I think I would go to
`
` 23 any textbook on signal processing and --
`
` 24 well, not any, but a reasonable textbook on
`
` 25 signal processing, and I would be able to
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 17
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 find that equation.
`
` 2 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 3 Q. Now, when you talked about having
`
` 4 the delayed sequence, and comparing that to the
`
` 5 original sequence, does, what does the delayed
`
` 6 mean?
`
` 7 A. Delayed means something that is,
`
` 8 comes in at a later period of time.
`
` 9 Q. Okay. So how would the beginning of
`
` 10 a delayed PALL look to us? What would some of the
`
` 11 first elements of the sequence be?
`
` 12 A. Well, it would be the same as the
`
` 13 first elements of the sequence would be the same
`
` 14 as this. It would just be at a later period of
`
` 15 time.
`
` 16 Q. Okay. So, let me see if I can
`
` 17 understand that. If we were comparing something
`
` 18 with a delay of 2, for example, in PALL, would
`
` 19 that mean we would be comparing the first element
`
` 20 of PALL with the third element of PALL?
`
` 21 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and
`
` 22 scope.
`
` 23 THE WITNESS: Well, delay of 2, I
`
` 24 don't really understand what you mean by
`
` 25 delay of 2.
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 18
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 I think what you are trying to
`
` 2 suggest is that if the delayed signal came in
`
` 3 equivalent to two elements later than the
`
` 4 first one, I think that is what you are
`
` 5 suggesting.
`
` 6 If that is the case, then what you
`
` 7 just said would be the correct way to analyze
`
` 8 this.
`
` 9 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 10 Q. Okay --
`
` 11 A. It would be to analyze the full
`
` 12 sequence against the same sequence but with it
`
` 13 shifted by two elements.
`
` 14 Q. Okay. So I don't want to tell you
`
` 15 what delay is, sir, because you know far better
`
` 16 than me.
`
` 17 So, is it meaningful to talk about
`
` 18 delay in terms of an integer, a delay of 1 or a
`
` 19 delay of 2, for example?
`
` 20 A. Well, delay is a period of time, so
`
` 21 it would be a period of time that would be
`
` 22 equivalent to that integer.
`
` 23 Q. Okay. So, when I asked the first
`
` 24 question in this sequence of questions, you said,
`
` 25 I think, and don't let me misquote you here. In
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 19
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 fact, I'm not even intending to misquote you.
`
` 2 You said something like you hadn't
`
` 3 opined whether or not PALL was a zero
`
` 4 autocorrelation sequence; is that right?
`
` 5 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
`
` 6 THE WITNESS: That is correct.
`
` 7 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 8 Q. So, it is not your testimony that
`
` 9 the sequence PALL is a zero autocorrelation
`
` 10 sequence; is that right?
`
` 11 MR. MUKERJI: Objection, form.
`
` 12 THE WITNESS: My testimony is not
`
` 13 that it is a zero autocorrelation sequence.
`
` 14 My testimony is that it is, the
`
` 15 802.16 specification doesn't specify as a
`
` 16 zero autocorrelation sequence.
`
` 17 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 18 Q. Okay. And a slightly different
`
` 19 question, but similar.
`
` 20 It is also not your testimony that
`
` 21 the sequence PALL, on Page 62 of your report, is a
`
` 22 CAZAC sequence; is that true?
`
` 23 A. Again, that is not quite what I
`
` 24 testified. I testified that it was constant
`
` 25 amplitude, and that the 802.16 specification
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 20
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 didn't specify as a zero autocorrelation
`
` 2 function. Therefore, 802.16 doesn't specify it
`
` 3 as a CAZAC sequence.
`
` 4 Q. Independent of whether 802.16
`
` 5 specifies PALL as a CAZAC sequence, was it the
`
` 6 testimony in your declaration that this is a
`
` 7 CAZAC sequence?
`
` 8 A. I did --
`
` 9 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
`
` 10 THE WITNESS: I didn't testify that
`
` 11 it was a CAZAC sequence, but I also didn't
`
` 12 testify that it wasn't a CAZAC sequence.
`
` 13 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 14 Q. Okay. Fair enough.
`
` 15 So, now I would like to switch the
`
` 16 topic of my question, if I may, to CAZAC
`
` 17 sequences in general, independent of PALL at the
`
` 18 moment. Okay?
`
` 19 A. Okay.
`
` 20 Q. Okay. Now, as I understand
`
` 21 sequences, a person, or a sequence can be, one
`
` 22 can -- let me rephrase this question. Sorry.
`
` 23 One can, for example, take every
`
` 24 fourth element of sequence and create a new
`
` 25 sequence. Is that true?
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 21
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 A. Yes, one could.
`
` 2 Q. Okay. Now, so the question is this:
`
` 3 If -- is it true, as a rule, that if one starts
`
` 4 with a first sequence, that sequence being a
`
` 5 CAZAC sequence, and then takes every fourth
`
` 6 element of that CAZAC sequence to create a new
`
` 7 sequence, will the new sequence be a CAZAC
`
` 8 sequence?
`
` 9 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and
`
` 10 scope.
`
` 11 THE WITNESS: That is something I've
`
` 12 not studied as part of this -- as part of
`
` 13 this matter.
`
` 14 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 15 Q. So, independent of studying this
`
` 16 patent on this matter, do you know the answer to
`
` 17 that question?
`
` 18 MR. MUKERJI: Same objections.
`
` 19 THE WITNESS: So, given that it
`
` 20 wasn't something that was relevant to the
`
` 21 analysis of this patent, it is not something
`
` 22 I've done.
`
` 23 But, I don't know the answer to that
`
` 24 off the top of my head.
`
` 25 BY MR. FINN:
`
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`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 Q. Okay. And, let me ask the same
`
` 2 question, if you started with a CAZAC sequence
`
` 3 and took every second element of the CAZAC
`
` 4 sequence, would the resulting sequence be CAZAC
`
` 5 or not, do you know?
`
` 6 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and
`
` 7 scope.
`
` 8 THE WITNESS: Again, that is not
`
` 9 something I studied as a part of this matter.
`
` 10 I didn't feel that was necessary for me to
`
` 11 determine that as part of the, analyzing this
`
` 12 patent.
`
` 13 But, I don't know the answer to that
`
` 14 off the top of my head.
`
` 15 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 16 Q. So now moving from CAZAC sequences,
`
` 17 back to PALL for a moment.
`
` 18 Did you express any opinion about
`
` 19 whether or not the sequence formed by extracting
`
` 20 every fourth element of PALL would be a CAZAC
`
` 21 sequence?
`
` 22 A. Well, my opinions are as laid out in
`
` 23 my report, but I don't believe I provided an
`
` 24 opinion on that.
`
` 25 Q. Okay. Thanks. Maybe let me go back
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 23
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 just briefly to the computing autocorrelations
`
` 2 for a moment.
`
` 3 You said, I think, that computing
`
` 4 autocorrelations involves considering a delay of
`
` 5 the sequence. Is that right?
`
` 6 A. Correct.
`
` 7 Q. Okay. Now, when a sequence is
`
` 8 delayed -- or, let me express this in a simple
`
` 9 way that I understand it. It may be completely
`
` 10 wrong for you.
`
` 11 I think if we have a sequence and we
`
` 12 delay it when we compare it to a first sequence,
`
` 13 we have kind of a mismatch at the beginning and
`
` 14 at the end, in that one sequence has moved to the
`
` 15 right where the previous sequence doesn't exist.
`
` 16 Does that make any sense to you?
`
` 17 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form.
`
` 18 THE WITNESS: I understand what you
`
` 19 are saying, yes.
`
` 20 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 21 Q. Okay. So, in doing the
`
` 22 autocorrelation, what do you do with those cells
`
` 23 at the end and at the beginning that don't
`
` 24 overlap?
`
` 25 A. I think I would have to go back to
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
`
`Page 24
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 the formula to see how it dealt with those.
`
` 2 Q. Does the person of ordinary skill in
`
` 3 the art understand that there is only one way to
`
` 4 handle that case, or is there more than one way
`
` 5 to handle that case?
`
` 6 MR. MUKERJI: Objection, form.
`
` 7 THE WITNESS: Again, you are asking
`
` 8 me about computing autocorrelation, which I
`
` 9 didn't perform as part of this report.
`
` 10 I would have to go back to the
`
` 11 textbook that I referenced earlier and look
`
` 12 at the equation, to see whether there was
`
` 13 just a single way of doing it or multiple
`
` 14 ways of doing it.
`
` 15 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 16 Q. And, what textbook, sir, was it that
`
` 17 you referenced?
`
` 18 Can you point that out?
`
` 19 A. I didn't point to a specific one,
`
` 20 but I believe my testimony was any reasonably
`
` 21 good textbook on signal processing, I think,
`
` 22 would explain about how to, the mathematical
`
` 23 formulas for computing autocorrelation.
`
` 24 Q. And could you identify one textbook
`
` 25 now as you sit here now?
`
`Depo International, Inc.
`(763) 591-0535 or (800) 591-9722 | info@depointernational.com
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`

`

`Jonathan Wells, Ph.D., M.B.A. - 4/20/2017
`Apple Inc., et al. vs. Evolved Wireless, LLC
`
` 1 A. No, I couldn't. I have a number of
`
` 2 textbooks in my library at home, in my office,
`
` 3 but I can't name them.
`
` 4 Q. Can you give any kind of
`
` 5 identification of all of them by, for example, an
`
` 6 author's name?
`
` 7 MR. MUKERJI: Objection to form and
`
` 8 scope.
`
` 9 THE WITNESS: So, again. I didn't,
`
` 10 I wasn't asked to reference my signal
`
` 11 processing books as part of this study.
`
` 12 But, I do have a number of them in
`
` 13 my library at home. I can't think of the
`
` 14 names of the authors. I don't really recall
`
` 15 who the authors of these books are.
`
` 16 BY MR. FINN:
`
` 17 Q. Okay. Fair enough, sir. Thank you.
`
` 18 MR. FINN: Well, I think if it is
`
` 19 okay with you and counsel, I might take a
`
` 20 break at this point. I'm going to consider
`
` 21 my questions and answers, and then likely
`
` 22 give the witness to you, sir, for redirect.
`
` 23 And then end th

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