IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPROVAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - x
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`APPLE, INCORPORATED, :
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` Petitioner, :
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`v. : CASE No's. IPR2016-00754
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`PERSONALIZED MEDIA : And IPR2016-00755
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`COMMUNICATIONS, LLC, :
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` Patent owner. :
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` Videotaped Deposition of ALFRED WEAVER, PH.D.
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` Washington, D.C.
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` Friday, February 24, 2017
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` 9:02 a.m.
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`Reported by: Cassandra E. Ellis, RPR
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`Job No.: 18149
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 1
`
`

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`Page 2
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`Page 4
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` C O N T E N T S
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`EXAMINATION OF ALFRED WEAVER, PH.D. PAGE
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` By Mr. Sernel 7
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` By Ms. Albert 177
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` E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to the Transcript)
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`ALFRED WEAVER, PH.D. Deposition Exhibit PAGE
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`Previously Marked
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`Apple Exhibit-1003-1 US Patent No. 8,191,091 20
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`Apple Exhibit-1003-2 US Patent No. 8,559,635 43
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`Apple Exhibit 1004 US Patent No. 4,613,901 63
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`Apple Exhibit-1005 US Patent No. 4,736,422 162
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`Apple Exhibit-1006 US Patent No. 4,337,483 112
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`Apple Exhibit-1008 US Patent No. 4,388,643 143
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`Apple Exhibit 1021 VIDEOTEX the new 107
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` Deposition of ALFRED WEAVER, PH.D., held at
`the offices of Kirkland & Ellis LLP, 655 15th Street
`Northwest, Suite 1200, Washington, D.C. 20005,
`pursuant to agreement, before Cassandra E. Ellis,
`Certified Court Reporter - WA, Certified Shorthand
`Reporter - HI, Registered Professional Reporter,
`Certified Livenote Reporter, Realtime Systems
`Administrator and Notary Public of The District of
`Columbia.
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` Television-telephone information services
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`Apple Exhibit 1022 New Ancillary Services 101
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` Using a Television Channel By Bernard Marti
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` Paper No 14 Decision Institution of Inter
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` Partes Review 37 C.F.R. § 42.108
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`Page 5
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` E X H I B I T S C O N T I N U E D
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` (Attached to the Transcript)
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`ALFRED WEAVER, PH.D. Deposition Exhibit PAGE
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`Previously Marked
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`PMC Exhibit 2019 Declaration of Alfred Weaver, 94
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` PH.D. Pursuant to 37 C.F.R. § 1.68
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`PMC Exhibit 2022 Declaration of Alfred C. 11
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` Weaver, PH.D., In Support of Patent Owner's
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` Response
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER APPLE:
` MARC SERNEL, ESQUIRE
` KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP
` 601 Lexington Avenue
` New York, New York 10022
` (212) 446-4663
` marc.sernel@kirkland.com
`
` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER PMC:
` JENNIFER ALBERT, ESQUIRE
` CHARLES COX, ESQUIRE
` GOODWIN PROCTER LLP
` 901 New York Avenue, Northwest
` Washington, D.C. 20001
` (202) 346-4059
` Jalbert@goodwinlaw.com
` Ccox@goodwinlaw.com
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` ALSO PRESENT: Joseph E. Ellis, CLVS
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 2
`
`

`

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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good
` morning. This is the beginning of
` disc number one in the deposition
` of Dr. Alfred Weaver, taken in the
` matter of Apple, Incorporated
` versus Personalized Media
` Communications, LLC, with a Case
` Numbers IPR2016-00754 and
` IPR2016-00755 -- 5, held in the
` United States Patent and Trademark
` Office Before the Patent and Trial
` and Appeal Board.
` Today's date is February
` 24th, 2017, and the time on the
` monitor is 9:02 a.m. My name --
` my name is Joseph Ellis, I am the
` certified legal videographer, the
` court reporter is Cassandra Ellis,
` and we are here with Transperfect
` Legal Solutions.
` If counsel would please
`
`Page 7
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` introduce yourselves, and whom you
` represent, after which the court
` reporter will swear in the
` witness, and then you may proceed.
` MR. SERNEL: My name is Marc
` Sernel, I'm with the law firm of
` Kirkland and Ellis, and I
` represent the petitioner, Apple,
` Incorporated.
` MS. ALBERT: Jennifer
` Albert, for the patent owner,
` Personalized Media Communications,
` and with me today is my colleague,
` Charles Cox. I also -- I'm sorry,
` I also represent the witness
` today.
` ALFRED WEAVER
` having been sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. SERNEL:
` Q Good morning, Dr. Weaver.
` A Good morning, Mr. Sernel.
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` Q Just to get a -- a clean
` record, can you please state your full
` name for the record?
` A Alfred Charles Weaver.
` Q And I don't know if its changed
` since we last spoke, but could you state
` your current home address?
` A That's 1400 Ballard Woods
` Court, Charlottesville, Virginia 22901.
` Q And who is your current
` employer?
` A That's the University of
` Virginia.
` Q Now, I usually ask a question
` about whether you've been deposed before,
` and how many times, but I think I know
` the answers to those questions. So given
` that you've been deposed before, I just
` want to remind you of sort of the rules
` that I expect will govern our proceeding
` today.
` First of all, its important
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`Page 9
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` that you understand each of my question,
` if for some reason you don't understand a
` question or part of a question you need
` to tell me that so that I can clarify the
` question so that you can and do
` understand it, will you agree to tell me
` if you don't understand a question or
` part of a question?
` A Yes, I will.
` Q It's also important that you
` hear each of my questions and every part
` of a question. If for some reason you
` don't think you've heard a question or
` part of a question you need to tell me
` that so that I can repeat the question so
` that you do hear it fully.
` Will you agree to tell me if
` you don't hear a question or part of a
` question?
` A Yes, I will.
` Q It's also important that we get
` a complete record and I get your complete
`
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 3
`
`

`

`Page 10
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`Page 12
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` answers. I don't want to cut off any of
` your answers. I want to allow you to
` finish your answers. And so if I ever
` cut off or prevent you from finishing an
` answer you need to tell me that so that I
` can allow you to finish an answer and
` give me a complete answer.
` So will you agree to tell me if
` I ever cut off or prevent you from
` finishing an answer?
` A Yes, I will.
` Q Is there any medication or
` illness that would prevent you from
` testifying truthfully and accurately here
` today?
` A No.
` Q So, you have an understanding,
` sir, that we are here today in a
` deposition regarding declarations that
` you have prepared and submitted for two
` IPR proceedings; is that your
` understanding?
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`Page 11
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` A Yes, it is.
` Q And one of the IPR proceedings
` is IPR2016-00754, which relates to the
` `635 patent; is that correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And then the other one is
` IPR2016-00755, for the `091 patent;
` correct?
` A Correct.
` (Previously marked Exhibit
` No. 2022 was identified for the
` record.)
`BY MR. SERNEL:
` Q Okay. So let's just dive right
` in here. I'm going to mark as the first
` in order -- or actually, I'm going to
` show you what is marked PMC Exhibit 2022
` in the 755 IPR proceeding relating to the
` `091, which I believe is the declaration
` of yourself in support of patent owner's
` response.
` So the first question is, is
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` Exhibit 2022 from the 755 IPR proceeding
` a declaration that you prepared and
` executed and signed on December 16th,
` 2016?
` A Yes, it is.
` Q And is it correct this contains
` all the opinions that you had with
` respect to the challenged claims of the
` `091 patent as of December 16, 2016?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A There were -- there was a
` previous declaration, that contained my
` opinions, and this is the most recent
` version of declaration in support of the
` patent owner.
` Q And given that it's the most
` recent declaration in support of the
` patent owner for the `091 patent is it
` fair that I conclude that this contains
` your most recent opinions regarding the
` `091 challenged claims?
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`Page 13
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` A Yes.
` Q Have you formed any new or
` different opinions regarding the
` challenged claims of the `091 patent that
` are not contained in Exhibit 2022?
` A No. My opinions are -- are
` contained in this document.
` Q Okay. If you could turn to
` page two, actually, sorry, page six,
` we're going to use the pagination in the
` bottom right, so it's page six of Exhibit
` 2022 in the 755 IPR proceeding. I'm
` looking at paragraph five, at the top of
` that page, and you reference being a
` principal investigator for something
` called Secure E-Commerce, a Modular
` Course Supported By Virtual Laboratories;
` do you see that?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And when did you receive that
` funding?
` A The dates are in my CV, if --
`
`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 4
`
`

`

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` if you would hand me that, I would have
` a -- look it up and tell you.
` Q I don't know that I have a copy
` of your CV. Do you have a good estimate
` as to when you would have done that work?
` A It would have been in the
` decade of the 2000s.
` Q Closer to early 2000 or --
` or -- or 2000, or is it like a 2010 type
` of thing?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A Well, again, it's -- it's --
` it's all clearly laid out in the CV.
` Just by recollection, middle 2000.
` Q Okay. And can you describe for
` me what work was done pursuant to this
` research project?
` A Sure. I've been teaching the
` electronic commerce course at the
` University of Virginia since 1995. And I
` thought that I might be able to do a good
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`Page 15
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` job of providing information to my
` students if they were to have problems
` that they could work on outside of
` lecture time.
` So I wrote a proposal to the
` National Science Foundation proposing
` to create a course, it would be a
` traditional lecture course, but
` supplemented by virtual laboratories.
` And the virtual laboratories were
` programming exercises that entail
` programmatic operations relevant to
` electronic commerce.
` Q Okay. You said you've taught a
` course at the University of Virginia in
` e-commerce since 1995?
` A That's right.
` Q Was there an e-commerce course
` at the University of Virginia, prior to
` 1995, that somebody else taught or was
` that the first one you're aware of?
` A To the best of my knowledge,
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` that was the first one at the University.
` Q Do you believe you were one of
` the first people to teach an e-commerce
` course anywhere starting in 1995?
` A I would have been one of the
` early instructors, because electronic
` commerce, itself, was new.
` Q When do you think electronic
` commerce became a thing?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A The type of electronic commerce
` that -- that I deal with in my course is
` the buying and selling of products and
` services over the internet. And, in
` particular, we focus on operations that
` are web-enabled. So electronic commerce
` that is web-enabled is, in the United
` States, is about a 1993 phenomena.
` Q Before 1993 there was no such
` thing as web-enabled commerce?
` A The -- by -- by web-enabled I
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`Page 17
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` mean using a web browser and a web
` server. And by e-commerce I'm talking
` about buying and selling products and
` services. So while commerce had been
` conducted electronically for many years.
` I'm talking about the content of my
` course and my course was predicated on
` the public availability of web browsers
` and servers.
` Q And the public availability of
` web browsers and servers is a
` approximately 1993 phenomenon?
` A That's right, they -- at least
` in -- at least in the United States. The
` public availability of the Netscape
` browser, in 1993, marked a -- an
` important time for e-commerce.
` Q Got it. If you could turn to
` page nine of Exhibit 2022, in the 755
` IPR, you list here a series of materials
` reviewed and relied upon in a chart there
` in paragraph 16; do you see that?
`
`5 (Pages 14 to 17)
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 5
`
`

`

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` A Not on page nine.
` Q It carries over to page 10.
` I'm sorry, I think -- so I'm talking,
` again, about the pagination in the
` corner?
` A Oh, yes.
` Q I'll continue to try to remind
` us all of that, because I was about to
` use different pages, too. So --
` A Okay. Now --
` Q Right.
` A So using page numbers in the --
` Q Bottom right?
` A -- bottom right corner, that
` page nine, yes.
` Q Yes. So you see there you've
` got your chart, it carries over to page
` 10, these were the documents that you
` reviewed and relied upon in forming and
` offering your opinions in this
` declaration; is that correct?
` A That's correct.
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`Page 19
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` Q And then there's a -- a -- a
` catchall at the end, all other documents
` cited and used in my declaration; do you
` see that?
` A I do.
` Q Beyond what's listed here, is
` it fair to say that you relied on no
` other documents in forming your opinions
` contained in Exhibit 2022?
` A Yes, as listed in -- in the
` table in paragraph 16.
` Q Okay. If we could turn to page
` 17, using the bottom right corner,
` pagination of Exhibit 2022, you state in
` paragraph 37, it says: "The `091 patent
` describes the creation and delivery of
` content in a novel manner that provides
` protected, personalized, interactive,
` and/or combined media programming"; do
` you see that?
` A I do.
` Q And when you're referring to
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` content, is that essentially a synonym
` for the term "programming" that's used in
` the `091 patent?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` A If -- if you want to show me
` the `091 patent, I'll take a look.
` (Previously marked Exhibit
` No. 1003-1 was identified for the
` record.)
`BY MR. SERNEL:
` Q I'm going to hand you what's
` been marked Apple Exhibit 1003, which is
` US patent number 8,191,091.
` MS. ALBERT: Thank you.
` A So the delivery of content is
` referring specifically to the protected,
` personalized, interactive, and/or
` combined media programming described in
` the `091, and the `091 also describes
` that with the term programming.
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` Q And so your understanding that
` in the context of the `091 patent the
` terms content and programming are
` essentially used interchangeably; is that
` fair?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A I think content includes
` programming, but content would also
` include the control signals that are
` necessary for controlling the
` distribution of the programming and its
` delivery and -- and -- depending on which
` claim we're talking about, its
` decryption. So content also includes the
` control signals.
` Q Okay. So programming is a -- a
` term used in the `091 patent to refer to
` the substance of the transmission that's
` going to be viewed or read or listened
` to, to ente- -- entertain, instruct the
` receiver; is that --
`
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 6
`
`

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` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
`BY MR. SERNEL:
` Q -- fair?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
`BY MR. SERNEL:
` Q And just -- just -- I'm not
` trying to be tricky, here.
` Can you turn to page six -- or
` I'm sorry -- column six of the `091
` patent, if you look at the summary of the
` invention which starts about line 19, or
` I'm sorry, 29, and then at line 31, the
` term programming there is defined; do you
` see that?
` A I do.
` Q So it says: "The term
` programming, referring to everything that
` is transmitted electronically to
` entertain, instruct, or inform, including
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` television, radio, broadcast, print, and
` computer programming, I think it's as
` well as combined media programming"; did
` you see that definition?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And so then your understanding
` of the term content, as it's used in the
` `091 patent, and your declaration, is
` that content would include everything
` that's described there as programming
` plus potentially the control signals that
` would be associated with that
` programming; is that fair?
` A Yes, that's -- that's fair.
` The content includes the -- the
` programming and the control signals that
` are needed to distribute and -- and
` decrypt the programming.
` Q Would you agree with me that
` content can be just the programming
` without the control signals?
` MS. ALBERT: And object to
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` A I believe that the -- the
` content may or may not include control
` signals.
` Q Okay. If we could turn to page
` 18 of Exhibit 2022, please. You offer
` some opinions with respect to how the
` claims of the `091 patent should be
` construed; is that correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q And in providing your opinions
` on claim construction did you apply the
` standard of offering the broadest
` reasonable construction for each of the
` claim terms?
` A Yes, I did.
` Q For the term encrypted, "An
` encrypted digital information
` transmission including encrypted
` information," it's your opinion that that
` would require an information transmission
` that's entirely digital; is that correct?
`
`Page 25
`
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A Yes, that's correct.
` Q And you understand that the
` Board tentatively, at least, disagreed
` with your -- your view on that; is that
` correct?
` A If you'd like to point me to
` the Board's decision.
` Q So this is paper number 14, in
` IPR2016-00755, this is the institution
` decision dated September 20, 2016. I can
` direct you to page 12 of the Board
` decision paper number 14, if it helps?
` A Thank you.
` Q Near the bottom is the
` conclusion, right before it gets to that
` section two. So the pending question is:
` You'd agree with me that at least
` preliminarily the Board disagreed with
` your proposed construction for encrypted
` digital information transmission,
`
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
`
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`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 7
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` including encrypted information that it
` would require to be, you know, entirely
` or wholly digital?
` A So as I have read the Board's
` decision, and as you pointed me to it on
` page 12, the final paragraph of
` subsection one, "Accordingly, on this
` preliminary record, an encrypted digital
` information transmission, including
` encrypted information, includes at least
` some encrypted digital information and
` does not preclude with that transmission
` non-encrypted information or scrambled
` analog information."
` So I -- I believe that the --
` that the Board has misinterpreted the
` specification of the `091 because, as I
` read the specification, the whole genesis
` of the invention is how to distribute and
` protect digital information.
` So it's -- it's my opinion
` that the digital information
`
`Page 27
`
` transmission requires an all digital
` transmission, and -- and I would agree
` that it could be encrypted or
` partially encrypted because there --
` there is a -- that -- that exact
` phrase in the specification, itself,
` encrypted transmissions may be only
` partially encrypted.
` To the best of my knowledge,
` there is no such statement about
` digital transmissions may be only
` partial digital, only partially
` digital, I don't believe any such
` phrase appears in the specification.
` Q So it's your opinion that the
` `091 patent in its entirety relates only
` to, as you term, all digital information
` transmissions?
` A No, only for those claims that
` say all digital transmission.
` Q Okay. So you --
` A So on a claim by claim basis I
`
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` would be able to say yes or no to that
` question.
` Q Yes. So you would agree with
` me that in the `091 specification there
` is discussion of transmissions that would
` be a mixture of analog and digital
` information; correct?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A Yes, that is discussed.
` Q And so one needs to look at the
` claims themselves of the `091 patent to
` determine whether a particular claim
` requires an all digital transmission or
` whether it can require some digital
` information along with potentially analog
` information, as well; correct?
` MS. ALBERT: Object to the
` form.
` A Yeah, I think that the claims,
` themselves, specify what the transmission
` methodology is.
`
`Page 29
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` Q And for the claims that require
` an encrypted digital information
` transmission, in your view, that requires
` an all digital information transmission
` and precludes the additional inclusion of
` any analog information; correct?
` A That is correct.
` Q Any claim that -- that
` references an encrypted digital
` information transmission excludes
` transmissions that would be a mixture of
` digital information plus analog
` information; is that correct?
` A A claim term that says
` encrypted digital information
` transmission, if I remember -- well, let
` me not depend on memory, if you would ask
` that question again I'll answer it.
` Q Is it your opinion that any
` claim that requires an encrypted digital
` information transmissions excludes
` transmissions that would have a mixture
`
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
`
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`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 8
`
`

`

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` of digital information plus analog
` signals?
` A The encrypted digital
` information transmission, that part of
` the transmission would be encrypted and
` would be digital. So it may or may not
` be accompanied by something else.
` But the encrypted digital
` information transmission is both
` encrypted and is digital.
` Q So if I could just direct you
` on page 19 of your declaration, Exhibit
` 2022 -- actually, let's go to page 20,
` it's a -- sorry -- 19 -- the carryover
` sentence from 19 to 20, you say, here,
` "To a POSITA, digital means digital, one
` would not confusingly refer to a
` transmission with a mixture of both
` digital and analog signals simply as a
` digital information transmission without
` further clarification"; do you see that?
` A I do.
`
`Page 31
`
` Q And so if a transmission has a
` mixture of both digital and analog
` signals it's your opinion that such a
` transmission would not fall within the
` scope of claims requiring an encrypted
` digital information transmission; is that
` correct?
` A A -- a claim such as the `091
` claim 13 or 20, which says in its first
` limitation, receiving an encrypted
` digital information transmission system
` including encrypted information, requires
` that there be at least an information
` transmission that is encrypted and
` digital.
` There -- there would be no
` mixing of analog and digital in that
` encrypted digital information
` transmission.
` Q And when you refer to mixing of
` analog and digital information in the
` encrypted digital information
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` transmission what are you referring to?
` A I'm saying that an encrypted
` digital information transmission would
` not contain analog components.
` Q Is it -- is it your opinion
` that the term encrypted digital
` information transmission must carry
` entirely digital content?
` MS. ALBERT: Objection,
` asked and answered.
` A An information transmission
` that is described as encrypted and
` digital would be an all digital
` transmission.
` Q And if I send such a
` transmission that is all digital, in your
` words, with accompanying analog signals,
` would that satisfy these claims in the
` `091 patent that require an encrypted
` digital information transmission, in your
` opinion?
` A As long as the information
`
`Page 33
`
` transmission was encrypted and was
` digital it would satisfy the first
` element of claim 13 or 20.
` Q And my question is: If I send
` an information transmission that's
` encrypted and digital along with other
` information that may be analog, does that
` satisfy these claims of the `091 patent?
` MS. ALBERT: Objection,
` asked and answered.
` A I think we have to -- we have
` to ask -- ask and answer that question on
` a claim by claim basis. But for -- for
` claim 13 and the receiving step, the --
` the information transmission that is
` discussed here is -- is all digital.
` Q So for claim 13 of the `091
` patent, when it says receiving encrypted
` digital information transmission, that
` transmission must include entirely
` digital information and cannot include
` any analog signals; is that correct?
`
`9 (Pages 30 to 33)
`
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`
`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 9
`
`

`

`Page 34
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` A It -- whatever you're calling
` the information transmission in this
` claim would be both encrypted and would
` be digital.
` Q So that then begs the question
` of how do we determine what the
` information transmission is versus
` something else? Is that an arbitrary
` selection?
` A Was -- was that a question?
` Q That was a question.
` A Okay.
` Q So let me ask a cleaner
` question: In applying claim 13 to prior
` art or determining its scope, when you
` say the encrypted digital information
` transmission is whatever we're looking at
` as the information transmission, is that
` something that you can arbitrarily say,
` okay, that's -- that's what I'm going to
` look at as the information and then
` determine whether that's digital or
`
`Page 35
`
` analog or some combination of the two?
` A Okay. I think I understand
` your question better now. So the in- --
` the information transmission in --
` recited in the receiving limitation of
` claims 13 and 20 is talking about an all
` digital information transmission.
` Q So to fall within the scope of
` claims 13 and 20 of the `091 patent, in
` your view, the information transmission
` must consist exclusively of digital
` information and cannot include any analog
` signals; is that correct?
` MS. ALBERT: Objection,
` asked and answered.
` A It cannot include any analog
` signals; that's right.
` Q And so if I have an information
` transmission that includes digital
` information, plus some analog signals,
` that doesn't fall within the scope of
` claims 13 and 20 of the `091 patent;
`
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` correct?
` A There's a difference between
` analog information being included with an
` information transmission versus
` accompanying an information transmission,
` so with re- -- I'm saying that an
` information transmission that falls
` within the scope of claim 13 is all
` digital.
` Q If an encrypted -- strike that.
` If an information transmission
` includes digital information and then
` with that it also has analog information,
` in your opinion, does that potentially
` fall inside the scope of claims 13 and 20
` of the `091 patent?
` MS. ALBERT: Objection,
` asked and answered and vague.
` A If the analog information were
` to be included with the digital
` transmission, then -- excuse me.
` If the analog information were
`
`Page 37
`
` to be included with the information
` transmission, then it would not be all
` digital and then it would not fall within
` the scope of claim 13.
` Q And when you refer to
` information being included with another
` information transmission what do you mean
` by that?
` A Included means within.
` Q And when you say "within" does
` that mean that the analog information has
` to be embedded or interspersed with
` the -- the digital information
` transmission?
` A To -- to try to be clear, if
` there were analog information embedded
` with the digital information then that
` would not fall within the scope of claim
` 13.
` Q What if I have analog
` synchronization signals appended at the
` front of a digital information
`
`10 (Pages 34 to 37)
`
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`APPLE EXHIBIT 1054
`APPLE v. PMC
`IPR2016-00754
`Page 10
`
`

`

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` transmission, would that be an encrypted
` digital information transmission in your
` opinion and in the context of claims 13
` and 20 of the `091 patent?
` A The -- well, what is
` received -- to fall within the scope of
` claim 13, what is received must be an all
` digital information transmission.
` Q And so if I have analog
` synchronization