· · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·
`
`· · WHATSAPP INC. and FACEBOOK, INC.,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioners,
`· · vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·NO.: IPR2016-00718
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PATENT: 8,874,677 B2
`· · TRIPLAY, INC.,
`·
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`·
`· · _________________________________/
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`· · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF DAVID KLAUSNER
`
`· · · · · · · · · · Palo Alto, California
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·Friday, April 14, 2017
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`· · Reported By:
`
`· · LINDA VACCAREZZA, RPR, CLR, CRP, CSR. NO. 10201
`PATENT OWNER'S EXHIBIT 2010
`
`·
`
`1
`
`
`
`· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·
`
`· · WHATSAPP INC. and FACEBOOK, INC.,
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioners,
`· · vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·NO.: IPR2016-00718
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PATENT: 8,874,677 B2
`· · TRIPLAY, INC.,
`·
`· · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.
`·
`· · _________________________________/
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`· · · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF DAVID KLAUSNER
`
`· · · · · · · · · · Palo Alto, California
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·Friday, April 14, 2017
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`·
`
`· · Reported By:
`
`· · LINDA VACCAREZZA, RPR, CLR, CRP, CSR. NO. 10201
`PATENT OWNER'S EXHIBIT 2010
`
`·
`
`1
`
`
`
`·1
`
`·2
`
`·3
`
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·April 14, 2017
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:10 a.m.
`
`·6
`
`·7
`
`·8· · · ·Deposition of DAVID KLAUSNER, held at
`
`·9· Cooley, LLP, 3175 Hanover Street, Palo Alto,
`
`10· California, pursuant to Subpoena before Linda
`
`11· Vaccarezza, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the
`
`12· State of California.
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`2
`
`
`
`·1· A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`·2· FOR THE APPLICANT:
`
`·3· · · · · ·COOLEY, LLP
`
`·4· · · · · ·By:· Yuan Liang, Esq.
`
`·5· · · · · ·11951 Freedom Drive
`
`·6· · · · · ·Reston, Virginia 20190
`
`·7· · · · · ·yliang@cooley.com
`
`·8
`
`·9· FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
`
`10· · · · · ·GREENBERG TRAURIG LLP
`
`11· · · · · ·By:· Douglas Weider, Esq.
`
`12· · · · · ·500 Campus Road, Suite 400
`
`13· · · · · ·Florham Park, New Jersey 07932
`
`14· · · · · ·WeiderD@gtlaw.com
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`3
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
`
`·2· WITNESS:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`
`·3· · · · · ·DAVID KLAUSNER
`
`·4· EXAMINATION BY:
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. WEIDER· · · · · · · · · · · · · 5
`
`·6· · · · · ·MR. LIANG· · · · · · · · · · · · · · 86
`
`·7
`
`·8· · · · · ·PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS (Referred to, not attached)
`
`·9· Exhibit 1103
`
`10· · · · · ·Copy of the Coulombe Reference
`
`11· Exhibit 2103
`
`12· · · · · ·Copy of RFC 2543
`
`13· Exhibit 2104
`
`14· · · · · ·SIP Extensions for Instant Messaging
`
`15· Exhibit 1128
`
`16· · · · · ·Declaration of David Klausner
`
`17· Exhibit 2108
`
`18· · · · · ·Deposition Transcript of David Klausner
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`4
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · DAVID KLAUSNER,
`
`·2· · · · · ·Having been duly sworn, by the Certified
`
`·3· Shorthand Reporter, was examined and testified as
`
`·4· follows:
`
`·5· · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
`
`·6· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·Good morning, Mr. Klausner.
`
`·8· · · A.· ·Good morning.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·We have done this a couple of times, but just
`
`10· to go over a couple really basic ground rules.· As you
`
`11· know, I'll be asking you a series of questions; you'll
`
`12· be responding.· It's important that we make your
`
`13· responses verbal; the court reporter can't take down a
`
`14· nod or a shrug.
`
`15· · · · · ·Do you understand that?
`
`16· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`17· · · Q.· ·And I will try very hard to wait for you to
`
`18· finish your answer before I ask the next question; by
`
`19· the same token, I would appreciate you wait until I
`
`20· finish my question before you answer.
`
`21· · · · · ·Do you understand that?
`
`22· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·And if you don't understand one of my
`
`24· questions, please ask me to rephrase it.· If you don't
`
`25· ask me to rephrase it, I'll assume you understood the
`
`5
`
`
`
`·1· question.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Do you understand that?
`
`·3· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Any reason you can't give your best testimony
`
`·5· here today?
`
`·6· · · A.· ·No.
`
`·7· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Mr. Weider, just before we get
`
`·8· started, just I would like to have a standing
`
`·9· objection to the extent there are any questions about
`
`10· Mr. Klausner's original declaration that could have
`
`11· been asked at the earlier deposition.· I understand
`
`12· you might be asking questions related to
`
`13· Mr. Klausner's reply declaration that involved
`
`14· statements made in his opening declaration, and that
`
`15· would be fine with me.· But to the extent the question
`
`16· could have been asked earlier without the reply
`
`17· declaration, I would like to have a standing objection
`
`18· that those questions are outside the scope of this
`
`19· deposition.· Would that be okay with you?
`
`20· · · · · ·MR. WEIDER:· Yeah.· I don't have any issue
`
`21· with giving you a standing objection, just -- and I
`
`22· think it's implied and implicit your statement there
`
`23· that there will certainly be some questions that
`
`24· relate to material in the first declaration.· In some
`
`25· cases, they are foundational stuff to other things
`6
`
`
`
`·1· that are in the reply declaration.
`
`·2· · · · · ·So I don't think it's easy to -- but
`
`·3· certainly, all the questions I have are going to
`
`·4· ultimately relate to issues raised in the reply
`
`·5· declaration, though they necessarily cover some of the
`
`·6· same material and grounds that were in the initial
`
`·7· declaration.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Mr. Klausner, you agree that images can be
`
`·9· encoded in different formats?
`
`10· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·And PNG is an example of a format that is
`
`12· used to encode an image?
`
`13· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·And GIF is an example of a format that is
`
`15· used to encode an image?
`
`16· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`17· · · Q.· ·And videos can be encoded in different
`
`18· formats?
`
`19· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`20· · · Q.· ·And MPEG is an example of a format that is
`
`21· used to encode a video?
`
`22· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·And WMV is an example of a format that is
`
`24· used to encode a video?
`
`25· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`7
`
`
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·And devices can have different capabilities
`
`·2· with respect to format supported?
`
`·3· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·4· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· How do you mean in your
`
`·5· question the word "devices"?
`
`·6· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·Computers can have different capabilities
`
`·8· with respect to format supported?
`
`·9· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`10· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, in the interest of time,
`
`11· I think the operating systems of those computers can
`
`12· support different formats.· The computers themselves
`
`13· are pieces of iron or metal.· And there may be ASICS
`
`14· or certain particular chips that have the task or are
`
`15· pre-programmed with the task, for example, FPGAs, of
`
`16· handling certain formats.
`
`17· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`18· · · Q.· ·So hardware can be installed on devices to
`
`19· enable them to support particular formats?
`
`20· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·And software can be installed on devices to
`
`22· enable them to support particular formats?
`
`23· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`24· · · Q.· ·And the software and hardware used to encode
`
`25· and decode video is sometimes referred to as codecs?
`8
`
`
`
`·1· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·And what would happen in the case if a device
`
`·3· received a video encoded in MPEG format, but did not
`
`·4· have installed in it a codec to decode the video?
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Incomplete
`
`·6· hypothetical.
`
`·7· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What would happen is
`
`·8· reproducible but indeterminate.
`
`·9· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`10· · · Q.· ·And what do you mean by that?
`
`11· · · A.· ·Given the same environment in your
`
`12· hypothetical, typically, the same thing would happen,
`
`13· but it's not possible to determine what that thing is
`
`14· until it happens.
`
`15· · · Q.· ·Without a codec to decode the MPEG format
`
`16· received, would a device be capable of displaying that
`
`17· video?
`
`18· · · A.· ·Can I hear the question again?
`
`19· · · Q.· ·Sure.· Without a codec to decode the MPEG
`
`20· formatted video received, would a device be capable of
`
`21· displaying the video?
`
`22· · · A.· ·Generally not.· In other words, it's not
`
`23· reasonable to expect it would be able to display the
`
`24· video, but the results are unpredictable, even though
`
`25· they are reproducible.
`
`9
`
`
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·I'm going to show you what is marked as
`
`·2· WhatsApp Exhibit Number 1103, which is a copy of the
`
`·3· Coulombe reference.
`
`·4· · · A.· ·Thank you.· I have it.
`
`·5· · · Q.· ·And I would like you to turn your attention
`
`·6· to Paragraph 2 of Coulombe.
`
`·7· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·I'm going to read the, I guess it's the third
`
`·9· sentence in that paragraph which says, "But emerging
`
`10· mobile terminals have made this requirement more
`
`11· challenging due to the wide diversity of terminal
`
`12· characteristic:· Display size and resolution,
`
`13· available memory, format supported, et cetera."
`
`14· · · · · ·Do you see that sentence?
`
`15· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`16· · · Q.· ·So Coulombe defines terminal characteristics
`
`17· to include the format supported?
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Calls for a legal
`
`19· conclusion.· Calls for speculation.
`
`20· · · · · ·MR. WEIDER:· I just want to make clear that
`
`21· those are not proper objections, according to the IPR
`
`22· rules.· You're allowed to just say "objection" and not
`
`23· make them more than that.· Appreciate you stick to the
`
`24· IPR rules.
`
`25· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What you've read is correct.
`10
`
`
`
`·1· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·And do you agree that Coulombe lists "format
`
`·3· supported" as an exemplary terminal characteristic?
`
`·4· · · A.· ·I agree he lists that, yes.· Although the
`
`·5· typical terminal doesn't do that.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·If you turn to Paragraph 5?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·And the paragraph reads, "However, it appears
`
`·9· that media content allocation proxies will play an
`
`10· important role in maintaining interoperability and
`
`11· increasing user experience in many domains of
`
`12· application including messaging.· These proxies
`
`13· commonly referred as transcoding proxies actually
`
`14· transform media context to make it suitable for the
`
`15· destination terminal; for instance, one such
`
`16· transformation is format conversion, for example, PNG
`
`17· to GIF."
`
`18· · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`
`19· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`20· · · Q.· ·So the example given here of converting an
`
`21· image from PNG to GIF would be necessary where the
`
`22· terminal characteristics of the receiving device
`
`23· support displaying images in the GIF format, but not
`
`24· the PNG format in which the image was sent?
`
`25· · · A.· ·Even though you've read Number 5 correctly,
`11
`
`
`
`·1· PNG and GIF are not characteristics of terminals; they
`
`·2· are characteristics of the software and the computer
`
`·3· that are being used to display in the terminal.
`
`·4· Terminals display what they are provided, and are not
`
`·5· aware typically of the format as to whether it's PNG
`
`·6· or GIF.· They receive pixels and they are driven by
`
`·7· pixels.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·But installed on that terminal, as we
`
`·9· discussed before, is either hardware or software that
`
`10· may be capable of decoding the formats received,
`
`11· correct?
`
`12· · · A.· ·No, we didn't discuss that before.· You've
`
`13· mischaracterized my prior answer.· The software on
`
`14· terminals is involved in managing the memory on the
`
`15· terminal, the buffer, and making sure that what is
`
`16· displayed is appropriate for the character sets
`
`17· available for that terminal.· Terminals are agnostic
`
`18· with respect to PNG or GIF, unless they are
`
`19· specialized terminals.· From a user perspective, a
`
`20· terminal is just a piece of hardware.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Do you understand the use of "terminal" here
`
`22· to refer to a computer?
`
`23· · · A.· ·I understand it to refer to a terminal.
`
`24· · · Q.· ·And not a computer?
`
`25· · · A.· ·Were it to say "computer," then I would
`12
`
`
`
`·1· understand it to be computer.· For example, in
`
`·2· Coulombe, Paragraph 4, in the center, Coulombe states,
`
`·3· "A browsing cell phone."· In this case, Coulombe
`
`·4· intended cell phone.· If Coulombe had intended
`
`·5· terminal, Coulombe would have stated "terminal."
`
`·6· Stated the word "terminal."
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·You agree that a cell phone is a computer?
`
`·8· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·In the same Paragraph 2, it refers to, "But
`
`10· emerging mobile terminals."
`
`11· · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`12· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`13· · · Q.· ·And would a cell phone be a mobile terminal?
`
`14· · · A.· ·A cell phone is a computer that is a mobile
`
`15· device that also has attached to it a device which is
`
`16· a terminal.
`
`17· · · Q.· ·We talked previously about codecs, and that
`
`18· refers to hardware and/or software that's installed on
`
`19· a computer to enable decoding and displaying
`
`20· particular formats?
`
`21· · · A.· ·No.· A codec is not for displaying; a codec
`
`22· is for decoding what has been encoded.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·Okay.· So a codec would refer to hardware
`
`24· and/or software that's installed on a computer to
`
`25· enable the encoding and decoding of particular
`13
`
`
`
`·1· formats?
`
`·2· · · A.· ·I would say a codec is intended for encoding
`
`·3· and decoding a particular format.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Okay.
`
`·5· · · · · ·(Pause in proceedings.)
`
`·6· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·7· · · Q.· ·And a codec can be installed on a computer in
`
`·8· the form of either software or hardware?
`
`·9· · · A.· ·I would say in the form of particular
`
`10· software or hardware.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And a computer includes a terminal?
`
`12· · · A.· ·Depending on the purpose for which the
`
`13· computer is prepared, it may or may not include a
`
`14· display.
`
`15· · · Q.· ·So it's your understanding that when Coulombe
`
`16· uses the word "terminal," he's referring to a display
`
`17· and not a computer?
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`19· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In the context of Coulombe, as
`
`20· I understand it, he's referring to the end device, the
`
`21· device that's provided to the user or the server.· And
`
`22· for a user, that end device is typically, if they are
`
`23· going to be receiving video of some form or a message
`
`24· of some form, that's going to appear on a screen, a
`
`25· display.
`
`14
`
`
`
`·1· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·So when he says in Paragraph 2, "But emerging
`
`·3· mobile terminals have made that requirement more
`
`·4· challenging," is it your position that a cell phone is
`
`·5· not a mobile terminal?
`
`·6· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·7· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I've already answered that
`
`·8· question.· You asked me prior if a cell phone was a
`
`·9· computer, and in the same or another question, I
`
`10· answered you that the cell phone contains a display,
`
`11· which in that case is the terminal device of the cell
`
`12· phone.
`
`13· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`14· · · Q.· ·So when he says, "But emerging mobile
`
`15· terminals," it's your understanding that he's
`
`16· referring to only the display of the cell phone and
`
`17· not the entire cell phone?
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`19· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think if he intended to refer
`
`20· to the entirety of the cell phone, he would have said
`
`21· "emerging mobile phones" or "emerging mobile cell
`
`22· phones."· He used the word "terminal," which is the
`
`23· end result of a communication of a video or a message
`
`24· to a mobile user.
`
`25· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`15
`
`
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·Okay.· But he does, as we talked about
`
`·2· before, list in terminal characteristics the format
`
`·3· supported, correct?
`
`·4· · · A.· ·That's what he says.
`
`·5· · · Q.· ·And "format supported" would be a
`
`·6· characteristic of the computer?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·Yes.· The software that's inside the
`
`·8· computer, or the hardware that is capable of
`
`·9· recognizing and dealing with the different formats.
`
`10· · · Q.· ·Does the capability of a terminal to display
`
`11· a particular received media type depend on whether the
`
`12· media type is supported by the computer?
`
`13· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`14· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· A display will show, present to
`
`15· the user, anything that it is told to display.· In
`
`16· other words, anything that's directed to present at a
`
`17· certain XY position on its surface has a number of
`
`18· pixels in combination.· Whether that makes -- whether
`
`19· that pixel makes any sense to the user is irrelevant
`
`20· to the terminal.· The display is agnostic as to the
`
`21· content of that information.
`
`22· · · · · ·And so if the buffer to the terminal is
`
`23· presented with garbage for a particular pixel, that
`
`24· terminal display will provide the user with something
`
`25· that's garbage.· It has no independent knowledge of
`16
`
`
`
`·1· what the contents are that it's displaying.
`
`·2· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·An element of the Coulombe described system
`
`·4· is the SIP Proxy Registrar 12?
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·Showing you now what was marked as Exhibit
`
`·7· 2103, and this is a copy of RFC 2543.
`
`·8· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·And a person of skill in the art would
`
`10· understand that the Proxy Registrar 12 will include
`
`11· all the functions that are set out in RFC 2543?
`
`12· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Foundation.
`
`13· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`14· · · Q.· ·Let me just ask it slightly differently. A
`
`15· person of skill in the art would understand that the
`
`16· Proxy Registrar 12 would be capable of all the
`
`17· functions set out in RFC 2543?
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`19· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I refer you for my answer to
`
`20· Paragraph 56 of Coulombe, where he states that "The
`
`21· SIP Proxy Registrar 12 performs the operations
`
`22· required by a SIP proxy and registrar specified in RFC
`
`23· 2543," in addition to other operations as described in
`
`24· Coulombe's Paragraph 57 through -- well, following
`
`25· through the end of his section here.· It looks like it
`17
`
`
`
`·1· goes through -- it goes on to several columns of
`
`·2· Coulombe.
`
`·3· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·So I think you answered my question.· But
`
`·5· just to be clear, so you would agree that a person of
`
`·6· skill in the art would understand that Proxy Registrar
`
`·7· 12 would be capable of all the functions set out in
`
`·8· RFC 2543?
`
`·9· · · A.· ·My answer was, performs the operations
`
`10· required as listed in Coulombe, starting in Paragraph
`
`11· 56.
`
`12· · · Q.· ·And Paragraph 56 says that this element
`
`13· performs the operations required by SIP proxy and
`
`14· registrar specified in 2543.· You understand that --
`
`15· person of skill in the art would understand that to
`
`16· refer to all the functions that are set forth in -- or
`
`17· all the operations that are set forth in RFC 2543?
`
`18· · · A.· ·No.· It performs the operations required by
`
`19· the SIP proxy and registrar specified in RFC 2543, in
`
`20· addition to others as follows in Coulombe in
`
`21· Paragraphs 57 and on.
`
`22· · · Q.· ·Show you a copy of your prior deposition,
`
`23· which is Patent Number Exhibit 2108.
`
`24· · · · · ·And if you would turn to Page 21 -- I'm
`
`25· sorry, 21 of the actual Page 6 of the document, but
`18
`
`
`
`·1· Page 21 of your prior testimony.
`
`·2· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·And I want to refer to the question and
`
`·4· answer at 21 that begins Line 14?
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·"Question:· Well, when Coulombe says that the
`
`·7· · · · · ·-- that the quote, "This element SIP proxy
`
`·8· · · · · ·Registrar 12 performs the operations required
`
`·9· · · · · ·by a SIP proxy in registrar specified in RFC
`
`10· · · · · ·2543," wouldn't a person of ordinary skill in
`
`11· · · · · ·the art understand that would include all the
`
`12· · · · · ·functions set out in RFC 2543?
`
`13· · · · · ·"Answer:· I think that's a fair reading."
`
`14· · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`15· · · A.· ·Yes, I did.· Yes, I do.
`
`16· · · Q.· ·Maybe I didn't ask it with the same precision
`
`17· now that I did then.· So I'm really not trying to
`
`18· impeach you; I'm just trying to get to a framework.
`
`19· I'm going to use -- still comfortable with the
`
`20· testimony you gave at the prior deposition?
`
`21· · · A.· ·Yes.· I understood that to mean all of the
`
`22· operations required by a SIP proxy and registrar.
`
`23· · · Q.· ·And the functions required by a SIP proxy and
`
`24· registrar would include configuring media streams that
`
`25· are described at B-1 of RFC 2543?
`19
`
`
`
`·1· · · A.· ·What page are you referring to in RFC 2543?
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·It's at the back.· It's B-1.· There's like
`
`·3· appendices.· I think they are A, B and C.· Give me a
`
`·4· second and I'll get you to the page.· The page is, I
`
`·5· think, 0121, it begins at the bottom, the Bates
`
`·6· numbers.· And 0122.· Continues to 0124.
`
`·7· · · A.· ·I have B-1 on Page 121.
`
`·8· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And the functions of RFC 253 would
`
`·9· include configuring media streams described at B-1 of
`
`10· RFC 2543?
`
`11· · · A.· ·I think it includes this operation.
`
`12· · · Q.· ·The Proxy Registrar 12 was capable of
`
`13· delivering encoded video streams between two
`
`14· terminals?
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`16· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm sorry.· Where do you see in
`
`17· B-1 encoding two video streams between two terminals?
`
`18· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`19· · · Q.· ·I'm asking -- I wasn't necessarily referring
`
`20· to B-1 specifically.· But is Proxy Registrar 12
`
`21· capable of delivering encoded video streams?
`
`22· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`23· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Where were you referring to in
`
`24· Coulombe?
`
`25· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`20
`
`
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·If you would turn, for example, to Paragraph
`
`·2· 69 of Coulombe.
`
`·3· · · A.· ·I'm there.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Where it says, "It is said that SIP proxies
`
`·5· may transcode content.· However, the scope of this
`
`·6· claim was mainly for multimedia sessions (audio video
`
`·7· calls) where codecs or bandwidth between users don't
`
`·8· match"?
`
`·9· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`10· · · Q.· ·Is that an example showing the Proxy
`
`11· Registrar 12 was capable of delivering encoded video
`
`12· streams?
`
`13· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`14· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· 69 of Coulombe, Paragraph 69
`
`15· states that it is said that the SIP proxy can
`
`16· transcode content.· And this is in the context of a
`
`17· video stream.· Does that answer your question?
`
`18· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`19· · · Q.· ·Well, in order to -- the process of
`
`20· transcoding would be to transcode the format of the
`
`21· video from one format to a different format.· Would
`
`22· that be accurate?
`
`23· · · A.· ·Yes.· I think so.· Not only, in other words,
`
`24· not exclusively.
`
`25· · · Q.· ·But transcoded would at least include that
`21
`
`
`
`·1· much?
`
`·2· · · A.· ·I think so.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·And Proxy Registrar 12 -- so you agree that
`
`·4· proxy 12 can transcode video content?
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.· Foundation.
`
`·6· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yes.· The paragraph 69
`
`·7· indicates that streaming video can be transcoded by
`
`·8· proxy 12 between two users, or, as he says, two
`
`·9· terminals.· He uses them interchangeably, actually.
`
`10· "Users" meaning user terminals.
`
`11· · · · · ·So Coulombe uses the word "terminals" to mean
`
`12· users in some cases.· So whether the terminal that's
`
`13· attached to the device at the user end or at the
`
`14· server end, or the other end of the conversation. I
`
`15· use "conversation" loosely.· "Communication" is
`
`16· probably better.
`
`17· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`18· · · Q.· ·And Proxy Registrar 12 is capable of
`
`19· transcoding video in situations in which the codecs
`
`20· don't match between the two terminals?
`
`21· · · A.· ·In your question, what type of video are you
`
`22· referring to?
`
`23· · · Q.· ·Streaming video.
`
`24· · · A.· ·Proxy 12 can transcode that streaming video
`
`25· between the two users with their terminals, yes.
`22
`
`
`
`·1· · · Q.· ·In a situation in which the codecs don't
`
`·2· match?
`
`·3· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Okay.· And codecs not matching can occur in
`
`·5· circumstances in which the sending and receiving
`
`·6· terminals have different characteristics with respect
`
`·7· to format support?
`
`·8· · · A.· ·It can occur where the two computers or FPGAs
`
`·9· or equivalent, as I described earlier, do not accept
`
`10· the formats of each other.· And so in order for those
`
`11· computers and those users to display on their
`
`12· terminals, on their displays, there would have to be
`
`13· some adaptation of the codecs.
`
`14· · · Q.· ·In the session-based SIP as described in
`
`15· Coulombe, the SIP Proxy Registrar 12 can transcode the
`
`16· video from -- withdrawn.
`
`17· · · · · ·If a sending terminal's characteristics only
`
`18· supported MPEG and a receiving terminal's
`
`19· characteristics only supported WMV, that would be a
`
`20· circumstance in which the codecs didn't match?
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`22· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· In the circumstance where the
`
`23· portions of the receiver's computer that drives the
`
`24· terminal don't support MPEG, it likely would be
`
`25· mismatch of codec.· Most likely.· There are several
`23
`
`
`
`·1· forms of MPEG, and there are well known descriptions
`
`·2· of what are mismatches in codecs.
`
`·3· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·You agree that transcoding proxies in
`
`·5· session-based SIP communications were capable of
`
`·6· transcoding media to make it suitable to the receiving
`
`·7· terminal's capabilities?
`
`·8· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`·9· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What type of video are you
`
`10· referring to in your question?
`
`11· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`12· · · Q.· ·Streaming video.
`
`13· · · A.· ·Yes.· Coulombe says that his proxy can do
`
`14· that.
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. WEIDER:· Take a short break.
`
`16· · · · · ·(Recess taken from 11:13 a.m. to 11:18 a.m.)
`
`17· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`18· · · Q.· Showing you, Mr. Klausner, what was Patent
`
`19· Owner's Exhibit 2104, which is the SIP extensions for
`
`20· instant messaging.
`
`21· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`22· · · Q.· ·Now, the SIP extensions for instant messaging
`
`23· didn't support the capability of adapting the format
`
`24· of media to make it suitable to the recipient,
`
`25· correct?
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· · · A.· ·When you say "media," what do you mean?
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·Images and/or video.
`
`·3· · · A.· ·What you say "video," what do you mean?
`
`·4· · · Q.· ·Didn't intend my question to be limiting.
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Can I hear your question again?
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·Sure.· The SIP extensions for instant
`
`·7· messaging didn't support the capability of adapting
`
`·8· the format of media to make it suitable to the
`
`·9· recipient, correct?
`
`10· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`11· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Do you have somewhere that you
`
`12· can point me to that you're referring to in this
`
`13· Exhibit 2104?
`
`14· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`15· · · Q.· ·Sure.· One second.
`
`16· · · · · ·Why don't we do it this way.· Let's look at
`
`17· -- I'll try to then find the section that Coulombe is
`
`18· referring to.· But if you turn to Coulombe, Paragraph
`
`19· 69?
`
`20· · · A.· ·I have it.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·And I'm going to read the last portion, which
`
`22· says, "In Jay Roseberg draft SIP extensions for
`
`23· instant messaging, draft IETF SIMPLE IM 01, IETF
`
`24· January 2002, it describes SIP extensions for instant
`
`25· messaging.· There's no mention of adaption
`25
`
`
`
`·1· functionality.· It says if recipient doesn't support a
`
`·2· certain format, it should return an error message (415
`
`·3· equals unsupported media type) containing an Accept
`
`·4· header listing the supported formats.· That would tell
`
`·5· the sender valid formats to send."
`
`·6· · · · · ·Do you see that?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·Yes.· I think that's referring to the SIMPLE
`
`·8· RSC at 7.5.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·And that's we are looking at, right?
`
`10· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`11· · · Q.· ·So to go back to my question, the SIP
`
`12· extensions for instant messaging did not support the
`
`13· capabilities of adapting the format of media to make
`
`14· it suitable to the recipient?
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`16· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Coulombe says there's no
`
`17· mention of adaptation functionality.
`
`18· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`19· · · Q.· ·Are you aware of any mention of adaption
`
`20· functionality in SIP extensions for instant messaging?
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`22· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· And you're talking about
`
`23· adaptation of video streams, correct?
`
`24· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`25· · · Q.· ·And/or media images, any sort of adaptation.
`26
`
`
`
`·1· · · A.· ·As opposed to anything other than the body.
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·I don't know what you mean when you say "the
`
`·3· body."· I mean, I don't know what you're intending to
`
`·4· be limiting.· I'm basically asking a general question.
`
`·5· When Coulombe says there's no mention that such
`
`·6· adaptation would take place for messaging
`
`·7· applications, I'm -- I intend my question to be a
`
`·8· general question as to whether or not you're aware of
`
`·9· any discussion in SIP instant messaging protocol that
`
`10· relates to adapting either images or video in any
`
`11· form?
`
`12· · · A.· ·By "adapting," you mean transcoding?
`
`13· · · Q.· ·Transcoding, or doing any other form of
`
`14· adaption.
`
`15· · · A.· ·Well, typically, messages are altered in
`
`16· their going from hop to hop.· And there is a teaching
`
`17· in SIMPLE on how to do that. In SIMPLE, S-I-M-P-L-E,
`
`18· which is all caps.· But I don't recall anything that
`
`19· satisfies your question.
`
`20· · · Q.· ·Let go to Paragraph 67 of Coulombe.
`
`21· · · A.· ·I have 67.
`
`22· · · Q.· ·The first sentence reads, "In SIP, capability
`
`23· negotiation occurs between two clients during session
`
`24· establishment (using SDP) (Session Description
`
`25· Protocol.)"
`
`27
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`
`·2· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·3· · · Q.· ·And the negotiation using the SDP is a mean
`
`·4· by which the clients in a SIP session learn the
`
`·5· capabilities of the respective devices in the
`
`·6· particular session, correct?
`
`·7· · · A.· ·Well, you're paraphrasing.· I should say,
`
`·8· you're construing or generalizing what 67 says.· It
`
`·9· actually says without a session, which is the case,
`
`10· for instance, with SIP instant messaging, there is no
`
`11· means of knowing the capabilities or user preferences
`
`12· of the destination terminal.· And here, he's
`
`13· describing and using "destination terminal" in the
`
`14· general way he's used it throughout, which is a user
`
`15· device with a display on it.
`
`16· · · Q.· ·I'm going to get to the second sentence. I
`
`17· was really just trying to focus for a moment on the
`
`18· first sentence in that paragraph, and just --
`
`19· · · A.· ·The first sentence says that -- I'm sorry.
`
`20· I'll let you ask the question.
`
`21· · · Q.· ·Okay.· The first sentence, I won't read the
`
`22· whole sentence, but it talks about "In SIP, capability
`
`23· negotiation occurs between clients during session
`
`24· establishments."· So that's referring to the
`
`25· session-based SIP, right?
`
`28
`
`
`
`·1· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·And the means by which the clients learn
`
`·3· capabilities in session-based SIP is by information
`
`·4· that's exchanged as part of the SDP.
`
`·5· · · A.· ·Yes, in this paragraph 67.
`
`·6· · · Q.· ·For example, when the codec didn't match the
`
`·7· information, the SDP can be used to fill the gap
`
`·8· between the two terminals?
`
`·9· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`10· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· And I imagine you're talking
`
`11· about the codecs of video streams, correct?
`
`12· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`13· · · Q.· ·Correct.
`
`14· · · A.· ·I think it's possible.
`
`15· · · Q.· ·And actually, if we just quickly jump down to
`
`16· Paragraph 69, where it says, "In that case, the proxy
`
`17· can use the information, the SDP to fill the gap
`
`18· between the terminals."· That's referring to the case
`
`19· I just described of where the codecs don't match with
`
`20· respect to video streams, that the SDP can be used to
`
`21· fill the gap between the two terminals?
`
`22· · · A.· ·I think so, because he goes on to say, "There
`
`23· was no mention that such adaptation could take place
`
`24· for messaging applications, and no mention that it
`
`25· should be based on recipient's terminal
`29
`
`
`
`·1· characteristics."
`
`·2· · · Q.· ·So let's go back to Paragraph 67, the second
`
`·3· sentence, which says, "Without a session, which is the
`
`·4· case, for instance, with SIP instant messaging,
`
`·5· there's no means of knowing the capabilities or user
`
`·6· preferences of a destination terminal."
`
`·7· · · · · ·Did I read that correctly?
`
`·8· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`·9· · · Q.· ·And SIP instant messaging is done without a
`
`10· session?
`
`11· · · A.· ·Yes.
`
`12· · · Q.· ·And so in SIP instant messaging, there was no
`
`13· way to adapt messages and do it based on recipient's
`
`14· terminal characteristics because there was no way to
`
`15· know the recipient's capabilities?
`
`16· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Objection.· Form.
`
`17· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Can I hear that again?
`
`18· BY MR. WEIDER:
`
`19· · · Q.· ·Sure.· So in SIP instant messaging, there was
`
`20· no way to adapt messages and do it based on recipient's
`
`21· terminal characteristics because there was no way to
`
`22· know the recipient's capabilities?
`
`23· · · · · ·MR. LIANG:· Same objection.
`
`24· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I think it's true that there
`
`25· was no way to know the characteristics of the displ
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
