throbber
Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------------------------------
`
` AMX, LLC. and DELL INC. v. CHRIMAR SYSTEMS, INC.
` IPR2016-00569 U.S. Patent No. 8,942,107
` IPR2016-00574 U.S. Patent No. 8,902,760
` AND
` AMX, LLC, v. CHRIMAR SYSTEMS, INC.
` IPR2016-00572 U.S. Patent No. 9,049,019
` IPR2016-00573 U.S. Patent No. 9,019,838
`
`---------------------------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF RICH SEIFERT
` Menlo Park, California
` Friday, October 14, 2016
`
` Reported by: ASHLEY SOEVYN, CSR
` Job No: 114275
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-1
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 2
`
` October 14, 2016
` 9:10 a.m.
`
` Deposition of RICH SEIFERT, held at the
` offices of McDermott Will & Emery, 275
` Middlefield, Road, Menlo Park, California,
` before Ashley Soevyn, a Certified Shorthand
` Reporter, of California.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`1 2 3
`
`4
`
`5 6 7
`
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-2
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 3
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`THOMPSON & KNIGHT
`Attorneys for the Patent Owner
` 1722 Routh Street
` Dallas, TX 75201
`BY: JUSTIN COHEN, ESQ.
`
`MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY
`Attorneys for Petitioners AMX
` 227 West Monroe Street
` Chicago, IL 60606
`BY: AMOL PARIKH, ESQ.
` DAVID BLUESTONE, ESQ.
`
`1 2
`
`3 4 5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-3
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`Page 4
`
`NORTON ROSE FULBRIGHT LLP
`Attorneys for Petitioners Dell, Inc.
` 98 San Jacinto Boulevard
` Suite 1100
` Austin, Texas
`BY: BERT GREENE, ESQ.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`1
`
`2 3 4
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-4
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 5
`
` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED, by
` and between the attorneys for the respective
` parties herein, that filing and sealing be
` and the same are hereby waived.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
` that all objections, except as to the form
` of the question, shall be reserved to the
` time of the trial.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
` that the within deposition may be sworn to
` and signed before any officer authorized to
` administer an oath, with the same force and
` effect as if signed and sworn to before the
` Court.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-5
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` R I C H S E I F E R T,
`was called as a witness, and having been duly
`sworn by the court reporter, was examined and
`testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY
`MR. COHEN:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Seifert.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. How are you today?
` A. Okay.
` Q. And you understand we're here for the
` deposition in the four IPR proceedings, IPR Nos.
` 2016-569, -572, -573 and -574; is that correct?
` A. I'm not familiar with the numbers, but
` I'm familiar with the proceedings.
` Q. Have you been involved in a deposition
` in an IPR before?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you served as an expert in other
` IPR proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which ones, if you recall?
` A. I don't recall, and it was very -- my
` involvement was very brief.
` Q. So this is your first IPR deposition?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-6
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 7
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Yes.
` Q. Well, a few things to get some ground
` rules, because this is a little bit different
` than a normal District Court deposition. You've
` had a number of those depositions, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you recall we were actually here
` in this room back in June for your deposition in
` the District Court litigation between AMX and
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Have you reviewed those deposition
` transcripts?
` A. Yes. I had to review them for
` correctness.
` Q. Was there anything that you recall
` that was incorrect?
` A. There were a few minor transcription
` errors. They were noted and returned to
` counsel.
` Q. Those would be the errata sheets we
` received?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So in an IPR deposition, this is our
` opportunity, meaning ours, Chrimar, the patent
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-7
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 8
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` owner, to cross-examine you. Do you understand
` that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So your declaration serves as your
` direct testimony in these four IPR proceedings,
` okay?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And that's the entirety of your
` testimony on direct for these IPR proceedings.
` Do you understand?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. If you say so.
` Q. The IPR board will not hear -- very
` unlikely to hear live testimony. So, unlike
` District Court litigation, which we'll have in a
` week or so, this is now only a time for Chrimar
` to cross-examine you on your declarations in
` these matters. Do you understand?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I accept your explanation.
` Q. Now, because this is now
` cross-examination, you are not permitted to
` confer with your lawyers during breaks at any
` time. Do you understand that?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-8
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 9
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I do now.
` MR. COHEN: Counsel, is there any
` disagreement on that rule?
` MR. PARIKH: I mean, we're allowed to
` talk, not about the substance of his
` testimony during the breaks, but we are
` allowed to converse during the breaks. I
` just want that to be clear.
` MR. COHEN: Yes.
` MR. PARIKH: And I'll represent we
` won't discuss the substance of his testimony
` during any breaks.
` MR. COHEN: Of any past testimony or
` future testimony.
` MR. PARIKH: Correct.
`BY MR. COHEN:
` Q. Now, Mr. Seifert, is there any reason
` why you can't give full and truthful testimony
` today?
` A. No.
` Q. Anything affecting your ability to
` understand my questions today?
` A. No.
` Q. Are any of the lawyers here
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-9
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` representing you personally?
` A. I don't know.
` MR. COHEN: Are you representing him
` as a witness?
` MR. PARIKH: Not as an individual. I
` mean, he's an expert. I mean, he obviously
` has -- you know, if things do come up that
` are outside the context of this, we will
` confer with him on whether he can testify
` about other confidential matters, for
` example, or any work product that he's
` involved in. But we're presenting him as an
` expert declarant in these proceedings.
` MR. COHEN: You're not representing
` him, so there is not a privilege issue
` between Mr. Seifert and McDermott
` Will & Emery?
` MR. PARIKH: For purposes of the IPR
` there is no privilege issue. I mean, there
` are obviously work product issues that come
` up in other contexts.
` MR. COHEN: Understood. And, Bert,
` same with Dell, you're not representing him
` personally?
` MR. GREENE: Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-10
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 11
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`BY MR. COHEN:
` Q. Mr. Seifert, how did you go about --
` well, let me go back up to -- just to understand
` the ground rules on this IPR deposition and how
` it's different. The majority of the deposition
` today, because it's cross-examination, I'm going
` to be very careful and limit my questions to
` things that require a yes or no answer.
` Understood?
` A. I understand, but I also understand
` that some questions can't be answered yes or no.
` Q. Fair enough. And when that happens,
` what I'd like you to do is just tell me if you
` can't answer it yes or no. Is that fair?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And if you can't answer it yes or no,
` if I would like, I'll ask you to explain. And
` if I don't ask, I would like you to reserve
` explanation for if your counsel decides to ask
` you some redirect testimony. Is that fair?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Essentially, because your declaration
` is the substance of your testimony, I'm going to
` try to limit the discussion today to just your
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-11
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 12
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` declaration. Understood?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You've served a number of expert
` reports in these matters involving Chrimar's
` patents, correct?
` A. In other forms.
` Q. In other forms? So you and I know
` there is a lot of material out there in your
` expert reports and things that are not at issue
` and were not provided to the PTAB in your
` declarations, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I'm not going to ask about those
` materials today. Understood?
` A. Okay.
` Q. And unless specifically asked, I'm
` going to ask you not to volunteer additional
` testimony of things that are not before the
` PTAB. Understood?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay. It's a compartmentalization
` issue, but I will try to compartmentalize my
` answers to what is in the declarations before
` the PTAB.
` Q. Thank you. It's a strange proceeding,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-12
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 13
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` but this is only limited to my cross-examination
` of you in these four proceedings, and I'm going
` to do my best to limit it to just
` cross-examination. Understood?
` A. Understood.
` Q. How did you go about preparing for
` today's deposition?
` A. First I reread my declarations.
` Second, I conferred with counsel yesterday and
` we spent some time reviewing the material in my
` declarations.
` Q. About how many hours did you work with
` counsel yesterday?
` A. Oh, not including lunch breaks and
` such, probably six hours, seven hours.
` Q. And who did you meet with yesterday?
` A. I met with Mr. Parikh, Mr. Greene,
` Mr. Bluestone, and very briefly with Brent
` Hawkins, just as a courtesy hello.
` Q. Anyone else?
` A. No.
` Q. Other than your declarations, were
` there any documents that you reviewed in
` preparation for today?
` A. I would, at times during my review of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-13
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 14
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` the declaration, refer to the patents that the
` declaration is discussing to confirm that what I
` said in the declaration, you know, corresponds
` to what's in the cited prior art. So I referred
` to the prior art that is cited in the
` declarations.
` Q. Were you reviewing any prior art that
` is not specifically cited in your declarations?
` A. I don't believe so.
` Q. Mr. Seifert, have you ever testified
` in court?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When was that?
` A. On four occasions.
` Q. Do you recall the location and the
` cases?
` A. The first case was 1996, Southern
` District of New York. I'm trying to remember
` the plaintiff. It's a company that is no longer
` in existence. I was expert for defendant Intel
` and a joint defense team. I would have to check
` my CV to see who the plaintiff was, but it was
` a -- if you want to put my CV in front of me, I
` can tell you.
` Q. I hand you Petitioners' Exhibit 1010.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-14
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 15
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Thank you.
` MR. PARIKH: Thanks.
` A. So that was Datapoint v. Intel.
` Q. And the next time you testified?
` A. The next time I testified in a court.
` Can you clarify the question? Are you
` asking only testifying as a witness?
` Q. Correct; testifying actually in court
` as opposed to depositions.
` A. As a witness?
` Q. As an expert.
` Are there other times when you were
` testifying as a witness?
` A. There were other times when I was
` testifying in court but not as a witness, as a
` special master.
` Q. When was that?
` A. That was Intel v. Broadcom.
` Q. That's this 2000-2001?
` A. Yes. I was a special master in that
` case, and I testified to the extent that I spoke
` to the judge and was on the record.
` Q. And the next time?
` A. The next time is Connectel v. NMS.
` That was in the Eastern District of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-15
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 16
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Massachusetts. I remember because it was a
` brand-new building, beautiful new building.
` Q. And the next time?
` A. Do you consider testifying at a
` Markman hearing that is not held in a courtroom
` to be testifying in court?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay. The next time would be 2002,
` Chrimar v. Cisco.
` Q. That's four instances. Are there any
` others?
` A. Yeah. There might be a fifth. Let me
` check.
` Yes. 2006, Chrimar v. PowerDSine and
` D-Link.
` Q. Is that also a Markman hearing?
` A. That was a Markman hearing.
` Q. Is that all?
` A. I believe that's all.
` Q. Turning to the front page of your
` CV -- and I notice at the bottom right, this one
` is February 2015. Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as
` Exhibit 2031 --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-16
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 17
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` (Exhibit 2031, CV of Rich Seifert,
` July 2016, marked for identification, as of
` this date.)
` Q. This is your July 2016 CV; is that
` correct?
` A. It appears to be.
` Q. Starting with your education, you have
` a bachelor's of electrical engineering from City
` College of New York; is that right?
` A. That's right. It's actually called a
` bachelor of engineering and electrical
` engineering.
` Q. Bachelor of engineering and electrical
` engineering. And a master's of science in
` electrical engineering in 1979 from Worcester
` Polytechnic Institute?
` A. It's pronounced Wooster (ph.) I don't
` know how you get that on the transcript, but
` it's Wooster (ph.) not Worcester. This is
` Worcester Polytechnic.
` Q. And an MBA from Clark University in
` 1984?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And a JD from Santa Clara in 2006,
` right?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-17
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 18
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're a lawyer?
` A. I'm a member of the California Bar and
` the federal bar for the Northern District.
` Q. So you're a lawyer?
` A. I am an attorney.
` Q. What is your current profession?
` A. I'm retired.
` Q. Not completely retired?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I don't think anyone completely
` retires these days.
` Q. You're serving as an expert witness in
` several cases involving Chrimar currently,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Are you serving as an expert witness
` for other parties in other cases?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which ones?
` A. There are a number of cases that
` are -- that are, in theory, still pending, but
` there is no activity on them and hasn't been for
` many, many months, and so I'm not aware of the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-18
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 19
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` status. But officially, I'm still an expert.
` There is also one case that is not listed on
` even this latest CV, which is confidential.
` Q. Meaning you can't tell me --
` A. I can't tell you the clients.
` Q. But primarily you're doing litigation
` consulting currently?
` A. I'm not sure what you mean by
` "primarily." As opposed to --
` Q. You said you were retired.
` A. I'm retired.
` Q. And currently you're serving as an
` expert witness for AMX and Dell in these IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. Correct, but it's not a full-time job.
` Q. And you're serving as a technical
` expert for AMX, Dell and other parties in the
` District Court litigation against Chrimar,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. We're scheduled to go to trial in a
` week?
` A. That's my understanding.
` Q. And we're scheduled to go back to
` trial in January of 2017?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-19
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 20
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. I'm not sure of that date.
` Q. And those are activities you're
` getting paid for currently?
` A. Yes.
` Q. That's litigation consulting?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Serving as an expert witness?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Other than these activities right now,
` serving as an expert witness in these cases, are
` you doing any other paying activities?
` A. No.
` Q. To your knowledge, has a court ever
` criticized any of your opinions?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. To your knowledge, has the PTAB ever
` disagreed with any of your opinions?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. Are you currently a member of the
` IEEE?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you a fellow of the IEEE?
` A. No.
` Q. Being a fellow of the IEEE is a
` position of distinction, correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-20
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 21
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. I don't know what that means.
` Q. Do you recall giving a deposition in
` February in this matter regarding claim
` construction -- I'm sorry -- in the District
` Court litigation?
` A. I might have. I don't recall the
` details of it. I haven't thought about that.
` Q. I'm pulling up on the screen a cover
` page of your February deposition. Do you see
` this?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall giving this deposition?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I haven't thought about it.
` Q. You reviewed the deposition transcript
` for completeness and correctness, right?
` A. At one time, yes.
` Q. If you can see here, you were asked
` what is a fellow. Do you see that?
` A. Right.
` Q. Can you read back your answer for me,
` please?
` A. "I'm not exactly sure, but it's a
` position of distinction. I have known and
` worked with some people who are -- were or are
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-21
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 22
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` IEEE fellows."
` Q. So being a fellow of the IEEE is a
` position of distinction, correct?
` A. Yeah, I guess so.
` Q. You guess so or yes?
` A. Well --
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. -- it was my opinion at that time.
` I'll stand by that opinion.
` Q. Has your opinion changed?
` A. No.
` Q. Is it an honor to be a fellow of the
` IEEE?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. To whom?
` Q. To the community.
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I can't speak for the community.
` Q. Is it your opinion that it's an honor
` to be a fellow of the IEEE?
` A. It is considered a position of high
` regard.
` Q. Doesn't that mean it's an honor?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. It depends on your definition of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-22
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 23
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` "honor." It's a position of high regard.
` Q. If you can look at the bottom question
` here, where you were asked, "It's an honor to be
` a fellow of the IEEE, isn't it?"
` Do you see the question?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Your answer was what.
` A. Yes.
` Q. It's an honor to be a fellow of the
` IEEE, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. To some, yes.
` Q. Turning back to your CV, you've been
` serving as an expert witness against Chrimar for
` quite a while, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Not continuously.
` Q. Starting in 2002, you served as an
` expert witness for Cisco in a case involving
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And you were serving as an expert for
` Cisco?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that was against Chrimar?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-23
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 24
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that continued until about 2005?
` A. Yes.
` Q. About 2006 you were serving as an
` expert for PowerDSine and D-Link against
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that continued until about 2010?
` A. On and off, yes.
` Q. Around 2012 you began serving as an
` expert for Avaya against Chrimar, correct?
` A. Yes. Extremely brief period of time.
` Q. Were you serving as an expert for
` anyone other than Avaya in that case?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. In 2014 you began serving as an expert
` for AMX against Chrimar, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Here, it says "et al." Were you
` serving as an expert for Alcatel-Lucent
` defendants as well?
` A. I'm not -- my work currently is
` through AMX. It's my understanding that AMX is
` leading a joint defense team with a fairly large
` number of defendants that I quite honestly don't
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-24
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` know all of them, and I haven't had direct
` contact with them.
` Q. But you're serving as an expert on
` their behalf?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. It's my understanding I am serving as
` an expert for the joint defense team led by AMX.
` Q. Starting in 2014, were you also
` serving as an expert for the Alcatel-Lucent
` defendants?
` A. I may have been.
` Q. You recall serving as an expert in
` claim construction in what we call the Chrimar I
` case involving AMX and Alcatel-Lucent, correct?
` A. Yes. And, I mean, that's where it
` gets sort of confusing, because there were cases
` overlapping and changing patents and changing
` defendants.
` Q. Like I said, I'll try to keep my
` questions a little bit more specific.
` At some point, you were serving as an
` expert for the Alcatel-Lucent defendants, as
` well as AMX, against Chrimar?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. At some point, I believe that's
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-25
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 26
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` correct.
` Q. Have you had any more involvement with
` the Alcatel-Lucent defendants?
` A. Not recently.
` Q. Are you aware that Chrimar just went
` to trial against Alcatel-Lucent Enterprise, USA,
` Inc.?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you aware that Alcatel-Lucent
` Enterprise, Inc., ALE, stipulated to infringing
` Chrimar's patents before trial?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you aware that the jury returned a
` verdict in favor of Chrimar?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you began serving as an expert
` against Chrimar in 2002 through 2005 for Cisco,
` correct?
` A. Can I answer that in a non-yes/no
` manner?
` Q. You may.
` A. Thank you.
` Yes, I was on record over that period
` of time. But as you probably understand,
` cases -- work on cases comes in fits and spurts,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-26
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 27
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` and there are periods, you know, before a
` hearing or before a report is due when there's a
` whole lot of work and then there are months when
` there is absolutely nothing happening, at least
` from the expert's perspective.
` And so, yes, it says 2000 to 2005, but
` that doesn't mean that every day I got up
` between 2000 and 2005 and worked on that case.
` Q. It's not full-time employment for four
` years?
` A. It's not even close. It's still --
` it's not even full-time employment to this day.
` Q. Now, we discussed briefly earlier
` you've issued a number of reports in these
` different litigations, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You're not relying on any material in
` those reports for your IPR declarations,
` correct?
` A. My IPR declarations say what they say.
` Clearly --
` Q. I don't want to cut you off.
` A. Okay.
` Q. I just want to make certain that --
` A. My IPR declarations say what they say.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-27
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 28
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q. And all the materials you relied on
` are in your IPR declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The entirety of your analysis for the
` IPR proceedings are in your IPR declarations,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you've provided four declarations,
` one for each of these proceedings, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. One declaration in the 569 proceeding,
` one in the 572, one in the 573, and one in the
` 574, correct?
` A. I don't use the IPR numbering. I
` generally use the numbering of the patents that
` the IPR relates to. But I believe the answer is
` yes.
` Q. Well, let's do it that way. You
` provided one declaration for the '107 patent,
` one declaration for the '019 patent, one
` declaration for the '760 patent, and one
` declaration for the '838 patent in these IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And that's the entirety of your
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-28
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 29
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` analysis in these IPR proceedings for each of
` those patents, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you've reviewed those declarations
` carefully?
` A. I read them. I re-read them recently.
` Q. Are there any omissions, corrections
` errors that need to be brought to the attention
` of Chrimar and the PTAB?
` A. In the declarations?
` Q. In the declarations.
` A. No.
` Q. I want to hand you now Exhibit 1011.
` This is a list of materials you considered as
` provided with one of your declarations.
` Is this for the '107 patent in IPR
` 2016-569. Do you see this?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this is the entirety of the
` materials you considered in forming your
` opinions and analysis in these IPR proceedings,
` correct?
` A. That and my, you know, general
` knowledge of engineering.
` Q. Your general knowledge of engineering
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-29
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 30
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` aside, documents and materials you considered
` and relied on, this is the entirety, correct?
` A. I believe that's correct.
` Q. Are there any omissions here?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. Now, these IPR proceedings are with
` respect to the two De Nicolo references,
` De Nicolo '468 and De Nicolo '666, correct?
` A. That's my understanding, that -- that
` those are the references that the patent office
` is moving forward to consider.
` Q. You provided opinions also on
` auto-negotiation, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you understand that PTAB declined
` to institute on the auto-negotiation references,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Meaning the PTAB disagreed with your
` analysis and opinions?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I don't know what that means. They
` chose for whatever -- I'm not in the mind of the
` PTAB.
` Q. Does the Murphy patent, 2,822,519,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-30
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 31
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` have any relevance to your De Nicolo combination
` analysis?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. The Murphy patent provides background
` for the state of the art.
` Q. Well, let me ask an easier way.
` Your De Nicolo combination is limited
` to combining the De Nicolo '468 with the
` De Nicolo '666, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. You're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with any other
` references such as Murphy, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the Leigh
` reference correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the Puvogel
` reference, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Numbers 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, I believe
` all relate to your auto-negotiation opinions; is
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-31
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
`
`

`
`Page 32
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` that right?
` A. I believe that's correct, although
` clearly, 802.3 is relevant to De Nicolo '468,
` since his system is in an 802.3 environment.
` Q. He's a 10BASE-T system?
` A. 10 or 100.
` Q. 10 or 100BASE-T system?
` A. It's an Ethernet communication system.
` Q. Your De Nicolo analysis is not in
` combination with any of the 802.3 references
` cited here, is it?
` A. No, but it's assumed that a person of
` ordinary skill in the art reading the '468
` patent would be knowledgeable of the standards
` that apply.
` Q. I understand. To make sure that we
` and the board have an understanding, you're not
` asserting the De Nicolo references in
` combination with the 802.3 references, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the National
` Semiconductor reference here in No. 9, correct?
` A. Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket