`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT AND APPEAL BOARD
`---------------------------------------------------
`
` AMX, LLC. and DELL INC. v. CHRIMAR SYSTEMS, INC.
` IPR2016-00569 U.S. Patent No. 8,942,107
` IPR2016-00574 U.S. Patent No. 8,902,760
` AND
` AMX, LLC, v. CHRIMAR SYSTEMS, INC.
` IPR2016-00572 U.S. Patent No. 9,049,019
` IPR2016-00573 U.S. Patent No. 9,019,838
`
`---------------------------------------------------
`
` DEPOSITION OF RICH SEIFERT
` Menlo Park, California
` Friday, October 14, 2016
`
` Reported by: ASHLEY SOEVYN, CSR
` Job No: 114275
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-1
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`Page 2
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` October 14, 2016
` 9:10 a.m.
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` Deposition of RICH SEIFERT, held at the
` offices of McDermott Will & Emery, 275
` Middlefield, Road, Menlo Park, California,
` before Ashley Soevyn, a Certified Shorthand
` Reporter, of California.
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-2
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`THOMPSON & KNIGHT
`Attorneys for the Patent Owner
` 1722 Routh Street
` Dallas, TX 75201
`BY: JUSTIN COHEN, ESQ.
`
`MCDERMOTT WILL & EMERY
`Attorneys for Petitioners AMX
` 227 West Monroe Street
` Chicago, IL 60606
`BY: AMOL PARIKH, ESQ.
` DAVID BLUESTONE, ESQ.
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-3
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
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`NORTON ROSE FULBRIGHT LLP
`Attorneys for Petitioners Dell, Inc.
` 98 San Jacinto Boulevard
` Suite 1100
` Austin, Texas
`BY: BERT GREENE, ESQ.
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-4
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED, by
` and between the attorneys for the respective
` parties herein, that filing and sealing be
` and the same are hereby waived.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
` that all objections, except as to the form
` of the question, shall be reserved to the
` time of the trial.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED
` that the within deposition may be sworn to
` and signed before any officer authorized to
` administer an oath, with the same force and
` effect as if signed and sworn to before the
` Court.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-5
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` R I C H S E I F E R T,
`was called as a witness, and having been duly
`sworn by the court reporter, was examined and
`testified as follows:
`EXAMINATION BY
`MR. COHEN:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Seifert.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. How are you today?
` A. Okay.
` Q. And you understand we're here for the
` deposition in the four IPR proceedings, IPR Nos.
` 2016-569, -572, -573 and -574; is that correct?
` A. I'm not familiar with the numbers, but
` I'm familiar with the proceedings.
` Q. Have you been involved in a deposition
` in an IPR before?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you served as an expert in other
` IPR proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which ones, if you recall?
` A. I don't recall, and it was very -- my
` involvement was very brief.
` Q. So this is your first IPR deposition?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-6
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Well, a few things to get some ground
` rules, because this is a little bit different
` than a normal District Court deposition. You've
` had a number of those depositions, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you recall we were actually here
` in this room back in June for your deposition in
` the District Court litigation between AMX and
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Have you reviewed those deposition
` transcripts?
` A. Yes. I had to review them for
` correctness.
` Q. Was there anything that you recall
` that was incorrect?
` A. There were a few minor transcription
` errors. They were noted and returned to
` counsel.
` Q. Those would be the errata sheets we
` received?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So in an IPR deposition, this is our
` opportunity, meaning ours, Chrimar, the patent
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-7
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`Page 8
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` owner, to cross-examine you. Do you understand
` that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So your declaration serves as your
` direct testimony in these four IPR proceedings,
` okay?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And that's the entirety of your
` testimony on direct for these IPR proceedings.
` Do you understand?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. If you say so.
` Q. The IPR board will not hear -- very
` unlikely to hear live testimony. So, unlike
` District Court litigation, which we'll have in a
` week or so, this is now only a time for Chrimar
` to cross-examine you on your declarations in
` these matters. Do you understand?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I accept your explanation.
` Q. Now, because this is now
` cross-examination, you are not permitted to
` confer with your lawyers during breaks at any
` time. Do you understand that?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-8
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`Page 9
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` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I do now.
` MR. COHEN: Counsel, is there any
` disagreement on that rule?
` MR. PARIKH: I mean, we're allowed to
` talk, not about the substance of his
` testimony during the breaks, but we are
` allowed to converse during the breaks. I
` just want that to be clear.
` MR. COHEN: Yes.
` MR. PARIKH: And I'll represent we
` won't discuss the substance of his testimony
` during any breaks.
` MR. COHEN: Of any past testimony or
` future testimony.
` MR. PARIKH: Correct.
`BY MR. COHEN:
` Q. Now, Mr. Seifert, is there any reason
` why you can't give full and truthful testimony
` today?
` A. No.
` Q. Anything affecting your ability to
` understand my questions today?
` A. No.
` Q. Are any of the lawyers here
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-9
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`Page 10
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` representing you personally?
` A. I don't know.
` MR. COHEN: Are you representing him
` as a witness?
` MR. PARIKH: Not as an individual. I
` mean, he's an expert. I mean, he obviously
` has -- you know, if things do come up that
` are outside the context of this, we will
` confer with him on whether he can testify
` about other confidential matters, for
` example, or any work product that he's
` involved in. But we're presenting him as an
` expert declarant in these proceedings.
` MR. COHEN: You're not representing
` him, so there is not a privilege issue
` between Mr. Seifert and McDermott
` Will & Emery?
` MR. PARIKH: For purposes of the IPR
` there is no privilege issue. I mean, there
` are obviously work product issues that come
` up in other contexts.
` MR. COHEN: Understood. And, Bert,
` same with Dell, you're not representing him
` personally?
` MR. GREENE: Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-10
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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`BY MR. COHEN:
` Q. Mr. Seifert, how did you go about --
` well, let me go back up to -- just to understand
` the ground rules on this IPR deposition and how
` it's different. The majority of the deposition
` today, because it's cross-examination, I'm going
` to be very careful and limit my questions to
` things that require a yes or no answer.
` Understood?
` A. I understand, but I also understand
` that some questions can't be answered yes or no.
` Q. Fair enough. And when that happens,
` what I'd like you to do is just tell me if you
` can't answer it yes or no. Is that fair?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And if you can't answer it yes or no,
` if I would like, I'll ask you to explain. And
` if I don't ask, I would like you to reserve
` explanation for if your counsel decides to ask
` you some redirect testimony. Is that fair?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Essentially, because your declaration
` is the substance of your testimony, I'm going to
` try to limit the discussion today to just your
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-11
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` declaration. Understood?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You've served a number of expert
` reports in these matters involving Chrimar's
` patents, correct?
` A. In other forms.
` Q. In other forms? So you and I know
` there is a lot of material out there in your
` expert reports and things that are not at issue
` and were not provided to the PTAB in your
` declarations, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I'm not going to ask about those
` materials today. Understood?
` A. Okay.
` Q. And unless specifically asked, I'm
` going to ask you not to volunteer additional
` testimony of things that are not before the
` PTAB. Understood?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Okay. It's a compartmentalization
` issue, but I will try to compartmentalize my
` answers to what is in the declarations before
` the PTAB.
` Q. Thank you. It's a strange proceeding,
`
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-12
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` but this is only limited to my cross-examination
` of you in these four proceedings, and I'm going
` to do my best to limit it to just
` cross-examination. Understood?
` A. Understood.
` Q. How did you go about preparing for
` today's deposition?
` A. First I reread my declarations.
` Second, I conferred with counsel yesterday and
` we spent some time reviewing the material in my
` declarations.
` Q. About how many hours did you work with
` counsel yesterday?
` A. Oh, not including lunch breaks and
` such, probably six hours, seven hours.
` Q. And who did you meet with yesterday?
` A. I met with Mr. Parikh, Mr. Greene,
` Mr. Bluestone, and very briefly with Brent
` Hawkins, just as a courtesy hello.
` Q. Anyone else?
` A. No.
` Q. Other than your declarations, were
` there any documents that you reviewed in
` preparation for today?
` A. I would, at times during my review of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-13
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` the declaration, refer to the patents that the
` declaration is discussing to confirm that what I
` said in the declaration, you know, corresponds
` to what's in the cited prior art. So I referred
` to the prior art that is cited in the
` declarations.
` Q. Were you reviewing any prior art that
` is not specifically cited in your declarations?
` A. I don't believe so.
` Q. Mr. Seifert, have you ever testified
` in court?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When was that?
` A. On four occasions.
` Q. Do you recall the location and the
` cases?
` A. The first case was 1996, Southern
` District of New York. I'm trying to remember
` the plaintiff. It's a company that is no longer
` in existence. I was expert for defendant Intel
` and a joint defense team. I would have to check
` my CV to see who the plaintiff was, but it was
` a -- if you want to put my CV in front of me, I
` can tell you.
` Q. I hand you Petitioners' Exhibit 1010.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-14
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` A. Thank you.
` MR. PARIKH: Thanks.
` A. So that was Datapoint v. Intel.
` Q. And the next time you testified?
` A. The next time I testified in a court.
` Can you clarify the question? Are you
` asking only testifying as a witness?
` Q. Correct; testifying actually in court
` as opposed to depositions.
` A. As a witness?
` Q. As an expert.
` Are there other times when you were
` testifying as a witness?
` A. There were other times when I was
` testifying in court but not as a witness, as a
` special master.
` Q. When was that?
` A. That was Intel v. Broadcom.
` Q. That's this 2000-2001?
` A. Yes. I was a special master in that
` case, and I testified to the extent that I spoke
` to the judge and was on the record.
` Q. And the next time?
` A. The next time is Connectel v. NMS.
` That was in the Eastern District of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-15
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` Massachusetts. I remember because it was a
` brand-new building, beautiful new building.
` Q. And the next time?
` A. Do you consider testifying at a
` Markman hearing that is not held in a courtroom
` to be testifying in court?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay. The next time would be 2002,
` Chrimar v. Cisco.
` Q. That's four instances. Are there any
` others?
` A. Yeah. There might be a fifth. Let me
` check.
` Yes. 2006, Chrimar v. PowerDSine and
` D-Link.
` Q. Is that also a Markman hearing?
` A. That was a Markman hearing.
` Q. Is that all?
` A. I believe that's all.
` Q. Turning to the front page of your
` CV -- and I notice at the bottom right, this one
` is February 2015. Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` MR. COHEN: I'd like to mark as
` Exhibit 2031 --
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-16
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` (Exhibit 2031, CV of Rich Seifert,
` July 2016, marked for identification, as of
` this date.)
` Q. This is your July 2016 CV; is that
` correct?
` A. It appears to be.
` Q. Starting with your education, you have
` a bachelor's of electrical engineering from City
` College of New York; is that right?
` A. That's right. It's actually called a
` bachelor of engineering and electrical
` engineering.
` Q. Bachelor of engineering and electrical
` engineering. And a master's of science in
` electrical engineering in 1979 from Worcester
` Polytechnic Institute?
` A. It's pronounced Wooster (ph.) I don't
` know how you get that on the transcript, but
` it's Wooster (ph.) not Worcester. This is
` Worcester Polytechnic.
` Q. And an MBA from Clark University in
` 1984?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And a JD from Santa Clara in 2006,
` right?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-17
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're a lawyer?
` A. I'm a member of the California Bar and
` the federal bar for the Northern District.
` Q. So you're a lawyer?
` A. I am an attorney.
` Q. What is your current profession?
` A. I'm retired.
` Q. Not completely retired?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I don't think anyone completely
` retires these days.
` Q. You're serving as an expert witness in
` several cases involving Chrimar currently,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Are you serving as an expert witness
` for other parties in other cases?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which ones?
` A. There are a number of cases that
` are -- that are, in theory, still pending, but
` there is no activity on them and hasn't been for
` many, many months, and so I'm not aware of the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-18
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` status. But officially, I'm still an expert.
` There is also one case that is not listed on
` even this latest CV, which is confidential.
` Q. Meaning you can't tell me --
` A. I can't tell you the clients.
` Q. But primarily you're doing litigation
` consulting currently?
` A. I'm not sure what you mean by
` "primarily." As opposed to --
` Q. You said you were retired.
` A. I'm retired.
` Q. And currently you're serving as an
` expert witness for AMX and Dell in these IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. Correct, but it's not a full-time job.
` Q. And you're serving as a technical
` expert for AMX, Dell and other parties in the
` District Court litigation against Chrimar,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. We're scheduled to go to trial in a
` week?
` A. That's my understanding.
` Q. And we're scheduled to go back to
` trial in January of 2017?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`Chrimar Systems, Inc.
`Exhibit 2059-19
`IPR2016-00569 USPN 8,942,107
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` A. I'm not sure of that date.
` Q. And those are activities you're
` getting paid for currently?
` A. Yes.
` Q. That's litigation consulting?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Serving as an expert witness?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Other than these activities right now,
` serving as an expert witness in these cases, are
` you doing any other paying activities?
` A. No.
` Q. To your knowledge, has a court ever
` criticized any of your opinions?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. To your knowledge, has the PTAB ever
` disagreed with any of your opinions?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. Are you currently a member of the
` IEEE?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you a fellow of the IEEE?
` A. No.
` Q. Being a fellow of the IEEE is a
` position of distinction, correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` A. I don't know what that means.
` Q. Do you recall giving a deposition in
` February in this matter regarding claim
` construction -- I'm sorry -- in the District
` Court litigation?
` A. I might have. I don't recall the
` details of it. I haven't thought about that.
` Q. I'm pulling up on the screen a cover
` page of your February deposition. Do you see
` this?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recall giving this deposition?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I haven't thought about it.
` Q. You reviewed the deposition transcript
` for completeness and correctness, right?
` A. At one time, yes.
` Q. If you can see here, you were asked
` what is a fellow. Do you see that?
` A. Right.
` Q. Can you read back your answer for me,
` please?
` A. "I'm not exactly sure, but it's a
` position of distinction. I have known and
` worked with some people who are -- were or are
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` IEEE fellows."
` Q. So being a fellow of the IEEE is a
` position of distinction, correct?
` A. Yeah, I guess so.
` Q. You guess so or yes?
` A. Well --
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. -- it was my opinion at that time.
` I'll stand by that opinion.
` Q. Has your opinion changed?
` A. No.
` Q. Is it an honor to be a fellow of the
` IEEE?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. To whom?
` Q. To the community.
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I can't speak for the community.
` Q. Is it your opinion that it's an honor
` to be a fellow of the IEEE?
` A. It is considered a position of high
` regard.
` Q. Doesn't that mean it's an honor?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. It depends on your definition of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` "honor." It's a position of high regard.
` Q. If you can look at the bottom question
` here, where you were asked, "It's an honor to be
` a fellow of the IEEE, isn't it?"
` Do you see the question?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Your answer was what.
` A. Yes.
` Q. It's an honor to be a fellow of the
` IEEE, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. To some, yes.
` Q. Turning back to your CV, you've been
` serving as an expert witness against Chrimar for
` quite a while, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Not continuously.
` Q. Starting in 2002, you served as an
` expert witness for Cisco in a case involving
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And you were serving as an expert for
` Cisco?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that was against Chrimar?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` A. Yes.
` Q. And that continued until about 2005?
` A. Yes.
` Q. About 2006 you were serving as an
` expert for PowerDSine and D-Link against
` Chrimar, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that continued until about 2010?
` A. On and off, yes.
` Q. Around 2012 you began serving as an
` expert for Avaya against Chrimar, correct?
` A. Yes. Extremely brief period of time.
` Q. Were you serving as an expert for
` anyone other than Avaya in that case?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. In 2014 you began serving as an expert
` for AMX against Chrimar, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Here, it says "et al." Were you
` serving as an expert for Alcatel-Lucent
` defendants as well?
` A. I'm not -- my work currently is
` through AMX. It's my understanding that AMX is
` leading a joint defense team with a fairly large
` number of defendants that I quite honestly don't
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` know all of them, and I haven't had direct
` contact with them.
` Q. But you're serving as an expert on
` their behalf?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. It's my understanding I am serving as
` an expert for the joint defense team led by AMX.
` Q. Starting in 2014, were you also
` serving as an expert for the Alcatel-Lucent
` defendants?
` A. I may have been.
` Q. You recall serving as an expert in
` claim construction in what we call the Chrimar I
` case involving AMX and Alcatel-Lucent, correct?
` A. Yes. And, I mean, that's where it
` gets sort of confusing, because there were cases
` overlapping and changing patents and changing
` defendants.
` Q. Like I said, I'll try to keep my
` questions a little bit more specific.
` At some point, you were serving as an
` expert for the Alcatel-Lucent defendants, as
` well as AMX, against Chrimar?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. At some point, I believe that's
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` correct.
` Q. Have you had any more involvement with
` the Alcatel-Lucent defendants?
` A. Not recently.
` Q. Are you aware that Chrimar just went
` to trial against Alcatel-Lucent Enterprise, USA,
` Inc.?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you aware that Alcatel-Lucent
` Enterprise, Inc., ALE, stipulated to infringing
` Chrimar's patents before trial?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you aware that the jury returned a
` verdict in favor of Chrimar?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you began serving as an expert
` against Chrimar in 2002 through 2005 for Cisco,
` correct?
` A. Can I answer that in a non-yes/no
` manner?
` Q. You may.
` A. Thank you.
` Yes, I was on record over that period
` of time. But as you probably understand,
` cases -- work on cases comes in fits and spurts,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` and there are periods, you know, before a
` hearing or before a report is due when there's a
` whole lot of work and then there are months when
` there is absolutely nothing happening, at least
` from the expert's perspective.
` And so, yes, it says 2000 to 2005, but
` that doesn't mean that every day I got up
` between 2000 and 2005 and worked on that case.
` Q. It's not full-time employment for four
` years?
` A. It's not even close. It's still --
` it's not even full-time employment to this day.
` Q. Now, we discussed briefly earlier
` you've issued a number of reports in these
` different litigations, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You're not relying on any material in
` those reports for your IPR declarations,
` correct?
` A. My IPR declarations say what they say.
` Clearly --
` Q. I don't want to cut you off.
` A. Okay.
` Q. I just want to make certain that --
` A. My IPR declarations say what they say.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` Q. And all the materials you relied on
` are in your IPR declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The entirety of your analysis for the
` IPR proceedings are in your IPR declarations,
` correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you've provided four declarations,
` one for each of these proceedings, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. One declaration in the 569 proceeding,
` one in the 572, one in the 573, and one in the
` 574, correct?
` A. I don't use the IPR numbering. I
` generally use the numbering of the patents that
` the IPR relates to. But I believe the answer is
` yes.
` Q. Well, let's do it that way. You
` provided one declaration for the '107 patent,
` one declaration for the '019 patent, one
` declaration for the '760 patent, and one
` declaration for the '838 patent in these IPR
` proceedings, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And that's the entirety of your
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` analysis in these IPR proceedings for each of
` those patents, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you've reviewed those declarations
` carefully?
` A. I read them. I re-read them recently.
` Q. Are there any omissions, corrections
` errors that need to be brought to the attention
` of Chrimar and the PTAB?
` A. In the declarations?
` Q. In the declarations.
` A. No.
` Q. I want to hand you now Exhibit 1011.
` This is a list of materials you considered as
` provided with one of your declarations.
` Is this for the '107 patent in IPR
` 2016-569. Do you see this?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this is the entirety of the
` materials you considered in forming your
` opinions and analysis in these IPR proceedings,
` correct?
` A. That and my, you know, general
` knowledge of engineering.
` Q. Your general knowledge of engineering
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` aside, documents and materials you considered
` and relied on, this is the entirety, correct?
` A. I believe that's correct.
` Q. Are there any omissions here?
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. Now, these IPR proceedings are with
` respect to the two De Nicolo references,
` De Nicolo '468 and De Nicolo '666, correct?
` A. That's my understanding, that -- that
` those are the references that the patent office
` is moving forward to consider.
` Q. You provided opinions also on
` auto-negotiation, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you understand that PTAB declined
` to institute on the auto-negotiation references,
` correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Meaning the PTAB disagreed with your
` analysis and opinions?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. I don't know what that means. They
` chose for whatever -- I'm not in the mind of the
` PTAB.
` Q. Does the Murphy patent, 2,822,519,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` have any relevance to your De Nicolo combination
` analysis?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. The Murphy patent provides background
` for the state of the art.
` Q. Well, let me ask an easier way.
` Your De Nicolo combination is limited
` to combining the De Nicolo '468 with the
` De Nicolo '666, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. You're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with any other
` references such as Murphy, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the Leigh
` reference correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the Puvogel
` reference, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Numbers 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, I believe
` all relate to your auto-negotiation opinions; is
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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` that right?
` A. I believe that's correct, although
` clearly, 802.3 is relevant to De Nicolo '468,
` since his system is in an 802.3 environment.
` Q. He's a 10BASE-T system?
` A. 10 or 100.
` Q. 10 or 100BASE-T system?
` A. It's an Ethernet communication system.
` Q. Your De Nicolo analysis is not in
` combination with any of the 802.3 references
` cited here, is it?
` A. No, but it's assumed that a person of
` ordinary skill in the art reading the '468
` patent would be knowledgeable of the standards
` that apply.
` Q. I understand. To make sure that we
` and the board have an understanding, you're not
` asserting the De Nicolo references in
` combination with the 802.3 references, correct?
` MR. PARIKH: Objection, form.
` A. Correct.
` Q. And you're not asserting the De Nicolo
` references in combination with the National
` Semiconductor reference here in No. 9, correct?
` A. Correct.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702