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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` ----------------------
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ----------------------
` FMC TECHNOLOGIES, INC.,
` Petitioner,
` V.
` ONESUBSEA IP UK LIMITED,
` Patent Owner.
` ------------------------
` Case IPR2016-00328, -00467, -00378, -00495
` U.S. Patent No. 8,540,018
`
` ------------------------
`
` ** REVISED **
` DEPOSITION OF ROBERT HERRMANN, VOLUME 1
` HOUSTON, TEXAS
` AUGUST 22, 2016
`
`Reported by: Susan S. Klinger, RMR-CRR, CSR
`Job No. 111708
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 1
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

`
` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`
`Page 2
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` August 22, 2016
` 9:32 a.m.
`
` Deposition of ROBERT HERRMANN, held at the
`offices of Fish & Richardson, 1221 McKinney,
`Houston, Texas, before Susan S. Klinger, a
`Registered Merit Reporter and Certified
`Realtime Reporter of the State of Texas.
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 2
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

`
`Page 3
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`Attorneys for Petitioner:
` Michael Kiklis, Esq.
` Christopher Ricciuti, Esq.
` OBLON, McCLELLAND, MAIER & NEUSTADT
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
`
` Bruce Slayden, Esq.
` SLAYDEN GRUBERT BEARD
` 401 Congress Avenue, Suite 1900
` Austin, Texas 78701
`
`Attorneys for Patent Owner:
` Bret Winterle, Esq.
` Joshua Griswold, Esq. (Telephonically)
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` 1717 Main Street
` Dallas, Texas 75201
`
`Also Present:
` Ms. Paula Whitten-Doolen, Schlumberger
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 3
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

`
`Page 4
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS PAGE
`
`ROBERT HERRMANN
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. KIKLIS 5
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
`No. Description Page
`Exhibit 2001 U.S. Patent 8,540,018 54
`Exhibit 2002 U.S. Patent 4,589,493 142
`Exhibit 2003 Figure 2 diagram 208
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 4
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` ROBERT HERRMANN,
`having been first duly sworn testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. KIKLIS:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Herrmann.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. My name is Mike Kiklis and I'm a
`partner with the law firm known as Oblon. And
`we will be asking you some questions today
`about the declarations that you prepared as
`part of these cases. So do you understand that
`you are here for four IPRs, inter partes review
`proceedings? Do you understand that?
` A. Yes. I thought there were three,
`but yes, okay.
` Q. There is actually four.
` A. Four.
` Q. There is IPR --
` A. The fourth hadn't been ruled on;
`right?
` Q. No, there are four that have been
`ruled on. It is the one dealing with the '018
`patent, the one dealing with the '435 patent,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 5
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 6
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`the one dealing with the '893 patent and the
`one dealing with the '076 patent.
` A. Okay.
` Q. If you would like we actually -- why
`don't we hand Mr. Herrmann his declarations now
`so we can --
` A. Great, thanks.
` Q. So before I hand these to you, let
`me just get this on the record that this
`deposition is for four IPR proceedings;
`IPR2016-00328, that is for the '018 patent;
`IPR2016-00378, that is for the '435 patent;
`IPR2016-00467, that is for the '893 patent; and
`IPR 2016-00495, and that is for the '076
`patent.
` Now, the IPR numbers themselves mean
`little to us, the patents do. So if it is okay
`with you I'll be referring to the IPRs by the
`patent that is involved; is that fair enough,
`Mr. Herrmann?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that a yes? Please verbalize
`your answers. And then when I refer -- for the
`balance of this deposition when I refer to
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 6
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 7
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`"these cases," I'm referring to the four IPRs
`that I just read into the record; the one
`dealing with the '018 patent, the one dealing
`with the '435 patent, the one dealing with the
`'893 patent and the one dealing with the '076
`patent. Fair enough?
` A. I understand.
` Q. So I'm going to hand you what has
`previously been marked as Exhibit 1003 in all
`four of the IPR proceedings. You will see the
`patent number, it is noted on top. Can I get a
`copy? Let's start with the one for the '018
`patent. Do you see that, page 1?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Can you take a look through that?
`First of all, what is it?
` A. This is my declaration.
` Q. And could you flip to the last page,
`actually it is page 44. Is that your signature
`on page 44?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. So you wrote this declaration?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Now, let's look at the next one for
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 7
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 8
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`the '435 patent, do you see that?
` A. Not yet, just give me a second. The
`'934 patent?
` Q. The '435 patent?
` A. I got it, yes.
` Q. That is Exhibit 1003 to the '435
`patent IPR; correct?
` A. This is my declaration to that
`patent.
` Q. For the '435 patent; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And could you flip to page 41?
` A. Yes.
` Q. It has your signature?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. So you wrote this declaration?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Look at the next one. For the '893
`patent do you have that in front of you, sir?
` A. I do.
` Q. Exhibit 1003 to the '893 patent IPR,
`do you have that in front of you?
` A. I do.
` Q. What is that?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 8
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

`
`Page 9
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` A. It is my declaration.
` Q. Could you flip to page 28?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Is that your signature?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. So you wrote this declaration?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Let's look at the last one, Exhibit
`1003 to the '076 patent IPR. Do you have that
`in front of you?
` A. I do.
` Q. What is that?
` A. It is my declaration.
` Q. Could you flip to the signature
`page, page --
` A. 37.
` Q. 37, is that your signature?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. So you wrote this declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So --
` MR. WINTERLE: Mike, hang on one
` second. Josh wanted to listen in if you
` don't mind if I call him, is that all
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 9
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 10
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` right?
` MR. KIKLIS: Sure.
` MR. GRISWOLD: This is Josh.
` MR. WINTERLE: We're started already
` I will put you on. Can you hear me?
` MR. GRISWOLD: This is Josh.
` Q. So is it your understanding,
`Mr. Herrmann, that you're here today to talk
`about these four declarations that we just went
`through?
` A. I'm here to answer questions about
`them, yes.
` Q. Yes. Now, you have just been read
`an oath that you swore to. Do you understand
`that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. That means you have got to be
`truthful in these proceedings. Do you
`understand that; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. There could be criminal consequences
`if you're not truthful. Do you understand
`that?
` A. Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 10
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 11
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` Q. Now, if at any point during this
`deposition my questions are ambiguous or
`unclear, just ask me to rephrase it or, you
`know, ask a question. I will try to get the
`question right so that we can have a clear
`record, okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you have to make sure that you
`verbalize your answers. Now, is there any
`reason why you can't testify to your full
`ability to any medical conditions, are you on
`any drugs or any intoxicating substances
`whatsoever?
` A. No, I'm not.
` Q. But there is no medical condition
`that would prohibit you from testifying fully
`and accurately today?
` A. No, there is not.
` Q. Now, we're going to try to take a
`break about every hour or so. If you need one
`sooner than that, just let us know. And as
`long as there isn't a question pending, we can
`take a break, okay?
` A. Thank you.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 11
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 12
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` Q. Now, I do have to ask the question,
`sir, have you ever been arrested?
` A. For what?
` Q. Anything?
` A. Sure.
` Q. For what in specific?
` A. Well, when I was young I had been
`arrested for minor-in-possession.
` Q. Okay. What specifically were you
`arrested for, sir?
` A. Minor-in-possession.
` Q. Minor-in-possession of alcohol?
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Probably a couple.
` Q. Twice?
` A. Probably, I can't remember for sure.
` Q. Was there -- were you -- did you go
`to trial over those?
` A. No.
` Q. What was the result of those
`arrests?
` A. I paid a fine.
` Q. So there were two; is that correct?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 12
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 13
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` A. To the best --
` MR. WINTERLE: Objection.
` A. To the best of my recollection.
` Q. Were there any other arrests? Have
`you ever been arrested in any other
`circumstance other than those two instances
`that you just spoke of involving underage
`possession of alcohol?
` A. Public intoxication probably there
`was one.
` Q. And how old were you when that
`happened?
` A. I was probably in my 20s sometime,
`somewhere in my 20s.
` Q. So the arrests for underage
`possession of alcohol, when did they take
`place?
` MR. WINTERLE: Object as to the
` relevance and scope.
` MR. KIKLIS: You can't make a
` relevance objection in these proceedings.
` MR. WINTERLE: Object as to scope
` then.
` Q. You can answer the question.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 13
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` A. What was the question?
` Q. Yes. How old were you when you were
`arrested for underage possession of alcohol?
` A. I was under 18 or under 21, I guess.
` Q. Under 21. Were there any other
`charges other than the singular charge related
`to possession of alcohol?
` A. No.
` Q. So there were two charges when you
`were under the age of 21 and then there was one
`charge for, for drunk and disorderly, was that
`it?
` A. No.
` Q. It was just drunk?
` A. It was public intoxication, I
`believe, is what the charge was.
` Q. And how old were you when that
`happened?
` A. I was in my 20s probably. That is a
`long time ago, but total best of my
`recollection I was in my 20s.
` Q. So are you an alcoholic?
` A. No.
` Q. And you were in your 20s. Have you
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 14
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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`Page 15
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`been arrested since that public intoxication?
` A. No, not to my recollection.
` Q. Have you had any alcohol to drink
`today?
` A. No.
` Q. Now, in terms of the public
`intoxication, what was -- what was the result
`of that charge?
` A. I paid a fine.
` Q. Paid a fine. So for the three times
`that you were arrested you just paid a fine and
`that was it?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You didn't have to serve any prison
`time or anything?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you been involved in any civil
`cases?
` A. Like?
` Q. Have you been sued civilly, for
`example?
` A. No, I haven't been sued civilly for
`anything.
` Q. Have you sued anyone else civilly?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 15
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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` A. I did sue someone a few years ago.
` Q. What was that involving?
` A. It was involving a building in our
`neighborhood that they, they had -- they had
`stopped work on.
` Q. I'm sorry, what was that involving?
` A. A building in our neighborhood that
`they had stopped work on.
` Q. That they had stopped work on?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So it was an abandoned building?
` A. More or less was abandoned.
` Q. Were you the sole plaintiff in that
`case?
` A. I was.
` Q. What was the -- what were the
`allegations in that case?
` A. The deed restrictions prohibited
`them from abandoning, stopping construction the
`way they did so I sued them to finish the
`building and they did.
` Q. What is the result of the case?
` A. It is -- it is dropped. We dropped
`everything when they finished -- when they
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`OSS Exhibit 2004, pg. 16
`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
`
`

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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
`started work.
` Q. Have you been involved in any other
`civil suits?
` A. I've been involved in patent
`litigation. I don't know if that is the --
` Q. We will get to that in a minute,
`where you were a party?
` A. No, not to my recollection.
` Q. Now, let's discuss your deposition
`preparation for today. Did you meet with
`Mr. Winterle?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And how many days did you meet?
` A. Two.
` Q. Was there anybody else in the room?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who else?
` A. Mr. Griswold.
` Q. Who?
` A. Mr. Griswold.
` Q. Okay. Anybody else?
` A. No.
` Q. So it was Mr. Winterle and
`Mr. Griswold for both days?
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Nobody else in the room?
` A. No.
` Q. How many hours each day did you
`prep?
` A. I think we worked about six or seven
`hours each day.
` Q. What days did those, did that take
`place?
` A. It was last, last Thursday, last
`Friday.
` Q. Now, have you spoken with anybody
`else about your deposition?
` A. I have not.
` Q. What materials did you review in
`anticipation of your deposition?
` A. We reviewed the declarations and the
`petitions and the patents and the exhibits to
`the petitions.
` Q. Did you review all the prior art,
`you know, the Kelly patent, the Bednar patent,
`did you review the prior art?
` A. We reviewed, I believe, four, four
`or five of the prior art.
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` Q. Which ones?
` A. We reviewed the prior art that we
`listed here. We didn't review the prior art
`that was in the patent, all of it.
` Q. Understood. So you reviewed all the
`prior art that was discussed in your
`declarations?
` A. We reviewed prior art that was
`discussed in my declaration, yes.
` Q. Did you review anything else besides
`your declarations, the petition, the patents
`and the prior art?
` A. No, we didn't.
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Five or six probably somewhere
`around there.
` Q. What cases were you deposed?
` A. They were patent disputes.
` Q. Which disputes in particular?
` A. They were patents for a drilling
`rig.
` Q. Patents for what?
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` A. A drilling, a drilling design,
`drilling rig design.
` Q. So were there five disputes? How
`many disputes were there?
` A. There were -- I don't know the
`number of disputes, but there were several
`people sued for infringement and the
`depositions were in regard to that. Some of
`the depositions were -- there were two, two
`depositions on the same suit and the other
`depositions were for different suits.
` Q. Were you a fact witness in these or
`were you an expert witness?
` A. I was the inventor.
` Q. The inventor?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So all of these patent disputes that
`you were involved with prior to this case you
`were the inventor on the patents; is that
`right?
` A. Yes, that's right.
` Q. Have you ever served as an expert
`before?
` A. No, not really, not in this context.
`
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`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
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` Q. Well, in what other context?
` A. I helped, I helped Conoco on a
`dispute they had with a drilling contractor.
` Q. Who was the drilling contractor?
` A. Reading & Bates.
` Q. I'm sorry?
` A. Reading & Bates.
` Q. Can you spell that?
` A. R-E-A-D-I-N-G B-A-T-E-S.
` Q. And when was that case?
` A. The dispute was in the '90s, I
`think.
` Q. And who were you an expert for?
` A. I was Conoco.
` Q. Conoco. What was the technology?
` A. It was a drilling technique. It was
`in regard to drilling technique.
` Q. What was the result of that case?
` A. I believe they settled.
` Q. Was that a district court action?
` A. My part didn't involve a court
`action. I gave testimony, a statement to
`Conoco to use in their dispute.
` Q. As an expert not as a fact witness?
`
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`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
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` A. It would have been as an expert.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I fear I may not understand what you
`mean by expert, but it wasn't as facts. It was
`as, it would be somebody who was knowledgeable
`in that.
` Q. Do you understand that you are
`serving today as an expert witness?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. For --
` A. Excuse me.
` Q. -- FMC?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Where you offer opinions in your
`declarations?
` A. Sorry?
` Q. Where you have offered opinions in
`your declarations?
` A. Is that a question? Did you say
`where or --
` Q. You are serving as an expert today;
`correct?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. What I mean by that is a case where
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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`you have offered opinions in a declaration or a
`report, okay? Do you understand that?
` A. I understand that.
` Q. A fact witness is when you are
`testifying as to the particular facts that
`occurred.
` A. I got you, thank you. I understand
`now.
` Q. You witnessed a robbery, you
`witnessed something to that effect, okay. So
`you served as an expert witness, then, for
`Conoco; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the result of that case was it
`settled before trial?
` A. I believe so. I never heard, I
`never heard from them after that.
` Q. Now, let's go back to the patent
`disputes where you were the inventor. How many
`were there?
` A. How many disputes?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Five or six, I suppose, somewhere
`around there.
`
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`FMC vs. OSS
`IPR2016-00467
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` Q. And did these disputes involve where
`your patent was being asserted; is that right?
`Were you accusing someone of infringement of
`your patents?
` A. Yes, I was.
` Q. Can you list the party names?
` A. The parties were Seadrill, Global
`Marine, Stena, Maersk, Pacific, and there is
`another, I can't remember the name.
` Q. And your patents were owned by which
`company?
` A. Transocean.
` Q. Transocean. So it was Transocean
`versus all of those companies; is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And were they five separate cases?
` A. There were. They weren't combined.
` Q. And what was the result of those
`cases?
` A. Two of them are still pending, we
`won in two, two we settled and we lost in
`Norway.
` Q. One of those actions took place in
`Norway?
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Where did the other actions take
`place?
` A. Back up. There were two trials in
`Norway. There was a trial and then an appeal.
`The rest of them took -- here there was one
`action, in Europe and in the IPO.
` Q. So two are pending, two involved
`settlements; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And one you lost in Norway; is that
`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that is all you can recall for
`cases in which your patents are being asserted?
` A. We lost in Korea.
` Q. Now, in all of those cases where
`your patents were being asserted against other
`companies for infringement, were you --
` A. Excuse me, that is not correct. The
`Korean one was, was -- the patent -- the patent
`wasn't -- I'm not sure if we sued the shipyard
`or if -- I'm not sure about Korea. I'm not
`exactly -- I'm not sure of the workings on how
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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`that worked out.
` Q. But there was a case in Korea?
` A. There was an action in Korea.
` Q. Now, for all of those actions where
`your patent was being asserted, were you
`deposed?
` A. I was deposed for most of them, I
`can't say for all of them.
` Q. Were you ever -- was there ever an
`allegation made of an inequitable conduct, to
`your knowledge?
` A. There was in the Global Marine case.
` Q. And what was the charge there?
` A. They charged that I had somehow or
`another made a deal where I would benefit from
`the outcome or something. I'm not -- I wasn't
`very, very clear on, on exactly what the --
`what the issue was.
` Q. But the charge involved
`truthfulness; is that right?
` A. No, no, no.
` Q. What did the charge involve then?
` A. I just said I wasn't very clear
`exactly what it was. It involved somehow or
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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`another they were construing that I was going
`to benefit from the outcome and that was
`inequitable conduct or something. Judge Lake
`didn't think there was much to that, he shut it
`down pretty fast.
` Q. Were there any allegations in any of
`the cases in which you were involved as an
`inventor of untruthfulness or fraud?
` A. No, other than --
` Q. Other than the Global Marine case?
` A. But I guess there wasn't any
`allegations of untruthfulness or fraud.
` Q. Has the Patent Office taken any
`action against the patents based on inequitable
`conduct?
` A. No.
` Q. So your patents are still in force;
`is that right?
` A. They have lapsed.
` Q. They have lapsed?
` A. They have matured.
` Q. Now, in your 1990 dispute between
`ConocoPhillips and Reading & Bates, were you on
`the side of the patent owner or the defendant?
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` A. It wasn't my dispute and there
`wasn't an issue of a patent.
` Q. What was the -- what was the issue?
` A. The issue was they had key seated
`the wellhead and Conoco wanted the contractor
`to be responsible for that.
` Q. So it was a contract dispute?
` A. It was a -- I guess you could
`characterize it as that, yes.
` Q. Now, you said you served as an
`expert witness in that dispute; is that right?
` A. That is the way we, we characterized
`it.
` Q. What was your testimony, what was
`the substance of your testimony?
` A. I was -- I evaluated the procedures
`that Reading & Bates had employed in drilling
`the top hole for the well.
` Q. Now, in that case, was there ever a
`motion filed to exclude your testimony?
` A. As I said before, I don't know if
`there was a case. It was a dispute so I
`can't -- I don't know the answer to that.
` Q. So that dispute you don't know if it
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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`was in court or not?
` A. My recollection is that it didn't go
`that far. It was a contract dispute and they
`were, they were gearing up to, to fuss about
`it.
` Q. So it was pre-litigation, no
`litigation had been filed?
` A. Probably that is a better way to
`describe it. You were the one using case it
`wasn't me, so we got off on the wrong foot
`there.
` Q. No problem. Thank you for
`correcting me and please do so if I make
`mistakes during the rest of this deposition.
`Now, have you ever consulted for FMC before?
` A. I have not.
` Q. Have you ever heard of the patents
`that are the subject of your declarations
`before?
` MR. WINTERLE: Objection, vague.
` Q. Had you ever heard of the '076, the
`'893, the '435 or the '076 patent before?
` A. Not specifically, no.
` Q. Have you ever heard of Ian Donald or
`
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`John Reed?
` A. Not that I can recall. I may know
`John Reed, but not that I recall.
` Q. How do you know John Reed?
` A. It is just over 43 years working in
`the business I may have run across him, the
`same thing with Donald.
` Q. You may have met them before?
` A. Sorry?
` Q. You may have met them before?
` A. There is -- it could have been. I
`don't remember right now if I met them or not.
`I don't recall meeting them or not is the
`better way to say it.
` Q. Now, did you know of any of the
`inventors of the prior art that you wrote about
`in your declarations?
` A. I know John Bednar.
` Q. How do you know John Bednar?
` A. We worked together at BP Amoco.
` Q. At BP; is that right?
` A. BP Amoco.
` Q. Now, when you were working with
`John, did that overlap the time in which he
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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`filed for his patent application?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you work with him before he
`filed for his patent or after?
` A. It was after.
` Q. Were you aware of his patent when
`you were working with him?
` A. No.
` Q. So when was the first time that you
`came across the Bednar patent?
` A. When we were doing the declarations
`and petitions.
` Q. Have you ever heard of the Mars
`technology?
` A. I have, I have heard of it, yes.
` Q. When was the first time you heard of
`it?
` A. I can't recall that.
` Q. Can you ball-park it for a year at
`least? Was it recently, was it five years ago,
`was it 10 years ago?
` MR. WINTERLE: Object as to scope
` and relevance.
` Q. You can answer the question.
`
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` A. I don't remember. It was probably
`in the last five years maybe, maybe more.
` Q. In what context did you learn about
`the Mars technology?
` A. It probably would have been a
`presentation, either a presentation from the
`people on that or a review, just a review of
`the literature or review of the brochure.
` Q. So to the best of your recollection,
`you saw a presentation from OneSubSea?
` A. No, I didn't say that.
` Q. I'm asking?
` A. I can't -- I can't recall if I -- if
`there was a formal presentation or not.
` Q. Who was the party who gave you the
`presentation on Mars technology?
` A. I just said I can't remember if
`there was a presentation or not.
` Q. In what way did you receive
`information about the Mars technology?
` A. As I said a while ago I probably
`read it in the literature. There may have been
`a presentation, it may have been something of
`that sort.
`
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`IPR2016-00467
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` HERRMANN VOLUME 1 - 8/22/16
` Q. You can't recall?
` A. I can't recall. I rea

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