Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`
`Page 1
`
`**********************************
`BRADIUM TECHNOLOGIES LLC,
` Plaintiff
`vs. CA NO. 1:15-CV-00031-RGA
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
` Defendant
`**********************************
`
` DEPOSITION OF: WILLIAM R. MICHALSON, PH.D.
` CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING
` 255 State Street
` Boston, Massachusetts
` February 21, 2017 9:46 a.m.
`
` Darlene M. Coppola
` Registered Merit Reporter
` Certified Realtime Reporter
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
`Springfield, MA Worcester, MA Boston, MA Providence, RI
`
`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
`
`43ecd849-aa7e-4446-b2f8-c252b3486231
`
`1
`
`Exhibit 2078
`Bradium Technologies LLC - patent owner
`Microsoft Corporation - petitioner
`IPR2016-00449
`
`
`February 21, 2017
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
`
`Page 1
`
`**********************************
`BRADIUM TECHNOLOGIES LLC,
` Plaintiff
`vs. CA NO. 1:15-CV-00031-RGA
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION,
` Defendant
`**********************************
`
` DEPOSITION OF: WILLIAM R. MICHALSON, PH.D.
` CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING
` 255 State Street
` Boston, Massachusetts
` February 21, 2017 9:46 a.m.
`
` Darlene M. Coppola
` Registered Merit Reporter
` Certified Realtime Reporter
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
`Springfield, MA Worcester, MA Boston, MA Providence, RI
`
`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
`
`43ecd849-aa7e-4446-b2f8-c252b3486231
`
`1
`
`Exhibit 2078
`Bradium Technologies LLC - patent owner
`Microsoft Corporation - petitioner
`IPR2016-00449
`
`
`
`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 2
`
`APPEARANCES:
`Representing the Plaintiff:
` ANDREWS KURTH KENYON LLP
` One Broadway
` New York, NY 10004
` BY: CHRIS J. COULSON, ESQUIRE
` T 212.908.6409
` E-mail:
` chriscoulson@andrewskurthkenyon.com
`
`Representing the Defendant:
` PERKINS COIE LLP
` 11988 El Camino Real
` Suite 350
` San Diego, CA 92130
` BY: EVAN S. DAY, ESQUIRE
` T 858.720.5743
` F 858.720.5799
` E-mail: EDay@perkinscoie.com
`
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`Springfield, MA Worcester, MA Boston, MA Providence, RI
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`43ecd849-aa7e-4446-b2f8-c252b3486231
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 3
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` INDEX
` EXAMINATION
`Witness Name Page
`WILLIAM R. MICHALSON, PH.D.
` Direct By Mr. Coulson .............................. 4
` Cross By Mr. Day ................................... 76
` Redirect By Mr.Coulson ............................. 92
`
` EXHIBITS
`Exhibit Description Page
`
`No. 2073 Windows NT: Article About 36
` Windows NT by The Free
` Dictionary
`
`No. 2074 First Amended Complaint 48
`
`No. 2075 Deposition Transcript 60
`
`No. 2076 Declaration 62
`
`No. 2077 Deposition Transcript 71
`
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`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
`Springfield, MA Worcester, MA Boston, MA Providence, RI
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`43ecd849-aa7e-4446-b2f8-c252b3486231
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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` WILLIAM R. MICHALSON, PH.D.,
` a witness called for examination by
` counsel for the Plaintiff, having been
` satisfactorily identified by the production
` of his driver's license and being first duly
` sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
` testified as follows:
`
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Michalson.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Before we get started, I would just
` like to give you a chance to confirm, you
` have a couple of documents I have placed in
` front of you.
` I have Exhibit 1016, your
` declaration, one copy for the IPR 2016-00448
` and one copy for IPR 2016-00449?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I've also given you copies of
` Exhibit 1001, Patent No. 7,908,343 and
` Exhibit 1002, Patent No. 8,924,506.
` A. Correct.
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`43ecd849-aa7e-4446-b2f8-c252b3486231
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`
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 5
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` Q. And you can refer to those documents
` as you need to at any time during the
` testimony today.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is there any reason you can't
` give truthful and accurate testimony today?
` A. No.
` Q. And will you let me know if you don't
` understand a question that I ask you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I'm going to use your declaration in
` the 448 IPR. I believe they're identical or
` substantially identical.
` Can you give me a second to tell you
` the reference paragraph.
` A. Sure.
` Q. Paragraph 93 of Exhibit 1016 in the
` 448 IPR, will you please turn to that and
` review the paragraph.
` It's on Page 62.
` And I'll mention, I'm going to just
` be asking you some questions about 1030, but
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 6
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` I'll give you a chance to look at the
` paragraph, and then I'll give you
` Exhibit 1030.
` A. Okay.
` (Witness reviews document.)
` I've read Paragraph 93.
` Q. I'm now going to hand you a copy of
` what's previously been marked in the 448 IPR
` as Exhibit 1030.
` A. (Witness reviews document.)
` Okay.
` Q. In Paragraph 93, you refer to
` Exhibit 1030 as a 1999 Microsoft technical
` report.
` Do I have that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you would open up Exhibit 1030 to
` Page 2, please.
` Looking at the lower left-hand corner
` of Page 2 of Exhibit 1030.
` A. Yes.
` Q. The copyright date for Exhibit 1030
` is, in fact, 2000 and it states here that the
` article appeared in proceedings of the
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
`Springfield, MA Worcester, MA Boston, MA Providence, RI
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 7
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` ACM SIGMOD in May 2000.
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. That's what it says.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. And other than Exhibit 1030 itself,
` the face of the document, you don't have any
` other basis for dating the document.
` Do I have that right?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. (Witness reviews document.)
` The date that I cited is the date
` that is on the cover of this document.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I understand. I thought -- I thought
` that was the case.
` I wanted to confirm that other than
` the face of the document, Exhibit 1030, you
` don't have any other basis for providing a
` date for the document?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. That's -- that's correct.
` I used the June 1999 date that's on
` the face, and it says that it was revised
` February 2000. So I assumed that the
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 8
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` attached document is the revised document.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I would like to direct you back to
` Page 2 of Exhibit 1030.
` A. Okay.
` Q. We're going to be looking at column 2
` on the right, towards the bottom, and on to
` the next page for the next couple of
` questions.
` A. Okay.
` Q. You see a numbered list at the bottom
` right of Page 2 of Exhibit 1030?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The paragraph above the numbered list
` indicates, "The authors" --
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. -- "decided to build a website that
` serves aerial, satellite and topographic
` imagery for four reasons," right?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Well, you're paraphrasing, but it
` says that we settled on building a website
` that serves aerial, satellite and topographic
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 9
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` imagery, and then they cite four reasons for
` picking that kind of application.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I'm going to ask you about reason --
` you can read what you want. I'm going to ask
` you about Reason No. 4, which goes on to the
` next page. It covers Page 2 and Page 3.
` So, let me give you a second to read
` that and then I'll ask about it.
` A. Okay.
` (Witness reviews document.)
` Okay.
` Q. Reason 4 states that "The solution as
` we defined it, a wide area client server
` imagery database application stored in a
` commercially available SQL database system,
` had not been attempted before. Indeed, many
` people felt it was impossible without using
` an object-oriented or object-relational
` system."
` Do you see that?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` Scope.
` A. I see that text in this exhibit,
`
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
`
`Page 10
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` yes.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. So, Dr. Michalson, you referred to
` Exhibit 1030 in a couple of places in your
` declaration, but you didn't address -- you
` didn't address this reason for the author's
` building of the website serving aerial,
` satellite and topographic imagery, did you?
` MR. DAY: Object to form. And
` scope.
` A. Well, I don't recall offhand if I
` referred to that paragraph in Exhibit 1030 or
` not.
` I know I have several references to
` Exhibit 1030.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. Well, I didn't see a reference to
` that Reason 4, Dr. Michalson.
` I'll refer you in the deposition, I
` believe, to other portions of your
` declaration. If you see a reference or
` recall a reference to Reason 4 of
` Exhibit 1030, would you let me know?
` A. Sure.
`
`CATUOGNO COURT REPORTING & STENTEL TRANSCRIPTIONS
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`Electronically signed by Darlene Coppola (501-001-257-4048)
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 11
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` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I'm going to be handing you next
` what's been marked -- just a second,
` Dr. Michalson.
` We will keep out Exhibit 1030 for a
` minute.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And I'm going to be handing you
` another document, which is Exhibit 1004, the
` Reddy reference.
` Can you please turn in the Reddy
` reference to Paragraph 48. It's almost at
` the end.
` Let me give you a second to read
` that, and you're certainly welcome to look at
` Reddy generally as you like.
` A. (Witness reviews document.)
` Okay.
` Q. Now, you can look at that paragraph
` of Exhibit 1004 and also look at Page 3 of
` Exhibit 1030.
` A. I have Page 3 of Exhibit 1030.
` Q. A little bit below the section we
`
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 12
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` were discussing on Exhibit 1030, there's a
` Section 2, "Application Design."
` Are you with me at that section?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The header paragraph of Exhibit 1030
` states that "TerraServer is accessed via the
` Internet," and then it goes on in the third
` sentence to provide specifically that "The
` user interface is designed to function
` adequately over low speed (28.8 kbps)
` connections."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes, I see that.
` Q. I'd like to confirm, Dr. Michalson,
` that in Reddy, Paragraph 48, there is a
` reference to "PC connected to the Internet,"
` but there's no specific reference to a
` particular connection method or speed
` explicitly in Paragraph 48.
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. The Paragraph 48 of Reddy does not
` mention a particular speed of the PC -- of
` the connection to the Internet by the PC they
` reference, nor is there an explicit mention
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 13
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` of the speed at which the laptop
` communicates.
` But the last sentence where it
` discusses military planning, battle damage
` assessment, emergency relief efforts and
` other distributed time-critical conditions is
` implicitly discussing situations where you
` would not expect to have high bandwidth
` communications available.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. And your statement about the last
` sentence in Paragraph 48 is your analysis and
` opinion of the sentence?
` There's no explicit statement there
` regarding speed; is that right?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Well, I think that last -- that last
` sentence certainly makes it clear to a person
` of ordinary skill in the art that the system
` would be useful in situations where you don't
` have high-speed Internet connections and
` where -- and in situations where reliability
` of the Internet connection may be sporadic.
`
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 14
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` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I understand that's your opinion from
` reading your declaration.
` I would just like to confirm that
` that's not an explicit statement from the
` Reddy reference, Exhibit 1004.
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Well, I've worked in the area of
` public safety communications and digital
` communications for many years. And a
` statement like that, I think, very clearly
` communicates limited bandwidth situations to
` a person of ordinary skill in the art reading
` Reddy.
` MR. COULSON: Well, I would
` object as nonresponsive.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. I want to just confirm, there's no
` explicit statement about speed; is that
` correct?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` Asked and answered.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. In the last sentence of Paragraph 48
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 15
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` of Exhibit 1004.
` A. The statement that's in Exhibit 1004,
` I think, is very explicit to a person of
` ordinary skill in the art that this would be
` a useful system for low bandwidth
` communications.
` It doesn't provide a particular
` number for that bandwidth, but I think the
` statement's very clear when read through the
` eyes of a person with ordinary skill in the
` art.
` Q. And that's your interpretation of the
` sentence?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. That's what I believe that sentence
` communicates to a person of ordinary skill in
` the art.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. You can put aside Exhibit 1030.
` Actually, I want to confirm, 28.8
` kbps, can you explain the acronym "kbps"?
` A. That typically stands for kilobits
` per second.
` Q. I'd like to direct you to your
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 16
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` declaration again, Page 23.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Paragraph 39 on Page 23 of your
` declaration, Exhibit 1016, starts at Line 3
` and goes on to the next page at Line 9.
` Are we on the same page?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I'll give you a second to review the
` paragraph before I ask questions.
` I'm going to be asking you about some
` statements at the bottom of Page 23 and the
` top of Page 24 within the paragraph.
` A. Okay.
` (Witness reviews document.)
` I've read Paragraph 39.
` Q. Paragraph 39 of your declaration
` refers to Exhibit 2066, right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I'm going to hand you a copy of
` Exhibit 2066?
` If you'd like, please, take a moment
` and review the exhibit. As always, you can
` look at it as necessary after questions.
` A. (Witness reviews document.)
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 17
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` Okay.
` Q. We'll start at Page 1 of Exhibit
` 2066, and I'll refer at the same time to the
` bottom of Page 23 within Paragraph 39 of your
` declaration, Exhibit 1016.
` Okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Line 16 of your declaration,
` Paragraph 39, begins -- there's a sentence
` beginning, "For example."
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you quote at a couple of places
` from Exhibit 2066?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Let's look at the first quote.
` The first quotation -- text in
` quotation is, "Commercial off-the-shelf."
` A. Correct.
` Q. And it's citing to Page 1 of
` Exhibit 2066?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I see -- I'm going to tell you where
` I see -- I see "Commercial off-the-shelf" at
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 18
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` the end of the first paragraph.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you looking at the exhibit?
` A. Yes.
` Q. I don't want to --
` A. Yes, yes.
` Q. It looked like you were reading.
` Are you okay to proceed?
` A. I'm reading the last section of
` Paragraph 1.
` Q. Okay. So you state in your
` declaration that Exhibit 2066 explains that
` "SRI's Digital Earth proposal is to extend
` TerraVision functionality to commercial
` off-the-shelf software."
` Right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The document where you're citing to
` in Exhibit 2066 states that, "However, it is
` also our intention that these data be
` accessible to a wide range of users, although
` perhaps with less functionality, using
` standard and freely available commercial
` off-the-shelf COTS software on personal
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 19
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` computers."
` Right?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Well, the last sentence of the first
` paragraph on Page 1 reads, "However, it is
` also our intention that these data be
` accessible to a wide range of users, although
` perhaps of less functionality, using standard
` and freely available commercial
` of-the-shelf," it should be "off-the-shelf
` (COTS) software on personal computers."
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. So, in your declaration, you didn't
` mention the part about less functionality,
` did you?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Well, it says, "perhaps with less
` functionality."
` But the important piece there is that
` the motivation of this project was to exploit
` commercial off-the-shelf software and
` personal computers.
` So this system is being written so
` that graphic images, terrain data, et cetera,
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 20
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` can be accessed using freely available
` commercial off-the-shelf software. That was
` one of the goals.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. But my question is a very simple one.
` In your declaration, you didn't
` mention the sentence you're quoting from that
` states that -- that includes -- that there
` would be less -- perhaps be less
` functionality for that more widely accessible
` data?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. I think that all -- I guess the short
` answer is I did not reference that portion of
` the sentence in this Paragraph 39 of my
` declaration.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. Let me move on to Page 3 of
` Exhibit 2066.
` So starting again with your
` declaration, Exhibit 1016, the bottom of
` Page 23, the next portions you quote from
` Exhibit 2066 are, "wide cross-section of
` users," and -- I'm sorry, let me repeat that.
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 21
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` Strike that.
` On Exhibit 1016, the next places you
` quote from for Exhibit 2066 are the text,
` "open solutions" and "wide cross-section of
` users," right?
` A. And also "directly with Internet
` browser software."
` Q. Certainly. And we'll come to that
` one.
` But first I'd like to ask you about
` "open solutions" and "wide cross-section of
` users."
` Do you see where you're quoting
` that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So if you could please look at the
` bottom of Page 3 of Exhibit 2066.
` I see the text, "Open solutions" and
` "wide cross-range" -- excuse me.
` I see the text "open solutions" and
` "wide cross-section of users" in the last
` paragraph?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And turning to Page 4 of 2066, I see
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 22
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` on Line 6 of Exhibit 2066, Page 4, the text,
` "Directly with Internet browser software."
` A. Are you referring to the sentence
` that reads "VRML support will continue to be
` integrated directly with Internet browser
` software"?
` Q. Yes, I am.
` A. Okay. I see that.
` Q. I have some questions, then, about
` Page 3 and 4 of Exhibit 2066.
` A. Okay.
` Q. So, Page 3, that section -- the text
` you quote, the last sentence of that
` paragraph states that it's done through the
` adopting of various open standards, such as
` VRML, right?
` MR. DAY: Object to the form.
` A. It says, "this is done." So, they're
` referring to the previous sentences in 2066.
` But yes, that last sentence reads,
` "This is done through the adoption of various
` open standards, such as VRML."
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. And it's the previous sentences,
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 23
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` those sentences from which you quoted?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. Yes.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. Can you turn to Page 4, exhibit 2066.
` A. Okay.
` Q. The line prior to your section you
` quoted in 2066, "directly with Internet
` browser software," that refers to -- it
` states, "In fact, Windows 98 was shipped with
` a preinstalled VRML plug-in," and it
` continues that VRML support -- it continues
` that "The authors hope that VRML support will
` continue to be integrated directly with
` Internet browser software," right?
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. What exactly is the question?
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. The portion you quote in -- I'll try
` to make it simpler.
` The portion that you quote, "Directly
` with Internet browser software," at the top
` of Page 4 in Exhibit 2066.
` A. I see that.
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 24
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` Q. So that's referring to -- that
` sentence is referring to the plug-in that's
` preinstalled for VRML with Windows 98
` Internet Explorer?
` A. Well, among other things.
` I mean, Windows 98 being shipped with
` preinstalled VRML plug-in for Internet
` Explorer version 4 is an example, and then it
` goes on to say that "It is hoped in the
` future that VRML support will continue to be
` integrated directly with Internet browser
` software."
` So, Internet browser software is more
` generic than the specific example they cite
` earlier in the sentence.
` Because you had several other
` browsers that were well known at the time of
` IE4.
` Q. I see Netscape Communicator and
` Internet Explorer, for example, in that
` paragraph.
` A. Sure. Those were other browsers.
` Q. So, your declaration states, in the
` sentence we've been looking at that "It's SRI
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 25
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` Digital Earth's proposal to extend
` TerraVision functionality and integrate
` support directly -- 'directly with Internet
` browser software.'"
` But, in fact, Exhibit 2066 is
` referring in that quoted portion to VRML
` support that's available generically in
` Internet browsers.
` MR. DAY: Object to form.
` A. I guess I don't -- I don't understand
` your question.
` BY MR. COULSON:
` Q. Well, let me be clear.
` Exhibit 2066, the last sentence of
` the paragraph we've been looking at from
` which you quoted, is indicating that users
` need not download any supplemental software
` to view Digital Earth. A user could just
` direct an Internet browser to a location --
` the appropriate location and instantly begin
` accessing the facilities, right?
` It's not -- well, do I have that
` right?
` A. Well, frankly, I really don't
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 26
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` understand what you're trying to say.
` The 1060 -- excuse me.
` MR. COULSON: 2066?
` A. -- the 2066 document, at the top of
` Page 4 says, "By employing VRML as the file
` format to represent the multi-resolution
` structure of Digital Earth, we allow for the
` possibility of users interacting with it
` using standard off-the-shelf VRML browser
` software."
` So, what that's saying is that the
` data structures that were adopted for Digital
` Earth and for the system that they're
` building, that SRI is calling Digital Earth,
` it's -- were being designed such that they
` would be compatible with browsers that are
` capable of interpreting VRML.
` And then it gives some examples that
` there are Netscape plug-ins. There are
` plug-ins for Internet Explorer. And they
` cite a specific example of one operating
` system that was shipped with the plug-in
` preinstalled.
` So I'm not understanding what
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`Michalson, Ph.D., William R.
`February 21, 2017
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`Page 27
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` you're -- what your question really is.
` Q. Well, I think that was helpful.
` I want to confirm one more thing in
` this paragraph that I didn't hear -- I'm not
` sure if you answered
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