Page 1
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` - - - - -
`
`PLAID TECHNOLOGIES, INC., )
` ) Case IPR2016-00273
`Plaintiff, ) Patent 6,317,783 B1
` )
`vs. )
` )
`YODLEE, INC., )
` )
`Defendant. )
`
` - - - - -
`
` DEPOSITION OF TODD MOWRY, Ph.D.
`
` Thursday, August 25, 2016, 9:03 a.m.
`
` PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Reported by: Marjorie Peters
`
`Job NO.: 16787
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`1
`
`YODLEE 2005
`PLAID TECHNOLOGIES V. YODLEE, INC.
`IPR2016-00273
`
`
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` - - - - -
`
`PLAID TECHNOLOGIES, INC., )
` ) Case IPR2016-00273
`Plaintiff, ) Patent 6,317,783 B1
` )
`vs. )
` )
`YODLEE, INC., )
` )
`Defendant. )
`
` - - - - -
`
` DEPOSITION OF TODD MOWRY, Ph.D.
`
` Thursday, August 25, 2016, 9:03 a.m.
`
` PITTSBURGH, PENNSYLVANIA
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`Reported by: Marjorie Peters
`
`Job NO.: 16787
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`1
`
`YODLEE 2005
`PLAID TECHNOLOGIES V. YODLEE, INC.
`IPR2016-00273
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
` DEPOSITION OF TODD MOWRY, Ph.D.,
`
`a witness herein, called by the Defendant for
`
`examination, taken pursuant to Notice, by and before
`
`Marjorie Peters, a Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`
`Realtime Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
`
`Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at THE WEBB LAW FIRM, One
`
`Gateway Center, Ft. Duquesne Blvd., Pittsburgh,
`
`Pennsylvania, on Thursday, August 25, 2016, at 9:03 a.m.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`2
`
`
`
`
`
`Page 3
`
` - - - -
`
`COUNSEL PRESENT:
`
`For the Plaintiff:
`
`Brian M. Buroker, Esq.
`GIBSON DUNN
`1050 Connecticut Avenue, NW
`Washington, DC 20036-5306
`T: 202-955-8541
`bburoker@gibsondunn.com
`
`For the Defendant:
`
`Matt McCullough, Esq.
`FISH & RICHARDSON
`500 Arguello Street
`Suite 500
`Redwood City, CA 94061
`T: 650-839-5109
`mccullough@fr.com
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`1
`
`2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`3
`
`
`
`Page 4
`
` I N D E X
`
`EXAMINATION PAGE
`
`TODD MOWRY
`
` BY MR. MCCULLOUGH 5
`
` BY MR. BUROKER 193
`
` BY MR. MCCULLOUGH 203
`
`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
` 1001 '783 patent 41
`
` 2004 Mowry Declaration 50
`
` 1008 Mowry IPR Declaration 25
`
` 1005 Patent 5,892,905 79
`
` 1004 Sugiarto 147
`
` 1006 Chow 180
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`4
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` TODD MOWRY, Ph.D.,
`
`a witness, having been first duly sworn, was examined and
`
`Page 5
`
`testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. MCCULLOUGH:
`
` Q. All right. Dr. Mowry, is it?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Can you please state your name for the record?
`
` A. It's Todd Mowry.
`
` Q. And you live here in Pittsburgh?
`
` A. Yes. That's right.
`
` Q. Have you been deposed before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. How many times?
`
` A. I believe six times.
`
` Q. Were they all as an expert?
`
` A. Yes. That's right.
`
` Q. In patent cases?
`
` A. Um, all but one of them was a patent case.
`
`The other case was a contract dispute case.
`
` Q. Have you provided testimony at trial before?
`
` A. Yes, I have.
`
` Q. Okay. Well, I'm sure you're familiar with
`
`some of the basic rules, but I will go through them again
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`5
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`today. So, you understand you're under oath here today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Is there any reason you cannot testify
`
`Page 6
`
`truthfully today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. If that ever changes, you will let me know
`
`immediately?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. If I ever ask a question you don't understand,
`
`do you agree to let me know?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So, if you answer my questions, it's fair for
`
`me to assume you understood the question?
`
` A. To the best of my ability.
`
` Q. And if you ever want to take back, modify, add
`
`to or change any of your answers, let me know and I will
`
`give you time.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And we'll plan to take a break roughly every
`
`hour; but anytime you need a break, just let me know.
`
`The only thing I'll ask is that you answer any pending
`
`question.
`
` A. Sure. Yes.
`
` Q. All right. So, you've been retained as an
`
`expert by Plaid in this case; correct?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`6
`
`
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What is your hourly rate?
`
` A. $600 an hour.
`
` Q. How much have you invoiced so far?
`
`Approximately.
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` Q. Have you --
`
` MR. BUROKER: There's multiple matters.
`
`I'm not trying to -- are you talking about this IPR?
`
` Q. Yes. Let's start. So, on this IPR in
`
`particular, approximately how much have you invoiced?
`
` A. Around 20 -- $15 to $20,000, somewhere in that
`
`ballpark.
`
` Q. You're also working for Plaid on a litigation
`
`between Plaid and Yodlee; correct?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. And you've also been retained as an expert by
`
`Plaid in several other CBM and IPR petitions; correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. In total across all of the -- does that
`
`describe all of the Plaid/Yodlee cases or matters that
`
`you have been retained as an expert to work for?
`
` A. I believe so, yes.
`
` Q. In total across all of the Plaid/Yodlee
`
`matters, approximately how much have you invoiced?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`7
`
`
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection. Outside the scope
`
`of his declaration, but you may answer.
`
` A. Roughly $160,000. Something like that.
`
` Q. What did you do to prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
` A. I reviewed my declaration, and the materials
`
`that I cited in the declaration.
`
` Q. Did you speak to anyone or meet with anyone?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Who did you meet with?
`
` A. I met with Brian Buroker, and I spoke with
`
`other attorneys from Gibson Dunn.
`
` Q. How long did you meet with counsel?
`
` A. Approximately eight to ten hours.
`
` Q. You said I believe you reviewed your
`
`declaration?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did you review any other documents in
`
`preparation for your deposition?
`
` A. I reviewed several of the documents that I
`
`cited in the declaration.
`
` Q. Anything else?
`
` A. Not that I can think of.
`
` Q. So, I want to start and work through some of
`
`your educational and academic background.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`8
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` So, you have a BS in electrical engineering
`
`Page 9
`
`from the University of Virginia?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And then a Master's and Ph.D. in Electrical
`
`Engineering from Stanford?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Over the years you've held a number of
`
`academic positions, work employment; is that correct?
`
` A. Well, I've been a Professor at two
`
`universities. At the University of Toronto and at
`
`Carnegie Mellon University.
`
` Q. And you were a Professor at Toronto from 1993
`
`to 1997?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And then you've been a Professor at Carnegie
`
`Mellon since 1997?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. At the University of Toronto, can you describe
`
`what work -- what did you do there, teaching,
`
`researching?
`
` A. Yes. I did research, and I taught classes,
`
`and I did service work, the usual thing that tenure track
`
`Professors do.
`
` Q. What was the subject of your research when you
`
`were at the University of Toronto?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`9
`
`
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. It was a number of different systems-related
`
`topics, including things like computer architecture,
`
`compilers, operating systems, network distributing
`
`systems, those types of things. Parallel processing,
`
`also.
`
` Q. You said "systems related"; what does that
`
`mean?
`
` A. Within computer science, systems refers to one
`
`of the major sub-areas of computer science having to do
`
`with the design of computers and the software that runs
`
`on them, as opposed to, say, theory or artificial
`
`intelligence. Those are two other names of areas of
`
`computer science.
`
` Q. Your teaching at Toronto, was it related to
`
`similar systems-related topics?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did you do any teaching or research that was
`
`not systems related?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, vague.
`
` A. Systems is very broad, so I think that
`
`everything fell within that scope, yes. When I say yes,
`
`I mean everything fell -- so, I guess your original
`
`question was I teach things that were not systems
`
`related. So, the answer is no to that. I was saying yes
`
`to my own characterization of everything was within
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`10
`
`
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`systems; but to summarize that, no, is the answer to your
`
`question.
`
` Q. Okay. During your time at Toronto, did any of
`
`your work relate to designing websites?
`
` A. Trying to remember -- well, that wasn't
`
`something we were doing research on at that time. I
`
`subsequently did -- had a research project at Carnegie
`
`Mellon that was related to -- that was focussed on web
`
`content and delivering web content.
`
` Q. Okay. We'll get -- I'll talk to you about the
`
`Carnegie Mellon in a second, but let's stick with Toronto
`
`for a minute. So when you were at Toronto, did you do
`
`any work related to retrieving information from a website
`
`or over the internet?
`
` A. Yes, I did do work related to retrieving
`
`information over the internet. I had some distributed
`
`systems projects or programs where solving -- we were --
`
`had applications that were running on a distributed
`
`system and they were passing information back and forth
`
`to do that.
`
` Q. What information were they passing back and
`
`forth?
`
` A. Well, these were parallel programs so, it was
`
`whatever information the application needed. We
`
`distributed the data for the application across the
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`11
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`different machines, and then the exact information was
`
`specific to the application.
`
` Q. Now, at Carnegie Mellon, since you've been a
`
`Professor there, what has been the subject of your
`
`research?
`
` A. It's, again, a broad set of topics within
`
`computer systems, including the same things I mentioned
`
`before; the design of computer hardware, compilers,
`
`operating systems, databases, distributed systems,
`
`other -- I had a project specifically on web content
`
`delivery. I also had a project on distributed robotics
`
`system.
`
` Q. Now, what was this project on web content
`
`delivery?
`
` A. The -- we called the project S3 eventually,
`
`but the idea was that while it's easy to cache static web
`
`content, it is very difficult to cache dynamic web
`
`content; so we came up with a new design for caching
`
`dynamic web content which involved lots of different
`
`pieces, including aspects of databases and compilers and
`
`distributed systems.
`
` Q. What was the time frame of this S3 project?
`
` A. It began shortly after I arrived at Carnegie
`
`Mellon. I don't remember exact dates off the top of my
`
`head. But probably 1998 through the mid-2000s. I think
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`12
`
`
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`it's something like that.
`
` Q. Did the S3 project lead to any sort of product
`
`that was sold or distributed in any way?
`
` A. We built a prototype of our system. We did
`
`turn it into a product, and I'm not sure whether other
`
`companies adopted the -- we published papers on what we
`
`did so companies may have adopted our technology into
`
`their products, but I'm not aware of that offhand.
`
` Q. You said you were caching dynamic web content?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Where was this -- was this -- yeah, where was
`
`this content located?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. Well, let's see. The idea was that normally
`
`without any web -- without any form of web caching, when
`
`you access a web page, you have to go to the actual
`
`server to get the content. The idea of a cache is that
`
`it's another -- a different website that sits effectively
`
`in between the browser, the client's machine, and the web
`
`server, and it keeps a copy of some of the content; and
`
`the challenge with dynamic web content is that content
`
`changes. So, it's a technical concern is how you keep
`
`that cached copy up-to-date because the underlying
`
`information may change on the web server, and you don't
`
`want to be delivering stale information.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`13
`
`
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Were you able to cache content from all types
`
`of websites, or did this only work on certain websites?
`
` A. Well, at the time people -- well, our goal was
`
`to encompass -- to be applicable to any type of website
`
`that we were aware of at that time. So, I don't think it
`
`was people -- at that time people generally characterized
`
`websites as either having static or dynamic content, and
`
`I think that what we were doing captured all of those
`
`things.
`
` Q. Was this web content delivery project, the S3
`
`project, was this your first experience working on a
`
`project to retrieve information over the internet?
`
` A. No.
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form. Go ahead.
`
` Q. What prior experience do you have?
`
` A. Well, as I mentioned before, among other
`
`things, at Toronto, I mean, just as a Professor at
`
`Toronto, we had another project where we were -- we had a
`
`distributed system that was running parallel
`
`applications, and it was passing information back and
`
`forth in order to -- in order to execute the applications
`
`correctly.
`
` Q. Yes. Was that distributed systems project at
`
`Toronto your first experience with retrieving information
`
`over the internet?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`14
`
`
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. What prior experience did you have?
`
` A. Well, as a graduate student, I took a number
`
`of courses, and even as an undergraduate, that involved
`
`distributed systems, and we did class projects where we
`
`were retrieving information over the internet, and that
`
`was something that we did regularly. And in my research,
`
`that was something that I did.
`
` Q. Did any of these projects, the S3 distributed
`
`systems project at Toronto or any of the other classes
`
`you're talking about, involve logging in or
`
`authenticating as a particular user?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Which ones?
`
` A. I think that many of them did. For S3, you
`
`have to be authenticated in many cases to access the
`
`dynamic content, and I don't remember off the top of my
`
`head how we handled this for the distributed systems
`
`projects in Toronto. You always have to be authenticated
`
`in some way to access the information, but I don't
`
`remember exactly how we did that.
`
` Q. For the S3 project, you said you have to be
`
`authenticated to access the dynamic content. Was that
`
`something that the S3 project did, or was that something
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`15
`
`
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`a user would do?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. Well, our research focus was not on the
`
`authentication part. We were focusing on different
`
`aspects of it. So, I guess what I would say is that was
`
`not our main focus in the project.
`
` Q. Was it a feature of the S3 system at all; was
`
`the S3 system itself capable of authenticating as a
`
`particular user?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Same objection.
`
` A. Well, a person would enter -- I mean, I guess
`
`the system can't do it without any interaction with the
`
`user, because the system doesn't know what the person's
`
`credentials are, unless they're provided. So, a user had
`
`to provide a user name and password at some point. But
`
`like I said, that was not -- we were building on top of
`
`other infrastructures and we were not trying to innovate
`
`in that particular area. It was just something that
`
`people knew how to do in distributed systems.
`
` Q. And in the distributed systems project at
`
`Toronto, what sort of authentication was there?
`
` A. Well, these were UNIX type systems, so, it was
`
`just the usual user name and password log-ins.
`
` Q. When you say UNIX type systems, are you
`
`referring to the actual computers within the system?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`16
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. UNIX is -- well, I'm referring to the
`
`operating system that was running on the computers.
`
` Q. Was there any sort of authentication happening
`
`over the internet in the Toronto Distributed Systems
`
`Page 17
`
`project?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What sort of authentication?
`
` A. Well, as I mentioned, these were UNIX
`
`machines; and in order to access the UNIX machine, it has
`
`a user name and password that you need to enter in order
`
`to gain access to the machine. So, we don't just -- it
`
`doesn't just let random people access things over the
`
`internet.
`
` Q. You've also held a number of positions either
`
`employed in industry or consulting with industry;
`
`correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So, am I correct that the earliest one of
`
`those positions was as a computer architect with Silicon
`
`Graphics from 1989 to 1993?
`
` A. That's the youngest -- I think that's the
`
`earliest thing that I list on my resume. I had some
`
`summer jobs before that, but that was the first thing
`
`since I -- after I graduated from getting my bachelor's
`
`degree.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`17
`
`
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. What work did you do at Silicon Graphics?
`
` A. I was in a group that was called the
`
`architecture group, and we were doing performance
`
`modelling of the current microprocessors that we were
`
`designing and selling, and we were also thinking about
`
`features for future microprocessors.
`
` Q. What microprocessors were you working on; did
`
`they have any particular names?
`
` A. Yes. The company that I worked at originally
`
`was called MIPS Technologies, and it was acquired by
`
`Silicon Graphics after a few years. So, it was a startup
`
`company that got bought by Silicon Graphics. And the
`
`product name -- the brand name was MIPS, M-I-P-S, and I
`
`worked on projects including the R4,000 processor and the
`
`R10,000 processor and a couple of others.
`
` Q. Were these processors designed to run a single
`
`computer, or were they doing something else?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. They were designed to run either as the sole
`
`processor in a computer, or as one of a collection of
`
`processors in a computer. So, they were designed to run
`
`in parallel with other processors.
`
` I'm not sure if that's what you're asking,
`
`but...
`
` Q. Did any of your work at Silicon Graphics
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`18
`
`
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`relate to designing website interfaces?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. No. That was not a focus of what I was doing
`
`there.
`
` Q. Did any of your work at Silicon Graphics
`
`relate to automatically retrieving information from a
`
`website, or over the internet?
`
` A. At Silicon Graphics, no, that's not what I was
`
`working on there.
`
` Q. It looks like you also continued consulting
`
`with Silicon Graphics for a few years after you got your
`
`Ph.D.; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Was this consulting work related to the same
`
`R4,000 and R10,000 or did you work on anything else?
`
` A. It was mostly about that, yes.
`
` Q. You say "mostly about that." Was there
`
`anything else?
`
` A. Well, we were brainstorming features for other
`
`products, I believe; but those were the main focus of
`
`what I was doing was the R10,000 at that point.
`
` Q. Did any of your consulting work with Silicon
`
`Graphics relate to designing website interfaces?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Did any of your consulting work with Silicon
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`19
`
`
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Graphics relate to designing systems to automatically
`
`retrieve information from a website or over the internet?
`
` A. Well, my focus there was on making the
`
`processor faster. And the processors were used in
`
`parallel systems, and they were part of a computer that
`
`could be doing those things, but that was not the focus
`
`of what I was working on.
`
` Q. Looks like your next position was as a
`
`visiting scientist at IBM from about 1996 to 2004?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What did you do as a visiting scientist at
`
`IBM?
`
` A. I was collaborating with people, developers at
`
`IBM in their compiler group and in their database group;
`
`and we were thinking about ways that we could do
`
`technology transfer of my research into their products.
`
` Q. Did any of your work at IBM relate to
`
`designing a website interface?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. That was not -- I don't recall -- I mean it's
`
`possible that we did that at some point, but that was not
`
`a focus of what I was doing there.
`
` Q. Did any of your work at IBM relate to
`
`retrieving information from a website or over the
`
`internet?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`20
`
`
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What was that?
`
` A. Well, I was talking with them about the work
`
`that we were doing on the distributed systems project,
`
`and that involved retrieving information over the
`
`internet.
`
` Q. Was your distributed systems project
`
`incorporated into any IBM product?
`
` A. I don't know.
`
` Q. It looks like from 1996 to 2004, you were also
`
`a member of the technical advisory board at Sandcraft?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What is Sandcraft?
`
` A. It was a microprocessor startup that was
`
`designing new processors to sell.
`
` Q. What did you do as a member of the technical
`
`advisory board?
`
` A. I helped them answer technical questions about
`
`architecture and compilers, and we also had regular
`
`meetings where they would, you know, ask us technical
`
`questions. There were other people on the board and we
`
`would try to help them do technical problem solving.
`
` Q. Did you work on any particular products when
`
`you were at Sandcraft?
`
` A. I don't remember the names of the products. I
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`21
`
`
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`mean, we -- I was trying to help them out with all of
`
`their products, but I just don't remember off the top of
`
`my head what the names of the products were. They sold a
`
`number of different processors.
`
` Q. Were all of their products processors?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did any of your work at Sandcraft relate to
`
`designing the website interface?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. It may have. We had simulators and things
`
`where I think we may -- we had a website interface for
`
`interacting with them. I don't, I don't recall exactly.
`
`That was not a major focus of what I was doing but I
`
`think that that may have been part of it.
`
` Q. Did any of your work at Sandcraft relate to
`
`retrieving information from the website, or over the
`
`internet?
`
` A. A focus of the products was -- yes, because
`
`their products were designed to go into embedded systems.
`
`So, things like printers or set-top boxes, and those
`
`things communicated over the internet regularly.
`
` Q. Next it looks like you worked at Intel first
`
`as the director of the Intel research Pittsburgh lab, and
`
`then as a research adviser; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`22
`
`
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. And what did work on at Intel?
`
` A. When I was the director of the lab, I had both
`
`an administrative role in that I was the manager of the
`
`20 or so researchers in the lab, and I was also a
`
`technical -- setting the technical direction of the
`
`several research projects in the lab. So, I was
`
`collaborating with the researchers on their projects, and
`
`our projects also involve collaborating with students and
`
`faculty at Carnegie Mellon and other universities.
`
` Q. What did you do as a research adviser at
`
`Intel?
`
` A. Basically, I was no longer an administrator; I
`
`was just a technical collaborator. So, I continued to
`
`work on those research projects, but I was not a manager
`
`anymore at that point. My main -- I was just doing that
`
`part-time because I was then back at the University full
`
`time.
`
` Q. Did any of your research projects at Intel
`
`relate to designing website interfaces?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form. Go ahead.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Can you describe these projects?
`
` A. Yes. We had one project called Diamond, I
`
`believe is what it was called. That may not be the right
`
`name. But the idea was to do -- to search through image
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`23
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`data by content. So, we had a web interface where you
`
`would try to describe an -- a piece of an image that you
`
`were looking for and then it would go search images by
`
`content, and then there was a -- that had a web
`
`interface, and a substantial amount of system support
`
`behind it, and that involved communicating across the
`
`internet to other servers that actually had the image
`
`data.
`
` Another project was called Irisnet where we
`
`were doing searching of web cameras over the internet.
`
`So, we had a web interface where you could do things like
`
`look for open available parking spaces; and it would --
`
`using a distributed set of web cameras out in the field,
`
`it would look for available parking spaces or other types
`
`of queries like that.
`
` Those are two that come to mind. I think that
`
`nearly all of our -- most all of our projects there
`
`involved web interfaces.
`
` Q. You also have a number of patents, five, I
`
`believe; is that correct?
`
` A. That sounds correct. I think it sounds like
`
`the correct number.
`
` Q. And they -- these patents relate to computer
`
`architecture, it looks like.
`
` A. Yes. I think one of them is related to
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`24
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`databases, but I think that most of them are about
`
`computer architecture.
`
` Q. Do any of your patents relate to designing
`
`website interfaces?
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. Actually, I forget what the database patent
`
`focussed on exactly. It may or may not have. The
`
`architecture ones did not.
`
` Q. So, what do you recall about the patent that
`
`you think relates to databases? Can you tell me some
`
`more about that? I'm not sure which patent you're
`
`referring to there.
`
` MR. BUROKER: Objection, form.
`
` A. Well, actually, if I look might CV again, I
`
`could tell you quickly.
`
` Q. That's easy.
`
` MR. BUROKER: Now, in the IPR.
`
`(Off the record.)
`
`(Previously marked Exhibit 1008 was presented.)
`
`BY MR. MCCULLOUGH:
`
` Q. All right. So, I've handed you Exhibit 1008.
`
`Do you recognize that as your declaration in this IPR?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. That includes your CV at the end?
`
` A. Yes.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`25
`
`
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. So, can you take a look at your patents there
`
`and tell me which one you think relates to databases.
`
` A. That's the one with Shimin Chen and Phillip
`
`Gibbons.
`
` MR. BUROKER: To make it easier for her,
`
`can you spell Shimin Chen.
`
` A. S-H-I-M-I-N, last name is C-H-E-N. And
`
`Gibbons, G-I-B-B-O-N-S. So, that's the 6,772,179 patent.
`
` Q. Can you turn to Paragraph 19 of your
`
`declaration.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. You say in here, "I considered a number of
`
`factors including how web-based information retrieval
`
`systems were designed and implemented at or before that
`
`time" -- with that time referring to October, 1998.
`
` Did I read that all correctly.
`
` A. Yes. That's what it says here.
`
` Q. What web -- what do you mean by "web-based
`
`information retrieval systems"?
`
` A. Well, I mean web-based information is things
`
`stored on the web, so accessing information from
`
`websites. And information retrieval is just a term that
`
`we use in computer science to refer to collecting
`
`information. So, basically it means pulling information
`
`off of the web.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 -- Depo@transperfect.com
`
`26
`
`
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. What -- can you list for me all of the
`
`web-based information retrieval systems you are aware of
`
`that existed at or before October 1998?
`
` A. No, I don't think I could possibly remember
`
`all of that.
`
` Q. Well, which web-based information retrieval
`
`systems that existed at or before October 1998 did you
`
`rely on in your declaration?
`
` Sorry. Let me rephrase that question. It was
`
`unclear.
`
` You say here, you considered a number of
`
`web-based information retrieval systems. Which ones were
`
`you referring to here when you say you considered them?
`
` A. Actually, I think what it says here is I
`
`considered how web-based information systems were
`
`designed and implemented at that time. So, what I was
`
`referring to is the technology of how people build those
`
`types of things. I don't think I was saying that I took
`
`a specific system and used that as the basis of my
`
`opinion, but rather, that I understood how people
`
`designed these things.
`
` Q. Was your understanding of how people design
`
`these things based upon any particular web-based
`
`information retrieval systems?
`
` A. No, I don't -- I mean, I -- not only had done
`
`TransPerfect Le
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
