` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`________________
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`________________
`J KYLE BASS and ERICH SPANGENBERG
`Petitioners
`v.
`FRESENIUS KABI USA, LLC
`Patent Owner
`U.S. Patent 8,476,010
`________________
`Inter Partes Review No.: IPR2016-00254
`JOB NO. 115107
`DEPOSITION OF STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D., a
`witness called by counsel for the Petitioners, taken
`pursuant to the 37 C.F.R. ยง 42.53, the Federal Rules
`of Civil Procedure and the Scheduling Order entered in
`the above-captioned matter, before Laurie J. Driggers,
`Certified Court Reporter, Registered Professional
`Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified
`LiveNote Reporter, Certified eDepoze Reporter and
`Notary Public, in and for the Commonwealth of
`Massachusetts, at Goodwin Procter LLP, 100 Northern
`Avenue, Boston, Massachusetts, on Friday, November 4,
`2016, commencing at 9:00 a.m.
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`Bass and Spangenberg
`IPR2016-00254
`Exhibit 1043
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`
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`Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
` Gregory Gonsalves, Ph.D., Esquire
` THE GONSALVES LAW FIRM
` 2216 Beacon Lane
` Falls Church, Virginia 22043
` COUNSEL FOR THE PETITIONER
`
` Samuel Sherry, Esquire
` Daryl Wiesen, Esquire
` John Bennett, Esquire
` GOODWIN PROCTER
` 100 Northern Avenue
` Boston, Massachusetts 02210
` COUNSEL FOR THE PATENT OWNER
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` I N D E X
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`DEPONENT: STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
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`Page 3
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`EXAMINATION PAGE
`(BY ATTORNEY GONSALVES) 4
`(BY ATTORNEY SHERRY) 93
`
` E X H I B I T S
`NO. PAGE
` (No exhibits marked.)
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
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`Page 4
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` having been satisfactorily identified and
`duly sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
` BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. Doctor Davis, could you please state your
`full name and address for the record?
` A. Stanley Stewart, S-T-E-W-A-R-T, Davis,
`D-A-V-I-S, 19 Cavendish Crescent North, Nottingham in
`the United Kingdom.
` Q. And do you understand that you are under oath
`to testify truthfully?
` A. I do.
` Q. Is there anything that would prevent you from
`testifying truthfully today?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you taking any medication that would
`interfere with your ability to testify accurately?
` A. No.
` Q. Doctor Davis, what do you understand your
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`role to be in this matter?
` A. In the matter today or the matter generally?
`I shouldn't ask you questions, but for clarification.
` Q. Well, do you understand that you're here for
`a deposition for what's called an inter partes review?
` A. Yes, I understand that.
` Q. And what do you understand your role to be in
`this inter partes review?
` A. To provide expertise as -- as an expert in
`this case from my knowledge of emulsions and emulsion
`systems.
` Q. Will you be able to answer my questions
`objectively without advocating for either party?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I assume that you have reviewed your
`declaration before coming to this deposition; is that
`correct?
` A. I have.
` Q. Is there anything -- why don't I give you a
`copy of your declaration.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. Here you go (indicating).
` MR. GONSALVES: That's for you
`(indicating).
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` MR. SHERRY: Thanks.
` BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. Doctor Davis, is there anything that you
`would like to clarify or correct in your declaration?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) There are just
`three things that I would like to clarify and change.
` THE DEPONENT: And I think you have the
`list of those, do you not? If you take --
` BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. Well, I think that he's not supposed to help
`you, so.
` A. Well, it was just -- I was -- well, I'm not
`meant to write things down and bring things in, am I,
`so that makes it slightly more difficult.
` There was in one place where I had got the
`word "large" and it should be small, but let's see if
`we can find that if --
` Q. You can take your time. I don't want to rush
`you.
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) It was to do
`with particle size but I -- without doing a search on
`the document, we'll have to wait until we get to that
`particular part --
` Q. So, that's fine.
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` A. -- if I cannot be provided help. And there's
`another instance where -- which is a minor thing --
`where some references, which should've been to the
`exhibits, in fact, to the patent numbers, but there
`again, if we get to that and it's a problem, I will
`deal with it.
` Q. Okay. That's all right.
` A. I'll deal with it then.
` Q. Doctor Davis, I'm handing you what's been
`previously marked as Exhibit 2037.
` Do you recognize this document?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I do.
` Q. And what is it?
` A. It is a copy of my curriculum vitae.
` Q. Is your curriculum vitae accurate as of
`today?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I know in some
`places there are some duplications, but in -- in
`general terms, it is accurate, yes.
` Q. Can you please turn your attention to the
`section of your curriculum vitae that's entitled,
`Litigation, slash, Court Appearances, slash,
`Depositions, et cetera?
` A. (Deponent complied.) Which -- yes, I've got
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`to that part.
` Q. Is that section accurate in indicating that
`you have served as an expert witness in 15 different
`litigations?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) No. It is not
`accurate, as you've defined it. I've served in --
`these are the litigations where I have been in court
`or in deposition. I think your question, was this a
`summary of the litigations I've been involved with, so
`I've been involved in more litigations than listed
`here.
` Q. How many more approximately?
` A. Some have been lengthy, some have been very
`short because things have settle so at least another
`ten, I would say, but I haven't got a record in my
`mind at the moment, but it could well be another ten,
`and this is for U.S. and Canada.
` Q. Doctor Davis, how were you retained for this
`inter partes review?
` A. I received a phone call from one of the
`attorneys, I believe. It could've been an e-mail, but
`I think it was a phone call.
` Q. Do you remember which attorney?
` MR. SHERRY: And I -- you can identify
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`the people who you spoke with, but I caution you not
`to reveal the contents of communication.
` A. Yeah. It could've been Sam Sherry, or it
`could've been Sundar Subramanyam.
` Q. And how long ago was that?
` A. I would've thought it must be at least a year
`ago.
` Q. Doctor Davis, have you provided services to
`the patent owner in this matter of Fresenius Kabi
`before? By the way, did I pronounce the name
`correctly?
` A. Fresenius -- Fresenius, well, I think.
` Q. Fresenius? Okay.
` A. It's -- I often get German pronunciations
`wrong anyway. I think it's called -- could be
`Fresenius; it could be Fresenius, but. It --
` Q. Well, we'll just -- we'll just call it
`Fresenius.
` A. Okay. Fresenius. Yes, I have.
` Q. And could you identify those, please?
` A. There was a previous case with the -- the
`same company, Goodwin Procter, dealing with fat
`emulsions. And I have in the past acted as a
`consultant to Fresenius.
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` Q. So when you refer to the fat emulsions case,
`was that a patent litigation in the United States?
` A. It was.
` Q. Any other patent litigations in the United
`States other than the fat emulsions case that you just
`mentioned?
` A. For Fresenius, no.
` Q. Okay. And you also mentioned in your answer
`that you had served -- provided consulting services to
`Fresenius Kabi before; is that correct?
` A. To Fresenius before they became Fresenius
`Kabi, but to Fresenius, yes.
` Q. Okay. And were those consultations also on
`patent litigations?
` A. No.
` Q. What -- what were those consultations for?
` A. I'm thinking because it started off with some
`work I was doing with a company called Leopold in
`Austria, who were then taken over by BASF Knoll, who
`were then taken over by Fresenius. So I started off
`as a consultant with Leopold and then continued as the
`change of ownership took place.
` And with Fresenius, I think if memory serves
`me correctly, I was involved in consulting with them,
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`and it was on emulsion systems, the stability of
`emulsion systems, through my role as a professor in
`the University of Nottingham.
` Q. Do you feel that you have a good working
`relationship with Fresenius?
` A. I have not worked with Fresenius for maybe 15
`years or -- or longer.
` Q. Oh, I misspoke.
` Do you feel that you have a good working
`relationship with Fresenius Kabi?
` A. Oh, sorry, no, the same --
` Q. Oh, okay.
` A. In the same sense I -- yes. So the person I
`work with at Fresenius, who ended up on the main board
`of the company, I think she has been retired from
`Fresenius for about 15 years.
` I do remember once going to Austria to
`discuss a matter, but I can't remember what it was
`about, emulsion stability I would've thought, so I
`have not interacted with Fresenius for many years.
` And I'm not quite sure how much of my time it
`was Fresenius rather than Knoll because the -- it was
`the same people I saw in Austria. The name on the
`front of the building just stayed Leopold but the
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`ownership changed.
` Q. And the fat emulsions case that you mentioned
`that you worked on for Fresenius, how long ago was
`that?
` MR. SHERRY: And I don't think we've had
`any issues of this, but I do just caution you if there
`are any answers that include confidential information
`to be -- to be cautious.
` THE DEPONENT: Absolutely.
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) Looking at my
`list in front of me, 2014, was the year, whereas
`deposition and court testimony, and I think the work
`started on that in the -- towards the end of 2013.
` Q. And Doctor Davis, what is your rate that you
`charge for this inter partes review?
` A. I think it has changed to -- it was in pound
`sterling, and it is now in dollars. I think it is,
`yes, it's $800 an hour.
` Q. And roughly how much have you charged for the
`time that you have spent working on this inter partes
`review so far?
` A. I thought that question might come up and I
`think I can tell you the number of hours that I have
`spent to date, but I don't know where I am in terms of
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`the billing. Is that --
` Q. That would be fine.
` A. About 50 to 60 hours.
` Q. Doctor Davis, about how many times have you
`testified before at depositions?
` A. Could you repeat the question, how many times
`--
` Q. Have you testified in depositions before
`today?
` A. Before today?
` (Deponent viewing exhibit.) At least 15
`since 2005 and there may have been one or two more
`before then. Yes. So 17, 18 I would've thought, but
`my record only goes back to 2005.
` Q. Have you ever testified at a trial?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) Yes. Perhaps
`half of that number would've been where the matter has
`gone to trial. In some cases, I've taken part in,
`say, two or three depositions for the same -- the same
`case.
` Q. About how many times have you testified in
`trials?
` A. On that ba -- I would've thought something
`over ten, ten or 12.
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` Q. And about how many times have you served as
`an expert in a patent case?
` A. All of those would -- in -- would be in
`patent cases, except the present. Yes, I've -- inter
`partes review I have not been involved in until this
`particular time, so they would be patent cases that
`would, in some cases, go to court.
` Q. And about how many of those have you served
`as an expert --
` A. What --
` Q. -- in the patent cases?
` A. That have gone to court?
` Q. Whether it's gone to court or not made it
`that far.
` A. That goes back to an earlier question. I
`would've thought maybe in total, 20. I haven't kept a
`detailed record --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- except for this, of the record that is, I
`believe, required.
` Q. Of those approximately 20 cases, how many
`times have you served as an expert for the patent
`owner?
` A. I would've thought 70 percent of the time for
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`the patent owner, 30 percent for generic companies.
` Q. I think you may have discussed this one but
`I'll ask anyway just to make sure, have you ever
`served as an expert in an inter partes review before
`this one?
` A. No. I was involved for a short period in
`another one, but that was only for a month or so, so
`this is the -- the first one and the only continuing
`one.
` Q. And how long ago was the other inter partes
`review that you mentioned?
` A. It was about six months ago.
` Q. And was that with Fresenius also or another
`company?
` A. Another company entirely.
` Q. And was that work through Goodwin Procter or
`another law firm?
` A. Another law firm.
` Q. Okay. And in this other IPR, did you
`represent the patent owner or the petitioner?
` A. The patent owner.
` Q. Do you know what happened in that other inter
`partes review?
` A. What do you mean, the progress of it or --
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` Q. Well, you had mentioned that it ended.
` A. No, my role --
` Q. Oh, your role ended.
` A. -- ended. What was the -- I was asked if I
`would give a declaration. I prepared a declaration.
`The declaration was not submitted, so my involvement
`ceased at that point.
` Q. Doctor Davis, what percentage of your working
`time in 2016 has been spent doing expert-witness work
`for patent cases?
` A. Of my working time -- well, I took early
`retirement from the University of Nottingham in 2003,
`so of my limited working time, the majority of my
`working time would be in terms of patent litigation.
`Sometimes it would be consulting in terms of
`scientific issues for companies, but the majority of
`the time when I am working, but if that's not that
`much time, would be on patent litigation.
` Q. About how much time have you worked on patent
`litigations in 2016 approximately?
` A. I've no -- no idea, not -- it all depends.
`Sometimes too much and sometimes there are breaks when
`things go quiet. Maybe a hundred -- a hundred hours.
` Q. In 2016?
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` A. I -- without going back and looking at
`records on my computer.
` Q. Well, could you tell me approximately how
`much time you spent working on patent matters in 2015?
` A. I wouldn't have that information to hand.
`It's -- majority of my time is not spent working -- so
`it might be perhaps a day or two who -- a day a week,
`something like that, but I'd need to go back and look
`at my records.
` Q. And Doctor Davis, has anyone in any one of
`your patent cases attempted to exclude your testimony
`as an expert?
` A. Not that I'm aware of. They might have, but
`I'm not sure that I would -- someone might have for
`some reason, but this is -- well, I haven't known that
`that was happening, but as far as I know, I don't
`think so.
` Q. Have you ever been involved in the
`prosecution of a patent application?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in what countries?
` A. A large number of countries. As you will see
`from my CV, I was involved with setting up three
`pharmaceutical companies, and it -- in my role in that
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`company as a director but also as a consultant, I
`would be involved sometimes in helping in the
`prosecution of patents. I would be sometimes involved
`in the writing of patents and the same in the
`university.
` I would've -- on my list of patents there are
`some patents that were taken out in my role in the
`university, in my company there were also patents
`taken out, and I was involved in the prosecution of
`those.
` In Europe and in the United States and also
`in other countries like South Africa and Australia,
`that would be the initial start sometimes of the
`patenting process.
` Q. And what type of work did you do on the
`patent applications that were filed in the United
`States?
` A. That would be different types of work, so not
`one general type of work. As I said earlier, that
`might be involved in drafting the patents, looking at
`the prior art, discussing the patents with patent
`attorneys, on occasions to go to the US Patent Office
`or to meet attorneys in the United States in terms of
`the prosecution of patents, and I remember some of the
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`patents that went through an appeal process.
` Q. Do you think that examiners at the United
`States Patent Office have ever allowed the claims that
`are, in fact, not patentable?
` MR. SHERRY: Objection.
` You can answer.
` A. That could've -- could've happened, yes. I
`mean, the al -- the alternative would be that
`everything they have -- all claims have been -- what
`was the term you -- allow -- a pro --
` Q. I'll just rephrase the question.
` A. Okay. It was just --
` Q. Do you think that examiners at the United
`States Patent Office have ever allowed claims that
`are, in fact, not patentable?
` A. I belie --
` MR. SHERRY: Same objection.
` A. Okay. I believe --
` MR. SHERRY: Same objection.
` A. I believe that could've happened, yes.
` Q. Have you ever opined that a claim in a United
`States patent is not valid?
` A. I'm trying to think of the time I was acting
`for a generic company. I think in that case I was
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`focusing on the infringement issue rather than the
`validity, so as far as I recall, I have not been
`involved in any invalidity on behalf of a generic
`company, only in terms of infringement. In the United
`Kingdom, that is different.
` Q. That leads me to my next question.
` Have you ever opined that a claim in a patent
`issued from any country is not valid?
` A. I believe so in the High Court in London. I
`was certainly working for a generic company and from
`what I remember, and it was some time ago, that
`involved both the infringement issue and the validity,
`but an emphasis on the infringement.
` Q. And the cases you mentioned in which you
`contested the validity of the patent, were all of
`those in the United Kingdom?
` A. No, the -- well, there's -- I think the one
`in the United Kingdom there were issues concerned with
`validity, and in the United States, I seem to remember
`most of the time I was on the stand was to do with the
`-- the issue of whether it was infringed. That was
`my -- my main role, but I could've touched upon
`validity.
` Q. Doctor Davis, in preparing your declaration,
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`which I set before you previously, what materials did
`you consider?
` A. I considered a large number of different
`materials. You mean in terms of the -- the type of
`materials or the -- the list of materials?
` Q. The list of materials.
` A. A list of materials has been prepared.
` Q. Can you -- is that listed in your
`declaration?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) Not in what is
`in front of me, no.
` Q. Do you know where it was listed?
` A. I have seen a listing of them. When you say
`where, I'm not sure what -- I do have a listing of my
`-- I have had a listing of materials considered.
` Q. Could you direct your attention to Page 6 of
`your declaration?
` A. (Deponent complied.)
` Q. In --
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in particular, to Paragraph 19?
` A. (Deponent complied.) Okay. Yes.
` Q. And do you see the first sentence where it
`says, "In forming my opinions expressed herein, I
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`considered the materials cited in this declaration,"
`and then you have a parenthetical, "attached hereto is
`Exhibit 2036"?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I see that.
` Q. So -- but this declaration is Exhibit 2036,
`so the -- Exhibit 2036 cannot be attached to itself.
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I note on the
`front it says Exhibit 2036, correct.
` Q. Okay. So do you think that the list of
`materials that you considered in -- in preparing this
`declaration is listed elsewhere in another document?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I have --
`attached hereto -- I -- I am familiar with the papers
`that I have considered for this purpose. I mean, I
`have the materials on my computer, so I -- I know the
`materials that have been considered, and it says here,
`attached here is Exhibit 2036, but I can't find one
`because, as you say, this is -- and those -- this is
`2036 and there is not a list attached to it.
` Q. But I'm just trying to understand you.
` Do you remember preparing such a list of
`materials that you did consider?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I remember
`seeing a list, which would've been prepared with my
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`attorneys and together with -- with me at some stage,
`this is the list of materials considered --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- but where it is -- I mean, I -- I do
`recall seeing that when I read this declaration. I've
`read it a number of times, but I didn't need to look
`to it because I knew what was -- these materials were,
`so I had a separate list.
` Q. Is it okay with you if I refer to the patent
`that's at issue in this inter partes review which is
`8,476,010 as the '010 patent so that I will not have
`to say all seven numbers every time I ask a question
`about it?
` A. That would be fine.
` Q. Did you review the prosecution file history
`of the '010 patent before you gave your opinion in
`this declaration?
` A. I did see sections of the patent prosecution
`history, yes.
` Q. Does your declaration address anything that
`occurred during the prosecution of the application
`that led to the '010 patent?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I believe I
`mention that there were some prior art materials that
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`were considered by the US Patent Office and came back
`a number of times and then those were found not to be
`relevant in terms of the allowance of the claims.
` Q. Could you direct me in your declaration to
`the points where you discussed the prosecution file
`history of the '010 patent?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) If they are in
`this particular document -- and I've read a lot of
`documents -- it would be dealing with the patents that
`I know as those dealing with the diazepam solution and
`the work on the peptide material, but whether in this
`document I have specifically discussed the patent
`history is another matter.
` So I'm aware those two patents were a
`particular issue in the grant of the patent, but that
`may be from other documents I've read and whether that
`is here in this document, I am not sure.
` Q. What did you do to prepare for your
`deposition here today?
` A. I have read various documents and papers and
`patents, my declaration. I've had discussions with my
`attorneys.
` Q. When was the most recent time that you had a
`discussion with your attorney?
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` MR. SHERRY: And I --
` BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. I'm not asking what they said to you.
` Before your attorney reminds you, I'm just
`asking if -- when was the most recent time that you
`had a discussion with your attorney?
` A. This morning.
` Q. And who was present for those discussions?
` A. Two gentlemen here (indicating) for some --
`for some of the time and one other.
` Q. And prior to your discussions this morning,
`did you also have discussions with your attorneys to
`prepare yourself for this deposition here today?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And when was the time before this morning --
`the most recent time before this morning?
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. And about how long did you -- did you meet in
`person or talk on the phone yesterday?
` A. Met in person.
` Q. And about how long did you meet in person?
` A. I would think something in the order of six
`hours.
` Q. And which attorneys were present during this
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`meeting?
` A. There would've been two attorneys present.
` Q. And the two gentlemen that are here?
` A. No, not the two gentlemen present.
` Q. Not the two gentlemen that are here?
` A. You said in -- one of them, yes.
` Q. Oh, one of them?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Which one was -- maybe it would be easier if
`I just ask you the names of the attorneys who you met
`with yesterday?
` A. I met with Sam Sherry and Sundar Subramanyam.
`Those were the two -- whether they were in the room
`the whole time, I don't -- we didn't meet yesterday, I
`don't think -- sorry, with my colleague here
`(indicating). No.
` Q. And prior to yesterday, did you meet with
`your attorneys to prepare for your deposition here
`today?
` A. The day before as well.
` Q. So the day before yesterday was Wednesday; is
`that correct?
` A. Sorry?
` Q. The day before yesterday was Wednesday --
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` A. Correct.
` Q. -- is that correct?
` And on Wednesday, which attorneys did you
`meet with?
` A. The same -- the same two for most of the
`time. I met other people who came in and said hello,
`but in terms of discussing the deposition, the same
`two -- the same two attorneys.
` MR. SHERRY: And I'll just remind you not
`to --
` THE DEPONENT: Oh, no. I --
` MR. SHERRY: -- disclose the contents --
` THE DEPONENT: No. No.
` MR. SHERRY: -- in your questions.
` THE DEPONENT: I'm aware of that.
` BY MR. GONSALVES:
` Q. And about how long did you meet with your
`attorneys on Wednesday?
` A. I think slightly less in terms of time.
` Q. Did you meet with your attorneys prior to
`Wednesday to prepare for your deposition here today?
` A. I did not.
` Q. Did you arrive in the United States, let's
`say, on Tuesday as that -- as the --
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
` A. Tuesday -- Tuesday evening.
` Q. Doctor Davis, I'm handing you an exhibit that
`was previously marked as 1004.
` Do you recognize the document that I just
`handed to you?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) Yes, I have seen
`it before.
` Q. And what is it?
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) It is a
`technical report entitled, Siliconization of
`Parenteral Drug Packaging Components and the first
`author is Smith, and it describes the conclusions from
`a task force.
` Q. Is it okay with you if I refer to the
`document labeled Exhibit 1004 as Smith, which is the
`last name of the first author, so I don't have to
`recite the title every time I ask you a question about
`it?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Doctor Davis, does Smith disclose that
`machinability is greatly improved through the use of
`lubricated packaging components and that
`siliconization of rubber products reduces the friction
`present between the rubber closure and the metallic
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`machinery?
` A. Are you referring to a particular part of
`this document?
` Q. Sure, Page S4 on the right column toward the
`top.
` A. (Deponent viewing exhibit.) I read that,
`yes.
` Q. Would a person of ordinary skill in the art
`in June of 2003 have considered it desirable to
`improduce -- improve the use of lubricated packaging
`components?
` MR. SHERRY: Objection.
` A. That would depend upon what the product was
`and how desirable it was -- if there is a problem to
`be solved that they may have thought of siliconizing
`or using another type of material that would help to
`overcome the machinability issue.
` Q. How would a person of ordinary skill in the
`art in June of 2003 have considered it desirable to
`use siliconization of rubber products in order to
`reduce the friction between the rubber closure and the
`metallic machinery?
` MR. SHERRY: Objection.
` A. As I said before, that would depend upon what
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` STANLEY STEWART DAVIS, PH.D.
`they were trying to do, so it -- you've used the word
`"desirable." It might be desirable; it might be
`undesirable, so they would -- the person of ordinary
`skill would consider what they were asked to do, what
`was the filling problem that they were faced with.
` Q. How would one of ordinary skill in the art
`refer to the material that's inserted into the
`container in a drug industry?
` MR. SHERRY: Objection.
` You can answer.
` A. The material inserted into the --
` Q. Into the container.
` A. They could refer to it in different ways.
`You cou