Page 1
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
`
`LG ELECTRONICS, INC.; LG :
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`ELECTRONICS USA, INC.; LG :
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`ELECTRONICS MOBILECOMM USA, INC. : Case No.
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` vs. : IPR2015-01984
`
`CORE WIRELESS : Patent No.
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 8,434,020
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`LG ELECTRONICS, INC.; LG :
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`ELECTRONICS USA, INC.; LG :
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`ELECTRONICS MOBILECOMMUSA, INC. : Case No.
`
` vs. : IPR2015-01985
`
`CORE WIRELESS : Patent No.
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`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x 8,713,476
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` Washington, D.C.
`
` Wednesday, September 7, 2016
`
`Deposition of:
`
` SCOTT DENNING
`
`Called for oral examination by counsel for LG
`
`Electronics, pursuant to notice, at the law
`
`offices of Greenberg Trauig, 1750 Tysons
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`Boulevard, Suite 1000, McLean, Virginia, before
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`Denise M. Brunet, RPR, a Notary Public in and for
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`the Commonwealth of Virginia, beginning at
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`9:58 a.m., when were present on behalf of the
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`respective parties:
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`www.veritext.com
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 1
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`1 P R O C E E D I N G S
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`2 WHEREUPON,
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`3 SCOTT DENNING,
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`4 called as a witness, and after having been first
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`5 duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
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`6 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR LG ELECTRONICS
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`7 BY MR. BROWN:
`
`8 Q Good morning, Mr. Denning.
`
`9 A Good morning.
`
`10 Q Can you please state your full name for
`
`11 the record.
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`12 A Scott Andrew Denning.
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`13 Q And what is your current address?
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`14 A 11855 Windmill Road, Colorado Springs,
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`15 Colorado, 80908.
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`16 MR. HELGE: Nick, just to jump in here,
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`17 my understanding is we're here for deposition on
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`18 LG Electronics, Inc., v. Core Wireless Licensing
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`19 S.A.R.L., which is IPR 2015-01984 and 01985; is
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`20 that correct?
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`21 MR. BROWN: Yes.
`
`22 BY MR. BROWN:
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`1 A P P E A R A N C E S
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`2 3
`
`On behalf of LG Electronics:
`4 NICHOLAS A. BROWN, ESQUIRE
`5 Greenberg Trauig, LLP
`6 Four Embarcadero Center
`7 Suite 3000
`8 San Francisco, California 94111
`9 (415) 655-1271
`10 brownn@gtlaw.com
`11
`12 On behalf of Core Wireless:
`13 WAYNE HELGE, ESQUIRE
`14 WALTER D. DAVIS, JR., ESQUIRE
`15 Davidson Berquist Jackson & Gowdey, LLP
`16 8300 Greensboro Drive
`17 Suite 500
`18 McLean, Virginia 22102
`19 (571) 765-7709
`20 whelge@dbjg.com
`21
`22
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`Page 3
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`Page 5
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`1 Q You understand you're here for a
`2 deposition in the two IPRs that your counsel just
`3 described; is that right?
`4 A Yes.
`5 Q And you submitted a declaration in each
`6 of those two IPRs?
`7 A Yes.
`8 Q And a copy of that declaration is in
`9 front of you?
`10 A Yes.
`11 Q And it's marked as Exhibit 2001 in those
`12 IPRs down in the bottom right-hand corner?
`13 A Yes.
`14 Q If you turn to page 40. That's your
`15 signature?
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q And you signed this declaration on
`18 June 30th, 2016?
`19 A Yes.
`20 Q Attached to the end of your declaration,
`21 after page 40, is what appears to be your CV. Is
`22 that, in fact, your CV?
`
`1 C O N T E N T S
`2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE:
`3 Counsel for LG Electronics 4
`4 Counsel for Core Wireless 179
`5 Counsel for LG Electronics 186
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`6 7
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`DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: PAGE:
`8 Exhibit A U.S. Patent 8,434,020 9
`9 Exhibit B U.S. Patent 6,415,164 10
`10 Exhibit 1010 Excerpt from 12/99 issue of Popular
`11 Science 130
`12 Exhibit 1011 User's guide from R380s
`13 smartphone 132
`14 Exhibit 1012 Press release dated 3/18/99 137
`15 Exhibit 1013 Press release from EE Times
`16 dated 3/18/99 139
`17
`18
`19 (*Exhibits attached to the transcript.)
`20
`21
`22
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 2
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`Page 6
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`Page 8
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`1 A Yeah. That is a version of my CV.
`2 Q Is that a current version of your CV?
`3 A No.
`4 Q Was this the current version of your CV
`5 as of June 30th, 2016?
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q What has changed about your CV since
`8 then?
`9 A On the first page, under inter partes
`10 review declarations, there are a couple more that
`11 have been added. Also under the expert services
`12 retainers, there's some additional listings there.
`13 Q The first one you identified was the IPR
`14 declarations; is that right?
`15 A Yes.
`16 Q What has been added there?
`17 A I'm sorry. I've been thinking about this
`18 case for so long now, I'm not able to think of the
`19 others that I've been working on before.
`20 Q Okay. So there are some other IPRs other
`21 than this case that you've added here, but you
`22 can't remember them right now?
`
`1 MR. HELGE: Okay.
`2 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I wasn't allowed to
`3 post them on my CV until they had been.
`4 MR. HELGE: Okay. Just wanted to make
`5 sure.
`6 BY MR. BROWN:
`7 Q So you filed declarations in a matter
`8 involving Alarm.com and Vivant; is that right?
`9 A That's correct.
`10 Q And in that -- was it a single IPR?
`11 Several IPRs?
`12 A There are several.
`13 Q And on behalf of which party did you
`14 submit a declaration?
`15 A Vivant.
`16 Q Other than these Vivant IPRs, are there
`17 any other additional matters that are added to
`18 your CV in comparison to the one that we have
`19 attached to your declaration here?
`20 A I don't recall any others.
`21 Q I've handed you a copy of U.S. patent
`22 8,434,020. Do you recognize this -- and you
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`Page 7
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`Page 9
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`1 A That's correct.
`2 Q Okay. And you said there were some
`3 things added to expert services retainers. Do you
`4 remember what those are?
`5 A They go together.
`6 Q Oh, they go together?
`7 A Yeah.
`8 Q Do you remember anything about the IPR
`9 declarations, for example, the area of technology
`10 or anything like that?
`11 A Yes, I do. It's alarm-related.
`12 Q Alarm-related?
`13 A Yes. Actually, that gave me the clue
`14 there. So the case is actually Alarm.com versus
`15 Vivant, V-I-V-A-N-T.
`16 Q Which party --
`17 MR. HELGE: Nick, can I jump in real
`18 quick?
`19 MR. BROWN: Sure.
`20 MR. HELGE: Just because I'm not sure if
`21 those declarations had actually been filed.
`22 THE WITNESS: They have.
`
`1 understand that patents are typically referred to
`2 by their last three digits?
`3 A Yes.
`4 MR. HELGE: I note that this one is not
`5 marked with an exhibit number. There should have
`6 been an Exhibit 1001 already of record in the
`7 case.
`8 MR. BROWN: I'll stipulate that this
`9 patent is Exhibit 1001 in each case. I think you
`10 might remember that there are two different -- the
`11 reason I'm using the one without the exhibit
`12 number is that it applies in each case.
`13 MR. HELGE: Do we need to have the
`14 reporter mark this?
`15 MR. BROWN: Sure, we can mark it as
`16 Exhibit 1001.
`17 MR. HELGE: Well, I would not use the
`18 same number that's already a record in the case.
`19 Maybe Exhibit A or something like that.
`20 MR. BROWN: That's fine. Can we mark
`21 this as Exhibit A?
`22 (Deposition Exhibit Letter A was marked
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 3
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`Page 10
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`Page 12
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`1 for identification.)
`2 BY MR. BROWN:
`3 Q Do you recognize this as a copy of the
`4 '020 patent?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q I also have a copy of U.S. patent
`7 6,415,164 to Blanchard.
`8 MR. HELGE: And let's do the same --
`9 MR. BROWN: Do you want to do the same
`10 thing?
`11 MR. HELGE: Please. Let's do the same
`12 thing.
`13 MR. BROWN: Okay. Could we mark this as
`14 Exhibit B.
`15 (Deposition Exhibit Letter B was marked
`16 for identification.)
`17 BY MR. BROWN:
`18 Q Mr. Denning, do you recognize this as a
`19 copy of the Blanchard patent that you have offered
`20 opinions about in your declaration?
`21 A Yes.
`22 Q If you could turn to your declaration at
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`Page 11
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`1 page 24. Actually, why don't we go back to
`2 page 22, paragraph 43. You state near the bottom
`3 of that paragraph, starting four lines from the
`4 bottom, "Blanchard never discloses that the
`5 features shown in these screens are implemented
`6 with applications."
`7 Do you see that?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q So it's your opinion that Blanchard
`10 doesn't describe the use of applications, correct?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q If you turn to paragraph 46 on page 24,
`13 you produced figure 1 from Blanchard at the top of
`14 that page, correct?
`15 A Yes.
`16 Q Then near the bottom of page 24, you
`17 state, "If any conclusion could be reached by a
`18 POSITA" -- let's stop there for a second. That's
`19 an acronym that refers to a person of ordinary
`20 skill in the art; is that correct?
`21 A That is correct.
`22 Q Go on -- "it would be that Blanchard
`
`1 software is implemented with monolithic
`2 instructions, or an operating program as discussed
`3 by Oommen, and that these instructions would
`4 include subroutines, perhaps dynamically linked as
`5 Oommen describes, that can be called to perform
`6 various features of the operating program."
`7 Correct?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q Let me give you a copy of what has been
`10 previously marked as Exhibit 2009 in both IPRs.
`11 This is a copy of U.S. patent 6,993,328 to Oommen,
`12 and that is the Oommen that you're referring to in
`13 your declaration, correct?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q So in your opinion, Blanchard is
`16 describing a phone that would use the type of
`17 software that's described in Oommen as opposed to
`18 applications; is that correct?
`19 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`20 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`21 BY MR. BROWN:
`22 Q What is the difference between the type
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`Page 13
`1 of software that's described in Oommen and the
`2 applications that you say are not present in
`3 Blanchard or Oommen?
`4 A Oommen describes a software architecture
`5 that would be considered as monolithic by one
`6 skilled in the art, that meaning -- monolithic
`7 being an all-inclusive, one application, meaning
`8 that there are various levels of subroutines and
`9 functions that are all included in a single large
`10 executable program.
`11 This monolithic program in the case of
`12 Blanchard includes functions for contacts. It
`13 includes functions for text or dialing a phone,
`14 various things like that, that are all included
`15 within this same program.
`16 The other way of designing software is to
`17 use application operating system type architecture
`18 where the operating system manages the lower level
`19 functions of the phone and various applications
`20 sit on top of that. The applications can each be
`21 launched individually. They're executed and
`22 loaded one by one. An operating system is capable
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 4
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`Page 14
`1 of executing multiple applications simultaneously,
`2 typically. In a monolithic software architecture,
`3 there is only one program running ever.
`4 Q I believe you said in Blanchard there are
`5 functions for contacts, dialing a phone and text
`6 messages; is that accurate?
`7 A I believe that's what I said.
`8 Q And do you believe it's accurate that a
`9 person of ordinary skill in the art would
`10 understand that the phone in Blanchard had
`11 functions for dialing the phone, sending text
`12 messages and displaying contacts?
`13 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`14 THE WITNESS: Well, Blanchard itself
`15 never goes into details of exactly what is
`16 implemented where. You can just kind of look at
`17 the figures and determine some of the things that
`18 he had in mind that would be implemented with this
`19 invention.
`20 BY MR. BROWN:
`21 Q Well, if you look at figure 3, for
`22 example -- actually, let's back up. Let's start
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`Page 15
`1 with figure 2. Figure 2 shows a phone, correct?
`2 A Yes.
`3 Q And using the phone shown in figure 2, a
`4 person of ordinary skill in the art would
`5 understand that you could call a phone number.
`6 A Yes.
`7 Q And you could receive a phone call,
`8 correct?
`9 A Yes.
`10 Q So those would be functions available
`11 within the phone in Blanchard?
`12 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`13 THE WITNESS: That is correct.
`14 BY MR. BROWN:
`15 Q To address your counsel's objection, is
`16 it correct that dialing a phone number is a
`17 function available within the phone in Blanchard?
`18 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`20 BY MR. BROWN:
`21 Q And if you look at figure 3, there's a
`22 series of screens, and one of them is marked 320.
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`Page 16
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`1 Do you see that one?
`2 A Yes.
`3 Q And it has a book icon highlighted in the
`4 top row. Do you see that?
`5 A Yes.
`6 Q And then the first line of text says,
`7 "Phone book"?
`8 A Yes.
`9 Q And then there's another line of text
`10 with a filled-in oval next to it that says, "View
`11 all." Do you see that?
`12 A Yes.
`13 Q A person of ordinary skill in the art
`14 would understand that selecting that "view all"
`15 option would show you the entries in the phone
`16 book, right?
`17 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`18 THE WITNESS: You know, I don't know that
`19 you can say that.
`20 BY MR. BROWN:
`21 Q In your opinion, what would a person of
`22 ordinary skill in the art understand would happen
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`Page 17
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`1 if you selected this "view all" option that's
`2 highlighted in screen 320?
`3 MR. HELGE: Objection.
`4 THE WITNESS: I just don't know that I'm
`5 given enough information to make assumptions about
`6 what the menu items on this does. For example,
`7 there could be multiple phone books. Maybe I'm
`8 going to view all the phone books. I mean, I
`9 don't know. I can't say what this particular
`10 function does.
`11 BY MR. BROWN:
`12 Q I think you said before that Blanchard
`13 describes a function for contacts. Do you
`14 remember that?
`15 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`16 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`17 BY MR. BROWN:
`18 Q Can you point out in Blanchard what the
`19 function is for contacts that you were thinking
`20 of?
`21 A No, I can't.
`22 Q In your opinion, could a person of
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 5
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`1 ordinary skill in the art draw any conclusions
`2 about what functions were available from the phone
`3 book screen 320?
`4 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`5 THE WITNESS: Really, all we're given is
`6 clues. Obviously, voice message is something that
`7 is capable. I mean, that's spelled out as an
`8 option.
`9 So if I look at block 330, text messages
`10 is also there, call log is also there. There's
`11 some kind of security function that we see from
`12 block 340 for a phone lock and call block, though
`13 we aren't given any clue as to what that means.
`14 Also, in 350, we see that there are tools, which
`15 include phone settings, but, again, Blanchard is
`16 silent as to what kinds of settings one might be
`17 able to use.
`18 BY MR. BROWN:
`19 Q I meant to be asking you about screen 320
`20 which has entries "view all," "recall entry" and
`21 "add entry." Do you see that?
`22 A I do.
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`1 Q And a person of ordinary skill in the art
`2 would understand that by selecting the "view all"
`3 function, the phone in Blanchard would display the
`4 contacts in the phone book, right?
`5 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`6 THE WITNESS: Certainly that would go
`7 along with that. I don't know that you could have
`8 arrived to that conclusion on Blanchard alone.
`9 BY MR. BROWN:
`10 Q Well, what else could it be?
`11 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`12 THE WITNESS: As I said, one possible
`13 example could be multiple phone books.
`14 BY MR. BROWN:
`15 Q So that first -- well, first of all, is
`16 that something that you would call a function,
`17 showing the contacts in a phone book?
`18 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`19 THE WITNESS: In looking at it from a
`20 user's perspective, it could be referred to as a
`21 function or a feature, I guess.
`22 BY MR. BROWN:
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`Page 19
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`Page 21
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`1 Q Could a person of ordinary skill in the
`2 art draw any conclusions about what functions were
`3 available from screen 320?
`4 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`5 THE WITNESS: There obviously are
`6 entries. You can add an entry and you can recall
`7 an entry. Beyond that, I don't know that you can
`8 specify what an entry actually is. It appears to
`9 be something in the phone book. But as I said
`10 before, there are many things that it could be and
`11 I cannot say which one.
`12 BY MR. BROWN:
`13 Q A person of ordinary skill in the art
`14 would understand that an entry in the phone book
`15 shown in Blanchard could be a contact; in other
`16 words, a person's name and number.
`17 MR. HELGE: Is there a question?
`18 BY MR. BROWN:
`19 Q Is that correct?
`20 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`21 THE WITNESS: It could be.
`22 BY MR. BROWN:
`
`1 Q What about "recall entry"? Is that also
`2 something that a person of ordinary skill in the
`3 art would refer to as a function or a feature, in
`4 your opinion?
`5 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`6 I'm sorry. Could you repeat that
`7 question for me?
`8 BY MR. BROWN:
`9 Q I can just ask it again.
`10 MR. HELGE: I just want to make sure we
`11 get it word for word.
`12 MR. BROWN: Okay.
`13 (The reporter read the record as
`14 requested.)
`15 THE WITNESS: I guess I would have to say
`16 that one skilled in the art as somebody designing
`17 this would refer to these as being menu items.
`18 BY MR. BROWN:
`19 Q Okay. Let's go back to your declaration
`20 at page 24, the sentence we were looking at
`21 before. And in the second to last line, you
`22 state, "these instructions include subroutines."
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 6
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`Page 24
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`1 Do you see that?
`2 A I do.
`3 Q And you then go on to say, in the last
`4 line, "that can be called to perform various
`5 features."
`6 Do you see that?
`7 A I do.
`8 Q Can you give examples of what the
`9 features are that you're referring to?
`10 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`11 BY MR. BROWN:
`12 Q If it helps, I'll note that above,
`13 earlier in this paragraph, you state that,
`14 "Blanchard again uses the term 'features' to also
`15 refer to the selectable menu options of figure 3."
`16 Do you see that?
`17 A Yes.
`18 Q Okay. With that in mind, do you agree
`19 that "recall entry" in screen 320 is something
`20 that a person of ordinary skill in the art would
`21 describe as a feature of the Blanchard phone?
`22 A Yes.
`
`1 that particular feature.
`2 Q Didn't you describe that as a
`3 subroutine --
`4 A As I said before --
`5 Q -- in your declaration?
`6 A -- I'm not willing to say that every
`7 single menu item has an associated subroutine.
`8 Q But you're willing to say that some of
`9 them do?
`10 A Certainly some of them do.
`11 Q And you are willing to say that every
`12 menu item has some code that is called when the
`13 item is selected?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q Okay. Can you explain the distinction,
`16 then, between having some code that is called and
`17 having a subroutine?
`18 A Well, a subroutine is a very specific
`19 type of code that would be called. Blanchard
`20 doesn't really speak about that. And Blanchard is
`21 intentionally silent about the software
`22 architecture altogether.
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`Page 23
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`Page 25
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`1 Q And "view all" is also a feature of the
`2 Blanchard phone?
`3 A Yes.
`4 Q And if you were to select one of the
`5 options in screen 320, in your opinion, what would
`6 happen is that computer instructions in the form
`7 of a subroutine of an operating program would be
`8 called, correct?
`9 A Possibly. I am not willing to say that
`10 for every one of Blanchard's menu items, that
`11 selecting that menu item is going to necessarily
`12 call a subroutine. It may.
`13 Q Okay. Well, in the sentence that we've
`14 been talking about at the bottom of page 24, what
`15 are you saying about what happens when you --
`16 well, first of all, are you saying anything about
`17 what happens in Blanchard when one of these menu
`18 items is selected?
`19 A Certainly, when a menu item is selected,
`20 there is a call placed to somewhere in the
`21 monolithic program and some code is executed that
`22 performs whatever the implementer has in mind for
`
`1 And the -- there are a couple of
`2 indicators that made me think, well, Blanchard
`3 could be implemented on a microprocessor where
`4 there is a program memory and perhaps subroutines
`5 are called. But Blanchard himself also describes
`6 this entire system being implemented on some kind
`7 of programmable logic, such as a gate array, or
`8 something like that, that doesn't actually even
`9 have software.
`10 So to say that every feature on the menu
`11 item is going to invoke code could be completely
`12 incorrect if this is actually only implemented in
`13 silicon.
`14 Q You just described the possibility that
`15 Blanchard would be implemented only in silicon.
`16 Can you point to the part in Blanchard that you're
`17 thinking of that describes that?
`18 A Look at column 5, line 35 or 36, "Either
`19 by programming a microprocessor or by special
`20 purpose logic circuitry."
`21 Q Go back to column 2 starting at line 52,
`22 the paragraph that begins, "The terminal 100."
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 7
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`1 A Okay.
`2 Q That refers to "a program memory 112
`3 which provides instructions to a central
`4 processing unit (CPU) 113 for controlling the
`5 various operating features and functions
`6 originating at the terminal," correct?
`7 A Yes.
`8 Q So Blanchard describes implementing the
`9 features and functions of the phone using
`10 instructions, correct?
`11 A Yes.
`12 Q And it describes implementing those
`13 instructions with a CPU, correct?
`14 A That is one of the ways Blanchard
`15 suggests it could be implemented.
`16 Q So if Blanchard was implemented that way,
`17 that would be using software, correct?
`18 A Yes.
`19 Q Your caveat to that is there's a
`20 reference to special purpose logic circuitry, such
`21 as a available in a digital signal processor in
`22 column 5; is that right?
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`Page 27
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`1 A Yes.
`2 Q In your opinion, if you used an
`3 additional signal processor to implement
`4 Blanchard, there would not be software; is that
`5 correct?
`6 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`7 THE WITNESS: No, that is not correct.
`8 I'm saying Blanchard is suggesting that the GUI
`9 system that he has described here of the multiple
`10 screens linked together could be implemented in
`11 logic circuitry.
`12 BY MR. BROWN:
`13 Q If you go back to figure 3 in Blanchard,
`14 is it correct that selecting any one of the
`15 functions that's shown in figure 3 would call some
`16 sort of set of instructions within the phone?
`17 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`18 THE WITNESS: Did you ask me, if I select
`19 any one of the menu items here, that, in selecting
`20 that, some code is called?
`21 BY MR. BROWN:
`22 Q Sure. Is that correct?
`
`1 A Yes.
`2 Q Okay. So what's the distinction that
`3 you're trying to draw based on whether -- about
`4 that code that is called based on whether it's a
`5 DSP or a CPU that's implementing the code?
`6 A Because Blanchard is silent on the
`7 architecture, there are probably many different
`8 ways that the system could be implemented, and
`9 certainly Blanchard himself speaks of two ways.
`10 To limit myself to subroutines as a designer is --
`11 is something that I'm not really willing to do.
`12 Blanchard doesn't say subroutines. Blanchard
`13 describes a high-level GUI and doesn't give any
`14 more detail.
`15 If I were to use the diagram in figure 2
`16 where there is a program memory and there is a
`17 separate data memory --
`18 Q I think you're referring to figure 1.
`19 A You're right, I am. Figure 1, yes.
`20 Q Okay.
`21 A -- there is a program memory, there's a
`22 fairly rudimentary CPU, and I have a user
`
`Page 29
`1 interface, then certainly selecting something on
`2 the user interface is going to trigger some part
`3 of program memory to run. There are a number of
`4 different mechanisms that could be used to make
`5 that code run. That's all I'm saying.
`6 Q So if I understand -- well, let me just
`7 ask the question. Is it correct that a person of
`8 ordinary skill in the art would understand that
`9 selecting one of the options in the user interface
`10 shown in figure 3 in Blanchard would trigger some
`11 sort of code from program memory 112 to run, but
`12 there are many possible mechanisms for that to
`13 occur?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q And can you describe the possible
`16 mechanisms that you have in mind?
`17 A I can think of two right off the bat.
`18 One particular one is simply looping until an
`19 option is selected.
`20 Q What else can you think of?
`21 A A physical subroutine call that occurs
`22 when an option is selected.
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`1 Q And in your opinion, is it correct that
`2 either of those options would be implemented using
`3 the type of software that's described in Oommen?
`4 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`6 MR. HELGE: You know what? I want to be
`7 clear, because Oommen is pretty broad. Right?
`8 There's a background and there's an invention.
`9 And to refer generally as Oommen software, I think
`10 we need to be more specific than that.
`11 MR. BROWN: Wayne, I don't think that's a
`12 proper objection under the rules. I'll have to
`13 check at a break, but I'd ask you to try to limit
`14 your comments during the deposition to proper
`15 objections.
`16 MR. HELGE: Just want to make sure we
`17 have a clean record here.
`18 MR. BROWN: Can you repeat the question?
`19 (The reporter read the record as
`20 requested.)
`21 BY MR. BROWN:
`22 Q If you could turn to the Oommen
`
`1 Q No. I was referring generally to the
`2 Oommen patent. The title is, "Method for
`3 over-the-air mobile station management," right?
`4 A That is the title.
`5 Q And mobile station is a term that is
`6 commonly used in the art to refer to a mobile
`7 phone, correct?
`8 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`10 BY MR. BROWN:
`11 Q And in the abstract, it refers to, in the
`12 first line, "a system and method for managing a
`13 mobile station wirelessly," correct?
`14 A Yes.
`15 Q A person of ordinary skill in the art
`16 would understand that the mobile station referred
`17 to there is a mobile phone, right?
`18 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`19 THE WITNESS: It could be.
`20 BY MR. BROWN:
`21 Q What else could it be?
`22 A It appears that it could be anything
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`Page 31
`1 reference, please. Oommen was filed on May 8,
`2 2000, correct?
`3 A That's what it says.
`4 Q That is prior to the July 28, 2000 date
`5 that you've described as the critical date for the
`6 '020 patent, correct?
`7 A Yes.
`8 Q So, in your opinion, Oommen is prior art
`9 to the '020 patent, correct?
`10 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`12 BY MR. BROWN:
`13 Q And Oommen describes what you called a
`14 monolithic operating program, correct?
`15 A Yes.
`16 Q And that monolithic operating program is
`17 the operating program for a mobile phone; is that
`18 correct?
`19 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`20 THE WITNESS: Is there a particular
`21 paragraph you're referring to?
`22 BY MR. BROWN:
`
`Page 33
`1 considered to be a mobile station, a mobile phone
`2 being one of those. Certainly there are many
`3 other kinds of mobile stations, though.
`4 Q But you agree that Oommen describes an
`5 operating program for a mobile telephone that
`6 could potentially also be used for other things,
`7 but it can at least be used for mobile telephones,
`8 correct?
`9 A Yes.
`10 Q And you picked Oommen as an example of
`11 the type of instructions that a person of ordinary
`12 skill in the art would understand were being used
`13 in Blanchard; is that correct?
`14 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`15 THE WITNESS: Yes.
`16 BY MR. BROWN:
`17 Q Is it correct that the type of software
`18 that's described in Oommen could be used in the
`19 program memory 112 Blanchard, in your opinion?
`20 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`21 THE WITNESS: You know, I need to
`22 understand whether you're referring to the
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`LG Exhibit 1017, Page 9
`LG Electronics, Inc. v. Core Wireless Licensing S.A.R.L., Trial No. IPR2015-01984
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`1 software in general or the monolithic type of
`2 software, because there's many kinds of software
`3 that could be implemented in a phone. In
`4 particular, I selected Oommen to demonstrate
`5 monolithic software. So rather than referring to
`6 Oommen in general, I would prefer that you would
`7 specifically say monolithic so I know what you're
`8 talking about.
`9 BY MR. BROWN:
`10 Q Okay. I meant to be asking you about
`11 your opinion. So you're telling me that your
`12 opinion is that Oommen describes monolithic
`13 software; is that right?
`14 A That is correct.
`15 Q Okay. And if you look at the bottom of
`16 column 1, going up to the top of column 2, it
`17 refers to -- the very first words in column 2,
`18 "control software installed in a mobile station."
`19 Do you see that?
`20 A Yes.
`21 Q And it's describing modifying that
`22 control software, right?
`
`1 BY MR. BROWN:
`2 Q So what is included in the monolithic
`3 software that you've been referring to in your
`4 answers and in your declaration?
`5 A Actually, upon thinking about it, let me
`6 change my last answer to yes. The current objects
`7 stored in object memory and the dynamic agent
`8 operating programs -- program are part of the
`9 monolithic control program.
`10 Q Is it correct that, in your opinion, a
`11 person of ordinary skill in the art would
`12 understand from Blanchard that you could use a
`13 monolithic control program with those two parts in
`14 Blanchard?
`15 MR. HELGE: Object to form.
`16 THE WITNESS: Could you please repeat the
`17 question?
`18 BY MR. BROWN:
`19 Q Sure. I think you just testified that
`20 the monolithic software that you've described as
`21 being