UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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` PALO ALTO NETWORKS, INC. ) Inter Partes
`
` Petitioner ) Review No. 2015-01979
`
` vs. ) U.S. Patent No.
`
` FINJAN, INC., ) 8,141,154
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
` _________________________________)
`
` DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL T. GOODRICH, Ph.D.
`
` Newport Beach, California
`
` Monday, October 17, 2016
`
` Volume I
`
` Veritext Legal Solutions
`
` Mid-Atlantic Region
`
` 1250 Eye Street NW - Suite 350
`
` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. - Exhibit 1047 - Page 1
`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`

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`Page 4
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`1 APPEARANCES (Continued):
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` For Blue Coat Systems, LLC:
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`2 3
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`4 5
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` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
`6 BY: NEIL N. DESAI, ESQ.
`7 633 West Fifth Street, Suite 1550
`8 Los Angeles, California 90071-2027
`9 323.210.2912
`10 ndesai@wsgr.com
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`Page 2
`1 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`3 4
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` ---------------------------------
`5 PALO ALTO NETWORKS, INC. ) Inter Partes
`6 Petitioner ) Review No. 2015-01979
`7 vs. ) U.S. Patent No.
`8 FINJAN, INC., ) 8,141,154
`9 Patent Owner. )
`10 _________________________________)
`11
`12 Deposition of MICHAEL T. GOODRICH, Ph.D.
`13 Volume I, taken on behalf of Petitioner at 690 Newport
`14 Center Drive, Newport Beach, California, beginning at
`15 2:36 p.m., and ending at 3:36 p.m., Monday,
`16 October 17, 2016, before Gail E. Kennamer, CSR 4583, CCRR.
`17
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`Page 3
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`Page 5
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`1 INDEX
`2 WITNESS EXAMINATION
`3 MICHAEL T. GOODRICH, Ph.D.
` Volume I
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`4 5
`
` BY MR. ARMON 8
`6 BY MR. LEE 41
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`7 8 9
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`10
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`1 APPEARANCES:
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` For Petitioner:
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`2 3
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`4 5
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` COOLEY LLP
`6 BY: ORION ARMON, ESQ.
`7 380 Interlocken Boulevard, Suite 900
`8 Broomfield, Colorado 80021
`9 720.566.4119
`10 oarmon@cooley.com
`11
`12
`13 For Patent Owner:
`14
`15 KRAMER LEVIN NAFTALIS & FRANKEL LLP
`16 BY: MICHAEL H. LEE, ESQ.
`17 990 Marsh Road
`18 Menlo Park, California 94025
`19 650.752.1716
`20 mhlee@kramerlevin.com
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25 (Continued on following page.)
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. - Exhibit 1047 - Page 2
`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`

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`Page 8
`1 Newport Beach, California; Monday, October 17, 2016
`2 2:36 p.m.
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`3 4
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` MICHAEL T. GOODRICH, Ph.D.,
`5 a witness herein, having been administered an oath, was
`6 examined, and testified as follows:
`
`7 8 9
`
` MR. ARMON: This is Orion Armon, lead counsel
`10 for petitioner, Palo Alto Networks.
`11 MR. DESAI: Neil Desai, counsel for Blue Coat
`12 Systems, Inc.
`13 MR. LEE: Michael Lee from Kramer, Levin
`14 representing Finjan.
`15 MR. ARMON: This is the deposition of
`16 Dr. Michael Goodrich in Inter Partes Review Number
`17 2015-01979 concerning U.S. Patent 8,141,154.
`18
`19 -EXAMINATION-
`20
`21 BY MR. ARMON:
`22 Q. Sir, you served a supplemental declaration in
`23 this case; correct?
`24 A. Yes.
`25 MR. ARMON: Mark this as Exhibit 1, please.
`
`Page 6
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`1 EXHIBITS
`2 NUMBER PAGE
`3 Exhibit 1 Declaration of Michael 9
`4 Goodrich, Ph.D.
`
`5 6
`
` Exhibit 2 Declaration of Nenad 10
`7 Medvidovic, Ph.D. on the
`8 Validity of Claims 1-5, 6-8
`9 10, and 11 of U.S. Patent
`10 No. 8,141,154 in Support of
`11 Patent Owner's Response
`12
`13 Exhibit 3 Declaration of S.H. Michael 10
`14 Kim in Support of Patent
`15 Owner's Response Pursuant to
`16 37 CFR Section 42.120
`17
`18 Exhibit 4 Document entitled, "Avast 13
`19 Software - Infringement
`20 of the '154 Patent"
`21
`22 Exhibit 5 Document entitled, "F-Secure 16
`23 Client Security Browsing
`24 Protection and DeepGuard
`25 (Continued on following page.)
`
`Page 7
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`Page 9
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`1 (Deposition Exhibit 1 was marked for identification
`2 by the court reporter.)
`3 BY MR. ARMON:
`4 Q. Exhibit 1 is the declaration you served in this
`5 case, sir, supplemental declaration?
`6 A. Yes.
`7 Q. Your curriculum vitae at the end of Exhibit 1 in
`8 Appendix A is current?
`9 A. I believe it was current as of my signing of the
`10 declaration.
`11 Q. Last month?
`12 A. Yeah.
`13 Q. Current as of last month?
`14 A. That's correct.
`15 Q. Okay. I don't believe all of the declarations
`16 you served have included a CV. I take it that this one
`17 would stand for any declaration that didn't have one
`18 attached?
`19 A. That is correct.
`20 Q. Thank you.
`21 As in the other cases, sir, you rely upon, and your
`22 declaration stands upon, the Declaration of Dr. Medvidovic
`23 that was offered in this case; correct?
`24 A. So for my supplemental declaration, I cite to
`25 the Declaration of Dr. Medvidovic and also to Michael Kim
`
`1 EXHIBITS (Continued)
`2 NUMBER PAGE
`3 Exhibit 6 Document entitled, "Websense 17
`4 Products"
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`5 6
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` Exhibit 7 United States Patent 30
`7 Application Publication
`8 Khazan, et al.
`9
`10 Exhibit 8 Declaration of Michael T. 37
`11 Goodrich, Ph.D. in Support
`12 of Petitioner for Inter Partes
`13 Review of U.S. Patent No.
`14 8,074,115
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. - Exhibit 1047 - Page 3
`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`

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`Page 10
`1 as well as independent -- independent opinions regarding
`2 various terms.
`3 MR. ARMON: Exhibit 2, please.
`4 (Deposition Exhibit 2 was marked for identification
`5 by the court reporter.)
`6 MR. ARMON: And Exhibit 3, please.
`7 (Deposition Exhibit 3 was marked for identification
`8 by the court reporter.)
`9 BY MR. ARMON:
`10 Q. You've been handed the Declaration of
`11 Dr. Medvidovic as Exhibit 2; correct?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. And I've also handed you the Declaration of
`14 Michael Kim, which is Exhibit 3?
`15 A. That is correct.
`16 Q. Those are the materials you were just
`17 referencing that your declaration relies upon; correct?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. With respect to Exhibit 2, what methodology did
`20 you undertake in making the determination as you state in
`21 Paragraph 24 of your declaration that
`22 Dr. Medvidovic provides credible and reliable support for
`23 his opinions?
`24 A. So the methodology I used was to read his
`25 declaration and examine the various exhibits that he cites
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`Page 12
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`1 over the telephone?
`2 A. I don't have any recollection of having a
`3 conversation with him in person or over the phone.
`4 Q. Okay. And I take it, you did not review his
`5 declaration before it was finalized on July 12, 2016;
`6 correct?
`7 A. I don't recall if I saw any drafts prior to
`8 that, but I relied on the declaration as it's presented
`9 here as Exhibit 3.
`10 Q. Have you had any conversations that you relied
`11 on in forming your opinions in this case other than
`12 Dr. Medvidovic or Mr. Kim?
`13 MR. LEE: I caution the witness not to reveal
`14 any attorney-client privilege conversation.
`15 THE WITNESS: Yes. As I mentioned earlier, I
`16 don't have any recollections of conversations with them.
`17 I had discussions with attorneys in preparing my
`18 supplemental declaration that I have been instructed not
`19 to give the substance of those discussions.
`20 BY MR. ARMON:
`21 Q. Okay. Did you rely upon any of the content
`22 conveyed to you by the attorneys when you formulated your
`23 opinions contained in your supplemental declaration?
`24 A. No.
`25 MR. LEE: Same objection.
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`Page 11
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`Page 13
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`1 to support his opinions, and then come to my own
`2 conclusions as to whether or not he is indeed providing
`3 credible and reliable support for his opinion; and based
`4 on that analysis, I feel that he is.
`5 Q. As we previously established, you've never met
`6 Dr. Medvidovic; correct?
`7 A. That is correct.
`8 Q. And you have not spoken with him live or over
`9 the telephone correct?
`10 A. Not to my recollection.
`11 Q. And to your recollection, you haven't directly
`12 corresponded with him via any form of written
`13 communication; correct?
`14 A. I believe that's correct.
`15 Q. And you received his declaration sometime after
`16 July 12th when he had finalized and signed it; correct?
`17 A. Yes.
`18 Q. Dr. Medvidovic had no input on the contents of
`19 your declaration; correct?
`20 A. Besides his declaration itself, no, and the
`21 materials that he cites.
`22 Q. All right. With respect to Exhibit 3 and
`23 Mr. Kim, have you met Mr. Kim?
`24 A. Not to my knowledge.
`25 Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Kim in person or
`
`1 BY MR. ARMON:
`2 Q. You mentioned in Paragraph 24 that
`3 Dr. Medvidovic's declaration contains 80 pages of analysis
`4 and over 20 exhibits.
`5 In your review of Dr. Medvidovic's declaration, did
`6 you review any of the 20 exhibits cited?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. Some or all of them?
`9 A. At least some. I believe I looked at all of
`10 them; but sitting here today, it's definitely some as I
`11 recall.
`12 MR. ARMON: Exhibit 4, please.
`13 (Deposition Exhibit 4 was marked for identification
`14 by the court reporter.)
`15 BY MR. ARMON:
`16 Q. Dr. Goodrich, it's your opinion based upon
`17 analysis by Dr. Medvidovic, that Avast practices the
`18 claims of the '154 patent; correct?
`19 A. Yes.
`20 Q. And the basis, sole basis for that opinion, is
`21 the chart that's been marked as Exhibit 4; correct?
`22 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`23 THE WITNESS: (Indicating.)
`24 So with respect to Avast, I relied on this claim
`25 chart that's tagged as Exhibit 4 as well as the discussion
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. - Exhibit 1047 - Page 4
`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`

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`Page 14
`1 in Medvidovic's declaration from Paragraphs 126 to 136.
`2 BY MR. ARMON:
`3 Q. With respect to the Avast claim chart marked as
`4 Exhibit 4, you did not create that claim chart; correct?
`5 A. That's correct.
`6 Q. And I take it your assumption, as with the other
`7 claim charts, is that Dr. Medvidovic created it?
`8 A. That's my understanding.
`9 Q. But not one that you have confirmed directly by
`10 speaking with him; correct?
`11 A. Not by speaking.
`12 Q. Okay.
`13 A. If he mentions it in his declaration, then I
`14 took that at face value.
`15 Q. Your analysis of the Avast claim chart,
`16 Exhibit 4, was confined to reviewing the contents of the
`17 document; correct?
`18 A. That, plus the conclusions that Dr. Medvidovic
`19 draws from it --
`20 Q. Okay.
`21 A. -- in his declaration.
`22 Q. You did not click through to the underlying
`23 evidence that is linked in the chart to visit those
`24 documents; correct?
`25 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`
`Page 15
`1 THE WITNESS: To my recollection, I don't recall
`2 having clicked through to these websites to see if they
`3 are still active.
`4 BY MR. ARMON:
`5 Q. And do you agree with the conclusions that
`6 Dr. Medvidovic draws concerning the Avast claim chart?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. You don't have any direct knowledge regarding
`9 whether Dr. Medvidovic concluded that Avast infringes
`10 directly or by equivalents; correct?
`11 A. Could you point me to the paragraph in his
`12 declaration you are referring to there?
`13 Q. I'm not referring to a paragraph. I don't think
`14 he addresses it.
`15 A. So he says in Paragraph 130, "I have also
`16 created infringement charts of the '154 patent for Avast
`17 and F-Secure products using publicly available
`18 information."
`19 He cites Exhibits 2015 to 2016. He doesn't identify
`20 if it's direct or indirect specifically in that paragraph.
`21 Q. So you don't have -- You do not state an opinion
`22 in your declaration either regarding whether Avast
`23 infringed directly or indirectly; correct?
`24 A. I did not specify that independently, no.
`25 Q. You did not specify in your declaration which
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`Page 16
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`1 claim charts Dr. -- I'm sorry -- which claim constructions
`2 Dr. Medvidovic applied, if any, when he performed this
`3 analysis; correct?
`4 A. I didn't speak to that directly, but I did cite
`5 to his claim constructions that he used earlier in his
`6 declaration and how I agreed with those claim
`7 constructions.
`8 Q. Okay. And this chart, as characterized by
`9 Dr. Medvidovic, is based only on publicly available
`10 information; correct?
`11 A. That's how he characterizes it, and that seems
`12 to be confirmed by all -- the fact that all of his
`13 citations are to things that one could click on, on the
`14 internet.
`15 Q. And this analysis extends only to Claim 1 of the
`16 '154 patent; correct?
`17 A. Yes. That's correct.
`18 Q. So you don't have -- You do not state in your
`19 declaration an opinion or any evidence whether Avast might
`20 infringe claims other than Claim 1 of the '154 patent;
`21 correct?
`22 A. I believe that's a fair characterization.
`23 MR. ARMON: Let's turn to F-Secure. Exhibit 5.
`24 (Deposition Exhibit 5 was marked for identification
`25 by the court reporter.)
`
`Page 17
`1 MR. ARMON: Let's do Websense, Exhibit 6.
`2 (Deposition Exhibit 6 was marked for identification
`3 by the court reporter.)
`4 BY MR. ARMON:
`5 Q. All right. Two more. Dr. Goodrich, I will try
`6 to move through these quickly.
`7 You see Exhibit 5 in front of you, it's an F-Secure
`8 claim chart?
`9 A. I do.
`10 Q. You're assumption is that Dr. Medvidovic
`11 prepared this chart using publicly available information;
`12 correct?
`13 A. I believe that's what he states in his
`14 declaration.
`15 Q. And you don't know one way or the other whether
`16 F-Secure infringes directly or by equivalents; correct?
`17 A. He does not distinguish his opinions whether or
`18 not this is direct or indirect.
`19 Q. You don't state in your declaration whether it's
`20 direct or indirect infringement either; correct?
`21 A. That's correct. I don't break that out in my
`22 declaration.
`23 Q. Your declaration does not address or identify
`24 which claim constructions, if any, were applied when
`25 Exhibit 5 was prepared; correct?
`
`5 (Pages 14 - 17)
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`Page 20
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`1 A. I do cite to Dr. Medvidovic's declaration where
`2 he talks about the claim constructions, and I am presuming
`3 he's using similar consistent claim constructions for his
`4 charts.
`5 Q. And again, as with the Avast chart, this chart
`6 for F-Secure only addresses Claim 1; correct?
`7 A. That's correct.
`8 Q. And your report -- I'm sorry -- your declaration
`9 does not state any opinions regarding whether any F-Secure
`10 product might infringe any claim other than Claim 1 of the
`11 '154 patent; correct?
`12 A. Yes, it doesn't address those other claims in
`13 particular.
`14 Q. Okay. Quickly turn to Exhibit 6.
`15 A. (Indicating.)
`16 Q. As with the other charts, you did not create
`17 Exhibit 6; correct?
`18 A. That's correct.
`19 Q. Your assumption is that Dr. Medvidovic created
`20 it, but you don't know for sure; correct?
`21 A. (Indicating.)
`22 So Dr. Medvidovic references this in his Paragraph
`23 129 that it's a Finjan infringement contention, and that
`24 he is agreeing with that.
`25 Q. But he does not say that he authored Exhibit 6,
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`Page 19
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`1 does he?
`2 A. He does not say that. That's correct.
`3 Q. You don't know who created Exhibit 6?
`4 A. Just sitting here today, I don't know who
`5 created Exhibit 6.
`6 Q. Okay. You did not, as with the F-Secure and
`7 Avast charts, you did not click the URLs in the chart to
`8 visit the underlying evidence; correct?
`9 A. That's correct.
`10 Q. Your opinions concerning alleged infringement of
`11 the '154 by Avast, F-Secure, and Websense are based upon a
`12 review of these three claim charts: Exhibits 4, 5, and 6;
`13 correct?
`14 A. As well -- Yes. As well as the conclusions that
`15 Dr. Medvidovic draws from there.
`16 Q. And Exhibit 6 only addresses Claims 1 through 5
`17 of the '154 patent; correct?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. Your declaration does not state any opinions
`20 regarding infringement by Websense of any other claim of
`21 the '154 patent; correct?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. And as with the Avast and F-Secure charts, your
`24 declaration does not state whether Websense allegedly
`25 infringes the '154 patent directly or by equivalents;
`
`1 correct?
`2 A. It doesn't break that out, how the infringement
`3 is done, if it's by -- if it's direct or indirect.
`4 Q. And similarly, your declaration does not
`5 identify what claim constructions were applied when the
`6 claim chart in Exhibit 6 was prepared; correct?
`7 A. I don't specifically address that, but I presume
`8 that Dr. Medvidovic used the same claim constructions that
`9 he offers in his declaration in Paragraphs 43 through 54.
`10 Q. But again, you don't have any knowledge that
`11 Dr. Medvidovic actually created Exhibit 6, do you?
`12 A. No, I don't. But he does address Exhibit 6 in
`13 his declaration in his Paragraph 129 where he is drawing
`14 the conclusion that this is showing evidence of
`15 infringement, and that is why I draw this conclusion about
`16 him applying the same claim construction.
`17 Q. You have not used any of Avast, F-Secure's, or
`18 Websense's products; correct?
`19 A. Not to my knowledge.
`20 Q. You have not spoken with anybody concerning the
`21 functionality of Avast, F-Secure, or -- F-Secure or
`22 Websense's products for purposes of the opinions in your
`23 declaration; correct?
`24 A. I haven't spoken to any engineers about the
`25 functionality of those products in reaching my opinions.
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`Page 21
`1 Q. You have not looked at source code for any of
`2 the Avast, F-Secure, or Websense products identified in
`3 Exhibits 4, 5, and 6; correct?
`4 A. That's correct.
`5 Q. Your declaration, Paragraph 26 concludes that
`6 the claim charts: Exhibit 4, 5, and 6, demonstrate that
`7 the companies -- again, Avast, F-Secure, and Websense --
`8 were able to obtain success as a result of their licenses
`9 from Finjan for the '154 patent.
`10 A. Yes. That's correct.
`11 Q. That opinion is based upon the assumption that
`12 "A," these products infringe; and "B," that their
`13 commercial success is attributable to the '154 patent;
`14 correct?
`15 A. I wouldn't say that's a fair characterization.
`16 Instead what I'm saying is that based on my reading
`17 of the claim charts and the opinions of Dr. Medvidovic,
`18 these products are infringing; and based on the kinds of
`19 discussions of these products that are given in these
`20 claim charts, they are deriving commercial success from
`21 the '154 patent.
`22 Q. And with respect to your conclusions of
`23 commercial success, that's based upon your understanding
`24 that if Avast, F-Secure, or Websense are able to sell any
`25 product, that would infringe the '154 patent, no matter
`
`6 (Pages 18 - 21)
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`Page 22
`1 how small, that would be evidence of commercial success;
`2 correct?
`3 A. They would -- Those would be examples of
`4 commercial success. The size would only speak to the
`5 degree of success.
`6 Q. You have not undertaken any analysis of the
`7 revenue, product revenue, associated with the allegedly
`8 infringing Avast, F-Secure, or Websense products; correct?
`9 A. Besides the discussions in the Declaration of
`10 Michael Kim and what he's citing to, I did not do any
`11 additional analysis based on revenues for products.
`12 Q. And Dr. -- I'm sorry -- Mr. Kim's declaration
`13 does not identify any product revenues associated with the
`14 Avast, F-Secure, or Websense products covered by the claim
`15 charts in Exhibits 4 through 6; correct?
`16 A. As I recall, he doesn't mention any specific
`17 dollar amounts in his declaration.
`18 Q. All right. And neither you nor Mr. Kim have
`19 attempted to parse out product revenues for the products
`20 in Exhibits 4 through 6 that are attributable to usage of
`21 the '154 patent versus non-patent considerations, such as
`22 marketing or pricing or non-patent features; correct?
`23 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`24 THE WITNESS: I cannot speak to what Mr. Kim did
`25 not do as a part of his analysis. Because as I mentioned
`
`Page 24
`1 Dr. Medvidovic's analysis believe to practice the '154
`2 patent; correct?
`3 A. We both also mentioned Websense. Did you -- I
`4 don't recall you saying that in your question.
`5 Q. I'm sorry. Avast, F-Secure, and Websense.
`6 A. We also mentioned Proofpoint. That's -- Mr. Kim
`7 is mentioning Proofpoint and Amorize. Let's see. He also
`8 mentions Proofpoint and Amorize.
`9 Q. I was asking about your declaration, sir,
`10 Paragraph 26.
`11 A. (Indicating.)
`12 Q. It discusses Websense, Avast, and F-Secure.
`13 A. Yes. My Paragraph 26 addresses those three
`14 companies.
`15 Q. And your declaration did not identify any other
`16 companies that, in your opinion, practice the '154 patent;
`17 correct?
`18 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`19 THE WITNESS: My declaration also mentions in
`20 Paragraph 28, again in reference to Mr. Kim's declaration,
`21 other companies like Proofpoint and Amorize as well.
`22 BY MR. ARMON:
`23 Q. Have you analyzed -- But you have not addressed
`24 in your declaration any opinions about whether those
`25 companies practice the '154 patent; correct?
`
`Page 23
`1 earlier, I didn't speak to him directly in forming my
`2 opinion about these matters. Instead, I used his
`3 declaration in my understanding of what he was
`4 communicating in that declaration.
`5 BY MR. ARMON:
`6 Q. So let me re-ask my question and focus on you,
`7 sir.
`8 With respect to your efforts, you have not undertaken
`9 an analysis to attempt to parse out for the Avast,
`10 F-Secure, and Websense products identified in Exhibits 4
`11 through 6 what portion of revenues would be attributable
`12 to the '154 patent as opposed to other factors, such as
`13 marketing or pricing or non-patent features; correct?
`14 MR. LEE: Same objection.
`15 THE WITNESS: I did not do a separate analysis
`16 based on revenues for these companies.
`17 BY MR. ARMON:
`18 Q. And you have not undertaken a market share
`19 analysis for the market share held by the Avast, F-Secure,
`20 or Websense products identified in Exhibits 4 through 6
`21 either?
`22 A. That's correct. Beyond what I read in these
`23 declarations by others.
`24 Q. Avast, F-Secure, and Websense are the only
`25 companies identified in your report that you via
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`Page 25
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`1 A. So I cite to Dr. Medvidovic who states in his
`2 Paragraph 128 that Proofpoint and Amorize have licenses to
`3 the '154 patent.
`4 Q. Okay. Other than citing to Medvidovic, your
`5 declaration does not include any analysis or any reference
`6 to any material relating to any -- to whether any other
`7 company besides Avast, F-Secure, and Websense practice the
`8 '154 patent; correct?
`9 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`10 THE WITNESS: Other than what I stated in
`11 Paragraphs 26 and 28 and my citation to Dr. Medvidovic's
`12 declaration in general, I don't give any additional
`13 analysis claiming infringement by companies other than
`14 those three.
`15 BY MR. ARMON:
`16 Q. And you didn't cite in your declaration to other
`17 claim charts you had reviewed as to other companies
`18 besides Avast, F-Secure, and Websense with respect to the
`19 '154 patent; correct?
`20 A. I believe that is correct.
`21 Q. Paragraph 27 mentions Exhibits 2015, 2016, and
`22 2017 which you have in front of you; correct?
`23 A. That is correct.
`24 Q. Okay. Now, each of these companies have
`25 licensed the '154 patent; is that your understanding?
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
`215-241-1000 ~ 610-434-8588 ~ 302-571-0510 ~ 202-803-8830
`
`7 (Pages 22 - 25)
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`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. - Exhibit 1047 - Page 7
`Palo Alto Networks, Inc. v. Finjan, Inc., IPR2015-01979
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`

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`Page 26
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`Page 28
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`1 A. Yes, sir.
`2 Q. You have not seen the Patent License Agreements
`3 for any of Avast, F-Secure, or Websense; correct?
`4 A. To my recollection, I have not -- As I sit here
`5 today, I'm not recalling seeing those License Agreements.
`6 Q. You don't know the license amount in terms of
`7 dollar figure in each -- in each or any of those licenses;
`8 correct?
`9 A. As I sit here today, I don't recall seeing those
`10 licenses, so I wouldn't know about what dollar amounts
`11 would be included in them.
`12 Q. And similarly, you don't have an understanding
`13 of the number about of patents that Avast, F-Secure, and
`14 Websense licensed from Finjan; correct?
`15 A. As I sit here today, I don't have any
`16 recollection of knowing the number of licenses -- number
`17 of patents that they have licensed.
`18 Q. And nor do you know whether any of Avast,
`19 F-Secure, or Websense admitted infringement when they
`20 licensed the '154 patent; correct?
`21 A. As I sit here today, I don't recall seeing those
`22 licenses, so I wouldn't be able to speak to their content.
`23 Q. And you do not know whether any of the Avast,
`24 F-Secure, or Websense License Agreements separately
`25 identify a license amount for the '154 patent; correct?
`
`1 THE WITNESS: I don't understand that question.
`2 I'm sorry.
`3 BY MR. ARMON:
`4 Q. You earlier acknowledged it's common for
`5 companies in this computer securities space to sell
`6 software that includes multiple functionalities; correct?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. And you have not undertaken an independent
`9 analysis to catalog the patents and non-patent features
`10 included in the Avast, F-Secure, and Websense products
`11 identified in Exhibits 4, 5, and 6; correct?
`12 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`13 THE WITNESS: Beyond what can be inferred from
`14 the declarations of Medvidovic and Kim, I haven't done any
`15 separate analysis along those lines.
`16 BY MR. ARMON:
`17 Q. Okay. And you have not done any analysis to
`18 ascertain when Avast or F-Secure or Websense first sold
`19 products that allegedly practiced the '154 patent;
`20 correct?
`21 A. Beyond the analysis that's mentioned in the
`22 declarations of Medvidovic and Kim, I haven't done a
`23 separate analysis for that.
`24 Q. Similarly, you have not undertaken an analysis
`25 concerning whether Avast, F-Secure, or Websense continue
`
`Page 27
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`1 A. As I sit here today, I don't recall having seen
`2 those licenses, so I can't speak to their content as I sit
`3 here today.
`4 Q. You've not undertaken any analysis to uncover
`5 why Avast, F-Secure, or Websense chose to license the '154
`6 patent; correct?
`7 A. I don't understand that question.
`8 Q. You have not attempted to ascertain, for
`9 example, whether Avast, F-Secure, or Websense licensed
`10 because it was cheaper than continuing with litigation or
`11 for some other reason; correct?
`12 A. As I sit here today, I don't recall having ever
`13 seen those licenses, so I can't speak to their content.
`14 Q. You've not spoken with anybody at Finjan about
`15 the underlying reasons why Avast, F-Secure, or Websense
`16 licensed the '154 patent; correct?
`17 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`18 THE WITNESS: I don't have any recollections of
`19 such conversations.
`20 BY MR. ARMON:
`21 Q. You've also not undertaken any analysis of the
`22 number of non-patent features that may be bundled in with
`23 the Avast, F-Secure, and Websense products that you
`24 identified as infringing; correct?
`25 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`
`Page 29
`1 to sell products that are covered by the '154 patent;
`2 correct?
`3 A. Other than what can be inferred by the continued
`4 public availability of these documents that are cited in
`5 the charts, Exhibits 4, 5, and 6, and what can be inferred
`6 from the declarations of Medvidovic and Kim, I haven't
`7 done a separate analysis of whether or not those companies
`8 are currently practicing the invention of the '154 patent.
`9 Q. And you cannot reasonably infer whether the
`10 links in Exhibits 4, 5, and 6 would support an inference
`11 those products are presently available because you did not
`12 visit those links as you earlier testified; correct?
`13 MR. LEE: Objection. Form.
`14 THE WITNESS: I think that's mischaracterizing
`15 what I'm saying.
`16 It's