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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
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`May 26, 2016
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`-----------------------:
`
`APPLE, INC., :
`
` :
`
` Petitioner, :
`
` :
`
` v. : Case No. 2015-01899
`
` :
`
`CORE WIRELESS :
`
`LICENSING :
`
`S.A.R.L., :
`
` : Patent 8, 713,476
`
` Patent Owner. :
`
`-----------------------:
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Thursday, May 26, 2016
`
`Deposition of:
`
` BRAD A. MYERS, PH.D.,
`
`called for oral examination by counsel for
`
`Plaintiff, pursuant to notice, at the law firm
`
`of, Ropes & Gray, LLP, 2099 Pennsylvania Avenue,
`
`Northwest, Washington, D.C. 20006-6807, on May 26,
`
`2016, before Christina S. Hotsko, RPR, of Capital
`
`Reporting Company, a Notary Public in and for
`
`the District of Columbia Virginia, beginning at
`
`9:08 a.m., when were present on behalf of the
`
`respective parties:
`
`Capital Reporting - A Veritext Company
`(866) 448-DEPO
`
`IPR2015-01898 & IPR2015-01899
`Ex. 2012
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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
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`May 26, 2016
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`-----------------------:
`
`APPLE, INC., :
`
` :
`
` Petitioner, :
`
` :
`
` v. : Case No. 2015-01899
`
` :
`
`CORE WIRELESS :
`
`LICENSING :
`
`S.A.R.L., :
`
` : Patent 8, 713,476
`
` Patent Owner. :
`
`-----------------------:
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Thursday, May 26, 2016
`
`Deposition of:
`
` BRAD A. MYERS, PH.D.,
`
`called for oral examination by counsel for
`
`Plaintiff, pursuant to notice, at the law firm
`
`of, Ropes & Gray, LLP, 2099 Pennsylvania Avenue,
`
`Northwest, Washington, D.C. 20006-6807, on May 26,
`
`2016, before Christina S. Hotsko, RPR, of Capital
`
`Reporting Company, a Notary Public in and for
`
`the District of Columbia Virginia, beginning at
`
`9:08 a.m., when were present on behalf of the
`
`respective parties:
`
`Capital Reporting - A Veritext Company
`(866) 448-DEPO
`
`IPR2015-01898 & IPR2015-01899
`Ex. 2012
`Page 1 of 234
`
`
`
`Brad Myers, PH.D.
`
`May 26, 2016
`
`Page 2
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`O n B e h a l f o f P e t i t i o n e r :
`
` M E G A N F . R A Y M O N D , E S Q U I R E
`
` R o p e s & G r a y , L L P
`
` 2 0 9 9 P e n n s y l v a n i a A v e n u e , N o r t h w e s t
`
` W a s h i n g t o n , D . C . 2 0 0 0 6 - 6 8 0 7
`
` ( 2 0 2 ) 5 0 8 - 4 6 0 0
`
` K A T H R Y N N . H O N G , E S Q U I R E
`
` R o p e s & G r a y , L L P
`
` 1 9 0 0 U n i v e r s i t y A v e n u e , S i x t h F l o o r
`
` E a s t P a l o A l t o , C a l i f o r n i a 9 4 3 0 3 - 2 2 8 4
`
` ( 6 5 0 ) 6 1 7 - 4 0 0 0
`
`O n B e h a l f o f P a t e n t O w n e r :
`
` W A Y N E H E L G E , E S Q U I R E
`
` W A L T E R D . D A V I S , J R . , E S Q U I R E
`
`1
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`2
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`1 0
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`1 1
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`1 2
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`1 3
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`1 4
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` D a v i d s o n B e r q u e s t J a c k s o n & G o w d e y , L L P
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` 8 3 0 0 G r e e n s b o r o D r i v e , S u i t e 5 0 0
`
`1 5
`
` M c L e a n , V i r g i n i a 2 2 1 0 2
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` ( 5 7 1 ) 7 6 5 - 7 7 0 8
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`1 6
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`1 7
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`1 8
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`1 9
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`2 0
`
`2 1
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`2 2
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`Capital Reporting - A Veritext Company
`(866) 448-DEPO
`
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`Ex. 2012
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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
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`May 26, 2016
`
`Page 3
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` C O N T E N T S
`
`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`
` Counsel for Patent Owner 4
`
` Counsel for Petitioner 199
`
`FURTHER EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`
` Counsel for Patent Owner 200
`
`MYERS DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: * PAGE
`
`2050 Patent 44
`
`2051 Patent 47
`
`2052 Patent 57
`
`2053 Document 160
`
` * (Exhibits attached to transcript.)
`
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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
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`May 26, 2016
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`Whereupon,
`
` BRAD A. MYERS, PH.D.,
`
`being first duly sworn or affirmed to testify to
`
`the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
`
`truth, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PATENT OWNER
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Myers.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. I'm Wayne Helge from Davidson Berquist
`
`Jackson & Gowdey. And we are here today for
`
`deposition on two U.S. patents that are at issue
`
`before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board. And
`
`these are cases in which you've provided
`
`declarations, and I'm going to give you the IPR
`
`numbers. Are you familiar with the IPR numbers
`
`that we're here to talk about today?
`
` A. I don't have them memorized.
`
` Q. Okay. But you understand that you're
`
`here to talk about two declarations that you
`
`submitted for IPRs before the Trial Patent and
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`Ex. 2012
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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
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`May 26, 2016
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`Appeal Board, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Dr. Myers, can you please, actually, put
`
`your full name here for the record.
`
` A. Brad Allan Myers.
`
` Q. And Dr. Myers, you are employed by
`
`Carnegie Mellon; is that right?
`
` A. Carnegie Mellon University.
`
` Q. Okay. Yes. Right.
`
` Dr. Myers, have you been deposed before
`
`in an inter partes review proceeding?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Have you been deposed before for
`
`litigation?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. I assume, then, you're familiar
`
`with the general rules for deposition, which
`
`include that I can't talk over you and you can't
`
`talk over me because we have a reporter here who
`
`can only transcribe one person at a time; do you
`
`understand that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
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`Ex. 2012
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`May 26, 2016
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` Q. Okay. And do you understand that you
`
`have to answer each question with affirmative
`
`statements; head nodding, for example, or shaking
`
`of the head is not enough?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Is there any reason today why you cannot
`
`give true and accurate testimony?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. I'd like to read you something -- and to
`
`read it into the record here. And this comes from
`
`the Office Patent Trial Practice Guide. And it
`
`may be something that's unique to PTAB or
`
`something you haven't experienced before in
`
`litigation depositions. And I'm going to quote
`
`here, "Once the cross-examination of a witness has
`
`commenced and until the cross-examination of the
`
`witness has concluded, counsel offering the
`
`witness on direct examination shall not, A,
`
`consult or confer with the witness regarding the
`
`substance of the witness' testimony already given
`
`or anticipated to be given except for the purpose
`
`of conferring on whether to assert a privilege
`
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`Ex. 2012
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`May 26, 2016
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`against testifying or on how to comply with a
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`board order; or B, suggest to the witness the
`
`manner in which any question should be answered."
`
` Do you understand the guidelines that
`
`I've just read to you?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Basically means that you're not allowed
`
`to talk to your attorneys about the testimony that
`
`you've already given or that is anticipated to be
`
`given during the course of today's deposition.
`
`Does that make sense?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And do you understand that I may
`
`ask you from time to time if you've continued to
`
`comply with this guideline at the conclusion of a
`
`break, for example?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Dr. Myers, do you understand the critical
`
`date that we're looking at is July 2000 for these
`
`patents at issue in these IPRs?
`
` A. That sounds right.
`
` Q. Was that the basis for your opinion
`
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`May 26, 2016
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`testimony in your declaration?
`
` A. Well, I wrote it in my report the exact
`
`date that I used, but it sounds like that's close.
`
` Q. Okay. So if I say July 2000, the reason
`
`I'm saying that is because that corresponds to the
`
`critical date; does that make sense?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Okay. So Dr. Myers, as of July 2000, I
`
`understand from your declaration you had
`
`experience using Windows CE devices; is that
`
`right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What's your understanding of Windows CE
`
`at that time, as of July 2000?
`
` A. So Windows CE was one of Microsoft's
`
`operating systems. CE stands for Compact Edition,
`
`and it was a version of Windows that they had
`
`specifically designed for smaller devices. And
`
`they had it on a range of products from what at
`
`the time were called PDAs to what we now call
`
`smartphones to kind of small portable devices that
`
`looked like mini-laptops. And they also were
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`using it in some consumer electronics, like
`
`automobiles, and they were trying to get it into
`
`smart TVs and set-top boxes using Windows CE.
`
` Q. And do you recall roughly when Windows CE
`
`was released to the public?
`
` A. I don't have that date in mind.
`
` Q. Was it prior to July 2000?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Do you recall a version of Windows called
`
`Windows 98?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And when did that release to the public?
`
`Do you recall?
`
` A. I don't recall exactly, but it was
`
`somewhere around 1998, hence the name.
`
` Q. And why was Windows 98 not suitable for
`
`mobile devices?
`
` A. There were a variety of things that
`
`Microsoft did with Windows CE to make it more
`
`suable. One key thing was Instant on. So when
`
`you turn on a regular Windows laptop, it takes a
`
`while for it to go through all of its boot-up
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`May 26, 2016
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`sequence. And Windows CE was specifically
`
`designed to go on pretty much right away, which
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`obviously you need in a small device where you
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`want to take it out of your pocket and start doing
`
`things right away. So that was one important
`
`difference.
`
` It was also designed with a user
`
`interface more adapted to small devices. And it
`
`was also designed to try to use less power,
`
`battery power.
`
` And there were other differences, too.
`
` Q. Okay. You mentioned a moment ago at the
`
`time, back in 1998 or maybe July 2000, there was a
`
`device referred to as a PDA; is that right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And what does that stand for?
`
` A. Personal digital assistant.
`
` Q. And you had some familiarity with PDAs;
`
`is that right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You did some work with PDAs?
`
` A. Correct.
`
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`May 26, 2016
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` Q. And you mentioned that we now refer to
`
`these as smartphones; is that right?
`
` A. No. Smartphones today include most of
`
`the functionality that at the time were in PDAs.
`
`For a while, a PDA was a separate set of products.
`
`And they -- there were definitely merged devices
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`that were both PDAs and smartphones. Well, they
`
`were -- phones and PDAs kind of became
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`smartphones. And there were some smartphones at
`
`the time. But some PDAs did not have phone
`
`capabilities at the time.
`
` Q. Did they have communications capabilities
`
`at the time in July 2000?
`
` A. Some did, sure.
`
` Q. But not all of them?
`
` A. Well, they all could communicate by a
`
`wire. They -- around 2000 -- and I would really
`
`want to look this up to be sure, but as I recall,
`
`there were still devices that you had to plug in
`
`in order to have them communicate, that they
`
`didn't have a wireless communication capability.
`
`There were others that did, but I think in 2000
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`there were still some that were not wireless.
`
` Q. And what would you plug them into?
`
` A. Well, you could plug them into a computer
`
`with a wire.
`
` Q. Did the computer provide the
`
`communication capability?
`
` A. The computer enabled the PDA to
`
`communicate to the -- well, the wire enabled the
`
`PDA to communicate to the computer. So for
`
`example, the original PalmPilot, when you plugged
`
`it into a computer, would copy all the information
`
`from the PDA onto the computer so if the PDA got
`
`broken, you didn't lose your information. So it
`
`was communicating just with the computer.
`
` It was also possible to have information
`
`go from the PDA to the computer and then to the
`
`internet or to the world.
`
` Q. And would that happen through software on
`
`the PDA or would that happen through software on
`
`the computer?
`
` A. Both. You'd need both.
`
` Q. You mentioned the original PalmPilot a
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`moment ago. Do you recall the time period when
`
`that was released to the public?
`
` A. I don't recall the exact dates. It was
`
`the late 1990s.
`
` Q. Before July 2000?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So Dr. Myers, is it my understanding --
`
`or is my understanding correct that, as of
`
`July 2000, some PDAs had wireless communications
`
`capabilities and others did not?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And is it my understanding -- or is my
`
`understanding correct that as of July 2000 --
`
`well, I'll withdraw that.
`
` I want to come back to your discussion of
`
`smartphones. You've mentioned -- I believe
`
`very -- earlier on you mentioned what we refer to
`
`as PDAs or the functionality in PDAs has now been
`
`adapted by smartphones.
`
` Were there smartphones as of July 2000?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What smartphones were there in July 2000?
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` A. Well, one in particular that I know was
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`earlier than that is the IBM Simon phone, which
`
`was actually discussed by the patent during
`
`prosecution -- by the patent owner and the
`
`examiner. One of the patents that they
`
`discussed -- I forget the name of the patent
`
`owner -- I mean, the particular patent number,
`
`but --
`
` Q. Was that the Richard reference?
`
` A. I don't think so.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. It might have been. But one of the
`
`patents they discussed was the IBM smartphone
`
`called the Simon. So that was certainly one that
`
`was available during the time. And there were a
`
`few others.
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` Q. What made IBM Simon a smartphone?
`
` A. So it had regular telephony capabilities,
`
`obviously. It also had a variety of applications
`
`that you could run. It had contacts, it had
`
`e-mail, it had various kinds of messaging
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`capabilities, calendaring, so a variety of
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`functions that we would think of as a component of
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`a modern smartphone already available.
`
` Q. Do you know if it had wireless
`
`capabilities?
`
` A. It was a telephone, so of course.
`
` Q. Did it have wireless data capabilities?
`
` A. Yes. Very slow, but it did have.
`
` Q. And would it be accurate to call that a
`
`WiFi-type connection at the time?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. What would you call it?
`
` A. So it used -- WiFi hadn't been invented
`
`yet, or it certainly wasn't available for small
`
`devices. The wireless capability on the Simon
`
`used the telephone wireless connection, the
`
`telephone network, through what's called a modem.
`
`So it would send data through the telephone radio
`
`signal.
`
` Q. Do you recall the speed of that modem?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. You mentioned a term a moment
`
`ago, "applications" dealing with the IBM Simon.
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`What did you do by applications?
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So the term "applications"
`
`is one of the claim terms in the patents we're
`
`discussing. So are you asking me to construe it
`
`in the context of the patent or just in general?
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Well, Dr. Myers, I'm just saying that you
`
`used the term "applications." And I want to know
`
`what you meant when you said the term
`
`"applications."
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` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` MR. HELGE: And I want to know what the
`
`basis of that objection is.
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Well, I think the question
`
`could be used in a misleading way to suggest
`
`applications in the patent is limited to
`
`applications as he was using it in the context of
`
`one particular smartphone at the time.
`
` MR. HELGE: Okay. Well, I'm going to
`
`stand on my question because I think it's a valid
`
`question.
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`BY MR. HELGE:
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` Q. I'm just asking you to explain what you
`
`meant by the term "applications" when you talked
`
`about the IBM Simon.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: So at the time, when I was
`
`talking about the IBM Simon and not in reference
`
`to the patent at issue, applications are programs
`
`that you can run on a device that perform a set of
`
`functions for the user.
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`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Is an application the same thing as a
`
`program?
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I guess in the context of
`
`the IBM Simon and for other consumer products of
`
`the time, there's probably not any important
`
`differences. I think they're probably pretty
`
`synonymous.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Are there any differences?
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` MS. RAYMOND: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: I think an application has
`
`the connotation that it's a consumer-facing
`
`program that the -- it's a program that does
`
`something for consumers. You can use the
`
`word "program" to be things that are, like -- an
`
`operating system could be a program or other
`
`internal things that you probably wouldn't call an
`
`application. So I think program is probably a
`
`more general, broader term than application.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. So you said an operating system would be
`
`a type of program also?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. What is the difference between an
`
`operating system and an application?
`
` A. So again --
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Same objection.
`
` THE WITNESS: -- in the -- you know,
`
`not -- I guess the word "operating system" --
`
`well, it's in the spec, but it's not part of the
`
`claim terms. But again, separate from the claim
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`language, applications are -- well, an operating
`
`system is typically built into a device. It's the
`
`low-level part of the software that enables most
`
`of the functions that are needed by an
`
`application. I could certainly come up with a
`
`much more formal definition, but kind of in
`
`general terms, it's thought of as the low-level
`
`software that kind of comes with a device.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Did you say it enables the functions
`
`needed for applications?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And what did you mean by that?
`
` A. So applications in general need to do
`
`things like store stuff, communicate using
`
`whatever networking is available, access the
`
`screen, access the input devices, like the
`
`keyboard or printing device or touchscreen.
`
` And typically, the operating system
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`includes the device drivers that enables all of
`
`those pieces of hardware to be used.
`
` Q. Are you providing that testimony on the
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`basis of the IBM Simon as well, or is that more
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`general?
`
` A. I think that those descriptions of what
`
`an operating system is apply pretty generally and
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`are probably still pretty much valid today.
`
` Q. Now, you provided some testimony about
`
`what you meant by the term "application," and you
`
`said that you were providing an explanation based
`
`on the IBM Simon. How does your description of an
`
`application differ if you're talking about the
`
`'020 or the '476 patents?
`
` A. So I haven't been asked to provide
`
`constructions. And I have been informed that the
`
`parties agreed that all these terms should have
`
`their plain and ordinary meaning. So I was just
`
`using the plain and ordinary meaning as a person
`
`of ordinary skill in the art would understand the
`
`claim terms like "application."
`
` Q. So the description that you just gave to
`
`me for application, based on the IBM Simon, is
`
`that consistent with the plain and ordinary
`
`meaning that would have been applied by a person
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`of ordinary skill in the art as of July 2000?
`
` A. I believe it's consistent with what
`
`somebody would understand an application to be. I
`
`wouldn't try to provide that as a formal
`
`construction that describes kind of the complete
`
`balance of what an application would be required
`
`to have in order to meet the patent, but certainly
`
`that would -- the kind of things I said would be
`
`included in what a person of ordinary skill in the
`
`art would have understood as of July 2000.
`
` Q. You mentioned a moment ago that
`
`application is the user-facing program; is that
`
`right?
`
` A. That sounds like a reasonable summary of
`
`some of the things I said.
`
` Q. And what did you mean by "user-facing"?
`
` A. So we're talking about devices that
`
`people can use. And there are some, as we had
`
`said a little while ago, some programs that are
`
`internal that people would never really see, and
`
`other programs that a person using the device
`
`would see running or see their name on menus or
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`see their name in the icons or something like
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`that.
`
` So it's generally the idea that this is a
`
`program that users can run, they can see it, they
`
`can benefit from the functions it provides.
`
` Q. You mentioned a term a moment ago "icon."
`
`What is an icon?
`
` A. So icons have a variety of uses. It's
`
`generally used to denote small graphic element, a
`
`small piece of graphics, a small picture or
`
`something like that, but represents something else
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`in the computer.
`
` Q. And you also mentioned a term "menu."
`
`What's a menu?
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So again, menu is one of
`
`the claim terms. So I wasn't asked to construe
`
`any of the claim terms, just give it its plain and
`
`ordinary meaning as a person of ordinary skill in
`
`the art would have understood it at the time of
`
`patent.
`
` So that's what I did in terms of using
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`those terms to understand how the art that I
`
`described would be -- would map to the claim
`
`terms.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Okay. And what is that plain and
`
`ordinary meaning as of July of 2000 for the
`
`term "menu"?
`
` A. So I think menus include a list of, I
`
`guess, functions, a list of operations, that -- I
`
`guess it's not just that. It could also be a list
`
`of values. So it's kind of a list of anything
`
`that enables the user to pick one or more of the
`
`items.
`
` Q. So they have to be selectable?
`
` A. I can't imagine -- well, there are menus
`
`where the items are disabled, so -- and a menu --
`
`you can certainly have a menu where all the items
`
`are disabled and, therefore, you can't select them
`
`at this time.
`
` So like I said, I really wasn't trying to
`
`come up with a formal construction that describes
`
`the entire balance of what these terms mean in the
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`context of the patent. Normally, items in menus
`
`are selectable, but I certainly wouldn't rule out
`
`something present in a computer where nothing was
`
`selectable to say that can't be classified as a
`
`menu.
`
` Q. Dr. Myers, you would agree that an
`
`application can include tasks, wouldn't you?
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I probably wouldn't use the
`
`word "tasks."
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. What would you use?
`
` A. Functions, operations.
`
` Q. What is a function as you've just
`
`described it, or as you've just used the term?
`
` A. Sure.
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I guess functions are
`
`a claim term as well. So again, I'm --
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Just to be clear, Dr. Myers, I'm not
`
`asking you for a construction. I'm asking you
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`what you meant by the term as you have just used
`
`it. You told me that I was wrong for using
`
`"tasks" and you said "function" is a better term.
`
` I just want to know what you -- what
`
`meaning you ascribe to the term "function."
`
` A. Sure.
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: So outside the patent, just
`
`in general, as I was talking about it a minute
`
`ago, a function would be, well, an operation, a
`
`thing that you could do in a computer program.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. When you say you could do, do you mean
`
`the user?
`
` A. The user would -- you know, if the user
`
`selected the function, then it would do something
`
`in the program.
`
` Q. Okay. So a user has to select a
`
`function; is that right?
`
` A. Well, we were talking about in the
`
`context of a menu. So if a user selects a
`
`function, then it would do something.
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` Q. Is there any characteristic of an
`
`application that would allow you, as of July 2000,
`
`to distinguish one application from another? Does
`
`that make sense?
`
` A. I think what you're asking is, if there
`
`were two applications on a device, how would the
`
`user tell them apart?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. There are a variety of ways. Typically,
`
`applications have names. Typically, they also
`
`have a program -- a program file location,
`
`depending on the device.
`
` So probably the most general thing is
`
`that they have names, and often you invoke them by
`
`selecting their names. They may also have the
`
`name displayed while they're running somewhere so
`
`that you can tell that it's running.
`
` There are a variety of ways that
`
`different devices have presented applications so
`
`users can distinguish them.
`
` Q. Is it correct to say that as of
`
`July 2000, an application could have two different
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`windows?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. And so even though two different windows
`
`are displayed, it could be the same application;
`
`is that right?
`
` MS. RAYMOND: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: There were many
`
`applications that had multiple windows.
`
`BY MR. HELGE:
`
` Q. Is the window the same thing as -- well,
`
`I'll withdraw that.
`
` Is the window the same thing as a
`
`function?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. They're different?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. How are they different?
`
` A. So windows are generally understood to
`
`mean -- and again, this is generally not with
`
`respect to the patent terms. Windows are
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`generally considered to be an area of the screen,
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`typically rectangular, but not necessarily, in
`
`which a variety of functions and a variety of
`
`activities and data can be displayed and executed.
`
` So there's really no relation between
`
`functions and windows. Windows are an area of the
`
`screen and functions are something the computer
`
`executes.
`
` Q. So you said that was in the context of
`
`generally and not with respect to the patent. How
`
`would your answer differ if we're talking
`
`specifically about the patent?
`
` A. Well, again, I wasn't asked to do a
`
`construction specifically of the term "window"
`
`with respect to the patent. The patent has the
`
`term "summary window," I think. Something like
`
`that. And it provides examples of what that
`
`means. If you give me the patent, I'll show you
`
`what I'm referring to.
`
` So I think the patent has a very
`
`particular set of things it says about the summary
`
`window that wouldn't necessarily be the same as
`
`Capital Reporting - A Veritext Company
`(866) 448-DEPO
`
`IPR2015-01898 & IPR2015-01899
`Ex. 2012
`Page 28 of 234
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`Brad Myers, PH.D.
`
`May 26, 2016
`
`Page 29
`
`just the general understanding of the word
`
`"window."
`
` Q. Okay. Dr. Myers, what did you do to
`
`prepare for this deposition?
`
` A. So I re-read my reports and all of the --
`
`well, certainly all of the main references that I
`
`used and skimmed a large number of other
`
`references that I mentioned. And I discussed with
`
`counsel the prior art.
`
` Q. Which were the main references that you
`
`reviewed? Do you recall?
`
` A. I don't recall the names, but it's the
`
`main ones that I discussed. I'd be happy to point
`
`them out if you hand me my report.
`
` Q. Schnarel?
`
` A. Sure.
`
` Q. Aberg?
`
` A. Probably. Sounds right.
`
` Q. How about Nason?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Smith?
`
` A. Sure.
`
`Capital Reporting - A Veritext Company
`(866) 448-DEPO
`
`IPR2015-01898 & IPR2015-01899
`Ex. 2012
`Page 29 of 234
`
`
`
`Brad Myers, PH.D.
`
`May 26, 2016
`
`Page 30
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` Q. Wagner?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Yerkovick?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you said you re
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