UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`APPLE INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`COMARCO WIRELESS TECHNOLOGIES, INC.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`Case No. IPR2015-01879
`
`U.S. Patent No. 8,492,933
`
`DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT OF NATHANIEL J. DAVIS, IV, Ph., D.,
`
`PATENT OWNER'S EXHIBIT 2002
`
`Comarco Ex. 2002
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`

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`,«-~>».,‘
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`,......
`
`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
`
`Page 1
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`1
`2
`
`Petitioner,
`
`_v_
`COMARCO WIRELESS
`TECHNOLOGIES,
`INC. ,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`3 APPLE INC.,
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10 f testimony of NATHANIEL
`
`IPR2015-01879
`Case No.
`U.s. Patent No.
`3,492,933
`DEPOSITION UPON
`ORAL EXAMINATION
`or
`NATHAI:2Z,E’}L P31);..
`
`113318-VIS,
`
`WITNESS
`
`I N D E X
`
`NATHANIEL J. DAVIS,
`MR. QUINN
`
`IV, PhD
`
`E x H I 13 I '1: s
`(NONE MARKED)
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`Page 3
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`PAGE
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`J. DAVIS, Iv, Ph.D taken stenographically by and
`11
`12 before JOANNE L. SEKELLA, a Certified Court Reporter
`
`13 and Notary Public of the State of New Jersey, at the
`14 offices of O'MELVENY & MYERS, LLP, Times Square
`
`7 Times Square, New York, New York, on
`15 Tower,
`16 Wednesday, April 13, 2016, commencing at
`17
`approximately 9:35 21.11:.
`18
`19
`20
`21
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`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`3
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`cquinnlé grahamcurtin . com
`9 Attorneys for Comarco Wireless Technologies, Inc.
`1°
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`
`H
`1 NATHANIEL J. DAVIS, IV,Pl1D,
`2 residing at 4515 _South State Route 202, Tipp City,
`3 Qhio 45271, having been duly sworn, testified as
`4 f°“°‘“*
`.
`5
`EXAMINATION BY MR. QUINN.
`: Q. Good mo(1;iti1i11%, D3. PaVlS.d/5£S‘yOLll(I1(éV(\/1,
`8
`1;/);r:2l1en;: ilsechgrfleos ' umn, an
`iepresen
`omarco
`gles‘
`9
`I apologize, I forgot to bring holne
`10
`your resume last night.
`I assumed it was attached
`11
`to your declaration. So some of these questions may
`12
`be already answered by your resume, but I should ask
`13
`them anyway.
`14
`Have you ever testified before?
`15 A.
`I have.
`
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`2 3
`24
`25
`
`16 Q. When and where?
`17 A. Are you talking deposition or trial or
`18 what?
`19 Q. Good question. Deposition‘?
`20 A. This is my ninth deposition, and so
`21
`far I've testified at trial four times.
`22 Q. Okay.
`23
`And that's all reflected on your
`24
`resume, I presume?
`25
`YES.
`
`Min—U~Script®
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`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose ~ (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
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`(1) Pages 1 — 4
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`Comarco Ex. 2002
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`Page 5
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`1 Q. And the type of cases and the
`2
`technology involved?
`3 A. On my resume?
`4 Q. Yes.
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. Have you ever testified before with
`'7
`regard to power supplies for portable electronic
`8
`devices?
`9 A. What I've testified about and is
`10
`related to this case is the communication circuitry
`11
`that wraps around the power supply in this asserted
`12
`patent, and the technology associated with that
`13
`circuitry.
`14 Q. What case or cases was that?
`15 A. Almost all of them in some respect.
`16 Q. Okay.
`17
`Now, you also prepared a declaration in
`18
`this case.
`Is that correct? I hand it to you.
`19 A. Yes, I did.
`20 Q. And could you tell me generally about
`21
`how you went about preparing that declaration?
`22 A. Do you want to tag this or anything or
`23
`are we good?
`24 Q.
`If you'd like. Hold onjust a second.
`25
`For the record, your declaration has
`
`been previously marked as Apple 1010.
`1
`2 A. All right. So ask your question
`3
`again. I'm sorry.
`4 Q.
`I think my question was, could you tell
`5 me generally how you went about preparing your
`6
`declaration?
`' 7 A. After reading the asserted patent, the
`8
`933 patent, I gathered material that I reviewed as
`9
`potential prior art documents. And based on those,
`10
`I selected the prior art that I thought was the most
`11
`powerful and then used that to draft my declaration.
`12 Q. Did you conduct the prior art search
`13
`yourself?
`14 A. Parts of it, yes.
`15 Q. What parts did you conduct?
`16 A. Once I was looking for prior art, I
`17
`attempted to do a Google search. And I also used —-
`18 my school has got a subscription to IEEE Explore
`19
`database, so I tried to gather information from
`20
`those sources.
`
` Page 6
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`I.
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`K
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`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
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`Page 7
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`don't have a good search mechanism for that myself,
`1
`so I asked counsel if they could —— had done any
`2
`prior art searching and if they could provide me
`3
`4 with any of those results, which they did.
`5 Q. Okay.
`6
`And which counsel ~~ excuse me.
`7
`Could you identify the counsel you are
`8
`referring to there, please?
`9 A. O'Melveny.
`10 Q. Who at O'Melveny?
`I-‘ P‘
`A.
`It was Mr. Williamson, Mr. Brian.
`There were several others.
`I don't remember the
`
`--..\
`
`names at this point.
`Q. Okay.
`And did they point you to certain prior
`art?
`
`A. Yes, they did.
`Q.
`In particular, Allen, Castleman and
`Breen?
`
`A. Among others.
`Q. Now, you mentioned that you drafted
`your declaration.
`Is that right? Did you actually
`write it?
`
`In terms of word processing, no. The
`A.
`document itself was held under the O'Melveny filing
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`Page 8 1
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`system, what have you. So I created drafts and
`1
`edited and made comments, fed that back to them, and
`2
`they kept the document current. And I added stuff
`3
`and they would append it to it.
`4
`5 Q. Okay.
`6 A. The one section I didn't draft is the
`7
`Section 3 on legal standards, because that's very
`8
`important and I'm not a lawyer.
`I asked them to
`9
`draft this section, brief me on it, if you will,
`10
`give me the tutorial so that I understood what was
`11
`here, especially in light of changes that occur
`12
`from, you know, over time based on court rulings and
`13 whatnot. And then I had them append that in here.
`14 The rest of the report was my creation.
`15 Q. Okay.
`16
`So you sat down and did the first draft
`17
`and sent it to O'Melveny?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. And did they make comments in writing
`20
`or --
`
`The weakness with the IEEE Explore
`21
`database is it tends to be journal and conference
`22
`papers and not patents. And counsel told me that
`23
`24 what is better prior art in cases like this going
`25
`back before the patent board is patents. And I
`
`21 A. Nothing in writing. We would have
`22
`phone conferences about what I was doing, where I
`23 was headed.
`24 Q. Okay.
`25 A. Things of that nature.
`
`Pages 5 — 8 (2)
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`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose — (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
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`lvlin-ii-.‘-icript-3?)
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`Comarco Ex. 2002
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`

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`Page 11
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`Q. Okay.
`And power detection circuit 74 is
`connected to the incoming AC power or DC power,
`correct?
`
`A. Yes. In Figure 4, they have dotted
`lines showing that connection.
`Q. And it's, obviously, sampling the
`incoming power before the power goes to the AC to DC
`converter, correct?
`A. Yes, that's correct.
`Q. And depending upon the type of power
`the power detention circuit detects, it causes a
`switch to close -- excuse me. Let me start that
`
`over again.
`Depending upon the type of power that
`the power detection circuit detects, it will cause
`either switch 75 to close if it's detecting incoming
`AC power, correct?
`A.
`In essence, I believe you are correct.
`Q. Well, that's what Figure 4 shows,
`doesn't it?
`A. Yes. And that's what the text of the
`
`specification says, as well.
`Q. Referring to the disclosure on column 5
`starting around line 5?
`
`Page 12
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Okay.
`And alternatively, if the power
`detection circuit 74 determines that the adapter is
`drawing DC power, it will cause circuit 76 to close?
`A.
`In the alternative, yes.
`Q. And that would activate DC
`identification circuit 78, right?
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And if incoming AC voltage is
`determined, the power detection circuit will
`activate AC identification circuit 77, right?
`A. Yes, that's out of line 19ish, 19 and
`20 in column 5.
`
`Q. Okay.
`And these circuits, they're
`obviously -- the power detention circuitry, which I
`will refer to —- excuse me.
`
`When I say "power detection circuitry,"
`I mean power detection circuit 74, switches 75 and
`76, and AC identification circuit 77 and DC
`identification circuit 78.
`Is that okay with you?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Objection to form.
`THE WITNESS: Power detection circuit
`
`is identified in Figure 4 as just Block 74.
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`APPle Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
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`Page 9
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`Q. All right.
`So then this is primarily —— this
`declaration, putting aside Section 3 as you
`mentioned, is primarily your work product?
`A. Yes.
`
`Is that correct?
`Q.
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Have you had occasion to review your
`declaration recently in preparation for this
`deposition?
`A. Yes, I have.
`Q.
`Is there anything you would like to
`amend, supplement, change, add to?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Objection.
`BY MR. QUINN:
`I am trying to think of a number of
`Q.
`synonyms for change.
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Object to form.
`TI-IE WITNESS: I can probably come up
`with grammatical errors, but, otherwise, I will
`stand by my declaration.
`BY MR. QUINN:
`Q. Okay.
`is
`Let's start with the Allen patent.
`the Allen patent a patent you found or O'Melveny
`
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`found for you?
`A.
`I think they provided it to me.
`Q. This has been previously marked by
`Apple as Exhibit 1003, if memory serves. Feel free
`to refer to your declaration, Dr. Davis.
`A. Sure.
`
`I think your discussion of Allen starts
`Q.
`around --
`
`A. Page 30.
`Q.
`-— 30. In any event, Allen describes a
`power adapter which is capable of transforming
`either alternating current or direct current into
`regulated DC current that is supplied to an
`electronic device, generally speaking.
`Is that
`right‘?
`A. They describe a system that includes
`that power adapter.
`Q. And that power adapter has a circuit
`which determines whether the adapter is drawing AC
`or DC power, correct?
`A. Yes, that's correct.
`Q. And referring to Figure 4, that would
`be power detection -— I think power detection
`circuit 74?
`A. Yes.
`
`I-‘Ol.O(1)\lO'1U!i¥>LONl-‘
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`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose ~ (973) 992-7650
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`(3) Pages 9 — 12
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`Comarco Ex. 2002
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`Page 13
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`l-‘<DLOG)\lO3U'Y-hh)l\)l-‘
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`BY MR. QUINN:
`Q. Okay.
`Do you have any problem with referring
`to -- calling the combination of the power detection
`circuit 74, the switches 75 and 76 and AC
`identification circuit 77 and DC identification
`
`circuit 78 power source detennination or detection
`circuitry in Allen?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Objection to form.
`THE WITNESS: I would be more
`
`comfortable if we just characterized it as it's
`labeled in Figure 4, please.
`BY MR. QUINN:
`Q. Okay, that's fine.
`Now, is power detection circuit 74
`always on while the adapter is drawing power from
`either an AC or DC source?
`A.
`I don't think that's addressed in the
`
`patent per se.
`Q. All right.
`Well, what's your understanding as a
`person of more than the ordinary skill in the art as
`to what Allen discloses with regard to whether or
`not the power detection circuit is always on while
`the adapter is drawing power from an AC or DC
`
`HOKDCD\‘l0\U'|s|=~(A)|\)l-'
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`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
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`Page 15
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`Wait a minute.
`
`Go ahead. Take your time.
`33?
`
`0.>'.O.>v.O.>
`
`Paragraph 33.
`Okay.
`. You state that, "A person of ordinary
`skill in the art would understand that the signal
`output by either AC identification circuit 77 or DC
`identification circuit 78 is an analog signal,"
`correct?
`
`A. You said paragraph 33, and that has
`nothing to do with what youjust said. Paragraph 33
`is back in Section 3 on legal standards.
`Q.
`I'm Sony, Page 33, excuse me. It's
`paragraph 71.
`I apologize, sir.
`A. Hang on a second and let me read this,
`and then I will get back with you.
`Q. Sure.
`A. All right, I've read the paragraph.
`Can you ask your question again?
`Q. Yeah. In paragraph 71 you state that,
`"A person of ordinary skill would understand that
`the signal output by either AC identification
`circuit 77 or DC identification circuit 78 to an
`
`electronic device on line 42 is analog," correct?
`
`
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`Page 16
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`source?
`A.
`I don't think I can give you an
`opinion on that.
`Q. All right.
`Now, power -— or excuse me.
`AC identification circuit 77 or DC
`
`identification circuit 78 sends a signal out line 42
`to an electronic device, correct?
`A. The patent specifically recites,
`picking up on, like, line 21, "If the power
`detection circuit 74 detects incoming AC power,
`switch 75 is closed and the AC identification
`
`circuit 77 is activated, thereby, transmitting a
`data signal on line 42 indicating that DC power
`carried on the DC power line 38 is generated from AC
`source." And it has similar wording for if DC is
`detected by Block 74.
`Q. Okay.
`And you are just reading from column 5
`of the patent there, correct?
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Okay.
`Allen -- paragraph 33 of your
`declaration you state that, "A person of ordinary
`skill..." --
`
`l-‘OlOO3~'lG\U1nI:-UJf\Jl-I
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`A. No, I said it could be -— someone
`could understand it could either be an analog or --
`data signal, or digital data signal.
`The quote that I have, which is in the
`middle of Page 33, "A person of ordinary skill in
`the art would understand Allen's disclosure of a
`
`‘data signal on line 42‘ to mean either an analog
`data signal or a digital data signal."
`Q. Okay.
`A. Because those are the only two options
`you got.
`Q. All right, but you go on to say a
`person of ordinary —— excuse me.
`Okay.
`And does Allen disclose explicitly that
`the signal output on line 42 from either AC
`identification circuit 77 or DC identification
`
`circuit 78 is analog?
`A. He just discloses that it's a data
`signal.
`Q. Okay.
`Referring to Figure 5 —- or excuse me,
`column 5 of Allen starting around line 43, Allen
`discloses a digital implementation of the data
`signal output on line 42, doesn't he?
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`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose - (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
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`Min~l.i-Script-iw
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`Comarco Ex. 2002
`
`

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`r-""\
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`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
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`Page 17
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`Page 19
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`1 A. Wait a minute.
`
`1
`
`identification circuit 77 or DC identification
`
`2 Q. Sure, take your time.
`3 A. What was your -~
`4 Q. Column 5 around line 42, starting
`5
`around line 42.
`6 A. That -- those several lines there talk
`7
`about one way of implementing the identification
`8
`circuit, either 77 or 78, using a DS2501 chip, and
`9
`it notes that, and I will quote, "This circuit is
`10
`capable of generating a 64 bit data word to provide
`11
`data relating to numerous parameters of the power
`12
`adapter."
`13
`Very clearly, that portion of 77 or 78
`14
`is dealing with digital, but that doesn't mean
`15
`necessarily that signal 42, the data output or the
`16
`signal output is either/or. You can take a digital
`17
`signal and convert it into a pulse with modulated
`18
`signal of ~- an amplitude modulated signal, where
`19
`the pulse with or the voltage levels kind of take
`20
`the same kind of information, rather than just a
`21
`digital transmission.
`22 Q. Well, with regard to the implementation
`23
`using the DS2501 circuit, what kind of information
`24 would that signal be providing to the electronic
`25
`device?
`
`circuit 78 is sent to the electronic device,
`2
`correct?
`3
`4 A. Yes, that's correct.
`5 Q. And the electronic device uses that
`6
`signal to optimize, for want of another expression
`7
`or word, its power use, correct?
`8 A. That was a goal of the patent.
`9 Q. Okay.
`_
`10
`Now, what would happen if the AC
`11
`identification signal generated by circuit 77 with a
`12 DC identification signal generated by 78 stopped?
`13 A. Don't know. The patent doesn't
`14
`address something like that, and I didn't study it.
`15 Q. Well, wouldn't that indicate to the
`16
`electronic -- excuse me.
`17
`If the AC identification signal or the
`18 DC identification signal ceased wouldn't that
`19
`indicate to the electronic device that either it
`20 wasn't receiving power or was receiving the wrong
`21
`sort of power?
`22 A.
`In a broad sense, it might. The
`23
`situation is not clearly defined, in my opinion,
`24
`because you are asking if something broke what would
`25
`happen.
`
`Page 18
`
`Page 20
`
`1 A. Data related to numerous parameters of
`2
`the power adapters is what it says.
`3 Q. And you are saying that could implement
`4
`using analog circuitry?
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. How would one do that?
`7 A.
`I just explained that. You could have
`8
`a signal that has different voltage levels that
`9
`correspond to different parameters.
`10 Q. When you say "parameters," what do you
`11 mean by that?
`12 A. Whatever, you know, that Allen might
`13 want to convey.
`14 Q. Such as the adapter's power
`15
`capabilities or output capabilities?
`16 A. Potentially.
`17 Q. Model number?
`18 A. Potentially.
`19 Q. And how many analog circuits would it
`20
`take to make the determination as to what a
`21
`particular model number was or output voltage
`22
`capabilities were of the adapter?
`23 A. Don't know. Didn't consider that.
`24 Q. Okay.
`25
`Now, the signal output from either AC
`
`K
`
`1 Q. Actually, my point is, and I am not an
`2
`electrical engineer, but the way I understand Allen
`3
`is the power source identification circuit 74 and AC
`4
`identification circuit 77 and DC identification
`5
`circuit -- or DC identification circuit 78 are on,
`6
`or active, so long as the adapter is plugged into an
`7 AC or DC source. Is that your understanding?
`8 A. You ask what happens if they ~- if
`I
`9
`they -- neither one output any information.
`10
`haven't studied that in any detail to render any
`11
`conclusive opinion, so I think I'd ratherjust leave
`12
`it at that.
`13 Q. So you don't have an understanding, one
`14 way or another, whether or not the power source
`15
`identification circuitry in the adapter is active as
`16
`long as the adapter is plugged into an AC or DC
`17
`source, right?
`18
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Object to form.
`19
`THE WITNESS: I don't think that was
`20
`your question.
`I think you asked what would
`21
`happen --
`22
`BY MR. QUINN:
`23 Q. That was one question, yeah, what would
`24
`happen if the AC or DC identification circuitries
`25
`stopped producing a signal to the electronic device?
`
`lVlin—U-Script®
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`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose - (973) 992-7650
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`Comarco Ex. 2002
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`Page 21
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`A. Yeah, I think from -— A, I didn't
`address that in my report, so, you know, I don't
`think I should really be rendering an opinion on
`that at this point. So I think I'll leave it at
`that rather than speculating on interpreting
`something I haven't studied.
`Q. Okay.
`Let's move to the Breen patent, which
`has been previously marked by Apple as Exhibit 1004,
`I believe.
`
`MR. QUINN: Do you need a copy, Brett?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: If you have an extra
`copy.
`MR. QUINN: I brought extra copies.
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Great, thank you.
`I'm sorry, did you identify that? That was
`Apple—l004?
`MR. QUINN: Idid. Am I right’?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: I think you are
`right. That's what I recall.
`MR. QUINN: Okay.
`BY MR. QUINN:
`Q. Now, Breen generally describes a power
`supply system for an electronic device, such as a
`laptop or a cell phone, correct?
`
`i
`
`Page 22
`
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Obieetto form.
`THE WI'l'Ni-‘£3: lt dE.‘='t’.'I'ibES a power‘
`rnanagernent :=:ehente for those Iypes oi‘ 5ft".‘il'Elt1R, yes.
`BY MR. OLIINN:
`
`Q. Okay.
`And Breen t.-onteanplates that one or more
`entlerrial or peripheral adapters or batteries will be
`connected to an electronic device. either singularly
`or in contbination. correct‘!
`MR. Wl|-L|AM5-ION: Object to form.
`'|'|-ll,‘ W lTh'ESS: Breen E!.ilD‘t'.-‘:1, as $i'Iuo'v.~.t1|
`
`in. let's: say. Figure 2, the possibility of one or
`more powering devices being |.l.‘1'€Ci
`to supply power to
`the powered or eleelronie device.
`BR’ Pv1R.OLllT~iN:
`Q. Okay.
`And :'elieI'ri:Ig to |"igtIt'-E 1, since 3'01:
`brought it up, iilii il'|di(:HlE5 an At‘ alternating
`current inpnl to —— slrilte that.
`Referring to |"ignre ’l,eaitj.«'ouide11tit§.=
`bloc]-; 1240'?
`
`A. {‘o|n:nn 6 of the patent starting at
`line H] refers back to Figure 2. and says, "The
`fir:-ll and second power periplierulfi ntnnbers 130 and
`24(}rni1g,= be eotineuled to the device I01 in '-.'aI'ioIt.~:
`
`HO<.Om~IG\Ulih-UJIOI-‘
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`22
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`24
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`
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`
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`14
`15
`16
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`as
`19
`20
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`
`32?.’
`
`izz.
`524
`!-15
`
`1
`2
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`8
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`10
`
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`23
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`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`
`5
`6
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`
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`14
`lls
`'16
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`
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
`
`Page 23
`
`In one embodiment, a first
`arrangements.
`arrangement may include a first power adapter 230,
`receiving power from the wall outlet 105."
`Q. Okay.
`So 230 is an AC to DC adapter or power
`supply?
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And 240 is a battery, correct?
`A. That's how it's described there in
`column 6.
`
`Q. An external battery or battery external
`to the electronic device?
`
`In one -- it says on line 18, same
`A.
`column 6, "In one embodiment, a second arrangement
`may include the second power peripheral 240..."
`Q. All right.
`A.
`"...having sufficient stored energy
`being directly connected to the device 101 ."
`So that to me would be a battery.
`Q. Right.
`And that's external to the electronic
`
`device, correct?
`A. Maybe.
`Q. Are you suggesting that it's part of
`the electronic device?
`
`Page 24
`
`I think you could probably be either a
`A.
`physically external battery or the battery that's
`connected on the back of a laptop, for example.
`think either would fit.
`
`I
`
`Q. Okay.
`And referring again to Figure 2 of
`Breen, or to column 6 as you were before, the
`adapter 230 is connected to the battery 240 in
`Figure 2, correct?
`A. That's what Figure 2 depicts.
`Q. Okay.
`And there's a cable —— is a cable
`
`connects -— does cable connect the adapter 230 to
`240?
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And that cable has -— excuse me.
`And then, referring again to Figure 2,
`the battery 240 is, in turn, connected to the
`electronic device 101, correct?
`A. Yes, they're —— in each case, 240 has
`got two inputs and two outputs; one is the power
`being provided on lines 220 or 225. The other is
`the signaling line 250.
`Q. Okay.
`And the signaling line 250 carries a
`
`Pages 21 - 24 (6)
`
`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose - (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
`
`_J
`
`i\iin—U-$cript®
`
`Comarco Ex. 2002
`
`

`
`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
`
`Page 25
`
`power source identification signal, correct?
`1
`2 A. That's correct.
`3 Q. PSID in the parlance of Breen?
`4 A. Yes.
`
`5 Q. And in Breen's power managementsystem,
`6
`each peripheral device has its own PSID, correct?
`7 A. Potentially, yes.
`I think.
`8 Q. And your understanding of PSID is a
`9
`digital signal, correct?
`10 A. No. In this case, he very clearly
`11
`produces a -— an analog signal.
`12 Q. Let me take a step back. The PSID --
`13 A. As in Figure 3 -—
`14 Q. We'll get to that in a second.
`15
`But a PSID is ~— what is a PSID -—
`16
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Object to form.
`17
`BY MR. QUINN:
`18 Q.
`—— in Breen's scheme?
`19 A.
`It would be easier to answer with my
`20 where it's all highlighted.
`21
`Column three, line 8ish, Breen
`22
`identifies power supply identifier as PSID.
`23 Q. And a PSID contains information for
`24
`each power peripheral, correct?
`25 A. Yes, that's the end of the sentence.
`
`1 A. Yes, I do.
`2 Q. Okay.
`3
`And would you agree then that the PSID
`4
`information is encoded or embodied in a
`
`semiconductor chip?
`5
`6 A. At that part of the circuit, it may be
`7
`stored in a semi conductor chip that doesn't, as I
`8
`discussed with Allen, imply that it's transmitted as
`9
`a digital signal.
`10 Q. So is it your testimony that Breen
`11
`discloses that PSID infonnation can be transmitted
`12
`as an analog signal?
`13 A. Yes, using Figure 3 as an example.
`14 Q. Would you explain that?
`15 A. Yeah, that generates a power event and
`16
`then causes the controller 260 in the external
`17
`electronic device to update its information.
`18 Q. So, are you saying that a power event
`19
`signal is the same as a PSID signal in Breen?
`20 A. What I'm saying is that, you know, how
`21
`the information is transmitted from the power
`22
`adapter to the electronic device does not require it
`23
`to be done digitally. Within the power adapter 230
`24
`or 240, it may be stored digitally in one of the
`25 DS250l or 2 chips, but that does not imply that it
`
`
`
`
`
`Page :16
`
`Page 28
`
`1 Q. And what sort ot':'n.l'ormation can a PSID
`2
`contain‘! I will ret'er you to column 4 at the bottom
`:3
`starting around 63 and moving over to colutnn 5. but
`4
`you are Free to look au;,rwher-e you'd liite.
`5 A.
`lfyon go up to coittnut 5 at the top.
`6
`really starting at line 1.
`it gives examples to
`'4
`identity various types ol'pot-.'er Suppl:-.' sottrces
`8
`present. information included in a PSID i'or eaclt
`9
`type
`"...l’or each pot-t-er peripheral. niay include
`1o
`attributes. suclt as ‘t"t'.t1l‘li1gEi"‘r()l[t.lgE'.-"CL|l't'EI'll rating.
`11
`peripheral niattul"ac.turer._ part ntttnber. conritry oi"
`12
`origin nnd similar otl'ters."
`13 Q. Dltagr.
`14
`And that ':nl-'o:-ntation is contained or‘
`15
`embodied in the 2-'-Et1'Jit:()ttdLtt:lUI' chip. correct?
`A.
`It's contained or embodied in the
`PSID.
`
`has to be transmitted digitally.
`1
`.1 Q. What would be itneoived in taking
`3
`inforination wltielt is stored digitally and
`rt
`lt'El.l'tSf€|'l'ltlg it in analog. ii'1 understand your
`5
`statement correelljr?
`6 A.
`'l'|tere are dilTerent rnodulation
`'3
`techniques that are in|terentl_i,t analog that can be
`a
`used to cottrey i|ti'orrnatiot1 without having to go to
`9 wltat I would refeI' to as at binary digital
`to
`Iransrnission selierne.
`11
`MR. QLJINN: {Jan l lustre the answer two
`.12
`questions back?
`13
`{Wl1e:'enport. the following is head back
`14
`by the court reporter:
`15
`"QUESTION: So are you saying that a
`to
`power event signal is the saine as a PSID signal in
`1'?
`Breen‘?
`
`Q. But it's encoded in the semicoritittctor
`eltip. correct?
`A.
`I don't recall.
`in the last
`Q. Rfiffifrlllg down column :1
`line, up to column 6. Breen states. "As described
`earlier. PSID t'eie1's to a digital identilieation
`encoded in senticonditctorcltip irteluded in power
`peripherals." Do you see that'.'
`
`13
`19
`20
`21
`2.’:
`223
`24
`.25
`
`"A.NFt"»l»'|ER: Wliat I'm saying is tltat. you
`ltnow. how the information is transrrtitted From the
`power adapter to the electronic device does not
`reqttite it to be done digitally. Witltin the power
`adapter 230 or 240. it may be stored digital I1.» in
`one oi" the DHEEGI or '1 chips. but that does not
`iutpl_~,; that ithas to be transmitted digitali;-r."']
`BY MR. QIJINH:
`
`Min—U-Script®
`
`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose — (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
`
`(7) Pages 25 — 28
`
`Comarco Ex. 2002
`
`

`
`Page 29 T
`
`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
`
`Page 31
`
`I
`'
`"
`
`1 Q. The beginning of that question was are
`2
`you saying that a power interruption -- excuse me ——
`3
`power trigger event signal as described in Figure 3
`4
`is the same as a PSID signal in Breen.
`5
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Objection to form.
`6
`THE WITNESS: No, I am. not trying to
`7
`say that a trigger is the same as the PSID.
`8
`BY MR. QUINN:
`9 Q. Well, what's the difference?
`10 A. That trigger causes something to
`11
`happen.
`12 Q. And what does the trigger signal in
`13 Breen cause to happen?
`14 A. Column 7, line 5 reads, "By
`15
`advantageously having a power event occur when power
`16
`peripherals are attached or detached, the controller
`17
`260 is automatically triggered to read/update the
`18
`PSID information to adjust power parameters and
`19
`device performance accordingly."
`20 Q. And what do you understand "read/update
`21
`PSID information" to mean in that sentence?
`22 A. That means that that information would
`23
`be transmitted on line 250 to be captured by the
`24
`controller 260 in the electronic device.
`25 Q.
`In other words, when the controller and
`
`device, generates a request for the updated PSID
`1
`information.
`2
`BY MR. QUINN:
`3
`4 Q. And that request goes to the
`5
`peripheral, correct?
`6 A.
`It goes to the power source that it's
`7
`connected to.
`8 Q. For example --
`9 A.
`It could be in Figure 2, 230 or 240.
`10 Q. 230 is an AC to DC adapter and 240 is
`11
`an external battery, as we discussed before?
`12 A.
`In one embodiment, yes.
`13 Q.
`In embodiment of Figure 2 anyway.
`14
`And does each peripheral device in
`15 Breen's system have a receiver which receives the
`16 PSID inquiry from the electronic device?
`17 A.
`lnherently, if you're going to operate
`18
`on a request, as ljust read, you have to be able to
`19
`receive it, yes.
`20 Q. Okay.
`21
`It receives the inquiry from the
`22
`electronic device and then it responds by
`23
`transmitting back its PSID information, correct?
`24 A. That's what that section I just read
`25
`in the chapter —~ in column 5 indicates.
`
`Page 30
`
`Page 32
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`N 0
`
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1 Q. And that's your understanding of how
`the electronic device 260 gets a power trigger event
`2 Breen operates, correct?
`signal, it sends out a request to the peripheral
`3 A.
`I'm not disputing what he says here.
`asking for PSID information, correct?
`4 Q. Okay.
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Object to form.
`5
`And the PSID request is in digital form
`THE WITNESS: Can you repeat your
`6
`and the PSID response from the peripheral is in
`question? I've found where I need to be here.
`7
`digital form, correct?
`MR. QUINN: Could you repeat my
`8 A.
`I don't think that is specified, nor
`question?
`9
`required.
`(Whereupon, the following is read back
`10 Q. And, again, why wouldn't it be
`by the court reporter:
`11
`required?
`"QUESTION: In other words, when the
`12 A. The patent is essentially silent on
`controller and the electronic device 260 gets a
`13
`the transmission mode for the PSID.
`power trigger event signal, it sends out a request
`14 Q. And this gets back to your statement
`to the peripheral asking for PSID information,
`15
`earlier that digital information can be transmitted
`correct?")
`16
`in analog form, correct?
`MR. WILLIAMSON: Same objection.
`17 A. To be more precise, you can store
`THE WITNESS: If you look at column 5,
`18
`information in a digital form that doesn't
`line 32, it says, "In order to determine its power
`source and optimize its performance, controller 260 19
`require -- mean that it has to be transmitted as a
`included within the portable IHS device 101 sends a
`20
`digital word. It can be transmitted in analog.
`request signal to one or more power peripherals over 21 Q.
`Is there any indication in Breen that
`a bidirectional PSID line to request PSID
`22
`PSID information is transmitted in analog form?
`information."
`23 A. There's —— I don't know that it's
`So based on that information, yes, I
`24
`addressed one way or the other. The patent seems to
`think the electronic device, that he calls the II~IS
`25
`be silent.
`
`.1
`
`Pages 29 - 32 (8)
`
`Rizman Rappaport Dillon & Rose - (973) 992-7650
`Let Our Fingers Do Your Talking
`
`:vliii—'.}—.‘~erij)t®
`
`Comarco Ex. 2002
`
`

`
`Apple Inc. v.
`Comarco Wireless
`
`Page 33
`
`Page 35
`
`Q. Now, the cables connecting a peripheral
`device -- excuse me.
`
`The cable connecting, for example, the
`adapter 230, in figure 2, to the battery 240, do you
`have an understanding as to whether that cable is
`permanently attached to the adapter 230?
`A. No.
`
`Q. So the cable could be detachable and
`used?
`
`I think that would he certainly
`A.
`reasonable.
`
`Q. Okay.
`So you can use the same cable to attach
`230 to 240, or to any other battery, which was used
`in Breen‘s scheme?
`
`l-‘O\O®<lO5U1vl>LUl\3l-‘
`
`H I-‘
`
`A. Not necessarily.
`Q. What do you mean by not necessarily?
`A. You've got to make sure that both the
`cable and the connectors on the cable, and the
`receptacles on the device is 23 0, 240 are
`compatible.
`Q. So the connectors would have to be
`compatible?
`A. Yes.
`
`THE WITNESS: So if you can read that
`back to me?
`
`(Whereupon, the following is read back
`by the court reporter:
`"QUESTION: Now, referring to
`paragraph 89 of your declaration, you state that,
`"Breen discloses an adapter that includes circuitry
`that sends an analog signal to an electronic device
`that the electronic device uses to control power
`drawn from the adapter." Do you see that? Is that
`a fair statement?")
`A. So if you are asking, yet again, if
`the PSID can be transmitted in analog or digital, in
`that paragraph I gave you an example of one
`embodiment where it was an analog signal, which is
`at the top of column 6 starting at line 2, "In one
`embodiment, the PSID may be a certain current or
`voltage level present on a sense line such as
`line 250." And continuing, "In one embodiment, the
`PSID information may be superimposed on a signal or
`power line."
`So those very clearly are examples of
`where it can be generated as an analog communication
`between the two modules.
`
`Q. And if the connectors are compatible,
`
`Q. Could you amplify what you mean by,
`
`Page 34
`
`Page 36
`
`any cable can be used to conn