throbber
Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` ___________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ___________________
`
` COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE DRUGS X LLC,
` Petitioner,
` v.
`
` ANACOR PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
`
` Case No. IPR2015-01776
`
` U.S. Patent No. 7,582,621
`
` Case No. IPR2015-01780
`
` U.S. Patent No. 7,767,657
`
` Case No. IPR2015-01785
`
` U.S. Patent No. 7,767,567
`
` VOLUME 1 OF 3
`
` DEPOSITION OF NARASIMHA MURTHY, Ph.D.
`
`Taken at the instance of the Patent Owner at The Inn
`
` at Ole Miss, 120 Alumni Drive, University,
`
`Mississippi, on Wednesday, May 4, 2016, beginning at
`
` 8:35 a.m.
`
` GINGER H. BROOKS, CCR #1165
`
` CRR, RPR, CCR, CLR, RSA
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 1/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 2
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` APPEARANCES:
`
` PETER A. GERGELY, ESQ.
`
` RYAN JAMES FLETCHER, PH.D, ESQ.
`
` KATHLEEN E. OTT, ESQ.
`
` Merchant & Gould
`
` 1801 California Street, Suite 3300
`
` Denver, Colorado 80202-2654
`
` pgergely@merchantgould.com
`
` rfletcher@merchantgould.com
`
` kott@merchantgould.com
`
` COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER
`
` ANDREA G. REISTER, ESQ.
`
` PAUL J. BERMAN, ESQ.
`
` ALEXANDER TRZECIAK, ESQ.
`
` Covington & Burling, LLP
`
` 850 Tenth Street, NW
`
` Washington, DC 20001-4956
`
` areister@cov.com
`
` pberman@cov.com
`
` atrzeciak@cov.com
`
` COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Brent Shorter
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 2/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 3
`
` INDEX
`
` Certificate of Deponent ..................226
`
` Certificate of Court Reporter .............228
`
` EXHIBITS
`
` Exhibit 1008: Declaration - Patent .........20
` No. 7,582,621
` Exhibit 1011-1: Declaration, First .........39
` Petition, Patent No. 7,767,657
` Exhibit 1011-2: Declaration, Second ........47
` Petition, Patent No. 7,767,657
` Exhibit 1009: CV ...........................64
`
` Exhibit 1: Abstract ........................76
`
` Exhibit 2: 10/29/15 Press Release ..........77
`
` Exhibit 3: Article .........................82
`
` Exhibit 4: Book ............................88
`
` Exhibit 1003 (Previously Marked) ..........120
`
` Exhibit 1002: International ...............135
` Publication Number WO 9533754
` Exhibit 5: Structural Diagram .............191
`
` Exhibit 1025(Previously Marked) ...........157
`
` Exhibit 6: Structural Diagram .............192
`
` Exhibit 7: Structural Diagram .............192
`
` Exhibit 8: Structural Diagram .............193
`
` Exhibit 9: Structural Diagram .............194
`
` Exhibit 10: Structural Diagram ............194
`
` Exhibit 11: Structural Diagram ............195
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 3/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 4
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the Video
`
` Deposition of Dr. Narasimha Murthy taken in the
`
` matter of "Coalition for Affordable Drugs X LLC v.
`
` Anacor Pharmaceuticals, Inc." The date is May 4th,
`
` 2016. The time now is 8:35 a.m.
`
` Counsel may now introduce themselves for
`
` the record.
`
` MS. REISTER: Andrea Reister, Covington &
`
` Burling, on behalf of Anacor Pharmaceuticals.
`
` MR. BERMAN: Paul Berman, Covington &
`
` Burling, on behalf of Anacor Pharmaceuticals.
`
` MR. TRZECIAK: Alex Trzeciak, Covington &
`
` Burling, for Anacor Pharmaceuticals.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Peter Gergely, Merchant &
`
` Gould, P.C., on behalf of Petitioner.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The Court Reporter may
`
` now swear in the witness.
`
` NARASIMHA MURTHY, Ph.D,
`
` having been first duly sworn, was examined and
`
` testified as follows:
`
` MR. GERGELY: Just for the record, there's
`
` two other attorneys here, Ryan Fletcher and Kathy
`
` Ott, both with Merchant & Gould, P.C., on behalf of
`
` the Petitioner.
`
` EXAMINATION BY MS. REISTER:
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 4/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 5
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Murthy.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot
`
` testify truthfully today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Are you ill?
`
` A. I'm not.
`
` Q. Excuse me?
`
` A. There's no reason.
`
` Q. No reason.
`
` And you're not on any medication or
`
` anything like that?
`
` A. I'm not.
`
` Q. No? Okay.
`
` I want to establish a couple of ground
`
` rules.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. This is a question and answer.
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And I'm going to ask the questions and
`
` you're going to answer the questions. The counsel
`
` that are present here today may object to the
`
` questions, but you still have to answer the
`
` questions.
`
` If you need a break, let us know, and
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 5/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` we'll try to take one at the next available time.
`
` Do you understand the ground rules today?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Now, Dr. Murthy, I see that you have a
`
` number of materials in front of you.
`
` And what I'm going to ask you to do is
`
` identify what each of them are, and then we are
`
` going to set them behind the court reporter and
`
` carry on with our deposition.
`
` So if you could start with the first
`
` notebook to my left and tell me what -- what that is
`
` and what is in it.
`
` A. Okay. The first one is the declaration of
`
` our '621 patent and all the exhibits. This is the
`
` '657 patent edition of the declaration and all the
`
` exhibits. There's a second edition on '657,
`
` declaration and all exhibits. And these are some
`
` exhibits that was printed off from the patent
`
` owner's primary response to the -- the decision --
`
` the declaration. So these three documents are the
`
` supplemental declaration documents that we
`
` supplemented recently.
`
` MS. REISTER: Okay. I'd like to -- just
`
` take a short break so that we could put those on the
`
` floor, and then at the appropriate time, we'll go
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 6/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` through them one at a time.
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. It's 8:39.
`
` (Off the record.)
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. It's
`
` 8:39.
`
` MR. GERGELY: So the witness has brought
`
` his copies of his declarations and work papers with
`
` him. If he needs to refer to those during the
`
` deposition to answer a question, he -- I think he's
`
` allowed to do that under the rules and the rules of
`
` evidence as well. So I would like to have him have
`
` access to it if he needs to answer a question.
`
` MS. REISTER: We'll set them over there,
`
` and we'll proceed, and we'll -- any exhibit that's
`
` introduced, we'll be able to use that in the
`
` deposition.
`
` So we'll just remove them from the table,
`
` and we'll carry on with the deposition, please.
`
` MR. GERGELY: But, again, Dr. Murthy, I
`
` would advise you if you need to refer to your work
`
` papers to answer a question, please feel free to --
`
` to do so.
`
` MS. REISTER: And at the appropriate time,
`
` we'll enter them into evidence. We'll enter them as
`
` an exhibit.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 7/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` MR. GERGELY: Yeah, but, you know, you're
`
` here to -- I don't mean to be combative, but he is
`
` here to answer questions.
`
` MS. REISTER: Correct.
`
` MR. GERGELY: And I don't think it's fair
`
` for you to tell him where to put his papers. That's
`
` not part of the rules.
`
` MS. REISTER: We're just moving them so
`
` that we don't get confused between the exhibits that
`
` are being marked for the deposition.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay.
`
` MS. REISTER: That's the reason why.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay. So if it's just
`
` simply a matter of --
`
` MS. REISTER: It's a matter of space --
`
` MR. GERGELY: If it's a matter of space,
`
` that's fine.
`
` MS. REISTER: -- and not confusing --
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay.
`
` MS. REISTER: -- and making sure that we
`
` clearly mark every exhibit.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay.
`
` MS. REISTER: That's the purpose for it.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay. Well, how do you want
`
` to proceed? Would you rather have them here on the
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 8/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` table with you or would you rather have some space?
`
` MS. REISTER: Could you please put them on
`
` the floor at least?
`
` MR. GERGELY: Why don't you put them in
`
` the chair next to him?
`
` MS. REISTER: That's fine.
`
` MR. GERGELY: If he does have to refer to
`
` it, he can just --
`
` MS. REISTER: And at the appropriate time,
`
` we will mark it as an exhibit and enter it in as an
`
` exhibit.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay.
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record. It's 8:41.
`
` (Off the record.)
`
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. It's
`
` 8:42.
`
` Q. (By Ms. Reister) Dr. Murthy, have you
`
` been deposed before?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. When was that?
`
` A. I don't remember the exact date, but it
`
` was about four years ago.
`
` Q. Was it one time four years ago?
`
` A. Yes, that's right.
`
` Q. So you've only been deposed one prior
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 9/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` time?
`
` A. Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q. What was the subject matter of that
`
` deposition?
`
` A. That was a medical malpractice type case,
`
` and that's it.
`
` Q. It was a medical malpractice type case.
`
` So it was not anything to do with a patent?
`
` A. Nothing to do with a patent.
`
` Q. And on behalf of whom did you testify?
`
` A. I -- I testified on behalf of the
`
` defendant. I don't recall the names.
`
` Q. So you were testifying on behalf of the
`
` defendant?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. And was the plaintiff in that case a
`
` doctor or patient?
`
` A. Plaintiff was -- was the person -- husband
`
` of the person who died.
`
` Q. Have you ever testified in a trial
`
` proceeding in a court?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Have you ever been deposed in the context
`
` of an IPR proceeding previously?
`
` A. No.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 10/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. What did you do to prepare for the
`
` deposition today?
`
` A. So I -- I read all the declarations that I
`
` submitted and all the exhibits.
`
` Q. And did you do that yesterday or over the
`
` past month? How long did you spend doing that?
`
` A. Over the past few days.
`
` Q. Did you meet with any counsel before the
`
` deposition today?
`
` A. Today? Not today. Yesterday I met them.
`
` Q. And with whom did you meet yesterday?
`
` A. Yesterday, the -- all the three attorneys,
`
` my counsel.
`
` Q. Could you please speak up and identify the
`
` counsel by name with whom you met yesterday?
`
` A. Yes, Mr. Peter, Mr. Ryan and Miss Kathy.
`
` Q. And for how long did you meet with the
`
` counsel yesterday?
`
` A. A couple of hours, three hours maybe.
`
` Q. During your meeting with the counsel
`
` yesterday, did you review any documents?
`
` A. No, not -- we did not review any
`
` documents.
`
` Q. So during your meeting with counsel
`
` yesterday, you did not look at your declaration?
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 11/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. I did look at my declaration, yeah.
`
` Q. So during the meeting, you were discussing
`
` your declaration with your counsel, correct?
`
` A. I was not discussing my -- regarding my
`
` declaration. I had a few questions that I wanted to
`
` know, like how the deposition would go on and such
`
` things.
`
` Q. During the meeting with counsel, did you
`
` review any of the exhibits to the declaration?
`
` A. Yes, a few of them.
`
` Q. Which exhibits did you look at?
`
` A. The Austin, and then Brehove, and Freeman
`
` documents.
`
` Q. When did you find out that you would be
`
` deposed?
`
` A. I guess about a month ago.
`
` Q. And how did you find out?
`
` A. The counsel informed me.
`
` Q. And who was that?
`
` A. Mr. Ryan, and Mr. Peter, and Miss Kathy.
`
` Q. They all three told you?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. Did you talk to anyone else in preparation
`
` for your deposition, other than the three attorneys
`
` sitting here today?
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 12/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. There were no other attorneys that you
`
` discussed it with?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. No other people that you worked with?
`
` A. No other people.
`
` Q. Did you do any -- any type of searching,
`
` literature searching in preparation for your
`
` deposition?
`
` A. I did some.
`
` Q. You did some searching in preparation for
`
` the deposition?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And what were the results of those
`
` searches?
`
` A. Can you be a little more specific?
`
` Q. Yes. You said that you conducted some
`
` literature searching.
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. In preparation for the deposition today,
`
` correct?
`
` A. Uh-huh (affirmative response).
`
` Q. What was the results of that search?
`
` A. It's a broad question. I'm not getting --
`
` results means -- no, I -- I looked at the literature
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 13/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` that was cited in the preliminary response by the
`
` patent owner. That was the only, you know,
`
` documents that I -- I pulled up and read it.
`
` Q. So to be clear, when you said you did a
`
` literature search --
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. -- do I understand your testimony to be
`
` that you were looking at the documents cited in the
`
` patent owner preliminary response?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. So is it correct that you did not do an
`
` independent search looking for other documents --
`
` A. I did a lot of independent research also.
`
` Q. -- in preparation for your deposition
`
` today?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Please explain what you did.
`
` A. Well, I just wanted to brush up my memory
`
` on some of the antifungal drugs that we investigated
`
` a few years ago, and I wanted -- I just looked at
`
` the data. I looked at my own publications. That's
`
` it.
`
` Q. And how did you conduct that search?
`
` A. How did I conduct that research?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 14/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. Well, I pulled up those papers. I worked
`
` on Internet, and I printed off the papers and read
`
` them.
`
` Q. What are the papers that you printed off?
`
` A. The papers that I printed off were my own
`
` papers.
`
` Q. Do you have them with you here today?
`
` A. No, not here.
`
` Q. Can you please tell us what those papers
`
` were?
`
` A. It was a review on treatment of
`
` onychomycosis, the delivery of drugs, a review
`
` paper, drug development in the pharmacy.
`
` Q. Any- -- anything else?
`
` A. No. The information, whatever information
`
` was available with me, I just reviewed them, and
`
` then I pulled up my papers and read them. I -- I
`
` pulled up a couple of papers that was cited on the
`
` preliminary response for the patent owner. I don't
`
` recall the name of doctors, but I read the paper.
`
` Just -- I was looking for some information in that,
`
` and that's it.
`
` Q. Now, you've testified that you looked at
`
` your papers, plural, and you've identified one
`
` paper.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 15/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Could you tell me what the other papers
`
` were that you looked at yesterday in preparation for
`
` your deposition?
`
` A. The one paper that I looked at was a
`
` recent paper that got accepted, probably it's
`
` online, on use of an electrical technique to deliver
`
` drugs into the nail plate.
`
` Q. This is a paper that you authored?
`
` A. That's a paper that my group wrote, that's
`
` right.
`
` Q. And do you have it with you here today?
`
` A. I don't have it here.
`
` Q. And the title of the paper is?
`
` A. Pardon me?
`
` Q. What is the title of the paper?
`
` A. "Trans-ungual anti forces exploring high
`
` chem as one of the potential roles of drug
`
` administration."
`
` Q. And when was this paper authored?
`
` A. When?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. About six months ago. It got accepted
`
` recently when we submitted it.
`
` Q. The -- the prior paper that you were
`
` talking about, trans-ungual delivery across the nail
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 16/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` plate, when was that paper written?
`
` A. It was a while ago. It was three or four
`
` years ago, yes.
`
` Q. You said that in preparation for your
`
` deposition you were doing some searching for
`
` antifungal drugs.
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. What type of antifungal drugs were you
`
` searching for?
`
` A. Well, there are several antifungal drugs.
`
` It was just a general search to see, you know, how
`
` many antifungal drugs exist and how many made it to
`
` market and what does their activities look like and
`
` such things.
`
` Q. And what was the -- the time frame for the
`
` scope of that search?
`
` A. How long did I search? That's what you
`
` mean?
`
` Q. No. During what period of time were you
`
` looking for antifungal drugs? Since 1906?
`
` A. During my preparation of -- for
`
` deposition, I was looking at antifungal drugs, yes,
`
` since, I believe, 1980s. I don't recall the exact
`
` years of approval of the drugs. I'm just interested
`
` in what drugs exist and what drugs are being used
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 17/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` for the treatment.
`
` Q. For the treatment of what?
`
` A. Onychomycosis.
`
` Q. Approximately when were you contacted,
`
` first contacted to work on these IPR matters?
`
` A. It was early last year, 2015.
`
` Q. Approximately what month?
`
` A. January or February, I think.
`
` Q. January or February of 2015?
`
` A. 2015.
`
` Q. And who contacted you?
`
` A. Mr. Ryan contacted me.
`
` Q. Excuse me?
`
` A. Mr. Ryan.
`
` Q. And he was the first person --
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. -- that contacted you?
`
` A. That's right.
`
` Q. Have you ever spoken with anyone from the
`
` Coalition for Affordable Drugs?
`
` A. I have not.
`
` Q. Do you know anyone from that company?
`
` A. I don't.
`
` Q. Do you know what they do?
`
` A. I don't.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 18/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. Do you know who Kyle Bass is?
`
` A. I have not heard about him.
`
` Q. You have never heard the name Kyle Bass?
`
` A. Never heard about him.
`
` Q. Have you ever heard the name Erich
`
` Spangenberg?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So you've never heard of any of those
`
` people?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Now, you were retained by the law firm of
`
` Merchant & Gould to assist in the IPRs; is that
`
` correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` MS. REISTER: Alex, I think we'd like the
`
` 108 declaration.
`
` Q. (By Ms. Reister) We are going to hand you
`
` what has been previously marked as GFAD Exhibit 1008
`
` and IPR 2015-01776.
`
` Do you recognize that document?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And that's the declaration submitted for
`
` inter partes review of U.S. Patent Number 7,582,621.
`
` Will you understand if I refer to that
`
` patent as the "'621 patent"?
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 19/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. '621 patent, that's correct.
`
` Q. And can we refer to this declaration as
`
` Exhibit 1008? Do you see where that's marked?
`
` A. Yes. Can I write on this, on 1008?
`
` Q. That will become an original exhibit.
`
` Yes, you can.
`
` MR. GERGELY: I just want to make sure we
`
` have the numbering system clear. It looks like
`
` there's a sticker on it that says, "Murthy Exhibit
`
` 1."
`
` MS. REISTER: We're going to retain that
`
` as Exhibit 1008. We're going to have a side of
`
` previously marked and a side of new exhibits.
`
` So that will be Murthy Exhibit 1008.
`
` (Exhibit 1008 marked for identification.)
`
` Q. (By Ms. Reister) Thank you.
`
` I'd like you to turn to page -- page 29.
`
` A. Uh-huh (affirmative response).
`
` Q. My apologies. Page 55, if you could.
`
` A. 55?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, is that your signature on that
`
` page 55?
`
` A. That's my signature.
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 20/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` Q. When did you sign this document?
`
` A. On the date I mentioned there, June 15th.
`
` Q. So you signed it on June 15th, 2015?
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. And you understand that in the declaration
`
` you were attesting that everything is true and
`
` correct under the penalty of perjury, right?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And you understand that today, you're
`
` testifying under the penalty of perjury, correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Now, is everything in that declaration
`
` 1008 true and correct?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Are there any corrections to your
`
` declaration?
`
` A. I don't think.
`
` Q. Any errors of which you are aware?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Now, during preparation of this
`
` declaration, did counsel provide you with a draft of
`
` the declaration to review?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And when did they do that?
`
` A. It was probably in the month of April
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 21/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` after we had a few discussions about the IPR.
`
` Q. And how many drafts of the declaration did
`
` counsel provide to you?
`
` A. Again, I don't recall the number, exact
`
` number, but it was at least 10 times we reviewed the
`
` draft. I reviewed the draft.
`
` Q. So counsel provided you an initial draft,
`
` you marked it up, sent it back to them --
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. -- they provided you another draft, you
`
` marked it up and sent it back to them; is that
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes. The part we are missing here is when
`
` they provided the draft, I reviewed the draft, and
`
` we always had discussions over the phone, and then I
`
` told -- I give my input before they went to revise
`
` it further.
`
` Q. And the drafts back and forth, that was
`
` about 10 times; is that correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. And did you bring those drafts with you
`
` today?
`
` A. No, I didn't.
`
` Q. Do you still have those drafts?
`
` A. Maybe they are on my e-mail. I didn't
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 22/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` print all of them.
`
` Q. Uh-huh (affirmative response).
`
` So you still have e-mail electronic copies
`
` of the drafts going back and forth?
`
` A. I believe so, yes.
`
` Q. Yeah.
`
` MS. REISTER: We're going to put in a
`
` request for those documents, Counsel, all of the
`
` drafts and communications with respect to that.
`
` MR. GERGELY: You will -- you are going to
`
` or you are?
`
` MS. REISTER: I am.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Oh, okay.
`
` MS. REISTER: I'm putting into the record
`
` a formal request for copies of the drafts and
`
` communications going back and forth with Dr. Murthy
`
` of the declaration.
`
` MR. GERGELY: And I think those are
`
` specifically excluded by Rule 26, but I have your
`
` request.
`
` MS. REISTER: Thank you. I have your
`
` objection.
`
` Q. (By Ms. Reister) So to be clear, you
`
` didn't draft, initially, any of the declaration
`
` yourself, correct?
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 23/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Did you review and understand all
`
` paragraphs and sections of the declaration before
`
` you signed it?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. I'd like you to turn to page 5 of
`
` the Exhibit 1008 declaration.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And I draw your attention to paragraph 13,
`
` which actually starts on page 4.
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` MR. GERGELY: And, Andrea, just to be
`
` clear for the record, you were referring the witness
`
` to Exhibit 5, but I think you meant page 5; is that
`
` right?
`
` MS. REISTER: Yes.
`
` MR. GERGELY: Okay.
`
` Q. (By Ms. Reister) Paragraph 13, which
`
` starts on page 4 and carries over to page 5.
`
` And paragraph 13 states that you reviewed
`
` the following documents and information in the
`
` petition.
`
` Do you see that?
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. And then there are a number of documents
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 24/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` listed on page 5.
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. Correct?
`
` Now, did you review the '621 patent before
`
` you reviewed all of those exhibits?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And how about the '657 patent? Do you
`
` understand what I mean by the '657 patent?
`
` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. Okay. Did you review the '657 patent
`
` before you reviewed all of the documents that are
`
` listed on page 5 of Exhibit 1008?
`
` A. Right, that's correct.
`
` Q. Now, were the documents that are listed on
`
` page 5 of Exhibit 1008 supplied to you by counsel?
`
` A. Could you come again, please?
`
` Q. Yes. Let me rephrase the question.
`
` In paragraph 13, on page 5 of Exhibit 1008
`
` declaration, there are a number of documents listed,
`
` Exhibit 101 through Exhibit 1028.
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. Did counsel provide you with each of those
`
` exhibits listed on page 5?
`
` A. They did. They did.
`
` Q. They did. Okay. So you didn't -- you did
`
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`www.aldersonreporting.com
`
`Alderson Court Reporting
`
`CFAD v. Anacor, IPR2015-01776 ANACOR EX. 2032 - 25/638
`
`

`
`Narasimha Murthy, Ph.D. (Vol. I)
`
`University, MS
`
`May 4, 2016
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
` not have any of these documents before they were
`
` supplied to you by counsel?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Now, are there any other documents --
`
` A. Can I go back and correct? I have read --
`
` I have read 1028 before, 1028.
`
` Q. So on page 5, it references Exhibit 1028,
`
` the article authored by Murdan, "Drug delivery to
`
` the nail following topical application."
`
` A. Right.
`
` Q. That is an article you had read prior to
`
` it being supplied to you by counsel for this case?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Are there any others on this list that you
`
` had prior to being provided to you by counsel?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Are there any other documents that you
`
` reviewed or considered in preparing your
`
`

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket