UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`CERTIFIED COPY
`
`RPX Corporation,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`Applications In Internet Time,
`LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`vvvvvvvvvvv
`
`No.
`
`IPR2015-01750
`IPR2015-01751
`IPR2015-01752
`
`C O N F I D E N T I A L
`
`PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`
`Deposition of STEVE CHIANG
`
`January 29, 2019
`
`Karen Moon, No. 12450.
`447050
`me
`
`BARKLEY
`
`
`
`Q
`barkleycom
`RPX Exhibit 1194
`”Wham 1 mmwm ass-04mm
`‘
`-
`-
`Sigmmmw Mass-0550mm mm-mmm SRPX EXhlblt 1194
`RPX v. AIT
`gRPX V AIT
`mam-5mm (300)222-1231 Martinez mmmwg.
`(Donne-mm mammal- m)mm (
`'
`IPR2015-01752
`fiIPR2015-01752
`azmmm magma»...
`swam...
`
`
`
`
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`CERTIFIED COPY
`
`RPX Corporation,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`Applications In Internet Time,
`LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`vvvvvvvvvvv
`
`No.
`
`IPR2015-01750
`IPR2015-01751
`IPR2015-01752
`
`C O N F I D E N T I A L
`
`PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`
`Deposition of STEVE CHIANG
`
`January 29, 2019
`
`Karen Moon, No. 12450.
`447050
`me
`
`BARKLEY
`
`
`
`Q
`barkleycom
`RPX Exhibit 1194
`”Wham 1 mmwm ass-04mm
`‘
`-
`-
`Sigmmmw Mass-0550mm mm-mmm SRPX EXhlblt 1194
`RPX v. AIT
`gRPX V AIT
`mam-5mm (300)222-1231 Martinez mmmwg.
`(Donne-mm mammal- m)mm (
`'
`IPR2015-01752
`fiIPR2015-01752
`azmmm magma»...
`swam...
`
`
`
`
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
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`13
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`24
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`RPX Corporation,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`V.
`
`Applications In Internet Time,
`LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`vvvvvvvvvvv
`
`No.
`
`IPR2015—01750
`IPR2015-01751
`IPR2015-01752
`
`C O N F I D E N T I A L
`
`PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`
`Deposition of STEVE CHIANG,
`
`taken on behalf of
`
`the Patent Owner, at 201 California Street, Suite 375,
`
`San Francisco, California, commencing at 9:54 a.m.,
`
`Tuesday, January 29, 2019, before Karen Moon, Certified
`
`Shorthand Reporter No. 12450.
`
`
`
`2
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflr.
`
`
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`24
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`For Applications in Internet Time, LLC:
`
`STEVEN C. SEREBOFF, ESQ.
`SOCAL IP LAW GROUP LLP
`
`310 North Westlake Boulevard, Suite 120
`
`Westlake Village, California 91362
`(805)230—1350
`
`ssereboff@socalip.com
`
`For RPX Corporation:
`
`RICHARD F. GIUNTA, ESQ.
`
`ELISABETH H. HUNT, Ph.D.
`WOLF, GREENFIELD & SACKS, P.C.
`600 Atlantic Avenue
`
`Boston, Massachusetts 02210-2206
`(617)646—8000
`rgiunta@wolfgreenfield.com
`ehunt@wolfgreenfield.com
`
`
`
`3
`
`STEVE CHIANG — CONFIDENTIAL
`
`BARKLEY—‘—.
`Cour! chonou
`
`
`
`
`
`I N D E X
`
`DEPONENT
`
`EXAMINED BY
`
`PAGE
`
`MR. CHIANG
`
`MR. SEREBOFF
`
`MS. HUNT
`
`159
`
`EXHIBIT NO.
`
`EXHIBITS
`
`2200
`
`2201
`
`3—page Notice of Deposition of
`Steve W. Chiang.
`
`28—page Declaration of Steve W.
`Chiang.
`
`PAGE
`
`10
`
`20
`
`2202
`
`14—page Communication Log (RPX 77—90). 77
`
`2203
`
`3—page Communication Log (RPX 91—93).
`
`2204
`
`5—page Communication Log (RPX 94-98).
`
`2205
`
`2206
`
`2207
`
`2208
`
`2209
`
`12—page RPX Membership and
`License Agreement Cover Sheet
`(RPX 14—25).
`
`3-page First Amendment to the
`Membership and License Agreement
`between Salesforce.com,
`Inc. and
`RPX dated _ (RPX 9—11).
`
`2—page Second Amendment to the
`Membership and License Agreement
`between Salesforce.com,
`Inc. and
`RPX dated - (RPX 12-13).
`
`23-page Declaration of William
`W. Chuang.
`
`33—page Second Declaration of
`William W. Chuang.
`
`77
`
`77
`
`100
`
`100-101
`
`101
`
`104
`
`104
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`
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`ll
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`25
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`4
`
`STEVE CHIANG - CONFIDENTIAL
`
`BARKLEY
`.—‘—.
`Court Raporuu
`
`
`
`10
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`EXHIBIT NO.
`
`EXHIBITS
`
`2210
`
`2211
`
`2212
`
`2213
`
`6—page Validity Challenge
`Identification dated July 2014
`(RPX 68—73).
`
`2—page Validity Challenge
`Identification Process and Best
`
`Practices (RPX 74-75).
`
`lO-page Petitioner's Responses to
`Patent Owner's Requests for
`Production.
`
`6—page Patent Owner's Requests for
`Production to RPX Corp.
`
`PAGE
`
`129
`
`131
`
`160
`
`161
`
`
`
`5
`
`STEVE CHIANG - CONFIDENTIAL
`
`BARKLEY—‘—.
`Cour! chonou
`
`
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`SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY,
`
`JANUARY 29, 2019
`
`9:54 A.M.
`
`DEPOSITION OFFICER: Good morning. My name is
`
`Karen Moon.
`
`I'm a court reporter with Barkley Court
`
`Reporters located at 201 California Street, Suite 375,
`
`San Francisco, California, 94111.
`
`Today is January 29th, 2019.
`
`The time is 9:54
`
`a.m. We are located at the Barkley office at 201
`
`California Street, Suite 375, San Francisco, California,
`
`for the deposition of Steve Chiang in the matter RPX
`
`Corporation v. Applications in Internet Time, LLC, Case
`
`No.
`
`IPR2015—01750, 01751, and 01752,
`
`in the United
`
`States Patent and Trademark Office, before the Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board.
`
`Before I swear in the witness, will counsel
`
`please state your appearances for the record.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF:
`
`I'm Steven Sereboff for
`
`Applications in Internet Time.
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Richard Giunta from Wolf
`
`Greenfield for RPX. And joining me is Elisabeth Hunt,
`
`also from Wolf Greenfield.
`
`(STEVE W. CHIANG, deponent, was sworn and
`
`examined and testified as follows:)
`
`
`
`6
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflrl
`
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`DEPOSITION OFFICER: Please raise your right
`
`hand to be sworn. You do solemnly state that the
`
`testimony you shall give in this matter shall be the
`
`truth,
`
`the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
`
`help you God?
`
`MR. CHIANG: Yes.
`
`DEPOSITION OFFICER:
`
`Thank you.
`
`Go ahead.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Good morning, Mr. Chiang.
`
`Good morning.
`
`So just kind of the ground rules here. Let's
`
`see.
`
`I'm going to be asking you a series of questions
`
`today. Hopefully we can get this done at a modest pace.
`
`We may be taking breaks. What I will say is
`
`we're not going to take a break if there's a question
`
`that's pending.
`
`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`All right.
`
`Do you understand that you can't
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`ask your attorney for help?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay. And as you're already doing
`
`
`
`7
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflrl
`
`
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`beautifully, you're answering audibly yes or no when
`
`it's a polar question, yes or no question.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Uh—huh.
`
`I'm just kidding. Yes.
`
`Great.
`
`So during the course of this
`
`deposition, your attorneys may state objections.
`
`Irrespective of their objections, you have to answer
`
`every question I ask you unless your attorney
`
`specifically says that you should not or directs you not
`
`to answer the question.
`
`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`And the other thing is for the benefit of the
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`court reporter, let's not interrupt one another.
`
`So if
`
`I'm asking a question, please don't interrupt me. Wait
`
`till I complete my entire question. And likewise, so
`
`long as you are answering the question that I ask,
`
`I
`
`will not be interrupting you.
`
`So actually, one of the things I'd like to do
`
`at the start, did you bring your driver's license today
`
`or any form of identification?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`record.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I did.
`
`I'd like to take a copy of that for the
`
`Provide it to Karen?
`
`Yeah. That's fine.
`
`It's going to get
`
`
`
`8
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflr.
`
`
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`photocopied, and just a copy goes on the record.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF:
`
`I don't know, Karen, if you
`
`want to do it or I'll step outside and take the
`
`photocopy.
`
`MR. GIUNTA:
`
`I'm story, Steve.
`
`Can I just ask
`
`why you need a copy of his driver's license that you're
`
`going to put in a public record?
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: Are you objecting?
`
`Is that an
`
`objection?
`
`MR. GIUNTA:
`
`Sure.
`
`I'm going to instruct him
`
`that he doesn't need to give you his license to put in a
`
`public record unless you can explain to us why he should
`
`do that.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: Well,
`
`this is a confidential
`
`deposition; isn't it? Are you going to be claiming
`
`confidentiality in anything today?
`
`MR. GIUNTA:
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`So yes, we do want to
`
`mark this deposition protective order material
`
`confidential.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: There you go.
`
`MR. GIUNTA: There's a long history in this
`
`case of things that are marked confidential getting into
`
`the public record.
`
`I don't understand why Mr. Chiang
`
`has to put his driver's license in the public record.
`
`And so I'm going to tell him —— I'm unaware ——
`
`
`
`9
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflr.
`
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`if you can show some rule that says that he‘s compelled
`
`to put his driver's license in the public record,
`
`then
`
`we'll have him comply with that. Otherwise,
`
`I'm going
`
`to instruct him he doesn't need to do that.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: Well, we need to verify his
`
`identity.
`
`80 could I at least -—
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`I'd like to see your driver's license to
`
`verify that you are who you are.
`
`A
`
`Are you going to take a photocopy? Or are you
`
`just —- you're just going to look at it?
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Just going to look at it.
`
`Okay.
`
`Okay.
`
`Thank you.
`
`Thank you.
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: Okay.
`
`So I think what I'm
`
`going to do first is let's mark this first exhibit.
`
`DEPOSITION OFFICER:
`
`I forgot to ask, are you
`
`starting with a certain number?
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: You know what, let's start with
`
`Exhibit 2200.
`
`Since our exhibits are all 2000 series,
`
`2200 is pretty safe.
`
`(Exhibit 2200 was marked for identification by
`
`the deposition officer.)
`
`
`
`10
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflr.
`
`
`
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`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So Mr. Chiang, what I've handed you is
`
`the notice of deposition for today's deposition.
`
`Have you seen this before?
`
`A
`
`At a quick glance, it appears to be a correct
`
`copy of a document that I have seen before.
`
`Q
`
`Great. And did you prepare for today's
`
`deposition?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`How did you prepare for it?
`
`I read my declaration.
`
`I reviewed my
`
`declaration.
`
`I've reviewed the two declarations by
`
`Mr. Chuang, of which my declaration refers.
`
`I read a
`
`variety of other documents, not all of them which come
`
`to mind right now.
`
`I also met with my counsel yesterday
`
`and —- and prepared.
`
`Q
`
`Great. And Mr. Chiang, you're an attorney;
`
`aren't you?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`I am.
`
`Where did you go to law school?
`
`I went to law school at Washington University
`
`in St. Louis.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And when did you graduate?
`
`Year 2011.
`
`And when did you become —— are you a member of
`
`
`
`11
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
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`the bar?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I am.
`
`California bar?
`
`Correct.
`
`And when did you become a member of the
`
`California bar?
`
`A
`
`If memory services, January of 2012.
`
`It's
`
`available in a public record. That may be inaccurate.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So it's been about seven years.
`
`Is
`
`that right?
`
`A
`
`Given that it's January of 2019, if January of
`
`2012 is correct,
`
`then yeah.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And are —— have you always —— since
`
`becoming a member of the bar, have you remained a member
`
`of the California bar?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`attorney?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`In good standing?
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay.
`
`So do you consider yourself an
`
`Do I consider myself an attorney?
`
`Yes.
`
`Yes.
`
`Great.
`
`So tell me a little bit about your
`
`experience as an attorney.
`
`
`
`12
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`BARKLEY
`Gnu” R.po(|.r|
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`So after law school, did you practice? How
`
`have you practiced?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: After law school I did practice.
`
`And how did I practice was as a practicing attorney.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`0V0
`
`A
`
`Did you work for a law firm?
`
`I did.
`
`Which law firm?
`
`I worked for the law firm of Oliff & Berridge.
`
`I worked for the Mueller Law Office. And I worked for
`
`Dergosits & Noah.
`
`Q
`
`And are you a member of the patent bar? Are
`
`you registered as a patent attorney?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I am.
`
`And approximately what year did you become
`
`registered with USPTO as a patent attorney?
`
`A
`
`Approximately 2000 -- sometime between 2010 to
`
`2013.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Great.
`
`So you consider yourself
`
`experienced as a patent attorney?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I guess that depends on how you
`
`define experienced. Relative to some people I may be
`
`experienced. Relative to others I may not be.
`
`
`
`13
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`BARKLEY
`Gnu” Ronlflrl
`
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`24
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Great. Okay. You're comfortable around
`
`patents?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm not sure how to answer that
`
`question.
`
`I'm not sure how you're defining
`
`comfortability. Around patents in general, certainly if
`
`a patent might be outside of a technology area with
`
`which I'm comfortable,
`
`then I may not be comfortable
`
`with it.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Great.
`
`Now the -- the cases at hand,
`
`these
`
`are inter partes reviews, or IPRs.
`
`You're familiar with legal practice in IPRs?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I guess that depends on how you
`
`define familiarity. And legal practice.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Have you ever been an attorney of record in an
`
`IPR?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Not that I recall.
`
`Okay. Have you ever advised a client with
`
`respect to an IPR?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you consider RPX to be your client?
`
`
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`A
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`Q
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`Yes.
`
`Have you ever —— have you ever appeared in a
`
`federal lawsuit as an attorney?
`
`A
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`Can you define a federal lawsuit. Does that
`
`include —-
`
`Q
`
`How about a patent lawsuit in a district
`
`court?
`
`A
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`Q
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`I have not.
`
`Have you ever made an appearance before the
`
`court of appeals for the federal circuit?
`
`A
`
`Q
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`Not that I recall.
`
`Have you ever made an appearance before the
`
`United States Supreme Court?
`
`A
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`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`And when did that happen?
`
`A Within the past year.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay. Could you be more specific?
`
`I would need to look at the date of the
`
`petitions for certiorari, c-e—r-t-i-o-r-a-r-i,
`
`to
`
`confirm the exact date.
`
`If you want the specifics, it's
`
`a matter of public record.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`So is it one case? More than one case?
`
`It's more than one case.
`
`Okay.
`
`So could you identify, please,
`
`the -—
`
`the cases in the last year where you made an appearance
`
`
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`before the Supreme Court in a petition for cert?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection.
`
`Scope.
`
`THE WITNESS: Could you repeat that question.
`
`Identify the —— the cases? How much specificity do you
`
`want?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Just identify the parties.
`
`I don't recall the exact party names. But one
`
`of them was roughly RPX Corporation v. ChanBond, LLC,
`
`I
`
`believe. And another one was RPX Corporation v.
`
`Applications in Internet Time, LLC.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`So it's just been those two petitions?
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay. Okay. You know,
`
`in the course of
`
`today's deposition,
`
`I think for the convenience —— for
`
`our convenience, I'll probably use a lot of shorthand.
`
`So just so that we can understand each other, when I say
`
`RPX,
`
`I'm referring to RPX Corporation.
`
`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`And you're free to likewise refer to RPX
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Corporation as RPX.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Thank you.
`
`Okay. When I refer to Salesforce,
`
`I'm
`
`referring to Salesforce.com,
`
`Inc.
`
`
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`A
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`Q
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`Do you understand that?
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay. And likewise you can do the same.
`
`When referring to Applications in Internet
`
`Time, LLC, we can use a shorthand AIT. Okay?
`
`Okay?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`The Patent Trial and Appeal Board, PTAB.
`
`Okay.
`
`The Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit,
`
`CAFC or Federal Circuit. Okay?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`When I refer to the IPRs, I'll be referring to
`
`the three cases that are the subject of your deposition
`
`today.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay? Do you understand?
`
`Okay.
`
`When I refer to the petitions,
`
`I'm referring
`
`to the three petitions for IPR that RPX filed in these
`
`three cases.
`
`Is that clear?
`
`Yes.
`
`Good.
`
`Now the —- these three IPRs relate to
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`two patents, and you're familiar with those two patents?
`
`A
`
`I've read them before, yes.
`
`
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`Q
`
`Great.
`
`I'll refer to those two patents, if at
`
`all, as the 111 patent and the 482 patent.
`
`Are you familiar with that terminology?
`
`Yes.
`
`Great.
`
`So when I say the 111 patent, do you
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`know which patent I'm referring to?
`
`A
`
`If you're referring to U.S. patent number
`
`8,484,111,
`
`then yes.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Good. Okay. And likewise the 482 patent?
`
`If by 482 patent you're referring to U.S.
`
`patent number 7,356,482,
`
`then yes.
`
`Q
`
`Great. Tell me about your work at RPX. What
`
`do you do as an RPX employee?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I do a lot of things. But at a
`
`very high level,
`
`I serve as in—house counsel for RPX.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`What is your title at —— as an RPX employee?
`
`My current title is vice president and chief
`
`IP officer.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And does that imply that you have a
`
`business role as well as an attorney role?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`The title,
`
`I don't know if the
`
`title implies anything. And -- but yes. Not all of the
`
`
`
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`work I do at RPX is necessarily in a legal capacity.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`So some of your work for RPX is not —— not as
`
`an attorney, but as a non attorney?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: That —— that would be accurate.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So earlier you mentioned that when you
`
`were preparing for today's deposition, you reviewed your
`
`declaration in these cases,
`
`in these IPRs.
`
`Is there any claim of privilege in that
`
`declaration?
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure I understand your question. Are
`
`you asking whether I'm claiming privilege in the
`
`declaration?
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So you're familiar with the
`
`attorney—client privilege; aren't you?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I am.
`
`Okay.
`
`So in your declaration in -- in these
`
`IPRs,
`
`is there any claim of attorney—client privilege by
`
`anyone?
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure I understand the question.
`
`There —- you can't have a document claim attorney—client
`
`privilege. Right? Only a party can claim
`
`attorney—client privilege.
`
`
`
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`BARKLEY
`Gnu” Ronlflrl
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`Q
`
`Right.
`
`Is there any claim by any party
`
`regarding anything in that declaration that's
`
`privileged?
`
`A
`
`There -- I would need to review the entire
`
`declaration.
`
`Do you --
`
`MR. SEREBOFF: Okay.
`
`So let‘s put the
`
`declaration into the record. Here we go.
`
`(Exhibit 2201 was marked for identification by
`
`the deposition officer.)
`
`THE WITNESS: And just so I understand your
`
`question, are you asking whether any party has actually
`
`claimed in a court proceeding privilege over content in
`
`the declaration?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`I'm asking is there —- has any party claimed
`
`privilege —- attorney-client privilege with respect to
`
`anything that's stated in your declaration?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`How would you define a claim of
`
`privilege?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`5IO90
`
`How would you define it?
`
`How would I define it?
`
`Sure.
`
`I would define a claim of privilege as a
`
`
`
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`formal claim that you would —— one of the ways to define
`
`it is a formal claim that you file in administrative or
`
`court proceeding in order to assert privilege and
`
`disallow discovery, for example,
`
`into certain
`
`confidential material.
`
`Q
`
`Does a claim of privilege have to be made in a
`
`court?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: That's —— that's one of the ways
`
`to define a claim.
`
`I guess without —- without
`
`further —— without more accurate definition,
`
`I don't
`
`believe I'm able to answer your question.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Do you understand what discovery is in —— in
`
`adversarial proceedings?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: That —— that's a pretty loaded
`
`question.
`
`I understand at a high level the general
`
`terminology and what it might entail.
`
`Some of the
`
`things it might entail.
`
`I can't say I understand every
`
`single aspect of discovery necessarily.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Do you understand that it's common for parties
`
`to assert the attorney—client privilege in the course of
`
`discovery?
`
`
`
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`A
`
`I —- depending on how you define common.
`
`It's
`
`certainly not unheard of.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And so you recognize that it can be
`
`asserted in discovery outside of a specific filing in a
`
`court?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`It can be asserted, yes.
`
`Okay.
`
`Yeah.
`
`Great. And in your declaration there's no
`
`assertion of attorney—client privilege;
`
`is that correct?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`In my declaration -- just so I
`
`better understand your question, you're asking does the
`
`declaration itself include a claim of attorney—client
`
`privilege?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Correct.
`
`And so you previously used the terminology
`
`claim and then you switched to assertion. Have we
`
`defined what a claim is yet?
`
`Q
`
`Let's just stay with assertion.
`
`Is there an assertion of attorney—client
`
`privilege in your declaration?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`The declaration itself does not
`
`
`
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`assert any attorney—client privilege.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Great. While we're on that, as far as things
`
`that are —— that are discussed in your declaration,
`
`this
`
`document,
`
`is there any discussion of —- excuse me.
`
`Is there any mention of privity in your
`
`declaration?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: Are you asking whether there's
`
`an explicit mention of the word privity in my
`
`declaration?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Let's start with that. Yes.
`
`Is there a
`
`explicit mention of the word privity in your
`
`declaration?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`I'll represent to you that it's not.
`
`I
`
`looked.
`
`A
`
`So would you still like me to answer the
`
`question or do you withdraw it?
`
`Q
`
`No, no.
`
`The question's on the record.
`
`Do you
`
`want to trust me?
`
`A
`
`Given that you're not sworn in,
`
`I probably
`
`won't.
`
`
`
`23
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`STEVE CHIANG - CONFIDENTIAL
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`BARKLEY—‘—.
`Cour! chonou
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`Q
`
`Okay. Carry on.
`
`So the question on the
`
`record,
`
`is there any mention of privity in your
`
`declaration?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`I'm going to correct myself.
`
`I just found a
`
`use. Paragraph 11. Sorry.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Perhaps I was right not to trust you then.
`
`You can trust me to be honest. You can't
`
`trust me to be perfect.
`
`A
`
`Then to answer your question,
`
`there is a
`
`mention of privity in my declaration.
`
`Q
`
`Right. Aside from paragraph 11, does it
`
`appear anywhere else?
`
`A
`
`Upon a human-error—prone review of my
`
`declaration,
`
`I have not found any occurrence of the word
`
`p—r—i—v—i—t-y outside of paragraph 11.
`
`Q
`
`All right. As you were reviewing your
`
`declaration just now, you didn't happen to see the word
`
`privy either; did you?
`
`I'm not asking you to look
`
`again.
`
`I'm just asking if you recall seeing the word
`
`privy.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Not that I recall.
`
`Okay.
`
`How long have you worked for RPX?
`
`For over five years.
`
`
`
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`Q
`
`And so tell me about
`
`-— what is the business
`
`of RPX?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`RPX has many lines of business.
`
`Can you be more specific?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`What is the primary business of RPX?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`How would you define primary?
`
`Is that...
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Let's see.
`
`How does RPX View its primary
`
`business?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I guess that will vary depending
`
`on what kind of marketing materials or exhibits you're
`
`looking at.
`
`Is there a particular exhibit you'd like me
`
`to take a look at?
`
`It -- it's not clear to me when you ask how
`
`RPX views its primary business. There are different
`
`people within RPX, and as a corporation there may be
`
`various representations and various marketing materials
`
`and various publicly available documents that may
`
`discuss different aspects of RPX's various business
`
`lines.
`
`
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`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`So what are RPX's business lines?
`
`What are all of them?
`
`Just do your best.
`
`To the best of your
`
`knowledge, what are RPX's primary --
`
`To the best of your knowledge, what are RPX's
`
`business lines?
`
`A
`
`At a very high level, and this isn't
`
`exhaustive, RPX is involved in securing patent rights
`
`for companies who are sued for patent infringement. Or
`
`companies who are interested in securing licenses,
`
`those
`
`patent rights to patents owned or asserted by NPEs.
`
`NPE
`
`is a term that RPX uses, which is shorthand for non
`
`practicing entity.
`
`Another business line includes the insurance
`
`business. There are a number of companies that
`
`subsidiary RPX insurance services might insure with
`
`respect to patent infringement cases brought by non
`
`practicing entities.
`
`RPX also has a -- consulting services, which
`
`works on a variety of various patent-related consulting
`
`projects.
`
`lines.
`
`There are probably other ones, other business
`
`Q
`
`So amongst the three that you just called out,
`
`
`
`26
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`would you think that —- is it fair to characterize the
`
`first one of securing patent rights as more significant
`
`for RPX than the other two?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I don't know how you would
`
`define more significant.
`
`Is that quantifiable or —— I
`
`guess because, you know, certainly to an employee
`
`working in one of the other lines, it's not more
`
`significant.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Right.
`
`So which business line generates the
`
`most revenue for RPX?
`
`A
`
`To my understanding,
`
`the business line that
`
`generates the most revenue is the securing of patent
`
`rights. What we sometimes refer to as our transactional
`
`business or our acquisitions.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So —— all right.
`
`So —— the
`
`transactional business. That's a great term.
`
`So we'll
`
`use the transactional business as the -- as a way of
`
`referring to RPX's business of securing patent rights.
`
`Is that a fair characterization?
`
`A
`
`If that's a lexicography you want to use,
`
`I --
`
`okay.
`
`Q
`
`That —- I'm sorry. That's RPX's lexicography;
`
`isn't it?
`
`
`
`27
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`B A R K L E Y
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`A
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`Q
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`Transactions capture one aspect of it.
`
`What else does it capture?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: What else does what capture?
`
`Transactions?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`Well, it covers one aspect of the securing of
`
`the patent rights. Not every —— there are related, for
`
`example,
`
`information—gathering ventures that are related
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`to and fit under the securing of patent rights.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Anything else?
`
`Anything else -— any other aspect?
`
`Yeah. Within transactions.
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: Possibly.
`
`I —— there's —— there
`
`may be other aspects of transactions -— I'm not sure I
`
`understand the question. Anything else of ——
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`But I guess nothing else comes to mind?
`
`So
`
`you know, we're talking about RPX's transaction
`
`business. You mentioned securing patent rights. You've
`
`mentioned information gathering.
`
`Does anything else come to mind as parts of
`
`that?
`
`
`
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`B A R K L E Y
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`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: As part of that, you mean as
`
`part of the transactions?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Yes.
`
`A Well,
`
`there's -— depending if transactions is
`
`defined broadly,
`
`then it should cover a lot of that
`
`activity. There's also -- including the —-
`
`including
`
`securing patent rights, for example.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`Now —— so RPX, when it's securing
`
`patent rights, it‘s securing these patent rights, you
`
`said, for -- was it for RPX's members? For RPX's
`
`clients?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`It depends on the patent rights
`
`to which you refer. Every —- every transaction that we
`
`have may result in different rights flowing to different
`
`groups of people. Companies.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And in your job working for RPX, do you
`
`use the terms member or client?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`In my job I do use those terms.
`
`And typically with —- and ——
`
`So typically when you're using those terms and
`
`talking about an RPX member or an RPX client, what would
`
`
`
`29
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`B A R K L E Y
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`you be referring to?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm not sure there's a
`
`100 percent precise definition.
`
`It may depend on the
`
`context in which I'm using it.
`
`An RPX member generally, depending on the
`
`context, may refer to a company that is paying an annual
`
`subscription fee to RPX in order to get patent rights
`
`that RPX secures.
`
`The second part of your question related to
`
`RPX clients. Depending on the context, RPX client
`
`may —— again,
`
`in some context may more broadly refer to
`
`anybody with whom RPX has a business relationship such
`
`that RPX is providing something.
`
`A good or a service
`
`or...
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`So -— thank you.
`
`So you mentioned that there are companies that
`
`have annual subscriptions with RPX; is that correct?
`
`A
`
`I —— I mentioned that companies have annual
`
`subscriptions?
`
`Is that your question?
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yeah. That was your terminology; right?
`
`I believe I used the term companies that pay
`
`an annual subscription fee.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And so companies that pay RPX an annual
`
`
`
`30
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`B A R K L E Y
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`subscription fee,
`
`they're —- RPX refers to them as a
`
`client or a member?
`
`A
`
`Depending on the context,
`
`they might be deemed
`
`an RPX member or client.
`
`Q
`
`And could you explain to me why you would —-
`
`why RPX would call a company an RPX member or an —- like
`
`is there a difference between being an RPX member or an
`
`RPX client when a company is paying an annual
`
`subscription fee?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form and scope.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm not sure I understand ——
`
`when a company is paying an annual subscription fee?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Right.
`
`A
`
`Is there a difference between —— your question
`
`was —- can you just repeat it.
`
`Q
`
`Yeah.
`
`Is there a difference between them
`
`being an RPX member or an RPX client?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form and scope.
`
`THE WITNESS: Depending on the context,
`
`there
`
`might be a difference.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`What kind of -— what would —— what would
`
`create that difference?
`
`A
`
`So ——
`
`
`
`31
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`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
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`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflrl
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`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to scope.
`
`THE WITNESS: Again, it depends purely on the
`
`context.
`
`For example,
`
`in certain contexts,
`
`somebody
`
`who's paying a fee for access to a product called RPX
`
`Insight may not be deemed an RPX member. But they may
`
`be an RPX client.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Now when a company is paying an annual
`
`subscription fee to RPX,
`
`is that -— is there a written
`
`agreement with that company and RPX?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: Are you asking me in all cases
`
`or are you asking me if there's one -— at least one
`
`instance?
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`I think in general does RPX have written
`
`agreements with members or clients that are paying an
`
`annual subscription fee?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`In general, yes.
`
`Okay. And so are —- there may be situations
`
`where RPX has a member or client relationship without a
`
`written agreement?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form and scope.
`
`THE WITNESS: None —— none come to mind.
`
`
`
`32
`
`STEVE CHIANG ' CONFIDENTIAL
`
`B A R K L E Y
`Gnu” Ronlflr.
`
`
`
`
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So in your understanding —— so to your
`
`best recollection, when RPX is —— has a member or a
`
`client paying an annual subscription fee,
`
`there's always
`
`a written agreement?
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Objection to form and scope.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`Sorry. What was the preface on
`
`that?
`
`To my -—
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`To your best understanding.
`
`To your best
`
`knowledge.
`
`MR. GIUNTA: Again, objection to form and
`
`scope. Sorry.
`
`THE WITNESS: One way to answer that question
`
`is to say that I'm not aware of any company that's
`
`paying RPX an annual subscription fee who does not have
`
`a written agreement with RPX.
`
`BY MR. SEREBOFF
`
`Q
`
`Great.
`
`Now Salesforce —— is Salesforce an RPX
`
`member?
`
`A —
`
`Q
`
`And is Salesforce an RPX client?
`
`A—
`
`Q
`
`And there ar
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