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`· · · · · ·IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·
`· · ·HNI CORPORATION and· · · · · · *
`· · ·ALLSTEEL INC.,· · · · · · · · ·*
`· · · · · · · · Petitioners,· · · · *Case No. IPR2015-01691
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · *
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · *Patent No. 8,024,901
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · *
`· · ·DIRTT ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTIONS· *Issue Date:· September 27, 2011
`· · ·LTD.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·*
`· · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · · *
`·
`
`· · · · · · · Title:· INTEGRATED RECONFIGURABLE WALL SYSTEM
`
`· · ·---------------------------------------------------------------
`
`· · · · · · ·ORAL DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D.
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · NOVEMBER 12, 2018
`
`· · ·---------------------------------------------------------------
`
`· · · · · ·ORAL DEPOSITION of JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D., produced
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`· · ·as a witness at the instance of the Patent Owner and duly
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`· · ·sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause on
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`· · ·November 12, 2018, from 9:00 a.m. to 10:44 a.m., before
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`· · ·Sherri K. Williamson, Notary Public in and for the State of
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`· · ·Texas, reported by method of machine shorthand at the offices
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`· · ·of U.S. Legal Support, 701 Brazos, Suite 380, Austin, Travis
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`· · ·County, Texas 78701, pursuant to the provisions stated on the
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`· · ·record or attached hereto.
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`· · · · · ·It is stipulated and agreed by and between Counsel and
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`· · ·the respective parties hereto that the Deposition of the
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`· · ·Witness named in the caption hereto may be taken at this time
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`· · ·and place, pursuant to Notice, and that the said deposition or
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-001
`IPR2015-01691
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`· · · · · ·IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·
`· · ·HNI CORPORATION and· · · · · · *
`· · ·ALLSTEEL INC.,· · · · · · · · ·*
`· · · · · · · · Petitioners,· · · · *Case No. IPR2015-01691
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · *
`· · ·VS.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · *Patent No. 8,024,901
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · *
`· · ·DIRTT ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTIONS· *Issue Date:· September 27, 2011
`· · ·LTD.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·*
`· · · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · · *
`·
`
`· · · · · · · Title:· INTEGRATED RECONFIGURABLE WALL SYSTEM
`
`· · ·---------------------------------------------------------------
`
`· · · · · · ·ORAL DEPOSITION OF JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D.
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · NOVEMBER 12, 2018
`
`· · ·---------------------------------------------------------------
`
`· · · · · ·ORAL DEPOSITION of JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D., produced
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`· · ·as a witness at the instance of the Patent Owner and duly
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`· · ·sworn, was taken in the above-styled and numbered cause on
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`· · ·November 12, 2018, from 9:00 a.m. to 10:44 a.m., before
`
`· · ·Sherri K. Williamson, Notary Public in and for the State of
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`· · ·Texas, reported by method of machine shorthand at the offices
`
`· · ·of U.S. Legal Support, 701 Brazos, Suite 380, Austin, Travis
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`· · ·County, Texas 78701, pursuant to the provisions stated on the
`
`· · ·record or attached hereto.
`
`· · · · · ·It is stipulated and agreed by and between Counsel and
`
`· · ·the respective parties hereto that the Deposition of the
`
`· · ·Witness named in the caption hereto may be taken at this time
`
`· · ·and place, pursuant to Notice, and that the said deposition or
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-001
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-002
`IPR2015-01691
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·any part thereof, when so taken, may be used on the trial of
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`·2· ·this case the same as if the Witness were present in court,
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`·3· ·testifying in person.
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·* * * * * *
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-003
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2· ·FOR THE PETITIONERS:
`· · · · · ·FAEGRE BAKER DANIELS
`·3· · · · ·2200 Wells Fargo Center
`· · · · · ·90 S. Seventh St.
`·4· · · · ·Minneapolis, MN 55402
`· · · · · ·timothy.sullivan@faegrebd.com
`·5· · · · ·BY:· MR. TIMOTHY SULLIVAN
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`·6· ·FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`· · · · · ·WORKMAN NYDEGGER
`·7· · · · ·60 East South Temple St., Suite 1000
`· · · · · ·Salt Lake City, UT 84111
`·8· · · · ·Tel.: (801)533-9800 Fax: (801)328-1707
`· · · · · ·cnydegger@wnlaw.com
`·9· · · · ·BY:· MR. CHAD E. NYDEGGER
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`10· · · · ·JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D.,
`· · · · · · · · The Witness;
`11
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`12· · · · ·SHERRI K. WILLIAMSON,
`· · · · · · · · Notary Public
`13· · · · · · · in and for the State of Texas
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · * * * * * *
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-004
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · I N D E X
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·3· ·STIPULATIONS.................................................1
`· · ·APPEARANCES..................................................3
`·4
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`·5· ·EXAMINATION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·6· ·JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D.
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`·7· ·Examination by Mr. Nydegger· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 5
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`·8· ·Examination by Mr. Sullivan· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·54
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`·9· ·Examination by Mr. Nydegger· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·56
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`11· ·EXHIBITS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`12· ·1038· · (Previously marked) Supplemental Declaration of
`· · · · · · · Joseph J. Beaman, Jr.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·7
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`14· ·1003· · (Previously marked) U.S. Patent - Raith et al.· · · ·9
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`15· ·1018· · (Previously marked) Expert Declaration of
`· · · · · · · Joseph J. Beaman, Jr.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 16
`16
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`17· ·1006· · U.S. Patent Application Publication -
`· · · · · · ·MacGregor et al.· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 41
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`19· ·1004· · (Previously marked) EVH patent documents· · · · · · 58
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`21· ·SIGNATURE AND CHANGES.......................................60
`· · ·REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE......................................61
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-005
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · JOSEPH J. BEAMAN, JR., PH.D.,
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`·2· · · · ·having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
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`·4· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Good morning, Dr. Beaman.
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`·5· · · · A· · Good morning.
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`·6· · · · Q· · Could you please state your name for the record.
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`·7· · · · A· · Joseph J. Beaman.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Thank you.· And could you also please provide your
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`·9· ·address?
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`10· · · · A· · 700 Texas Avenue, Austin, Texas.
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`11· · · · Q· · And, Dr. Beaman, I know that you've been deposed a
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`12· ·number of times before, but I'm just going to go over a few
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`13· ·quick ground rules, just as reminders for you and for me.
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`14· ·Okay?
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`15· · · · A· · Yes.
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`16· · · · Q· · So as you know, I'll be asking you questions, and
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`17· ·Sherri here will be taking down everything that we say.· And so
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`18· ·to make her job easier and to have a clear record, if we can
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`19· ·remember not to talk over each other, then that will really
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`20· ·facilitate us getting through the deposition smoothly.· Is that
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`21· ·amenable to you?
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`22· · · · A· · Yes, it is.
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`23· · · · Q· · Perfect.· And if you don't understand a question,
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`24· ·feel free to ask me to rephrase it or just let me know that you
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`25· ·don't understand it, and I'll do my best to rephrase it in a
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-006
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·different way that you can understand so that the record will
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`·2· ·reflect that if you answer a question, you're answering the
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`·3· ·question that I ask, not a different understanding or a
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`·4· ·different question.· Do you understand that?
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`·5· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`·6· · · · Q· · And, also, if you could listen to the questions
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`·7· ·carefully and provide the answer that's asked.· So, for
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`·8· ·example, if I ask for a "yes" or "no" question, if you could
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`·9· ·limit your answer to a "yes" or "no" answer, I would appreciate
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`10· ·that.· And then if there's further explanation that I would
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`11· ·like or that your counsel would like, then we'll ask you for
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`12· ·that further explanation.· Do you understand that?
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`13· · · · A· · Not completely.· Does that mean he can ask me
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`14· ·questions in the middle of this?
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`15· · · · Q· · Not in the middle, but he'll get his turn.
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`16· · · · A· · Okay.
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`17· · · · Q· · He'll be taking notes, and he'll go back and he'll
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`18· ·ask you additional questions to clarify where he thinks it's
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`19· ·necessary.· Okay?
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`20· · · · · · · · · And if I ask a "yes" or "no" question and you
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`21· ·can't give a "yes" or "no" answer because it's probably a
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`22· ·poorly worded question on my part, just let me know.· Say, "I
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`23· ·can't answer that question with a 'yes' or 'no' answer," and
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`24· ·then we can proceed from there.· Okay?
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`25· · · · A· · Okay.
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-007
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · Q· · All right.· Also, as you know from being deposed,
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`·2· ·your counsel here will, at times, state objections for the
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`·3· ·record; however, unless he specifically instructs you not to
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`·4· ·answer a question, then you go ahead and answer the question
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`·5· ·after he's lodged his objection.· Do you understand that?
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`·6· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`·7· · · · Q· · Okay.· And, last, whereas you are now under oath, I'm
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`·8· ·entitled to discover any communications that you have until the
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`·9· ·deposition is closed, and that includes correspondence with
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`10· ·Mr. Sullivan during breaks or during lunch or anything like
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`11· ·that because you're under oath from now until the deposition
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`12· ·concludes.· Do you understand that?
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`13· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`14· · · · Q· · Okay.· Well, with that, let's dive in.
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`15· · · · · · · · · Dr. Beaman, I am handing you an exhibit that was
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`16· ·previously marked as Exhibit 1038.
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`17· · · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 1038 previously marked)
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`18· · · · Q· · (BY MR. SULLIVAN) Dr. Beaman, do you recognize this
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`19· ·as the supplemental declaration that you have submitted in the
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`20· ·IPR2015-01691?
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`21· · · · A· · Yes, I do recognize it.
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`22· · · · Q· · And that's your signature on the last page?
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`23· · · · A· · Yes, it is.
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`24· · · · Q· · Okay.· If you would turn to Paragraph 3, please.· And
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`25· ·in the second-to-last sentence in that paragraph, you state,
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-008
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·quote, "My specific opinions on how the relevant prior art
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`·2· ·combinations teach each element of the newly instituted claims
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`·3· ·remain unchanged and I do not intend, through this report, to
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`·4· ·add to or change my previously disclosed opinions," closed
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`·5· ·quote.· Do you see that?
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`·6· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`·7· · · · Q· · And is it correct that in that sentence you're
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`·8· ·stating that you're not adding to or changing the opinions that
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`·9· ·you rendered in your original declaration submitted in this
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`10· ·IPR?
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`11· · · · A· · I believe that's correct, yes.
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`12· · · · Q· · Okay.· Dr. Beaman, are you familiar with the
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`13· ·manufacturing process of extrusion?
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`14· · · · A· · Yes, I am.
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`15· · · · Q· · Are you familiar with the manufacturing process using
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`16· ·roll forming?
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`17· · · · A· · Yes, I am.
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`18· · · · Q· · And are there parts that could be manufactured using
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`19· ·one of those processes, but not the other?
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`20· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`21· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· There are parts, yeah, that it
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`22· ·would be much easier to do one method other than the other one,
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`23· ·yes.
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`24· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) So there are instances in which it
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`25· ·would be -- a person of skill in the art of the 901 patent
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-009
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·would view manufacturing one type of part -- or one part as
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`·2· ·impractical using one or the other methods; is that correct?
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`·3· · · · A· · Maybe not economic.· You probably -- maybe could do
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`·4· ·it, but you may not want to do it.
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`·5· · · · Q· · Would it be -- Are there -- Can you think of any
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`·6· ·parts that could not be manufactured using either roll forming
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`·7· ·or extrusion?
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`·8· · · · · · · · · Let me rephrase that.· Can you think of any
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`·9· ·parts that could be manufactured using either roll forming or
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`10· ·extrusion, but not the other manufacturing process?
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`11· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`12· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, I could.· Yeah.
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`13· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· So not all parts can be
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`14· ·manufactured using both processes; correct?
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`15· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`16· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yeah.· You could extrude at an
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`17· ·intern hole, but you couldn't really -- would be very difficult
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`18· ·to roll form.· I guess you could close it over, but it would be
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`19· ·difficult.
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`20· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· Can you think of any
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`21· ·parts -- Well, strike that.
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`22· · · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 1003 previously marked)
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`23· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Dr. Beaman, I'm handing you what
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`24· ·has been previously marked as Exhibit 1003.
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`25· · · · A· · Yes.
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · Q· · Do you recognize this as the prior art reference we
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`·2· ·commonly have referred to as the Raith reference in this IPR?
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`·3· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`·4· · · · · · · · · MR. NYDEGGER:· That's R-A-I-T-H.
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`·5· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) And if you turn to Figures 1
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`·6· ·through 5 --
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`·7· · · · A· · Yes.
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`·8· · · · Q· · -- these are the solid panels of Raith; correct?
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`·9· · · · A· · Yes.· I mean, they're part of them, sure.
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`10· · · · Q· · In fact, Figures 1 through 5 are just different views
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`11· ·of the same part in different configurations; correct?
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`12· · · · A· · Figure 1 is -- I have to read the patent again for
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`13· ·Figure 1.· (Reviewing document) Yeah.· So Figure 1 is prior to
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`14· ·being formed and then Figure 3, I'm sure, is after forming.
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`15· · · · Q· · Okay.· And then Figure 4 is just a side view, and
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`16· ·then Figure 5 shows two of those panels that have been formed
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`17· ·clipped together; correct?
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`18· · · · A· · I don't think so.· Figure 5 is --
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`19· · · · Q· · Maybe I can --
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`20· · · · A· · It's a broken perspective -- oh, "employing two face
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`21· ·plates," yeah, so -- Okay.· Right.
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`22· · · · Q· · So we have the -- I believe it's Face Plate 11, and
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`23· ·you can see that there's Face Plate 11 in Figures 1 through 5.
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`24· ·Can you see that?
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`25· · · · A· · Face Plate 11?· I'm sorry.· I don't see it yet.· Oh,
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·here.· No, no.
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`·2· · · · Q· · (Indicating)
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`·3· · · · A· · Yeah.· Yes.· Okay.
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`·4· · · · Q· · (Indicating)
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`·5· · · · A· · And there, yes.
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`·6· · · · Q· · And then -- (Indicating)
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`·7· · · · A· · And then 11 there, yes, and 11, right, yes
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`·8· ·(Indicating).
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`·9· · · · Q· · And so --
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`10· · · · A· · And the two sides of it, yes.
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`11· · · · Q· · Okay.· So we're in agreement that Face Plate 11 is
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`12· ·shown in different states of manufacturing and in different
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`13· ·configurations in Figures 1 through 5; correct?
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`14· · · · A· · Yes.
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`15· · · · Q· · Okay.· Great.
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`16· · · · A· · Yes.
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`17· · · · Q· · Thank you.· And would it be practical to manufacture
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`18· ·the -- Well, let me step back.
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`19· · · · · · · · · The Face Plate 11, that's intended to be a
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`20· ·floor-to-ceiling solid panel in a reconfigurable wall; is that
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`21· ·correct?
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`22· · · · A· · I don't remember it goes all the way to the ceiling,
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`23· ·but it's certainly a panel in a reconfigurable wall.
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`24· · · · Q· · Okay.· Do you want to turn to Figure 13?
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`25· · · · A· · Yes.
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · Q· · And towards the right-hand side, do you see
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`·2· ·Panel 266, for example?
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`·3· · · · A· · I will in a minute here.· (Reviewing document) 266,
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`·4· ·yes.
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`·5· · · · Q· · And that's a solid panel that goes from the floor to
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`·6· ·the ceiling; correct?
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`·7· · · · A· · It appears to.· I mean, there's some trim and there's
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`·8· ·some things up above which appear to be the ceiling, yes.
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`·9· · · · Q· · And that's a panel manufactured using the solid
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`10· ·Face Plate 11 that we looked at in Figures 1 through 5;
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`11· ·correct?
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`12· · · · A· · It probably doesn't go and state that, but that would
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`13· ·be the inference, I believe.
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`14· · · · Q· · Okay.· So do you agree that these panels could be
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`15· ·floor-to-ceiling panels, these Face Plate 11?
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`16· · · · A· · They could be, yes.
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`17· · · · Q· · Okay.· And would it be practical to manufacture those
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`18· ·panels -- solid panels with an extrusion process?
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`19· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`20· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The whole panel itself?
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`21· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Yes.· Well, Panel 11 is a --
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`22· ·Face Plate 11 is one singular piece; correct?
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`23· · · · A· · Yes, it is.
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`24· · · · Q· · And so would it be practical to manufacture that
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`25· ·using an extrusion process?
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Objection; form.
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`·2· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I'm not sure you'd want to do the
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`·3· ·whole panel, but you can certainly do the side parts of it with
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`·4· ·extrusion and attach it to it.· So, yeah you could -- by
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`·5· ·assembly, you could, but whether you do it -- do a -- This has
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`·6· ·been set up for roll forming, which is off of one plate.
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`·7· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· And so going back to my
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`·8· ·question -- It's not quite clear to me what your answer is.
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`·9· ·Would it be practical, from a manufacturing perspective, to
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`10· ·manufacture these Face Plate 11 parts using an extrusion
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`11· ·process?
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`12· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Objection; form.
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`13· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Well, I could have the plates and
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`14· ·the -- and extrude out the side pieces.· Yes, I could do that.
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`15· ·I mean, do it as one piece?· I mean, I don't think I'm required
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`16· ·to do it as one piece.
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`17· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· So you would not extrude it
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`18· ·as one piece, then?· Is that what you're saying?· It would not
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`19· ·be practical to extrude this as one piece?
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`20· · · · A· · I don't think it would be the -- Could I extrude it
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`21· ·out?· Yeah.· Typically, extrusions are not wide pieces like
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`22· ·this.· Could I?· I guess I could.· It wouldn't be economical to
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`23· ·do.
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`24· · · · Q· · Okay.· So a person of skill in the art wouldn't
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`25· ·extrude the Face Plate 11, as shown -- as that part is shown in
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· ·the Raith patent; correct?
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`·2· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`·3· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Just that particular piece, I
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`·4· ·don't think I would do it that way, but I could definitely --
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`·5· ·in pieces, I could do the side portions and then attach the
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`·6· ·panel to it.
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`·7· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· So if you did it in -- If
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`·8· ·you manufactured the part in the way you've just described,
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`·9· ·extruding the side pieces and then attaching them to the panel,
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`10· ·would that be a preferred way of manufacturing the part as
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`11· ·opposed to roll forming it?
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`12· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`13· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It could be if I want to change
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`14· ·out the different kind of panels that go in the middle,
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`15· ·depending on what you're trying to do, and that -- and then --
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`16· ·This patent does talk about that.· Sometimes I don't want to
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`17· ·use panels.· I want to use glass, for example.
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`18· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Well, let's just talk about the
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`19· ·solid Face Plate 11, because the solid face plate is not --
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`20· · · · A· · But you were talking about all the elements in this
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`21· ·patent (Indicating).
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`22· · · · Q· · No, no.
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`23· · · · A· · You're talking about that particular one?
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`24· · · · Q· · I'm talking about this particular element, this
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`25· ·Face Plate No. 11.
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · A· · And your question again?· I'm sorry.· State it.
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`·2· · · · Q· · Was whether it would be advantageous to manufacture
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`·3· ·the Face Plate 11, which is a solid panel, by extruding the
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`·4· ·side portions and then attaching them to the flat panel
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`·5· ·portion.
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`·6· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`·7· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Yes, it could be, depending on
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`·8· ·what my distribution was and how many panels like that you want
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`·9· ·to have.· So the answer is, yes, it could be economic.· It
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`10· ·might be the way you want to do it, depending on the supply
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`11· ·chain you have and what you're trying to do.
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`12· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· Would it be more or less
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`13· ·expensive than roll forming?
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`14· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`15· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) To extrude the two sides and then
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`16· ·attach the two sides to a flat panel, would that be more
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`17· ·expensive or less expensive than taking just one sheet and roll
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`18· ·forming it, as shown in Raith?
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`19· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Objection; form.
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`20· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Well, if I use the same side
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`21· ·pieces for the variety of types of panels, it could be less
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`22· ·expensive to do it that way.
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`23· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· And if this is the only use
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`24· ·of those side pieces, then would it be more expensive or less
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`25· ·expensive?
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`16
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`·1· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Objection; form.
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`·2· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) So you're not getting economies of
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`·3· ·scale of other parts that we're not talking about?
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`·4· · · · A· · But that's how I view the Raith patent, but -- I
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`·5· ·mean, if that's the only thing I could build, would I -- and
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`·6· ·I'm only -- I have to start with this -- with the Sheet 11,
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`·7· ·would I extrude that?· I don't think so, if that's your
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`·8· ·question.
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`·9· · · · Q· · Okay.· So is it fair, then, to say that whether a
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`10· ·particular part would be manufactured using a roll forming
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`11· ·process or an extrusion process -- Well, let's strike that.
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`12· ·We'll move on.
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`13· · · · · · · · (Exhibit No. 1018 previously marked)
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`14· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Dr. Beaman, I'm handing you what's
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`15· ·been previously marked as Exhibit 1018.
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`16· · · · A· · Yes.
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`17· · · · Q· · Do you recognize that document?
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`18· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`19· · · · Q· · And is this the original expert declaration that you
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`20· ·submitted in this IPR?
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`21· · · · A· · I believe it's the first one, yes.
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`22· · · · Q· · Okay.· So this is the declaration that you state
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`23· ·contains all your opinions, and your second declaration,
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`24· ·Exhibit 1038, does not add to or change anything expressed in
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`25· ·Exhibit 1018; correct?
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-017
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`·1· · · · A· · I think I also had a reply dec, too, that -- after
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`·2· ·this that was part of the -- I guess -- It's been two years
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`·3· ·ago, so I'm trying to remember it all, but --
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`·4· · · · Q· · Okay.
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`·5· · · · A· · There was this, and I believe there was a reply
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`·6· ·declaration to the patent owner's response or something. I
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`·7· ·can't really remember all of it, but I think that's correct.
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`·8· · · · Q· · All right.· So your supplemental declaration does not
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`·9· ·add to or change anything that was submitted in Exhibit 1018
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`10· ·and any reply declaration that you've already submitted in the
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`11· ·case; is that correct?
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`12· · · · A· · I believe that would be correct, yes.
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`13· · · · Q· · Okay.· Thank you.· Could you turn to Paragraphs 97
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`14· ·through 100 in Exhibit 1018, your original declaration?
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`15· · · · A· · Yes.
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`16· · · · Q· · In Paragraphs 97 through 100 of your original
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`17· ·declaration, this is your opinion concerning the
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`18· ·unpatentability of Claim 11 of the 901 patent; correct?
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`19· · · · A· · That is correct, yes.
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`20· · · · Q· · Okay.· And you quote the language of Claim 11 on
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`21· ·Page 43, just before Paragraph 97; correct?
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`22· · · · A· · Yes, I do.
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`23· · · · Q· · Okay.· And Claim 11 recites a universal foot, a
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`24· ·leveller, and a structural extrusion; correct?
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`25· · · · A· · Universal foot, leveller, and structural extrusion,
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`18
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`·1· ·yes.
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`·2· · · · Q· · Okay.· Thank you.· Now, in Paragraph 98 of your
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`·3· ·declaration, you include two annotated figures.· Do you see
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`·4· ·that?
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`·5· · · · A· · Yes.
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`·6· · · · Q· · And these are annotated figures from the EVH prior
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`·7· ·art reference; correct?
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`·8· · · · A· · That, I believe, is correct.
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`·9· · · · Q· · An annotated version of Figure 10 of EVH and an
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`10· ·annotated version of Figure 11 of EVH; correct?
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`11· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`12· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Might be 12.· Can I make sure I
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`13· ·can read it?
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`14· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) You know what?· You're correct.
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`15· · · · A· · Okay.
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`16· · · · Q· · It's an annotated Figure 10 and an annotated
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`17· ·Figure 12 of EVH?
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`18· · · · A· · I believe that's correct, yes.
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`19· · · · Q· · Okay.· And on those annotated Figures 10 and 12 of
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`20· ·EVH, you identify the universal foot of the levelling system of
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`21· ·Claim 11; correct?
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`22· · · · A· · Yes.
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`23· · · · Q· · And you've identified that in green coloring;
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`24· ·correct?
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`25· · · · A· · That is correct.
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`19
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`·1· · · · Q· · And then on those same annotated Figures 10 and 12 of
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`·2· ·EVH, you also identify the leveller of the levelling system;
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`·3· ·correct?
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`·4· · · · A· · That would be the -- Yes.
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`·5· · · · Q· · And you've identified that by coloring the leveller
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`·6· ·of Claim 11 blue; correct?
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`·7· · · · A· · That is correct.
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`·8· · · · Q· · And on those annotated Figures 10 and 12 of EVH, do
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`·9· ·you identify the structural extrusion?
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`10· · · · A· · I do not identify that in this figure.
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`11· · · · Q· · And looking at Paragraphs 97 through 100 of your
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`12· ·declaration, in those paragraphs do you discuss the structural
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`13· ·extrusion?
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`14· · · · A· · I do not discuss the -- I don't use the word
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`15· ·"extrusion," no.
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`16· · · · Q· · And so, no, you don't discuss it; is that correct?
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`17· · · · A· · Except I know the structural extrusion has to be
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`18· ·connected to the leveller, and I do talk about the -- the
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`19· ·wall -- the -- I forgot the name of the thing -- vertical post
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`20· ·is with the sole connection to the panel, so...
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`21· · · · Q· · So you know that the structural extrusion must be
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`22· ·connected to the leveller, you stated, but you don't discuss a
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`23· ·structural extrusion in these Paragraphs 97 through 100;
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`24· ·correct?
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`25· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-020
`IPR2015-01691
`
`
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`20
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`·1· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Other than the strong implication
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`·2· ·it would be the -- it would be the vertical post because that's
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`·3· ·what's connected, yes.· I don't use the word "extrusion."
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`·4· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Okay.· So you don't use the word --
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`·5· ·the phrase "structural extrusion" at all in Paragraphs 97
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`·6· ·through 100; correct?
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`·7· · · · A· · I believe that is correct.
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`·8· · · · Q· · Okay.· Now, Claim 11 depends from Claim 1; correct?
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`·9· · · · A· · Yes.
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`10· · · · Q· · Okay.· And so your opinion that Claim 11 would have
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`11· ·been obvious builds upon your opinion that Claim 1 would have
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`12· ·been obvious; correct?
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`13· · · · A· · Yeah.· I believe that's correct, yes.
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`14· · · · Q· · And so if we turn to Paragraphs 71 through 73 of your
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`15· ·Exhibit 1018 --
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`16· · · · A· · Yes.
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`17· · · · Q· · -- in these paragraphs you offer an opinion about the
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`18· ·vertical end frames of the panel recited in Claim 1; correct?
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`19· · · · A· · Yeah.· It's just been a while since I -- This --
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`20· ·Yeah, this element it's discussing here is "a vertical end
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`21· ·frame disposed adjacent to each of said right and left" -- The
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`22· ·element I'm discussing there certainly has, in the paragraph
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`23· ·right before, "a vertical end frame disposed adjacent to each
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`24· ·of said right and left side edges."
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`25· · · · Q· · Okay.· And so the vertical end frames are part of the
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`DIRTT EXHIBIT 2010-021
`IPR2015-01691
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`
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`Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018Joseph Beaman· *· November 12, 2018
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`21
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`·1· ·wall module; correct?
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`·2· · · · A· · Yes.· I believe that's correct, yes.
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`·3· · · · Q· · They are -- They form the left and right sides of the
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`·4· ·wall module, as you just read; correct?
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`·5· · · · A· · I believe that's correct, yes.
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`·6· · · · Q· · Okay.· And in your Paragraphs 71 through 73, there's
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`·7· ·no mention of the EVH prior reference at all; correct?
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`·8· · · · A· · Let me make sure.· (Reviewing document)
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`·9· · · · · · · · · No, I don't believe it talks about EVH in 71 and
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`10· ·73 -- through 73.
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`11· · · · Q· · Okay.· So in your original declaration, Exhibit 1018,
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`12· ·you offered no opinion that EVH teaches the vertical end frames
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`13· ·required by Claim 1; correct?
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`14· · · · · · · · · MR. SULLIVAN:· Object to form.
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`15· · · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, I didn't talk about that --
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`16· ·that the -- that EVH has a vertical end frame, but it does.
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`17· · · · Q· · (BY MR. NYDEGGER) Well -- Now, the vertical end frame
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`18· ·of Claim 1 was what my question was directed to, because you
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`19· ·see that the language that you quote just before Paragraph 71
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`20· ·is the language from Claim 1 regarding a vertical end frame;
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`21· ·correct?
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`22· · · · A· · Yes, but I'm not saying that the EVH doesn't have
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`23· ·one.· I
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