·1· · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· ·NISSAN NORTH AMERICA, INC.,)· IPR 2015-01508
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`·5· · · · · ·Petitioner,· · · · )· IPR 2015-01509,
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`·6· · · · · ·v.· · · · · · · · ·)· IPR 2015-01585,
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`·7· ·JOAO CONTROL & MONITORING· )· IPR 2015-01545,
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`·8· ·SYSTEMS, LLC,· · · · · · · )· Patent No.
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`·9· · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )· · ·6,542,076 B1
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`10· · · · · · · · ·- - - - - - - - - - -
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`11
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`12· · · · · · DEPOSITION OF DAVID A. MCNAMARA
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · ·VOLUME II
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`15· · · ·CONFIDENTIAL PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
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`17· · · · · · · · · · ·March 16, 2016
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`23· ·Reported by:· Lori J. Goodin, RPR, CLR, CRR,
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`24· · · · · · · · ·Realtime Systems Administrator
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`25· ·Assignment No. 117083
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`·2· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· ·NISSAN NORTH AMERICA, INC.,)· IPR 2015-01508
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`·5· · · · · ·Petitioner,· · · · )· IPR 2015-01509,
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`·6· · · · · ·v.· · · · · · · · ·)· IPR 2015-01585,
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`·7· ·JOAO CONTROL & MONITORING· )· IPR 2015-01545,
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`·8· ·SYSTEMS, LLC,· · · · · · · )· Patent No.
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`·9· · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )· · ·6,542,076 B1
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`10· · · · · · · · ·- - - - - - - - - - -
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`11
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`12· · · · · · DEPOSITION OF DAVID A. MCNAMARA
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`13· · · · · · · · · · · ·VOLUME II
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`15· · · ·CONFIDENTIAL PURSUANT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
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`17· · · · · · · · · · ·March 16, 2016
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`23· ·Reported by:· Lori J. Goodin, RPR, CLR, CRR,
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`24· · · · · · · · ·Realtime Systems Administrator
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`25· ·Assignment No. 117083
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`·3· · · · · · · · The deposition of DAVID A. MCNAMARA
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`·4· ·was convened on Wednesday, March 16, 2016,
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`·5· ·commencing at 9:15 a.m., at the offices of
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`·7· · · KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON LLP
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`·8· · · Suite 900
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`·9· · · 607 14th Street, Northwest
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`10· · · Washington, D.C.· 20005
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`12· ·before Lori J. Goodin, Registered Professional
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`13· ·Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter, Certified
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`14· ·Realtime Reporter, Realtime Systems Administrator,
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`15· ·and Notary Public in and for the District of
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`16· ·Columbia.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · APPEARANCES
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`·2
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`·3· ·For Petitioner:
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`·4· · · SHAYNE E. O'REILLY, Esquire
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`·5· · · KILPATRICK TOWNSEND & STOCKTON LLP
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`·6· · · Suite 2800
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`·7· · · 1100 Peachtree Street, Northeast
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`·8· · · Atlanta, Georgia· 30309
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`·9· · · 404-745-2545
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`10· · · SOReilly@kilparticktownsend.com
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`12· ·For Patent Owner:
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`13· · · STEVEN RITCHESON, Esquire
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`14· · · INSIGHT PLC
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`15· · · 9800D Topanga Canyon Boulevard #347
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`16· · · Chatsworth, California· 91311
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`17· · · 818-882-1030
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`18· · · swritcheson@insight.com
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·APPEARANCES CONTINUED
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`·2
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`·3· · · RENÉ A. VASQUEZ, Esquire
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`·4· · · SINERGIA TECHNOLOGY LAW GROUP, PLLC
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`·5· · · 18326 Buccaneer Terrace
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`·6· · · Leesburg, Virginia· 20176
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`·7· · · (Via telephone)
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`11· ·Also present:
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`12· · · Raymond Joao, Joao Control and Monitoring
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`13· · · · · · · · · · System, LLC
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · CONTENTS
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`·2· ·EXAMINATION BY· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·3· ·Mr. Ritcheson· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 233
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`·4· ·Mr. O'Reilly· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·385
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`·5
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · EXHIBITS
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`·7· ·MCNAMARA
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`·8· ·NO.· · · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·9· ·Exhibit 12· Paper 10, filed 1/28/2016, in· · ·284
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`10· · · · · · · ·USPTO Decision, Institution of
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`11· · · · · · · ·Inter Partes Review,
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`12· · · · · · · ·37 C.F.R. 42.108
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`13· ·Exhibit 13· US Patent 6,236,365, LeBlanc· · · 286
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`14· ·Exhibit 14· Driori patent· · · · · · · · · · ·310
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`15· ·Exhibit 15· Simms patent· · · · · · · · · · · 322
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`16· ·Exhibit 16· Shimizu patent· · · · · · · · · · 338
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`17· ·Exhibit 17· Spaur patent· · · · · · · · · · · 354
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`18· ·Exhibit 18· Johnson '254 patent· · · · · · · ·359
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`19· ·Exhibit 19· Rossman '415 patent· · · · · · · ·359
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · *· * *
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · PROCEEDINGS
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`·2· · · · · · · · · ·DAVID A. McNAMARA
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`·3· ·a witness called for examination, having been
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`·4· ·previously duly sworn, was examined and testified
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`·5· ·further as follows:
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`·6· · · · · · · · ·CONTINUED EXAMINATION
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`·7· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`·8· · · · · Q.· · Mr. McNamara, you are still under
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`·9· ·oath from yesterday.· Do you understand that?
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`10· · · · · A.· · Yes, I do.· I am under oath.
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`11· · · · · Q.· · I trust you did not speak with
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`12· ·anybody about your testimony?
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`13· · · · · A.· · No, I did not.
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`14· · · · · Q.· · Did you read any documents for
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`15· ·preparing yourself to testify today, last night?
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`16· · · · · A.· · I refreshed myself by reading my
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`17· ·declaration, that is it.
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`18· · · · · Q.· · We broke yesterday speaking about
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`19· ·the combination of Pagliaroli as a base reference
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`20· ·with Frossard as a secondary reference.· Do you
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`21· ·remember that?
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`22· · · · · A.· · Yes, I do.
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`23· · · · · Q.· · Now, at the end of the day
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`24· ·yesterday, you, if you look at -- if you turn to
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`25· ·Pagliaroli which is the base reference,
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`·1· ·Exhibit 11, you directed our attention to -- and
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`·2· ·my recollection is that there is a line of
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`·3· ·questioning having to do with whether the mobile
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`·4· ·tower, or the cell tower was, had intelligence.
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`·5· · · · · · · · And you directed our attention to
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`·6· ·the bottom of Column 5, and the top of Line 6.
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`·7· ·Am I generally accurate in my recollection?
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`·8· · · · · A.· · I would have to -- can I read my
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`·9· ·answer from last time?
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`10· · · · · · · · MR. RITCHESON:· Can we access his
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`11· · · ·answer from yesterday?
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`12· · · · · · · · (Whereupon, a discussion off the
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`13· · · ·record took place.)
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`14· · · · · · · · (Whereupon, the record was read by
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`15· · · ·the reporter as requested.)
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`16· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`17· · · · · Q.· · Does the cell tower in Pagliaroli
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`18· ·have intelligence?
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`19· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`20· · · · · Q.· · What does the term intelligence mean
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`21· ·as you have just used that term?
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`22· · · · · A.· · Generally, to me being able to
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`23· ·perform operations, actions, determine as all
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`24· ·cell towers, is this an authorized user,
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`25· ·security, you know, it can be as mundane as a
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`·1· ·mobile phone user paid their bills, you know,
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`·2· ·should they place the call.
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`·3· · · · · · · · And then also making sure that the
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`·4· ·information is correctly formatted and, you know,
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`·5· ·translated into the protocol, the mobile
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`·6· ·telephone protocol which could be CDMA, it could
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`·7· ·be other, you know, protocols for communication
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`·8· ·and send it to the car.
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`·9· · · · · Q.· · In 1993, did all cell towers have
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`10· ·the intelligence that you have just described?
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`11· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`12· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And, what is a cell tower in
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`13· ·the answer you just gave?
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`14· · · · · A.· · Cell tower, well, I was not talking
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`15· ·about a cell tower specifically; I was talking
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`16· ·about a mobile communication system, because I
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`17· ·mentioned elements of server, communications to
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`18· ·the mobile user, communications to the car.
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`19· · · · · · · · So, a cell tower would be part of
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`20· ·the communication system.
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`21· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· So the cell tower itself does
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`22· ·not have the intelligence attributes that you
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`23· ·have just described; is that correct?
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`24· · · · · A.· · It may not have the billing --
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`25· · · · · Q.· · It may not have the what?
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`·1· · · · · A.· · It may not have the billing and
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`·2· ·other functions.· It might have intelligence
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`·3· ·to -- it definitely has intelligence to be able
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`·4· ·to operate the communications protocol.
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`·5· · · · · Q.· · And, again I understand, but I want
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`·6· ·to make sure that you agree, that we are talking
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`·7· ·about cell towers as they existed in 1993.
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`·8· ·Correct?
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`·9· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`10· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And -- actually I misstated.
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`11· ·It is actually cell towers as they existed in
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`12· ·1991 because that is the date that Pagliaroli
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`13· ·actually discloses the cell tower, correct?
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`14· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`15· · · · · Q.· · So, that is what he, they were
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`16· ·talking about, is in 1991, cell tower, correct?
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`17· · · · · A.· · No, I think they are talking about a
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`18· ·communication system.· I think it is more than
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`19· ·just a tower.
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`20· · · · · Q.· · With respect to that portion of the
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`21· ·Pagliaroli reference that we have been
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`22· ·discussing, however, it only references a
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`23· ·transmitter, correct?
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`24· · · · · · · · They don't reference any of these
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`25· ·other portions that you have brought into
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`·1· ·Pagliaroli.
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`·2· · · · · A.· · And once again, what section was I
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`·3· ·reading?
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`·4· · · · · Q.· · The end of Column 5, beginning at
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`·5· ·approximately Line 66 to the top of Column 6,
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`·6· ·approximately to the end of, let's just call it
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`·7· ·Line 6.
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`·8· · · · · A.· · Well the term cell tower is not used
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`·9· ·in that.· It is mobile telephone transmitter.
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`10· · · · · · · · You are using the terminology cell
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`11· ·tower.
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`12· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's use the term
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`13· ·transmitter.
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`14· · · · · · · · Well, is the, in Pagliaroli is the
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`15· ·cell tower a transmitter, Mr. McNamara?
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`16· · · · · A.· · It can be.
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`17· · · · · Q.· · Isn't that what is disclosed in
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`18· ·Pagliaroli?
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`19· · · · · A.· · Well, I'm just saying that I would,
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`20· ·someone skilled in the art would say mobile
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`21· ·telephone transmitter, probably the cell tower,
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`22· ·or someone skilled in the art could say it, you
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`23· ·know, cell towers were very, transmitters were
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`24· ·very intelligent, it could be some control
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`25· ·apparatus.
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`·1· · · · · Q.· · When you say transmitters are very
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`·2· ·intelligent, are you using intelligence in the
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`·3· ·same manner that you have described for us
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`·4· ·previously?· That is that transmitters, for
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`·5· ·example, have security functionality?
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`·6· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`·7· · · · · Q.· · And they have knowledge of
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`·8· ·formatting?
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`·9· · · · · A.· · Protocol, yes.
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`10· · · · · Q.· · And they have knowledge of
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`11· ·operations such as billing?
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`12· · · · · A.· · Most likely not.
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`13· · · · · Q.· · And they have the ability to
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`14· ·transmit signals of their own volition, that is
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`15· ·act as a generating source?
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`16· · · · · A.· · Acting as a generating source.· They
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`17· ·are acting as a generating source.
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`18· · · · · Q.· · They are acting as a transmitting
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`19· ·sorry; is that correct?
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`20· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection, asked and
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`21· · · ·answered.
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`22· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Transmitting, yes.
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`23· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`24· · · · · Q.· · So, the intelligence that you are
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`25· ·inferring from this passage of Pagliaroli is, you
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`·1· ·understand based on this passage, or perhaps
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`·2· ·other passages that you can point us to that the
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`·3· ·Transmitter 46 can do what?· That is a sign of
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`·4· ·intelligence?
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`·5· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Same objection.
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`·6· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The fact that it can
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`·7· · · ·be disabled and recovered, and could be
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`·8· · · ·selectively enabled by transmitting an
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`·9· · · ·enabling code from the mobile telephone
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`10· · · ·transmitter.
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`11· · · · · · · · So, the transmitter has the
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`12· · · ·intelligence to determine it has an enabling
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`13· · · ·code.
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`14· · · · · · · · And, as part of the mobile
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`15· · · ·communication systems, it performs an
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`16· · · ·operation to send that enabling code.
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`17· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`18· · · · · Q.· · Do you believe that the transmitter
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`19· ·stores in memory the code that it is ultimately
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`20· ·transmitting to the vehicle?
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`21· · · · · A.· · It could remember that this code
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`22· ·goes with this car.
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`23· · · · · Q.· · And, where is that?· Where is that
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`24· ·memory that houses that set of information?
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`25· · · · · A.· · It could be in the transmitter; it
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`·1· ·could be by the transmitter, well it is part of
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`·2· ·the transmitter system.
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`·3· · · · · Q.· · Is it part of the transmitter
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`·4· ·itself?
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`·5· · · · · A.· · Transmitters, yes, if it is a
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`·6· ·transmitter system, yes.
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`·7· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And is that what Pagliaroli
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`·8· ·has said?
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`·9· · · · · A.· · Someone skilled in the art is
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`10· ·reading the whole paragraph and saying we are
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`11· ·talking about a system and something much more
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`12· ·than the cell tower.
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`13· · · · · · · · And, also reading in support of my
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`14· ·answer.
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`15· · · · · Q.· · Would you like to turn to something?
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`16· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`17· · · · · Q.· · Could we just make, just for the
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`18· ·clarity of the record if you want to turn
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`19· ·something would you just announce it?
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`20· · · · · A.· · Thank you.· Yes, the institutional
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`21· ·declaration.
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`22· · · · · Q.· · Your declaration in support of --
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`23· · · · · A.· · No, the PTAB's -- I'm trying to find
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`24· ·it here.
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`25· · · · · Q.· · Hold on.· Before you do that, the
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`·1· ·PTAB's decision on institution came after your
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`·2· ·declaration, correct?
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`·3· · · · · A.· · I know.
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`·4· · · · · Q.· · It cannot, therefore, support your
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`·5· ·declaration.
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`·6· · · · · A.· · It doesn't.· But it is asserting my
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`·7· ·opinion right now.
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`·8· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· But we are not talking, we
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`·9· ·are talking about a cross-examination in your
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`10· ·declaration, but, you can go ahead.· That is
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`11· ·fine.· I want to make sure that you have a full
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`12· ·opportunity to respond.
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`13· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`14· · · · · Q.· · Why don't you go ahead.
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`15· · · · · · · · (Whereupon, a discussion off the
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`16· ·record took place.)
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`17· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· My answer is the
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`18· · · ·support of my opinion that the memory can be
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`19· · · ·just about anywhere.· It can be at the
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`20· · · ·transmitter, answering your question, from
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`21· · · ·Exhibit 12, Page 9, this is from the, is it
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`22· · · ·the PTAB, yes.
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`23· · · · · · · · Reading in the middle of the page,
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`24· · · ·"A network environment or communication
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`25· · · ·system can include any number of network
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`·1· · · ·devices or communications equipment."
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`·2· · · · · · · · And that --
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`·3· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`·4· · · · · Q.· · Where are you?· I'm so sorry.
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`·5· · · · · A.· · Middle of Page 9 of Exhibit 12.
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`·6· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· But, this is a discussion by
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`·7· ·the PTAB with reference to whether control
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`·8· ·devices are distinct from communication systems?
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`·9· · · · · A.· · Yes.
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`10· · · · · Q.· · But this doesn't address whether in
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`11· ·Pagliaroli there is memory located at Element 46,
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`12· ·the transmitter.
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`13· · · · · A.· · It says that there is a common
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`14· ·understanding that someone skilled in the art,
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`15· ·that the memory can be just about anywhere and
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`16· ·that these devices and these communication
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`17· ·systems are, have control, memory, have
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`18· ·communications, aspects to them.
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`19· · · · · Q.· · I just did a search for the word
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`20· ·memory and it doesn't appear anywhere in the
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`21· ·institution decision.
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`22· · · · · · · · So, what you just said is not
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`23· ·actually in that document, is it Mr. McNamara?
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`24· · · · · · · · You just represented the PTAB said
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`25· ·that the memory could be anywhere.· Isn't that
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`·1· ·true that that statement is incorrect, entirely,
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`·2· ·Mr. McNamara?
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`·3· · · · · · · · The PTAB doesn't say that in its
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`·4· ·institution decision.
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`·5· · · · · A.· · I'm just saying that generally a
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`·6· ·network, it is my interpretation of what they
`
`·7· ·said.
`
`·8· · · · · Q.· · But it doesn't say that.· So, let's
`
`·9· ·make sure that we are using language accurately.
`
`10· · · · · A.· · But, does say, what I am going to
`
`11· ·say, the answer to my question, what it does say
`
`12· ·is that "A communication system network can
`
`13· ·include any number of devices or equipment
`
`14· ·including," and I read equipment as memory.
`
`15· · · · · Q.· · It does not say that Mr. McNamara.
`
`16· ·You need to read the language, if you are going
`
`17· ·to be suggesting that you are.
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· And objection, asked
`
`19· · · ·and answered.
`
`20· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`21· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· Let's -- I'm happy to move on.
`
`22· · · · · · · · But, I will insist that if you are
`
`23· ·quoting or purporting to quote from a document
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`24· ·that you do it accurately.
`
`25· · · · · · · · The quote is what it is, but I will
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`·1· ·read it into the record for clarity.
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`·2· · · · · · · · "A network environment or a
`
`·3· ·communication system could include any number of
`
`·4· ·network devices or communications equipment."
`
`·5· · · · · · · · Didn't I read that properly
`
`·6· ·Mr. McNamara?
`
`·7· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·8· · · · · Q.· · Did I read that properly?
`
`·9· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`10· · · · · Q.· · Thank you.
`
`11· · · · · A.· · Can I add to my comment?· I just
`
`12· ·want to restate that when I looked at
`
`13· ·communications equipment, I also read memory and
`
`14· ·any other kind of processing equipment.
`
`15· · · · · Q.· · Where -- you said you read that?
`
`16· ·I'm sorry, you read that?
`
`17· · · · · A.· · When I see the term, as someone
`
`18· ·skilled in the art, I see that as a general term.
`
`19· · · · · Q.· · The language is really important
`
`20· ·because all we have is a written record.· You did
`
`21· ·not read that.· What you did is that you
`
`22· ·interpreted it that way to include that, correct?
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`23· · · · · A.· · My opinion.
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`24· · · · · Q.· · That is fine.· But it does not read
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`25· ·that, correct?
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`·1· · · · · A.· · Disagree.
`
`·2· · · · · Q.· · It does not read that.· That
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`·3· ·language that you purported to be there is not
`
`·4· ·there, is it Mr. McNamara?
`
`·5· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection, asked and
`
`·6· · · ·answered.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`·8· · · · · Q.· · Is it?
`
`·9· · · · · A.· · Disagree.· I think it infers that.
`
`10· · · · · Q.· · Well, that is fine.
`
`11· · · · · A.· · As someone skilled in the art, once
`
`12· ·again, and I'm repeating myself, would see the
`
`13· ·communications equipment as a very general term
`
`14· ·including memory.
`
`15· · · · · Q.· · You are saying one of ordinary skill
`
`16· ·in the art today would read the interpretation,
`
`17· ·the institution decision and come up with the
`
`18· ·same conclusion that you did; is that correct?
`
`19· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`20· · · · · Q.· · Regarding a piece of art that isn't
`
`21· ·referenced in that particular portion that you
`
`22· ·identified that predates the decision by 25 years.
`
`23· · · · · A.· · That is not what I said.
`
`24· · · · · Q.· · That is effectively what you said.
`
`25· · · · · A.· · No.
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`·1· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection, asked and
`
`·2· · · ·answered.
`
`·3· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`·4· · · · · Q.· · With respect to -- it is true that
`
`·5· ·Transmitter 46 is not required in order to enable
`
`·6· ·the vehicle, correct?
`
`·7· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection,
`
`·8· · · ·mischaracterizes the prior testimony.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It is required as an
`
`10· · · ·element of the transmission of the enabling
`
`11· · · ·signal.
`
`12· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`13· · · · · Q.· · No, it is not.· If you look at the
`
`14· ·portion that you have been talking to us about it
`
`15· ·says that "The enabling code can be input
`
`16· ·directly into the Keypad 18."· Isn't that correct
`
`17· ·Mr. McNamara?· That is not required at all.
`
`18· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection.
`
`19· · · ·Mischaracterizes prior testimony.
`
`20· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· The signal, I'm
`
`21· · · ·reading from the first sentence after the
`
`22· · · ·automobile has been disabled and recovered,
`
`23· · · ·"The automobile can be selectively enabled by
`
`24· · · ·transmitting an enabling code from the mobile
`
`25· · · ·telephone."
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`·1· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
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`·2· · · · · Q.· · Why don't you continue reading
`
`·3· ·Mr. McNamara.
`
`·4· · · · · A.· · "The portable transmitter or
`
`·5· ·inputting the enabling code directly into the
`
`·6· ·keypad or input."· Or --
`
`·7· · · · · Q.· · That's correct.· My question was
`
`·8· ·whether Transmitter 46 was required, you
`
`·9· ·testified under oath that it was.
`
`10· · · · · · · · But as we proceed, we see that that
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`11· ·is, in fact, not the case; isn't that correct
`
`12· ·Mr. McNamara?
`
`13· · · · · A.· · We see it as or, either or.
`
`14· · · · · Q.· · That is that your testimony was
`
`15· ·incorrect.
`
`16· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection,
`
`17· · · ·mischaracterizes prior testimony.
`
`18· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`19· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`20· · · · · Q.· · If one inputs the enabling code
`
`21· ·directly into Keypad 18, is that enabling code at
`
`22· ·any point sent over Transmitter 46?
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`23· · · · · A.· · If the transmitter, mobile phone
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`24· ·transmitter is not used, yes, you could enter the
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`25· ·code through the keypad.
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`·1· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· So, it is true, then, that
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`·2· ·Transmitter 46 is not required?
`
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection, asked and
`
`·4· · · ·answered.
`
`·5· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`·6· · · · · Q.· · In order to input the enabling code?
`
`·7· · · · · A.· · What was your comment.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Just objection, asked
`
`·9· · · ·and answered.
`
`10· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I think I answered the
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`11· · · ·question in that it is an option that the
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`12· · · ·keypad can be used to input the code.
`
`13· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`14· · · · · Q.· · And not involve the transmitter,
`
`15· ·correct?
`
`16· · · · · A.· · In that case, specific case.
`
`17· · · · · Q.· · Sure.· Is it your understanding of
`
`18· ·Pagliaroli that the transmitter without any other
`
`19· ·input from the user can enable the vehicle?· And
`
`20· ·I'm speaking with particular reference to this
`
`21· ·passage that we have been talking about.
`
`22· · · · · A.· · This passage is talking about a
`
`23· ·situation where the automobile has been disabled
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`24· ·and recovered.
`
`25· · · · · Q.· · I understand that.
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`·1· · · · · A.· · Yes, and it is a particular case
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`·2· ·where you have the option of either sending a
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`·3· ·signal over the mobile tower or inputting the
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`·4· ·code.· But once again the mobile telephone tower
`
`·5· ·has the intelligence or transmitter system has
`
`·6· ·the intelligence to do that.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · And then you have the option of, of
`
`·8· ·course, the operator going to the vehicle and
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`·9· ·entering the code into the keypad.
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`10· · · · · Q.· · I understand.· The question I asked
`
`11· ·you is whether Transmitter 46 can send this
`
`12· ·enabling code without any input from the user?
`
`13· · · · · A.· · Oh, I didn't hear that part of the
`
`14· ·user.
`
`15· · · · · Q.· · Owner.
`
`16· · · · · A.· · The tower needs, yes, the tower
`
`17· ·needs the, or the communication system needs
`
`18· ·input from the user.
`
`19· · · · · Q.· · What input do you believe is needed?
`
`20· · · · · A.· · I think the abstract has a good
`
`21· ·summary.· "When the owner of an automobile finds
`
`22· ·the vehicle stolen, the owner dials the telephone
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`23· ·number corresponding to the disabling code of the
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`24· ·automobile.· The dialed number causes a signal
`
`25· ·code to be transmitted from the mobile telephone
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`·1· ·transmitted network, wherein the signal code is
`
`·2· ·received by the stolen automobile."
`
`·3· · · · · · · · So, that is describing the chain of
`
`·4· ·communications.
`
`·5· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And it is your understanding
`
`·6· ·that that is the chain of communications that is
`
`·7· ·occurring within the passage that you have been
`
`·8· ·discussing with us at the bottom of Column 5 to
`
`·9· ·the top of Column 6?
`
`10· · · · · · · · Do you still have my question in
`
`11· ·mind Mr. McNamara?
`
`12· · · · · A.· · Sure do.
`
`13· · · · · Q.· · I usually ask that if there is a
`
`14· ·long pause.
`
`15· · · · · A.· · Yes, I would, you know, that is the
`
`16· ·chain of communications in view.
`
`17· · · · · Q.· · Do you understand that the enabling
`
`18· ·code, the operation of the enabling code to be
`
`19· ·any different than the operation of the disabling
`
`20· ·code?
`
`21· · · · · A.· · There is a distinction in that
`
`22· ·reading from Column 2.
`
`23· · · · · · · · Once the -- reading from Column 2,
`
`24· ·48, 47, Line 47.· "Once the owner of the
`
`25· ·automobile discovers that the automobile has been
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`·1· ·stolen, the operator dials a predetermined number
`
`·2· ·corresponding to the receiver.
`
`·3· · · · · · · · "The number is then transmitted from
`
`·4· ·the signal towers of the mobile network in use.
`
`·5· ·The receiver receives it and transmits it to the
`
`·6· ·disabling code, and the enabling code stored in
`
`·7· ·the receiver" -- okay.
`
`·8· · · · · Q.· · How does that help?
`
`·9· · · · · A.· · Yes, that is the same process.
`
`10· · · · · Q.· · Okay, yes.· And the receiver that is
`
`11· ·referenced in the passage that you have just
`
`12· ·read, where is that receiver located?
`
`13· ·Specifically that portion at 52 through 53, 54,
`
`14· ·excuse me, reading, "The receiver receives a
`
`15· ·transmitted signal and compares it to a disabling
`
`16· ·code and an enabling code stored within the
`
`17· ·receiver."
`
`18· · · · · · · · Where is that receiver located?
`
`19· · · · · A.· · As shown in Figure 1 of Exhibit 11,
`
`20· ·it is, Item 14, the receiver in the car.
`
`21· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· So it is at the vehicle?
`
`22· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`23· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· So, the receiver at the
`
`24· ·vehicle receives a signal that is transmitted
`
`25· ·from the user's phone.
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`·1· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·2· · · · · Q.· · And after it receives that signal,
`
`·3· ·it has the intelligence to receive and compare
`
`·4· ·the codes that it has received, correct?
`
`·5· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·6· · · · · Q.· · Just so I am understanding, so the
`
`·7· ·roles of the components in the system and I'm not
`
`·8· ·an expert on this as you can tell, so I
`
`·9· ·appreciate your taking the time to help me out.
`
`10· · · · · · · · The signal code is Signal Code 40,
`
`11· ·is that -- and I'm -- by, the reference I'm still
`
`12· ·in Column 5.· But you should feel free to look at
`
`13· ·the other elements that are called out in the
`
`14· ·figures.
`
`15· · · · · · · · For example, I see a 40, I don't
`
`16· ·know if that refreshes your recollection.
`
`17· · · · · · · · You can also look at, anywhere you
`
`18· ·like, but where I am looking is at Column 5 where
`
`19· ·it describes Signal Code 40.
`
`20· · · · · A.· · And your question is?
`
`21· · · · · Q.· · What is Element 40.
`
`22· · · · · A.· · I think a good explanation of 40 is
`
`23· ·Exhibit 11 reading --
`
`24· · · · · Q.· · The Pagliaroli patent?
`
`25· · · · · A.· · Yes, thank you.· Reading Line 54.
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`·1· · · · · Q.· · Of what column?
`
`·2· · · · · A.· · Oh, excuse me.· Four.· Column 4,
`
`·3· ·Line 53, starting "The receiver can receive a
`
`·4· ·Signal Code 40 from two sources.· First a Signal
`
`·5· ·Code 40 may come from a mobile telephone Signal
`
`·6· ·Transmitter, 46, in the area of the automobile.
`
`·7· ·Such mobile telephone signal trans -- 46, are no
`
`·8· ·commonplace," I won't read the rest of it.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · Part of, it states, "Cellular
`
`10· ·networks that transmit signals across thousands
`
`11· ·of square miles and may encompass several
`
`12· ·states."· Okay.
`
`13· · · · · · · · And the Signal Code 40 can also --
`
`14· ·yes, that is my answer, yes.
`
`15· · · · · Q.· · Well, okay.· You didn't read the
`
`16· ·passage correctly, did you?· It is not from two
`
`17· ·sources, it is from one of two sources, correct?
`
`18· · · · · A.· · Yes.· That's correct?· From one of
`
`19· ·two.
`
`20· · · · · Q.· · And one source is from the -- the
`
`21· ·signal code may come from the mobile telephone
`
`22· ·transmitter 46 and then they describe that,
`
`23· ·correct?
`
`24· · · · · A.· · Yes.· And from a Short Range
`
`25· ·Portable Transmitter 50.
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`·1· · · · · Q.· · That is the second part of it?
`
`·2· · · · · A.· · Thank you.· I was looking for that.
`
`·3· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· And that was at Column 5,
`
`·4· ·beginning at approximately Line 15?
`
`·5· · · · · A.· · Yes.
`
`·6· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· One of the dangers of reading
`
`·7· ·things like abstracts and even summaries of the
`
`·8· ·inventions is sometimes they say things that
`
`·9· ·don't appear to be accurate.
`
`10· · · · · · · · The summary of invention that we
`
`11· ·were reading previously at Column 2 suggests that
`
`12· ·the comparison and the intelligence that is used
`
`13· ·by the Pagliaroli system is in a receiver.· In
`
`14· ·fact it says, "The receiver receives the
`
`15· ·transmitted signal and compares it to a disabling
`
`16· ·code and an enabling code stored within the
`
`17· ·receiver."
`
`18· · · · · · · · That is not actually correct, is it?
`
`19· ·I mean, that is not the Pagliaroli system, is it?
`
`20· · · · · · · · MR. O'REILLY:· Objection, form.
`
`21· · · · · · · · THE WITNESS:· It is disclosed that
`
`22· · · ·way.
`
`23· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`24· · · · · Q.· · It is disclosed in the patent that
`
`25· ·way?
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`·1· · · · · A.· · In one of the ways it is disclosed.
`
`·2· · · · · Q.· · Okay.· Anything, well, let me just
`
`·3· ·draw your attention to what I am looking at.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · Isn't it true that the comparison
`
`·5· ·that we have discussed with respect to the code
`
`·6· ·that is received and the code that is used is
`
`·7· ·actually done in Control Unit 16 and not in
`
`·8· ·Receiver 14.
`
`·9· · · · · A.· · It could be done both ways.· It is,
`
`10· ·someone skilled in the art would say, do I tell
`
`11· ·the control unit that I have the right signal --
`
`12· ·rephrase that a little bit better.
`
`13· · · · · · · · That we have the right car and you
`
`14· ·need to take an action; it could be just enabling
`
`15· ·the control unit, the receiver could send the
`
`16· ·data to the control unit, let the control unit
`
`17· ·make that decision.
`
`18· · · · · · · · There could be different ways of
`
`19· ·doing that.
`
`20· · · · · Q.· · Other than the single reference that
`
`21· ·we, or the single quote that we just discussed in
`
`22· ·Column 2, are you aware of any other portion of
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`23· ·the Pagliaroli patent that describes the
`
`24· ·transmit, or the Receiver 14 as anything other
`
`25· ·than a simple dumb receiver?
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`·1· · · · · A.· · Looking at Exhibit 11.· Reading
`
`·2· ·Column 5, with the, I guess comment that, you
`
`·3· ·know, the receivers are not dumb.· They are very
`
`·4· ·complex in the sense they have to deal with
`
`·5· ·different protocols and as described here they
`
`·6· ·can also have additional functions.
`
`·7· · · · · · · · "If the Receiver 14 were embodied in
`
`·8· ·an actual mobile telephone unit, the Signal Code
`
`·9· ·40 may encompass the actual phone number of the
`
`10· ·mobile telephone plus an additional signal code
`
`11· ·that distinguishes an automobile disabling code
`
`12· ·from a common mobile telephone incoming signal."
`
`13· · · · · Q.· · Where are you reading from?· I'm
`
`14· ·sorry.
`
`15· · · · · A.· · I'm reading Column 5, Line 7.
`
`16· · · · · Q.· · On line, Column 5, Line 7?· Oh,
`
`17· ·there it is, okay.
`
`18· · · · · · · · So, you are saying that if the
`
`19· ·Receiver 14 were a part of the mobile telephone
`
`20· ·unit, then this code could encompass additional
`
`21· ·information and, therefore, you are inferring
`
`22· ·that Receiver 14 does something more than simply
`
`23· ·receive?
`
`24· · · · · A.· · Exactly.· One of its functions.
`
`25· · · · · · · · Do you mind if I take a break?
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`·1· · · · · · · · (Recess taken -- 9:52 a.m.)
`
`·2· · · · · · · · (After recess -- 9:55 a.m.)
`
`·3· ·BY MR. RITCHESON:
`
`·4· · · · · Q.· · With respect to the comparison of
`
`·5· ·codes that we have been talking about, there is a
`
`·6· ·passage that assigns that responsibility to the
`
`·7· ·control unit, 16, though, correct?
`
`·8· · · · · A.· · Can you show me that passage?
`
`·9· · · · · Q.· · Sure.· It is Column 5, Lines 44
`
`10· ·through 50 -- no, 44 through 47.
`
`11· · · · · A.· · Is it "The control unit recalls
`
`12
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