Transcript of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`
`Date: March 2, 2016
`
`Case: Pharmacosmos A/S -v- Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (PTAB)
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`Planet Depos, LLC
`Phone: 888-433-3767
`Fax: 888-503-3767
`Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`Internet: www.planetdepos.com
`
`Worldwide Court Reporting | Interpretation | Trial Services
`
`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 1
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Date: March 2, 2016
`
`Case: Pharmacosmos A/S -v- Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (PTAB)
`
`Planet Depos, LLC
`Phone: 888-433-3767
`Fax: 888-503-3767
`Email: transcripts@planetdepos.com
`Internet: www.planetdepos.com
`
`Worldwide Court Reporting | Interpretation | Trial Services
`
`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 1
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`08:47:34
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`1
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
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`PHARMACOSMOS A/S, :
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` Petitioner, :
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` v. : Case IPR2015-01490
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`LUITPOLD : (Patent 7,754,702 B2)
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`PHARMACEUTICALS, INC., : Case IPR2015-01493
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` Patent Owner. (Patent 8,431,549 B2)
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` - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
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` DEPOSITION OF ROBERT LINHARDT, PH.D.
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` NEW YORK, NEW YORK
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` Wednesday, MARCH 2, 2016
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` 8:58 a.m.
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` Job No.: 105663
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` Pages: 1 - 156
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` Reported By: Nancy Mahoney, RPR/CCR/CLR
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 2
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` Deposition of ROBERT LINHARDT, PH.D., held at
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`2
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` the offices of:
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` BAKER BOTTS LLP
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` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
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` New York, New York 10112-4498
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` 212.408.2674
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` Pursuant to agreement, before Nancy Mahoney,
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` CCR/RPR/CLR, Notary Public in and for the State of
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` New York.
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 3
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER PHARMACOSMOS:
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` JENNIFER C. TEMPESTA, ESQUIRE
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` jennifer.tempesta@bakerbotts.com
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` CAROLYN PIRRAGLIA, PH.D., ESQUIRE
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` carolyn.pirraglia@bakerbotts.com
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` BAKER BOTTS LLP
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` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
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` New York, New York 10112-4498
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` 212.408.267
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` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER LUITPOLD
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` PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.:
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` MICHAEL D. KAMINSKI, ESQUIRE
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` mkaminsky@foley.com
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` ASHA NADIPURAM, PH.D., ESQUIRE
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` anadipuram@foley.com
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` NATASHA IYER, ESQUIRE
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` niyer@foley.com
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` FOLEY & LARDNER LLP
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` 3000 K Street, N.W.
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` Washington, DC 20007-5109
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` 202.672.5490
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 4
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S C O N T I N U E D
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`4
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` ALSO PRESENT:
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` Arthur Mann
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` Toshiaki Yaguchi, Ph.D.
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` Daiichi Sankyo, Inc.
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` John Szpara, Videographer
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 5
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` C O N T E N T S
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`EXAMINATION OF ROBERT LINHARDT, PH.D. PAGE
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`By Mr. Kaminski 10
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`5
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` E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to transcript.)
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` LINHARDT PAGE
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` Exhibit 2023 Dextran and Related 29
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` Polysaccharides from
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` Sigma-Aldrich
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` Exhibit 2024 Nomenclature of 58
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` Carbohydrates,
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` Recommendations 1996
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` Exhibit 2025 Annual Meeting of the 65
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` ACS Committee on
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` Nomenclature, Terminology
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` And Symbols
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` Exhibit 2026 Tandem MS can Distinguish 118
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` Haluronic Acid from
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` N-Acetylheparosan
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 6
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
`6
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` E X H I B I T S C O N T I N U E D
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` (Attached to transcript.)
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` LINHARDT PAGE
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` Exhibit 2027 Production and Chemical 119
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` Processing of Low Molecular
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` Weight Heparins
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBIT
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` PAGE
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` Exhibit 1005 (Previously marked.) 10
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` Declaration of Robert
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` Linhardt, Patent
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` 7,754,702
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` Exhibit 1014 (Previously marked.) 10
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` Declaration of Robert
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` Linhardt, Patent
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` 8,431,549
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` Exhibit 1009 (Previously marked.) 36
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` U.S. Patent Office
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` 3,100,202
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` Exhibit 1001 (Previously marked.) 53
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` U.S. Patent 8,431,549
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 7
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS CONTINUED PAGE
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`7
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` Exhibit 1004 (Previously marked.) 78
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` Nephron Original Paper
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` Exhibit 1003 (Previously marked.) 102
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` U.S. Patent Application
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` 2003/0232084
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` Exhibit 1044 (Previously marked.) 115
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` Morningside Translator
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` Certification
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` Exhibit 1035 (Previously marked.) 129
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` Physico-chemical
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` properties of the new
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` generation IV iron
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` preparations ferumoxytol,
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` iron isomaltoside 1000
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` and ferric carboxymaltose
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 8
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS CONTINUED PAGE
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` Exhibit 1047 (Previously marked.) 135
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`8
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` Physical and Chemical
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` Characterization of
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` Therapeutic Iron Containing
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` Materials: A Study of
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` Several Superparamagnetic
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` Drug Formulations with
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` The B-FeOOH or Ferrihydrite
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` Structure
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` Exhibit 1002 (Previously marked.) 149
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` U.S. Patent 5,541,158
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 9
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`9
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now going on the
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` video record. This is the deposition of Dr. Robert
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` J. Linhardt in the matter of Pharmacosmos A/S versus
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` Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc. filed in the United
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` States Patent and Trademark Office, Case No.
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` 2015-01490 and 2015-0149.
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` Today is March 2nd, 2016; the time on the
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` video monitor is 8:58 a.m. My name is John D.
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` Szpara, I'm your certified legal videographer. I'm
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` here representing Planet Depos, Maryland. This
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` deposition is being held at Baker Botts, 30
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` Rockefeller Plaza, Suite 4340, New York, New York.
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` The court reporter is Nancy Mahoney representing
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` Planet Depo.
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` Will counsel please identify themselves and
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` who they represent for the record, please.
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` MR. KAMINSKI: My name is Mike Kaminski.
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` I'm going to be taking the deposition. With me also
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` is Asha Nadipuram and Natasha Iyer also with Foley &
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` Lardner. Also we have from Daiichi Sankyo we have
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` two representatives; one is Arthur Mann and the other
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 10
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` one is Toshiaki Yaguchi.
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` MS. TEMPESTA: I'm Jennifer Tempesta with
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` Baker Botts on behalf of Pharmacosmos and the
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` witness. With me here is today Carolyn Pirraglia
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` also of Baker Botts.
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`10
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter will
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`08:59:24
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` swear in the witness, please.
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` ROBERT LINHARDT, PH.D.,
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`08:59:26
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`08:59:26
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` after having been first duly sworn or affirmed to
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` testify to the truth, was examined and
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` testified as follows:
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` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR LUITPOLD MICHAEL
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` KAMINSKI:
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` Q Dr. Linhardt, I'd like to show you copies
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` of two declarations that you signed in this -- in
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` this matter. One is against the '702 patent and one
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` is against the '549 patent.
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`08:59:40
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`08:59:43
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`08:59:49
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`08:59:53
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` (PREVIOUSLY MARKED Deposition Exhibit 1005
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` marked for identification and was attached to the
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` transcript.)
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` (PREVIOUSLY MARKED Deposition Exhibit 1014
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` marked for identification and was attached to the
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 11
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` transcript.)
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` Do you have them in front of you?
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` A Yes, I do.
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`11
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`08:59:57
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`08:59:57
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`08:59:59
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` Q Before you signed these two declarations,
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`08:59:59
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` did you read them carefully?
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` A Yes, I did.
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`09:00:02
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`09:00:04
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` Q Sitting here today, are you aware of any
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`09:00:05
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` changes you want to make to either of these two
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` declarations?
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` A Yes, I am.
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`09:00:09
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`09:00:13
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`09:00:13
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` Q Okay. And what would you like to change?
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`09:00:14
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` A In the '549 declaration --
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`09:00:17
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` Q Okay.
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` A -- on Page 6, line 6, I found a
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` typographical error.
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`09:00:22
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`09:00:26
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` Q If you could identify that so that we're
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`09:00:32
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` clear.
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` A I would like to change dextrin,
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` d-e-x-t-r-i-n, T1 to dextran, d-e-x-t-r-a-n, T1.
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` Q Okay. Anything else?
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` A No.
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` Q So it seems like you read this again
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 12
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`12
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` carefully before coming today?
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` A Yes, I did.
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` Q Are there any additions -- are there any
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` other mistakes that you saw in either declaration?
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` A Not -- not that I can see at this time.
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` Q Okay. Are there any additions you want to
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` make to the opinions that you've provided in these
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` two declarations?
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` A No.
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` Q Are there any things you want to remove
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` from either of these?
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` A No.
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` Q I'd like to show you lists that you have in
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` both of your declarations. Let's take a look at the
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` one starting -- for the '549 starting on Page 2, 3
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` and 4. Do you see the lists -- lists that --
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` A List of exhibits, yes.
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` Q -- lists of documents that you've
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` considered in formulating your opinion?
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` A I see them on Page 2 and 3, not on Page 4.
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` Q Are there any things you want to change
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` about this list?
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 13
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
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`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` A Not that I can see.
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` Q Is there anything you want to add to this
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`13
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` list?
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` A Not that I could think of.
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` Q Is there anything else that you considered
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` in formulating the opinions in this that -- that you
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` are relying on?
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` A These exhibits were the things that I
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` primarily relied on in forming my opinion.
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` Q Okay. What else did you rely on -- what do
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` you mean by primarily as opposed to not primarily?
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` A So -- so I also have some skill as an
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` expert in this area, so I relied on my understanding
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` of science.
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` Q Okay. But with respect to technical
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` literature, do you consider this list on Pages 2 and
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` 3 of your declaration for the '549 to be as complete
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` as you are sitting here today?
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` A I have read other things. Obviously this
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` list that I'm looking at right now is not identical
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` to the list in the '702 patent, and probably not in
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` the other declaration that's not being considered
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 14
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` today. So I did have other reading materials that
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` are not listed on this list in the '549 patent on
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` Page 2 and 3.
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`14
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`09:03:17
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`09:03:26
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` Q Okay. So for the '549 patent this list is
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`09:03:26
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` the most relevant that you're aware of?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And I'd like to ask you just the same
`
` questions then for the other one, the '702, and I'd
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` like to ask you if you could please take a look at
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` the list that's on -- also on Pages 2 and 3.
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` A Okay.
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`09:03:29
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` Q Is there anything else that you considered
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`09:03:46
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` in formulating your opinion, other than what you've
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` already mentioned, plus the things on this list?
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` A No, there's not.
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` Q Is -- is this the most relevant documents
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` for this particular declaration?
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` A I believe it is.
`
` Q Okay. Now, you hold a bachelor's in
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` chemistry. Is that correct?
`
` A Yes, I do.
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` Q You hold a bachelor's in -- a master's of
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 15
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`15
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` arts in chemistry?
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` A Yes, I do.
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` Q And you have a Ph.D. in chemistry?
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` A Yes, I do.
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` Q Now, your Ph.D. thesis was on the mechanism
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` of diacyl peroxide decomposition, correct?
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` A Correct.
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` Q Does that somehow relate to the field of
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` Heparin activities?
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` A No, it does not.
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` Q What does it relate to?
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` A It relates to fundamental physical organic
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` chemistry.
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` Q Okay. What kind of iron carbohydrate
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` complex experiences have you had in your professional
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` career?
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` A I have not published any papers that I know
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` of in the area of iron carbohydrate chemistry.
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` Q Have you gotten any research grants on iron
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` carbohydrate chemistry?
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` A I have not received any research grants
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` that I can recall in this area.
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 16
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` Q Have you counseled any graduate students on
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` research regarding iron carbohydrate complexes?
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`16
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q And when was that?
`
` A I have some work ongoing in my laboratory
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` on magnetic nanoparticles and their complex with
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` Heparin, which is a polysaccharide, a carbohydrate.
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` Q Okay. And when did this research start,
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` this nanoparticle research?
`
` A This has been going on for several years.
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` Q Can you -- since 2011, 2012, if you
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` could -- even a guess would be okay, just your best
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` guess.
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` A My best guess would be three to four years.
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` Q Have you taught any classes on iron
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` carbohydrate complexes?
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` A There's a very specific title for a class,
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` so I have not taught any classes with a title iron
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` carbohydrate complexes.
`
` Q Now, your post-doctorate work was in
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` Heparin, correct?
`
` A I did post-doctoral work in Heparin, yes,
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 17
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`17
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` but that was not its entirety.
`
` Q Okay. And your work right now in Heparin
`
` seems to be very well known, so congratulations.
`
` A Thank you.
`
` Q I've -- I noticed about a -- something
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` called a Heparin crisis in 2007, 2008. Can you
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` briefly summarize what that is.
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` A Yes. In 2007 the Heparin supply coming
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` from China was adulterated. There was a contaminant
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` introduced in the product that resulted in severe
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` reactions, including anaphylactoid-type reactions in
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` hundreds of American patients. The crisis suggested
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` to have resulted in one hundred to two hundred
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` deaths. That was a crisis in 2007, 2008.
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` Q Since 2007, 2008, what percentage of your
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` time has been -- your professional time has been
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` related to Heparin?
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` A Since 2007, 2008 I would say probably
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` three-quarters of my professional time has been
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` related -- my research professional time has been
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` related to Heparin.
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`09:07:52
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` Q And how about before 2007, 2008, let's say
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`09:07:54
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 18
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` between the early 2000s?
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` A Probably this -- roughly the same amount,
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` about three-quarters.
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` Q Can we -- I'd like to ask you about your
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` experience in patents. What -- do you have any
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` patents on your own?
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` A Yes, I do.
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` Q Do you remember approximately how many?
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` A I know how many I've applied for. I don't
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`09:08:21
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` know how many have been issued. I don't know how
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` many are still maintained.
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` Q How many have you applied for?
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` A Probably over 50 patents.
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` Q Okay. When you're preparing the
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` applications for filing, do you ever interact with
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` patent attorneys?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Do you consider yourself knowledgeable
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` about patent -- the patent process, at least from --
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` from a layperson's point of view?
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` MS. TEMPESTA: Objection, form.
`
` A I certainly have interacted with patent
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 19
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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` attorneys, but I depend on their expertise to draft
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` the patent.
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`19
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` Q And what about expert witnessing, have you
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`09:09:04
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` ever been an expert witness in any other legal
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` proceeding?
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q Can you just generally describe your
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` experiences.
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` A In the Heparin crisis case I was an expert
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` witness and I -- in the case for Baxter, Baxter was
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` the manufacturer that was being sued by patients who
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` were hurt or damaged by the contaminated Heparin.
`
` Q So this was a products liability --
`
` A Yes, it was.
`
` Q -- issue? Have you ever had any patent
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` litigation experience or patent --
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q -- experting experience? Can -- can you
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` describe those.
`
` A Yes, one example was in the case of Teva
`
` and Momenta.
`
` Q And which side did you represent?
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 20
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
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`20
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` A I represented Teva.
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` Q Any other one?
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` A In -- in --
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` Q In patent litigation.
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` A In patent litigation that's ongoing
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` currently or that, you know --
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` Q Well, I don't want you to say anything
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` that's confidential, but all -- I -- all I'm trying
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` to do is ask your experiences, past experiences, if
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` you could tell me besides Teva versus Momenta and
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` then if you could say, yeah, I'm also working with
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` somebody else now on an ongoing litigation, I mean,
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` that's fine. I'm just trying to understand.
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` A Right, so I am also working with somebody
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` else now on an ongoing litigation.
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` Q Okay. And then -- but in the past it was
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` only the Teva case?
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` A I think that's true, but I might have -- I
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` know I didn't give a declaration, another declaration
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` or deposition. I probably would have remembered
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` that.
`
` Q And the ongoing one that you're involved in
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 21
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
`21
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` is different than -- than this action?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. And are there any other products
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` liability cases that you were involved with besides
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` the one that you mentioned about Baxter?
`
` A I don't believe so.
`
` Q Do you consider yourself an expert in
`
` immunology?
`
` A I have some expertise in immunology, but I
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` would not consider myself an expert immunologist.
`
` Q And what I mean by -- by immunology is how
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` the immune system reacts to the carbohydrate, that's
`
` my definition.
`
` A I would consider that I have some expertise
`
` in immunology, particularly how the immune system
`
` reacts with carbohydrates.
`
` Q But you do not consider yourself an expert,
`
` correct?
`
` A I do not consider myself an expert
`
` immunologist. I do have some expertise in that area.
`
` Q Got it, okay. I'd like to ask you then to
`
` take a look, if you could, please, at your
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 22
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
`22
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` declaration against the '549 patent. The other one
`
` you can put aside because we'll be spending most of
`
` our time with the '549. And I'd like to ask you to
`
` take a look at Paragraph No. 6.
`
` And in this paragraph -- and in this
`
` Paragraph 6 you say, "In my opinion, a POSITA" --
`
` P-O-S-I-T-A -- "would hold at least a bachelor's
`
` level degree in chemistry or biochemistry with some
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` related post-graduate experience (academic or
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` industrial) in the area of carbohydrates and their
`
` metal complexes."
`
` Did I read that correctly?
`
` A That's correct.
`
` Q Now, POSITA means, to your understanding,
`
` person of ordinary skill in the art, correct?
`
` A That's my understanding of the term POSITA.
`
` Q And POSITA is a patent term, correct?
`
` A I think so, or a legal term.
`
` Q But it's not a scientific term?
`
` A It's not scientific term.
`
` Q It's not a term that you would use in the
`
` laboratory, basically?
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`PLANET DEPOS
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`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
` A Probably not.
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`23
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` Q Well, I want to ask you about this -- this
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`09:13:47
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` statement a little bit. You say -- you refer to some
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`09:13:49
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` related post-graduate experience. What do you mean
`
` by some?
`
` A Well, some is more than none.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A And -- so it could be a year or two or
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` three working in an academic or industrial
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` environment.
`
` Q So what's -- what is your opinion then
`
` about what you meant by -- by this statement about
`
` the minimum? Is one year a minimum to you or how
`
` much? I'm trying to understand.
`
` A So it depends on the -- the area and the
`
` depth of the experience.
`
` Q Okay. So there's -- is there any way to
`
` quantify what you mean by some, it just depends?
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`09:13:54
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` A Well, there would be a difference if, say,
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`09:14:48
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` the industrial experience was directly related to
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` making iron carbohydrate complexes. That -- in that
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` case it might take less time to develop that
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`09:14:52
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`09:14:57
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`09:15:05
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 24
`
`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
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`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
`24
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` experience of POSITA than if the experience was in
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` another area that was not this closely related to the
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` scope of the '549 patent.
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` Q Is there any other thing you want to add as
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` to what you mean by some related experience?
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` A Some is -- is more than none and it could
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` be, you know, multiple years, it could be multiple
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` years in industry or multiple years in academic
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` experience.
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` Q Okay. One -- one thing that -- that I
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` wanted to ask you about is there doesn't seem to be
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` any upper limit here about what one of ordinary skill
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` in the art is. So it would seem to include somebody
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` with some experience and -- and a degree, but also up
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` to a Nobel Prize professor, and I don't know if -- if
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` there's in your mind any cutoff between a person of
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` ordinary skill in the art and one of more than
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` ordinary skill in the art?
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` A Okay, well, let's take a Nobel Prize
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` winner, for example. So if a Nobel Prize winner had
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` bachelor's level degree in chemistry and won the
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` Nobel Prize in quantum mechanics but has no
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`PLANET DEPOS
`888.433.3767 | WWW.PLANETDEPOS.COM
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`Luitpold Pharmaceuticals, Inc., Ex. 2056, P. 25
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`Pharmacosmos A/S v. Luitpold Ex. Pharmaceuticals, Inc., IPR2015-01490
`
`
`
`Videotaped Deposition of Robert Linhardt, Ph.D.
`Conducted on March 2, 2016
`
`25
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` experience in the realm of carbohydrates or iron or
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` even the performance of laboratory experiments, I
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` would say that that wouldn't count as additional
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` experience making this person a POSA.
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` Q Okay. So what you're saying is that it
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` really depends on the individual person, their
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` qualific
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