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`Page 1
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` 1
` 2 UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` 3 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` 4 Case No. IPR2014-00220
` 5 Patent 7,859,565
` 6 -----------------------------------------x
` VALEO, INC.,
` 7
` Petitioner,
` 8
` v.
` 9
` MAGNA ELECTRONICS, INC.,
`10
` Patent Owner.
`11 -----------------------------------------x
` December 18, 2014
`12 2:14 p.m.
`13 DEPOSITION of a non-party
` witness, GERARD P. GRENIER, taken by the
`14 Parties Present, pursuant to Notice and
` Subpoena, held at the offices of Dorsey &
`15 Whitney, LLP, 51 West 52nd Street, New
` York, New York, before Abner D. Berzon, a
`16 Registered Professional Reporter,
` Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary
`17 Public of the State of New York.
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22 Veritext Legal Solutions
` Mid-Atlantic Region
` 1250 Eye Street NW - Suite 1201
`23 Washington, D.C. 20005
`
`24
`25
`
`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`VALEO EX. 1022-001
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`1 GRENIER
`2 make sure that we can agree on a few
`3 things. Can we agree that if you don't
`4 hear a question, that you'll let me know
`5 so that I can repeat the question?
`6 A. Yes.
`7 Q. And can we also agree that if
`8 you don't understand one of my questions,
`9 that you'll let me know that so that I can
`10 rephrase the question.
`11 A. Yes.
`12 Q. Can we also agree that, if you
`13 don't know the answer to a question, that
`14 you will not speculate?
`15 A. Yes.
`16 Q. And you understand that it's
`17 okay not to know the answer to a question?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. And if you don't know the answer
`20 to a question, you'll simply tell me "I
`21 don't know the answer to that question"?
`22 MS. BAKSH: Objection. You
`23 know, what --
`24 MS. TERRY: Object.
`25 MS. BAKSH: -- whatever the
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
`1 2
`
`3 4
`
` Via Telephone:
`5 STERNE, KESSLER,
` GOLDSTEIN & FOX P.L.L.C.
`6 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Suite 600
`7 Washington, D.C., 20005
` Attorneys for Petitioners
`
`8
`
` BY: DAVID K.S. CORNWELL, ESQ.
`9 davidc@skgf.com
` SALVADOR M. BEZOS ESQ.
`10 salb@skgf.com
`11
`12 Via telephone:
`13 OSHA LIANG LLP
` Two Houston Center
`14 909 Fannin, Suite 3500
` Houston, Texas 77010
`15 Attorneys for Patent Owner
`16 BY: TAMMY TERRY, ESQ.
` terry@oshaliang.com
`
`17
`18
`19 DORSEY & WHITNEY, LLP
` 51 West 52nd Street, 8th Floor
`20 New York, New York 10019-6119
` Attorneys for Witness
`
`21
`
` BY: Elizabeth R. BAKSH, ESQ.
`22 baksh.elizabeth@dorsey.com
`23
`24
`25
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`Page 3
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`Page 5
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`1 GRENIER
`2 witness will testify pertaining to the
`3 question, I mean you can't direct him to
`4 answer a question a specific way.
`5 MR. CORNWELL: Okay.
`6 Q. Can you agree that during the
`7 course of this deposition, if you realize
`8 that one of your previous answers is
`9 incorrect, that you will let me know so
`10 that I can give you a chance to correct an
`11 answer?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. Is there any reason that you
`14 would not be able to be truthful today?
`15 A. No.
`16 Q. For example, you're not taking
`17 any medications that might impair your
`18 cognitive functions?
`19 A. No.
`20 Q. I understand that you're
`21 represented by counsel today; is that
`22 correct?
`23 A. Yes.
`24 Q. Who's in the room with you right
`25 now, other than your counsel and the court
`
`12
`
` G E R A R D P . G R E N I E R ,
`3 having first been duly sworn by Abner D.
`4 Berzon, a Notary Public of the State of
`5 New York, was examined and testified as
`6 follows:
`7 EXAMINATION BY MR. CORNWELL:
`8 Q. Good afternoon. Is it
`9 Dr. Grenier or Mr. Grenier?
`10 A. Mr. Grenier.
`11 Q. Good afternoon. Thank you for
`12 doing this deposition. We appreciate it
`13 very much. For the record, could you
`14 please state your name and address.
`15 A. Yes. My name is Gerard
`16 Grenier. My personal address is 188
`17 Springfield Avenue, Rutherford, New Jersey
`18 07070.
`19 Q. And you understand that you're
`20 under oath?
`21 A. Yes, I do.
`22 Q. And that you have to tell the
`23 truth today?
`24 A. Yes, I do.
`25 Q. Before we get started, I want to
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`1 GRENIER
`2 reporter?
`3 A. No one.
`4 Q. Without disclosing any
`5 conversations that you had with your
`6 lawyer, can you tell me what you did to
`7 prepare for today's designation?
`8 A. Yes. I went into IEEE's digital
`9 library systems, I requested a search for
`10 the documents that were noted in the
`11 request, I retrieved those documents, and
`12 along with the abstract that relates to
`13 those documents.
`14 Q. Now, are you aware that you're
`15 being deposed today as a fact witness in a
`16 dispute between Valeo and Magna
`17 Electronics?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. And in relationship with this
`20 dispute, you signed a number of
`21 declarations already; isn't that correct?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. Do you recall how many
`24 declarations you signed?
`25 A. I signed eight declarations.
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 digital library; is that correct?
`3 A. Yes.
`4 MR. CORNWELL: I'd like the
`5 court reporter to hand the witness a
`6 document that's been marked Grenier
`7 Exhibit 1.
`8 (Grenier Exhibit 1, declaration
`9 of Gerard P. Grenier signed June 30, 2014,
`10 marked for identification, this date.)
`11 Q. Mr. Grenier, do you see what's
`12 been marked as Grenier Exhibit 1?
`13 A. Yes, I do.
`14 Q. And can you identify that
`15 document so the record is clear.
`16 A. Yes. The document is -- the top
`17 page is a declaration, my declaration,
`18 and, and then the exhibit follows. The
`19 exhibit is an article titled,
`20 "Multi-Resolution Vehicle Detection Using
`21 Artificial Vision". In fact, that third
`22 page of the exhibit is what we refer to in
`23 the business as an article abstract, and
`24 then beginning on the fourth page is the
`25 actual article as printed from the IEEE
`
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`Page 9
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. When were you first approached
`3 about signing declarations?
`4 A. In June of -- towards the end of
`5 June 2014.
`6 Q. And who approached you?
`7 A. IEEE in-house counsel.
`8 Q. Have you ever spoken with Tammy
`9 Terry?
`10 A. No.
`11 Q. And did IEEE make a request of
`12 you?
`13 A. Yes.
`14 Q. What was that request?
`15 A. Request was to retrieve the
`16 documents, the list of documents.
`17 Q. Okay. And can you tell me what
`18 you did in response to that request?
`19 A. Yes. I queried the digital
`20 library database and retrieved the
`21 documents.
`22 Q. Did you do anything else?
`23 A. No.
`24 Q. So you didn't look at any other
`25 records other than what was in your
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 digital library.
`3 Q. And the article abstract, is
`4 that the business record that you're
`5 referring to when you refer to a business
`6 record in this declaration?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. Did you refer to any other
`9 business record other than the business
`10 record that's attached as the first page
`11 of Exhibit A of Grenier 1?
`12 A. Could you restate the question,
`13 please.
`14 (Question read.)
`15 A. Could you please just restate
`16 the question.
`17 Q. Sure. I'd be happy to. Could
`18 you take a look at the first page of
`19 Exhibit A to Grenier 1.
`20 A. Yes. Okay.
`21 Q. And that is what you've
`22 previously described in the business as
`23 a -- did you say "digital abstract"?
`24 A. Article abstract.
`25 Q. An article abstract?
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`1 GRENIER
`2 A. Yes.
`3 Q. And this is -- when you talk
`4 about business records, are you talking
`5 about -- in the declaration, when you're
`6 talking about business records, are you
`7 talking about anything other than this
`8 abstract?
`9 A. Yes. I'm also referring to the
`10 full text of the article that follows.
`11 Q. Okay. Are there any business
`12 records other than those attached as
`13 Exhibit A to Grenier 1 that you looked at
`14 in -- prior to signing the declaration of
`15 Grenier 1?
`16 A. No, there were not.
`17 Q. And in Grenier 1, I'd like to
`18 draw your attention to the signature at
`19 the bottom of the first page. Is that
`20 your signature?
`21 A. Yes, it is.
`22 Q. And it says, "Executed on June
`23 30th, 2014." Is that the date that you
`24 executed this?
`25 A. Yes.
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 A. No, I do not.
`3 Q. Okay. And you don't actually
`4 know whether copies of the article
`5 referred to in Grenier Exhibit 1 were
`6 available at the symposium, do you?
`7 A. No, I do not.
`8 Q. So it's possible, in fact, that
`9 this article was not available at the
`10 conference; isn't that right?
`11 A. I don't -- I don't know.
`12 Q. And in your declaration of
`13 Exhibit 1, in paragraph 6, you say that
`14 "The article is currently available for
`15 public downloads." Do you see that?
`16 A. Yes, I do.
`17 Q. When was this article first
`18 available for public download?
`19 A. I can only say some time after
`20 the symposium date. I do not have an
`21 exact date.
`22 Q. In fact, you don't know when it
`23 was available for download, do you?
`24 A. No.
`25 Q. There's nothing on that abstract
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`Page 13
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. Is that your handwriting -- is
`3 the date your handwriting?
`4 A. Yes, it is.
`5 Q. Do you know who drafted this
`6 document?
`7 A. I drafted this document, along
`8 with my counsel, in-house counsel.
`9 Q. Do you recall any changes to the
`10 document that you made after seeing a
`11 first draft of the document?
`12 A. No. I don't recall. No.
`13 Q. Now, paragraph 2 of this
`14 declaration refers to a symposium. Do you
`15 see that?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. Now, you didn't personally
`18 attend the symposium, did you?
`19 A. No, I did not.
`20 Q. And you don't know how many
`21 people attended the symposium, do you?
`22 A. No, I do not.
`23 Q. And you don't know the
`24 qualifications of any of the attendees of
`25 the symposium, do you?
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 page that you referred to earlier that
`3 says when it was available for download;
`4 isn't that right?
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. Now, in paragraph 4, you say
`7 that "IEEE is a neutral third party to the
`8 dispute in this IPR." Do you know what
`9 "IPR" means?
`10 A. Intellectual property and just
`11 the -- the rest escapes my mind right now.
`12 Q. But that's not a term that you
`13 use every day; is that correct?
`14 A. I use the term "IP" every day.
`15 Q. Now, in paragraph 5, you state
`16 that neither you nor IEEE are being
`17 compensated for this declaration. Is that
`18 a correct statement?
`19 A. Yes, it is.
`20 Q. And are you being compensated
`21 for the time for your deposition today?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. And who's compensating you for
`24 your time in this deposition?
`25 A. My company, the IEEE.
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. Okay. But to your knowledge,
`3 Valeo is not compensating you for the time
`4 that you're spending in deposition?
`5 A. No.
`6 (Grenier Exhibit 2, declaration
`7 of Gerard P. Grenier signed 7/25/14 with
`8 document entitled, "Multi-Resolution
`9 Vehicle Detection using Artificial Vision"
`10 attached, marked for identification, this
`11 date.)
`12 Q. I would like -- Mr. Grenier, I'd
`13 like you to take a look at Exhibit 2 --
`14 A. Okay.
`15 Q. -- Grenier Exhibit 2. Do you
`16 see that?
`17 A. Yes, I see it. I have it.
`18 Q. At the bottom of Grenier 2,
`19 there is a signature. Is that your
`20 signature?
`21 A. Yes, it is.
`22 Q. And it also has a date on it.
`23 And is that the date you signed this
`24 declaration?
`25 A. Yes. 7/25/14.
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 Exhibit 2; is that correct?
`3 A. Right.
`4 Q. And you --
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. -- you referred to an Exhibit A
`7 in paragraph 3; is that also right?
`8 A. Yes.
`9 Q. When you signed the declaration
`10 of Grenier 2, was there an exhibit
`11 attached to the declaration of Exhibit 2?
`12 A. Oh, yes.
`13 Q. And after you signed Grenier
`14 Exhibit 2, what did you do with that
`15 exhibit?
`16 A. I handed it back to my in-house
`17 counsel.
`18 Q. Okay. And Grenier Exhibit 2
`19 refers to the same conference or symposium
`20 as Grenier Exhibit 1; is that correct?
`21 A. Yes, it is. Uh-hum.
`22 (Grenier Exhibit 3, declaration
`23 of Gerard P. Grenier dated June 30, 2014
`24 with document entitled, "On-Road Vehicle
`25 Detection Using Optical Sensors: A Review"
`
`Page 15
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. Is that also your handwriting?
`3 A. Yes.
`4 Q. Now, Grenier Exhibit 1 and
`5 Grenier Exhibit 2 are -- both relate to a
`6 Broggi article; is that correct?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. But these declarations are not
`9 identical, are they?
`10 A. No. There's some -- no, they're
`11 not.
`12 Q. Do you know what differences
`13 there are between the declarations?
`14 A. I believe in statement 3, I
`15 added the word "article abstract" to note
`16 that the exhibit was both a full text
`17 article and an abstract, and the word
`18 "Smith" is a part of the statement 6.
`19 Q. When you signed Grenier
`20 Exhibit 2, was there actually an
`21 attachment that was physically associated
`22 with Grenier Exhibit 2?
`23 A. Well, I was -- what do you mean
`24 "attached"?
`25 Q. Well, you signed Grenier
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 attached, marked for identification, this
`3 date.)
`4 Q. Okay. I'd like you to take a
`5 look at Grenier Exhibit 3. Do you see
`6 that?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. And do you recognize this
`9 document?
`10 A. Yes, I do.
`11 Q. Could you tell me what this
`12 document is.
`13 A. This document is a declaration,
`14 followed by an exhibit declaring that
`15 certain publication dates related to an
`16 article titled, "On-Road Vehicle Detection
`17 Using Optical Sensors: A Review", by --
`18 this is Sun, et al.
`19 Q. And this Sun, et al. paper is
`20 attached as Exhibit A?
`21 A. Yes.
`22 Q. And there is also an abstract
`23 attached; isn't that right?
`24 A. Yes.
`25 Q. And in preparation of
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Exhibit -- Grenier Exhibit 3, did you
`3 look at any business records of IEEE other
`4 than the business records that are
`5 attached as Exhibit A?
`6 A. No.
`7 Q. And there's nothing in the
`8 business records of Exhibit A which --
`9 which disclose who was at the IEEE
`10 Conference on Intelligent Transportation;
`11 is that right?
`12 A. Yes, that's right.
`13 Q. You don't know how many
`14 participants were at that conference?
`15 A. No, I do not.
`16 Q. And you didn't attend that
`17 conference yourself?
`18 A. No, I did not.
`19 Q. And you don't know if the paper
`20 referred to in Grenier Exhibit 3 was
`21 physically available at that conference?
`22 A. No, I do not.
`23 Q. And you don't know whether an
`24 electronic version of that conference
`25 paper of Sun was available at that
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. And, again, "article abstract"
`3 is referring to the first page of
`4 Exhibit A of Grenier Exhibit 3?
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. Okay. And so is the attachment
`7 that you intended or the exhibit that you
`8 intended to be in Exhibit 4 identical to
`9 the attachment that you intended to be the
`10 exhibit in Grenier 3?
`11 A. Yes.
`12 Q. Okay. When you signed Grenier
`13 4, was there an attachment physically
`14 attached to that declaration?
`15 A. Yes.
`16 (Grenier Exhibit 5, declaration
`17 of Gerard P. Grenier dated June 30, 2014
`18 with document entitled, "Vehicle Wheel
`19 Detector Using 2D Filter Banks" attached,
`20 marked for identification, this date.)
`21 Q. Mr. Grenier, I would like you to
`22 take a look at Exhibit 5.
`23 A. Yes, I have that.
`24 Q. And do you recognize this
`25 document?
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`1 GRENIER
`2 conference?
`3 A. No, I do not.
`4 (Grenier Exhibit 4, Declaration
`5 of Gerard P. Grenier signed 7/25/14,
`6 marked for identification, this date.)
`7 Q. I would like you to take a look
`8 at Grenier Exhibit 4?
`9 A. Yes, I have it.
`10 Q. And that's your signature at the
`11 bottom of Grenier Exhibit 4?
`12 A. Yes, it is.
`13 Q. And that was signed on or about
`14 July 25th, 2014?
`15 A. Yes, it was.
`16 Q. And do you recall the difference
`17 between the declaration that is Grenier
`18 Exhibit 4 and the declaration is that is
`19 Grenier Exhibit 3?
`20 A. Yes, I do.
`21 Q. Could you tell me what those
`22 are.
`23 A. I added the words "and article
`24 abstract" in statement number 3 and I
`25 reworded slightly statement number 6.
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 A. Yes, I do.
`3 Q. Could you tell me what this
`4 document is.
`5 A. This document, in the first
`6 page, is a declaration regarding the dates
`7 of publication for the following exhibit,
`8 which begins on the third page, listing an
`9 article abstract for an article titled,
`10 "Vehicle Wheel Detector Using 2D Filter
`11 Banks", with the fourth page being the
`12 first page of the full text of the
`13 article.
`14 Q. And I'd like you to take a look
`15 at paragraph 9. Do you see that?
`16 A. Yes, I do.
`17 Q. And do you see where it says
`18 that the paper, quote, "Vehicle Wheel
`19 Detector Using 2D Filter Banks", unquote,
`20 was presented at the 2004 IEEE Intelligent
`21 Vehicle Symposium, which occurred June
`22 14th through 17th, 2004?
`23 A. Yes.
`24 Q. What did you mean by the term
`25 "was presented"?
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`1 GRENIER
`2 A. What I meant by that was that,
`3 when IEEE holds a conference, a
`4 requirement is that every author of papers
`5 present physically that paper at the
`6 conference in order for it to be published
`7 in the conference proceedings.
`8 Q. This is not a conference that
`9 you attended; is that correct?
`10 A. That's correct.
`11 Q. And the Achler paper that you
`12 referred to in paragraph 2, you don't know
`13 if that paper was physically available at
`14 the 2004 conference referred to in
`15 paragraph 2 of the Grenier 5 declaration?
`16 A. Could you restate that, please.
`17 Q. Sure. In paragraph 2, you are
`18 referring to a paper and the author -- one
`19 of the authors is Achler. Do you see
`20 that?
`21 A. Yes.
`22 Q. And you don't know whether that
`23 Achler paper was available to the
`24 attendees of the conference referred to in
`25 paragraph 2, do you?
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 paragraph 2?
`3 A. No, I do not.
`4 Q. Do you know the credentials of
`5 the people who attended the conference
`6 referred to in paragraph 2?
`7 A. No, I do not.
`8 Q. And other than the business
`9 records of Exhibit A, did you look at any
`10 other business records prior to signing
`11 the declaration of Exhibit 5?
`12 A. No, I did not.
`13 (Grenier Exhibit 6, declaration
`14 of Gerard P. Grenier dated 7/25/2014,
`15 marked for identification, this date.)
`16 Q. Could you take a look at
`17 Exhibit 6, please.
`18 A. Yes, 6, I have that.
`19 Q. And do you recognize that
`20 document?
`21 A. Yes, I do. It's a declaration
`22 of -- attesting to the publication dates
`23 of an article entitled, "Vehicle Wheel
`24 Detector Using 2D Filter Banks".
`25 Q. And the paper that is referred
`
`Page 23
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`1 GRENIER
`2 A. Well, I do, only because the
`3 conference proceedings is a record of that
`4 conference proceedings.
`5 Q. What do you mean by that?
`6 A. The conference proceedings is
`7 the official published record of that
`8 proceedings.
`9 Q. Is there anything in Exhibit A
`10 which tells you that the paper entitled,
`11 "Vehicle Wheel Detector Using 2D Filter
`12 Banks" was available to the attendees of
`13 the conference of June 14th through 17th,
`14 2004?
`15 A. No.
`16 Q. Okay. In fact, there is nothing
`17 in Exhibit A which tells you that the
`18 paper described in paragraph 2 of Grenier
`19 Exhibit 5 was available to the attendees
`20 of the June 14th through 17th symposium?
`21 A. Yes.
`22 Q. Yes, that's correct?
`23 A. Yes, that's correct.
`24 Q. Do you know how many people
`25 attended the conference referred to in
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 to in Grenier Exhibit 6 is the same paper
`3 that's referred to in Grenier Exhibit 5;
`4 is that correct?
`5 A. Yes, that's correct.
`6 Q. And all the information that you
`7 testified previously with respect to
`8 Exhibit 5 is applicable also to Exhibit 6?
`9 A. Yes.
`10 Q. Do you recall the difference
`11 between Exhibit 5 and Exhibit 6?
`12 A. The differences, again, are in
`13 the declaration page, in statement 3 and
`14 also statement 6. Statement 3, I noted
`15 that there was an article abstract
`16 accompanying the exhibit, and statement 6
`17 I just restated -- reworded the paragraph
`18 to include different wording in the way
`19 that the conference proceedings was
`20 stated.
`21 Q. Do you know when the first time
`22 the Achler paper was available for
`23 download?
`24 A. No, I do not.
`25 (Grenier Exhibit 7, declaration
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`1 GRENIER
`2 of Gerard P. Grenier dated June 30, 2014
`3 with document entitled, "CMOS Video
`4 Cameras" attached, marked for
`5 identification, this date.)
`6 Q. I'd like to draw your attention
`7 to Grenier Exhibit 7.
`8 A. Okay.
`9 Q. Do you recognize this document?
`10 A. Yes, I do. It is a declaration
`11 of the publication dates of a paper by
`12 Wang, et al., titled, "CMOS Video
`13 Cameras", presented at Euro ASIC, May 27,
`14 1991.
`15 Q. Do you know when the Wang
`16 article was first available to the public?
`17 A. No.
`18 Q. Do you know when the Wang
`19 article was first available for downloads
`20 on the IEEE Explorer Web site?
`21 A. No.
`22 Q. Now, I'd like to draw your
`23 attention to paragraph 9, and in 9 b) you
`24 mentioned that "IEEE has registered this
`25 conference with U.S. Copyright Office."
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 (Grenier Exhibit 8, declaration
`3 of Gerard P. Grenier dated 7/25/14, marked
`4 for identification, this date.)
`5 Q. I'd like to you take a look at
`6 Grenier Exhibit 8. Do you recognize this
`7 document?
`8 A. Yes, I do.
`9 Q. Could you tell me what this
`10 document is.
`11 A. Yes. It is a declaration as to
`12 the publication dates for an article by
`13 Wang, et al., titled, "CMOS Video Cameras,
`14 Euro ASIC", in Paris, May 27, 1991.
`15 Q. And that's your signature at the
`16 bottom of Exhibit 8?
`17 A. Yes. It is.
`18 MR. CORNWELL: Mr. Grenier, I
`19 would like to thank you for your time. I
`20 don't actually anymore more questions for
`21 you.
`22 THE WITNESS: Okay. You're
`23 welcome. Thank you.
`24 MS. TERRY: This is Tammy
`25 Terry. Hi. If I could be given just a
`
`Page 27
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`1 GRENIER
`2 What do you mean by "registering
`3 this conference"?
`4 A. Well, part of our normal
`5 business of publishing is anything that's,
`6 you know, published for the record in the
`7 United States, we publish -- we send to
`8 the U.S. Copyright Office information, not
`9 unlike we would find on the abstract page,
`10 in order to get something called the ISBN,
`11 which is a number listed on the abstract
`12 page.
`13 Q. And the -- is the reason that
`14 you know it was registered at the U.S.
`15 Copyright Office, because there's a
`16 printed ISBN number on the abstract page?
`17 A. That, coupled with the fact that
`18 it's part of our normal business activity,
`19 to register copyright.
`20 Q. Okay. Was it your normal
`21 business activity in 1991?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. Did you work for IEEE in 1991?
`24 A. No, I did not.
`25 Q. Okay.
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 couple of minutes, really quickly, of a
`3 break and then I just have a couple of
`4 questions. I just want to get my notes
`5 together really quickly.
`6 MS. BAKSH: Sure. No problem.
`7 (Brief recess.)
`8 EXAMINATION BY MS. TERRY:
`9 Q. Hello, Mr. Grenier. My name is
`10 Tammy Terry and we have not met before
`11 today, have we?
`12 A. No, we haven't. How are you?
`13 Q. I am doing fine. Thank you.
`14 How are you?
`15 A. Great. Thanks.
`16 Q. Thank you for taking the time
`17 for this deposition today. I will try to
`18 be brief. I only have a few follow-up
`19 questions based on the questions that
`20 Mr. Cornwall already asked you. And I
`21 would ask that the same agreements that he
`22 asked you to go through in the beginning
`23 apply here just as well. Do I get that
`24 agreement from you, please?
`25 A. Yes, uh-huh. Yes.
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`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. Alright. Thank you.
`3 So, Mr. Grenier, a few moments
`4 ago, Mr. Cornwall asked you a series of
`5 questions about these exhibits, and I'd
`6 like to direct your attention to Grenier
`7 Exhibit 2 at this time, please.
`8 A. Yes. Okay. I have that.
`9 Q. I just want to make sure that we
`10 are clear on the record. Exhibit 2 refers
`11 to an Exhibit A attached; is that correct?
`12 A. Yes.
`13 Q. In paragraph 3?
`14 A. Yes, in paragraph 3, yes.
`15 Q. We don't actually see a copy of
`16 that Exhibit A attached to Grenier
`17 Exhibit 2 today, do we?
`18 A. No. It -- no. We do not.
`19 Q. But your understanding, and your
`20 intent, was that the same exact Exhibit A
`21 that was attached to Grenier 1 would have
`22 been attached to Grenier 2; is that
`23 correct?
`24 A. Yes.
`25 Q. I'm going to ask you a similar
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 A. Yes, I do.
`3 Q. However, again, with this
`4 declaration, an actual copy of Exhibit A
`5 is not enclosed here today in front of you
`6 with the Exhibit -- with Grenier 6; is
`7 that correct?
`8 A. That's correct.
`9 Q. But do you understand, and you
`10 intended an exact copy of the Exhibit A
`11 that was included with Grenier 5 to also
`12 have been included with this Grenier
`13 Exhibit 6; is that correct?
`14 A. Yes, it is.
`15 Q. And Mr. Grenier, if I could next
`16 direct your attention to Grenier
`17 Exhibit 8.
`18 A. Yes, I have that.
`19 Q. And, again, in Grenier
`20 Exhibit 8, at paragraph 3, there is a
`21 reference to an Exhibit A. Did you see
`22 that?
`23 A. Yes, I do.
`24 Q. However, there's not an actual
`25 copy as we sit here today of that
`
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`Page 33
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`1 GRENIER
`2 question. If we could take a look now at
`3 Grenier Exhibit 4.
`4 A. Yes. I have that.
`5 Q. For Grenier Exhibit 4, it also
`6 refers to, in paragraph 3, an Exhibit A.
`7 Do you see that?
`8 A. Yes, I do.
`9 Q. However, a copy of that
`10 Exhibit A is not actually attached to the
`11 particular declaration that's contained in
`12 Grenier 4; is that correct?
`13 A. That is correct.
`14 Q. But it is your understanding and
`15 intent that an identical copy of Exhibit A
`16 to Grenier 3 would have been attached to
`17 Grenier 4; is that correct?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. I'm going to ask you, please, to
`20 direct your attention next to Grenier
`21 Exhibit 6.
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. And, again, here, we have in
`24 paragraph 3 a reference to Exhibit A to
`25 this declaration. Do you see that?
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 Exhibit A attached to Grenier 8; is there?
`3 A. That's correct.
`4 Q. But you do understand, and it
`5 would have been your intent, that an
`6 identical copy of the Exhibit A that was
`7 attached to Grenier 7 would have also been
`8 attached as Exhibit A to this Grenier 8;
`9 is that correct?
`10 A. Yes, that's correct.
`11 Q. Okay. Thank you. I just wanted
`12 to clarify the record with respect to that
`13 particular issue.
`14 Now, I have a couple of more
`15 questions. If I could get you, please, to
`16 look back at Grenier Exhibit 2. Let me
`17 know when you're there.
`18 A. Okay. I have that.
`19 Q. In paragraph 9 of this exhibit,
`20 you testified in paragraph 9 a) that the
`21 article titled, "Multi-Resolution Vehicle
`22 Detection Using Artificial Vision" was
`23 published and presented at the 2004 IEEE
`24 Intelligent Vehicle Symposium, which
`25 occurred June 14th through June -- June
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`1 GRENIER
`2 14th through 17th, 2004. Do you see that?
`3 A. Yes.
`4 Q. And it is still your
`5 understanding, based on your review of
`6 business records today, that that is one
`7 article that is published; correct.
`8 MR. CORNWELL: Objection.
`9 A. Yes.
`10 MR. CORNWELL: You're leading
`11 the witness.
`12 Q. Has -- your testimony, as you
`13 stated here, is accurate to the best of
`14 your knowledge, isn't it, Mr. Grenier?
`15 A. Yes, it is.
`16 Q. And there's not anything that
`17 leads you to believe that the business
`18 records you reviewed in confirming this
`19 publication date are inaccurate, is there?
`20 A. No, there's nothing to lead me
`21 to think that they were inaccurate.
`22 Q. And you would, in the ordinary
`23 course of business, rely on the business
`24 records that you reviewed to confirm the
`25 publication date of an article, wouldn't
`
`1 GRENIER
`2 Q. Would that have occurred for
`3 this symposium as well?
`4 MR. CORNWELL: Objection.
`5 A. Yes.
`6 MS. BAKSH: If you remember.
`7 Q. Okay. And I can direct your
`8 attention to the same Grenier 2 to
`9 paragraph 6 to refresh your recollection.
`10 A. Yes. Okay.
`11 Q. And so your understanding was
`12 that these conference proceedings would
`13