·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · THE BOEING COMPANY
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·SEYMOUR LEVINE
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner
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`10
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`12· · · · · · · · · · Case No. IPR2015-01341
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·U.S. Patent No. RE39,618
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`16
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`17· ·DEPOSITION OF:
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`18· · · · · · · · · · · · SEYMOUR LEVINE
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`19· · · · · · · · · · THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2016
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:56 A.M.
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`23· ·REPORTED BY:
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`24· · · · · · · · · ·SUSAN NELSON
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`25· · · · · · · · · ·C.S.R. No. 3202
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`BOEING Exhibit 1043
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`·2· · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · THE BOEING COMPANY
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioner
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · v.
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·SEYMOUR LEVINE
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · ·Patent Owner
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`12· · · · · · · · · · Case No. IPR2015-01341
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·U.S. Patent No. RE39,618
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`15
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`16
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`17· ·DEPOSITION OF:
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`18· · · · · · · · · · · · SEYMOUR LEVINE
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`19· · · · · · · · · · THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2016
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`20· · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:56 A.M.
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`21
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`22
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`23· ·REPORTED BY:
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`24· · · · · · · · · ·SUSAN NELSON
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`25· · · · · · · · · ·C.S.R. No. 3202
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`·1· ·Deposition of SEYMOUR LEVINE, the witness, taken on
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`·2· ·behalf of the petitioner, commencing at 9:56 A.M., on
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`·3· ·THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2016, at 355 South Grand Avenue,
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`·4· ·Los Angeles, California, before SUSAN NELSON, C.S.R.
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`·5· ·No. 3202.
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`·6
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`·7· ·APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
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`·8
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`·9· ·FOR PETITIONER:
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`10· · · · · · MUNGER, TOLLES & OLSON LLP
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`11· · · · · · BY:· TED G. DANE, ESQ.
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`12· · · · · · 355 South Grand Avenue
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`13· · · · · · 35th Floor
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`14· · · · · · Los Angeles, California 90071-1560
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`15· · · · · · (213) 683-9288
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`16
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`17· ·FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
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`18· · · · · · QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
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`19· · · · · · BY:· BRUCE R. ZISSER, ESQ.
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`20· · · · · · 865 South Figueroa Street
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`21· · · · · · 10th Floor
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`22· · · · · · Los Angeles, California 90017
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`23· · · · · · (213) 443-3434
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`BOEING Exhibit 1043
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2· ·WITNESS· · · · ·EXAMINATION· · · · ·PAGE
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`·3· ·SEYMOUR LEVINE
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`·4· · · · · · · · · ·By Mr. Dane· · · · ·5, 128
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`·5· · · · · · · · · ·(P.M. Session)· · · 75
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`·6· · · · · · · · · ·By Mr. Zisser· · · ·125
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`·7
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
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`·9· ·NO.· · · · · · ·PAGE· · · DESCRIPTION
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`10· ·Exhibit 1043· · 25· · · · 5/6/18/96 Handwritten Notes
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`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Levine Ex. 2002
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`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·(LEV004229-4233)
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`13· ·Exhibit 2013· · 126· · · ·09/16/96 Remote Flight
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`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Recorder and Timely Aircraft
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Advisory System, RAFTS,
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`16· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Abstract
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`17· · · · · · · · ·PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
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`18· ·NO.· · · · · · ·PAGE· · · DESCRIPTION
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`19· ·Exhibit 1001· · 54· · · · Patent Number US RE39,618
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`20· ·Exhibit 2002· · 19· · · · 5/18/96 Handwritten Notes
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·(LEV004229-4237)
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`22· ·Exhibit 2003· · 34· · · · 10/09/96 Remote Flight
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`23· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Recorder and Timely Aircraft
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`24· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Advisory System, RAFTS,
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`25· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Abstract
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`BOEING Exhibit 1043
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
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`·2· ·NO.· · · · · · ·PAGE· · · DESCRIPTION
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`·3· ·Exhibit 2004· · 51· · · · 10/23/96 Remote Flight
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Recorder and Timely Aircraft
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Advisory System, RAFTS,
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Abstract
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`·7· ·Exhibit 2008· · 53· · · · 11/19/96 Document to
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`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·Mr. Levine from Mr. Townsley
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`·9· ·Exhibit 2009· · 18· · · · Declaration of Seymour Levine
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`·1· · · · · · · · · LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA;
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`·2· · · · · · · · · ·THURSDAY, MAY 19, 2016;
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · ·9:56 A.M.
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · · · · · · · ·SEYMOUR LEVINE,
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`·6· · · · · · · having been first duly sworn, was
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`·7· · · · · · · examined and testified as follows:
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`·8
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
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`10
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`11· ·BY MR. DANE:
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`12· · · · Q.· Good morning, Mr. Levine.
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`13· · · · A.· Good morning.
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`14· · · · Q.· Could you please state your name for the
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`15· ·record for me.
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`16· · · · A.· My name is Seymour Levine.· S-e-y-m-o-u-r,
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`17· ·last name Levine, L-e-v-i-n-e.
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`18· · · · Q.· And have you ever been deposed before?
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`19· · · · A.· No.
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`20· · · · Q.· Have you had a chance to discuss deposition
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`21· ·procedures with your counsel?
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`22· · · · A.· Yes, a little bit.
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`23· · · · Q.· Okay.· Let me just go over a couple of the
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`24· ·basics.· So I will be asking you questions, as you
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`25· ·know, during the day.· I would ask that you please
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`·1· ·listen carefully to my questions and if you don't
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`·2· ·understand any of my questions, please let me know.
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`·3· ·I'll try to clarify the question and make it clearer to
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`·4· ·you.
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`·5· · · · · · Also, please wait until I complete my question
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`·6· ·before you answer.· This is a somewhat artificial
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`·7· ·process.· It's not like a normal conversation.· You may
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`·8· ·know exactly where I'm going with my question and may
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`·9· ·want to go ahead and answer it, but that makes for a
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`10· ·confusing record for the court reporter.
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`11· · · · · · So if you can wait until I complete the
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`12· ·question before you give your answer, and I'll extend
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`13· ·you the same courtesy, and I'll do my best not to
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`14· ·interrupt any of your answers.
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`15· · · · · · Is that okay?
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`16· · · · A.· Yes.
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`17· · · · Q.· At any point during the deposition, if you
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`18· ·would like to take a break, just let me know and we can
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`19· ·do that.· The only exception I would add is that if
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`20· ·I've asked you a question that you have not yet
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`21· ·answered, I would ask that you complete your answer
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`22· ·before you take a break unless there's some matter of
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`23· ·confidentiality or privilege that you feel that you
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`24· ·need to talk to your lawyer about.· Okay?
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`25· · · · A.· (Nods head.)
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`·1· · · · Q.· Is there any reason that you cannot provide
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`·2· ·your best testimony today?
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`·3· · · · A.· No.
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`·4· · · · Q.· Okay.· If you could briefly, sir, describe for
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`·5· ·me your educational history, beginning with college.
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`·6· · · · A.· Okay.· I went to high school at night. I
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`·7· ·graduated New York University Engineering School at
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`·8· ·night, and I graduated Brooklyn Polytechnic Institute
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`·9· ·for my graduate degrees.
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`10· · · · Q.· And what were your graduate degrees?
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`11· · · · A.· Master of science in electrical engineering,
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`12· ·systems engineering.
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`13· · · · Q.· And what year did you obtain those degrees?
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`14· · · · A.· I think I got my degrees '96.· And, I don't
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`15· ·know, '58, I guess, '59 was my bachelor's.
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`16· · · · Q.· Okay.· '96 for the master's?
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`17· · · · A.· Yes.
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`18· · · · Q.· And can you review your employment history
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`19· ·beginning post college?
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`20· · · · A.· I don't remember all, but I was with a company
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`21· ·called Sperry Gyroscope and I was with them for
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`22· ·21 years approximately.
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`23· · · · · · And, after that, I was with Litton Industries,
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`24· ·okay, out here in California for about six years.
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`25· · · · · · And after that, I was with Northrop,
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`BOEING Exhibit 1043
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`·1· ·electronic systems division, and I was with them for
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`·2· ·ten years.
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`·3· · · · · · And subsequent to that, I taught high school
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`·4· ·at Los Angeles High School in the science department.
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`·5· ·And I also taught a little bit at Western Lake College
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`·6· ·and ITT.· Okay?
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`·7· · · · · · I left Northrop in '95.· I think that's
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`·8· ·correct.· That's what I believe.
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`·9· · · · Q.· So working backwards, were you at Litton
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`10· ·immediately prior to Northrop, so 1979 to '85
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`11· ·approximately?
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`12· · · · A.· Something like that, yeah.· It goes from --
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`13· ·Northrop was -- I left in June of '95 and therefore
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`14· ·I -- ten years prior to that, I was at Litton for six
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`15· ·years.
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`16· · · · Q.· And did you work at Sperry immediately prior
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`17· ·to working at Litton, so late fifties to '79?
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`18· · · · A.· Yeah.· Oh, yeah.
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`19· · · · Q.· And what jobs did you hold at Sperry?
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`20· · · · A.· I was senior research section head.
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`21· · · · Q.· In any particular department?
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`22· · · · A.· Guidance, inertial guidance.
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`23· · · · Q.· And was that for the entire 21 years?
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`24· · · · A.· Pretty much so.
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`25· · · · Q.· And what were your responsibilities as senior
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`·1· ·research section head?
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`·2· · · · A.· I had a group of engineers working for me.
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`·3· ·Designed the navigation system for the Polara
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`·4· ·submarine.· Defined something called the north fighting
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`·5· ·module which went on a lot of tanks and all that --
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`·6· ·things.
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`·7· · · · · · I did the guidance system for the Ethan Allen
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`·8· ·submarine, which was the one used in the book The Hunt
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`·9· ·for Red October.· It was very neat.· But I did the real
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`10· ·one.
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`11· · · · Q.· Any work involving avionics during the time
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`12· ·that you were at Sperry?
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`13· · · · A.· Yes.· I did the first inertial system for
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`14· ·commercial navigation.· It was called the SGN-10.
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`15· · · · Q.· And when you say you did that, did you design
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`16· ·it?
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`17· · · · A.· I have -- yeah, I have a patent on that.
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`18· ·While I was a research section head.
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`19· · · · Q.· And did Sperry then commercialize that system?
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`20· · · · A.· Yes, it was a commercial system.
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`21· · · · Q.· Was there a name given to it?
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`22· · · · A.· The SGN-10.
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`23· · · · Q.· I'm sorry.
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`24· · · · A.· It went on a Pan Am plane, Pan American.· 707.
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`25· · · · Q.· And was that the only -- was that the one
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`·1· ·avionics project that you had at Sperry or were there
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`·2· ·any others?
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`·3· · · · A.· I don't recall, but I think that was the only
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`·4· ·avionics one.
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`·5· · · · Q.· Okay.· Let's turn to Litton.· What were your
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`·6· ·jobs at Litton?
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`·7· · · · A.· I got hired as a dep- -- well, trying to think
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`·8· ·of what it was.· I'm not sure.· Section head or some --
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`·9· ·oh, director -- I got hired as director.· They -- there
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`10· ·was a gyro compass that I worked on at -- for a land
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`11· ·compass for -- at Sperry, and then they had a marine
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`12· ·problem, which is ships, the problem, and they
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`13· ·recruited me to come out because they were -- and had
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`14· ·this contract and they were having problems with their
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`15· ·inertial system.
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`16· · · · · · So two things in there.· One was the marine
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`17· ·compass and everything and they just want the tide
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`18· ·compasses, land compasses, so they were -- but the real
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`19· ·thing was they had a problem with the marine compass
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`20· ·that they had.
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`21· · · · Q.· You said you were hired as a director.
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`22· ·Director of what group or department?
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`23· · · · A.· I don't remember exactly, but later on, it
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`24· ·became director of support equipment.· But I wasn't --
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`25· ·I didn't go there originally for support equipment.· It
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`·1· ·was for this problem that they had.· They hired me,
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`·2· ·recruited me, paid my way to California.
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`·3· · · · Q.· Did you do any work involving avionics during
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`·4· ·the time you were at Litton?
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`·5· · · · A.· I'm trying to think.· Not anything major,
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`·6· ·nothing.
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`·7· · · · Q.· Can you describe the positions that you held
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`·8· ·at Northrop?
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`·9· · · · A.· I came in as a research engineer, senior
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`10· ·research engineer.· And then I advanced to program
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`11· ·manager for the B-2 stealth bomber and then to chief
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`12· ·engineer of the electronics division.
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`13· · · · Q.· Okay.· Starting out with your work as a
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`14· ·research -- senior research engineer, what were your
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`15· ·job responsibilities as senior research engineer?
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`16· · · · A.· I got hired primarily for the B-2 stealth
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`17· ·guidance system, which was being built, and it was
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`18· ·designed and they -- they probably needed help in that
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`19· ·area.
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`20· · · · Q.· And so was your work related to the guidance
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`21· ·system, essentially further design and development of
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`22· ·the system?
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`23· · · · A.· Yes.· It was a stellar inertial.
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`24· · · · Q.· And what is a stellar inertial guidance
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`25· ·system?
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`·1· · · · A.· Well, it's a star tracker.· The B-2 didn't
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`·2· ·want to depend on radio waves.· So, to get accuracy,
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`·3· ·the plane could look at the stars and update the
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`·4· ·inertial system with the stars, which is no different
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`·5· ·than what the Polara system did.
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`·6· · · · Q.· And what were your responsibilities as the
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`·7· ·chief engineer of the electronics division at Northrop?
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`·8· · · · A.· Oh, it was a lot of different things.· It
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`·9· ·covered the gamut of guidance.· Okay?· But Northrop
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`10· ·had, I guess, decided to close the Palos Verdes
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`11· ·research center, so several really well-qualified
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`12· ·research engineers at Palos Verdes were assigned to me.
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`13· ·And what we did is laser work for a whole bunch of
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`14· ·different types of programs, holographic memories and
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`15· ·guidance.· So I still had some responsibility for
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`16· ·making sure the guidance system for the B-2 worked.
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`17· · · · · · Oh, also Peacekeeper, which was a missile
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`18· ·system which was a guidance system that Northrop had.
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`19· ·Missile system.
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`20· · · · Q.· And can you break down for me for the ten
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`21· ·years that you were at Northrop what period of time you
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`22· ·held these different positions, senior research
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`23· ·engineer working on the B-2 stealth bomber and then --
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`24· · · · A.· Probably even --
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`25· · · · Q.· -- the chief engineer?
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`·1· · · · A.· -- about three years apiece.
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`·2· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· I'm sorry.· Say again.
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`·3· ·"Probably"?
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`·4· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Probably even, about three years
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`·5· ·apiece.
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`·6· ·BY MR. DANE:
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`·7· · · · Q.· That's an example of where, if you can, if you
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`·8· ·can wait till I finish the question just to make it
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`·9· ·easier on the court reporter.
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`10· · · · A.· Oh, yes.· No, that's fine.· Yeah, it's my
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`11· ·fault.
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`12· · · · Q.· Did you do any work on commercial avionics
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`13· ·during the time that you were at Northrop?
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`14· · · · A.· No.
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`15· · · · Q.· Did you do any work related to aircraft
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`16· ·maintenance during the time that you were at Northrop?
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`17· · · · A.· No.
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`18· · · · Q.· Are you familiar with ARINC?
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`19· · · · A.· A little bit.
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`20· · · · Q.· What is your understanding of ARINC?
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`21· · · · A.· It's a group of people that get together and
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`22· ·write specs for commercial airlines.
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`23· · · · Q.· And, more specifically, do you understand that
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`24· ·those are specs that relate to commercial airlines
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`25· ·communication systems?
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`·1· · · · A.· Relates to a lot of things.
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`·2· · · · Q.· Including aeronautical communication systems?
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`·3· · · · A.· Yes.
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`·4· · · · Q.· And do you understand that ARINC also develops
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`·5· ·standards related to aeronautical communication
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`·6· ·systems?
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`·7· · · · A.· Some of them.
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`·8· · · · Q.· During your work at Northrop, did you have any
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`·9· ·occasion to work with any of the ARINC standards?
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`10· · · · A.· No.· My work at Sperry where I did the
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`11· ·commercial inertial, then I had things where ARINC
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`12· ·didn't have specs for inertial at all.· It came out of
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`13· ·Pan Am.· And during that particular time, ARINC
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`14· ·contacted me and wanted to have specs because they sort
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`15· ·of -- Boeing didn't believe inertial would work.· Okay?
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`16· ·But Pan Am believed it, and Pan Am wanted to have
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`17· ·inertial systems to get rid of the navigator.
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`18· · · · · · There used to be three pilots aboard a plane,
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`19· ·one of which was a navigator.· And they advertised and
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`20· ·they worked on it -- Boeing, you know, including --
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`21· ·said that the man navigator is much, much better than
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`22· ·gyro navigator, inertial navigator.· But Pan Am wanted
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`23· ·to get rid of that extra pilot position.· And they made
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`24· ·a deal with the navigator that if inertial system was
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`25· ·put on, he would get paid whether he would -- and that
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`·1· ·pushed it through.· But up to that time, the propaganda
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`·2· ·was the navigator makes it safer, but it turns out the
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`·3· ·inertial system is much safer than the navigator.
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`·4· · · · Q.· Do you recall approximately when it was that
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`·5· ·Pan Am contacted you about -- I'm sorry -- that ARINC
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`·6· ·contacted you about possible standards for an inertial
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`·7· ·navigation system?
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`·8· · · · A.· Oh, it's a long time ago.· I think it's
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`·9· ·about -- I don't remember when the SE antenna was
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`10· ·developed.· Yeah, I'm not sure.· It's prior to going to
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`11· ·Litton, so it's in the fifties, early sixties, 1960s.
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`12· ·Something like that.
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`13· · · · · · Then one of the engineers working for me
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`14· ·eventually went to Boeing and he contacted me and he
`
`15· ·said, "Can I use the spec?"· Because Boeing now
`
`16· ·believed in inertial systems.
`
`17· · · · · · And I told him, "Sure, there's no problem with
`
`18· ·the spec."
`
`19· · · · · · So it's in the early -- it's in the early
`
`20· ·sixties, I would guess.
`
`21· · · · Q.· Was there ever a standard that was developed
`
`22· ·out of your work on the inertial navigation systems?
`
`23· · · · A.· What do you mean?
`
`24· · · · Q.· Was there an ARINC standard --
`
`25· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 15 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· -- or any other industry standard?
`
`·2· · · · A.· Oh, yeah.· Both Boeing and ARINC took the spec
`
`·3· ·that we had, and we had no problem with that, so there
`
`·4· ·was no -- no issue.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Okay.· Was that also in the 1960s time period?
`
`·6· · · · A.· Yeah, it's the end of -- I'd have to take a
`
`·7· ·look.· It was -- it's close to the end of my
`
`·8· ·employment.
`
`·9· · · · · · The inertial system was finished and it was on
`
`10· ·to these tank systems.· So that was in that period of
`
`11· ·time, sometime in the sixties, early sixties.· But
`
`12· ·there was no spec like that.
`
`13· · · · · · They -- basically, Boeing and ARINC didn't
`
`14· ·believe in inertial system.· And somehow Pan Am got
`
`15· ·into it and they put out this spec they -- that they
`
`16· ·wanted an inertial system and Sperry won that inertial
`
`17· ·system.· So when they won the inertial system, the
`
`18· ·first thing that people do is write a spec so you can
`
`19· ·start doing work.
`
`20· · · · · · And when it proved -- when it got -- when the
`
`21· ·FAA certified the system, then they were all
`
`22· ·interested.· Boeing was interested in the other thing,
`
`23· ·and that's how it came about.
`
`24· · · · Q.· Are you familiar with ACARS?
`
`25· · · · A.· A little bit.
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 16 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· And what is your understanding of what ACARS
`
`·2· ·is?
`
`·3· · · · A.· I don't know exactly.· It's -- I don't know
`
`·4· ·what the whole thing on ACARS is.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Do you understand it to be a data link system
`
`·6· ·for transmitting messages from an aircraft to a --
`
`·7· · · · A.· It's a --
`
`·8· · · · Q.· -- ground station?
`
`·9· · · · A.· Yeah, it's -- ACARS is a communication system.
`
`10· · · · Q.· Did you have any work involving ACARS during
`
`11· ·any of the jobs --
`
`12· · · · A.· No.
`
`13· · · · Q.· -- that you had in avionics?
`
`14· · · · A.· No.
`
`15· · · · Q.· Do you know who developed ACARS?
`
`16· · · · A.· I'm not familiar, but it comes out of ARINC
`
`17· ·and the people there.
`
`18· · · · Q.· Do you have any understanding of when the
`
`19· ·first ACARS protocol was developed?
`
`20· · · · A.· No.
`
`21· · · · Q.· Do you recall it being roughly in the
`
`22· ·seventies?
`
`23· · · · A.· I don't recall much about it.
`
`24· · · · Q.· Okay.· I'm going to ask you some questions
`
`25· ·about the declaration you gave in the case.· Let me get
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 17 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· ·that for you.· And this is Exhibit 2009.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · (The document referred to was
`
`·3· · · · · · marked as previously Exhibit 2009.)
`
`·4· ·BY MR. DANE:
`
`·5· · · · Q.· Mr. Levine, I've handed you a document
`
`·6· ·entitled "Declaration of Seymour Levine in Support of
`
`·7· ·Patent Owner's Response Pursuant to 37 C.F.R. Section
`
`·8· ·42.120."
`
`·9· · · · · · And I'll ask you if you recognize this
`
`10· ·document?
`
`11· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`12· · · · Q.· And is this a declaration that you prepared?
`
`13· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`14· · · · Q.· And if you look at the third page, there's a
`
`15· ·signature.· Is that your signature?
`
`16· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`17· · · · Q.· Okay.· I just want to go through some of the
`
`18· ·statements that you have and ask you some questions
`
`19· ·about them.
`
`20· · · · · · And first asking about paragraph 2.· The first
`
`21· ·sentence there says:
`
`22· · · · · · · · "On or before May 18th, 1996, I
`
`23· · · · · · conceived, in the United States, of
`
`24· · · · · · the inventions disclosed and claimed
`
`25· · · · · · in U.S. Patent RE 39,618."
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 18 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·2· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·3· · · · Q.· And is it okay with you if during the course
`
`·4· ·of the day if I refer to your patent as the '618 patent
`
`·5· ·just as an abbreviation?
`
`·6· · · · A.· That's fine.
`
`·7· · · · Q.· Okay.· You go on to say:
`
`·8· · · · · · · · "I recorded the details of my
`
`·9· · · · · · invention in contemporaneous
`
`10· · · · · · handwritten notes, true and correct
`
`11· · · · · · copies of which are contained in
`
`12· · · · · · Exhibit 2002."
`
`13· · · · · · I just want to give you those notes.
`
`14· · · · A.· Thank you.
`
`15· · · · · · · · (The document referred to was
`
`16· · · · · · marked as previously Exhibit 2002.)
`
`17· ·BY MR. DANE:
`
`18· · · · Q.· So, first of all, in the declaration you
`
`19· ·indicate that you conceived of your invention on or
`
`20· ·before May 18th, 1996.· And what I wanted to ask you
`
`21· ·is, is Exhibit 2002, which bears the date May 18th,
`
`22· ·1996, is this the first written document that you have
`
`23· ·that includes a description of your invention?
`
`24· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`25· · · · Q.· Okay.
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 19 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· I thought about it, the one prior to that, but
`
`·2· ·I -- going in my head, but I decided to write it down.
`
`·3· ·And this is the first written document.
`
`·4· · · · Q.· Okay.· And at this time, had you left
`
`·5· ·Northrop?· Were he no longer employed by Northrop at
`
`·6· ·the time?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes, this is -- oh, I left Northrop in 6/95.
`
`·8· ·June of '95.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· So were you teaching high school at this time?
`
`10· · · · A.· I was -- I started high school about -- I had
`
`11· ·to get some teaching credentials and stuff like that.
`
`12· ·I started high school about a year or so later than
`
`13· ·this.· So during that time, I was retired.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Okay.· Let me just ask you generally, how did
`
`15· ·it come to be that you came up with the idea for this
`
`16· ·invention?
`
`17· · · · A.· I had one of these super engineers that were
`
`18· ·in the Palos Verdes report to me.· His name was Dave
`
`19· ·Garber.· And I had a work assignment from people
`
`20· ·request -- from Rolling Meadows, Chicago, for a
`
`21· ·software engineer temporarily.· And I asked this
`
`22· ·engineer, who was a software engineer, would he like to
`
`23· ·go to that at least for a few weeks.· And he said he'd
`
`24· ·like to go.· He said it would be okay with him.
`
`25· · · · · · So I sent Dave Garber to Chicago and then Dave
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 20 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· ·Garber, for whatever reason -- okay.· I know the
`
`·2· ·reason.· He wanted to visit his mother on his birthday.
`
`·3· ·He didn't tell his mother that he was coming.· And he
`
`·4· ·took an airplane, a 737, and he died in the Aliquippa
`
`·5· ·crash.· Okay.
`
`·6· · · · · · And when he died in the Aliquippa crash,
`
`·7· ·Boeing was saying air turbulence between the planes.
`
`·8· ·And I had people -- I don't remember the contract which
`
`·9· ·was -- had laser -- turbulence sensors, and it didn't
`
`10· ·make any sense to me at all on the Aliquippa crash.
`
`11· ·And that was 1994.
`
`12· · · · · · And he decided, once again, to visit his
`
`13· ·parents, not telling them, to go from Chicago to
`
`14· ·Pittsburgh.· Everybody was wondering where's Dave when
`
`15· ·he came back.· He died in that crash.· That was the
`
`16· ·rudder problem.· But I didn't -- nobody knew the rudder
`
`17· ·problem.· They were saying air turbulence.· And I
`
`18· ·looked at the thing and it looked like several crashes,
`
`19· ·fatal crashes.
`
`20· · · · · · And I called the FAA.· And they said, "Oh, no,
`
`21· ·Boeing has it.· It's air turbulence."
`
`22· · · · · · I said, "It doesn't make sense to me."
`
`23· · · · · · And then I called the NTSB and they said, "Oh,
`
`24· ·no, Boeing is there.· They've got a big program going
`
`25· ·on it."· But it didn't make sense to me.· And I had to
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 21 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· ·tell them it didn't make sense, but they said they were
`
`·2· ·working on it, and that's it.
`
`·3· · · · · · When the investigation started to develop,
`
`·4· ·they found that -- eventually, that it was a rudder
`
`·5· ·problem.· And the whole thing didn't make any sense to
`
`·6· ·me.
`
`·7· · · · · · Here's multiple fatal crashes and the system
`
`·8· ·didn't work right.· So that's -- so I said when I
`
`·9· ·retired, I never had any anybody die from me.· I've had
`
`10· ·people, all sorts of things, but never had -- so when I
`
`11· ·retired and they offered me a retirement package and
`
`12· ·everything like that, I thought when I get some time, I
`
`13· ·want to look into this whole thing of avionics.· I was
`
`14· ·always trained as a systems engineer.
`
`15· · · · · · And then sometime in '96, 1996, around -- I
`
`16· ·guess around June of 1996, I sat down and tried to
`
`17· ·think about what's going on here.
`
`18· · · · · · And then I came up to the conclusion, part of
`
`19· ·the thing is there was no data and they had no data.
`
`20· ·And they have flight recorders and -- that record data
`
`21· ·as well as a different one that record voice.· And I
`
`22· ·said the flight recorder should be on the ground,
`
`23· ·telemeter to the ground.· They should be -- if you want
`
`24· ·to keep a flight recorder on a plane, that's fine, but
`
`25· ·the data should be on the ground.· You shouldn't have
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 22 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· ·to look for flight recorders.
`
`·2· · · · · · So the first thing came out, and I put
`
`·3· ·together in this document here (indicating), a remote
`
`·4· ·flight recorder, which still is in existence right now.
`
`·5· ·There's no remote flight recorder.· To me, that's a
`
`·6· ·sin.
`
`·7· · · · · · But that said, the work here is really devoted
`
`·8· ·to this fellow Dave Garber.
`
`·9· · · · · · And I just spoke in Orange County at the
`
`10· ·American Institute of Aeronautical Engineers on
`
`11· ·something to prevent that type of stuff.
`
`12· · · · Q.· Was there ever a determination by the FAA that
`
`13· ·the rudder was the problem for that particular crash?
`
`14· · · · A.· Oh, yeah.· They fixed them.· 737 is a much
`
`15· ·safer plane.· It's pretty safe now.· But, meanwhile,
`
`16· ·there were several fatal crashes that -- at least a
`
`17· ·couple of them should have easily been prevented.· In
`
`18· ·my opinion.
`
`19· · · · Q.· Okay.· Let me ask you, with regard to the
`
`20· ·notes that are marked as Exhibit 2002, is this your
`
`21· ·handwriting?
`
`22· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`23· · · · Q.· And did you draw these figures that appear in
`
`24· ·this?
`
`25· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 23 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · Q.· And so if we look at the second page, up at
`
`·2· ·the top, there's a date of May 23rd, 1996.
`
`·3· · · · · · Do you see that?
`
`·4· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·5· · · · Q.· And was that the date at which you prepared
`
`·6· ·this figure?
`
`·7· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·8· · · · Q.· And if we go over to the following page.
`
`·9· · · · A.· I think the pages are out of order.· You'll
`
`10· ·see page numbers on the top, so what page number do you
`
`11· ·want to go on?
`
`12· · · · Q.· Oh, yeah, fair enough.
`
`13· · · · · · So this is -- so the next page in the document
`
`14· ·is -- looks like it's page 4?
`
`15· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`16· · · · Q.· And what's the date there?
`
`17· · · · A.· May 18th, 1996.
`
`18· · · · Q.· Okay.· And is that your name --
`
`19· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`20· · · · Q.· -- signed above that?
`
`21· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`22· · · · Q.· And the following page in the exhibit, which
`
`23· ·bears number 3, that's also May 18th, 1996?
`
`24· · · · A.· Correct.
`
`25· · · · Q.· And that's also your signature?
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 24 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`·2· · · · Q.· And turning to the next page in the exhibit,
`
`·3· ·which bears page 9, is that May 20th, 1996?
`
`·4· · · · A.· I think it's 28th, 1996.· I don't remember
`
`·5· ·what --
`
`·6· · · · Q.· And is that also the date for the following
`
`·7· ·page in the exhibit, which bears page number 7 in the
`
`·8· ·upper right corner?
`
`·9· · · · A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · · Q.· And also for the next page, which bears
`
`11· ·page 8?
`
`12· · · · A.· Correct.
`
`13· · · · Q.· And, lastly, also for the next page in the
`
`14· ·exhibit, which bears page 5?
`
`15· · · · A.· No, that says 5/27.
`
`16· · · · Q.· Oh, sorry.· Thank you.
`
`17· · · · A.· Is it all right if I take the document apart
`
`18· ·and put them in page order?· I could leave it the way
`
`19· ·it is if you tell me the page.
`
`20· · · · Q.· But, yeah, we can do that.· Why don't we -- I
`
`21· ·have an extra one.· Let me give it to you.· Leave that
`
`22· ·one as it is because that will be the already-marked
`
`23· ·exhibit.· We'll create a new exhibit.
`
`24· · · · · · Let's mark this 1043.
`
`25· · · · · · · · (The document referred to was
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 25 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · marked as Exhibit 1043.)
`
`·2· ·BY MR. DANE:
`
`·3· · · · Q.· Okay.· I'll hand you what's been marked as
`
`·4· ·1043, Mr. Levine.· I tried to put these in order.· And
`
`·5· ·you can look through to see if I've done that
`
`·6· ·correctly.· It looks like we're missing page 6, but,
`
`·7· ·otherwise, I think it should be in order.
`
`·8· · · · A.· Yes, it looks in order.
`
`·9· · · · Q.· Okay.· So in this May document prepared at
`
`10· ·various points in May of 1996, did you discuss anywhere
`
`11· ·as part of your invention the use of GPS data or
`
`12· ·inertial navigation of data?
`
`13· · · · A.· I think it's in here.
`
`14· · · · Q.· Okay.
`
`15· · · · A.· But it may not be easy for you to read.
`
`16· · · · Q.· If it is, if you could point it out.
`
`17· · · · A.· If you go to page 5, it says the sensors "S1
`
`18· ·to SN."· See it there?
`
`19· · · · Q.· No.
`
`20· · · · A.· Look at the picture, under "RFRT."
`
`21· · · · Q.· Okay.
`
`22· · · · A.· Okay.· That would include inertial data
`
`23· ·because of the sensors aboard the plane, the inertial
`
`24· ·is providing the roll, pitch, and heading, and position
`
`25· ·for the navigator for a commercial nav.
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 26 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · Then if you look at the bottom one, it says
`
`·2· ·"PI," aircraft position.· That's not a sensor on the
`
`·3· ·plane.· That's receiving information.· So that's where
`
`·4· ·what you'd call GPS would come in.
`
`·5· · · · · · Then if you go to the next page, page 7, on
`
`·6· ·the bottom, in the first paragraph to the bottom, it
`
`·7· ·says:
`
`·8· · · · · · · · "Position is used such as GPS
`
`·9· · · · · · global positioning satellite aircraft
`
`10· · · · · · frames acceptance" --
`
`11· · · · Q.· Excuse me.· I'm sorry.· I'm sorry.· If you
`
`12· ·could just slow down a second and direct me to where
`
`13· ·you're reading from?
`
`14· · · · A.· Go to the bottom of the paragraph, "when radio
`
`15· ·position is used."· Can you see it on the bottom?· Over
`
`16· ·here (indicating).
`
`17· · · · Q.· Oh, got it.· Okay.
`
`18· · · · A.· Okay.· So there it is.
`
`19· · · · · · And you got to remember that GPS has a lot of
`
`20· ·different names and it's really radio position
`
`21· ·satellite.· The Navy used to use Transit, which was a
`
`22· ·satellite nav system, and now there's a Russian system
`
`23· ·and a Chinese system and all that other stuff.· So it's
`
`24· ·a radio position thing I gave you such as GPS, which is
`
`25· ·another name for the same thing, and it gets really
`
`BOEING Exhibit 1043
`Page 27 of 161
`
`
`
`·1· ·high performance.· So there it is.
`
`·2· · · · · · So you could augment an inertial system with
`
`·3· ·external positioning, and on the B-2, it would be
`
`·4· ·stellar.· But on a commercial plane, it's got to be
`
`·5· ·radio position.· They don't use stellar.
`
`·6· · · · Q.· If we could go back to the page 7 that you've
`
`·7· ·started to read from.· Just for the record, if you
`
`·8· ·could read the whole sentence that begins "when radio
`
`·9· ·position is used."
`
`10· · · · A.· · · "When radio position is used,
`
`11· · · · · · such as in GPS, global positioning
`
`12· · · · · · satellite system, differential
`
`13· · · · · · actually provides exceedingly high
`
`14· · · · · · performance."
`
`15· · · · Q.· Okay.· Thank you for that.
`
`16· · · · · · Does this set of notes, the May 1996 notes, do
`
`17· ·they discuss the use of your invention in order to
`
`18· ·generate aircraft maintenance advice?
`
`19· · · · A.· I have to go read it more, but.
`
`20· · · · · · But -- it has maintenance advice in it, but I
`
`21· ·have to read it more.
`
`22· · ·
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