·1· ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`· · · · · · · ·_____________________
`·2
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·3· · · · · · ·_____________________
`
`·4· · ·WANGS ALLIANCE CORPORATION D/B/A WAC
`· · · · · · · · · ·LIGHTING CO.
`·5
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`·7
`· · · · · ·PHILIPS LIGHTING HOLDING, B.V.
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
`·9· · · · · · ·_____________________
`
`10· · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01292
`
`11· · · · ·U.S. Patent No. 6,586,890 B2
`· · · · · · · ·_____________________
`12
`
`13· · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`14· · · · · · ·REGAN A. ZANE, PH.D.
`
`15
`
`16· · · · · · Thursday, June 9, 2016
`
`17· · · · · · · · · ·9:09 a.m.
`
`18
`
`19· · · · FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`
`20· · · · · · GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`
`21· · · · · · · ·Two Seaport Lane
`
`22· · · · · · ·Boston, Massachusetts
`
`23
`
`24· · · · · Kristin M. Kelley, RPR, CRR
`
`WAC-1019
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·_____________________
`·2
`· · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`·3· · · · · · ·_____________________
`
`·4· · ·WANGS ALLIANCE CORPORATION D/B/A WAC
`· · · · · · · · · ·LIGHTING CO.
`·5
`· · · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner
`·6
`· · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`·7
`· · · · · ·PHILIPS LIGHTING HOLDING, B.V.
`·8
`· · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
`·9· · · · · · ·_____________________
`
`10· · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01292
`
`11· · · · ·U.S. Patent No. 6,586,890 B2
`· · · · · · · ·_____________________
`12
`
`13· · · · · ·VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`14· · · · · · ·REGAN A. ZANE, PH.D.
`
`15
`
`16· · · · · · Thursday, June 9, 2016
`
`17· · · · · · · · · ·9:09 a.m.
`
`18
`
`19· · · · FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`
`20· · · · · · GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`
`21· · · · · · · ·Two Seaport Lane
`
`22· · · · · · ·Boston, Massachusetts
`
`23
`
`24· · · · · Kristin M. Kelley, RPR, CRR
`
`WAC-1019
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
`·2· ·On Behalf of the Petitioner(s):
`
`·3· · By: Joseph Mercadante, Esquire and
`
`·4· · Tigran Vardanian, Esquire
`
`·5· · RADULESCU, LLP
`
`·6· · The Empire State Building
`
`·7· · 350 Fifth Avenue, Suite 6910
`
`·8· · New York, New York 10118
`
`·9· · 646.502.5848 joseph@radulescullp.com
`
`10· · tigran@radulescullp.com
`
`11
`
`12· ·On Behalf of the Patent Owner:
`
`13· · By: Mandy J. Song, Ph.D., Esquire and
`
`14· · Brandon C. Rash, Esquire
`
`15· · FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`
`16· · GARRET & DUNNER, LLP
`
`17· · 901 New York Avenue, NW
`
`18· · Washington, DC 20001-4413
`
`19· · 202.408.4475 mandy.song@finnegan.com
`
`20· · brandon.rash@finnegan.com
`
`21
`
`22· · ALSO PRESENT:
`
`23· · · · ·David Woodford, Videographer
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
`
`·2
`
`·3· ·DEPOSITION OF:· · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`
`·4· ·REGAN A. ZANE, PH.D.
`
`·5· ·Examination by Mr. Mercadante· · · 5, 176
`
`·6· ·Examination by Ms. Song· · · · · · · ·166
`
`·7
`
`·8
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · · ·NONE
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · ·P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`·2· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· This is tape
`
`·3· ·number one to the videotaped deposition of
`
`·4· ·Regan Zane, Ph.D.· This is in the matter of
`
`·5· ·Wangs Alliance Corporation d/b/a WAC
`
`·6· ·Lighting Company versus Philips Lighting
`
`·7· ·Holding, B.V.· This is being heard before
`
`·8· ·the United States Patent and Trademark
`
`·9· ·Office before the Patent Trial and Appeal
`
`10· ·Board.· Case IPR is 2015-01292, Patent
`
`11· ·Number 6,586,890 B2.
`
`12· · · · ·This deposition is being held at the
`
`13· ·firm of Finnegan Henderson Farabow Garret &
`
`14· ·Dunner at 2 Seaport Lane, Boston,
`
`15· ·Massachusetts on June 9, 2016, beginning at
`
`16· ·9:09 a.m.
`
`17· · · · ·My name is David Woodford.· I'm the
`
`18· ·videographer, and the court reporter is
`
`19· ·Kristin Kelley, both here on behalf of
`
`20· ·Esquire Deposition Solutions.
`
`21· · · · ·Will counsel present please introduce
`
`22· ·yourselves and affiliations and the witness
`
`23· ·will we sworn.
`
`24· · · · · · MR. MERCADANTE:· Joseph Mercadante
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·from Radulescu, LLP.· With me is my
`
`·2· · · ·colleague Tigran Vardanian from the same
`
`·3· · · ·firm.
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Mandy Song from the law
`
`·5· · · ·firm of Finnegan here on behalf of Patent
`
`·6· · · ·Owner Philips and also on behalf of the
`
`·7· · · ·witness.· And here with me is my colleague
`
`·8· · · ·Brandon Rash.
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · *· * *
`
`10· · · · · · · · · REGAN A. ZANE, PH.D., a witness
`
`11· · · ·called for examination by counsel for the
`
`12· · · ·Petitioner, having been satisfactorily
`
`13· · · ·identified by the reporter, being first
`
`14· · · ·sworn by the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`15· · · ·testified as follows:
`
`16· · · · · · · · · · · · ·*· * *
`
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`
`18· · · ·BY MR. MERCADANTE:
`
`19· ·Q.· Good morning, Mr. Zane.
`
`20· ·A.· Good morning.
`
`21· ·Q.· How are you?
`
`22· ·A.· I'm good.· Thank you.
`
`23· ·Q.· I understand you've had your deposition
`
`24· · · ·taken before, is that correct?
`
`
`
`·1· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·2· ·Q.· Okay.· So I'll just rehash the ground rules
`
`·3· · · ·a little bit, if that's okay with you.
`
`·4· ·A.· Yes.
`
`·5· ·Q.· So I'll be asking you questions and you'll
`
`·6· · · ·be providing me with the answers.· From time
`
`·7· · · ·to time your attorney may object.· If
`
`·8· · · ·there's an objection, you still have to
`
`·9· · · ·answer the question unless you're
`
`10· · · ·specifically instructed not to answer.· Is
`
`11· · · ·that clear?
`
`12· ·A.· Yes.
`
`13· ·Q.· If you provide me with an answer to a
`
`14· · · ·question, I'll presume you understood it.
`
`15· · · ·If you don't understand something in my
`
`16· · · ·question, if it's unclear, feel free to ask
`
`17· · · ·me to clarify it.· Okay?
`
`18· ·A.· Yes.
`
`19· ·Q.· One thing I noticed when reviewing our
`
`20· · · ·transcript from the deposition earlier this
`
`21· · · ·week is that you and I sort of spoke over
`
`22· · · ·each other a little bit on a couple of
`
`23· · · ·different occasions.· So I'll ask that after
`
`24· · · ·you -- after I finish my question, just
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·please pause so that you don't cut off the
`
`·2· · · ·end of my question.· And, similarly, I'll
`
`·3· · · ·try not to cut off your answers.· Is that
`
`·4· · · ·okay?
`
`·5· ·A.· I think we're in agreement.
`
`·6· ·Q.· Okay.· Doctor Zane, what did you do to
`
`·7· · · ·prepare for this deposition today?
`
`·8· ·A.· I spent some time over the weekend reviewing
`
`·9· · · ·materials.· I also spent time yesterday with
`
`10· · · ·attorneys that are here present.
`
`11· ·Q.· Did you meet with anyone else?
`
`12· ·A.· I did not.
`
`13· ·Q.· About how long did you take?
`
`14· ·A.· I don't know the hours but on the order of a
`
`15· · · ·day over the weekend and most of the day
`
`16· · · ·yesterday.
`
`17· ·Q.· And you submitted a declaration in this
`
`18· · · ·proceeding, is that correct?
`
`19· ·A.· Yes.
`
`20· ·Q.· I'm going to hand you what's been marked as
`
`21· · · ·Philips Exhibit 2006.· Is this the
`
`22· · · ·declaration we just spoke about?
`
`23· ·A.· This is.
`
`24· ·Q.· And I'd like to point you to page 7 of this
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·declaration, specifically starting at
`
`·2· · · ·paragraph 20, the section on the person of
`
`·3· · · ·ordinary skill in the art.· Do you see that?
`
`·4· ·A.· I do.
`
`·5· ·Q.· Are there any differences between the person
`
`·6· · · ·of ordinary skill in the art in this
`
`·7· · · ·declaration and the person of ordinary skill
`
`·8· · · ·in the art in the two declarations that you
`
`·9· · · ·submitted that we spoke about in your
`
`10· · · ·earlier deposition?
`
`11· ·A.· I don't recall but I believe they're
`
`12· · · ·substantially similar.
`
`13· ·Q.· Okay.· And similarly to -- strike that.
`
`14· · · · · · ·At the end of paragraph 21, you state
`
`15· · · ·that, in your opinion, "the level of skill
`
`16· · · ·of a person of ordinary skill in the art
`
`17· · · ·defined by Mr. Tingler is lower than the
`
`18· · · ·level of skill required to be aware of all
`
`19· · · ·pertinent art and to think in light of the
`
`20· · · ·conventional wisdom of the art (sic) -- in
`
`21· · · ·the art".· Do you see that?
`
`22· ·A.· I see that.
`
`23· ·Q.· So, generally speaking, would it be fair to
`
`24· · · ·say your person of ordinary skill in the art
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·is, has a higher skill than Mr. Tingler's?
`
`·2· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·3· ·Q.· And then, in paragraph 22, you state that
`
`·4· · · ·regardless of whether you apply
`
`·5· · · ·Mr. Tingler's person of ordinary skill in
`
`·6· · · ·the art or your person of ordinary skill in
`
`·7· · · ·the art, your analysis and conclusions would
`
`·8· · · ·not change, is that correct?
`
`·9· ·A.· That's correct.· I believe applying either
`
`10· · · ·standard I come to the same conclusions.
`
`11· ·Q.· And so in your declaration did you
`
`12· · · ·specifically apply one person of ordinary
`
`13· · · ·skill in the art or the other person of
`
`14· · · ·ordinary skill in the art in reaching your
`
`15· · · ·conclusions?
`
`16· ·A.· I considered both in reaching my conclusions
`
`17· · · ·and in each case found that the skill from
`
`18· · · ·either the version that I had put in or the
`
`19· · · ·version from Mr. Tingler would give me the
`
`20· · · ·same conclusion.
`
`21· ·Q.· I also noticed that there's no materials
`
`22· · · ·considered list attached to this
`
`23· · · ·declaration.· What materials did you
`
`24· · · ·consider in forming your opinions?
`
`
`
`·1· ·A.· I considered all the materials that are
`
`·2· · · ·cited in my declaration.· I also considered
`
`·3· · · ·the institution of the Board and, as far as
`
`·4· · · ·I'm aware, I believe that is all the
`
`·5· · · ·material.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·So, briefly summarizing, certainly
`
`·7· · · ·that includes the claimed prior art that
`
`·8· · · ·we'll be discussing, I presume, today, the
`
`·9· · · ·deposition and the declarations by
`
`10· · · ·Mr. Tingler and, as well as the prosecution
`
`11· · · ·history for the '890 patent.
`
`12· ·Q.· When you say the '890 patent, you're
`
`13· · · ·referring to the patent that's at issue in
`
`14· · · ·this proceeding that's 6,586,890?
`
`15· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`16· ·Q.· You said you reviewed the deposition of
`
`17· · · ·Mr. Tingler.· Do you mean the transcript of
`
`18· · · ·that deposition or were you present there?
`
`19· ·A.· I was not present to the deposition and I
`
`20· · · ·have looked through the transcript of that
`
`21· · · ·deposition.
`
`22· ·Q.· Okay.· And are you aware of a rehearing
`
`23· · · ·request that was filed in this action?
`
`24· ·A.· I am.
`
`
`
`·1· ·Q.· And there was a decision on that rehearing
`
`·2· · · ·request, correct?
`
`·3· ·A.· That is correct.· So I'm familiar with both
`
`·4· · · ·decisions from the Board.
`
`·5· ·Q.· And you reviewed the rehearing request as
`
`·6· · · ·well.· Is that the second decision from the
`
`·7· · · ·Board?
`
`·8· ·A.· That's correct.
`
`·9· ·Q.· I'd like to hand you the Board's institution
`
`10· · · ·decision.· Do you recognize this document?
`
`11· ·A.· I do.
`
`12· ·Q.· Could you flip to page 6 of this document,
`
`13· · · ·please.
`
`14· ·A.· Yes.
`
`15· ·Q.· There's a section on claim construction
`
`16· · · ·there, is that correct?
`
`17· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`18· ·Q.· Did the Board issue any claim constructions
`
`19· · · ·in this decision?
`
`20· ·A.· The Board did.
`
`21· ·Q.· And what claim term did the Board construe?
`
`22· ·A.· The Board construed the term "means for
`
`23· · · ·supplying power responsive to the drive
`
`24· · · ·signal, said power supplying means supplying
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·current to the LED array" from Claim 7.
`
`·2· · · ·This is on page 7.
`
`·3· ·Q.· And no other claim terms were construed,
`
`·4· · · ·correct?
`
`·5· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·6· ·Q.· What construction did the board apply to
`
`·7· · · ·that claim term you just read from Claim 7?
`
`·8· ·A.· This is a means plus function construction.
`
`·9· · · ·And if you're asking what was the decision,
`
`10· · · ·they construed the term which we already
`
`11· · · ·read.· The function I believe was
`
`12· · · ·undisputed.· The function associated with
`
`13· · · ·this term is as listed.· And the structure
`
`14· · · ·is as is described in the specification.
`
`15· · · ·They state here "the structure associated
`
`16· · · ·with this function as described in the
`
`17· · · ·specification are in an enumerated list of
`
`18· · · ·DC-DC converters including a buck/boost
`
`19· · · ·power supply or dot dot dot a boost buck and
`
`20· · · ·flyback converter".
`
`21· ·Q.· Thank you, Doctor Zane.· And your
`
`22· · · ·declaration in this action only relates to
`
`23· · · ·two claims, is that correct?
`
`24· ·A.· As I understand it, and as I summarize in
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·the introduction to my declaration --
`
`·2· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form to the
`
`·3· · · ·last question.
`
`·4· ·A.· So I understand, as I highlight in my
`
`·5· · · ·introduction to declaration, I believe there
`
`·6· · · ·were three grounds in this case in the
`
`·7· · · ·declaration, as I've stated here.· I've been
`
`·8· · · ·asked to offer opinions associated with
`
`·9· · · ·ground three.· And here I'm referring to
`
`10· · · ·page 2 on my declaration.· And so this is
`
`11· · · ·with respect to Claim 7 and 31, recognizing
`
`12· · · ·that Claim 31 is dependent on Claim 23. I
`
`13· · · ·understand that the disputed claims in the
`
`14· · · ·case for 7, 15, 23, and 31, I've considered
`
`15· · · ·all of these claims but the formal opinions
`
`16· · · ·I've listed in the declaration are to
`
`17· · · ·Claim 7 and 31 and the associated dependency
`
`18· · · ·to Claim 23.
`
`19· ·Q.· So you don't have any opinions on whether
`
`20· · · ·claims 15 and 23 are valid, is that correct?
`
`21· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`22· ·A.· So I haven't been asked to consider validity
`
`23· · · ·of claims, particularly Claims 15 and 23. I
`
`24· · · ·specifically looked at the arguments made by
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·WAC and more particularly the arguments made
`
`·2· · · ·by Mr. Tingler depending on claim --
`
`·3· · · ·Mr. Tingler's arguments related to claims 7
`
`·4· · · ·and 31 and the associated dependency on
`
`·5· · · ·Claim 23.· I do have opinions on claims 15
`
`·6· · · ·and 23 and I've reviewed them and understand
`
`·7· · · ·them, for example, but I was not asked
`
`·8· · · ·specifically to state my, to opine on those
`
`·9· · · ·in my declaration.
`
`10· ·Q.· So your declaration only focused -- strike
`
`11· · · ·that.
`
`12· · · · · · ·So your declaration only includes
`
`13· · · ·opinions on the obviousness of claims 7 and
`
`14· · · ·31, is that correct?
`
`15· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`16· ·A.· So the declaration is specific to claims --
`
`17· · · ·with regard to the opinions that I've
`
`18· · · ·provided with regard to obviousness, that is
`
`19· · · ·associated with Claims 7 and 31 and the
`
`20· · · ·associated dependency to Claim 23.· The
`
`21· · · ·overall description as well as my arguments
`
`22· · · ·particularly with regard to Claim 7 I
`
`23· · · ·believe apply similarly to Claims 15 and 23,
`
`24· · · ·but my declaration does not look at
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·obviousness for those claims.
`
`·2· ·Q.· You mentioned the word dependency a few
`
`·3· · · ·times in the last couple answers.· Can you
`
`·4· · · ·explain to me what that means to you.
`
`·5· ·A.· Claim 23 is an independent claim and
`
`·6· · · ·Claim 31 is a dependent claim.· So what I
`
`·7· · · ·meant by that is that Claim 31 is dependent
`
`·8· · · ·on Claim 23 and has the same limitations
`
`·9· · · ·brought into it from Claim 23.
`
`10· ·Q.· So Claim 31 includes all of the limitations
`
`11· · · ·of Claim 23, is that fair?
`
`12· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`13· ·A.· As I understand -- as I understand it,
`
`14· · · ·Claim 31 includes all the limitations of
`
`15· · · ·Claim 23.
`
`16· ·Q.· Now I'd like to hand you the patent that's
`
`17· · · ·the subject of this proceeding, U.S. Patent
`
`18· · · ·No. 6,586,890, which I believe we've
`
`19· · · ·referred to as the '890 patent.· Do you
`
`20· · · ·recognize this document?
`
`21· ·A.· I do.
`
`22· ·Q.· Is there a stated goal of the '890 patent?
`
`23· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`24· ·A.· The '890 patent highlights the technical
`
`
`
`·1· ·field that it's operating in and provides a
`
`·2· ·background highlighting the problems being
`
`·3· ·addressed and provides a summary of the
`
`·4· ·invention.· The -- looking across these
`
`·5· ·three components, I would recognize the goal
`
`·6· ·of the '890 patent to be as listed, which is
`
`·7· ·to provide the improvements and the benefits
`
`·8· ·that are stated, for example, in the
`
`·9· ·summary.
`
`10· · · · ·Looking here in column one around
`
`11· ·line 39, one aspect of the present invention
`
`12· ·provides a driver circuit for LEDs with good
`
`13· ·regulation and efficiency.
`
`14· · · · ·With regard to good regulation, it's
`
`15· ·referring back to the background section
`
`16· ·stating that other solutions, such as
`
`17· ·resistor limit biassing current limiting
`
`18· ·resistors do not provide sufficient
`
`19· ·regulation for long life and reliable
`
`20· ·operation of LEDs.
`
`21· · · · ·And efficiency because linear current
`
`22· ·regulators and current limiting resistors
`
`23· ·and similar prior art solutions do not
`
`24· ·provide sufficient efficiency.
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·So the aspect listed in the paragraph
`
`·2· · · ·after that, another aspect of the present
`
`·3· · · ·invention provides a driver circuit for LEDs
`
`·4· · · ·maintaining operation at the LEDs nominal
`
`·5· · · ·current.
`
`·6· · · · · · ·So, in summary, I would look at the
`
`·7· · · ·goal of this as improving regulation and
`
`·8· · · ·efficiency by developing a driver of a power
`
`·9· · · ·supply circuit that maintains operation of
`
`10· · · ·LEDs at their nominal current when the LEDs
`
`11· · · ·are on.
`
`12· ·Q.· And what problems does the '890 patent --
`
`13· · · ·strike that.
`
`14· · · · · · ·What problems were the inventors of
`
`15· · · ·the '890 patent trying to solve?
`
`16· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`17· ·A.· What I understand looking at the background
`
`18· · · ·of the invention and also understanding the
`
`19· · · ·solution that is presented is that the prior
`
`20· · · ·art and background listed is that changes in
`
`21· · · ·voltage applied to LEDs cause appreciable
`
`22· · · ·change in current to the LED when it is on,
`
`23· · · ·and so to address that the goal is to
`
`24· · · ·regulate the current in the LED when it is
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·on so that the light output is proportional
`
`·2· · · ·to the LED current and is preferred to
`
`·3· · · ·operate with a current source.
`
`·4· · · · · · ·So here I'm reading from column one,
`
`·5· · · ·line 21.· So it's preferred to drive the LED
`
`·6· · · ·with a current source.· At present, LED
`
`·7· · · ·drivers operate with voltage source outputs
`
`·8· · · ·or with, for example, using current limiting
`
`·9· · · ·resistors and linear current regulators.· So
`
`10· · · ·the desire is to improve on each of these
`
`11· · · ·and the result, as I was stating in the
`
`12· · · ·summary, in good regulation, efficiency, and
`
`13· · · ·to operate the LED at its nominal operating
`
`14· · · ·current.
`
`15· ·Q.· So a change in voltage results in a change
`
`16· · · ·in current, is that fair?
`
`17· ·A.· So in speaking --
`
`18· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`19· ·A.· When speaking of an LED, the voltage applied
`
`20· · · ·to an LED has a very sharp characteristic to
`
`21· · · ·the current in the LED.· So it's desirable
`
`22· · · ·as stated to operate the LED from a current
`
`23· · · ·source so that you can better regulate or
`
`24· · · ·better control the current in the LED.
`
`
`
`·1· ·Q.· You didn't really answer my question.· Does
`
`·2· · · ·a change in voltage result in a change in
`
`·3· · · ·current in an LED?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.· I'll
`
`·5· · · ·let you finish.
`
`·6· ·A.· I believe I did answer the question.· I also
`
`·7· · · ·emphasize the reason this is important in an
`
`·8· · · ·LED is not only does a change in voltage
`
`·9· · · ·result in a change in current but, unlike
`
`10· · · ·other loads, a change in voltage results in
`
`11· · · ·a substantially larger change in current
`
`12· · · ·than you would get with a linear device.
`
`13· ·Q.· And that's what you meant when you said a
`
`14· · · ·very sharp characteristic?
`
`15· ·A.· That is what I meant.
`
`16· ·Q.· What do you mean when you use the term
`
`17· · · ·characteristic?
`
`18· ·A.· When I speak of a characteristic, what I
`
`19· · · ·mean here is the relationship between
`
`20· · · ·current and voltage for the LED.
`
`21· ·Q.· You mentioned a current limiting resistor in
`
`22· · · ·the prior art to the '890.· What does a
`
`23· · · ·current limiting resistor mean to you?
`
`24· ·A.· The phrase is what I read out of the
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·specification, and I would understand that
`
`·2· · · ·phrase to mean having a resistor in series
`
`·3· · · ·with the LED, a resistor that has sufficient
`
`·4· · · ·size or value so that when a voltage changes
`
`·5· · · ·across the combined resistor and LED that
`
`·6· · · ·that resistor would dominate the change in
`
`·7· · · ·current.
`
`·8· ·Q.· What do you mean when you say dominant?
`
`·9· ·A.· So with the series combination now -- we
`
`10· · · ·talked about characteristic a moment ago.
`
`11· · · ·Another term would be impedence or overall
`
`12· · · ·effect.· With a series combination, now when
`
`13· · · ·you change the voltage across that combined
`
`14· · · ·effect of the diode or the LED diode and the
`
`15· · · ·resistor, when you change the voltage, the
`
`16· · · ·question is how much will the current
`
`17· · · ·change.· If the resistor has a sufficiently
`
`18· · · ·high value, the resistor will dominate the
`
`19· · · ·decision on how much current changes there
`
`20· · · ·when you change the voltage.
`
`21· ·Q.· Could you please look at paragraph 23 of
`
`22· · · ·your declaration.· And in this paragraph you
`
`23· · · ·cite to those two aspects of the '890
`
`24· · · ·invention that we just spoke about earlier
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·from the summary of invention section,
`
`·2· · · ·correct?
`
`·3· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·4· ·Q.· One is providing a driver circuit for LEDs
`
`·5· · · ·with good regulation and efficiency, right?
`
`·6· ·A.· So look here in paragraph 23.· I requote
`
`·7· · · ·that section again from column one, lines 39
`
`·8· · · ·through 40, of the '890.
`
`·9· ·Q.· And then you also requote, that's the next
`
`10· · · ·section, which states that it provides a
`
`11· · · ·driver circuit for LEDs maintaining
`
`12· · · ·operation at the LED's nominal current,
`
`13· · · ·correct?
`
`14· ·A.· That is correct.· So I restate these in this
`
`15· · · ·lines 41 through 43 of column one.
`
`16· ·Q.· So I'd like to talk about the first one
`
`17· · · ·first, good regulation and efficiency.· What
`
`18· · · ·does the word regulation mean in this
`
`19· · · ·context?
`
`20· ·A.· So in this context the '890 patent is
`
`21· · · ·discussing what was stated in the background
`
`22· · · ·section that we also just read stating
`
`23· · · ·specifically that it was desirable to
`
`24· · · ·operate the LED current at its nominal
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·current, already known and controlled
`
`·2· · · ·current.· This was with relation to having
`
`·3· · · ·reliable operation, long life and good
`
`·4· · · ·expectation for the light output.· So, in
`
`·5· · · ·this regard, regulation is speaking
`
`·6· · · ·specifically to controlling and regulating
`
`·7· · · ·the current in the LED whether it is on so
`
`·8· · · ·that it can be held at the nominal current
`
`·9· · · ·for the LED.
`
`10· · · · · · ·Good regulation I would recognize as
`
`11· · · ·being regulation that can withstand changes
`
`12· · · ·in the total voltage applied to the circuit,
`
`13· · · ·meaning any variations in the power supply
`
`14· · · ·supplying the overall circuit and the
`
`15· · · ·ambient temperature, any other disturbances
`
`16· · · ·in the system.· Good regulation means we can
`
`17· · · ·maintain the LED when it is on at the
`
`18· · · ·desirable nominal current.
`
`19· ·Q.· So when just the word regulation is used --
`
`20· · · ·strike that.
`
`21· · · · · · ·What's the difference between current
`
`22· · · ·regulation and voltage regulation?
`
`23· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`24· ·A.· So that's a very broad question.· As far as
`
`
`
`·1· ·difference between voltage regulation and
`
`·2· ·current regulation in both cases would
`
`·3· ·require some context.· If we're referring
`
`·4· ·specifically to regulation let's say, for
`
`·5· ·example, of a power supply, and if we're
`
`·6· ·referring to let's say output regulation,
`
`·7· ·then voltage regulation would require
`
`·8· ·sensing of that output voltage and
`
`·9· ·regulation of that voltage again with regard
`
`10· ·to some type of variation.· A given
`
`11· ·application would have different types of
`
`12· ·variations that you would be trying to
`
`13· ·regulate against.
`
`14· · · · ·Current regulation, similarly, would
`
`15· ·have to understand what are we talking about
`
`16· ·in terms of what is being regulated and the
`
`17· ·meaning of that regulation.· It's clear to
`
`18· ·me in the context of the '890 when we talk
`
`19· ·about current regulation, and in this case
`
`20· ·that is what is meant by regulation, we're
`
`21· ·talking about regulation in this case of the
`
`22· ·output current of the power supply to
`
`23· ·regulate the current in the LED when it's
`
`24· ·operating to the nominal operating current.
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · ·There are many forms of regulation.
`
`·2· · · ·For example, in this, in this case there's
`
`·3· · · ·at least three different forms of current
`
`·4· · · ·operation and two forms of current
`
`·5· · · ·regulation.· So in describing the difference
`
`·6· · · ·between current and voltage, you know, this
`
`·7· · · ·is quite a broad, quite a broad question.
`
`·8· ·Q.· So is it fair to say that current regulation
`
`·9· · · ·regulates current and voltage regulation
`
`10· · · ·regulates voltage?
`
`11· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`12· ·A.· So, again, the differences -- and I'd rather
`
`13· · · ·talk about a specific example of what we're
`
`14· · · ·looking at.· There are different cases of
`
`15· · · ·how current regulation would perform.· There
`
`16· · · ·are different cases of how voltage
`
`17· · · ·regulation would perform.· In general, the
`
`18· · · ·terms obviously would be related to a
`
`19· · · ·voltage for voltage regulation and related
`
`20· · · ·to regulating for voltage regulation.
`
`21· · · · · · ·For current regulation, it's certainly
`
`22· · · ·going to be related to a current.· For
`
`23· · · ·current regulation, is going to be related
`
`24· · · ·to regulation, some type of variation when
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·we talk about regulation.
`
`·2· · · · · · · · (Reporter interruption.)
`
`·3· ·A.· -- the voltage regulation would certainly be
`
`·4· · · ·related to a voltage.· It would certainly be
`
`·5· · · ·related to regulation of a voltage due to
`
`·6· · · ·some type of variability.· With current
`
`·7· · · ·regulation, it would certainly be related to
`
`·8· · · ·a current, certainly be related to some form
`
`·9· · · ·of regulation of that current.· And, again,
`
`10· · · ·there would be some type of variability that
`
`11· · · ·you're trying to regulate against otherwise
`
`12· · · ·there would be no form or no meaning to
`
`13· · · ·regulation.
`
`14· · · · · · ·As I stated in this case, for example,
`
`15· · · ·there are multiple types of regulation.· For
`
`16· · · ·example, when we talk about current
`
`17· · · ·regulation, the '890 that we've just been
`
`18· · · ·talking about, when it is stating good
`
`19· · · ·regulation, we're speaking about regulation
`
`20· · · ·of the output current of the power supply
`
`21· · · ·for regulating the LED current to its
`
`22· · · ·nominal value or to a desired value when
`
`23· · · ·that LED is operating.
`
`24· · · · · · ·For the -- we'll be introducing at
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·least two other examples of current behavior
`
`·2· · · ·in this case.· The Biebl, for example -- do
`
`·3· · · ·you want to bring in the patent number for
`
`·4· · · ·Biebl?· We'll do that as I conclude?
`
`·5· ·Q.· We'll do that in a little bit.· We're going
`
`·6· · · ·a little off topic from my question here.
`
`·7· · · ·My question was is it fair to say that
`
`·8· · · ·current regulation regulates current and
`
`·9· · · ·voltage regulation regulates voltage? I
`
`10· · · ·think that should be an easy answer.
`
`11· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`12· ·A.· So I believe I answered the question.· What
`
`13· · · ·I'm emphasizing is there are many types of
`
`14· · · ·regulation and I think there's some over
`
`15· · · ·simplification that is possible.· So I would
`
`16· · · ·like to emphasize when we talk about current
`
`17· · · ·regulation, I've certainly said it can be
`
`18· · · ·regulated to a current and be regulating a
`
`19· · · ·current in that form, but when we talk --
`
`20· · · ·it's a very broad realm of current
`
`21· · · ·regulation with different types of currents
`
`22· · · ·when they regulate.· Similarly, there's a
`
`23· · · ·wide range of voltage regulation depending
`
`24· · · ·on what the voltage is meaning.· What the
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·behavior is, what you're regulating against,
`
`·2· · · ·would all have different behavior.
`
`·3· ·Q.· So is the answer to my question yes?
`
`·4· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`·5· ·A.· So I believe your answer is what's the
`
`·6· · · ·difference between current and voltage
`
`·7· · · ·regulation?
`
`·8· ·Q.· My question is what's the difference.· My
`
`·9· · · ·question is is there a difference.
`
`10· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`11· ·A.· There's clearly a difference between voltage
`
`12· · · ·and current regulation.
`
`13· ·Q.· And I'd like to talk to you about this
`
`14· · · ·figure that's at the bottom of page 9 of
`
`15· · · ·your declaration.
`
`16· ·A.· Yes.
`
`17· ·Q.· This is Figure 1 from the '890 patent,
`
`18· · · ·right?
`
`19· ·A.· That is correct.
`
`20· ·Q.· Would you call this figure a circuit
`
`21· · · ·schematic?
`
`22· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`23· ·A.· This figure is a functional diagram that
`
`24· · · ·would relate to a circuit schematic.
`
`
`
`·1· ·Q.· And this doesn't -- strike that.
`
`·2· · · · · · ·Do you see the two boxes in the upper
`
`·3· · · ·left side of this figure labeled 50 and 66?
`
`·4· ·A.· I do.· I see boxes labeled 50 and 66 labeled
`
`·5· · · ·tail and stop, respectively.
`
`·6· ·Q.· What do the terms tail and stop mean in the
`
`·7· · · ·context of this patent?
`
`·8· ·A.· In the context of this patent, these are
`
`·9· · · ·describing inputs to the power supply that
`
`10· · · ·indicate a desire to operate the lighting
`
`11· · · ·devices, in this case LEDs.· The term tail
`
`12· · · ·and stop in this case would refer to
`
`13· · · ·particular lights on a vehicle, so tail,
`
`14· · · ·taillight and stop light.
`
`15· ·Q.· Box 60 is labeled "I SENSE".· Do you see
`
`16· · · ·that?
`
`17· ·A.· I see that.
`
`18· ·Q.· What's your understanding of what that box
`
`19· · · ·represents?
`
`20· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`21· ·A.· In the context of this patent and the
`
`22· · · ·description around Figure 1, my
`
`23· · · ·understanding is the box labeled 60, I
`
`24· · · ·SENSE, refers to a -- refers to sensing the
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·output current of the power supply that is
`
`·2· · · ·directly the current in the LED when the LED
`
`·3· · · ·is operating.· This is how the patent is
`
`·4· · · ·able to sense, the concept of sensing the
`
`·5· · · ·LED current for providing a signal related
`
`·6· · · ·to the current in the LED.
`
`·7· ·Q.· Is a square or rectangle a known circuit
`
`·8· · · ·schematic for current sensor?
`
`·9· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`10· ·A.· I don't even know how to answer that
`
`11· · · ·question, even in what context.· If you're
`
`12· · · ·asking with regard to Figure 1, as I said,
`
`13· · · ·Figure 1 is a functional diagram stating I
`
`14· · · ·SENSE labeled 60.· This is described, I
`
`15· · · ·believe, in sufficient detail in the
`
`16· · · ·specification as a current sensing, sensing
`
`17· · · ·the output current of the power supply and
`
`18· · · ·the LED current and, further, schematics are
`
`19· · · ·given as examples of what this Item 60 would
`
`20· · · ·be.
`
`21· ·Q.· So if that Box 60 weren't labeled and
`
`22· · · ·weren't described as a current sensor, you
`
`23· · · ·wouldn't have any reason to believe it was a
`
`24· · · ·current sensor, is that correct?
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`·2· ·A.· So if you're asking if there was a box here
`
`·3· · · ·with no label and no description, I would
`
`·4· · · ·have no idea what that box is for.
`
`·5· ·Q.· Okay.· And if there's a squiggly line in the
`
`·6· · · ·circuit diagram, what would that indicate to
`
`·7· · · ·you?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`·9· ·A.· I don't understand the context.· Do you have
`
`10· · · ·an example?
`
`11· ·Q.· Sure.· Let's look at the next page, page 11,
`
`12· · · ·of your declaration.· I guess it's two
`
`13· · · ·pages.
`
`14· ·A.· Okay.
`
`15· ·Q.· On the top do you see Figure 2A?
`
`16· ·A.· I do.
`
`17· ·Q.· And on the left side connected below the box
`
`18· · · ·labeled "turn", do you see a circuit element
`
`19· · · ·labeled 110?· It's also R2B1.
`
`20· ·A.· I do.
`
`21· ·Q.· What is your understanding of what that
`
`22· · · ·circuit element is?
`
`23· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`24· ·A.· So in the context of a circuit schematic
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·such as this, the item labeled 110 I would
`
`·2· · · ·recognize as a resistor.
`
`·3· ·Q.· And that's because it's a squiggly line,
`
`·4· · · ·right?
`
`·5· ·A.· If we call that a squiggly line, yes.
`
`·6· ·Q.· That's a known circuit schematic that's used
`
`·7· · · ·for representing a resistor, right?
`
`·8· · · · · · · · MS. SONG:· Objection to form.
`
`·9· ·A.· The symbol shown for Item 110 in Figure 2A I
`
`10· · · ·would recognize as a resistor.
`
`11· ·Q.· And, similarly, just below that there's a
`
`12· · · ·different type of symbol that's labeled D1B.
`
`13· · · ·Do you see that?
`
`14· ·A.· I do.
`
`15· ·Q.· That's diode, is it not?
`
`16· ·A.· I would recognize this as the symbol for a
`
`17· · · ·diode.
`
`18· ·Q.· A
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
