·1· · · · · UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`·3· · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4· · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`·5· · · · · · · ROBERT BOSCH LLC and DAIMLER AG,
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · Petitioners,
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`·7· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
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`·8· · · · · · · · ·ORBITAL AUSTRALIA PTY LTD,
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
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`10· · · · · · · · ____________________________
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`11· · · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01254
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`12· · · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01255
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`13· · · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01256
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`14· · · · · · · · · · U.S. Patent 6,923,387
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`15
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`16· · · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01258
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`17· · · · · · · · · ·Case No. IPR2015-01259
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`18· · · · · · · · · · U.S. Patent 5,655,365
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`19
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`20· · · · Deposition of RONALD DOUGLAS MATTHEWS, PH.D.
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`21· · · · · · · · · · · Washington, D.C.
`· · · · · · · · · · Thursday, March 17, 2016
`22· · · · · · · · · · · · · 9:23 a.m.
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`23· ·Job No. BO-078833
`· · ·Pages 1 - 201
`24· ·Reported by:· Karen Young
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`Ex. 2006 1/83
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`Page 2
`·1· · · · · · · ·Deposition of RONALD DOUGLAS MATTHEWS,
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`·1
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`Page 4
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`·2· ·PH.D., held at the offices of:
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`·2· · · · · · · · · ·C· O· N· T· E· N· T S
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`·3· · · · · · · ·FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
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`·3· ·EXAMINATION OF RONALD DOUGLAS MATTHEWS, PH.D.· · PAGE
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`·4· · · · · · · ·GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
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`·4· · · · By Mr. Schultz..............................· ·7
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`·5· · · · · · · ·901 New York Avenue, Northwest
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`·5· · · · By Mr. Lavenue.............................. 198
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`·6· · · · · · · ·Washington, D.C. 20001-4413
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`·7· · · · · · · ·(202) 408-4000
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11
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`12· · · · · · · ·Pursuant to notice, before Karen Young,
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`13· ·Notary Public of the District of Columbia.
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`Page 3
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`·1· · · · · · · · A P P E A R A N C E S
`·2· ·ON BEHALF OF ROBERT BOSCH LLC:
`·3· · · · · ·AARON L. PARKER, ESQUIRE
`· · · · · · ·DAVID C. REESE, ESQUIRE
`·4· · · · · ·FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`· · · · · · ·GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`·5· · · · · ·901 New York Avenue, Northwest
`· · · · · · ·Washington, D.C. 20001-4413
`·6· · · · · ·AARON.PARKER@FINNEGAN.COM
`· · · · · · ·DAVID.REESE@FINNEGAN.COM
`·7· · · · · ·(202) 408-4000
`·8
`· · · · · · ·LIONEL M. LAVENUE, ESQUIRE
`·9· · · · · ·FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`· · · · · · ·GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`10· · · · · ·Two Freedom Square
`· · · · · · ·11955 Freedom Drive
`11· · · · · ·Reston, Virginia 20190-5675
`· · · · · · ·lionel.lavenue@finnegan.com
`12· · · · · ·(571) 203-2700
`13
`· · ·ON BEHALF OF DAIMLER AG:
`14
`· · · · · · ·BRETT N. WATKINS, ESQUIRE
`15· · · · · ·QUINN EMANUEL URQUHART & SULLIVAN, LLP
`· · · · · · ·777 Sixth Street, Northwest
`16· · · · · ·11th Floor
`· · · · · · ·Washington, D.C. 20001
`17· · · · · ·brettwatkins@quinnemanuel.com
`· · · · · · ·(202) 538-8160
`18
`19· ·ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
`20· · · · · ·ANDREW W. SCHULTZ, ESQUIRE
`· · · · · · ·DAVID M. MAGEE, ESQUIRE
`21· · · · · ·PEPPER HAMILTON LLP
`· · · · · · ·19th Floor, High Street Tower
`22· · · · · ·125 High Street
`· · · · · · ·Boston, Massachusetts 02110-2736
`23· · · · · ·mageed@pepperlaw.com
`· · · · · · ·schultza@pepperlaw.com
`24· · · · · ·(617) 204-5100
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`Page 5
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·E X H I B I T S
`·2· · · · · · · · · (Attached to Transcript)
`·3· ·Exhibit 1· · Notice of Deposition, IPR2015-01254.· ·7
`·4· ·Exhibit 2· · Notice of Deposition, IPR2015-01255.· 13
`·5· ·Exhibit 3· · Notice of Deposition, IPR2015-01256.· 13
`·6· ·Exhibit 4· · Notice of Deposition, IPR2015-01258.· ·9
`·7· ·Exhibit 5· · Notice of Deposition, IPR2015-01259.· 15
`·8· ·Exhibit 6· · Declaration of Dr. Ron Matthews,
`· · · · · ·IPR2015-01254..............................· 22
`·9
`· · ·Exhibit 7· · Declaration of Dr. Ron Matthews,
`10· · · · ·IPR2015-01255..............................· 32
`11· ·Exhibit 8· · Declaration of Dr. Ron Matthews,
`· · · · · ·IPR2015-01256..............................· 33
`12
`· · ·Exhibit 9· · U.S. Patent No. 6,923,387...........· 35
`13
`· · ·Exhibit 10· ·U.S. Patent No. 5,655,365...........· 60
`14
`· · ·Exhibit 11· ·Declaration of Dr. Ron Matthews,
`15· · · · ·IPR2015-01258..............................· 63
`16· ·Exhibit 12· ·Declaration of Dr. Ron Matthews,
`· · · · · ·IPR2015-01259..............................· 63
`17
`· · ·Exhibit 13· ·Ritchie e-mail to Len, 6/11/15......· 73
`18
`· · ·Exhibit 14· ·Dalton e-mail to Len, 3/12/14.......· 80
`19
`· · ·Exhibit 15· ·Petition for Inter Partes Review
`20· · · · ·of U.S. Patent No. 5,655,365, IPR2015-01258 103
`21· ·Exhibit 16· ·Petition for Inter Partes Review
`· · · · · ·of U.S. Patent No. 5,655,365, IPR2015-01259 104
`22
`· · ·Exhibit 17· ·Introduction Comparison............. 142
`23
`· · ·Exhibit 18· ·Crank Angle Timing Diagram.......... 157
`24
`· · ·Exhibit 19· ·Crank Angle Timing Diagram, Patent
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`Ex. 2006 2/83
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`Page 6
`·1· · · · ·Owner Only................................. 164
`·2· ·Exhibit 20· ·Prosecution History for U.S.
`· · · · · ·Patent No. 5,655,365....................... 166
`·3
`· · ·Exhibit 21· ·Crank Angle Timing Diagram.......... 171
`·4
`· · ·Exhibit 22· ·Crank Angle Timing Diagram.......... 172
`·5
`· · ·Exhibit 23· ·Patent Owner Preliminary Response
`·6· · · · ·to Petition................................ 178
`·7· ·Exhibit 24· ·Total Mass of Fuel Injected Chart... 188
`·8· ·Exhibit 25· ·Total Mass of Fuel Injected Chart... 190
`·9· ·Exhibit 26· ·Witness Notes Prepared by Dr. Ron
`· · · · · ·Matthews on Patent No. 6,923,387........... 199
`10
`· · ·Exhibit 27· ·Witness Notes Prepared by Dr. Ron
`11· · · · ·Matthews, Patent No. 5,655,365............. 199
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`Page 8
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·2· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`·3· · · ·Q.· · You've been handed what's marked as Exhibit
`·4· ·1.· Have you seen that document before?
`·5· · · ·A.· · No, sir, I don't believe so.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Can you read the title of it?
`·7· · · ·A.· · It says United States Patent and Trademark
`·8· ·Office, Before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
`·9· ·Robert Bosch LLC and Daimler AG, Petitioners, versus
`10· ·Orbital Australia PTY Limited, Patent Owner, Case
`11· ·Number IPR2015-01254, U.S. Patent 6,923,387, Notice of
`12· ·Deposition of Ron Matthews, Ph.D.
`13· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· The next page indicates that the
`14· ·deposition in that proceeding, IPR2015-1254 on the
`15· ·front page will begin today at 9:00, and you've never
`16· ·seen this document.
`17· · · ·A.· · I don't believe so.
`18· · · ·Q.· · Well, this indicates why we're here today.
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`20· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Numbers 2 and 3 were
`21· ·marked for identification.)
`22· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you.
`24· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· Exhibit 3.
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`Page 7
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`Page 9
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
`·2· · · · · · · ·RONALD DOUGLAS MATTHEWS, PH.D.,
`·3· · · having been duly sworn, was examined as follows:
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·5· · · · ·EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PATENT OWNER
`·6· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`·7· · · ·Q.· · Good morning, Dr. Matthews.· Could you
`·8· ·please state your full name for the record?
`·9· · · ·A.· · Ronald Douglas Matthews.
`10· · · ·Q.· · Very good, and your date of birth?
`11· · · ·A.· · 2/24/49.
`12· · · ·Q.· · And your home address?
`13· · · ·A.· · 4508 Sinclair Avenue, S-I-N-C-L-A-I-R,
`14· ·Austin, Texas.
`15· · · ·Q.· · Are you currently employed?
`16· · · ·A.· · I am.
`17· · · ·Q.· · Where?
`18· · · ·A.· · I'm a full professor of mechanical
`19· ·engineering at the University of Texas at Austin.
`20· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· All right.· I'm going to --
`21· ·can you mark this as Exhibit 1 please?
`22· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`23· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 1 was marked for
`24· ·identification.)
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·2· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 3 was marked for
`·3· ·identification.)
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·5· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· Exhibit 4.
`·6· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·7· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 4 was marked for
`·8· ·identification.)
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`10· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Exhibit 4 is for the '365
`11· ·patent.· Do you want to mix these into the same or do
`12· ·you want to separate them?
`13· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· I was probably going to -- it
`14· ·makes sense to mix them in, honestly.
`15· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· You're not going to have a
`16· ·clear division between the two?
`17· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· No, sir, I'm going to look at
`18· ·probably both of them in parallel.
`19· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Okay.· Well, we'll object to
`20· ·that because these are different proceedings, and I
`21· ·don't think it makes sense to have both proceedings
`22· ·included in the same.· So you said you're going to
`23· ·start with the '387 patent, and I think you need to do
`24· ·the '387 patent, which is IPR-1254 and 1255 and 1256,
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`Ex. 2006 3/83
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`Page 10
`·1· ·finish that, and then you can close that one out and
`·2· ·then go to the '365 patent.· I don't think it makes
`·3· ·sense to do the two.
`·4· · · · · · ·I can't force you to do it one way or the
`·5· ·other, but I'm going to object here.· I think that
`·6· ·would be confusing for the board, I think it will be
`·7· ·confusing for the judges, I think it will be confusing
`·8· ·to the administration proceedings.· To the extent that
`·9· ·you try to ask questions for both, then I'll reserve
`10· ·the right to call the board because I don't think you
`11· ·should be able to ask a question on the '387 patent
`12· ·and then ask about the '365 patent and go back to the
`13· ·'387 patent.· It's just confusing.· If you have a
`14· ·clear division within your questioning and you're not
`15· ·going to separate the transcripts, then you know, I'll
`16· ·let you do that, but my recommendation is that we have
`17· ·two -- two separate transcripts.
`18· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· Appreciate it.
`19· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· I think there would be a lot of
`20· ·overlap in the questioning.· We'll be rehashing a lot
`21· ·of the same ground and asking the same questions
`22· ·twice.· So to the extent that, you know, you have your
`23· ·latter suggestion as to a division in the one
`24· ·transcript of having, you know, '387 area and '365
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`Page 12
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`·1· ·for the '365 and be back in just a minute.
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·3· · · · · · · · ·(Discussion off the record)
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`·5· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Dr. Matthews, I believe you should have
`·7· ·what's been marked as Exhibits 1 through 5 now before
`·8· ·you; is that correct?
`·9· · · ·A.· · I have 1 through 4.
`10· · · ·Q.· · One through four.
`11· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`12· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 5 was marked for
`13· ·identification.)
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`15· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you.
`16· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`17· · · ·Q.· · Have you had a chance to look at all those
`18· ·documents?
`19· · · ·A.· · I have.· Thank you.
`20· · · ·Q.· · Exhibit 1 should be captioned -- part of the
`21· ·caption is IPR2015-1254.· Do you see that --
`22· · · ·A.· · I do.
`23· · · ·Q.· · -- on the front page?· And that's involving
`24· ·U.S. patent number 6,923,387?
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`Page 11
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`·1· ·area is probably the best approach.
`·2· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Okay, that's fine with us.
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· Just do what you were going to
`·4· ·do.· That's fine.· So we're going -- we're going to be
`·5· ·talking about the '365 first.
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Oh, not the '387.
`·7· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· The '387 we were going to use in
`·8· ·-- in -- in part of the questioning just as a
`·9· ·comparison of a couple of points, but it's going to be
`10· ·the '365 patent he's going to be questioning on first.
`11· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Okay, then we'll need to take
`12· ·a break because you said that we're going to start
`13· ·with the '387 so we brought our materials for the
`14· ·'387, and our materials for the '385 are still in our
`15· ·break room.
`16· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· Yeah, I think there -- there
`17· ·must have -- there was some confusion because we
`18· ·didn't have the '387 patent, but the intent of my
`19· ·saying we were going to start with the '387 was saying
`20· ·that we were going to use it in the early deposition
`21· ·so we needed it, so --
`22· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Okay.
`23· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· We can take a break.
`24· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· So we'll go get our materials
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`Page 13
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`·1· · · ·A.· · Yes, it is.
`·2· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Exhibit 2 is captioned IPR2015-01255.
`·3· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · And that's also involving U.S. patent
`·5· ·6,923,387?
`·6· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·7· · · ·Q.· · And Exhibit 3 is captioned IPR2015-01256.
`·8· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Also involving the '387 patent.
`10· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`11· · · ·Q.· · For today's proceedings, I would intend to
`12· ·sometimes refer to these as the 1254, 1255 or 1256
`13· ·proceedings.
`14· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`15· · · ·Q.· · Will you understand that to mean these IPRs?
`16· ·If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
`17· · · ·A.· · Thank you.
`18· · · ·Q.· · And I'll refer to that U.S. patent 6,923,387
`19· ·as the '387 patent.
`20· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`21· · · ·Q.· · And you'd understand that to be --
`22· · · ·A.· · I do.
`23· · · ·Q.· · -- the 692 --
`24· · · ·A.· · Thank you.
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`Ex. 2006 4/83
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`Page 14
`·1· · · ·Q.· · Turning to Exhibit 1, sorry, the first page
`·2· ·of Exhibit 1 --
`·3· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · After the title page?
`·5· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Can you read that first sentence please?
`·7· · · ·A.· · "Pursuant to 37 CFR 42.54, patent owner
`·8· ·Orbital Australia PTY Limited FKA Orbital Engine
`·9· ·Company Australia PTY Limited provides notice to
`10· ·petitioners that the deposition of Dr. Ron Matthews
`11· ·will be held at the offices of Finnegan, Henderson,
`12· ·Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP, 901 New York Avenue,
`13· ·Northwest, Washington, D.C., on March 17th, 2016,
`14· ·beginning at 9:00 a.m.· The deposition" --
`15· · · ·Q.· · That's fine.
`16· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`17· · · ·Q.· · Thank you.· Turning to Exhibit 4, it's
`18· ·entitled the "Notice of Deposition of Ron Matthews,
`19· ·Ph.D."
`20· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`21· · · ·Q.· · The case is captioned IPR2015-01258.
`22· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`23· · · ·Q.· · And that's involving U.S. patent 5,655,365.
`24· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
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`Page 16
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`·1· · · ·A.· · To give testimony in a deposition.
`·2· · · ·Q.· · In support of --
`·3· · · ·A.· · In support of the proceedings between Bosch
`·4· ·and Daimler and Orbital.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · Very good.· Have you had your deposition
`·6· ·taken before?
`·7· · · ·A.· · I have.
`·8· · · ·Q.· · About how many times?
`·9· · · ·A.· · Several.· I don't recall exactly.
`10· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· More than ten?
`11· · · ·A.· · No.
`12· · · ·Q.· · When was the last time you were deposed
`13· ·approximately?
`14· · · ·A.· · I believe it was about five years ago.
`15· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Was it involving a patent case?
`16· · · ·A.· · It was.
`17· · · ·Q.· · Of all the times that you've been deposed,
`18· ·do you recall them all involving patent cases?
`19· · · ·A.· · They were not.
`20· · · ·Q.· · They were not.· What other types of cases
`21· ·have you dealt with?
`22· · · ·A.· · I've dealt with cases involving failure of
`23· ·engines that led to some kind of damage or damages,
`24· ·and so -- yeah, so that's -- that's primarily it.
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`Page 15
`·1· · · ·Q.· · And I will refer to that as the 1258
`·2· ·proceeding.· Will you understand that to refer to the
`·3· ·IPR2015-1258?
`·4· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · And Exhibit 5 is the notice of deposition of
`·6· ·Ron Matthews, Ph.D. in the case captioned IPR2015 dash
`·7· ·01259, also involving the '365 patent.
`·8· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · That's U.S. patent 5,655,365.
`10· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`11· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· And looking at the first page after
`12· ·the title page of Exhibit 4 --
`13· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`14· · · ·Q.· · Can you tell me the date and time that the
`15· ·deposition will be held?
`16· · · ·A.· · March 17th, 2016 beginning at 9:00 a.m.
`17· · · ·Q.· · Very good, and you can confirm that Exhibits
`18· ·2 and 3 and Exhibit 5 similarly recite the same time?
`19· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`20· · · ·Q.· · Thank you.· You were not provided copies of
`21· ·any of Exhibits 1 through 5?
`22· · · ·A.· · Don't believe so.
`23· · · ·Q.· · Do you have an understanding of why you're
`24· ·here today?
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`Page 17
`·1· · · ·Q.· · When was the last time you testified in a
`·2· ·patent case?
`·3· · · ·A.· · Two years ago I think.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · And you weren't deposed?
`·5· · · ·A.· · No.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · What kind of technologies have you been
`·7· ·involved with with regard to previous patent cases?
`·8· · · ·A.· · So the most recent one was between a
`·9· ·Louisiana company called Gaitor-Tail and two other
`10· ·companies called Go Devil and -- I can't remember the
`11· ·name of the other one, but they all had mud boat
`12· ·engines.· So these are engines for small watercraft
`13· ·that operate in very shallow water, and so fellow who
`14· ·runs Gaitor-Tail, while he was in school, one of the
`15· ·schools in Louisiana, came up with a concept for a
`16· ·better way of providing transmission of engine power
`17· ·from the engine to the propeller, and then a couple
`18· ·other companies came out with his concept that he had
`19· ·patented.
`20· · · ·Q.· · And this gentleman sued those other
`21· ·companies for patent infringement?
`22· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`23· · · ·Q.· · And you drafted expert reports on --
`24· · · ·A.· · Yes, I did.
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`Ex. 2006 5/83
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`Page 18
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`·1· · · ·Q.· · -- behalf of the patent owner?
`·2· · · ·A.· · Yes, I did.
`·3· · · ·Q.· · What were those expert reports directed to?
`·4· · · ·A.· · Boy, it's been a while.· They were directed
`·5· ·to whether or not his patent was valid.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Did you comment on infringement at
`·7· ·all?
`·8· · · ·A.· · I believe I did.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · What was the outcome of that case?
`10· · · ·A.· · I believe the outcome of that case was that
`11· ·they found against the patent owner.
`12· · · ·Q.· · And you said you were deposed during that --
`13· · · ·A.· · No.
`14· · · ·Q.· · -- trial?
`15· · · ·A.· · No, I was not deposed during that one.
`16· · · ·Q.· · Did you provide testimony in a court?
`17· · · ·A.· · I did.
`18· · · ·Q.· · Before a judge?
`19· · · ·A.· · Before a judge.
`20· · · ·Q.· · Have you provided testimony in court other
`21· ·-- in other cases?
`22· · · ·A.· · Yes.
`23· · · ·Q.· · And when do you think those were
`24· ·approximately?
`
`Page 20
`
`·1· ·answers.· Nods are not going to be recorded.
`·2· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·3· · · ·Q.· · And I will assume that you understand the
`·4· ·question that I ask you unless you indicate otherwise.
`·5· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · If you don't understand, please feel free to
`·7· ·ask and I'll try and rephrase the question.
`·8· · · ·A.· · Thank you.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · And finally, if you need a break at any
`10· ·time, feel free to ask and we can go off the record.
`11· · · ·A.· · Okay, thank you.
`12· · · ·Q.· · Do you understand that today you're
`13· ·testifying under oath as if under a court of law?
`14· · · ·A.· · I do.
`15· · · ·Q.· · And is there any reason that you -- that
`16· ·would prevent you from testifying truthfully --
`17· · · ·A.· · No.
`18· · · ·Q.· · -- today?
`19· · · ·A.· · Oh, I'm sorry.
`20· · · ·Q.· · That's fine.· Is there any reason that would
`21· ·prevent you from testifying truthfully today?
`22· · · ·A.· · No, sir.
`23· · · ·Q.· · I'm going to be giving you a lot of
`24· ·documents.· For the most part, I'll indicate when we
`
`Page 19
`
`·1· · · ·A.· · Probably ten years ago and more.
`·2· · · ·Q.· · About how many times do you think you've
`·3· ·provided testimony before a court?
`·4· · · ·A.· · I'd say roughly five or six maybe.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · And those were involving patent cases?
`·6· · · ·A.· · I think the Gaitor-Tail case was the only
`·7· ·patent case that I've been involved in.
`·8· · · ·Q.· · Have you provided any testimony in the past
`·9· ·before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board?
`10· · · ·A.· · No, I have not.
`11· · · ·Q.· · Sorry, before we go further, I do want to
`12· ·establish some rules for this deposition today.· I'm
`13· ·sure your counsel has already notified you of -- of
`14· ·the general rules, but I'm going to remind you of the
`15· ·few most important ones.
`16· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`17· · · ·Q.· · If anything's not clear, feel free to -- to
`18· ·say so.· The court reporter can only take one of us
`19· ·down at a time.· If I'm asking a question, I'd
`20· ·appreciate if you wait for my answer.· If you're
`21· ·answering, I'd appreciate it if -- I will wait for you
`22· ·to finish your answer.
`23· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`24· · · ·Q.· · Also, the court reporter needs verbal
`
`Page 21
`·1· ·don't need to refer to it again.· I think we're done
`·2· ·with the notices of deposition.
`·3· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · If you want to put those aside --
`·5· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · -- you can.· The court reporter will collect
`·7· ·them at the end.
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· You're doing the '365 first?
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· I'm going to introduce all of
`10· ·the declarations.
`11· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Okay, because -- because he
`12· ·has a copy of the declarations before him, but if you
`13· ·want to go ahead and give him another copy, just so
`14· ·you know, he has in his binders a copy of his
`15· ·declarations.
`16· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`17· · · ·Q.· · Do you have any annotations on the -- on
`18· ·those documents?
`19· · · ·A.· · No, I do not.
`20· · · ·Q.· · Okay.
`21· · · · · · ·MR. MAGEE:· We should mark them for the
`22· ·record so we have marked copies.
`23· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`24· · · ·Q.· · So I am going to mark them for the record.
`
`Ex. 2006 6/83
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`

`
`Page 22
`·1· ·You can put them aside, refer to yours.· If you come
`·2· ·across any notes, please let me know.
`·3· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · So that they will become a part of the
`·5· ·official record, they should be identical to the -- to
`·6· ·the declarations and documents that are in your
`·7· ·binder.· If you don't have a copy of -- of any of the
`·8· ·documents that I refer to, just let me know.
`·9· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`10· · · · · · ·MR. SCHULTZ:· Counsel, do you need copies of
`11· ·documents?
`12· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· I do not need copies, but if
`13· ·you have a copy, I'll take it, put it in my set.
`14· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`15· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 6 was marked for
`16· ·identification.)
`17· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`18· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`19· · · ·Q.· · That's Exhibit 6.· Now, you've been handed
`20· ·what's been marked Exhibit 6.
`21· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`22· · · ·Q.· · Do you recognize this document?
`23· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir, I do.
`24· · · ·Q.· · And can you tell from the title page which
`
`Page 24
`
`·1· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir, it is.
`·2· · · ·Q.· · And it's dated on what date?
`·3· · · ·A.· · The 29th of May 2015.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · About what date did you begin preparing this
`·5· ·declaration?
`·6· · · ·A.· · I don't recall.
`·7· · · ·Q.· · Approximately?
`·8· · · ·A.· · I probably worked on it for four to six
`·9· ·weeks.
`10· · · ·Q.· · And when you say you worked on it for four
`11· ·to six weeks, you were drafting four to six weeks?
`12· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`13· · · ·Q.· · And when did you initially have contact with
`14· ·petitioners' counsel regarding drafting this
`15· ·declaration?
`16· · · ·A.· · I really don't recall.
`17· · · ·Q.· · Could it have been a month before you
`18· ·started drafting?
`19· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Objection, asked and answered.
`20· ·You can answer.
`21· · · ·A.· · Okay, yeah, if I worked on it for 12 to six
`22· ·-- or four to six weeks, then I wouldn't have started
`23· ·drafting it before they contacted me.
`24· · · ·Q.· · Just trying to figure out about how much
`
`Page 23
`·1· ·of -- what -- what patent this declaration is involved
`·2· ·with?
`·3· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir, it's the '387.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · Can you tell which of the proceedings this
`·5· ·exhibit is involved with?
`·6· · · ·A.· · Could you clarify what you mean by
`·7· ·proceedings?
`·8· · · ·Q.· · So there are IPRs involving the '387 patent,
`·9· ·the 1254, the 1255 and the 1256.· Just -- just so you
`10· ·know, this is the 1254 --
`11· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`12· · · ·Q.· · -- declaration.
`13· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`14· · · ·Q.· · And I will refer to it as the 1254 --
`15· · · ·A.· · Okay.
`16· · · ·Q.· · -- declaration.· If you want to mark that
`17· ·copy as the 1254 declaration, feel free to.
`18· · · ·A.· · Thank you, I think I will.
`19· · · ·Q.· · So can you identify this document?
`20· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`21· · · ·Q.· · And what is that?
`22· · · ·A.· · It's my declaration in the 1254.
`23· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· And is that your signature on page 66
`24· ·of this document?
`
`Page 25
`·1· ·time between when they initially contacted you and you
`·2· ·started drafting the petition.
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. LAVENUE:· Objection, asked and answered.
`·4· ·You can answer.
`·5· · · ·A.· · I really don't recall, but maybe a week or
`·6· ·two.
`·7· · · ·Q.· · Okay.· Do you recall about how far in
`·8· ·advance of the petition being filed you were
`·9· ·contacted?
`10· · · ·A.· · No, sir.
`11· · · ·Q.· · Pages 67 through 105 on the back of Exhibit
`12· ·6 --
`13· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`14· · · ·Q.· · -- is your C.V.; is that correct?
`15· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`16· · · ·Q.· · When was this updated last?· Let me ask --
`17· ·sorry, excuse me.· Does the C.V. that's part of
`18· ·Exhibit 6 -- is that still current?
`19· · · ·A.· · No, it's not still current.
`20· · · ·Q.· · What -- what has changed since this C.V. was
`21· ·provided?
`22· · · ·A.· · Mostly students, the graduate students that
`23· ·I'm supervising, and in the offices I serve in for the
`24· ·Society of Automotive Engineers.
`
`Ex. 2006 7/83
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`Page 26
`·1· · · ·Q.· · On page 67 of Exhibit 6, you have listed
`·2· ·under the consulting heading that you consulted for
`·3· ·Daimler Detroit Diesel from September 2010 to June
`·4· ·2012.
`·5· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · And after June 2012, did you have any
`·7· ·relationship with Daimler until you were contacted --
`·8· ·until the IPR?
`·9· · · ·A.· · No, I did not.
`10· · · ·Q.· · What was the nature of your work for Daimler
`11· ·Detroit Diesel?
`12· · · ·A.· · They were being sued for patent
`13· ·infringement.· I don't recall by who, and so that case
`14· ·settled, so I never gave a deposition or expert -- or
`15· ·declaration or anything.
`16· · · ·Q.· · Do you know about how long after the case
`17· ·was filed it was settled?
`18· · · ·A.· · No, I do not.
`19· · · ·Q.· · And you never provided an expert report, you
`20· ·said?
`21· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`22· · · ·Q.· · Did you consult on the invalidity of the
`23· ·patent owner?
`24· · · ·A.· · No.
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`Page 28
`
`·1· · · ·A.· · I have not.
`·2· · · ·Q.· · Have you ever received any grants from
`·3· ·Bosch?
`·4· · · ·A.· · I have not.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · And you're currently at the University of
`·6· ·Texas at Austin?
`·7· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`·8· · · ·Q.· · Do you do a lot of work, research at UT
`·9· ·Austin under grants from the automotive industry?
`10· · · ·A.· · I do some.
`11· · · ·Q.· · And who supplies those grants?
`12· · · ·A.· · It varies.
`13· · · ·Q.· · Could you give me some of the more recent?
`14· · · ·A.· · Okay, so we've had grants from General
`15· ·Motors, Ford, recently Chrysler, and we're going to
`16· ·start a project for Ford this summer.· Most of our
`17· ·research has been funded by the U.S. Department of
`18· ·Energy.
`19· · · ·Q.· · And I believe your C.V. lists a number of
`20· ·patents that you are a named inventor on?
`21· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`22· · · ·Q.· · Do you know where that is?
`23· · · ·A.· · That is on page 97.
`24· · · ·Q.· · Thank you.· Do you believe this to be a
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`Page 27
`·1· · · ·Q.· · So what was the nature of the particular
`·2· ·work that you did in that case?
`·3· · · ·A.· · I went to the Detroit Diesel research
`·4· ·facility and watched them acquire a lot of diesel
`·5· ·data, and then I did some analysis of that data.
`·6· · · ·Q.· · Do you know if you were doing the analysis
`·7· ·of that data to establish a noninfringement position?
`·8· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Was any prior art ever identified in that
`10· ·case?· Excuse me.· Was any prior art to the asserted
`11· ·patent identified in that case?
`12· · · ·A.· · I'm not sure.
`13· · · ·Q.· · Did you do a search for prior art,
`14· ·potentially invalidating prior art?
`15· · · ·A.· · No, I did not.
`16· · · ·Q.· · Have you ever consulted with Bosch?
`17· · · ·A.· · I don't recall that I have.
`18· · · ·Q.· · Do you believe this C.V. to be a complete
`19· ·list of all your consulting?
`20· · · ·A.· · I believe it is.
`21· · · ·Q.· · I don't see Bosch on here.
`22· · · ·A.· · No, so I haven't.
`23· · · ·Q.· · Have you ever received any grants from
`24· ·Daimler?
`
`Page 29
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`·1· ·complete list of all the patents and patent
`·2· ·applications that you've been -- you've been a named
`·3· ·inventor?
`·4· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · Do you know who the assignee of most of
`·6· ·these patents is currently?
`·7· · · ·A.· · I think most of these are assigned to the
`·8· ·University of Texas.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · Are any of them assigned to -- to your
`10· ·knowledge, were any of them assigned from you to a
`11· ·company in the automotive industry?
`12· · · ·A.· · U.S. patent number 6,119,637 was paid for by
`13· ·Ford.· The patent was in their name, and then they
`14· ·gave the patent to University of Texas.
`15· · · ·Q.· · Do you know if any of these patents that are
`16· ·listed on page 97 are licensed from the University of
`17· ·Texas to some -- to a company in the automotive
`18· ·industry?
`19· · · ·A.· · I believe that U.S. patent number 7,370,610
`20· ·has been licensed.
`21· · · ·Q.· · And who is the licensee?
`22· · · ·A.· · I'm afraid I don't recall.
`23· · · ·Q.· · Is the licensor, to your knowledge, the
`24· ·University of Texas at Austin?
`
`Ex. 2006 8/83
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`Page 30
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`·1· · · ·A.· · Does licensor mean patent holder?
`·2· · · ·Q.· · The patent holder who licensed.
`·3· · · ·A.· · Yes, that's the University of Texas.
`·4· · · ·Q.· · And the patent that you just referenced,
`·5· ·U.S. patent 7,370,610 -- it's entitled "On-board fuel
`·6· ·fractionation system and methods used to generate a
`·7· ·starting fuel for gasoline-powered engines."
`·8· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`·9· · · ·Q.· · What is a fuel fractionation system?
`10· · · ·A.· · Nothing burns in a liquid phase, and so a
`11· ·difficulty with cold start of an engine, and a cold
`12· ·start is defined by an engine engineer as when the
`13· ·intake air temperature is approximately equal to the
`14· ·engine coolant temperature.· So it can be a cold start
`15· ·if both are at zero Fahrenheit or it could be a cold
`16· ·start if both are at a hundred degrees Fahrenheit.· So
`17· ·the difficulty is that since nothing burns in the
`18· ·liquid phase, you need to get as much of the gasoline
`19· ·to evaporate as possible in order to provide a mixture
`20· ·of fuel, vapor and air that's ignitable so you can get
`21· ·the engine started.
`22· · · · · · ·And so what that means is that when the
`23· ·temperature is at 20 to 30 degrees centigrade, 68 to
`24· ·86 degrees Fahrenheit, only ten to 20 percent of
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`Page 32
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`·1· ·UT Austin.
`·2· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`·3· · · ·Q.· · In association with M.D. Ashford?
`·4· · · ·A.· · Yes, he was my Ph.D. student at the time.
`·5· · · ·Q.· · It looks like you also filed this
`·6· ·application in Europe?
`·7· · · ·A.· · That's correct.
`·8· · · ·Q.· · Do you know if it issued?
`·9· · · ·A.· · Let me take a look here.
`10· · · ·Q.· · It's the second from the bottom I think.
`11· · · ·A.· · I don't know if it issued.
`12· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`13· · · · · · ·(Deposition Exhibit Number 7 was marked for
`14· ·identification.)
`15· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-· - -
`16· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Thank you.
`17· ·BY MR. SCHULTZ:
`18· · · ·Q.· · I've handed you Exhibit 7.
`19· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir.
`20· · · ·Q.· · Do you recognize the patent that this
`21· ·document is directed to?
`22· · · ·A.· · Yes, sir, it's the '387.
`23· · · ·Q.· · You can confirm, but I'd let you know that
`24· ·this is the declaration that was submitted in
`
`Page 31
`·1· ·gasoline will evaporate.· Okay, so you need to
`·2· ·overfuel the engine by a factor of eight to 15 in
`·3· ·order to get enough fuel vapor to give you an
`·4· ·ignitable mixture and get the engine to start.
`·5· · · · · · ·So the idea between this fuel fractionation
`·6· ·system is that when the engine is running normally,
`·7· ·then you're sending fuel from the fuel tank to a fuel
`·8· ·pump up to what's called a fuel rail.· Now, the fuel
`·9· ·injector's plugged into that rail, and then they
`10· ·inject what th