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` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.,)
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
` NISSAN CHEMICAL INDUSTRIES, )
` Ltd., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` - - - -
` DEPOSITION OF: THOMAS JENKINS
` - - - -
`
` DEPOSITION DATE:
` September 11, 2015
` Friday, 4:40 p.m.
`
` LOCATION:
` Holiday Inn Express
` 4000 Horizon Vue Drive
` Canonsburg, PA 15317
`
` TAKEN BY:
` Patent Owner
`
` REPORTED BY:
` Pamela L. Beck
` Notary Public
`
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`888-391-3376
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`PUBLIC VERSION
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`NCI Exhibit 2031
`
`
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` MYLAN PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.,)
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. )
` )
` NISSAN CHEMICAL INDUSTRIES, )
` Ltd., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` - - - -
` DEPOSITION OF: THOMAS JENKINS
` - - - -
`
` DEPOSITION DATE:
` September 11, 2015
` Friday, 4:40 p.m.
`
` LOCATION:
` Holiday Inn Express
` 4000 Horizon Vue Drive
` Canonsburg, PA 15317
`
` TAKEN BY:
` Patent Owner
`
` REPORTED BY:
` Pamela L. Beck
` Notary Public
`
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`NCI Exhibit 2031
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`Page 2
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` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF THOMAS JENKINS,
` a witness, called by the Patent Owner for
` examination, taken by and before Pamela L. Beck, a
` Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
` Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at the Holiday Inn
` Express & Suites, 4000 Horizon Vue Drive,
` Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, on September 11, 2015,
` commencing at 4:40 p.m.
`
` APPEARANCES:
` FOR THE PETITIONER:
` Thomas J. Parker, Esq.
` thomas.parker@alston.com
` ALSTON & BIRD, LLP
` 4721 Emperor Blvd., Suite 400
` Durham, NC 27703
` 919-862-2200
`
` FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
` Kathleen B. Carr, Esq.
` kbcarr@mintz.com
` David G. Conlin, Esq.
` dgconlin@mintz.com
` MINTZ LEVIN COHN FERRIS GLOVSKY AND POPEO, P.C.
` One Financial Center
` Boston, MA 02111
` 617-348-1857
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
` Matthew Rethage - Video Operator
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`
` EXAMINATION INDEX
` THOMAS JENKINS
` CROSS BY MS. CARR . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
`
`Page 3
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` CERTIFICATE OF COURT REPORTER . . . . . . 136
`
` EXHIBIT INDEX
` MAR
` JENKINS
`Exhibit 1 Declaration of Thomas J. Jenkins 6
`Exhibit 2 Petitioner's Response to the Real 9
` Party-In-Interest Allegations Raised in
` Patent Owner's Preliminary Response
`Exhibit 3 Mylan Website 45
`Exhibit 4 Articles of Association of Mylan N.V. 50
`Exhibit 5 Forward-Looking Statements 57
`Exhibit 6 Petitioner's Power of Attorney 84
`Exhibit 7 Steven Flynn's Linkedln Page 85
`Exhibit 8 Report of Receipts and Disbursements 86
`Exhibit 9 Wall Street Journal Article 89
`Exhibit 10 Mylan N.V. MYL (U.S.: Nasdaq) 91
`Exhibit 11 Article Entitled Mylan Launches 96
` Generic Zosyn Injection
`
`Exhibit 12 Article Entitled Mylan Launches Generic 102
` Subutex Sublingual Tablets
`Exhibit 13 Article Entitled Mylan to Present at 107
` Goldman Sachs 36th Annual Global
` Healthcare Conference
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` * EXHIBITS CONTINUED *
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`Page 4
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`Exhibit 14 Document Entitled Corporate Governance 113
`
`Exhibit 15 Q2 2015 Earnings Call 124
`
`Exhibit 16 Document Re: Mylan, Inc. and New 132
`
` Moon B.V. Dated February 12, 2015
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` P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
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` VIDEO OPERATOR: Good afternoon. My
`
` name is Matthew Rethage of AKF VideoTech
`
` Services. The time that is indicated on the
`
` screen is 4:40 p.m. on September 11, 2015.
`
` Will the parties that are present please state
`
` their names and whom may represent for the
`
` record.
`
` MS. CARR: Kathleen Carr for Nissan
`
` Chemical Industries Ltd Patent Owner, and with
`
` me is David Conlin, and we're both with Mintz
`
` Levin.
`
` MR. PARKER: Thomas Parker with the
`
` law firm of Alston & Bird here representing
`
` the deponent, Thomas Jenkins.
`
` VIDEO OPERATOR: Thank you. If
`
` there is nothing further, will the court
`
` reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` - - - -
`
` THOMAS JENKINS,
`
` having been duly sworn,
`
` was examined and testified as follows:
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`Page 6
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` CROSS-EXAMINATION
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` - - - -
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` BY MS. CARR:
`
` Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Jenkins.
`
` A. Good afternoon.
`
` Q. Could you state your full name for the record,
`
` please.
`
` A. Thomas Jenkins.
`
` Q. Do you have a middle name?
`
` A. Wayne.
`
` Q. Could you tell me who you work for.
`
` A. Mylan, Incorporated.
`
` Q. Do you work for any other corporation in the
`
` world at the present time?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Do you work for any other business entity in
`
` the world at the present time?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. I'd like to show you a document and see if you
`
` recognize it. For identification purposes, it
`
` says Mylan Exhibit 1045, but why don't we mark
`
` it as Jenkins Exhibit 1.
`
` - - - -
`
` (Deposition Exhibit No. 1 was
`
` marked for identification.)
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` Q. Mr. Jenkins, could you take a look at that
`
` document that's been placed in front of you
`
` that's been marked as Jenkins Exhibit 1.
`
` - - - -
`
` (The witness reviewed the document.)
`
` - - - -
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. You've briefly flipped through that document;
`
` right?
`
` A. I have.
`
` Q. Could you tell me if you recognize it.
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Could you tell me what it is.
`
` A. It's my declaration.
`
` Q. Could you tell me the last time that you saw
`
` that document that's been placed in front of
`
` you.
`
` A. I saw a copy of this document today.
`
` Q. Who was present when you saw a copy of that
`
` document today, if anyone?
`
` A. My counsel, Tom Parker.
`
` Q. Anyone else?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Could you tell me what, if anything, you did
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` to prepare for your deposition today.
`
` MR. PARKER: Let me just -- he can
`
` discuss whether he met with counsel, he can
`
` discuss how long he met with counsel. But
`
` beyond that, I'll instruct the witness not to
`
` answer the question. Go ahead.
`
` MS. CARR: Well, I disagree with
`
` that, but we can take it one step at a time.
`
` BY MS. CARR:
`
` Q. Could you tell me if you met with anybody
`
` today in preparation for your deposition.
`
` A. Yes, briefly.
`
` Q. Who?
`
` A. Thomas Parker.
`
` Q. How long?
`
` A. It was about 15 minutes.
`
` Q. Where?
`
` A. At the Hilton Garden Inn.
`
` Q. Did you look at any documents in preparation
`
` for your deposition?
`
` A. At all?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Or just with respect to that meeting this
`
` morning?
`
` Q. At that meeting this morning?
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` A. No.
`
` Q. Did you look at any documents at all in
`
` preparation for your deposition?
`
` MR. PARKER: I'm going to instruct
`
` the witness not to answer that question.
`
` Getting into his preparation for deposition
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` with counsel is privileged, and I'm going to
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` shut it down.
`
` MS. CARR: I disagree with that as
`
` well.
`
` BY MS. CARR:
`
` Q. Could you tell me --
`
` A. Other than my declaration, I don't think I
`
` reviewed anything.
`
` Q. In preparation for your deposition?
`
` A. I did read the preliminary response from
`
` Nissan.
`
` Q. I'm going to show you another document and see
`
` if you recognize it. We'll mark this as
`
` Jenkins Exhibit 2.
`
` - - - -
`
` (Deposition Exhibit No. 2 was
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` marked for identification.)
`
` - - - -
`
` Q. Mr. Jenkins, do you recognize that document
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` that's been placed in front of you as Jenkins
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` Exhibit 2?
`
` A. From the cover page, it says Petitioner's
`
` Response to the Real Party-In-Interest
`
` Allegations Raised in Patent Owner's
`
` Preliminary Response.
`
` Q. Have you ever seen that a copy of that
`
` document before?
`
` A. I think I was provided a copy of this
`
` document.
`
` Q. When?
`
` A. Before it was filed.
`
` Q. Have you seen it since it was filed?
`
` A. I have not read it since it was filed.
`
` Q. Did you read it before it was filed?
`
` A. I skimmed it.
`
` Q. Going back to Jenkins Exhibit 1. Did you ever
`
` have occasion to read that document?
`
` A. Yeah, this is my declaration, so of course.
`
` Q. Could you tell me if you read the document
`
` that's been marked as Jenkins Exhibit 1 before
`
` it was filed.
`
` A. Oh, of course.
`
` Q. How long did you spend reading it before it
`
` was filed?
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` A. Well, it was something that was created in
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` part by myself with outside counsel as an
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` iterative process.
`
` Q. What do you mean by as an iterative process?
`
` A. Counsel and I --
`
` THE WITNESS: Can I answer this?
`
` This is privileged.
`
` MR. PARKER: We're not going to get
`
` into drafts of declarations. I mean,
`
` obviously counsel collaborated with the
`
` witness. He testified that he read it. Go
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` ahead. It's an iterative process, we'll go
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` from there and how far you want to take it.
`
` A. I certainly read every paragraph in this
`
` declaration, confirmed that it was true and
`
` that I was comfortable with everything that
`
` was in here, and I did so before it was
`
` finalized.
`
` Q. Did you have an understanding as to whether
`
` this document was completed for any particular
`
` purpose?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What purpose was that?
`
` A. It was to be used in conjunction with an IPR
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` proceeding.
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` Q. What is your understanding of the IPR
`
` proceeding that it was used in conjunction
`
` with?
`
` A. The Pitavastatin IPR proceeding that Mylan
`
` Pharmaceuticals, Incorporated.
`
` Q. How much time did you personally spend working
`
` on this document that's been marked as Jenkins
`
` Exhibit 1?
`
` A. I don't have a precise time. I spent a
`
` significant amount of time on it.
`
` Q. Did you have an understanding as to whether it
`
` was going to be submitted to the patent
`
` office?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. What was that understanding?
`
` A. That it would be submitted to the patent
`
` office.
`
` Q. So, you had a declaration by yourself that was
`
` to be submitted to the patent office, and you
`
` didn't even bother to sign it yourself; is
`
` that right, Mr. Jenkins?
`
` A. No, that's not right.
`
` Q. Could you turn to the last page of the
`
` document, Mr. Jenkins.
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. Do you see a signature under where it says
`
` respectfully submitted?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Is that your personal signature?
`
` A. This is an electronic version of my signature
`
` that I had my assistant prepare because I had
`
` to be outside of the office. I was in a rural
`
` area that didn't have access to a printer or a
`
` scanner or a fax. My outside counsel asked me
`
` to send an electronic version to him. And
`
` because I was in an area where I couldn't do
`
` that electronically, technically, I had my
`
` secretary prepare an electronic version of my
`
` signature, which I authorized her to do, and
`
` which she sent to my outside counsel. But I
`
` can tell you that we did not provide the
`
` electronic signature to outside counsel until
`
` the declaration was 100 percent complete.
`
` Before it was affixed, I agreed with
`
` everything that's in here, paragraphs 1 to 18.
`
` Q. That's a pretty well-prepared speech,
`
` Mr. Jenkins.
`
` MR. PARKER: Objection.
`
` Q. Could you tell me who SDR is.
`
` A. She's my assistant, Sharon Raneger.
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`Page 14
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` Q. Do you have a common practice of submitting
`
` documents to the patent office that don't have
`
` your own personal signature on them when
`
` you're supposed to sign them yourself?
`
` A. That's a loaded question, and I don't think I
`
` agree with the premise. But I can tell you
`
` that I don't have a lot of experience, I'm not
`
` registered in the patent office. I don't
`
` typically submit anything to the patent
`
` office. In fact, this may be the first thing
`
` I've ever submitted to the patent office.
`
` Q. Have you personally submitted a document to
`
` court?
`
` A. I have filed documents with District Courts,
`
` yes.
`
` Q. Have you ever filed a declaration or an
`
` affidavit with the District Court?
`
` A. I believe so.
`
` Q. Did you sign that yourself personally?
`
` A. Typically we use electronic signatures.
`
` Q. Have you ever submitted a declaration or an
`
` affidavit that was supposed to be signed by
`
` you personally and had somebody else sign it
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` for you?
`
` A. No, and I didn't do that in this case either.
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`Page 15
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` Q. I think you just told me, Mr. Jenkins, that
`
` you did not sign this document personally, did
`
` you?
`
` A. This is an electronic version of my signature,
`
` which I asked my assistant at the request of
`
` counsel to prepare for me.
`
` Q. Did you ever look at the final version of the
`
` document that's been marked as Exhibit 1
`
` before you had your assistant attach your
`
` signature to it?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. What type of device did you look at the final
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` version of the document on?
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` A. On my iPhone.
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` Q. So, you looked at some document on little tiny
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` type and then told your assistant she could
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` sign your name to it; is that right?
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` MR. PARKER: Objection, harassing
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` the witness, mischaracterizing his testimony,
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` lack of foundation.
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` A. It was an iterative process going back and
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` forth with this document over several days.
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` The changes that were made, and I'm not sure
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` even sure there were any, from the version
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` that I have seen when I was last in any office
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` until when it became finalized were minimal.
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` And I was able to review the document in its
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` entirety. It's only a four page document,
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` there's only 18 paragraphs. I was able to
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` confirm by reading it on my iPhone that
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` nothing was changed, and I agreed with
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` everything that was in the document at the
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` time. And I notified my secretary that she
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` could place the electronic version of my
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` signature on the document.
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` Q. Do you have an auto pen, Mr. Jenkins?
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` A. No; I don't even know what that is.
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` Q. Does this signature on page 4 look like your
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` signature?
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` A. I don't even know how to answer that question.
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` My secretary actually, you know, wrote the
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` signature. I think I testified to that. This
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` is an electronic version of my signature,
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` which I authorized my secretary to do for me
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` since I had to be outside of the office, I was
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` not anywhere close to being able to get to a
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` scanner, printer or fax in order to get this
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` back to my outside counsel in the time that it
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` needed to be filed. So, I had my secretary
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` affix an electronic version of my signature,
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` which I authorized, which was asked by my
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` counsel to the document after I determined it
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` was finalized.
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` Q. Could you tell me what's electronic about the
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` signature, Mr. Jenkins.
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` A. My signature, my secretary signed it, and then
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` she transmitted it electronically to my
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` outside counsel.
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` Q. So, she transmitted her signature of your name
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` to your outside counsel, is that what you
`
` meant?
`
` A. No, that's not what I meant.
`
` MR. PARKER: Mischaracterizes the
`
` witness' testimony, objection.
`
` Q. Maybe I misunderstood. I thought you just
`
` said that she signed your name and put her
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` initials and sent it to your counsel. Is that
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` not what you just said, Mr. Jenkins?
`
` A. No. What I said was my secretary sent an
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` electronic version of my signature, which I
`
` authorized her to make for me to outside
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` counsel.
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` Q. Why was it so last minute that you needed to
`
` have your secretary sign your name to a
`
` declaration, Mr. Jenkins?
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` MR. PARKER: Objection,
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` mischaracterizes the statement, no foundation
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` and asked and answered.
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` Q. You can answer the question.
`
` A. It wasn't last minute. We worked on this
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` declaration for several days. At the time it
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` was finalized, I had to be away from the
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` office. I have a practice of not signing
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` documents until they're 100 percent finalized.
`
` Q. So, this document that's three and a half --
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` no, I guess 3.25, I think I was told, pages
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` long is the sum and substance of your
`
` testimony on the topic that's the subject of
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` your declaration; is that right?
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` A. This is my declaration.
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` Q. You chose not to add anything further for the
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` rest of page 4 or for page 5; is that right?
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` A. This is my declaration, I don't know how else
`
` to answer that question.
`
` Q. You didn't have anything else to add on the
`
` topic other than what's on this declaration, I
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` take it; is that right?
`
` A. This is my declaration.
`
` Q. Looking back at page 1 of your declaration,
`
` that's a paragraph on page 2 that says: I
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` either have personal knowledge of the facts
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` stated in this declaration or believe them to
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` be true based on my experience, review of the
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` business records or information I have
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` otherwise received in the course of my duties.
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` Do you see that sentence?
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` A. I do.
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` Q. Could you tell me what items in this
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` declaration were not based on your personal
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` knowledge of the facts stated in the
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` declaration.
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` A. Everything in this declaration is based on my
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` personal knowledge.
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` Q. So, there's nothing in the declaration that's
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` based on -- strike that.
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` So, there's nothing in this
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` declaration that's a statement of fact that
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` you believe to be true based on your
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` experience, review of business records or
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` information otherwise received in the course
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` of your duties? Is that what you're saying?
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` A. No. I guess the way I would frame this is
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` that my personal knowledge is based upon the
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` experience that I have acquired in my job.
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` And as part of my job, I do review business
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` records, I do have experience in my job. And
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` based on that day-to-day experience, that
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` personal knowledge I have acquired gave me the
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` ability to say what I've said in my
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` declaration.
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` Q. Then why does it say, or believe them to be
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` true based on your experience, review of
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` business records or information I have
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` otherwise received in the course of my duties?
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` A. Perhaps it should say and.
`
` Q. So, you get all the way to line 4 and there's
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` a mistake in your declaration?
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` MR. PARKER: Objection,
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` mischaracterizes his testimony.
`
` A. I don't think it's a mistake. I'm just trying
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` to clarify it for you because you've parsed it
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` a different way than I did.
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` Q. Looking down at paragraph 5, there's a
`
` sentence that says: MPI prepares and files
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` abbreviated new drug applications (ANDA) with
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` the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
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` Do you see that?
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` A. I'm sorry, you lost me. Where are you at?
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` Q. Paragraph 5, the third sentence.
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` A. MPI prepares and files abbreviated new drug
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` applications (ANDA) with the U.S. Food and
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` Drug Administration (FDA), correct statement.
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` Q. So, is that what happened in the situation
`
` involved with the ANDA that Mylan filed on
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` Pitavastatin?
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` MR. PARKER: Objection, vague.
`
` A. The Mylan entity that filed the abbreviated
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` new drug application for Pitavastatin was
`
` Mylan Pharmaceuticals, Incorporated.
`
` Q. Are you sure that Mylan, Inc. did not file the
`
` ANDA for Pitavastatin?
`
` A. Well, Mylan Pharmaceutical, Incorporated owns
`
` all of the ANDAs, so a subsidiary of Mylan,
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` Incorporated will own the ANDAs. Mylan,
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` Incorporated may file the ANDAs, actually do
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` the submission to the FDA.
`
` Q. So, this thing about MPI about filing the
`
` ANDAs is inaccurate; is that true,
`
` Mr. Jenkins?
`
` MR. PARKER: Objection,
`
` mischaracterizes his testimony.
`
` A. No. I mean, it's an ANDA that is owned by MPI
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` that is filed by, on their behalf, I guess you
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` could say, Mylan, Incorporated employees.
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` Q. That's not what this says, though,
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` Mr. Jenkins, is it? It says MPI prepares and
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` files ANDAs; right?
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` A. Again, I think you're just parsing this a
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` different way than I did.
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` Q. I'm parsing it according to what the words say
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` on the page, aren't I, Mr. Jenkins?
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` A. No, that's not the way I read it. MPI does
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` prepare the ANDAs and works with Mylan,
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` Incorporated so that they with can file these
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` ANDAs with the FDA. The actual employee that
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` sends the button over to the FDA is a Mylan,
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` Incorporated employee, in most instances.
`
` Q. Who?
`
` A. Who what?
`
` Q. Who is the person that presses the button that
`
` you just referenced?
`
` A. I'm sorry, I should be more clear. I don't
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` know if it's a button. I'm not involved in
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` the actual submission of ANDAs to the FDA, and
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` I don't know which person would have done that
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` in this instance.
`
` Q. If you're not involved in the actual
`
` submissions of the ANDAs, Mr. Jenkins, then
`
` how is this statement that MPI prepares and
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` files abbreviated new drug applications (ANDA)
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` with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration,
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` FDA based on your personal knowledge of the
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` facts?
`
` A. Because I've been working at Mylan for a year
`
` now and that's the way things worked. We've
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` filed multiple ANDAs since I have been there,
`
` I've talked with multiple people that work at
`
` Mylan, I know how the Mylan, Incorporated
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` entities work in conjunction with the
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` subsidiaries, and I know how we process ANDAs
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` to the FDA.
`
` Q. Based on one year of experience, is that what
`
` you said?
`
` A. I've been at Mylan, Incorporated since August
`
` of 2014.
`
` Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken
`
` before, Mr. Jenkins?
`
` A. I have.
`
` Q. How many times?
`
` A. Once.
`
` Q. What was the instance where you had your
`
` deposition taken?
`
` A. It was a lawsuit in which my law firm was
`
` seeking the repayment of outstanding legal
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` fees.
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` Q. Which law firm?
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` A. Howrey, LLP.
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` Q. So, are you generally aware, Mr. Jenkins, that
`
` you're required to tell the truth at your
`
` deposition?
`
` A. Absolutely.
`
` MR. PARKER: I would just instruct
`
` Mr. Jenkins to take the time that he needs to
`
` review his declaration that he feels
`
` necessary.
`
` MS. CARR: Counsel, I don't believe
`
` that coaching statements are allowed under the
`
` PTAB rules, so I would request that counsel
`
` kindly refrain from doing that.
`
` MR. PARKER: There was not a
`
` question pending.
`
` MS. CARR: You're not entitled to
`
` coach during a deposition, a cross-examination
`
` deposition, Mr. Parker, you should know that.
`
` BY MS. CARR:
`
` Q. Mr. Jenkins, looking at paragraph 18, you have
`
` a sentence there that says: I hereby declare
`
` that all statements made herein of my own
`
` knowledge are true and that all statements
`
` made on information and belief are believed to
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` be true.
`
` Do you see that, those three lines
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` there in paragraph 18, the beginning of that
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` sentence in paragraph 18?
`
` A. I do.
`
` Q. Could you tell me which statements that
`
` paragraph is referencing by all statements
`
` made on information and belief?
`
` A. I don't know how to answer that question.
`
` Q. Why not?
`
` A. I don't even know what you're asking me to do.
`
` Q. I'm asking you to tell me, looking at
`
` paragraph 18, what statements in your
`
` declaration are referenced by the language,
`
` all statements made on information and belief?
`
` A. Do you want to go through each one, each
`
` paragraph?
`
` Q. Sure, if you would like to.
`
` A. Is there a difference between on information
`
` and belief and on my own knowledge, I'm not
`
` sure I know the differentiation. I don't know
`
` if I can differentiate. I can tell you
`
` looking at paragraph 1, that's my title, I
`
` know that that's my title.
`
` Q. Mr. Jenkins, I believe earlier in your
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` testimony, you said that every statement in
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` your declaration is based on your own personal
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` knowledge of the facts; isn't that true?
`
` MR. PARKER: Objection,
`
` mischaracterizes his testimony.
`
` A. Yeah, I believe everything in here is based on
`
` my personal knowledge.
`
` Q. So, my question for you, again, is what
`
` language in your declaration is referenced by
`
` all statements made on information and belief.
`
` I want to know what statements in your
`
` declaration are made on information and
`
` belief.
`
` A. You mean as opposed to my own personal
`
` knowledge?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. Everything in here is based on my personal
`
` knowledge.
`
` Q. So, you have language that you just threw into
`
` your declaration that doesn't have any
`
` relevance to the declaration; is that right?
`
` MR. PARKER: Objection,
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` argumentative --
`
` A. Personally --
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` MR. PARKER: Let me finish.
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` Objection, mischaracterizes his testimony,
`
` harassing the witness, for one thing.
`
` A. I guess I would just point out it says and
`
` again. So, it says they're based on my
`
` knowledge and on information and belief to be
`
` true. I mean, my knowledge is based on
`
` information that I retained and saw in the
`
` course of my everyday employment, and that's
`
` the reason I believe them to be true. But
`
` they're based on my personal knowledge.
`
` Q. So, are we interpreting that sentence, you
`
` kind of just read the word that in that
`
` sentence there, didn't you, Mr. Jenkins? It
`
` says and that all statements made on
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` information and belief are believed to be
`
` true?
`
` A. I'm sorry, I don't see the, what you're trying
`
` to say.
`
` Q. Have you ever in your "career" heard of the
`
` concept of making a statement on information
`
` and belief?
`
` A. I have heard that.
`
` Q. Could you tell me what your general
`
` understanding of that language means.
`
` A. Based on information that I have seen, that is
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` the belief.
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` Q. Do you have an understanding as to whether
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` that language is used in circumstances where
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` the statement is not made on the bas
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