ORACLE EXHIBIT 1024
`
`ORACLE EXHIBIT 1024
`
`PART 3
`
`PART 3
`
`
`
`
`
`ORACLE EXHIBIT 1024
`
`PART 3
`
`PART 3
`
`
`
`
`
`09I10I2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`MR. ALBRIGHT: Yes, sir.
`
`THE COURT: That objection is overruled.
`
`You know,
`
`it's a fact that whether or not they wanted to get in the
`
`market or not or reasons for this person who is selling ends
`
`of it, how many more of these do we have?
`
`MR. ALBRIGHT: That's it, your Honor.
`
`THE COURT: Okay.
`
`MR. BAHLER: Let me restate that question. This is
`
`page 21,
`
`line 15.
`
`Q.
`
`"At this time, beginning of April 1996, how important was
`
`the Coronado product to Adaptec?
`
`A.
`
`It was extremely important.
`
`As the technology was
`
`evolving in the industry and we looked at as an influction
`
`point and our ability to get into the marketplace at the time
`
`that there was significant change in the marketplace."
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`Page 22,
`
`line 1.
`
`Q.
`
`"Did Adaptec dedicate resources to the Coronado project
`
`from that time?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`How many resources?
`
`A. Obviously,
`
`from a marketing perspective,
`
`the balance would
`
`have been engineering. There was a team of engineers working
`
`on the Fibre Channel piece out of Irvine, out of the Irvine
`
`office. That would include Mark O'Dell and his staff. There
`
`was.another team out of Milpitas developing Mason Emerald.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1231
`
`
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`09I10I2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`Those are the protocol chips. And then,
`
`there was the team in
`
`Boulder that was Longmont and Boulder; We started off in
`
`Boulder working on the bridges.
`
`From a marketing standpoint, how many
`
`Marketing? Me and my boss,
`
`Mr. Comstock?
`
`Yes.
`
`And yourself?
`
`Uh—huh."
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`Page 29,
`
`line 4.
`
`Q.
`
`"Where was the Coronado display at Comdex "96 —- fall
`
`Comdex '96?
`
`A.
`
`In the FCIA.
`
`And actually,
`
`I think it was the FCLC, Fibre
`
`Channel Loop Community which is an industry association that
`
`promotes the technologies. Had a floor space in which Fibre
`
`Channel-related companies would gather and talk about their
`
`technologies, and the product supporting those technologies.
`
`One of our potential clients customers was Unisys, and Unisys
`has a static display of Coronado that they showed to some of
`
`their customers.
`
`Q. Was that display of Coronado in connection with Unisys in
`
`the Fibre Channel Loop Community room, was that a private room
`
`or a public room?
`
`A. Public.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1232
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`
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`09!10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`Any of the attendees from Comdex '96 could go there?
`
`Yes."
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`Page 30,
`
`line 10.
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`"Did you attend Comdex fall '96?
`
`Yes.“
`
`Page 30,
`
`line 18.
`
`Q.
`
`"Let me show you what was marked at Mr. Lavan's deposition
`
`as Lavan Deposition Exhibit No. 8.
`
`Do you know what that is?
`
`A Q A
`
`Q A
`
`It is marketing slides and discussing the bridge products.
`
`Is Coronado included in these marketing slides?
`
`. Yes.
`
`Do you know who prepared these marketing slides?
`
`It would have been me.
`
`Q.
`
`How are they used within Adaptec?
`
`A. These were actually used. This is a customer
`
`presentation.
`
`So we would have started off describing the
`
`organization on the cover page and then, going into a road map
`
`.on page 2, which talks about the different products and market
`
`segments on the Y axis,
`
`time on the X axis, and then, going
`
`into block diagrams for each of the proposed products.
`
`Q. Specifically,
`
`turn to page 178642, and I'll get that on
`
`here. What is that a block diagram of?
`
`A.
`
`It is a block diagram of Coronado.
`
`Q. Did you create that block diagram?
`
`A. Yes:
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1233
`
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`Q. Based upon what?
`
`A. Based upon the engineering concepts of Coronado.
`
`Q. Was this document
`
`including that figure shown to
`
`prospective Adaptec customers?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`How many?
`
`A lot,
`
`ten to twenty."
`
`Okay.
`
`Page 32,
`
`line 7.
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`_Q.
`
`"At during what
`
`time? At what
`
`time?
`
`A. Well,
`
`the date on this is December of
`
`'96, so in our
`
`ability, you know, before and after that time."
`
`Page 33,
`
`line 3.
`
`Q.
`
`"Who was involved in those customer presentations on
`
`behalf of Adaptec?
`
`A.
`
`It would have'been primarily me, Jim Comstock or John
`
`Hartland.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you specifically recall such customer demonstrations
`
`before the end of 1996?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Using these materials?
`
`A. Yes."
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`Page 33,
`
`line 22.
`
`Q.
`
`"Let me show you what was marked at Mr. Kalwitz's
`
`deposition as Defendant's Exhibit 53.
`
`Do you know what that
`
`is?
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1234
`
`
`
`0911012001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Yes.
`
`What is it?
`
`A product brief.
`
`Do you know who prepared that?
`
`I prepared it.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Do you know the date that it was prepared?
`
`Boy, it doesn't have a date on here, but I would say that
`
`this would be probably in October.
`
`Well,
`
`I think what
`
`I did
`
`‘is I had it available for Comdex, so it would be October,
`
`early November of
`
`'96."
`
`Page 34,
`
`line 22.
`
`Q.
`
`"Did you actually distribute this product to prospective
`
`customers at
`
`Adaptec?
`
`Yes.
`
`Was that distribution done before the end of 1996?
`
`Yes.
`
`Page 38,
`
`line 20.
`
`"Defendant's Exhibit 40, do you know what that is?
`
`Yes.
`
`What is it?
`
`It's a press release for announcing the Fibre—to-SCSI
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q A
`
`.
`
`Q A
`
`.
`
`Channel migration.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Who prepared this?
`
`I would have prepared it in conjunction with Adaptec's
`
`corporate marketing organization.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1235
`
`
`
`0911012001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`How is this document used by Adaptec?
`
`It was used to formally announce and launch the program,
`
`make it public in the industry.
`
`Q. And, specifically, what product did this deal with,
`
`this
`
`May 6, 1997 press release?
`
`A.
`
`It announced the 7312A, which is the Fibre—to-SCSI one
`
`host device channel product incorporating the Emerald chip
`
`set.
`
`'. Q. What does it have to do with Coronado?
`
`That is Coronado."
`
`Page 40,
`
`line 5.
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`"Do you know when the Las Vegas show was?
`
`Yeah,
`
`I think it was May of '97.
`
`Was
`
`the Coronado present at that show?
`
`Yes."
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`Page 40,
`
`line 23.
`
`Q.
`
`"Why did you take Coronado to the Net World Conference in
`
`May of l§97?
`
`A.
`
`To create public awareness and to get potential
`
`customers."
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`Page 44,
`
`line 8.
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`"Did you have Coronado at fall Comdex '97?
`
`I'm sure we did.
`
`Why are you sure that you did?
`
`' Because that would have been a very key and strategic demo
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1236
`
`
`
`om1onoo1 Chapana|Tfia|-Day4
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`for us and, again, would have been demo'd in the —— in our
`
`suite.
`
`Q. Did you attend the fall Comdex '97 show?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Did you actually participate in the demonstration of
`
`Coronado for prospective customers?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`In fall Comdex '97?
`
`A. Yes."
`
`Page 45,
`
`line 5.
`
`Q.
`
`"Was Brooklyn ultimately -— well, strike that. was the
`
`Coronado product AKA 7312 ever released for sale to customers?
`
`A.
`
`It was released. There were some people designing it, and
`
`I think when Adaptec pulled the plug, it probably was never
`
`completed.
`
`Q. Was it ever offered for sale? Not actually sold, but ever
`
`offered for sale?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I'm sure we sold some.
`
`When was that? This is Coronado?
`
`Yes.
`
`Do you know when that was?
`
`It would have been Q4 of '97."
`
`Page 60,
`
`line 17.
`
`"You mentioned Vegas interim?
`
`Yes.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1237
`
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`Q. were you at the Vegas —- present at that booth?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Again, with respect to the Coronado here, you said you
`
`don't recall whether it was an active demo?
`
`A.
`
`I'm certain it was.
`
`You have that actual recollection?
`
`Yes,
`
`I do.
`
`Is it the same --
`
`Yes.
`
`—-
`
`type of demo we talked about before?
`
`Well, it would have been a functional demo that by this
`
`Q A Q
`
`.
`
`A Q A
`
`point would probably be a fairly robust demo.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know whether it was a product that could do all the
`
`things it was supposed to do?
`
`A. Well, all the things it was supposed to do,
`
`the road map
`
`had numerous features that ultimately were to be added,
`
`included.
`
`I
`
`think the basic functionality, yeah, was all
`
`there. Advanced features probably would not be.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know whether it had the capability of doing reserve
`
`release at that time?
`
`A.
`
`I believe so because the key attribute for that is for
`
`clustering and that was pretty -- a pretty functional, pretty
`
`basic requirement for us, and that was one that we would have
`
`been able to demonstrate, pass certifications."
`
`That's the end of defendant's designations, sir.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1238
`
`
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`O9I10I2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`MR. ALBRIGHT:
`
`No cross.
`
`"THE COURT: You may step down.
`
`MR. BAHLER: Plaintiff calls Mr. Allen Permut.
`
`THE COURT:
`
`Just come forward, please.
`
`(Witness was sworn.)
`
`THE COURT: All right.
`
`You need to walk around this
`
`column up here and sit in the witness booth, please.
`
`If
`
`you'll tell us your full name, please, sir, and spell your
`
`last.
`
`THE WITNESS: My name is Allen R. Permut. That's
`
`spelled P—E-R—M—U—T.
`
`ALLEN R. PERMUT, called by the Defendant, duly sworn.
`
`DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. BAHLER:
`
`Q. Morning, Mr. Permut. Who do you work for, sir?
`
`I work for Chaparral Network Storage.
`
`And what's your position at Chaparral?
`
`Manager of Software Development.
`
`How long have you worked there, sir?
`
`I've worked there since January 1st of 2000, so about one
`
`Q.
`
`A
`
`years and eight months.
`Q. Okay. And what are your responsibilities as Manager of
`
`Software Development?
`
`A.
`
`I supervise a team of software engineers that develop
`
`features and functions for RAID and_router controllers, and,
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1239
`
`
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`09I10I2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`also, you know,
`
`I'm responsible for their scheduling of any
`
`development work and field 4- handle any field issues relating
`
`to software in our products.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`How long have you worked in the field of computer storage?
`
`I've worked in the field of computer storage about 11 and
`
`a half years.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you have any patents issued in your name?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I do.
`
`I have five patents, all in high-tech fields.
`
`Two of them specifically in the field of computer storage and
`
`RAID controllers.
`
`Q. Would you please tell the members of the jury your college
`
`education?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`I have a Bachelor's Degree from the University of
`
`Colorado, Boulder,
`
`issued in 1974, and a Master's Degree in
`
`Engineering Management, which I received from University of
`
`Colorado, Boulder, also, while I was employed at Storage
`
`Technology Corporation.
`
`Q.
`A.
`
`Now, what products have you worked on while at Chaparral?
`I really work on all of the products at Chaparral, all of
`
`the RAID controllers, all of the storage routers,
`
`specifically, as I said before, supervising the work of the
`
`software engineers developing software for those products.
`
`Q. All right, sir.
`
`Now, how many people work for you at
`
`Chaparral
`
`today?
`
`A.
`
`I currently have nine people reporting to me.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1240
`
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4'
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`Q. Does that include Mr. Davies?
`
`A. Yes, it does.
`
`Q. Okay. Are you familiar with CAPI and pass—through as
`
`they're used within Chaparral?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I'm also --
`
`Q.
`
`How do you have that familiarity?
`
`A. Well, being responsible for the software that's embedded
`
`in our products and all of the interfaces to it, as well,
`
`I
`
`have to be very familiar with CAPI.
`
`It's a key management
`
`application and interface embedded in our products. And I've
`
`used manager products,
`
`so I need to be familiar with those and
`
`all of the functions associated therewith.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`is this CAPI thing,
`
`is it actually included in
`
`Chaparral products?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`CAPI is used extensively internally to our products
`
`as well as externally.
`
`The embedded firmware has CAPI
`
`functionality.
`
`It's used in the management for menu user
`
`interface, as well, and, of course,
`
`that provides all of the
`
`books,
`
`the interfaces,
`
`the way to interact with the
`
`controllers using the -— and the external CAPI application.
`
`Q.
`
`How do customers find out about CAPI?
`
`A. Well,
`
`that really starts when the sales and marketing
`
`folks talk to any prospective customers or to our customers.
`
`They make the customers and users aware of CAPI that it's a
`
`very rich set of features for configuring and managing our
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1241
`
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`products.
`
`So, you know,
`
`they're exposed to that right from the
`
`start when they're interested in our products. Also, all of
`
`our sales literature or marketing data sheets, sales data
`
`sheets and marketing literature have CAPI described as the
`
`configuration interface to use with our products, as well,
`
`in
`
`our users guides, we have reference to the CAPI interface
`
`spec, specification, so they're aware of it in that form,
`
`also.
`
`Q. All right. Let's take a look at Defendant's Exhibit 268.
`
`A Q
`
`A
`
`I don't have my notebook up here, but I'll use the screen.
`
`. What is Exhibit 268?
`
`This is a typical marketing data sheet,
`
`this particular
`
`one is for the K series external RAID controllers, explicitly
`
`- the K 7413 and K 5412.‘
`
`Q.
`
`Look down here. What is that language dealing with in the
`
`low right-hand corner of that exhibit?
`
`A. Yes. This is talking about the Chaparral configuration
`
`application programming interface, or CAPI for short,
`that is
`part of our product-and that we provide the specification and
`
`the developers kit to facilitate users to develop applications
`
`to use CAPI.
`
`Q. Okay. This is for the 7413 product?
`
`A. That's correct.
`
`‘ Q.
`
`Is there similar language in the marketing material for
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1242
`
`
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`o9/1o/2oo1 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`the other products at issue in this case?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`there is.
`
`Q. Okay. Take a look at Defendant's Exhibit 198. What is
`
`that?
`
`A. This is the users guide for that same product,
`
`the K7413.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Is this the only user guide that Chaparral has or
`
`there's several?
`
`A.
`
`Oh, no. There's a users guide, really, for every product
`
`that we develop and sell.
`
`Q.
`
`Take a look within Defendant's Exhibit 198 to page bearing
`
`bates No. 185618, which is page 1-10. What is that? That's a
`
`page within the user guide?
`
`A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`And what is that page dealing with?
`
`It calls out
`
`the documents that we refer our users to,
`
`other documents that are pertinent and -- okay.
`
`Q.
`
`Included among the Chaparral documents is the Chaparral
`
`CAPI function specification. What's that?
`
`A. That is the specification, if you will, a set of basically
`
`instructions on how to use the CAPI interface.
`
`Q. Okay. Does Chaparral keep CAPI secret from its customers?
`
`A.
`
`No, not at all.
`
`As
`
`I said, we talk about CAPI with our
`
`customers right from the start in meetings with customers. We
`
`-- as I say, we reference it in our sales literature, and here
`
`again, and we provide it freely without charge on our web site
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1243
`
`
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`09I10I2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`to all of our users and customers.
`
`Q. Okay. Mr. Permut, please take a look at Defendant's
`
`Exhibit 221 in your book. What is that?
`
`A. This is a —— it's a little bit hard to read there on the
`
`page, but
`
`I recognize this as a CAPI functional specification.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`A.
`
`‘On some of the other pages,
`
`they show it at the top,
`
`the
`
`actual.
`
`Q.
`
`Do you know what version that is?
`
`A. Yes, as you can see there, it's Version 2.8.
`
`Q. Okay. Have there been any —— have there been subsequent
`
`versions of this CAPI spec?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`there are.
`
`Since the 2.8 —— and they're not
`
`necessarily in chronological order due to some parallel
`
`development —— there's also CAPI Version 3.0, 3.1 and 3;2.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Do all those versions have the CAPI add host
`
`command in them?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`they do. Well, actually, not CAPI 3.0 but 3.1 and
`
`3.2 do.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, why doesn't --
`
`A.
`
`2.8, as well.
`
`Q. Okay. And this is an example of something that can be
`
`gotten from Chaparral's web site?
`
`A. Yes, that's correct.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`And how would a customer go about getting that
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1244
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`information?
`
`A.
`
`They —- very simply make a request either to their sales
`
`associate or to —- or to our tech support group, and they
`
`would set up a log—in for them on our web site and provide all
`
`the appropriate documentation for the products that they're
`
`using including this CAPI functional specification.
`
`Q. Did Chaparral charge for this CAPI?
`
`A. No. That's completely free, and we let customers know
`
`that right from the start.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, you personally know of any Chaparral customers who
`
`have obtained a CAPI
`
`in a manner that you just described?
`
`A. Yes. There's quite a number of them. Off the top of my
`
`head,
`
`I can think of in store, Ospecs, Nexsan, Terra
`
`Solutions, Urlogic,
`
`those are some of them that come to mind.
`
`Q. All right, sir.
`
`Now, what is —- I'd like to move on to
`
`the issue of pass—through. What is pass-through?
`
`A.
`
`Pass—through is a capability of issuing a command to our
`
`controller to directly access any of the devices that are
`
`attached behind our controller.
`
`For example, a disk device or
`
`a tape device, and allows that command to pass directly to
`
`those devices.
`
`Q. Does Chaparral keep —— well, first of all,
`
`is that a
`
`capability that's in the Chaparral products?
`
`A. Yes, it is.
`
`It's in our RAID products, we have the CAPI
`
`pass—through, which is.actually the command that's used that's
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1245
`
`
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`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
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`called CAPI SCSI maintenance.
`
`And there's also a second type
`
`of pass—through, which,
`
`in engineering land, we call raw
`
`pass—through or direct pass—through, both of those were
`
`supported.
`
`Q.’ Does Chaparral keep pass-through secret from its
`
`customers?
`
`A. No, not at all.
`
`In this CAPI functional spec,
`
`there is a
`
`reference to the CAPI SCSI maintenance command and, you know,
`
`so customers certainly learn about that and have access to
`
`that. And we also provide a -- another document on the direct
`
`pass-through if they're interested in that.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`You just mentioned that it's mentioned in this
`
`document,
`
`this is Defendant's Exhibit 268.
`
`I've highlighted a
`
`portion of page_Roman four of the table of contents.
`
`A. Right.
`
`Q.
`
`SCSI maintenance is mentioned there.
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What.does that have to do with pass-through?“
`
`A
`
`That allows a passing through a command,
`
`a SCSI
`
`maintenance command, for example, would be something like to
`
`perform an inquiry to a device or read capacity, test unit
`
`ready,
`
`format a drive. And there's also a mechanism for doing
`
`a command that is a command contained within a command, as
`
`well, and that allows greater flexibility, still.
`
`Q.
`
`Please take a look at Defendant's Exhibit 232.
`
`You
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1246
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`mentioned raw pass—through. What is Exhibit 232?
`
`A. This is the first page of a document that we provide
`
`freely to customers to do raw pass—through. Did you have a
`
`specific question about that?
`
`Q. Well,
`
`in that document, it talks about
`
`the command is one
`
`of —— in this section, it says any -- the array is —- or it
`
`says, commands sent to an array member, disk are permitted
`
`only if -- and it lists some.
`
`Command is one of the inquiry
`
`—- what does that section mean?
`
`A. Well, it's talking about when drives are in an array,
`
`there are certain commands which would not be of any concern
`
`because you have data stored in an array, you wouldn't want to
`
`risk any of that data.
`
`And these are informational-type
`
`commands that are always allowed to go through to drives
`
`whether they're in an array or whether it's a spare drive or
`
`an unused drive, or what have you.
`
`So these are examples of commands that are
`
`pass—through regardless.
`
`Q. All right, sir.
`
`Now, are you familiar with the
`
`modification that was made to the Chaparral products that
`
`became effective first on August 2nd, and then, August 31st,
`
`2001?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I am.
`
`Q. What were those modifications?
`
`A. Modifications were made basically to ensure that the
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1247
`
`
`
`09/1 012001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`device can be configured by any host, any server that's
`
`connected to our controllers, really, at any time.
`
`It always
`
`assures that capability.
`
`Q. Okay. Please take a look in your book at Defendant's
`
`Exhibits 192, 193, 194, 259 and 260.
`
`Do you see those, sir?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I do.
`
`Q. What are those?
`
`A. These are what we call engineering change notices.
`
`They're the formal method that engineering communicates to the
`
`rest of our organization that a change has been made.
`
`Q. All right. Let me put up Defendant's Exhibit 1992 and use
`
`it as an example. What specifically does this engineering
`
`change --
`
`A.
`
`Up at the very top row there and the description section,
`
`it calls out a change in firmware for the A8526, which is one
`
`of our RAID controller units.
`
`So this is a software
`
`modification to that product.
`
`Q. Okay. Please turn to the next page. And there's
`
`something called feature change. What is that feature change?
`
`What does that deal with?
`
`A. That's talking about what I mentioned before,
`
`the ability
`
`for any host or server connected to our device to always be
`
`able to configure and manage the controller.
`
`So this is the
`
`software change to make sure that that controller LUN, which
`
`is the communication mechanism,
`
`is always available. This is
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1248
`
`
`
`09'/1o/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`part of our release notes that are communicated to our
`
`customers, as well,
`
`so that they know what the change is.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, as of August 2nd, what products were —- what
`
`products specifically were modified?
`
`A. This one that's indicated here,
`
`the A8526, and, also,
`
`two
`
`of our router products,
`
`FS 2620 and the FS—l220.
`
`Q. Okay. And is there similar language in the engineering
`
`changes for those products?
`
`A. Yes, similar in the router products,
`
`there's also a change
`
`to not allow zoning of the controller LUN, as well, that's
`
`called the router one in the case of routers.
`
`Q. Let's take a look at Defendant's Exhibit 193. First of
`
`all, what is this?
`
`A. This is a similar engineering change notice. This one is
`
`for the product FS—l220, which is one of our router products.
`
`Q. All right, sir. Next page,
`
`there's the description of the
`
`change again?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. What does that description relate to again?
`
`MR. GIUST: Objection. Calls for an opinion.
`
`THE COURT:
`
`It's overruled.
`
`You may answer.
`
`A. That's the same change that I described before for the
`
`RAID products,
`
`the portion highlighted there.
`
`It allows the
`
`—- any workstation or server to communicate in all cases using
`
`CAPI
`
`to control or configure a controller.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1249
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. BAHLER) Okay.
`
`Now, who did the modifications that
`
`we just talked about?
`
`A.
`
`The principal people involved in that were Mr.
`
`Ian Davies
`
`and a Mr. Monty Gilstrap.
`
`Q.
`
`How much time did it take you to modify —— how much time
`
`did it take to modify each of those products?
`
`A.
`
`It took approximately four person days between those two
`
`individuals.to actually make the code changes and do some
`
`reasonable level of engineering tests and then, it took four
`
`to five days in our product test group for all three of those
`
`products to go through and do the testing to verify that the
`
`change was made correctly.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, we talked about five products altogether,
`
`correct?
`
`A. Well,
`
`I
`
`think you only asked me about —- initially anyhow
`
`about the ones changed August 2nd.
`
`Q. Okay. Well,
`
`there were five —— five products have been
`
`changed altogether, right?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Two more were changed. That change was effective,
`
`I
`
`believe it was August 31st.
`
`Q. All right.
`
`So you mentioned three or four days for the
`
`modification and three or four days for tests?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. That's person days?
`
`A.
`
`‘ Yes.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1250
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Is that for each product?
`
`A.
`
`In that case,
`
`that was for those first three products,
`
`the
`
`8526,
`
`the FS—262O and the FS—l220, because we had already made
`
`those changes.
`
`A lot of our code bases shared code,
`
`so making
`
`that change for the other two products, which we did effective
`
`August 31st, was a little quicker than that because we'd
`
`already had the experience of making that change and knew
`
`exactly what we had to do.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, has Chaparral sold any of these modified products?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`they have.
`
`Q. When did Chaparral start selling these products?
`
`A.
`
`I believe shortly after the August 2nd modification was
`
`made,
`
`I know of product that was shipped very shortly after.
`
`I believe it was the next week after to Overland Data.
`
`Q. All right.
`
`And Chaparral received any units back from any
`
`customers because of the modification?
`
`A. No,
`
`they have not.
`
`Q. Has Chaparral let its customers know about the
`
`modification?
`
`A. Yes. These release notes that you see still up here on
`
`the screen are communicated to our users and customers to
`
`inform them what the changes are in any software change or
`
`actually, you know,
`
`there are release notes if there were
`
`hardware changes, as well. But this particularly deals with
`
`the software change.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1251
`
`
`
`09/1 (M2001 Chaparral Tria|_- Day 4
`
`Q. All right. Has Chaparral received any order of
`
`cancellation because of the modification?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q.
`
`To your knowledge, does Chaparral changed its prices to
`
`any of its products due to product change?
`
`A. No.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, you were the software development —— I'm sorry, what
`
`was your title again?
`
`A. Manager of Software Development.-
`
`Q.
`
`If there are problems in the field with software —— first
`
`of all,
`
`is this a software change or a hardware change?
`
`A. This is strictly a software change.
`
`Q. And if there are problems in the field as the Manager of
`
`Software Development, would you learn about those problems?
`
`,_A. Unfortunately, that's one of the characteristics of my
`
`job.
`
`If there's a problem,
`
`I usually hear about it.
`
`Q.
`
`To your knowledge, has any Chaparral customer suffered any
`
`problems due to that modification?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I've heard no problems reported, no complaints about this.
`
`Now, Mr. Permut, since January 2001, has Chaparral
`
`continued to sell routers and RAID products without LUN
`
`zoning?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`they have.
`
`Q. Does Chaparral still sell them today?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`they do.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1252
`
`
`
`0911 012001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q.
`
`Can you give us some examples of those products that don't
`
`include LUN zoning?
`
`A. Our router product FS-1310 does not
`
`include LUN zoning nor
`
`do any of our SCSI—to—SCSI RAID products.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, has Chaparral had any routers or RAID products
`
`sent back from customers because they do not support LUN
`
`zoning?
`
`A. No,
`
`they have not.
`
`Q.
`
`Pass the witness.
`
`THE COURT:
`
`I'm going to let the jury have their
`
`morning break. Members of the jury, 15 minutes.
`
`Remember the
`
`instructions.
`
`(Jury not present.)
`
`THE COURT: All right. Fifteen minutes.
`
`(Recess.)
`
`THE COURT:~ Bring them in.
`
`(Jury present.)
`
`THE COURT} Mr. Permut, you understand you're still
`
`under oath, sir?
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes, sir;
`
`THE COURT:
`
`You may proceed.
`
`CROSS-EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. GIUST:
`
`Q. Morning, Mr. Permut.
`
`A.
`
`-Good morning.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1253
`
`
`
`09l10l2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q.
`
`You talked about on direct some changes that were made to
`
`some Chaparral products?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Changes that were made on August 2nd of this year?
`
`That's correct.
`
`That were created to the A8526, FS—2620, FS—122O products?
`
`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Changes made on August 31st,
`
`just a few weeks ago?
`
`That's also correct.
`
`And what products were changed at that time?
`
`The G8324 and the G7324L
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`So there were no changes made to any of the
`
`Chaparral K Series RAID controllers?
`
`A. That's correct.
`
`Q. Okay.
`Now, you mentioned that these changes were pretty
`simple to do;
`is that right?
`
`A.
`I mentioned how long it took to do them, and, yes,
`weren't terribly difficult, no.
`
`they
`
`0
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`A. Straightforward.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`How long did it take to implement those changes?
`
`It took about four days for the first group of products,
`
`those first three products to implement
`
`those changes,
`
`the
`
`actual software developer effort, and then, about four or five
`
`‘days in our product test lab to test, again, all three of
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1254
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`those.
`
`Q. And do you know the cost per hour -4 did you allocate any
`
`money to how much that would have cost?
`
`A. We didn't keep specific separate budget for that, but
`
`I
`
`believe that our sort of overall averaged cost for manpower in
`
`the engineering group is about $85 an hour burden.
`
`Q.‘ And was that eight hours a day for those four days?
`
`A. Nominally.
`
`Q.
`
`You mentioned on direct some testimony you gave about
`
`pass—through commands -- I'm sorry, about CAPIL
`
`Do you recall
`
`that?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And CAPI is an interface specification that Chaparral has,
`
`right?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Okay. And in order to use this CAPI, do you need to get
`
`the CAPI software development kit or the CAPI functional
`
`specification?
`
`A. Yes. That certainly facilitates its use.
`
`Q. And are those obtained from the Chaparral web site?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`they are.
`
`Q. Let me show you Exhibit 608.
`
`Is this a copy of the
`
`Chaparral web site?
`
`A. Yes, or at least it sure looks like it.
`
`Q. Any reason to believe this isn't the Chaparral web site?
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1255
`
`
`
`0911012001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4'
`
`No.
`
`Does it look true and accurate?
`
`Certainly does.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me show you 609.
`
`Do you see at the top, underneath
`
`support,
`
`there's been a drop—down menu that's opened up?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Does this look like a true and accurate copy of the web
`
`site to you?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. Let me show graphic 610 underneath support.
`
`You see that
`
`there's a members area that was clicked on, screen came up
`
`requiring user name password?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I see it.
`
`Q. Does that look like a true and accurate copy of
`
`Chaparral's web site to you?
`
`A. Yes, it does.
`
`Q. Your Honor, offer Exhibits 604 -- 608, 609 and 610 into
`
`evidence.
`
`MR. BAHLER:
`
`‘No objection, your Honor.
`
`THE COURT: They're received.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. GIUST) To obtain the Chaparral CAPI
`
`information,
`
`one would need to go enter a user name password here in the
`
`web site; is that right?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And if one did that, would you get something looking like
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1256
`
`
`
`0911 0/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Exhibit 611 here?
`
`A.
`
`‘Looks reasonable, yes.
`
`Q. Okay. And if the password were accepted, you get what
`
`looks like 612?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think that's probably correct.
`
`Q. Okay. Offer 611 and 612.
`
`MR. BAHLER:
`
`No objection.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. GIUST) Okay.
`
`And the CAPI
`
`information would be
`
`obtained after you get to 612 by clicking on product
`
`information as shown here on 613;
`
`is that right?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And to get the CAPI for a specific product, would you
`
`click on the product shown here on Exhibit 613?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I believe so.
`
`Q. Offer 613.
`
`MR. BAHLER:
`
`No objection.
`
`THE COURT:
`
`611, 12 and 13 are in.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. GIUST) Okay. Let's go down the page.
`
`Show you
`
`Exhibit 614. Exhibit 614 shows the information you get after
`
`clicking underneath the A8526 product on the web page;
`
`is that
`
`right?
`
`A. Yes, sir.
`
`Q. Offer 614.
`
`Ma. BAHLER:
`
`No objection.
`
`THE COURT: Received.
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1257
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. GIUST) Then, if you scroll down the page, do we
`
`get what's shown here in 615?
`
`A. That
`
`looks correct.
`
`Q. Offer 615.
`
`MR. BAHLER:
`
`No objection.
`
`Q.
`
`(BY MR. GIUST) Okay.
`
`So to download this CAPI
`
`information, you have to get all the way to 615 here, and you
`
`click on these various links that say,
`
`for example, cap
`
`2.8SDK?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. That CAPI 2.8, would this allow the downloader to use the
`
`CAPI specification?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. And CAPI 2.8SDK, does that allow someone to download the
`
`CAPI 2.8 software development kit?
`
`A. ‘That's correct.
`
`Q. And those are required to implement these CAPI
`
`applications that you discussed, correct?
`
`A.‘ Certainly facilitates it, yes.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, going back to 611, while we have a password
`
`here, a user isn't supplied with a password when they purchase
`
`a Chaparral product;
`
`is that right?
`
`A.
`
`To be honest,
`
`I'm not sure that that's necessarily the
`
`case.
`
`I think that that's managed by our sales accountant
`
`team. Whether they get them a password immediately when they
`
`Oracle Ex. 1024, pg. 1258
`
`
`
`09/10/2001 Chaparral Trial - Day 4
`
`become a purchasing customer or whether they make a request,
`
`I
`
`don't have first-hand knowledge of.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`So it could be the case that they request a
`
`password after they receive the product?
`
`A. Correct.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`On your direct exam, you mentioned two kinds of
`
`pass-through that Chaparral uses;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`‘One is a pass—through that's associated with this CAPI
`
`concept.
`
`Do you recall that? And in order to use that
`
`password, you'd have to get this CAPI
`
`information, first,
`
`wouldn't you?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q. And another kind of password you mentioned was
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