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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` CASE NO.: IPR2015-00990
` Patent: 7,056,886
`COALITION FOR AFFORDABLE DRUGS, II, LLC,
` Petitioner,
`vs.
`NPS PHARMACEUTICALS, INC.,
` Patent Owner.
`--------------------------------------------------------
` VIDEO DEPOSITION
` OF
` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` taken on behalf of the Patent Owner
` pursuant to a Notice of Taking Deposition
` HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - Attorneys Eyes Only
`
` DATE: Wednesday, May 11, 2016
` TIME: 9:18 a.m.
` PLACE: Hilton Conference Center
` 1714 Southwest 34th Street
` Gainesville, Florida
` REPORTER: Ingrid T. Cox, RPR
` Notary Public, State of Florida at Large
` Job no. 107130
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`NPS Ex. 2171
`CFAD v. NPS
`IPR2015-00990
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`APPEARANCES:
`
` MATTHEW FEDOWITZ, ESQUIRE
` Merchant & Gould
` 1701 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
` Attorneys for Petitioner.
`
` JOSEPH ROBINSON, ESQUIRE
` HEATHER MOREHOUSE ETTINGER, ESQUIRE
` Troutman Sanders
` 875 Third Avenue
` New York, New York 10022
` Attorneys for Patent Owner.
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`JACK LUBRANT, Videographer
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS: PAGE
`ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` Examination by Mr. Robinson 324
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` E X H I B I T S
`NUMBER PAGE
`Composite Exhibit 2500
`(Reply Declaration) 324
`Exhibit 2501
`(Pharmaceutical Education) 326
`Exhibit 2502
`(Dissolution of Suppositories V) 328
`Exhibit 2503
`(Dissolution of Suppositories IV) 331
`Exhibit 2504
`(Portrait of Rocky Mountain Drug Wholesaling) 331
`Exhibit 2505
`(Dissolution of Suppositories III) 331
`Exhibit 2506
`(Pharmaceutical Technology) 331
`Exhibit 2507
`(Medical Incidents) 331
`Exhibit 2508
`(Drug Development and Industrial Pharmacy) 331
`Exhibit 2509
`(Microencapsulation and Dissolution) 331
`Exhibit 2510
`(A Model for Multivariate Prediction) 331
`Exhibit 2511
`(An Undergraduate Experiment) 331
`Exhibit 2512
`(Drug Therapy at a Frontier Fort Hospital) 331
`Exhibit 2513
`(Effect of Dissolved Oxygen Levels) 331
`Exhibit Number 2514 - no exhibit marked
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` E X H I B I T S (cont.)
`NUMBER PAGE
`Exhibit 2515
`(Dissolution of Prednisone Microcapsules) 331
`Exhibit 2516
`(Production of a Coacervate Film) 331
`Exhibit 2517
`(Multivariate Prediction of Academic Success) 331
`Exhibit 2518
`(A Student Experiment in Biopharmaceutics) 331
`Exhibit 2519
`(Scholarly Open Access article) 336
`Exhibit 2520
`(WO 98/25955) 353
`Exhibit 2521
`(Label for GATTEX) 423
`Exhibit 2522
`(Protein Therapeutics) 492
`Exhibit 2523
`(Definition of well versed) 510
`Exhibit 2524
`(Figure 3) 513
`Exhibit 2525
`(History and Development of Incretin Therapy) 518
`Exhibit 2526
`(Citation: CFR 445 1999) 539
`Exhibit 2527
`(Definition of micelle) 548
`Exhibit 2528
`(Investigation of Histidine) 645
`Exhibit 2529
`(DHEA Sulfate) 659
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` E X H I B I T S (cont.)
`NUMBER PAGE
`Exhibit 2530
`(Particulate Matter in Injections - 1985) 692
`
`Exhibit 2531
`(Particulate Matter in Injections - 2000) 695
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` REPORTER'S KEY TO PUNCTUATION:
`
` -- At the end of question or answer references
` interruption.
` ... References a trail-off by the speaker. No
` testimony was omitted.
`
` "Uh-huh" References an affirmative sound.
`
` "Uh-uh" References a negative sound.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` VIDEOGRAPHER: Time on the video record 9:18
`a.m. Today's date May 11th, 2016. My name is Jack
`Lubrant representing Veritext. This deposition is
`being held at the Hilton, 1714 34th Street,
`Gainesville, Florida. It's being taken by counsel
`for the defense. The caption of the case is
`Coalition for Affordable Drugs, II, LLC, versus NPS
`Pharmaceuticals, Inc., U.S. Patent and Trademark
`Office, Case Number IPR2015-00990, 01093, Patent
`7,056,886. This deposition is of Dr. Anthony
`Palmieri.
` At this time the attorneys present in the room
`will identify themselves for the record. Then our
`court reporter, Ingrid Cox, will swear in the
`witness.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Matthew Fedowitz, on behalf of
`petitioner, from Merchant & Gould in Washington.
` MR. ROBINSON: Joseph Robinson and Heather
`Ettinger on behalf of NPS Pharmaceuticals from
`Troutman Sanders.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`Thereupon,
` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.,
`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Dr. Palmieri, we've had the pleasure of having
`one deposition already so I guess you remember the
`rules?
` A. It's always good to go over them again, but I
`think I do, but let's be sure.
` Q. Sure. I'll ask you questions. You can answer
`the questions. If your counsel objects you still need
`to answer the question unless he instructs you not to
`answer the question.
` A. I understand.
` Q. I'm going to show you -- I'll introduce a copy of
`your reply declaration and these IPRs. This is the one
`from IPR01090 of the declarations that were essentially
`identical.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: This is all the exhibits also?
` MS. ETTINGER: Yes.
` MR. ROBINSON: All the exhibits.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Great. Thanks a lot.
` (Composite Exhibit 2500 was marked for
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`Identification.)
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 2500?
` A. I believe so. It appears to be, without going
`through every page, a copy of my -- one of my reply
`reports, there were two, and also a number of exhibits.
` Q. Let's turn to Exhibit 1002 of Composite
`Exhibit 2500, and that is your CV, correct?
` A. That was the CV -- that is an earlier copy of my
`CV. I retired June 30th of 2015 and I believe that I
`referenced that in my reply report. But it's the same
`except I'm now retired and I'm an adjunct faculty member
`in pharmaceutics.
` Q. Take a look at page seven of Exhibit 1002,
`please.
` A. Yes.
` Q. That's a list of publications one through 19,
`correct?
` A. Yes. That is a list of what we refer to as
`refereed publications.
` Q. Let me show you -- just a second. Pages seven
`through eight of your CV list your publications,
`correct?
` A. Page -- beginning on page seven lists my
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`refereed publications, those being articles that have
`been published in refereed journals. The rest of
`page eight and continuing onto page nine are different
`books and chapters in books that I've written, yes.
` Q. Okay. I'll show you what we're going to mark as
`Exhibit 2501.
` (Exhibit 2501 was marked for
`Identification.)
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do you recognize this publication?
` A. I certainly do.
` Q. What is it?
` A. The title of the publication is Intellectual
`Property and the Pharmaceutical Scientist - A View From
`the Other Side. This was -- this appeared in the
`American Journal of Pharmaceutical Education in 1989.
` Q. Is article 2501 on obviousness under 35USC103?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Does article 2501 discuss obviousness under
`35USC103?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` THE WITNESS: This publication was over 25 years
` ago. I would have to review the publication.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Go ahead.
` A. And your question is does this article -- what is
`your question again?
` Q. Does this article discuss obviousness under
`35USC103?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I have read the article through.
` And I need your question back, please.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Does this article discuss obviousness under
`35USC103?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I am not a lawyer. I see nowhere
` in here that it refers to the document that you cite
` about obviousness, so I don't think it does, unless
` you want to point out a specific place.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay. Exhibit 2501 corresponds to article one on
`page seven of your CV in Exhibit 2500, correct?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Okay. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss formulation of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss stabilization of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss lyophilization of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss degradation of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does 2501 discuss glucagon?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss GLP-2?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2501 discuss GLP-2 analogs?
` A. No.
` MR. ROBINSON: We're going to mark this as
` Exhibit 2502.
` (Exhibit Number 2502 was marked for
`Identification.)
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 2502?
` A. Certainly.
` Q. What is it?
` A. This is an article published in 1986 in a
`refereed journal, Drug Development and Industrial
`Pharmacy, the title of which is Dissolution of
`Suppositories V: Influence of Aging on Aspirin Release
`From Polyethyleneglycol Suppositories With and Without
`Crospovidone.
` Q. Okay. And Exhibit 2502 corresponds to article
`number two on page seven of your CV, correct?
` A. I believe that's correct, yes.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss formulation of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss stabilization of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss lyophilization of
`peptides?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss degradation of
`peptides?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss glucagon?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss GLP-2?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 discuss GLP analogs?
` A. No.
` Q. Does Exhibit 2502 -- I'm sorry. I'll cut this
`short. Do any of the articles one through 19 on pages
`seven through eight of your CV discuss the formulation
`of peptides?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection. There's no document in
` front of him.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. I'll give you all the documents, I'll go
`through them one by one.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Yeah. I think if we want to
` introduce them as one group or something just so he
` can take a look at them. Whatever the official way
` to do it would be.
` MR. ROBINSON: Sure. Okay. Let's introduce --
` we'll mark as Exhibit 2502 -- or is it -- 2503.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Do you want to introduce them all
` as one exhibit?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. ROBINSON: I'll introduce them separately so
` that when he's referring to them he can refer to them
` separately, but then I'll ask a group question. I
` think that's the easier way to do it.
` (Exhibit 2503 was marked for
`Identification.)
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Is this 2503?
` MR. ROBINSON: Yes. 2504, 2505, 2506, 2507,
` 2508, 2509, 2510, 2511, 2512, 2513. This is 2514.
` This is 2515.
` (Exhibits 2504 through 2518 were marked for
`Identification.)
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Did you give me yours?
` MR. ROBINSON: If you want it you can have it.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Is it 2511 or is it 2513?
` MR. ROBINSON: 2511 is the 1979 article
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Biopharmaceuticals?
` MR. ROBINSON: Yeah, Undergraduate Experiment in
` Biopharmaceuticals.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Okay.
` MR. ROBINSON: This is 2518.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Yeah. You keep yours. I need
` Number 13. Excuse me, I have -- is this 13? Oh,
` okay. This is 2512.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. ROBINSON: What's the name of it?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Drug Therapy at a Frontier Fort.
` MR. ROBINSON: Yeah, 2512. This is 2515.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Well, I need 13.
` THE WITNESS: My 13 and 14 --
` MR. FEDOWITZ: I don't have those two.
` THE WITNESS: 13 and 14 in my hands here seem to
`be the same document.
` MR. ROBINSON: Let's take a look.
` THE WITNESS: They certainly have the same title.
` MR. ROBINSON: Oh, you know what, that's probably
`your 13.
` THE WITNESS: Do you want to make it 13 or 14?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: So which one do we want to call --
`what is this one?
` MR. ROBINSON: 13 is the Pharmaceutical Science,
`1978.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Okay. So this is 14.
`Pharmaceutical Science. These two are the same.
` MR. ROBINSON: Which two?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: 13 and -- well, I think one of
`those is mine.
` MR. ROBINSON: This is 13. This is your 13.
`Then we have 14, which is Canadian Pharm. That is
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` marked at 15. We'll leave it at 16. This is 16.
` This is 17. This is 18.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Dr. Palmieri, do you recognize Exhibits 2502
`through 2518?
` A. They appear to be copies of articles that I have
`written. Understanding that I think we skipped one
`number, but the documents that you have given me as
`exhibits appear to be copies of my refereed
`publications.
` Q. Okay. Do any of your refereed publications
`discuss formulation of peptides?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection. I'll represent that
` this is not a comprehensive set of exhibits for all
` of Dr. Palmieri's publications.
` MR. ROBINSON: I'm looking at his CV right now.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do any of your refereed publications on
`page seven or eight concern the formulation of peptides?
` A. Under -- on my CV on pages seven and eight
`concerning refereed publications, as I recall in looking
`at them again, they do not include formulation of
`peptides.
` Q. Do any of your refereed publications on pages
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`seven and eight of your CV discuss stabilization of
`peptides?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Do any of those publications discuss
`lyophilization of peptides?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Do any of those publications discuss degradation
`of peptides?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: Not that I recall.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do any of those publications discuss glucagon?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Do any of those publications discuss GLP-2?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. Do any of those publications discuss GLP-2
`analogs?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. What does the history of pharmacy have to do with
`the present IPRs?
` A. I don't understand the question.
` Q. Is the history of pharmacy related to the present
`IPRs?
` A. You ask a very -- use a very diffuse term, the
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`history of pharmacy.
` Q. Well, you use that term in your declaration,
`don't you?
` A. Correct. Part of my interest is in history of
`pharmacy, yes.
` Q. What does the history of pharmacy have to do with
`the present IPRs?
` A. I still don't -- I don't understand the question.
`You have to rephrase it or --
` Q. Is the history of pharmacy relevant to the
`present IPRs?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: Again, you ask a very broad -- you
` use the phrase history of pharmacy. I...
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. You say that I'm the author of over 80
`publications and presentations on pharmaceutics,
`intellectual property, dosage forms, dissolutions,
`pharmacy education and the history of pharmacy. That's
`on paragraph five of your declaration, CFAD,
`Exhibit 1041. Now, I want to know what history of
`pharmacy has to do with present IPRs?
` A. You read it correctly. In paragraph five of my
`declaration I state I am the author of over 80
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`publications and presentations on pharmaceutics,
`intellectual property, dosage forms, dissolutions,
`pharmacy education and the history of pharmacy.
` Q. Okay. And I want to know if the history of
`pharmacy is relevant to the present IPRs.
` A. In general the history of pharmacy, which would
`include pharmaceutical patents, would be relevant.
` Q. I'll show you what we're going to mark as
`Exhibit 2519.
` (Exhibit 2519 was marked for
`Identification.)
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Joe, are we going back to these?
` Did you say 2519?
` MR. ROBINSON: Yes.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Do you know of Scholarly Open Access?
` A. I've never seen this document, no.
` Q. This article is from website
`HTTPS://scholarlyOA.com/individual-journals/. Could you
`please read the first paragraph under potential possible
`or probable predatory scholarly open access journals?
` A. I believe what you're referring to is the
`following: This is a list of questionable scholarly
`open access standalone journals. For journals published
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`by a publisher please look for the publisher on the list
`of publishers here (HTTPS://scholar -- excuse me,
`scholarlyOA.com/publishers/). This list is only for
`single standalone journals.
` Q. Okay. And let's take a look at your CV again.
`It's Exhibit 1002. And in Exhibit 1002, page five, it
`says that you're a member of the editorial advisory
`board of the Journal of Chemical and Pharmaceutical
`Sciences, correct?
` A. It does state that I am the editorial -- I am a
`member of the editorial advisory board and I -- I'm
`sorry, I don't recall which one you mentioned.
` Q. Journal of Chemical and Pharmaceutical Sciences.
` A. Yes, I see that.
` Q. And it says also that you're a member of the
`editorial advisory board of the Research Journal of
`Pharmaceutical, Biological and Chemical Sciences,
`correct?
` A. I see that, yes.
` Q. And on the list attached to Exhibit 2519 of
`questionable scholarly open access standalone journals
`the list includes Journal of Chemical and Pharmaceutical
`Sciences, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` THE WITNESS: What page are you pointing to.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. 26.
` A. And what was the journal again?
` Q. Chemical and Pharmaceutical Research.
` A. That is on there, yes.
` Q. Yes. And the list in Exhibit 2519 of
`questionable scholarly open access standalone journals
`also includes the Research Journal of Pharmaceutical,
`Biological and Chemical Sciences, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection to the characterization
` of whatever this website is. What page are you
` looking at?
` MR. ROBINSON: Page 31.
` THE WITNESS: It's on this list, yes. This is
` the first time I've seen this list.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay.
` A. Again, I've never seen that document before.
` Q. Now, some of the publications that we discussed
`earlier in your CV on pages seven to eight discuss
`intellectual property, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` THE WITNESS: The number one refereed
` publications is titled Intellectual Property and the
` Pharmaceutical Scientist - A View From the Other
` Side. That was an article that was published in the
` journal and also a presentation to academicians. I
` believe that's the only one that talks about
` intellectual property.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. And you were an intellectual property liaison at
`some time during your career, correct?
` A. When I was at Upjohn I was in the research and
`development group at the Upjohn company in Kalamazoo and
`one of my titles was -- I had a number of titles. One
`of them was patent liaison.
` Q. And what were your duties as patent liaison at
`Upjohn?
` A. My duties would vary from throughout my 15 years
`or so at the Upjohn Company. I was hired in 1985, as I
`recall, and I had the title senior patent liaison
`scientist. My responsibilities as part of a scientist
`in the research and development division included
`talking to scientists about their experiments because I
`was recognized as a person with knowledge in that area.
`It also included being a member of project teams for
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`drug development along with other team members. And it
`also -- part of it was to be, as the name implies, if
`there was -- if the project team had a question that we
`needed a lawyer to handle I was the person that would
`discuss that with the lawyers.
` Q. Okay. And as a patent liaison you're aware that
`an inventor does not need to include everything in a
`patent specification that he considered in making his
`invention, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know that. I'm not a
` lawyer.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Are you aware that an inventor does not need to
`include what was know in the prior art in a patent
`specification?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know
` that.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay. Are you aware that an inventor does not
`need to include examples in a patent specification?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know the
` answer to that.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Are you aware that a specification need only set
`forth what the applicant regards as his invention with
`sufficient particularity and distinctiveness?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question?
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Are you aware that a patent specification need
`only set forth what the applicant regards as his
`invention with particularity and distinctness?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not a lawyer. I don't know the
` answer to that. That's why I would talk to the
` lawyers. I am not a lawyer.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Let me show you what we've previously marked as
`Exhibit 1003. That's U.S. patent number 7,056,886.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: This is the same one.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. ROBINSON: Okay. Yeah, I'm going to
` introduce them separately.
` THE WITNESS: What is the -- I prefer to use the
` one in the binder since there's not a staple. Yes.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. The 886 patent does not claim the characteristics
`of GLP-2, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I don't understand the question.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay. What are the characteristics of GLP-2?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: That's a different question than
` you asked previously.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Let's make it easy, okay? Let's go to
`paragraph nine --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- of your declaration. And in paragraph nine on
`page four, first bullet, you refer to the
`characteristics of GLP-2 or analogs thereof. What are
`the characteristics of GLP-2 or analogs thereof to which
`you're referring to?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` A. I'm sorry, I can't find the bullet point.
` Q. I'm sorry. Paragraph ten, first bullet.
` A. Paragraph ten.
` Q. Paragraph ten, first bullet, page four, you refer
`to the characteristics of GLP-2 or analogs thereof.
`What I'd like to know is what characteristics of GLP-2
`or analogs thereof you're referencing.
` A. Paragraph -- bear with me for a minute, please.
`Paragraph ten, first bullet?
` Q. Right. I'm referring to Exhibit 1041.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Do you want to point him to it?
` MR. ROBINSON: Yeah.
` THE WITNESS: Right. I talk about this and the
` statement reads, paragraph ten, first bullet, "The
` inventor of the 886 patent did not consider the
` characteristics of GLP-2 or analogs thereof that Dr.
` Carpenter discusses at length as complexities in
` formulating proteins and peptides despite the claims
` encompassed in a large number, for example, thousands
` of GLP-2 analogs. Therefore, they shouldn't be
` considered complexities now just because Dr.
` Carpenter says so."
` That's the statement.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. You read it correctly. And now I'm asking you
`what are the characteristics of GLP-2 or analogs thereof
`to which you're referencing?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection.
` THE WITNESS: I'm referring to ones that Dr.
` Carpenter discussed in that where Dr. Carpenter
` discusses the number of different reactions that can
` occur, the number of different physical chemical
` parameters there, is what -- I'm replying, if you
` will, to what Dr. Carpenter states.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay. And the 886 patent does not claim the
`number of different reactions that can occur that you
`just referenced, correct?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I don't -- I don't understand the
` question.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Does -- do you know where the claims are of the
`886 patent?
` A. Certainly they begin on com 12, line
`approximately eight.
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` Q. Can you show me which claim of the 886 patent
`claims the number of different reactions that can occur
`with respect to GLP-2?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, calls for a legal
` conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing any number of
` reactions. However, again, that would call for a
` legal conclusion.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Can you show me where -- which claim of the 886
`patent claims a number of different reactions that can
`occur with respect to any GLP-2 analogs?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection, legal conclusion.
` THE WITNESS: Again, that's a legal conclusion
` and I cannot answer that question.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. You can take a look at the claims and show me if
`you find it.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: I need the question again, please.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Sure. Can you show me which claim of the 886
`patent claims a number of different reactions that can
`occur with respect to GLP-2 analogs?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Objection. Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: These are mostly formulation
` claims, not react claims involving reactions, as I
` read it from my nonlegal standpoint.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Can you show me which claims of the 886 patent
`claim the chemical -- chemical physical properties of
`GLP-2?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Again, I'm looking at it from a
` science standpoint, not a legal standpoint. I would
` read these mostly as formulation claims. This is a
` formulation number of claims.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Can you show me which of the claims of the 886
`patent claim the chemical physical parameters of GLP-2
`analogs?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question,
` please?
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Can you show me which of the claims of the 886
`patent claim the chemical physical parameters or
`properties of GLP-2 analogs?
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` ANTHONY PALMIERI, III, Ph.D.
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Again, these appear to be from a
` nonlegal standpoint, and I am not a lawyer, these
` appear to be formulation or simulated formulation
` cases -- claims. I'm not a lawyer. So no.
`BY MR. ROBINSON:
` Q. Okay. Can you show me which 886 patent claim
`claims the complexities to which you refer in
`paragraph ten, first bullet, of your declaration?
` MR. FEDOWITZ: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: And the same ans