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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` FORD MOTOR COMPANY, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case Number
` ) IPR2014-01415
` PAICE LLC and ABELL )
` FOUNDATION, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY L. STEIN, Ph.D.
`
` Southfield, Michigan
`
` Friday, May 29, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`
`RACHEL F. GARD, CSR, RPR, CLR, CRR
`
`REF NO. 14261B
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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` 1
`
`PAICE 2213
`Ford v. Paice & Abell
`IPR2015-00792
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` FORD MOTOR COMPANY, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case Number
` ) IPR2014-01415
` PAICE LLC and ABELL )
` FOUNDATION, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` DEPOSITION OF JEFFREY L. STEIN, Ph.D.
`
` Southfield, Michigan
`
` Friday, May 29, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`
`RACHEL F. GARD, CSR, RPR, CLR, CRR
`
`REF NO. 14261B
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
` 1
`
`PAICE 2213
`Ford v. Paice & Abell
`IPR2015-00792
`
`
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`Page 2
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` May 29, 2015
`
` 1:06 p.m.
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` Deposition of JEFFREY L. STEIN, Ph.D., at
`
`the offices of Brooks Kushman, P.C., 1000 Town
`
`Center, Suite 2200, Southfield, Michigan,
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`pursuant to notice before Rachel F. Gard,
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`Certified Shorthand Reporter, Registered
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`Professional Reporter, Certified LiveNote
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`Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` BROOKS KUSHMAN, PC
`
` Attorneys for Petitioner
`
` 1000 Town Center
`
` 22nd Floor
`
` Southfield, Michigan 48075
`
` Phone: 248.358.4400
`
` Email: aturner@brookskushman.com
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` fangileri@brookskushman.com
`
` BY: ANDREW B. TURNER, ESQ.
`
` FRANK ANGILERI, ESQ.
`
` FISH & RICHARDSON
`
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
`
` 1425 K Street, NW
`
` 11th Floor
`
` Washington, DC 20005
`
` Phone: 202.783.5070
`
` Email: guarnieri@fr.com
`
` BY: W. PETER GUARNIERI, ESQ.
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
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`WITNESS PAGE
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`JEFFREY L. STEIN, Ph.D.
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` Cross-examination by Mr. Guarnieri 5
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` E X H I B I T S
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`STEIN EXHIBIT PAGE
`
` Exhibit 7 Declaration of Dr. Jeffrey 5
` L. Stein in Support of
` Second Petition for Inter
` Partes Review
`
` Exhibit 8 U.S. Patent No. 8,214,097 14
`
` Exhibit 9 U.S. Patent No. 5,343,970 14
`
` Exhibit 10 Toyota Technical Review, 73
` Volume 47, No. 2,
` April 1998
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` (Witness previously sworn.)
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`WHEREUPON:
`
` JEFFREY L. STEIN, Ph.D.,
`
`called as a witness herein, having been
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`previously duly sworn, was examined and
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`testified as follows:
`
` CROSS-EXAMINATION
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`BY MR. GUARNIERI: 01:06
`
` Q. Dr. Stein, you're still sworn in 01:06
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`today from the morning. 01:06
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` A. I agree to be. 01:06
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` Q. We're going to ask you questions now 01:06
`
`on IPR2014-04015. 01:06
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` MR. GUARNIERI: Why don't we mark 01:06
`
` our first exhibit. 01:06
`
` (Stein Exhibit Number 7 marked for 01:06
`
` identification.) 01:06
`
`BY MR. GUARNIERI: 01:07
`
` Q. It should be now Exhibit 7. 01:07
`
` A. Yes. 01:07
`
` Q. And can you identify what Exhibit 7 01:07
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`is? 01:07
`
` A. Declaration of Dr. Jeffrey L. Stein 01:07
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`in Support of Second Petition for Inter Partes 01:07
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`Review under a bunch of numbers, and this is 01:07
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`for IPR Case Number IPR2014-01415. 01:07
`
` Q. And the patent subject of this IPR 01:07
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`is 8,214,097. You recognize that as the '097 01:08
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`patent, right? 01:08
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` A. Correct. 01:08
`
` Q. And can you confirm that that's your 01:08
`
`signature on Page 320 of your declaration, 01:08
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`which for the record is Ford Exhibit 1102? 01:08
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` A. Yes. I'm not a handwriting expert, 01:08
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`by the way, but it looks like my signature. 01:08
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` Q. I hope you signed it and not someone 01:08
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`else, sir. 01:08
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` A. I certainly signed it. 01:08
`
` Q. Good. 01:08
`
` Dr. Stein, when was this declaration 01:08
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`executed? 01:08
`
` A. When did I sign it? 01:08
`
` Q. When did you sign this declaration? 01:09
`
` A. August 29th, 2014. 01:09
`
` Q. So between August 29th, 2014 and 01:09
`
`today, have any of your opinions expressed in 01:09
`
`Exhibit 7 changed that you're aware of sitting 01:09
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`here today? 01:09
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` A. I'm not aware of any opinions 01:09
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`expressed in this declaration that I wrote on 01:09
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`and signed on August 29, 2014 that aren't also 01:09
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`true today or that I would stand behind today. 01:09
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` Q. And then on Pages, I believe it's 01:10
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`322 to 349, this is the resume that you 01:10
`
`submitted along with your declaration; is that 01:10
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`correct? I believe it's Appendix A. 01:10
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` A. Yes. That's my CV, or one of my 01:10
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`CV -- or one form of my CV, I should say. 01:10
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` Q. So this declaration looks like it 01:10
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`was last updated in January of 2014. Has 01:10
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`anything changed on the resume relevant to this 01:10
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`IPR? 01:10
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` A. Well, certainly my CV has changed 01:10
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`since then. I have additional publications 01:11
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`that probably are not listed here. I'm happy 01:11
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`to give you an updated CV, if you'd like it. 01:11
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`There may be an award that's not on here; I'm 01:11
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`not sure. But there's certainly possibilities 01:11
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`of some things that have changed to it. 01:11
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` Q. If you look on Page 347, you have a 01:11
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`list of cases that you've -- testimony history 01:11
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`for the past 5 years, are there any additional 01:11
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`cases that you have testified in in the past 01:11
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`roughly year and few months? 01:11
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` A. Of course there's this matter, which 01:12
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`isn't listed here, right? 01:12
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` Q. Aside from these matters. 01:12
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` A. So in what form of testimony? Does 01:12
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`it matter? 01:12
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` Q. Well, we'll take them one at a time. 01:12
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`Have you testified in any District Court cases 01:12
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`in the last year that aren't listed on here? 01:12
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` A. I don't believe so. 01:13
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` Q. Have you been deposed in any 01:13
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`additional matters in the last year that aren't 01:13
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`listed here? 01:13
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` A. No. I don't believe so. It would 01:13
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`be helpful to have my records in front of me, 01:13
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`but I don't think so from memory. 01:13
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` Q. Have you submitted any declarations 01:13
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`in any other IPRs in the last year other than 01:13
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`the PAICE/Ford IPR? 01:13
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` A. Yes. 01:13
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` Q. And what would those be -- That 01:13
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`aren't listed on your resume? 01:13
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` A. Yes. 01:13
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` Q. And what would those be? Do you 01:13
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`remember the names of the IPRs or the names of 01:13
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`the company you were retained by in each one? 01:13
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`Why don't we start with that. 01:13
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` A. I don't remember the formal case 01:14
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`caption or, you know, the parties caption off 01:14
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`the top of my head. I'd have to look it up. 01:14
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`I'm glad to provide it to you, but I don't ... 01:14
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` Q. Well, why don't we -- How about 01:14
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`this? How many IPRs have you worked on, 01:14
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`submitted declarations in, in the past year 01:14
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`that are not listed on your CV? 01:14
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` A. So two IPRs with the same client, if 01:14
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`you will. 01:14
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` Q. And which client is that? 01:14
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` A. Well, that's -- I'm not sure the 01:14
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`precise way that the client would want to be 01:15
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`described. But I can say that loosely 01:15
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`speaking, it's Chrysler. Chrysler is owned by 01:15
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`Fiat, and it's some formal name that I don't 01:15
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`remember off the top of my head. 01:15
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` Q. I understand. Do you recall which 01:15
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`law firm you're working with in those few 01:15
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`matters? 01:15
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` A. I think the law firm's name is 01:15
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`Venerable. Does that sound familiar? 01:15
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` Q. Venable perhaps? 01:15
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` A. Venable, thank you. 01:15
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` Q. So other than those two IPRs, have 01:15
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`you submitted declarations or expert reports of 01:15
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`some kind in any other proceedings in the past 01:15
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`year that are not listed on your CV? 01:15
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` A. Yes. 01:16
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` Q. So what else? 01:16
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` A. So I've submitted a declaration or 01:16
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`report/declaration, I don't remember which 01:16
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`formal title the document had, under a 01:16
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`different case than the IPR matter I just 01:16
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`described. 01:16
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` Q. What is that case? 01:16
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` A. That case was called, captioned 01:16
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`Claire versus Chrysler. 01:16
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` Q. And were you also working for 01:16
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`Chrysler in that matter as well? 01:16
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` A. Yes. 01:16
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` Q. Do you know if that matter was 01:16
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`related to the IPRs that you were working on? 01:16
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` A. It's not. 01:16
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` Q. Okay. So other than the IPRs and 01:16
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`the report or declaration -- sorry, actually 01:16
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`let me -- a quick followup, this Claire versus 01:16
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`Chrysler, is this a District Court case? 01:17
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` A. I don't remember. 01:17
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` Q. So other than this Claire versus 01:17
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`Chrysler matter and the two IPRs that we just 01:17
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`discussed, are there any other reports or 01:17
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`declarations that you've submitted in the last 01:17
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`year that are not listed on your CV, other than 01:17
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`the PAICE matters, of course? 01:17
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` A. I don't believe so. But again, I 01:17
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`like to leave open the possibility of checking 01:17
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`my records to see if I just am forgetting to 01:17
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`include one. 01:17
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` Q. Sitting here today, you just don't 01:17
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`recall any others? 01:17
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` A. Correct. 01:17
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` Q. Dr. Stein, do you consider yourself 01:17
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`to be an expert in the relevant field for the 01:17
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`'097 patent? 01:18
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` A. Well, I'm not sure if you're asking 01:18
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`me to make a legal determination, which is what 01:18
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`it sounds like. 01:18
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` Q. Your lay understanding of what the 01:18
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`term "expert" means. 01:18
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` A. So I believe that I'm an expert in 01:18
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`mechanical engineering as applied to automotive 01:18
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`engineering, and more specifically I have 01:18
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`expertise in hybrid electric vehicle design and 01:18
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`control. So I believe that I have expertise in 01:18
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`the areas that are in the fields or in the 01:18
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`concepts that are presented in the '097 patent. 01:19
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` Q. Why don't we turn to Paragraph 39 of 01:19
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`your declaration. Based on the definition of 01:19
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`the relevant field for purposes of the '097 01:19
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`patent that you give in Paragraph 39 of 01:19
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`Exhibit 7, are you an expert according to your 01:19
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`lay understanding of the term "expert" in that 01:20
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`relevant field? 01:20
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` MR. TURNER: Objection. Form. 01:20
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` Vague. 01:20
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`BY THE WITNESS: 01:20
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` A. I mean I stand by the paragraph that 01:20
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`is written here. 01:20
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` Q. Yes, I'm not asking you about the 01:20
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`basis of the paragraph, sir. I'm asking you to 01:20
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`use the definition that you've given in the 01:20
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`paragraph. And based on that definition of the 01:20
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`relevant field for purposes of the '097 patent, 01:21
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`I'm asking you, are you an expert in the 01:21
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`relevant field? 01:21
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` A. So the wording I use here is that: 01:21
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`Methods and apparatuses for controlling and 01:21
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`operating a hybrid electric vehicle and methods 01:21
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`for improving fuel economy and reducing 01:21
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`emissions. And I believe that I have expertise 01:21
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`in these areas from my lay understanding of 01:22
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`what the word "expert" means. 01:22
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` Q. Does that include designing hybrid 01:22
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`powertrain control strategies and the related 01:22
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`architecture? 01:22
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` MR. TURNER: Objection. Vague. 01:22
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`BY THE WITNESS: 01:22
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` A. You're reading what I have written 01:22
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`in the second -- the next paragraph, 01:22
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`Paragraph 40, that I have extensive experience 01:22
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`in the relevant field including experience 01:22
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`related to hybrid powertrain control strategies 01:22
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`and related architecture. Based on my 01:22
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`experiences, I have established an 01:23
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`understanding of the relevant field. I believe 01:23
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`that's a true statement. 01:23
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` Q. That wasn't quite my question. My 01:23
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`question was: Do you have experience designing 01:23
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`hybrid powertrain control strategies and the 01:23
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`related control architecture? Your declaration 01:23
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`says you have experience relating to it. I'd 01:23
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`just like to know whether you've designed a 01:23
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`hybrid powertrain and control strategy? 01:23
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` A. I mean, the answer -- Excuse me. So 01:23
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`what do you mean, you know -- So the answer is 01:23
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`yes, I have been involved in working with my 01:23
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`students in research on the design and control 01:23
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`of hybrid electric vehicles, and we've looked 01:23
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`at some unique control strategies for hybrid 01:24
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`electric vehicles. 01:24
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` Q. Great. Thank you. Let's mark a few 01:24
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`more exhibits. 01:24
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` (Stein Exhibit Number 8 marked for 01:24
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` identification.) 01:24
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` (Stein Exhibit Number 9 marked for 01:24
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` identification.) 01:24
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`BY MR. GUARNIERI: 01:25
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` Q. So, Dr. Stein, the court reporter 01:25
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`has just placed in front of you what has been 01:25
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`marked first as Exhibit 8, which is Ford 01:25
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`Exhibit 1101, U.S. Patent No. 8,214,097. 01:25
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` Do you recognize this exhibit? 01:25
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` A. Yes, I do. 01:25
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` Q. And do you recognize this as the 01:25
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`'097 patent that's the subject of this IPR? 01:25
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` A. Yes. 01:25
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` Q. And then if you look at Exhibit 9 01:25
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`that's marked as Ford Exhibit 1104, it's U.S. 01:25
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`Patent No. 5,343,970, and do you recognize this 01:25
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`exhibit? 01:25
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` A. Yes, I do. 01:25
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` Q. And is this the Severinsky '970 01:25
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`patent that you referred to? 01:25
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` A. In my declaration, yes. 01:25
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` Q. And while we're talking today, if I 01:25
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`refer to Severinsky, you'll understand that I'm 01:25
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`referring to this patent or converse, the '970 01:26
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`patent, either one? How about this? Let me 01:26
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`strike that and ask: What would you prefer to 01:26
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`refer to this patent as? 01:26
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` A. The '970. 01:26
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` Q. All right. We'll call this the '970 01:26
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`patent. Sometimes it's a little confusing with 01:26
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`the '097 and '970. I just want to make sure 01:26
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`we've got our numbers straight. 01:26
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` A. Sure. 01:26
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` Q. So, Dr. Stein, why don't you put 01:26
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`Exhibit 9, the '970 patent, in front of you. 01:26
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`And are you familiar with the '970 patent's 01:26
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`low-speed mode? 01:26
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` A. So I've reviewed the '970 patent, 01:26
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`and I understand that the words low speed, 01:26
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`perhaps low-speed mode perhaps exist in this 01:27
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`patent. Is that what you're asking me? 01:27
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` Q. So if the words exist in the patent, 01:27
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`do you recognize that the '970 patent teaches a 01:27
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`low-speed mode of operation? 01:27
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` A. It has a mode of operation which it 01:27
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`utilizes when the vehicle is operating where 01:27
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`the output torque required to propel the 01:27
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`vehicle is relatively small, which is typical 01:27
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`of around town or in traffic or what this 01:27
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`patent sometimes calls the low-speed mode. 01:27
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`It's just a label or a proxy for the operation 01:28
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`of the vehicle when the torque output required 01:28
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`to propel the vehicle is low. 01:28
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` Q. What do you mean by label or proxy? 01:28
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` A. So the '970 describes the hybrid 01:28
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`vehicle as operating in different modes, and it 01:28
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`describes these modes in terms of the output 01:28
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`torque required to propel the vehicle, which 01:28
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`I've outlined in my declaration. And the -- 01:28
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`So, for example, it has a mode called highway 01:29
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`cruising mode. That's a label or proxy for 01:29
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`when the torque values are at a certain amount 01:29
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`where the engine is in its efficient range of 01:29
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`operation and is used alone to propel the 01:29
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`vehicle. So -- 01:29
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` Q. Dr. Stein, in answering my question, 01:29
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`you've used the exact same phrase. What do you 01:29
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`mean by label or proxy? 01:29
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` A. It's a set of words or name that is 01:29
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`meant to be a shorthand notation for referring 01:29
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`the reader to a specific mode of operation. So 01:30
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`the, quote/unquote, low-speed mode refers to a 01:30
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`mode which the torque is relatively smaller and 01:30
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`where the motor alone is used to propel the 01:30
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`vehicle without the engine, so that's kind of a 01:30
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`long set of words to use. 01:30
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` The patent uses this label or proxy, 01:30
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`if you will. Rather than using it with a long 01:30
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`set of words, it uses a shorthand notation and 01:30
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`calls this a low-speed mode because with these 01:30
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`low torques, the vehicle is generally traveling 01:30
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`in something we might call, you know, lower 01:30
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`speeds. 01:30
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` Q. So looking at the '970 patent, can 01:30
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`you identify for me where '970 discloses 01:30
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`operating in low-speed mode based on the output 01:31
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`torque required to propel the vehicle? 01:31
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` A. Well -- So I refer you to my 01:31
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`declaration, Paragraph 194, which is under the 01:33
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`heading 1.7. It's claim 1.7: Operating the at 01:33
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`least one electric motor to provide torque to 01:33
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`the hybrid vehicle when the torque required to 01:33
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`operate the vehicle is less than capital S, 01:34
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`capital P. What I'll normally say is SP. 01:34
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` And then I say in Paragraph 194: 01:34
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`With reference to Figure 3, Severinsky '970 01:34
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`discloses that the microprocessor 48 controls 01:34
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`the motor 20 to ensure that the appropriate 01:34
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`torque is delivered to the wheels 34. 01:34
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` And then there's a quote: Thus, as 01:34
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`discussed in connection with Figure 3, 01:34
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`microprocessor 48 is provided with all 01:34
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`information relevant to the performance of the 01:34
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`system and appropriately controls the torque 01:34
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`transfer unit 28, internal combustion engine 01:34
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`40, switching unit 28, and electric motor 20 to 01:34
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`ensure the appropriate torque is delivered to 01:34
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`the wheels 34 of the vehicle. And that quote 01:34
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`is from '970, Column 12, Line 64 through Column 01:34
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`13, Line 2. 01:35
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` Q. All right. So let me stop right 01:35
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`there, and let's talk about that quote. 01:35
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` Now, Severinsky is saying here that 01:35
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`the electric motor is controlled to ensure that 01:35
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`appropriate torque is delivered to the wheels 01:35
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`of the vehicle. Isn't that the case for any 01:35
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`vehicle, hybrid or not, that is using an 01:35
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`electric motor, to provide torque to the wheels 01:35
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`regardless of what the control system is? 01:35
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` A. Can you repeat your question, 01:35
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`please? 01:35
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` Q. Sure. This paragraph that you're 01:35
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`quoting in Paragraph 194 of Exhibit 7, the 01:35
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`characterization of how the electric motor 01:36
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`works in this paragraph is going to be true for 01:36
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`any vehicle that is using electric motor for 01:36
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`propulsion? 01:36
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` A. I think you're mischaracterizing or 01:36
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`not understanding the paragraph. The paragraph 01:36
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`is talking about the microprocessor and talking 01:36
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`about all the information that it is using and 01:36
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`how it controls a bunch of different things, 01:36
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`including the electric motor, to ensure that 01:36
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`the appropriate level of torque is delivered to 01:36
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`the wheels of the vehicle. 01:36
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` Q. So first off, the paragraph is 01:36
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`talking about the microprocessor and talking 01:36
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`about all the information that it is using. 01:36
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`The only statement it says here is 01:36
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`microprocessor is provided with all relevant 01:36
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`information. 01:36
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` There's no details there about what 01:36
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`actual information is provided to the 01:36
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`microprocessor here, right? 01:36
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` A. Well, not in that paragraph. But 01:37
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`there's figures and other details that show 01:37
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`what kind of information the microprocessor is 01:37
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`provided. It says Figure 3, and here's 01:37
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`Figure 3. 01:37
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` Q. That's fine. I just want to talk 01:37
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`about this paragraph for a second. 01:37
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` Let's move on to the fact that the 01:37
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`microprocessor controls the electric motor. 01:37
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` A. Now, the -- 01:37
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` Q. The fact that the microprocessor 01:37
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`controls the electric motor to ensure that 01:37
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`appropriate torque is delivered to the wheels 01:37
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`of the vehicle. Now, all that is saying is the 01:37
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`microprocessor is telling the electric motor to 01:37
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`provide torque to the wheels of the vehicle, 01:37
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`right? 01:37
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` A. I think you cut me off. And I was 01:37
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`saying that Figure 3 is part of that paragraph. 01:37
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`It says as discussed in connection with 01:37
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`Figure 3. That's the first part of the quote. 01:37
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`And Figure 3 does show a variety of details 01:37
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`about what is provided to the controller, okay. 01:37
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` Q. And so when it controls the electric 01:37
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`motor, to ensure that appropriate torque is 01:37
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`delivered to the wheels of the vehicle, isn't 01:37
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`that statement about controlling the electric 01:38
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`motor true about any vehicle that uses an 01:38
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`electric motor for propulsion? Isn't it always 01:38
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`going to be the case that an electric motor 01:38
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`used for propulsion has to ensure that the 01:38
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`appropriate torque is delivered to the wheels 01:38
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`of the vehicle? 01:38
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` MR. TURNER: Objection. Vague. 01:38
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`BY THE WITNESS: 01:38
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` A. I don't really understand your 01:38
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`question. This paragraph doesn't just talk 01:38
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`about the electric motor, but it does talk 01:38
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`about the microprocessor determining how to 01:38
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`control these different elements that are 01:38
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`discussed in the paragraph such that the 01:38
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`appropriate torque is delivered to the wheels 01:38
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`of the vehicle. 01:38
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` And if we would continue on to the 01:38
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`next paragraph, we can specifically talk about 01:38
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`this low-speed mode that you were talking about 01:38
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`before and where I was describing that this 01:38
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`torque was provided in that mode of operation 01:38
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`by the electric motor alone. 01:38
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` So in Paragraph 195, Severinsky '970 01:39
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`discloses that the electric motor is operated 01:39
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`to provide all of the torque needed to move the 01:39
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`hybrid vehicle in a capital low, capital speed, 01:39
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`capital mode. The first letters are 01:39
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`capitalized. 01:39
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` And then the quote is Figure 4, 01:39
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`which is provided in my declaration, 01:39
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`illustrates the operation in slow speed 01:39
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`circumstances --
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