Page 1
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`DALLAS DIVISION
`
`3:11-CV-367-O
`
`Jury TriaT VoTume 2
`
`ApriT 2, 2013
`
`)
`)
`)
`
`) )
`
`SUMMIT 6 LLC,
`PTaintiff,
`
`v
`RESEARCH IN MOTION CORP.,
`Defendants.
`
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE REED C. O'CONNOR
`
`United States District Judge
`In Da77as, Texas
`
`jcampbeTTGmckooTsmith.com
`
`FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`
`MR. THEODORE STEVENSON, III.
`MCKOOT Smith
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-4000
`Fax: 214/978-4044 FAX
`tstevenson@mckooTsmith.com
`
`MR. PHILLIP M. AURENTZ
`McKooT Smith PC
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-4206
`Fax: 214/978-4044
`
`paurentz@mckooTsmith.com
`
`MS. ASHLEY N. MOORE
`McKooT Smith PC
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-6337
`Fax: 214/978-4044
`amoore@mckooTsmith.com
`
`JOHN B. CAMPBELL
`MR.
`MCKOOT Smith
`300 W 6th St
`Suite 1700
`
`Austin, TX 78701
`512/692-8730
`Fax: 512/692-8744
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TL' EX- 2004
`Page 1 of 31
`
`Facebook v. TLI Communications
`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
`Page 1 of 31
`
`
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
`DALLAS DIVISION
`
`3:11-CV-367-O
`
`Jury TriaT VoTume 2
`
`ApriT 2, 2013
`
`)
`)
`)
`
`) )
`
`SUMMIT 6 LLC,
`PTaintiff,
`
`v
`RESEARCH IN MOTION CORP.,
`Defendants.
`
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE REED C. O'CONNOR
`
`United States District Judge
`In Da77as, Texas
`
`jcampbeTTGmckooTsmith.com
`
`FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`
`MR. THEODORE STEVENSON, III.
`MCKOOT Smith
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-4000
`Fax: 214/978-4044 FAX
`tstevenson@mckooTsmith.com
`
`MR. PHILLIP M. AURENTZ
`McKooT Smith PC
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-4206
`Fax: 214/978-4044
`
`paurentz@mckooTsmith.com
`
`MS. ASHLEY N. MOORE
`McKooT Smith PC
`300 Crescent Court
`Suite 1500
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201
`214/978-6337
`Fax: 214/978-4044
`amoore@mckooTsmith.com
`
`JOHN B. CAMPBELL
`MR.
`MCKOOT Smith
`300 W 6th St
`Suite 1700
`
`Austin, TX 78701
`512/692-8730
`Fax: 512/692-8744
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TL' EX- 2004
`Page 1 of 31
`
`Facebook v. TLI Communications
`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
`Page 1 of 31
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
`MR. BRADLEY w CALDWELL
`
`Ca1dwe11 Cassady Curry, P.C.
`1717 McKinney
`Suite 700
`
`DaTTas, TX 75202
`214/593-7129
`Fax: 214/978-4044
`bcawaeTTGcawaeTch.com
`
`FOR THE DEFENDANT:
`
`MR.
`
`JAMES R. NELSON
`
`erik.fuehrer@d1apiper.com
`
`DLA Piper US LLP
`1717 Main St
`Suite 4600
`
`DaTTas, TX 75201-4605
`214/743-4512
`Fax: 214/743-4545
`
`jr.ne1son@d1apiper.com
`
`MR. MARK D. FOWLER
`
`DLA Piper LLP (US)
`2000 University Ave
`East PaTo A1to, CA 94303
`650/833-2048
`Fax: 650/833-2001
`
`mark.fow1er@d1apiper.com
`
`MS. CLAUDIA WILSON FROST
`
`DLA Piper LLP
`1000 Louisiana
`Suite 2800
`
`Houston, TX 77002
`713/425-8450
`Fax: 713/300-6050
`
`cTaudia.frost@d1apiper.com
`
`MR. ANDREW P. VALENTINE
`
`DLA Piper LLP (US)
`2000 University Avenue
`East PaTo ATto, CA 94303-2214
`650-833-2000
`Fax: 650-833-2001
`
`andrew.va1entine@DLAPiper.com
`
`MR. ERIK FUEHRER
`
`DLA Piper US LLP
`2000 University Avenue
`East PaTo A1to, CA 94303
`650/833-2045
`Fax: 650/833-2001
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TL' EX- 2004
`Page 2 of 31
`
`Facebook v. TLI Communications
`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
`Page 2 of 31
`
`
`
`Page 3
`
`MR. TODD S. PATTERSON
`
`DLA Piper LLP (US)
`401 Congress Ave
`Suite 2500
`
`Austin, TX 78701
`512/457-7000
`Fax: 512/457-7001
`
`COURT REPORTER:
`
`todd.pattersonediapiper.com
`
`MR. DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`1050 Lake Caroiyn Pkwy #2338
`Irving, Texas
`75039
`drodenrmr@sbcg7oba7.net
`Phone:
`(214) 753-2298
`
`computerized stenography and produced by computer.
`
`The above styied and numbered cause was reported by
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TL' EX- 2004
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
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`
`
`Wright
`
`- Cross
`Page 4
`
`(Afternoon of Apri1 2, 2013.)
`
`MR. CALDWELL: May it p1ease the Court.
`
`BY MR. CALDWELL:
`
`Q. Mr. Wright,
`
`I wou1d 1ike to foIIow up on something we
`
`ta1ked about ear1ier.
`
`We
`
`ta1ked about different ways of
`
`getting a picture to point 2. When was the option to send a
`
`CD to Point2 first avai1ab1e?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think that was made avai1ab1e before I
`
`joined the
`
`company.
`
`Q. What
`
`is your best recoIIection of when you joined the
`
`company?
`
`A.
`
`In May or June.
`
`Q.
`
`Of 97?
`
`A.
`
`Of 97, yeah.
`
`a picture to Point2 via FTP, fi1e transfer protocoI, first
`
`Q.
`
`You joined in May, June, 97,
`
`just to he1p keep your
`
`time
`
`frames straight, okay? Fair enough?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And now you think the extended CD modeI,
`
`that was
`
`avaiIabIe before you joined?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think so.
`
`Q. Did it go back into 96, or do you know?
`
`A.
`
`I'm afraid I don't know.
`
`Q. What I've added to the CD, you can mai1 a CD to Point2
`
`since before June 1997. When was the functiona1ity of sending
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 4 of 31
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`Facebook v. TLI Communications
`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
`Page 4 of 31
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`
`
`added to Point2?
`
`Wright
`
`- Cross
`Page 5
`
`A.
`
`I don't
`
`think I ever saw those capabiTities in --
`
`in --
`
`there were I
`
`think two forms of it and I
`
`think that one form
`
`was avaiTabTe before and that was something to the effect of,
`
`you know, Barry woqu give you access to a FTP server and you
`
`woqu send the fiTe that way.
`
`You can kind of
`
`think of that
`
`as being akin to sending a CD or even a scan and any of those
`
`techniques.
`
`And then Tater,
`
`sometime after the PUF was
`
`introduced,
`
`that's when we introduced the so-caTTed TriviaT
`
`fiTe upToad and that's not FTP based,
`
`that woqu be an http
`
`upToad.
`
`in
`
`Q.
`
`I'm not sure that answered my question. What
`
`I want
`
`to
`
`know is when was it first avaiTabTe that you coqu FTP a
`
`picture to Point2?
`
`It varied to give you the credentiaTs you
`
`need for a FTP site for exampTe?
`
`A. That was something that Barry did before my time but
`
`I
`
`never reaTTy saw that occur.
`
`Q.
`
`My handwritten faux pas.
`
`But FTP to Point2 is avaiTabTe
`
`before June 97,
`
`that's fair; correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`As
`
`to the so caTTed triviaT upToad,
`
`the http upToad, we
`
`saw in your deposition you ton us you beTieved that that
`
`might have been avaiTabTe before the photo upToad faciTity;
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`In my deposition I said it may be avaiTabTe but
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 5 of 31
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
`Page 5 of 31
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`
`
`beginning of the process when the server sends them to the
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 114
`
`c1ient and then you do a11 this wi11 other work, you've got
`
`to
`
`pick your picture, you've got
`
`to 1et
`
`the PUF resize it and
`
`compress it and get it a11 ready to go and on1y at that point
`
`does the PUF go back and get that fi1e name and make the --
`
`use it to send the two fi1es to the database at
`
`the Point2
`
`server.
`
`Q. And, again,
`
`for the record,
`
`this is exhibit 2076 at page
`
`to 21; correct?
`
`correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`right.
`
`And I be1ieve we've seen this testimony
`
`before?
`
`A.
`
`I fe1t it --
`
`I just wanted to tie it down again, okay?
`
`Because this is exact1y what we're ta1king about. Mr. Wright
`
`was asked what are the other two parameters that we see in
`
`here, users one and three,
`
`this appears to be the names of the
`
`fi1es,
`
`the name that we wi11 use on the server.
`
`80 it doesn't
`
`refer to the name of the fi1e on the c1ient computer but
`
`rather the names that wi11 be used when we save the photo FTP
`
`on our
`
`-- when we upioad that photo to the servers.
`
`That
`
`name,
`
`that first and third argument identifies the fi1e name
`
`and it a1so identifies the person who started the process when
`
`they said I want
`
`to make an ad for a new piece of equipment.
`
`Q.
`
`For
`
`the record,
`
`that's from the Wright deposition at page
`
`117 Iines 11
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 6 of 31
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
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`
`
`A.
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 115
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`And what
`
`is this i11ustration from?
`
`A. This is another i11ustration from the use of various types
`
`of user identification in the system. This just points out
`
`that you can enter your e-mai1 address and your Point2
`
`provided password.
`
`Q.
`
`And that's from the demo CD?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`It uses the internet as the network and nothing to do
`
`Q.
`
`So what
`
`is your conc1usion regarding c1aim 49?
`
`A. Weii, here again. It's my opinion that the Point2 photo
`
`upioad faciiity provide c1ear and convincing evidence that
`
`every 1imitation of a11 of these c1aims, no matter how
`
`dependent
`
`they may be on other c1aims, are disciosed in that
`
`system and hence those five dependent c1aims, 40, 44, 45, 46,
`
`and 49 are a1so inva1idated by anticipation by the Point2
`
`photo upioad faci1ity.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`taking a step back for a moment,
`
`is the Summit 6
`
`patent
`
`rea11y about ce11u1ar or mobi1e phones?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think it's -- it's agnostic to that
`
`in a sense.
`
`It
`
`doesn't strong1y speak one way or the other.
`
`I
`
`think that's
`
`in a way to their benefit but it -- it never says anything
`
`about phones at a11.
`
`Q.
`
`And the Point2 prior art,
`
`is there anything about that
`
`that's re1ated to the mobi1e phones?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 7 of 31
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
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`
`
`with ce11u1ar or on it type of mobi1e phones it.
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 116
`
`Q. Have you found any other prior art that
`
`is specific to
`
`mobi1e phones?
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`Q. What
`
`is that?
`
`A. That's this Mattes patent that dea1s specifica11y with a
`
`phone and photographic preprocessing on that phone.
`
`Q. What
`
`is the patent number for the Mattes patent?
`
`A. You've got me.
`
`It's beyond my age and abi1ity to read it.
`
`6 mi11ion and something.
`
`Can you read it?
`
`Q.
`
`6038295.
`
`Is that correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`For
`
`the record,
`
`this is Defendant's Exhibit 2544.
`
`Is that
`
`correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Mr. Erickson.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`right. Who invented the Mattes Patent?
`
`A.
`
`I brought up a portion of the cover page on this patent.
`
`It's a gent1eman from Munich Germany who has fi1ed an American
`
`patent named Hines Mattes.
`
`He works for Semens in Munich and
`
`he fi1ed the app1ication for his patent on June the 17th of
`
`1997 in the United States.
`
`Q.
`
`And what does that mean with respect
`
`to the '482 Patent?
`
`A.
`
`It's we11 before it. Okay?
`
`It's on the 1eft side but
`
`because it's a patent it's a 1itt1e bit different,
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
`Facebookv.TL| Communications
`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 8 of 31
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
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`
`
`Q.
`
`How is it different?
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 117
`
`A.
`
`In this case, as I understand the 1aw and, again,
`
`the
`
`judge is going to eprain the 1aw to you at
`
`the end of this
`
`process, but it's my understanding for this type of prior art
`
`you have to be one year earIier than the date of conception
`
`for the Summit 6 invention and the ear1iest date of conception
`
`that
`
`I beIieve has been asserted in this case is August of 98.
`
`Do I have that right?
`
`I
`
`think I
`
`remember that correctIy.
`
`And
`
`to be one year ahead of that you've got
`
`to be August of 97 and
`
`June comes before August,
`
`so this under this s1ight1y
`
`different theory of where the criticaI date is based on the
`
`date of conception and not
`
`the date of fi1ing the app1ication
`
`is sti11 vaIidIy prior art.
`
`Q.
`
`But
`
`in any event
`
`the fiIing date of June 17th, 1997,
`
`is
`
`we11 before the first a11eged conception date by Summit 6?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`As my son wou1d say, it's p1enty ear1y.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Now, did the United States Patent Office consider
`
`the Mattes Patent during the examination of the '482 Patent?
`
`A.
`
`I do not be1ieve it has.
`
`I've Iooked on its cover and
`
`found no reference to this patent.
`
`I've Iooked on the cover
`
`of the '482 Patent.
`
`you can Iook there or you can Iook in the fi1e history as
`
`Q.
`
`And why wou1d you Iook at
`
`the cover of the '482 Patent?
`
`A. There's a1ways a 1ist of the prior art that was considered
`
`by the examiners during the prosecution of that patent and so
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 9 of 31
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`IPR2015-00778 TLI Ex. 2004
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`
`
`weTT.
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 118
`
`And the Mattes Patent was not Tisted?
`
`I coqun't find it.
`
`a microphone, have a memory
`
`GeneraTTy speaking, what does the Mattes Patent describe?
`
`WeTI,
`
`I
`
`think I can use some of the drawings from the
`
`patent. This first drawing shows and it's very hard to see in
`
`here but this is a c1ient server arrangement.
`
`The c1ients are
`
`teTephone units on the Teft-hand side and if we c1ick I
`
`think
`
`I may have highTighted one.
`
`They caTT the T E for teTephone
`
`equipment.
`
`There's a transmission in-between which is the phone
`
`system.
`
`And then on the right-hand side is the server that's
`
`going to be used to receive and -- and do things with the
`
`pictures that are taken by the camera capabiTity on these
`
`teTephone units,
`
`so the server is over here.
`
`I
`
`think one of
`
`the key pieces of that
`
`is the controT unit which is, again,
`
`a
`
`processor,
`
`a computer,
`
`that sits in the server.
`
`80 the
`
`c1ient's on the Teft,
`
`the server is on the right, network is
`
`in the middTe.
`
`Q. What are the teTephone you've nights Tike in the Mattes
`
`Patent?
`
`A.
`
`He gave us a detaiTed drawing, okay? These have severaT
`
`capabiTities.
`
`The first thing Tet's just Took at
`
`from a
`
`teTephone point of view, okay?
`
`They have a wireTess antenna.
`
`They have an earphone,
`
`a key pad,
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 10 of 31
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`
`
`for such things as storing what's my te1ephone number, and
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 119
`
`that's -- that's the phone part. Okay?
`
`Q. Okay. What e1se is there?
`
`A.
`
`If we c1ick again,
`
`this is the camera part. There's a
`
`fiashbuib,
`
`there's a 1ens,
`
`there's a view finder, and there's
`
`this it box down in the iower right ca11ed A L which is ca11ed
`
`the trigger or a1so referred to as the shutter in the patent
`
`and it's what you push to take a picture and start the process
`
`of dea1ing with that picture that you just took by the overa11
`
`system.
`
`Q.
`
`Any other components?
`
`to the assert it
`
`A. Yes. There's some processing or computer capabiiities.
`
`You can see there's a memory, and we've heard this term RAM
`
`that's random access memory, it's the kind of memory that
`
`computers use that's rea1 fast but it has a disadvantage,
`
`I
`
`don't know if you have ever been using a computer 1ike writing
`
`a 1etter or e-mai1 and the power goes out and you 10st
`
`everything you did.
`
`That means that what you did was working
`
`on was
`
`in RAM and they ca11 that voiatiie, it just went away.
`
`If it's on a hard disc drive,
`
`that's non-voiatiie,
`
`it wi11
`
`stay during take power outage but this phone had a RAM memory
`
`and something that's going to prove to be pretty important
`
`which is ca11ed a c1assification information aiiocator and it
`
`has a processor as we11.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`Did you compare the Mattes Patent
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 11 of 31
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`
`
`c1aims of Summit 6 patent?
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 120
`
`A. Yes,
`
`I did.
`
`Q. What concIusion did you reach?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`fund the Mattes Patent,
`
`Iike the Point2 PUF teaches aII
`
`the Iimitations of c1aim 38.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`right. WeII, Iet's take it in parts again.
`
`For c1aim
`
`38 does Mattes disc10se the first part of c1aim 38?
`
`A.
`
`It does.
`
`It has a computer
`
`impIemented method with the
`
`processor in the phone tore preprocessing digitaI content.
`
`The picture you take with the camera part of the phone with a
`
`c1ient device,
`
`the phone,
`
`for subsequent eIectronic
`
`distribution. We wiII
`
`take a Iook at how they do that.
`
`They
`
`send the pictures back to the server and the system where they
`
`can be processed, stored, archived,
`
`there are a11 kinds of
`
`things the server can do incIuding making them puincIy
`
`avaiIabIe.
`
`So, yes,
`
`I
`
`think you'II can purity a check there
`
`for Mattes phone system.
`
`Q. Let's move to step A.
`
`Does Mattes disc10se step A of
`
`c1aim 38?
`
`In a patent you Iook at
`
`A. Again,
`
`Iadies and gentIemen,
`
`this was the initiating the
`
`whoIe process.
`
`I've got
`
`to do something to initiate it and
`
`yes it does.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`right.
`
`And what did you rer on for your opinion?
`
`A.
`
`Now instead -- up to now we've been Iooking at pictures of
`
`web pages from the internet archive.
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
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`either the figures or the written specification,
`
`the
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`Rhyne - Direct
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`description of what
`
`the patent has.
`
`You can aiso 100k at
`
`the
`
`c1aims, but
`
`I
`
`think I've got
`
`some portions of the
`
`specification that
`
`I
`
`think are particu1ar1y reievant.
`
`Q. Okay. What portions of the specification are you citing
`
`to on this s1ide?
`
`as we11 as ciassified information wire carry the digita1
`
`A.
`
`A11
`
`right. Here is --
`
`this is the 295 or Mattes Patent at
`
`coiumns 12 1ines 11
`
`to 14 and 1ines 35 to 41.
`
`I've
`
`high1ighted it up at
`
`the top, but me just sort of read it aii
`
`in.
`
`The te1ephone unit may associate -- we don't need that
`
`yet.
`
`A transmission system is coup1ed to the te1ephone unit
`
`and to a server for transmitting wi11 of the data which
`
`inciudes the digita1 images and potentia11y the ciassification
`
`information. We'11 come back to that,
`
`from the te1ephone unit
`
`to the server.
`
`Now,
`
`this c1aim 1imitation is about initiation.
`
`It
`
`says as the method of the present
`
`invention,
`
`the digita1
`
`images are recorded and administered by first recording the
`
`image by digitai
`
`image pick up unit. That's a digita1 camera
`
`which is inc1uded and the te1ephone unit. First they record.
`
`Once you push the button to take a picture,
`
`then the second
`
`thing it says is converting the images to digita1 form as
`
`digitai
`
`images and possibiy stored -- by that they mean stored
`
`in the camera transmitting data by contains the digitai
`
`images
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`images to a server.
`
`80, you push on the shutter, you'TT take
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`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 122
`
`a picture, you may store it in the phone and then you transmit
`
`it over to the server where something e1se can happen to it.
`
`Q. Okay.
`
`So what
`
`in your concTusion does this mean with
`
`respect
`
`to step A of
`
`--
`
`A.
`
`I beTieve step A is discTosed.
`
`Q. Here we are again at step B. What
`
`is your concTusion
`
`regarding step B?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think Mattes discToses aTT of the parts of step B.
`
`--
`
`And what supports your opinion?
`
`I'm sorry?
`
`What evidence supports your opinion?
`
`If you go to the next part. Let's start with the --
`
`just
`
`to get oriented again, here's the picture with the device and
`
`we're going to be in the teTephone units and we're going to
`
`Took at what
`
`the teTephone you've nights do to preprocess the
`
`pictures that you take and uTtimateTy they're going to be
`
`shipped over to be stored, distributed, archived, whatever
`
`they need at
`
`the server.
`
`80, Tet's keep going.
`
`Q.
`
`And what are you i11ustrating with this s1ide?
`
`A. This is from coTumn 5 Tines 20 to 29 of the patent and it
`
`says in addition a controT unit ST is provided by the server
`
`8.
`
`If we coqu move back just a coupTe of c1icks.
`
`Can you
`
`highTight that TittTe S that's sticking out by itseTf up at
`
`the top? This is an identifier for the server.
`
`They just
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`if they want
`
`to taTk about
`
`in it the patent
`
`they say 8.
`
`They
`
`Rhyne - Direct
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`
`a1so TabeT it as the server but
`
`the S is the part.
`
`80,
`
`now
`
`Tet's go forward.
`
`It says a controT unit ST is provided in
`
`the server 8.
`
`The controT unit controTs the image resoTution
`
`of the digitaT images using the image compression in the
`
`teTephone unit. That's preprocessing. Okay? We compress the
`
`images in the teTephone.
`
`In particuTar image compression
`
`methods utiTize a controT parameter to set
`
`the image
`
`compression TeveT for the digitaT image such as the quantizing
`
`factor in jpeg --
`
`they show you it's the Joint Photographer
`
`Expert Group --
`
`image --
`
`that shoqu say -- data compression.
`
`The controT unit ST determines this quantizing factor to be
`
`used to obtain the desired image quaTity.
`
`Q. What
`
`is this quantizing factor referred to here in the
`
`Mattes Patent at coTumn 5 Tines 20 to 29?
`
`referred to?
`
`A.
`
`It's kind of Tike that 75% whatever number you want
`
`that
`
`Mr. Wright
`
`taTked about that he was doing when he compressed.
`
`But
`
`the key here is you remember
`
`these preprocessing
`
`parameters have to be downToaded from some other pTace than
`
`the c1ient and this says that exactTy.
`
`It says I'm going to
`
`do image compression in the phone and the controT unit
`
`determines,
`
`that's the server over here,
`
`this quantizing
`
`factor to be used to obtain the desired image quaTity.
`
`Q.
`
`How woqu this i11ustrate the downToading that you
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`
`
`A. This just shows here senior the controI unit
`
`in the S and
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 124
`
`it's going to te11 the te1ephone units what's 1eve1 of
`
`quantization they shou1d be doing. The specification says if
`
`I've got more data than I want
`
`I can squeeze it down,
`
`if it's
`
`not enough data,
`
`I can move it up.
`
`But
`
`the key here there is
`
`a parameter to do it,
`
`the quantizing factor and it comes from
`
`a unit other than the phone,
`
`it comes from the server.
`
`Q. Are there any other passages in the Mattes Patent that are
`
`re1evant
`
`to this?
`
`voice information, you can dictate a 1itt1e voice, kind of
`
`A.
`
`I be1ieve so. Okay.
`
`I
`
`thought you might have backed up.
`
`You threw me out.
`
`A11
`
`right. Here is cqumn 4, 18 to 34.
`
`It
`
`says the present communications system may inc1ude a controI
`
`unit
`
`in the server for controIIing the resqution of the
`
`digita1 images in the te1ephone unit. Okay? That's the key.
`
`The server can controI
`
`the resqution of the digita1 images in
`
`the phone, okay? And/or for controIIing the transmission rate
`
`of the data. That's rea11y germane to the Iimitation.
`
`Q. What are you i11ustrating on this s1ide?
`
`A.
`
`I put a word up there to he1p me
`
`remember.
`
`It's for
`
`pub1ication.
`
`If you remember you have to do whatever you do
`
`to the picture to prepare it in a form for pub1ication or
`
`I
`
`may be paraphrasing the precise words.
`
`It here it says the
`
`te1ephone is a mobi1e te1ephone unit which makes it possib1e
`
`to immediate1y register the image and they a1so have some
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
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`Page 16 of 31
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`
`
`1ike, hi,
`
`this is Tom, and to have this information avai1ab1e
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 125
`
`at any arbitrary iocation.
`
`It
`
`is thus possibie to distribute
`
`image and voice information over the mobi1e te1ephone quick1y
`
`and possib1y to attribute it to mu1tip1ied iocations. That,
`
`to me,
`
`is pub1ication.
`
`But there's something even more
`
`specific here, particu1ar1y with regard to the Court's or the
`
`Judge's construction of pubiication.
`
`It says the images may
`
`be automatica11y stored or archived on the basis of
`
`c1assification information, OM.
`
`Now,
`
`that's going to be over
`
`at
`
`the server, not at
`
`the phone.
`
`It's going to being archived
`
`on the basis of the c1assification information OM, and either
`
`a pub1ic or a private mai1box on the internet.
`
`It te11s you
`
`that you're making it avai1ab1e to the pub1ic in a mai1box on
`
`the internet.
`
`The recorded images may be forwarded to a
`
`server via the internet or may be direct 1ed disp1ayed on a
`
`page of the Wor1dwide Web which is sort of 1ike what we 1ooked
`
`at with the Point2 system. When you put
`
`them on a page on the
`
`word wide web peopie can see it.
`
`Q.
`
`For
`
`the record, you're referencing the Mattes Patent at
`
`coiumns -- Let's see -- 3,
`
`7 to 15; 8, 14 to 23; and 29 to 35;
`
`is your opinion regarding step
`
`correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`80 what does this mean for step B of c1aim 38?
`
`It's met by the Mattes Patent.
`
`Moving on to step C. What
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 17 of 31
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`
`
`C in 1ight of the Mattes Patent?
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 126
`
`A. Weii, again,
`
`this just says you're going to transmit it
`
`from the c1ient
`
`though the server for subsequent distribution
`
`and it's got
`
`to inciude the preprocessed digitai content which
`
`wi11 be the compressed digita1 images.
`
`80 I
`
`think I've got
`
`some cites for that as we11.
`
`We're iooked at this eariier.
`
`It says the te1ephone
`
`is a mobi1e te1ephone unit which makes it possibie to
`
`immediateiy register the image and voice information and to
`
`have the information avaiiabie at any arbitrary iocation.
`
`It
`
`is thus possibie to distribute image and voice information
`
`over the mobi1e te1ephone quickiy and possibiy to distribute
`
`it to mu1tip1ied iocations. That's the distribution that this
`
`1ast e1ement
`
`ta1ks --
`
`this gives you both the transmission,
`
`if
`
`you iook at
`
`the first part,
`
`the te1ephone unit
`
`is a wire1ess
`
`te1ephone which wire1ess1y transmits the data over the
`
`transmission system.
`
`Q. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`And then what wou1d be the remote devices?
`
`If you go back
`
`to step C. What
`
`is the server and what are the remote
`
`devices?
`
`A. Okay.
`
`The server wou1d be the server.
`
`The remote
`
`devises,
`
`remember
`
`--
`
`I don't know if I've copied it here,
`
`if
`
`not we ought
`
`to back up to it, but we had pub1ic and private
`
`maiiboxes.
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`
`
`A.
`
`And we had pages avai1ab1e on the Wor1dwide Web so this
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 127
`
`wou1d be any kind of c1ient computer that went
`
`to the pub1ic
`
`mai1box using a ma1e reader or anybody who went
`
`though those
`
`pages on the Wor1dwide Web wou1d be the other -- you know, one
`
`or more other devices.
`
`Q. That's what you're referring to at Mattes Patent, coiumn
`
`1ines 29 to 35?
`
`A. Yes. Dea1ing with a pub1ic mai1box on the internet or a
`
`page on the Wor1dwide Web, any type of c1ient computer can
`
`access that.
`
`Q. What
`
`is your conciusion regarding step C of c1aim 38?
`
`A.
`
`It,
`
`too,
`
`is disciosed by the Mattes Patent.
`
`Q. Dr. Rhyne,
`
`in your opinion -- what
`
`is your opinion
`
`regarding the va1idity or
`
`inva1idity of c1aim 38 of
`
`the '482
`
`Patent?
`
`A.
`
`I be1ieve that the Mattes Patent, based on the disciosures
`
`these five c1aims, dea1 with one way or another with
`
`that I've shown the jury provides c1ear and convincing
`
`evidence that every 1imitation of c1aim 38 is met by that
`
`patent and as a resu1t
`
`that c1aim 38 is inva1id by
`
`anticipation by the Mattes Patent.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`right. A1most there.
`
`On to the five dependent
`
`c1aims.
`
`Do you have any observations in generai before we
`
`step through them about Mattes and these dependent c1aims?
`
`A. We11,
`
`if you remember
`
`I pointed out a11 of these c1aims,
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`
`
`identifying information and the patent,
`
`I've touched on it a
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 128
`
`coupIe of times,
`
`now we're going to rea11y ta1k about it, has
`
`this c1assification information.
`
`It's kind of you can think
`
`of it 1ike if they had a picture of an eIephant you couId say
`
`in some way you couId put this picture into a directory
`
`somewhere that's for anima1s of Africa, something 1ike that.
`
`That's not
`
`the onIy thing, but it says here Iook what
`
`the
`
`c1assification information can be,
`
`it can be audio data,
`
`I can
`
`record a IittIe snippet of voice, hey,
`
`this is an e1ephant.
`
`I
`
`can put
`
`the time and date.
`
`I won't focus on that much.
`
`I can
`
`put a teIephone number.
`
`And Mr. Lewis, when he was taIking
`
`about
`
`identifying information, he severaI
`
`times mentioned the
`
`teIephone number as being --
`
`identifying a person and being
`
`identifying information and you can put a memory Iocation and
`
`that's going to be kind of
`
`important because it says I want
`
`to
`
`get an absqute memory Iocation to where I'm going to store
`
`this thing over to the server and a directory, and the 1ast
`
`thing you can do is key pad enter data.
`
`You can type a
`
`message 1ike this is the picture,
`
`this is the view I see out
`
`of my apartment window or something 1ike that if you wanted to
`
`have that kind of
`
`information.
`
`back up just a moment, okay? CIaim 38 -- c1aim 40 says --
`
`Q. Let's step to the c1aims.
`
`Do you have an opinion
`
`regarding c1aim 40?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`It's based on my opinion about c1aim 38 but if you
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
`
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
`Page 20 of 31
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`
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`you've got
`
`to have ciaim 38 p1us identification of the digita1
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 129
`
`content
`
`in some way identified.
`
`80, 1et's go to the next.
`
`It
`
`says as a method of the present
`
`invention the digita1 images
`
`are recorded.
`
`The recorded images are converted to digita1
`
`form and transmitting data which contains the digita1 images
`
`as we11 as ciassification information which characterize the
`
`digitai
`
`images to a server.
`
`And we saw what that
`
`c1assification information can be.
`
`It can be a teiephone
`
`number,
`
`it can be a keyed in message,
`
`it cou1d even be a
`
`snippet of voice.
`
`Q. This passage you read is it 2544 coiumn 2 at 1ines 35 to
`
`It's inva1idated by the Mattes Patent.
`
`correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`Q.
`
`So what does that mean for c1aim 40?
`
`A.
`
`It means that when you say that
`
`I'm going to have this
`
`digita1 --
`
`this c1assification information that's associated
`
`with c1assifying the picture,
`
`that that meets the requirement
`
`for receiving an identification of the digita1 content for
`
`transformation prior to preprocessing.
`
`It can be received by
`
`keying it in.
`
`It can be received by speaking it in.
`
`It can
`
`be received by extracting the te1ephone number out of the
`
`phone's stored memory iocation so it knows its own number.
`
`Q. What
`
`is your opinion regarding c1aim 40 of the '482
`
`Patent?
`
`A.
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`
`
`Q. CIaim 44.
`
`Do you have an opinion regarding c1aim 44?
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 130
`
`A.
`
`Sure,
`
`I do.
`
`I've found after studying the Mattes Patent
`
`in great detaiT that it a1so invaIidates both c1aims 38 and
`
`44.
`
`Q. What are you reTying on for this?
`
`A. Here it says -- back up one,
`
`if you woqun't mind.
`
`The
`
`transmitted message has to incTude the identifying
`
`information,
`
`so it kind of
`
`-- we taTked about
`
`the -- I've got
`
`to have the picture but I've a1so got
`
`to have my identifying
`
`information.
`
`If you go to the next c1ick.
`
`The perfect
`
`exampTe here is the teTephone number.
`
`It's one of the
`
`exampIes of c1assifying information. That's identifying
`
`right. What are you reTying on in this?
`
`information. Okay? And if you go --
`
`I
`
`think I actuaTTy had a
`
`quote.
`
`The teTephone number may associate c1assification
`
`information with the digitaT images.
`
`A transmission system is
`
`coupIed to the teTephone unit and to a server for transmitting
`
`the data which incTudes the digitaT images and potentiaTTy the
`
`c1assification information from the teTephone unit
`
`to the
`
`server.
`
`80 there's a combined transmission of
`
`the picture and
`
`that c1assification information such as a keyboard message or
`
`a teTephone number.
`
`Q.
`
`And for the record, again,
`
`that's Mattes Patent at coTumn
`
`Tines 11
`
`to 14; correct?
`
`A. Yes, sir.
`
`Q.
`
`A11
`
`DENVER B. RODEN, RMR
`United States Court Reporter
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`IPR2015'00778 TH E)" 2004
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`
`
`A. This gives a specific cite in the patent specification
`
`Rhyne - Direct
`Page 131
`
`about
`
`the te1ephone number.
`
`It says the c1assification
`
`information may contain at 1east
`
`the te1ephone number of the
`
`te1ephone unit accompanying the digita1 image.
`
`I skipped over
`
`the te1ephone number,
`
`the server. We don't need to re1y on
`
`it.
`
`But it says you're going to have the c1assification
`
`information such as the te1ephone number accompany the digita1
`
`image.
`
`They go together.
`
`Q.
`
`For
`
`the record, again,
`
`that's an excerpt
`
`from Exhibit 2544
`
`at coiumns 3, 1ines 51
`
`to Coiumn 4, 1ine 2.
`
`Is that correct?
`
`A. Yes.
`
`c1assification information with the digita1 images, okay?
`
`Q.
`
`And what are you re1ying on in this s1ide?
`
`A. This, again,
`
`is ta1king about what you do with the
`
`c1assification information.
`
`It says the c1ass
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