CROSSROADS EXHIBIT 2302
`Oracle Corp., et al v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` IPR2014-01207 and IPR2014-1209
`
`
`1 of 30
`
`CROSSROADS EXHIBIT 2302
`NetApp Inc. v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
`IPR2015-00773
`
`

`

`taken M91392: 6. 2001
`
`INDEX
`
`Appearances _____________________ 2
`exhibits ------ -
`-. ............ . .
`3
`GEOFF IQESE
`Examinatiun by Mr. gamer ............ .
`changes and Signature .............. .
`ea
`Reporter's Certification ___________ . .
`. 2'0
`
`EXHIBITS
`
`UESCRIFTEON
`Notice of Deposition
`u.s. Patent No. 5,941,972
`Abstract of Provisional Router
`
`Dérn‘ "
`
`GEDFF HDESE.
`having been first duiy 5mm, testified as Whom:
`swmumn
`(Exhibit Nos. 22. 23, and 24 marked.)
`
`av nu. amt“:
`
`600d morning. Hr. Huesu.
`Q
`Good morning.
`A
`Let me hand you what's been marked as Hoese
`(1
`Exhibit 22. Before I do that 1et me just ask you. are
`you the Geoffrey noun that's named as. an inventor an
`the patent
`in this case?
`A
`Yes.
`
`And you're the same Geoffrey Hoese that's been
`Q
`deposed before?
`A
`was.
`I;
`no you sti'll 'I'I‘ve in the sale p'lace?
`A
`V25,
`I do.
`Q
`A" right.
`A
`Na.
`
`the same age?
`
`5111]
`
`IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICI' COURT
`to“ THE WESIERH DISTRICI’ OF TEXAS
`AUSTIN DIVISION
`
`(61055319405 SYSTEMS
`[TEX-HS).
`INCV
`it.
`
`CHAFARML REM“ STORAGE,
`Inc... A nilnwme conpauuou
`
`Civil Action no.
`
`AiflwrZIF-SS
`
`3003(6) ORAL Demsruon or
`GEOFF «out
`
`August 6 . 2001
`
`am DEPOSITION DF GEOFF HOESE. produced
`as a witness at the instance uf the Defendant and du'ly
`sworn, was taken in the above ny‘lefl and numbered cause
`an the am day of August. 2001,
`from 1:13 pm.
`to 4:15
`p.m., before Sandra 5. Givens, 1:51.
`in and for the
`sute of Texas. reported by machine shorthand method,
`M the offices. of “Wright 5 Jawrsii, 600 Congress
`avenue. 1900 one American center. nvuin. has 78101.
`pursuant to the FedErn1 units of civil Procedure.
`
`APPEARANCES
`
`FOR THE PLAI NT] FF:
`
`A1an D Aibright
`Gray. Cary. Ware 5. Freidenrich. LLP
`1221 5. MP3: Expressway
`Suite 600
`Aust'i n. Texas
`
`782'46
`
`FOR THE DEFENDANT:
`
`'
`David D. Bahlcr
`Futhright & Jaworski, LLP
`1900 One American center
`E500 Congress Avenue
`Austin. Texas
`78701
`
`Iain-seclulbwwhi
`
`PMno
`
`WFNOMLUNH
`“MMMNNHp-lb—I-lrll-‘HHHHmthPOOUNmI-AAHMMD
`
`the p'IaI'ntiff in this use, .nd
`
`Prnhabw older. Vuu're over )5. you're
`
`0h!-
`0
`inH over 18?
`A
`sti'n over 18.
`0
`Take a lnnh a: Exhibit 22. That is a (any of
`[haparra'l's Third notice of Deposition under aule
`30(9)“) to crossroads.
`
`M.a=,wuma.¢a..mu-
`
`.. _,
`
`chns COURC chamng
`
`512) 301-7088
`
`I {pages I to *4)
`
`CONFIDENTIAL
`
`ATTORNEY'S EYES ONLY
`
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`CRDS 66684
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`

`GEOFF hoes:
`
`Calicn Must 6. 200]
`
`ly-‘¢mvlhw~rl
`
`H#Ha
`12
`
`OUGHmuAuNb-l
`
`Dan'- 1
`I have no: billed Crossroads for my time as of
`
`A
`this day.
`Do you have an agreement that you're going to
`Q
`till then?
`no,
`A
`Not specifically.
`Q
`Do you have .1 personal understanding that
`you're going to he paid?
`A
`I've considered it and may we‘l'l do so.
`.3
`Have ynu 1:: then know that?
`A
`I've mentioned the possibility.
`Q
`And uhat was their response?
`A
`Her response?
`G
`we”. her or their. Hint was its response?
`lion about that.
`A
`They seemd open to the possibility. and i:
`was just not a topic for further discussion.
`:1
`okay.
`no you have any sort of financial
`arrangement between Crossroads and yourself regarding
`your testimony here today?
`A
`Not specifically. Ma.
`Q
`Generally?
`A
`Recording ny testimony here. M.
`q
`ut'n tale 1 Incl: u: Exhibit 24.
`me what that is?
`A
`“‘5 a documenL I wrote describing the
`
`can you tell
`
`DH? Ii
`
`characteristics of the 972 patent at the initial
`conception.
`a
`I: that your handwriting on the front?
`A
`on the fax cover page?
`a
`Yes. sir.
`A
`Yes, it is.
`Mn. ALBIIGHT: And let me just put. down
`on the record it's my handwriting on the three pages
`where it says "lttornlys’ eyes only.“ since we produced
`it.
`I mean, 1 just —-
`that’s fine.
`an. mun;
`\siiy did you prepare
`{by ur. named okay.
`a
`this document?
`A
`I prepared this document because 1 had a
`concept and an invention that I felt was worth
`pursuing. and so I prepared this document to initiate
`the patent filing.
`q
`okay. And this document was prepared when?
`can you 1211 from looking at it?
`A
`saucers March 22nd and my 15th. prior to my
`15th. 199?.
`And then this was sent to
`q
`all right.
`Mr. anthem: reteman on May ZBth, 199}?
`A
`I believe so.
`res.
`That's what's indicated
`by the cover Sheet. and that makes sense.
`
`it's our understanding you have been designated to
`speak on behalf of Crossroads about topics 5 and 5-
`that your understanding?
`A
`Yeah.
`
`MR. ALBRICHT: These two .
`Yeah.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`Thai: is my
`
`Dam?)
`
`Is
`
`understanding.
`a
`(By Mr. Bah'ler) Are you prepared to do so
`today?
`Yes.
`I ill-
`A
`what did you do to prepare for your
`Q
`deposition?
`a.
`Briefly “1-. with my «name! before [his
`
`YES .
`
`Dan" 5
`
`I know.
`(By Hr. Baffler) All right.
`a
`Hr. Huese, that when Ire last 5901! you were Wlflnfl by
`Crossroads .
`I: that sti‘ll the use?
`I don‘t believe that In current Mien we hat.
`A
`spoke.
`I:
`
`Are you employed by Crossroads today?
`No. I'm not.
`when did you leave Crossroads?
`In October of 2000.
`okay.
`on you have a job right now?
`lie.
`3 do not.
`who; do you do for A living?
`I do some different consulting kind of
`A
`arrangements with different fims where I have an
`advisory role in a couple different Companies of a very
`loose nature.
`a
`Do you perform any consulting or advising for
`Crossroads?
`A
`I've been involved with things relating to
`[MS trial.
`q
`no you have a consultancy arrange-sent with
`crossroads for this trial?
`A
`No. Not specifically. No.
`Q
`Are you being compensated for your time here
`
`wmumwbwvui-n
`MNNNMNHHHHHHI‘HHHmawrui—owcnvmmnHNi-no
`wooflmuawu...
`uuuuumuwHHHI—Hunvwavhnowmflomnwwr—o
`
`today?
`
`deposition. That's about it.
`q
`Did you look at any documents?
`A
`I believe I looked at this one document.
`a
`which has been previously marked as
`Exhibit 24?
`A
`no. Exhibit 22. paragraph 5.
`oh.
`that notice. Dkay. Exhibit 22.
`I looked at Section 5 of 22.
`And a?
`I didn‘t look at 6 until now.
`Actually. no.
`But you‘re the 6 guy?
`HR. ALBRIGHT: Yeah. He's the 6 guy.
`
`Q A
`
`q
`
`A Q
`
`Givens Count." Relocating
`
`{SIZI 301-7088
`
`2 {Degas 5 to
`
`B)
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`Coon: hococ
`
`'Cahcn August: 6, 2001
`
`correct?
`
`Ilagc H
`That was the date that I documented that I had
`A
`the ideas that assembled to cover the material
`presented here.
`Q
`okay, You dncu-entefl something on lech 22nd.
`1997?
`I‘m not sure what documented -- what do you
`A
`Int-an by "documented"?
`Q
`Hell.
`in that answer you said "that's the date
`that I documented." and than you mentioned something
`that you documented.
`A
`I documented that date as the date that I had
`the concept.
`0
`How did you arrive at that date?
`A
`That was the day that the idea in whole as
`presented occurred to me.
`a
`okay-
`How is it that you picked v7 how is it
`that on May 15th or perhaps as late as Hay 28th you
`remembered specifically that flay 22nd. 1997 was the
`date of conception?
`A
`The date wasn't May 22nd as you just stated.
`It was March 22nd.
`Q
`Hell. May 15th -- well. you did the first
`draft flay 15th, and then I don't know when this May or
`March 22nd of 1997 date was added. but it was added
`certainly no later than May 23th, 1997.
`so the
`
`Day 12
`question is. what made you decide or hhat made you
`recall either on May lsth,
`'97 or on May lath,
`'97 that
`Narch 22nd,
`’9? was ths date of conception?
`(At this time the proceedings were
`interrupted by a telephone call.)
`Mk. ALBRIGHT:
`can I take this real
`
`quick?
`
`sure.
`MR. BAHLER.‘
`(At this time the Proceedings went
`momentarily off the record.)
`HR. BAHLER: Last ouestion. please.
`(The referenced portion was read back by
`the court reporter.)
`the time the material
`ins wtiutss: At
`was very fresh in my mind.
`It was actively the
`material I was working on.
`I suspect. although I don't
`specifically recall.
`that I had documented it in notes
`and draft drawings and documents that I had used. but I
`don't specifically recall.
`okay.
`Q
`(By Mr. Bahler)
`notes and drawings did you make?
`A
`I don‘t specifically recall.
`o
`okay.
`If those notes and drawings were not
`produced to us in this CISI.
`then they no longer exist.
`
`Do you —- what sort of
`
`omucamhwuH
`
`
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`law-qmmduHNl-I
`Nuup~mwHHHHHHHHHHmaMr~Hamuumu!aonanHa
`
`Defic‘)
`
`Has this document communicated to anybody
`o
`prior to that date?
`A
`I don't specifically recall.
`q
`All right.
`So as far as you recall. the first
`time that this information inciuded in Exhibit 24 was
`communicated to anybody was May 23.
`IEBF7
`A
`I believe it would be prior to that.
`Q
`Okay.
`A
`I would expect that I reviewed it with my
`co-inventor on the patent,
`things of that sort.
`Q
`other than Mr. Russell. anybody else?
`A
`I don't specifically recall.
`It's possible.
`1 may very possibly have shown it to Brian Smith.
`a
`Okay.
`A
`I'm certain I did at some point prior to
`actually faxing it.
`a
`what I'm asking for is specific recollection
`of any communication to anybody other than Mr. Peternan
`hufore May 25th, 1997.
`NO.
`A
`I don't specifically recall that.
`the very
`Q
`Now. on the last page at
`the bottom,
`bottom line. it says "Concept by Geoff Hoese, ”arch 22.
`1997." and it continues "First draft. May 15th, 1997.”
`And then as we've already discussed, you faxed this to
`Mr. Peternan on way 23th, 1997. right?
`
`A q
`
`A
`
`That appears to be correct.
`Pardon me?
`That appears to be correct.
`Dkay.
`Now, I'd like to ask you some questions
`a
`about that. This says “First draft. Hay lSth| 1997."
`Hhat does that mean?
`a
`I would believe that's when I took my notes
`and created this particular word document that this was
`generated from.
`so this would be when I first started
`putting this into word to create this specific
`document.
`Do you have those notes?
`okay.
`q
`I don't recall if I have then or not.
`A
`If you had them.
`they would have been product“
`Q
`in this case. correct?
`A
`Actually.
`that would clarify my answer of. I
`most certainly don't have then.
`The attorneys may have
`them in the files they might have collected.
`I don't
`know if they were there or not.
`Q
`Okay.
`And if they weren't produced.
`don‘t any longer exist?
`A
`That would be my belief. Yeah.
`Q
`And then in that line also. as we've just
`discussed, it talks about "Concept by Geoffrey “025:.
`March 22nd, 1997." Hhat does that mean?
`
`they
`
`QHHMV‘J-INNH
`uHHuumHHHHHHHHH7HuawuHommua»uawmHo
`UGHmmeNp
`NNMNNNHHHHHHHHHHmnwuwauwuc‘wJ-wa-IG
`
`chns Count chonrmg
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`{512) EDI—7083
`
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`Coop}: bocac
`
`’Calten August: 6. 2001
`
`Sometime before the thing was filed December
`
`page 15
`conception of your invention that you discussed with
`Mr. Hulsey.
`then why did you create the document that
`has been marked as Exhibit 24?
`I probably
`A
`If I had existing documents.
`desired to increase the clarity and the focus.
`Q
`okay.
`Do you specifically recall having such
`documents?
`A
`I recall having some drawings that I'd done,
`and sketches.
`I don't know if that fits what you’re
`calling documents or whatnot. hut ——
`q Well, I'm just trying to figure out what
`existed prior to this Exhibit 24. and specifically what
`documents existed prior to the existence of Exhibit 24.
`a
`Relating. I presume. to the conception .-
`ll
`Yes.
`A
`—- of 1M document?
`1:
`Exactly.
`A
`so, I'm sorry,
`document?
`Yes.
`Q
`There were a body of documents relating to the
`A
`Verraaano orojecc describing characteristics of storage
`routers. et caters. There almost certainly were
`sketches on white board and things of that sort. That
`was com-an practice.
`specifically relating to the
`
`is that a question as to what
`
`[Jag I6
`conception. I don't recall what documents there might
`have been other than that.
`Cl
`okay.
`After you sent this far to
`Anthony Peterman on lay 23th. 1557' what else did you do
`with respect to the preparation of the patent
`iwlication for the 912 patent? what did you do mutt?
`Put it that way.
`A
`In general. I worked with N. Peter-nan to
`further describe the characteristics to him so that he
`could prepare the patent.
`I don't really specifically
`recall those events.
`Q
`Did you provide him additional documents?
`A
`Very likely.
`l1
`which ones? what documents?
`A
`I don't recall.
`(1
`Okay. Did Mr. Peterman provide you with a
`draft patent application?
`A
`Eventually. yes. he did.
`(1
`Do you know hoe:
`long that look?
`a
`Hot specifically.
`(1
`After you out the -- whenever it was when you
`got it -- well. strike that.
`You do recall getting a
`draft patent application, correct?
`A
`I believe so. Vts.
`Q
`
`mnumm-www
`MHMNMNI—IHHHHHHHHmwaHomHHmwa-HEHG
`QENGHOMNH
`NNNNNNHHHHHHHHHHmnwuuamuummnwruuc
`
`1MB
`
`I would assume so. Yes.
`A
`okay. Did you communicate to anybody this
`Q
`conclption that you had of the invention on March
`22nd.
`'97?
`a
`I don't recall.
`{1
`okay. Between March Rod '97 and May
`28th,
`'9? did you communicate with anybody your ideas
`other than Mr. Russell?
`a
`I most certainly -- I don't specifically
`recall a conversation as such. but I most certainly
`would have discussed it with Mr. Smith.
`Q
`Do you have any documentation of that
`disclosure?
`a
`Not to my knowledge.
`Q
`okay.
`a
`There may be document —- to further answer
`that.
`the attorney.
`the approval to use the attorney
`and spend the money associated with that was connected
`to that.
`so there may be documentation.
`I don't know
`that's -- but I don’t specifically have knowledge
`of it.
`other than Hr. Peterraan did you Show
`Okay.
`Q
`this document or this concept to anybody outside of
`Crossroads?
`a
`I would believe Bill Hulsey.
`
`Do you have a specific recollection of
`
`nary-l4
`lawyers?
`okay. He's also one of crossroads'
`u
`He was at
`the time an outside attorney for
`A
`patent. work.
`the concept to Mr. Hulsey?
`q
`when did you reveal
`A
`Sometime prior to the -- probably prior to May
`15th.
`Okay.
`Q
`that fact?
`A
`I recall discussing the material of the
`disclosure with him prior -- and the process of
`determining what it is that I should create in terms of
`there being a document of this sort and what material
`I should incorporate.
`So I don't specifically recall.
`you know. when that was.
`(1
`Okay. Did you have documents with you during
`your discussions with Mr. uulsey?
`possibly.
`A
`Don't specifically recall.
`If you had such
`0
`Okay. Let me asl: you this.
`documents. why did you create a new document. which is
`Exhi bi t 14?
`
`not
`
`MR. aLentcHT: Objection. Assumes facts
`in evidence. You can answer.
`THE WITNESS: Can you repeat the
`
`question or —-
`Q
`(By air. Bahler)
`
`If you had documents showing
`
`som-umw-h-uul—l
`
`HRHNHO
`HFhw
`
`NNMMNNi-IHH—IH
`
`uhmuHoum-umm
`
`wan-umuua-uump
`
`
`NMMNNHHHHHI-IHBHHHuoqu-nmoaumma-yup-no
`
`Givens Count Repeat-mg
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`Coot; boom:
`
`Cohen August 6. 2001
`
`page I?
`
`'91. right?
`1 assume that was the date. but I did get a
`
`Slst
`
`A
`draft.
`
`Did you get one draft or many drafts or what.
`Q
`do you recall?
`A
`I don't specifically recall.
`Q
`okay.
`lue'l'l. you got at least one, right?
`A
`Yes.
`a
`Okay. what did you do with that draft?
`A
`I reviewed it as we'll as providing it to
`. Russell for review.
`a
`okay. Did anybody else within crossroads
`review it?
`A
`I don't reclH.
`Q
`okay. And after you reviewed it what did you
`
`do?
`
`A Q
`
`meantime-www-
`NMNNNNHHHHHHHHHI—lmamNHOou-dmutnuuna
`consummate-«NH
`NNNNNNHHHHHHHHPHmauupcwuummowwu—nc
`
`workstation 3, workstation I: and then you‘ve got the
`
`See that?
`storage."
`A
`ves.
`Q
`ultey. Did you and Mr. Peterman discuss what
`"access controls“ meant?
`A
`I don‘t specifically recall that discussion.
`It's probably reasonable to assume at some um‘nt we
`did.
`
`okay. Do you know when those discussions
`u
`occurred?
`A
`Not specifically. No.
`I:
`were they documented?
`A
`I don't recall that they were or nut.
`12
`Then the next sentence says. "Methods are
`provided that allow for configuration and modification
`of the storage allocated to each workstation attached.“
`see that?
`A
`Uhihuh.
`Q
`Are those methods disclosed in this document.
`Exhibit 24?
`A
`I’m not sure.
`can
`a
`okay. We", it‘s only two pages. right?
`you find for lie within this document any methods or any
`disclosure of any methods that allow for configuration
`and modification of the storage allotted to each
`workstation attached?
`
`page 20
`I would say that there are implicit methods in
`A
`that the storage is described as being segmented and
`configured. The impiementation mathods are left open.
`Q
`Okay. why were they ieft open?
`A
`I would say that there are a variety of
`methods within the context mentioned that could be used
`so that it was not pertinent to the invention itself.
`0
`50 once --
`A
`But that‘s. you know, that‘s -- I don‘t really
`specifically recall.
`Q
`So, and you were referring a second ago to the
`allocation of storage.
`I'm not sure if t used the
`right word. but you were referring to drawing 3 on the
`last page of Eshihit 24, correct?
`A
`well.
`I was referring in mm to the
`demonstration through the downbeat that the storage, as
`described in Figure 3. is configured and modified as a
`contrast of Figures 1 and 2.
`a
`okay.
`‘rou mentioned ”configured." and by
`configured with reference to Figure 3 in Exhibit 24.
`you mean the drawing or the depiction of the storage
`device on the right—hand side that shows global data,
`and it shows a storage device on the right-hand side
`that has partitioning for workstation 1, workstation 2.
`
`wflflan-wup
`---HHHHHHHHHHthNHQ-umummani—ID
`UFNU‘UI-FWNF
`NNNMMND-IHI-n-IHHHHHHmfl-thOIflH‘JMW-fiflNl—DG
`
`Again. I don't specifically recallr but I do
`A
`recall that there was generally a draft review cycle
`and submitting changes and cumum‘cations with
`Mr. Peterhan on changes to it.
`Q
`no you recall when that review tool: place?
`No.
`
`A
`
`Did you in any way document that review?
`It's possible that. you know, that it might
`have been noted in my notes.
`1 don't specifically
`
`I'EClii documenting it.
`Q
`clay. Did you keep the draft?
`A
`I don’t recall.
`a
`If you had kept it. where would you hive kept
`
`it?
`
`It would he in the files that were submitted
`A
`for the --
`Q
`okay.
`A
`It would have been in my files.
`Q
`So if you kept that draft. your lawyers would
`have given it to us?
`A
`1 fully elpect they would have.
`Let's take a look at Exhibit 24.
`:1
`A11 right.
`This is 24?
`A
`(Nods head.)
`On the second
`1:
`Let's go back to Exhibit 24.
`page of that exhibit -- there's only three pages.
`correct?
`Including cover, that's correct.
`A
`the last paragraph in the section called
`:1
`'Abstract' there's a sentence that says -- it's the
`second sentence -- that says. "Access controls and
`routing are implenented such that each workstation has
`access to a specific subset of the data store, which
`has the appearance and characteristics of local
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`Givens COURI.‘ chonung
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`'Cahcn August: 5. ZOOl
`
`Doric 23
`method for modification of the storage allocated?
`A
`Again. 1 would say that that's implicit in the
`storage I‘DUIEI'.
`Q
`okay.
`A
`Ves.
`
`shown in Figure 3. right?
`
`okay.
`it
`And how -- what in Figure 3 shows
`modification of the allocated storage?
`A
`The statement that methods are provided that
`allow for configuration and modification of the Storage
`allocated to each workstation attachw.
`0
`Okay.
`and in your mind that‘s all that‘s
`necessary to show the ability to modify?
`A
`Yeah.
`Nothing more?
`a
`okay.
`Nothing more.
`A
`In the context. absolutely.
`a
`NW. in Figure 3 there are shown five
`_ workstations . correct?
`A
`Yes.
`
`And there are shown three storage devices,
`
`Q
`correct?
`whether those are three storage devices or
`A
`what could be subject to question. but I'll allow that.
`o
`well. they're storage devices. correct?
`A.
`there are three storage element: shown.
`whether
`is subdivided into four storage elements.
`
`one
`
`Reading the text. it's provided in the storage
`
`In: WITNESS: The purpose of the drawing
`
`Dagr 21
`bottom storage device is dedicated to workstation 5.
`That's what you mean by "configured." right?
`A
`I was generically alluding to the fact that
`multiple configurations of data or multiple
`configurations are demonstrated in that drawing.
`a
`okay. And that's nhat you meant by
`"configuration'?
`I wouldn't nail
`A
`No.
`that's too generic.
`it down that much.
`I'm just globally commuting that
`in order to have a demonstrated configuration you’d
`have to have —— it follows that there is a
`configuration method. 1hat's the only comment I was
`really making.
`So back to the sentence that has on
`Q
`Okay.
`the second nage of Exhibit 24. it says. "Methods
`are provided that allow for configuration and
`modification." One such method for configuration. at
`least.
`is illustrated in Figure 3. right?
`A
`One such method -- I'm sorry.
`I didn't follow
`your question there.
`:1
`Let me back up and ask the fundamental
`the
`question again. This sentence on the second page.
`last sentence of the third paragraph on the second page
`of Exhibit 2! says. “methods are provided that allow
`for configuration and modification of the storage
`
`Dog: 22
`
`okay?
`
`allocated to each workstation Attached."
`A
`okay.
`(1
`My question to you is. first part. uhere is
`the IleLhud in this document that is provided that
`allows for a configuration of that storage?
`A
`I would suggest that the method is defined in
`the storage router as drawn. but that's an open
`question.
`lt's -- it's implicit in the drawing and in
`the text that
`there is such a method.
`The specific
`method. whether that's. you know. some given
`implementation. isn‘t described here that I can see.
`0
`why isn't it described?
`A
`I don't specifically recall any reason to
`describe it or to not describe it when I produced the
`document.
`Is the method of configuration
`okay.
`:1
`important to your invention?
`A
`You knon. that's kind of a question that gets
`into -- clearly. at
`the time I probably didn't think
`that it was. and I would probably hold that opinion;
`but that requires a level of analysis and thought that
`I'm really not. prepared to give right now.
`it
`1his sentence also says. “Methods are provided
`that allow for modification of the storage allocation."
`where in this document is there disclosure of the
`
`ouwmuanr—i
`”NMNNNPHHHHHHHHHthNHGWW‘HmMéwND-‘O
`moo-umma-Luuu
`NeumuumHH—ui-quunuMwaHOmOOHOIm-thI-O
`
`wwumwauwi-I
`MNNMNNHHHHHHHHHHuhuupoum‘dmmawuuc
`DNHO‘VI-II-WNH
`NNNNNNHHHHHI—lI-lHmwaHaaEHm-Abwui—IO
`
`
`
`
`
`those are individual devices --
`(1
`Okay.
`A
`-- is a matter of the perspective. and that's.
`you know.
`that kind of relates. 1 think,
`in part to the
`characteristics of the invention as to what perspective
`they're being looked at, but --
`Q
`All right. where's the method for modifying
`that storage in that View?
`A
`It's --
`Q
`Modifying the storage allocation in that
`figure.
`A
`router-
`I!
`router?
`A
`provided.
`okay.
`it
`well.
`the only thing that's connected
`that can modify in this figure are the workstations.
`correct?
`
`Okay. Modification is provided in the storage
`
`The capability to modify and configure is
`
`MR. ALBRIGHT:
`
`could you read that back.
`
`please?
`
`[The referenced portion was read back by
`the court reporter.)
`
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`taken August 6. 200i
`
`Q A
`
`clay .
`And I’ll confused. if I may interject.
`Sure.
`Q
`My understanding. again referring back to
`A
`number 5 here. was that these were tnrparatt
`nerspective of date of invention. vn. you’re
`questioning me on elements of invention. This is all
`prior material
`that we've covered in other depositions.
`so I'm concerned that we‘re repealing
`ground as we" as. you know. going off on tangents that
`we've already been through, and I ruiiy don‘t feel
`rea'i mfnrtlbie nil): that.
`q
`He'll. Hr. Huese. than you were deposed before
`we didn't have this Exhibit 24. and every question I've
`asked you has been about Exhibit 24. A“ right?
`THE wr'msss:
`Is that correct?
`NR. ALRRIGHT: Every nuestion he's asked
`you I think has been about that men-vent.
`q
`(By Mr. aahler) Nail.
`take a look at
`Exhibit 23 --
`
`In if
`I'm sorry.
`Hit. ALBRIGHT:
`there's something you feel like you need to add to make
`your answers complete that goes nuts‘ide of that.
`then
`you certainly need to add that in.
`q
`(By Mr. aahler) A" right?
`
`Tic-n? 2”
`
`okay.
`How. referring to Exhibit 23. which is a (any
`Q
`of your patient. Figure 3. just to lay the predicate
`again.
`that is a block diagral of one embodiment of
`your invention. correct?
`A
`Curran.
`q
`and shown in that figuu are workstations,
`right?
`h
`
`(DFICEI.
`
`n
`A
`
`And shown are storage dwicus. correct?
`correct.
`
`Mr! also storage routers are shown there,
`
`I:
`right?
`Correct.
`A
`three of those things are also shown
`and all
`q
`in figure 3 of Exhibit 2%. right?
`A
`Correct.
`:1
`okay. Also shown in Figure 3 of Exhibit 23.
`which is ”Dr fllwl. is something tailed a "managemnt
`station." no you see that?
`A
`Correct.
`Q
`Now. that's not shown in Figure 3 of
`Exhibit 24. is it?
`A
`That's correct.
`I;
`
`Dag-25
`isn't to address the modification and configuration.
`The purpose of flu drawing, 1 think, is to shoe the
`connectivity from that perspective.
`So we're showing
`thc workstations are culmucttd that's described in the
`«union.
`ls modification of the
`(By Mr. Hauler)
`q
`al'located storage.
`is that important for your
`invention?
`Yes.
`A
`1he ability to do 5a.
`I:
`And how would that be done with reference to
`Figure 3?
`A
`It's -- 1 don't lmou that the Figure 3 shows
`nr describes how that
`is done.
`Q
`okay.
`Is there any disclosure of how that
`would he done within this Exhibit 24?
`A
`I don't know of one. but it could be done over
`the interconnect: shown.
`It could be done through
`another interconnect.
`q
`It could he done over the interconneccs shown
`to the workstations. correct?
`A
`Hypotheticaily possible. Yeah.
`Q
`So as conceived. your invention contemplated
`that modification of the storage allocated could be by
`the individual workstations. right?
`mi. ALSMGHT.‘ objection.
`
`page :6
`
`nischaracur‘izes his testimony.
`THE WITNESS?
`Your question -— can you
`read that back. to me. please?
`{The referenced portion was read hack by
`the court reporter.)
`res. AS conceived. that's
`114E HIYNISS:
`[me at the wthods that could be used for
`configuration.
`and in fact. referring [a
`a
`(By Hr. Bahler)
`Figure 3. it's the aniy method shown. correct?
`A
`I don‘t think that's a fair chancterization,
`as the tut refers to mltiple nethods. Other
`documents probably refer to other methods of
`communicating with the storage router.
`so in the
`content of a“ the -- uf a storage router and the
`definitions that are around that, I would agree with
`that.
`A“ right.
`Q
`let's take a incl: at Exhibit 23.
`Mill
`which is a copy nf your patent,
`the 972 patent.
`Figure 1. which is -- actually.
`this is Figure 3 on the
`very face.
`that's a drawing of your invention,
`correct, conceptual drawing. block diagram of your
`inventibn. right. Figure 3'!
`A
`That is one such blot): diagram. That's
`correct.
`
`W3flGWhu~F
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`uwwnNNr—HHHHI-F‘D—‘HmbuNHOahHVIM+ah)Fa
`mn-ammwap-I-
`N‘NNN'UHD‘HHHHHHHHHmbHMHBUuK!3WfiWNHO
`
`mien did you conceive of ti“ manage-ens
`
`mummy-hunts.-
`MNMNNMuuHHI—H“H...mhumfiammwmmfiub-IHD
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`
`
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`Calvert August: 6. 2001
`
`"my 3|
`
`station?
`'97.
`I would say it was March 22nd.
`A
`Okay.
`(1
`where is that? Show me specifically
`where in Exhibit 24 there's a conception of the
`management station.
`A
`Again, it's implicit with the storage router
`concept.
`so once you have a drawing like Figure
`okay.
`:1
`3 which shows workstations and storage devices in a
`storage router,
`implicit in that disclosure is an
`independent management workstation, correct?
`A
`I would say that My contemporaneous documents
`that refer to a storage router and the concept of a
`storage router at that point did allow for and provide
`interconnects for an external management station. Yes.
`Q
`What contemporaneous documents?
`rrooably
`it
`"there's the Vtrrazano specification.
`other docunents.
`I don‘t specifically recall all of
`them.
`Okay.
`Q
`that point
`Schematics were present at
`A.
`showed interconnects to the” devices.
`Q
`Do any of [hose other document: tall: about
`modifying access control through that. lineage-lent
`station?
`
`that
`
`Dog: 30
`I would not believe that any did prior to this
`
`A
`document.
`okay. And this document itself doesn‘t show
`11
`that either. right?
`A
`Doesn't, show what either?
`Q
`using an independent manage-lent station to
`modify access control.
`a
`JMpliCit
`in the definition of a storage
`router. that connectivity is implicit along with the
`statement that methods are provided.
`The statement
`in Exhibit 2‘ that
`0
`okay-
`methods are provided.
`is that a statement that that
`portion of your invention is in software rather than in
`hardware?
`A
`I wouldn't characterize it that way.
`Q
`Okay.
`So would using software have been a
`natural choice in your mind?
`A
`It is neither exclusively a hardware or a
`software characteristic.
`software is an element, could
`very well be considered a necessary element. and
`hardware could very well he considered a necessary
`element.
`there's no disclosure in this document,
`Now.
`0
`Exhibit 24. of any use of any sort of tables to keep
`track of access control.
`is there?
`
`memMJ-wluI-I
`NNMNMNHHD—Il—lhdl—IO—‘nl—IHmiwHHDmmwa»ma-uuc
`UHNMM—fl-UMM
`NNNNNNHMhMHHHHHj—Imemuwoumqmv‘J-WMHD
`
`Do you know how many other things you were
`
`1. don't recall that there is.
`okay. would tables have been an obvious way
`
`q
`to do it?
`A
`I don't know that I‘d use the Word "obvious."
`“they may have been -— 1 can conjecture they give it the
`context of the state of the projects ongoing at that
`point in tine.
`the stated definitions.
`that may have
`been a natural way to implement things or to design
`things. but I don't specifically recall.
`(1
`Hull. where in this document, Exhibit 24. does
`it say that access controls are implemented in the
`storage motor? Oh. never mind.
`I’ve gal it.
`I
`withdraw that.
`
`aFter you created this document.
`Okay.
`Exhibit 24. HT- ”use. did you create any other
`'97 that
`documents subsequent to this date of May 28th.
`further and more completely described access con'trn'l'.‘|
`a.
`I don‘t know.
`I would say yes. that I created
`documents that described specific elements of access
`control or specific characteristics of certain types of
`access control: but access control. as described in the
`concept
`in the patent. 1 don't know that
`I can globally
`say that. ansuer that question.
`(1
`You just mentioned that you do recall creating
`some documents about access control.
`
`Patent filing. for example.
`when?
`I don't specifically recall.
`okay.
`The patent applicnion is one, right?
`I would say. yeah. that's fine.
`what other documents were there?
`I really don't specifically recall.
`okay. when did you create those other
`:1
`docurlents?
`the document —- 1
`A
`Again. 1 don't recall what
`know that I did work on things that talked about
`different elements and different types of access
`control .
`whether they svecif‘ically referred to the
`types that might be out of the patent. t can't really
`answer. and I just don‘t recall.
`a
`Okay.
`Now. between this date, May 25th '97,
`and the date that the patent application was filed.
`which was December 315k;
`'97.. was the patent
`application the only thing that you were working on?
`A
`No.
`
`Hhac else were you working on?
`Q
`Oh. many. many things.
`1 really don't recall
`A
`I do recall
`my projects that wore ongoing at the tine.
`that I was very. very busy.
`Q
`
`lgnuon\fl0a:la—
`MMMHNMHHHHHHHnI-fi-Hmhu»OHHauawB1\nasoHa
`WH‘JGI-léurup
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`
`
`~u--h-Hr-Il-IHup“
`
`CWCD'B Court]: chonnng
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`
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`Dngc3b
`Do
`There are a very large number of pages.
`A
`yuu nah! he to look through then all and answer that?
`Q
`Hell. 1 guess the point is. I don't think
`there are any gaps in those Bates numbers, which means
`that that is exactly how these documents came from your
`records uithin Crossroads-
`A
`oh, that’s entirely possible.
`0
`So I guess the -- so. all right, the
`fundamenta1 question is, can you tell me what is the
`year of these notes?
`A
`It appears in me that a large number of these
`notes are of loose-leaf paper out of legAl odds that.
`you know. may have been disconnected. They may have
`been in connective pads.
`They may have been out into
`files sorted by maybe topic or not sorted at all rather
`than sorted by date.
`Sn I'm not getting any .. that's
`not helping me in determining the date.
`some of the documents do have more
`accurate -- more CDMplete dates on them.
`Sane of the
`pages do. but again,
`I‘m not seeing a consistency.
`Q
`with years?
`A
`Yeah. There's some stuff back here with
`years.
`a
`A
`
`I'VI seen '95.
`
`I'd have to
`
`what year?
`I've seen '97.
`
`Due 36
`look through and find things. Here's a IIIISJBG page.
`This comes after material relating to EGIO stuff that
`I'm fairly confident was significantly after that.
`q
`So some of that was before Decanter 315t
`at least some of it, right?
`A
`1'm sorry. what was the dat